This is the sound of a red Maga hat going up in flames. As Donald Trump tries to hose down criticisms of his mishandling of the Epstein files, some of his most ardent supporters are now turning against him. Naga hats are off America. First hats are on Burn B B.
Burn.
Hi. I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM. For years, Donald Trump fueled the conspiracy theories related to the notorious sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, promising that if he was re elected, he would uncover the truth about the
powerful people connected with him. Now he's saying there is no list, It's a hoax cooked up by the Democrats, and any supporters who believe there's more to see are weak linked Today Tech Empower reporter for The Guardian, Nick Robins early on how the Epstein backlashes opated mega what it means for Trump's group on power. This is part one of a two party interview. It's Monday, July twenty one, Nick, Thanks for joining us. Donald Trump cultivated the Epstein conspiracy
throughout his campaign to decount president. Can you lay out how he talked about it and what it meant to his supporters. Definitely.
It meant a lot to his supporters, and he talked about it quite a bit. It was something that during the campaign he brought up as one of his many campaign promises, that he could bring to light things that the Democrats had suppressed, or that he could expose things that his supporters cared about. When he was asked by Fox News last year, he made references to being able to release the files if he was elected.
Would you do classify the nine to eleven files?
Yeah?
Would you class fight JFK files.
Yeah, which I did.
I did a lot of it. Would you declassify the Epstein files.
Yeah, yeah, I would, Yes, I would. And while he was sort of stoking his own ability to unleash this information, he was playing into this QAnon broader conspiracy movement that Trump was the savior of this and that he could expose all of the wrongdoing that they felt had been perpetrated.
That's the cross of the theory.
Is this belief that you are secretly saving the world from this sitanic cult of pedophiles and cannibals. Does that sound like something you are behind.
Oh I haven't, I haven't heard that. But Uh, is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing? I mean, if if I can help save the world from problems, I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to put myself out there.
And it became really central to a lot of Maga Trump World followers to really care about this conspiracy and really care about the release of the Epstein files.
Can you just lie at what diaphors?
Yeah, the Epstein files sort of mean a lot of different things to different people. At the base, the Epstein files are the federal government's investigative files that pertain to the Epstein prosecution. Epstein was charged and convicted with sex offender crimes, and the federal investigation into how he committed those crimes is a tangible set of files. They exist, they are out there. A lot of them have actually been already released over the years, stuff like his address
book has been made public. However, colloquially, the Epstein files have taken on a bunch of different meanings, and a lot of the things that people talk about when they're talking about the Epstein files, especially among the people who are really hardcore into Epstein conspiracies, is that the Epstein files really mean that there is this client list that exists, this specific list of all of the people who Jeffrey Epstein did business with or was wrapped up in his
world of sex offenses. And so that's for a certain section of people, really what they care about this client list.
Right, So this list is clearly very important to his base. Once Trump gets back into the White House, what does he do.
So very quickly after the inauguration, the Justice Department is commissioned to launch an investigation into the Epstein prosecution, into this idea of the files, with the sort of implicit promise that it's all going to come out. The Epstein files are going to be released. And General Pam Bondi, who becomes a sort of central character in this saga in February, says that it's a client list sitting on her desk right now, ready for her to review.
The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.
Well, that really happen. It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trunk.
And the people get very excited about this, and at some point she even follows it up by releasing what is called Phase one of the Epstein files. A bunch of handpicked conservative influencers are brought to the White House and they walk out of there with these binders full of what is the supposed new release of Epstein files.
In this case, in Epstein's case, it is incredibly disturbing. We have flight logs, we have information names that will come out.
But in a first sign that this is about to go wrong, it's very soon determined that what was released to these influencers is basically already public. It's all this stuff that's already known. There isn't really anything in there that people care about. There's certainly no list, and people begin to wonder what's going on with this investigation, what's happening.
People lose faith in Pambondi a little bit. A bunch of the magabase gets very mad at this, and then in early July, the Justice Department releases an unsigned memo saying that actually the investigation is concluded. There is no client list, and there's no conspiracy, and there's no one
else to prosecute. And this is really what kicks off this current round of outrage, this idea that not only is there nothing more forthcoming, that the Attorney general who just said that there was a list on her desk now says there's nothing to be seen here.
Right, So hew did MAGA respond?
I mean, they did not take it well. Maga world really has this backlash.
I just got the office. I'm gonna go throw up.
Actually, and as only happens every few years when something really really bad happens or something, I mean, I'm physically that's gonna put probably right now.
