This is part two of a two part series. If you haven't yet, go and listen to the spiritual leader of Sydney's PROASIS network. When Asier Spy Chief Mike Burgess delivered his annual Threat Assessment earlier this year, it was widely seen as a recruitment drive.
A well placed, well motivated, and well supported human source can collect information broadly or very precisely. They can ask questions, draw inferences, and prioritize.
He talked about the crucial role of human intelligence in asio's work and seeing the praises of the people who make huge sacrifices in secret to keep Australians safe.
How human sources make significant personal sacrifice to work with ASIO, diverting time and effort they might otherwise spend on families, livelihoods and recreation. Fundamentally, they do this for Australia and their fellow Australians. Their secret work protects Australians safety, security and prosperity, and is done without public fanfare or recognition, even by their closest family and friends.
But while Burgess insistent in informants collecting intelligence for ASIO are valued, ABC investigative reporter Sean Rubinstein Dunlop has revealed a different side to this dangerous work today, the reality of working with ASIO and what can happen when you leave.
Sean.
What have we heard from ASIO spy chief Mike Burgess about the threat of a religiously motivated terror attack in Australia.
Well, last year ASIO increased the terrorism threat level. They brought it up from possible to probable.
We raised the national terrorism threat level in twenty twenty four and I do not anticipate being able to lower it for the foreseeable future.
And that was after a series of attacks and thwarted terrorst plots in Australia. Across the world, intelligence agencies in the West, in the UK and Europe, for example, a warning of the same thing. They're saying that there's a resurgence in the terrorism threat from multiple ideologies, including the far right, but that the most pressing threat is again
the threat of so called Islamist terrorism. At Mike Burgess's annual AZIO Threat Assessment in February, he said that the Islamic State terrorist Group and Al Qaeder were reviving and renewing their capabilities.
Traditional transnational terrorist groups such as Islamic State, Al Qaeder and their affiliates are explorting permissive spaces to revive and renew their capabilities, particularly in Afghanistan and parts of Africa.
And he also said the wars in the Middle East, and of course the war in Gaza is ongoing.
The war in the Middle East has not yet directly inspired terrorism in Australia, but it is prompting protest, exacerbating division, undermining social cohesion and elevating intolerance.
And that was increasing the threat of terrorism.
And one of the key tools that ASIO has is human intelligence. Officers. You've talked about your source who has done this work, So can you tell me about human what you learned about how ASIO uses human intelligence.
Yeah, I mean, it's really an extraordinary story and it's been a pretty incredible ride for me and for our team as well. Marcus is a former ASIO undercover agent who was recruited from the Middle East back in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen by AZIO to infiltrate the radical Islamist community in Sydney. Can you tell us your name and what you did in Australia.
Mike Elias is Marcus. I worked for as an undercover agent for about six years, I was pretending I am an extrememist. I was pretending I was supporter of isl Isis.
He came over here and he he worked as an imam and teacher in radical prayer centers and in covert groups. Marcus contacted me more than a year ago, not long after the first Jihadis terrorist attack in Australia in several years. There was a you might remember early last year, a teenage boy stabbed Bishop mar Mari Emmanuel in Sydney during a live dreamed church service and was charged with terrorism over that what people are praying, you're gonna come and
do this. And I got this email out of the blue from this guy, Marcus, who claimed to be a former as O undercover agent, and said that that attack could have been prevented. It's not always you get an email like that, but speaking with Marcus over several months, I realized that he had credible information that only someone on the inside could know. So we went overseas and
interviewed him. Astonishingly, he decided to put his face on camera, identify himself rather than by his real name, and tell Australians about what he witnessed.
There were several comments encouraging doing something like this towards the bishop. This is how Muja he didn't deal with those who attacked our profit.
This will shut.
Him up, this will cut his tongue off.
He said that he warned as about threats to the bishop starting two years before the attack.
Multiple times. I shot them messages on my phone. I used to send them secretly in shots as well with contacts of people who posted those posts.
And in our investigation we uncovered other apparent intelligence failures in the lead up to that attack in the Sydney suburb of Wakeley. I mean, Marcus took huge risks to do this interview. He was risking jail time, still risk being charged for speaking about Asio's secret work. So it was an extraordinary step that he took, and he took that because he believed the public needed to know and there was huge public interest in him telling his story.
