I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM. The forllout from this year's Adelaide Writers Week, Debarkle has reignited fears debate about political interference in the arts and about who gets to speak in Australia's cultural spaces. After the invitation to Palestinian Australian author Randa Abdulphattau was withdrawn, one hundred and eighty writers pulled out in protest. The festival
was eventually canceled. An Adelaide Festival has since apologized for excluding the author from Writers Week, admitting it had failed to uphold artistic freedom. The whole saga raises urgent questions about how decisions are being made by governments, by boards and by those in charge of our institutions. Today, we're bringing you a story from last year that exposed one
of the initial fault lines in cultural administration. It's about artist Khalib Subsabi, who was dropped from representing Australia at the Venice Biernali after political pressure. Then, as the backlash intense, Subsabi was reinstated. It's an episode that feels more relevant than ever. It features chief political correspondent for the Saturday Paper, Karen Barlow speaking with Ruby Jones. It's Sunday, January eighteenth. This episode originally aired February last year.
So Karen, let's begin in the Senate two weeks ago. Now, there was this very interesting hearing that really set this story in motion, So tell me about it.
Yeah.
So this has been a massive controversy for the arts, but it all goes back to this really intense moment in Senate question time on the last we believe to be the last question time before the election. We have the Tasmanian Conservative Liberal Senator Claire Chandler.
Minister Senator Chandler, thank you President.
She's someone who's was previously known for campaigning against trans people in women's sport. She's got this arts portfolio, something that she got in the very recent opposition reshuffle, and she's aiming for a hit and she gets it.
My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The Australian government funded organization Creative Australia has announced that Khaled Sabsabi will be Australia's artistic representative to the Venice Bienali. Mister Subsabi features the dead Hezbala terrorist
leader Nazra La in his artworks. With such appalling anti semitism in our country, why is the Aarbenese government allowing a person who highlights a terrorist leader in his artwork to represent Australia on the international stage at the Venice Bierali.
Excellent, Thank you, Senator Chamber Minister Wong.
So where Senator Chandler got this information was a column was published the day before in the Australian. This appointment had been highlighted, in particular the past work of Coaled Subsabi and Penny Wong is blind sided by this question.
Border Border, Senator, I wasn't aware of this until you asked me.
I certainly will get advice and I share your concerns about Habela and Karen. The Venice Binali, that's an important event. Last year Australia actually won the Goldline Award at the BNALI. So being chosen for that role as Australia's representative is a big moment for any artist. But tell me, tell me about Colored Subsabi.
My name is Colored Subsabi. My practice is made up for many things, and that's progressed over.
He is renowned as being the first person of Islamic faith to win the Blake Prize for Religious Art, and that was a very big deal at the time. He was born in Lebanon. He came to Australia escaping the Civil War in nineteen seventy eight. He is someone who looks into themes around Arab culture, dislocation and migration in his work.
A lot of people almost miss the point of my artwork or the essence of what I'm saying in my artwork because my work's been called extremist in the past and all sorts of things. Yeah, my artwork essentially is about humanity and commonality.
So there's two works that have caused the greatest controversy. The work You is a video installation showing the now assassinated Hesbelalida with light shining through his face and hands. This is in the collection of the Museum of Contemporary Art in Sydney. And then there is the two thousand and six work thank You very Much, which shows see the awful impact images from on nine to eleven and it shows the then President George W. Bush right at
the end saying the phrase thank you very much. And it turns out that the piece Thank you very Much is the piece that has most concerned the Arts Minister, and it was the work that the head of Creative Australia, Adrian Collette, was unaware of until it was brought up by Claire Chainler in senate question time.
Okay, so the controversy begins and it's around his previous work, not his current work. News Corp runs an article about it. Chandler gets up at question time and starts asking these questions. What happens next?
The wheels moved very quickly. We have a question that.
Is asked at around two thirty five in the afternoon, immediately after question time, the Public Affairs area of Creative Australia immediately contacting Adrian Collette. This is somehow also being transmitted to the Arts Minister Tony Burke in the house. Within an hour, Tony Burke, as soon as he gets out of question time, is calling Adrian Collette to find out essentially what the hell to find out about these
artworks that he was not made aware of previously. In that phone call, Adrian Collette informs the Arts Minister that the board has already decided to meet to immediately discuss the appointment of them for the B and Aali Next thing we know, according to Adrian Collette, about four point thirty in the afternoon, the artist is made aware that
the board is being gathered to discuss this urgently. Six o'clock the board members gather, apart from one Larissa Brent, who is unavailable and is away, and then within an hour it's all over. The decision is made unanimously in a very difficult board meeting. A little bit later, about nine poin thirty, a very short statement goes out to inform the world that the appointment is no more and then opens a greater controversy.