You have a lot of people who have been making this their bread and butter of content, creation of the narrative that they're promoting about the government and about Trump and about the way that Democrats have covered this up.
But Trump will come in and he'll make it all right.
And these are really prominent voices, These sort of mega influencers who have tremendous reach and tremendous clout, make.
Some noise if you care about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.
You have people like Candice Owns telling her audience that Trump thinks that his followers are stupid.
It seems like you think your base is stupid. That's how I feel. I feel like Trump thinks his base is stupid.
You have Theovon Joe Rogan start to ask questions and make fun of the way that there's been this complete flip flop.
They've got videotape, and then all of a sudden, they don't you know, you have the director of the FBI on the show saying, there's no ta if there was nothing you're looking for is on those tapes.
Like what Tucker Carlson goes off on it and begins espousing other conspiracy theories about you know, Epstein's alleged international connections, and it just begins to be even more opportunities for the average maga bass and Trump supporter to get upset about this, and they're met. They're genuinely upset because this
is something that they genuinely care about. And whether Trump is in a bind because he has touted the existence of something that he can't present now, or whether it's because he has lost an exact bead on this aspect his followers, it does seem like for the time being, this is not something that is going away in the way that he hopes, and it's turning into this situation where he's losing a grip that he's held very closely and very tightly for a long time.
After the break al Mosquet is the fray and capitalizes Nick. When the Trump administration announced I had finished their investigation into the Epstein files, I released a video of Jeffrey Epstein's prison cell on the Nautius Fan Dead. Can you just explain why they did that? And Howard Backfawd.
Yeah, So there's a significance because Jeffrey Epstein is said to have killed himself in his cell, and they wanted to release proof that there was not any sort of outside interference into his incarceration that would have suggested that he was killed or that there was some sort of nefarious organization. They claimed to release the raw file of his cell. Then very quickly it's revealed by Wired that there has been some doctoring of the video that they released, and.
That footage, as people noted, appeared to be missing an entire minute. Well guess it. Get this. According to a new Wired investigation public yesterday published yesterday, that video is actually missing approximately two minutes and fifty three seconds, So the whole thing's not going away.
So that just adds a whole other big implosion to the way that MAGA is reacting, to the way that the administration is talking about and releasing information about the Epstein files.
So that doesn't look good for Trump. Is he handled it?
Not only did Trump begin to say that there was nothing to see here, he actually began to lash out and get angry at supporters who kept bringing it up.
No, I know, it's a hopx. It's started by Democrats. It's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats, and some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net, and so they try and do the Democrats work, and they're wasting that time.
With He issued this very long post on his social media website Truth Social, where he said that Epstein was a hoax perpetrated by the radical left.
Their new scam is what well forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoax, and my past supporters have bought into the BS hook line and sinker. Trump adding, let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work. Don't even think about talking of our incredible and unprecedented success, because I don't want their support anymore.
He essentially was hoping that people would just forget about this. At some point, he called it boring in interviews he said that he couldn't believe people were still talking about it, really bashed the very people who had brought him into the White House and who were some of his most supervent support. And that has continued and he has really vilified the people who keep caring about this.
And Nikki cover elon Musk. Last time we spike, he told us about the friendship breakap between Musk and Trump. So how is Musk capitalizing on this? Yeah?
So this has actually been something that between Musk and Trump started off as what felt like a red line in their breakup. As soon as Musk began to bring up the Epstein files and say that Trump might be involved, it took on this character of, oh, this might not be a little spat that they fix. This might be a more permanent breakup. And since we talked last, Musk has really doubled down on this and he's been tweeting
about this fairly consistently. He's been making fun of why the administration is not releasing these He's been further suggesting that it's because Trump is involved. Their relationship has continued to deteriorate, and this has given Musk a lot of ammunition as he seeks to get back at Trump and as he seeks to promote his own potential third party
that he's announced. So in doing this, Trump has left himself open to these kinds of attacks, while Musk has been able to look at what's going on on x formerly Twitter and say, oh, people are talking about this, people are upset. Every time I tweet about this, it stokes the fire even more, it gets more media coverage, and so this has become a real asset for him in their current feud.
This is part one of a two party interview. In the next installment, we hear how far back Donald Trump's friendship with Jeffrey Epstein goes and find out why despot all the controversies that have played Trump, this could be the one that undoes him. It's called Another Wonderful Secret, the letter Trump denies sending Epstein, and it's in your feed down.
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