After the break, Asio response, Sean, what has happened to Marcus since he spoke out? Have you kept in touch?
Yeah, Look, we're in touch regularly. He's in hiding in an undisclosed location overseas. He's been there since before our story went to air, and he's basically in limbo trying to work out what his next step is and how he can rebuild his life. He left Australia back in twenty two twenty three after his relationship with Asio deteriorated.
He was charged with some assault offenses, charges that were ultimately withdrawn, but following that he said that Asio lost interest in him and he had to leave Australia and go back home. He since then has said that he feels betrayed. At the same time, since our story went to air, he's been receiving threats that have been published online by extremists. Wissam Hadad has come out and repeatedly
called Marcus an apostate and an enemy of Islam. In the Jihadi community, there's nothing worse than being called that, and words like that have been used to justify attacks on people in the past. Not saying that Dad himself has called for attacks, but he's using this very troubling language and that has Marcus very worried indeed.
So what is ASIO had to say about Marcus's situation?
Well, look, it's very rare that ASIO gives a statement on the record when we do stories about them, but in this case, they took the step of doing that, and they said that they wanted to put on the record that human sources are critical to asio's success and make significant sacrifice to help us protect Australia and Australians,
but they went a lot harder than that too. In response to Marcus's claims that he warned them about threats to Bishop mar Maari Emmanuel, they declined to confirm whether they knew about any threats, but they rejected suggestions that they ignored intelligence about any attack. They said that the insinuation AZIO wouldn't act on intelligence about a terrorist attack is quote as false as it is offensive to officers who work twenty four to seven to keep Australians safe.
Really strong words there. They said they'd carefully reviewed their records and they stood by their decisions and conduct in the matters we were canvassing, including of course, the way Marcus's time ended with ASIO. And they said that some of the claims we'd put to them contained errors of fact, fabrications and misrepresentations, but they wouldn't say what those were, And I should just say that everything we put to air was thoroughly fact checked and verified.
And suan Since the start of the new government in Syria, we've seen a resurgence in ISIS activity there. How do you expect that to reshape our security situation here at home.
I mean, we've seen an increase recently in the number of Islamic State attacks in Syria. They're obviously opposed to the new Syrian government. They believe that there should be one Islamic state ruled by a very regressive interpretation of Sharia law. It's yet to be seen what will happen in Australia, but we know that international situations have flow on effects here. And it's not just in Syria where
we've seen a resurgence in Islamic States activity. For several years now, they've been rebuilding in what they call their provinces in Afghanistan and parts of Africa. They've become a group that's spread across multiple geographic locations, but is still very centrally organized, and authorities are on alert. Across the West, we've seen a sharp increase in the number of attacks and plots, particularly last year in Russia, in Iran, earlier this year in New Orleans, and we know that Australian
authorities are worried about the same thing. Happening here. I mean, through our investigation, we've seen the way this network in Australia has been re energizing itself, the way that Wissum her Dad has been working with terrorist leaders who have recently been released from jail, and he's now got a sister prayer center in Melbourne working hand in hand with him. So it's certainly increasing the tempo of what authorities need
to look at here. And we know as well that it's a few years after a war abroad that you start to see terrorist activity domestic. So we saw that after the Iraq war, we saw it after the war in Afghanistan. And the current fear is around what will people do who are extremely angry about the human rights situation and many many deaths in Gaza, what might they do here under the influence of jihadi preachers poisoning their minds.
Sean, thank you so much for attacking the time to speak.
With this my pleasure.
You can watch Sean Rubinstein Dunlop's Four Corners report entitled The Agent Inside an iView or YouTube and read his reporting on ABC News Online. Also in the news, the government has announced a Japanese company will build new warships for the Royal Australian Navy at a cost of ten
billion dollars. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will build the new warships to replace ones that have been in use since the end of World War II, and Foreign Minister Penny Wong has worn there's a risk that there will be no Palestine left to recognize if a path to a two state solution is not created. The government is under a new pressure to recognize Palestinian statehood after several of Australia's allies indicated that we use the September UN meeting in
New York to do so. When asked about Australia's intention to recognize Palestine, Senator Wong reiterated was a matter of when, not if. Thanks for listening to seven AM. We'll be back tomorrow.