I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. As the year winds to an end, kids with autism and developmental delay face an uncertain future. Back in August, the government revealed plans to kick them off the NDIS, announcing a new scheme called Thriving Kids, set to kick off next year. The Health Minister Mark Butler said it would give kids better support and go some way to curbing
the billions being spent on the NDAs. But months on the government still hasn't reached to deal with the states on how the scheme will be funded, despite threatening to withhold their hospital funding until they agree. Today journalist Rick Morton on the fight over the future of Thriving Kids and what the government is really doing to the NDAs. It's Wednesday, November twelfth. So Rick, on Friday, state and territory disability ministers, they met with the federal NDAs minister,
Jenny McAllister. But before that meeting even happened, things seemed to be going off the rails. State ministers were threatening to boycott the meeting. So tell me what was going on.
Yeah, that was fascinating because the tension was so high before this meeting. Ever, even got off the ground, the states were extremely frustrated, and I think quite rightly that they had been given just two minutes each on the agenda to speak about the future of the NDAs foundational
supports in particular, they wanted at least ten minutes. And this stuff is like some of the most complicated state on federal government interaction we have in the NDAAs, and it's been going on for ten years, and they were reduced to two minutes.
After announcing a new program to divert children with autism from the National Disability Insurance Scheme, the NDIS, Minister Mark Butler has today shocked state governments with a demand that they match the federal government's two billion dollars of funding for the program. Mister Butler wants the Thriving Kids Scheme to be rolled out across the country from twenty twenty seven to help cut the growth and expense of the NDIS.
And so they kind of had a show down and said we're not going to do it. So this is an insult. And in the end the Satan territory ministers did get more time, but it kind of set the tone for what was to come, because this is not really a consultation. It never has been from the start. It is, as far as I can tell, unprecedented, and.
It doesn't bode well for the meeting itself. So tell me what happened when it did go ahead.
Yeah, well, we know the answer basically not well. The state and the federal government, to give some context, they're attempting to come to an agreement on what is called thriving kids.
We should have an alternative system in place for those parents and for those kids, and that's what I committed to building today, a system to support those children to thrive.
I think it's this new program that the Comwealth government has itself committed to and wants the state and territory governments to commit to, which is about essentially curbing growth in the NDAs blay, pushing more responsibilities back onto the states, particularly when it comes to children with what the Health Minister mrket but the CALLD mild and moderate autism, which isn't a real diagnostic criteria, and also kids with developmental delay.
Exception, and that is kids with developmental delay and autism, particularly at mild to moderate levels, so not levels.
And so they're worried about the cost of the NDAs, and they want this kind of new service system outside of the NDAs for much more low level, less intensive support. But of course that means the states kid getting more money in addition to the contributions they already make to the NDAs, which are all in national agreements, right, and so we never get to see exactly what happens inside
these things. Where there was one state source was reported in the media is saying that it was a complete disaster. I'm not surprised.
This is what a source from one of the state governments said to me yesterday, quote, the meeting was a complete disaster. Despite pushing for a robust discussion, we are no clearer on what foundational supports are or thriving kids are.
The Queensland Premier David Krypsofouley said that the federal government was playing a cruel game, and I've heard similar things from my contacts in the various state and territory governments when I've been reported on this in the past, where they've been railroaded into this position, not given any detail or even the proper financial metrics on which this decision
has been based. Because the NBAS doesn't want to share or the agency I should say that runs the National Disability Insurance Scheme doesn't want to give away exactly what its plans are, either to the States or particularly to parents of children who are on the NDIS because they
think it will scare people, probably for a reason. And so we have had this mess of a situation which is cloaked in secrecy, including at the official technically the official decision making body of the meeting of disability ministers across the country.
And so when someone like David Christoph fully or you know, another state leader calls this a cruel game, are they referring to this idea there that the federal government is kind of forcing their hand.
Yeah, And I think what they're worried about. And this goes back to the original agreements where the states were allowed by the then labor government to get out of the provision of services in return for them funding their share of the NDIS. And of course the States took that as a green light to vacate the field, and they did that. And so now the states are saying that we've been asked to make this cruel decision where
we haven't given the information. The Commonwealth wants to cut costs in the NDIS, but it wants to shift that
cost back to the States. The funding ask in this case was linked directly by their Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi to money that the States needed for hospitals, and so the hospital agreement was due for renegotiation and the FEDS essentially is sent to the States, you're not going to get whatever you're asking for until you come to an agreement on foundational supports is what they're calling the supports outside of the NBAS. So you either kick in for
both or you don't get the hospital funding. And they didn't get the hospital funding. They got a one year extension which was a rollover of a really bad system that has not been updated for the massive change in
the way we do health in this country. And then of course they were not told about Thriving Kids, and so Mark Butler, the Health Minister, just comes out one day and says, so Comwealth has allocated two billion dollars to a program called Thriving Kids, which is sort of being trialed but not very well and not very transparently
within the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Kicking the money or we're not going to give you a hospital funding, and the States are like, hang on, you're asking us to sign a blank check, because how much are you askingess to pay? What is it going to do? What does this thing look like? They have know any what it
actually if? No one knows what thriving kids is. And I think the ultimate problem here is that they're being asked to make decisions inside a black box, and we're being asked to interpret that, including the families who rely on support wherever it's provided for their children.
