Last night as well, I spoke with President Herzog of Israel. President Herzog and I have known each other for a long period of time, and it was an opportunity for the President to express his condolences to the victims here, but also to Australia as a nation.
In the wake of the Bondai terror attack, the Prime Minister invited Israeli President Isaac Herzog to Australia, a move framed as an act of solidarity with the Jewish community.
For the President to visit Australia in early twenty twenty six to honor and remember victims of the Bondai anti Semitic terrorist attack and provide support for Jewish Australians and the Australian Jewish community at this time.
But that visit, which begins on Sunday, is now sparking criticism, including from within the government, and now i'm the streets with a series of protests planned across the country. Supporters of the visit say Herzog's presence will bring comfort to greeting families, but critics argue it risks deepening divides, especially as Israel faces genocide allegations at the International Court of
justice with Herzog's own statements cited in evidence. I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven am today Principal lawyer at Maurice Blackburn Josh Bornstein on the visit that's raising tensions and dividing communities and whether those divisions could ever be mended. It's Friday, February sixth Josh, thanks so much for joining us. The Alberdezi government has invited Israeli President Isaac Herdzog. Here is a silent support for Jewish Australians
following the Bondai massacre. There are those that see this visit as an act of solidarity. It's been welcomed by families of the victims, as well as groups like the Australia Israel and Jewish Affairs Council and the Executive Council of Australian Jury.
He's the head of state, he's not a political figure, and his role is predominant to provide comfort and solidarity with the people who were caught up in that horrific tragedy of Bondah Beach.
So why do you oppose it?
I think it's a very bad idea for a number of reasons. Israel is facing the most serious charges that can be instituted under international law of genocide before the
International Court of Justice. Those charges, they rely on a number of statements of Israeli politicians, but also of President Herzog, which on their face can be interpreted as inciting genocide by arguing that the Hamas attack in October twenty twenty three was in fact the responsibility of the entire Palestinian population in Gaza.
Can we talk a little bit more about what Hertzoke has saidled done specifically that is seen as so problematic.
What he said in the aftermath of seven October twenty twenty three was, to quote him, it's an entire nation out there that is responsible.
It's not true, this ractoric about civilians not where we're not aware, not involved, It's absolutely not true. They could have risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in Akudeta.
Now those statements have already been considered by the International Court of Justice when it ordered Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocide. They did that in January twenty twenty four. In September last year, a human Rights Council Commission of Inquiry found that Herzog's statement did constitute incitement of genocide. It's not a binding decision, but nevertheless it's important.
On incitement to genocide. The commission concludes that many Israeli political and military leaders, including President is that Hertzog, Prime Minister Benjamin Nataniao, and then Defense Minister jo Avgarland had incited the commission of genocide and that Israeli authorities have failed to check action against them to punish this incitement.
So not only is Israel facing very serious charges, the most serious charges you can levy against the country, but President Herzog is himself facing very very serious allegations. And to invite him to Australia, albeit in the horrific aftermath of the atrocity in Bondi, is to try and ask the government and everybody in Australia to pretend that the
actions of Israel haven't happened. And you're sending a very confused set of signals by inviting them here at this moment, while at the same time saying to the Australian people, as Prime Minister Albanzi has done repeatedly, we value social cohesion. We respect an international rules order and the international law. This is a complete mess and a very bad mistake by the Albenese government.
Let's go to that, Josh, I mean an overwhelming majority of Jewish Australians feel a strong connection with Israel. So what do you say to that argument that in the wake of the Bondai massacres, politics should be set aside so that the leader can show their respect for the victims and families of the bond Di massacre.
Nothing about this dispute and this conflict can depoliticized. We've seen as soon as the Bondai massacre occurred sordied political maneuvering right throughout the political system. It is already clear that this visit has been politicized. Those organizations that urge the government to invite Herzog here have seized on the acceptance of that invitation and invitation extended to Herzog to argue that Australia should use the opportunity to reset its
relationship with Israel. There's going to be photo opportunities with the Governor General, with the Prime Minister, god knows what else. This is a very bad mistake. The Jewish community is not a monolith in Australia anywhere else. There are many different perspectives on Israel. Within the Jewish community. There are those who are horrified at what has become of Israel. There are those who are anti Zionist, so those a
pro Zionist. At the moment, the voices of the fanatical pro Israel lobby are drowning out the rest and producing very bizarre outcomes which don't help social cohesion, which actually harm it, and which don't help the fight against anti Semitism actually harm it. What's clearly driven the rise in anti Semitism in the last two years are two things. One is the mistreatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli state that has caused an anti Semitic backlash in Australia
and elsewhere. But also the confusion and conflation of Jewish identity with Israel. I'm Jewish, but I don't have any strong connection with Israel. When you confuse those two things, you end up holding all Jewish people responsible. If you want revenge for what's going on in Gaza, as unfortunately some people will ultimately want to pursue. Then if you think that all Australian Jews somehow represent Israel that endangers
all Australian Jews. There are a range of different views within the Jewish community and we should not confuse or deceive people into thinking being Jewish in Australia is the same as being rapidly pro Israel. It's not.