Coming up after the break the phone call between the boss of Creative Australia and the Arts Minister. Karen You've said that the Arts Minister, Tony Burke, as soon as he gets out of Question Time, calls the head of Creative Australia, Adrian Collette. So tell me how much more do we know about that phone call and what was said.
Yeah, so there's a lot of interest in this phone call that happens straight after Question Time. We don't know the full context and information in that conversation. There is much discussion in the art world that perhaps some undue pressure who.
Is put there.
But Tony Burke says in his interview on seven point thirty that when he spoke to Adrian Collette, it was immediately made clear to him that the board had already decided to meet over this that day.
Did you give him any instruction or give him any sense of your view of the decision in that conversation.
I was very clear with him. I made clear to Adrian Collett, who I've known for more than a decade, I said to him, if you just whichever whatever do you decide, I will support you and I will support Creative Australia. I was very clear in.
That the Minister, who has only done a little bit of media post this decision, has insisted that he's at arm's length, and that's what the legislation that sets up Creative Australia insists that there is an arm's length process on decisions between the Minister and body itself.
But there's still question marks.
We know that the Arts Minister is very personally invested in the arts portfolio. He's had that portfolio in the Rudd Gillard years. He's personally insisted to the Prime Minister that you keep this portfolio despite the reshuffle last year. He was brought into Home Affairs to essentially shut down the controversies that were continuing prior to him getting the portfolio. I think you know, when he got arts, much discussion
was well how does that fit? And you know, it's kind of interesting the way that it's turned out that there is this national security bent now to this discussion in the arts, so this will be something that personally stings him. And there is this whole view that in trying to shut down this controversy, it's created a bigger one and that Australia is looking terrible on the international stage.
Can we talk a little more about Creative Australia, because as you say, it sounds like this board meeting was very tense, very difficult, and it's clear that there is a lot of unease within Creative Australia around that decision. Now, so tell me a bit more about the fallout.
So immediately after the board meeting there is a series of resignations. We had a resignation from board member Lindy Lee, who is an artist, a renowned Australian artist, and she expressed how difficult the board meeting was but she was unable to talk further about it due to confidentiality. There are a number of senior positions in Creative Australia who also felt that they had to go. And then we've started to see a number of significant people in the
arts community complain about what has transpired. But it's been noted to me that it's not really something that the bigger institutions have stood up and said anything about. This is something that has been left to large figures such as Lizanne McGregor, who is a former director of the Museum of Contemporary Art in Sydney. She's stood up and discussed how chilling this whole event has been for the
entire arts community. People in the arts community say this will mean that going forward, people will have to look at the backgrounds of everyone at every past piece of work, so people may not put themselves forward, for example, or people will be more careful about what they do and express themselves. And liz An McGregor, she tells me she's getting emails calls from all over the world asking what a Stratia is doing considering its reputation for fostering the.
Arts and what about the artist. What about Karled Subsabi, What has he said about where this has left him.
We've only had a couple of statements from Coloreds and Michael Dagostino. They're united as this artistic team. They are asking for privacy while acknowledging thanks for the support from the artistic and wider community.
For their work.
They are deeply disturbed, both professionally and personally by this decision.
They're deeply shocked going forward.
Also the question about the future of Creative Australia and Collette. He was asked whether he would resign and he said no, he would not. The chair Robert Morgan also was asked whether he would resign and he said no. Asked also about an apology for the artists. Well, this is now in the hands of lawyers and publicly there is no apology from Creative Australia to the artists. Ultimately, it looks like the BN AALI Pavilion will be empty in twenty twenty six.
Karen, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you.
This episode was originally published in February last year. In July, colleagues of Sabi and Michael de Gastino were reinstated as Australia's representatives for the twenty twenty six Venice Biernali. In a statement at the time, the artist said, this decision has renewed our confidence in Creative Australia and in the integrity of its selection process. It offers a sense of resolution and allows us to move forward with optimism and
hope artery period of significant personal and collective hardship. The decision to reinstate the artist was made after an external review. That review found no single failure of process, but rather a series of missteps, assumptions and miss opportunities. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.