You literally drive through a very very dry, desert like environment and then in a very incredibly isolated space, you cross over some hills and there you see this camp and it's tense, it's razor wire, it's security, it's a desert.
Senator David Shuebridge has just returned from a trip to northeast Syria. There, in a desert camp behind raiser wire, with thousands of other people lived twelve Australian women and twenty five Australian children. They are the wives and children of men who went to Syria to join ISIS, with Australia unwilling to help bring them home. They're living in danger and in limbo.
One of the Australian kids actually came to the meeting. She was just a little six year old and she was born in the camps. And what was pretty extraordinary was, I mean she spoke with a very broad Australian accent. I could have been meeting with her in Burwood in Sydney, and she was there and drawing pictures, trying to sort of be a normal little kid, as normal as little
Australian kid as you could be. But of course her entire life has been in a desert detention camp with dusty streets and tents and insecurity, so we got to see some of that was pretty heartbreaking.
The recent arrival of two women and four children who smuggled themselves out of a Syrian camp and found their way back to Australia has sparked fresh debate over the Australian government's obligations to Syria, to Australians worried about a security threat, and to these women and children who are Australian citizens. I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM today Green Senator David Shubridge on the Australian children trapped in Syrian camps and the politics of the so
called ISIS brides. It's Thursday October sixteenth. Senator she Rich, thank you so much for coming on seven a m. Welko into the show.
That's my pleasure. Good to be here.
You just got back from visiting Syria. Tell me why you went.
Well. Obviously, there's very real concern, particularly over the Australian children that are being held in really brutal desert detention camps in northeast Syria, and trying to find some pathways so that these kids can be brought home. I think it's an obligation that all elected representatives would hopefully take seriously. And we had an opportunity to go and work with the administration in Northeast Syria, to go and visit the camps and speak to not just the administration but also
speak to the mums and one of the children. And I think it was for me, you know, it was like one of those critical obligations you have. What higher duty is there really as an elected representative than trying to keep Australian kids safe.
And so these women, what did they say to you were their biggest fears and concern for their future and for their children. Well.
Their concern is that the Australians who pretty much stick together and are trying to look after themselves in this camp, are feeling increasingly at risk inside the camp. There have been some real political changes in Syria. A new regime in Damascus HTS is seen to have had some quite distinct links to what was once known as an al Qaeda. They are in negotiations with the regime in North East Syria to try and come up with a sort of
more federalist, pluralist society. But those negotiations are still on foot, and there are some people in the camps, and there's about two and a half thousand people in the camp that I visit at El Roj. Many of them see the Australians as wanting to go home to Australia, not wanting to be part of some future more Islamic kind of regime in Syria. They see them very much as potentially traders, are not loyal to the cause, and therefore
they're feeling incredibly isolated. They're feeling incredibly vulnerable, and the kids are increasing the at risk. Something as simple as going to school and save the children have some very rudimentary schools available to the kids. Those mums said that their kids are at risk simply going to school because they're identified as Australian, and it's well known the Australians want to come home and reintegrate into society, and they're feeling increase in the at risk.
And on the day that you cross the border into Syria, the Australian government heightened its security advice on traveling there. Do you know why that.
Was, well, I mean, that was a pretty extraordinary series of developments. We'd obviously done the right thing. We'd given DEFAT the Department Foreign Affairs and Trade, plenty of notice of our visit, we'd given them out proposed itinery we'd indicated we're happy to work with them. And while there had been some meetings between my office and DEFACT, the only questions they'd really asked in the entire time is are you going to meet with the Australian citizens? Are
you going to go to the camps? And we'd indicated that it was our intention to, but they otherwise showed close to zero interest in where we are going and what we were doing in north east Syria. But then, remarkably, as you know, we flew from Sydney to Dubai, my office got a whole bunch of messages from DEFAT asking for us to urgently contact them because there have been some radical new evidence and some radical changes to the Smart Travelers' warnings about traveling to Syria, so we should
absolutely not go to Northeast Syria. And they mentioned Northeast Syria as a travel risk expressly in this advice that they just published.
So what did you do? Well?
Then, I said, well, you know, what's the security risk? What is the new evidence? When they said, oh, we can't tell you. You haven't got security credits. And I said, well, I'm a member of Parliament and of course there's long standing protocols about members of Parliament not requiring security clearances. But no, I was told that they couldn't tell me what the evidence was. I said, well, can you tell me if it applies to one of the regions we're going.
I couldn't tell you where it is. I can't tell you what the advice is. It's all secret, secret, secret. We then spoke to people on the ground. They said there was no material change. We notwithstanding the advice from default, we crossed the border. I met with the officials and continued with our visit, and astoundingly, the day after we went in to northeast Syria. The day after, they changed the advice back and reversed it. Yeah, I mean, make of that what you will.
Interesting. So what about the people in the camp, these Australians in the camp you met, what contact have they had with DEFAUCT.
Well, they've had almost nothing since the end of twenty twenty two. And you know, one of the things we were doing was showing how you know, it is absolutely possible to go and talk and engage and do it
through the administration. But what they did say was that in the lead up to about a dozen women and children coming home the end of twenty twenty two from the camp, that they'd had a number of Australian officials in there, they'd had security assessments been done, they'd had the biometrics been done, that had the paperwork being done.