Coming up. How the visit will test the PM's new hate speech laws, Josh. The Albinezer government, as you've alluded to, is facing pressure to rescind this invitation from the Grange, from some independence and even from inside their own party. Withinps like Edie Usick are.
To be completely frank and very uncomfortable with it. I find it hard to reconcile the images I've seen of him signing bombs that were then dropped on Palestinian homes, and the fact that the ICJ has called out some of his statements as indicating collective responsibility of Palestinians.
What do you make of Albaniz's response to the pressure that is mounted over time.
Look, the Prime Minister and the government will emphasize the horror of Bondai, and I agree no one can dispute what happened in Bondai was anything other than a horrific atrocity.
It sickened me.
It sickened me for days. How we grieve about it has already become a divisive political issue because we cannot divorce the appropriate grieving for that horror from the horror that's been inflicted by the Israeli state on the Palestinians and which continues day in day out.
Do you think that the government had with on the invitation that that could have potentially done more to undermine unity and social cohesion.
I actually think that a majority of Australian people are horrified at what has become of Israel and what Israel has done and is doing. There's no doubt any action of the government in this situation where they've invited President Herzog to Australia. Were he to be disinvited, that would be contentious, But I think a majority of Australians might think differently and might.
Support it, Josh. The government has also just passed new hate speech laws aimed at criminalizing incitement, and at the same time is hosting a leader whose statements have been citing in international proceedings as evidence of incitement, allegations that he strongly denies. How do you square those two things.
You can't square them. You can't square them. You can't on the one hand, say we are a government committed to stamping out in sight of racial hatred, incitement of genocide, incitement of violence on the basis of race, and on the other hand, welcome someone into Australia who is accused of that at the very highest levels in the world.
They're just irreconcilable. So Anthony Albaneze is on some very positive things and said some very positive things about the need for social cohesion, the need for stronger laws about inciting racial hatred and violence and so on, the need for respect for international law, the rule of law, for a rules based global order.
If we allow any nation to imagine itself outside the rules more above them, then the sovereignty of every nation is eroded.
Read But by this invitation, he's undermined all of those messages, which then I think undermines people's trust and faith in him and his government. So it's a really bad mistake that I think is not going to play well during this visit and not going to play well after this visit.
Yeah, So if we talk about the visit finally, Josh, I mean it's too late to call the visit off. Now, hurtzock will fly in, the protests will go off around the country. So where does that leave us? How do we begin to heal some of those wounds within the Jewish community and the nation more broadly when it.
Comes to all of this, Look, if people thought there was hope for Palestinian equality, for dignity, then I suspect the rise in anti Semitism or the antisemitic problem we face would diminish, if not disappear. It never completely goes, but it would substantially diminish, And so all of our efforts as a nation should be directed to pressuring Israel to cease its barrant conduct and to moving international policy
towards supporting equality for Palestinians. Secondly, we need to educate the Australian public about the difference between being Jewish and the state of Israel, so that you don't get people thinking that I can retaliate against Israel's mistreatment by punishing Jewish people, either in France or Germany, or Canada or Australia. At some point we're going to need to have civilized discussion.
Even for someone who's Jewish and who criticize the state of israel I receive an extraordinary amount of florid abuse from pro israel fanatics. It's not possible for me to have a dialogue with those people because they're abusive. But at some point we need to be able to foster a culture where we can have differences of opinion and
not have such abuse and vitriol flying around. This is not just a problem in this context, but it's a broader problem on social media in other realms of our life now, where polarization, threats of violence, a retreat from the democratic discourse and norms is underway, and that's a huge challenge, not just for Australia but globally. But at some point we need to try and move towards a better understanding about how to navigate our differences.
Josh, thank you so much for joining seven AM.
Thank you so much.
Also, the Western Australian authorities have confirmed the targeting of an Invasion Day rally in per Center is now being treated as a terrorism event. An explosive device which did not detonate, was allegedly thrown into a crowd of Indigenous people, families and supporters gathering in per CBD on January twenty six, a thirty one year old man was previously charged with making or possessing an explosive and committing an act with
intent to cause harm. The man will now be charged with one count of engaging in a terrorist act, the first time the charge has been laid in the state, and draft legislation has been introduced into Federal Parliament to
permanently establish the National Commissioner for First Nation's Children. The bill formalizes the appointment of sioue An Hunter as the full time National Commissioner for Aboriginal Terrest Trail Under young People, First Nation's children are twenty seven times more likely to be in use detention than non Indigenous children and ten times more likely to be in out of home care. The government will also release as late as Closing the Gap Report next week. You've been listening to seven AM.
We'll be back tomorrow