Yeah, so it's clear it seems that the federal government is going into these negotiations in a pretty heavy way. They're trying to get the states to agree to this program that they haven't really been given any say on, they don't know anything about. And then on top of that, there's this kind of idea that their hospital fund big is tied into this whole thing. So, given that, how did those negotiations go? Has anything actually been agreed on when it comes to thriving Kids at this point?
No, there is no final agreement. You know, they say, of course they'll keep working on it, but there's nothing for them to agree on yet. And I think the real interesting thing here is that this isn't even the disability the disility Minister's meaning is not the forum where this is going to get agreed because it was taken and explicitly tied to health. Where Mark Butler is the Minister for Health and Disability in Australia, He's the senior
cabinet minister, not Jenny McAllister. As good as she is, she's holding this meeting with ministers. She doesn't have the authority to make the decision and they don't have the information to agree on it.
We are hopeful of reaching agreement with the States and territories by the end of the year.
It's a complex agreement.
Of course, what are you going to do?
Well, our intention is to come to an agreement you just mentioned and so is it any wonder that she kind of comes out afterwards and says that she's aiming for an agreement by the end of this year, but wouldn't actually say on whether that is going to happen and what the consequences will be at the states don't.
Sign coming up? Why children are already being kicked off the ndis can we come back to thriving kids? Because as you've said, there doesn't seem to be much information at all about the program and how it would work. But it was a while ago that it was announced. It was August, and it is supposed to be up and running, as you've said.
Next year.
So I mean, what is likely to sort of happen when it's supposed to kick in.
Yeah, I mean Thriving Kids. It's funny because we know what Thriving Kids is because it's an existing program, right. It's essentially a referral service with a light touch parental education element. They kind of want to teach families how to be with their own children who have developmental delays or have some social or behavioral impairments that are not severe. And the way they do that is by linking to community services, whether it's through hospitals or health settings, community health,
et cetera. And it kind of sounds fine on the surface, but is this a program that can be rolled out nationally? Is it a program that works for the types of children that they envisage to move off the nbas? So how are they going to look at people who have been long been eligible for the nbas who need support? How do they decide to remove them from the scheme? And that is what Mark Butler said will happen from July twenty twenty seven. That will change the eligibility.
Access and eligibility changes will be made to do that once the Thriving Kids program is fully rolled out.
And send them to what. I don't personally think a light touch program like Thriving Kids is going to be appropriate for all of the people that they envisage removing from the scheme. And the only way they save the money they need to save is by removing a lot
of those children from the scheme. And so we're about seven months away from the start of the program officially, it's meant to start in July next year, with the ability changes a year later, and there is so much that needs to be worked out before we getting everything into place. And bearing in mind that we were meant to have foundational supports in place the first of July this year and they were not ready.
And record sounds like from what you've been saying that there's little doubt that as this particular process unfolds, there is going to be children who need help, who are going to fall through the cracks.
I mean, I personally think we're already seen it. The Health Minister, Mark Butler said there will be no children removed from the scheme before Thriving Kids comes into place, except and this was his statement, except as part of the usual assessment and reassessment process, which has been ongoing
and has always been ongoing. But what we've seen in the last year is that the government has essentially tripled the budget for the Eligibility and Access Team within the National Disability Insurance Agency, and they've also tried to mess around with their guidelines and internal policies around how those
eligibility reassessments are done. And we've seen reports from people who are on the front line of children just being removed, people without autism just being kicked off, people with long term, permanent, in some cases terminal diagnoses things like modern neurone disease and multiple sclerosis being removed with very little indication as to why.
And why is it rick What do you think is really behind the government's changes to who is eligible for the NDAs?
So essentially what they're saying is, well, we think participants are brought in the scheme, what they really want to be saying, or I think the truthful answer is that we are designed the scheme with far too much choice and control, which is what the original promise was. It will sold us a silver bullet, right, Everyone gets choice and control. Everyone can spend the money how they want in a way that helps them live in the community.
And that's what the legislation from twenty thirteen aloud. And the government has changed its mind, and they're allowed to change their mind. They're at the government, but they're definitely not being honest about it. And I think that is the thing that drives me and particularly the advocates and people who use the system absolutely spared. You know, fraud and wrouting is a problem in every government program. It's a big problem in the Indias, it's a big problem
in age care. It's often at the level of the provider. And we've seen all these examples over and over again of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, quality and Safeguard's Commission failing to do its job properly, failing to regulate the sector. Whenever it tries to crack down on that, or say that they're cracking down on that, what they end up doing is removing the ability of people who have disabilities who use the scheme to use the scheme as they're
initially promised. And I genuinely think that's quite appalling.
Well, Rick, thank you so much for your time.
Thanks for it, It's always a pleasure.
Also in the news, only one in five millennials voted for the Coalition at the last federal election, a new study has revealed. The research, known as the Australian Election Study, is an authoritative study conducted by the A and U after every election since nineteen eighty seven. Results show that
young voters viewed climate change as a serious threat. Despite that, the Coalition looks set to scrap their support for that zero this week and the trial of Alan Jones will begin next August and could last up to four months, with one hundred witnesses expected to appear. A magistrate has announced the disgraced former broadcaster faces twenty five indecent assault charges and two sexual touching charges against nine complainants. The assaults are alleged to have taken place at the Opera House,
a restaurant of his various homes and formal workplaces. Alan Jones denies all the allegations. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.