Everything been done that's necessary to issue passports and to provide you know, the necessary security clearances and advice to get everyone home at the end of twenty twenty two. And it's my understanding that process had been ongoing for quite a time before that, and probably included some work with then Morrison government and then the Albanese government. But you know, they'd said everything had been done necessary for those Australian kids to get their passports and their mums
to come with them. And while some kids and their mums came home at the end of twenty twenty two, there's been nothing else like And they've had radio silence from the Australian government since the end of twenty twenty two. And you know, obviously that's years and years now, and it's very disturbing.
Why do you think that is that they haven't been in touch for three years?
Well, I mean you should have seen the politics that happened in the Federal Parliament in the last couple of you know, last month or so about this whole thing. This is all, you know, some pretty ugly politics from the coalition about isis brides, a real lack of courage from the Albanese government to respond and talk about the need to look after Australian kids, and that politics has
been pretty toxic. And you know, it looks to me like we have a government who is so scared of a you know, a right wing attack campaign from the coalition that they're not doing what they should do and keeping Australian kids safe.
Coming up, more women and children are expected to come home. So what will happen when they get here? How many isis brides are currently in Australia.
In September this year, a group of six individuals returned to Australia without repatriation assistance that comprised two women and four children.
Senator It came out in Senate estimates last week that there were two women and four children who had come back from Syria what did you make after that news broke of the way that group has been characterized, both in the media and in Parliament.
Well, what I thought was astounding about all of that was the kids were almost invisible in all of that discussion. Isis brides, Islamic state women and their offspring, all of which were born overseas, have managed to smuggle themselves out of Syria and quietly returned to It was all about isis Bride's isis bride's isis brides? Will the government be honest this time and tell these shown people how many more isis brides will return, when they will arrive and
where they will live. But there were four Australian kids who have finally found a pathway to safety. And instead of doing what I think the nation should have been doing, which was focusing on how to reintegrate those kids safely into society, how to deal with the trauma that they've obviously been through being caught in a brutal desert detention camp for years, and talking about what structures are needed in place to be put in place to keep those
kids safe. We had a really toxic discussion about isis brides. Now, when you go to Syria and you talk to people on the ground. People are horrified by the crimes of Daish and Isis. They're horrified by what happened. I went down to Raka and some of the crimes down there were horrific and they all support, you know, the people
I spoke to support their being processes. So if people have committed crimes, they're held to account, but they also recognize that there are so many thousands and thousands of innocent victims of these crimes, and that they point to the kids as the most obvious examples of innocent victims of the horrors that happened in Syria. So surely Australia can get this right.
These children and women a security threat. What is the evidence from other countries that have repatriated people home from Syria.
Well, our understanding is that AZO did a full assessment at the end of twenty twenty two and said there was no security impediment to bringing any of these women and kids home. But I have a lot of faith in our security agencies that they will be able to identify risk and if there is a risk, come up with ways to mitigate and deal with that risk.
And it does now seem that there will be more women and children at least that the AFP is expecting to come back. The Asistan Commissioners even not. He said that preparations were being made for more arrivals.
So is the AFP making any arrangements for the arrival.
Of any additional members, are you, senator?
Yes?
Yes? So do we know how the government is now acting on this? Do you know anything about those arrangements?
Well, I mean, how do we want this to work? Do we want to have a planned, thought out, security and conscious process for reintegrating these kids and their mums back in society and do it properly and do it in the way that he's going to have the greatest likelihood of ensuring that these kids can be properly settled
and have productive lives here. Or do we want to just keep waiting for haphazard escapes out of these camps, people smuggling themselves across an incredibly dangerous countryside and coming in ad hoc without any of those controls. That's the choice really the Albanezi government has, and you know, I think to their shame, they've said, oh well, they'll just deal with an ad hoc unplanned irregular return to Australia because they don't have the political courage to say, actually,
we're going to do this properly. We're going to look after Australia's security concerns, we're going to look after the kids, we're going to look after their mums, and we're going to have a plan for how to make this work. And you know, this is a classic case of where the toxic politics on immigration and multiculturalism is meaning nobody's a winner at the end of the day. I mean,
this is not a complex moral dilemma. It's a pretty straightforward moral dilemma that's been put through a pretty cooked political lens by both the Coalition and Labor.
Senator David Shibridge. Thank you so much for your time.
Pleasure, Ruby Good speaking.
Also in the news, more Indigenous people are dying in custody in New South Wales than ever before, according to the state coroner. So far this year, twelve Indigenous people died in corrective services custody, while four died in police operations.
New South Wales State Coroner Theresa O'Sullivan pointed to soaring original incarceration rates as a key reason and said each death deserves scrutiny and accountability, and the US State Department has revoked the visas of six foreigners for comments they made about Charlie Kirk on social media. In a statement, the Department said they would continue to identify people who celebrated the right wing activists assassination, and that the US
has no obligation to host foreigners with those views. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.