I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven Am. A letter to Prime Minister Anthony Albernezi has reopened the fight over gambling reform inside the Labor Party. MPs say they
want change but are too scared to speak publicly. It comes as a Four Corners investigation has shown how much online betting is harming Australians and their families, and how the systems meant to protect them are failing the Government says it's acting, pointing to measures like bettstop and ID checks, but a cross party inquiry led by the late Peter Murphy called for much more, including an outright ban on gambling advertising, and two and a half years on, they
haven't acted on any of its recommendations. Today, ABC investigative reporter Steve Knaine on what his Four Corners reporting uncovered and how Labour MPs are being kept quiet. It's Thursday, November thirteenth, so I thought we could begin with this letter to the Prime Minister that you got a hold of. Can you tell me what it's set?
Yeah, it's a letter written by Andrew Wilkie addressed to the Prime Minister, who he knows quite well and he has respect for and he's calling on him to allow a free voting parliament on legislation to ban gambling advertising. And he said in that letter that he believed that an advertising ban had strong community support and that the
policy also had substantial backing in the Parliament. And he said, and I'm quoting as evidenced by the number of our parliamentary colleagues who've approached me since the recent ABC four Corners program on online gambling. And he goes on to say it would be naive for the government to think it can continue to stonewall or drag out addressing the issue, and that a free vote would be an effective way to break the deadlock.
And he's referring there.
To the government's inaction on the parliamentary inquiry that was chaired by the late Labor MP Peter Murphy that handed down its report.
Close to two and a half years ago.
Now on behalf of the Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs, I present the committee's report entitled You Win Some, You Lose More Online gambling and its impacts on those experience in gambling harm.
And it was a.
Cross party report that came up with thirty one unanimous recommendations including bringing in a national regulator and a national ombudsman for online gambling, banning those kind of inducements that are used in VIP schemes that keep those addicted gamblers betting, and also this ban on gambling advertising, which has really dominated the debate in this space.
The Committee has recommended a phased, comprehensive ban on all gambling advertising on all media, broadcast and online of online gambling services. It leaves no room for circumvention.
Partial bands haven't worked, and so Andrew Wilkie wrote this letter for a few reasons. He wants action on gambling reform has for years now. He thinks there's broad support in the Parliament for the matter, and he also believes that Labor backbenches are fearful about speaking out.
There's every chance they know someone with a gambling addiction. It could be their mum or their dad, or their brother or their sister, or their son or their daughter, or their friend or.
Their work colleague.
And they look at us and they hear our debates and they think, how can those politicians be so selfish and so clueless and so weak?
And is that the case is their broad support among Labor MPs and are they afraid of speaking out?
Well, I spoke to over a dozen members of the Labor caucus who want change on this matter. None of them would put their names to what they said for fear of repercussions. They not only want change, they think if it was put to a conscience vote in the Parliament that it would pass.
There's a number of Liberals who want action on this as well.
Peter Dunton wanted action on gambling advertising in the last parliament, and of course the crossbencher all wanting action on this
as well. Now, if you combine the people I spoke to and the Labor MPs who are known to support change but would not return my calls, and then if you look at the condolence motions for the late Labor MP Peter Murphy and what a number of Labor MPs were saying about the gambling industry, it's fair to say that there are dozens of people in the Labor caucus who want change on.
This Okay, So if that is the case, then what do you know about the way that the Prime Minister's office is responding to this kind of broad consensus that there needs to be some change.
Well, the Prime Minister had an opportunity to pick up on these reforms before the last election. It seems pretty clear that the Labor leadership were concerned about the power of the lobby groups in that area. I've also been told by Labor sources that the Prime Minister's office has been putting pressure on advocates for gambling reform within the
Parliamentary Party to prevent them from speaking up. And I certainly spoke to a number of Labor EMPTI he's in the lead up to my Four Corners program, hoping to convince them to come on the program and talk about the matter, but they would not go on camera. I asked the PM's office, whether they're staff or senior members of the government, put pressure on Labor MPs not to speak to Four Corners and also not to speak up more broadly on this issue, but they did not answer that question.
So that's where it sits at the moment.
Okay, So that if that is the case, then that the Prime Minister's office perhaps doesn't want people from the party to be speaking about this. Can we talk about the why why would the Prime minister be reticent to take on the gambling industry?
Well, the gambling industry is incredibly powerful in Australia. But it's not just them who would lose out from this legislation. If the government was to bring in a ban on
gambling advertising, they'd be upsetting three powerful lobby groups. That would be the gambling industry itself, specifically the sports betting industry, also the sporting codes who now make a large cut from gambling revenue from betting on their sport and really i'm talking there about the NRL and the AFL, but also the commercial media, and in particular commercial media that has TV stations that rely on gambling advertising for their revenue.
And of course those commercial TV networks have been under a lot of pressure for their business model to succeed in recent years because there has been less advertising. It's not the golden goose that it used to be, and we have seen that in the print media as well. So it would involve taking on three powerful lobby groups.
But that's why Andrew wilk is saying make it a free vote, make it across the parties, so that the lobby group's power is diminished, that they can't target one party over the other.
I think also there's another thing going on here.
I think the culturally the PM is sympathetic to the sporting codes and the gambling industry. He's a big Souths fan, that is genuine. He has been so since he was a young boy. You see him in the NRL box with Peter's. He took Peter Velandi's to the White House for a dinner with Joe Biden. But there's also a historical thing going on here. The Prime Minister is very pragmatic.
He understands the power of the lobby group. He was around when Julia Gillard was in minority government had a deal with Andrew wilk to bring in mandatory pre commitment on poker machines, and he saw the backlash from the club's industry and labour MPs including him were targeted by the club's industry and in the end that commitment to bring in mandatory commitment was broken. So I think there's a number of things going on here. The power of
the lobby groups, the history of the gambling lobby. It's a different part of the gambling lobby but did target them back in the twenty tens. But also a kind of a cultural affinity between Anthony Albanesi and the sporting codes.
So I think there's a few things going on here.
Coming up. How Anthony Albanesi often shares talking points with the gambling lobby Steve What is the Prime Minister Anthony alb Easy and his office saying about the way that they are approaching gambling reform.
Well, they say they've done more to reduce gambling harm than any government in Australian history, and they point to the fact they brought in betstop and a credit card ban ID verification for online gambling.
Australians will be able to ban themselves from every online betting company with just one simple registration. The National Self Exclusion Register will also stop gambling companies from sending out marketing material with the threat of big fines if they do.
And now, bet Stop is a good thing.
It's not a flawless system, but it's definitely improved people's lives who've had gambling addictions, there's no doubt about that. But I have spoken to people who've still been getting contacted by betting agencies courtesy of that. But it should be remembered that that was a process that was started off under the Liberal government, so it's not entirely down
to the Labor Party that that is the case. I asked the Prime Minister's Office on a couple of occasions, name one recommendation that you've taken up from the Murphy Review, and they never answer that question. They certainly haven't taken up the main recommendations of the Murphy Review, which is a ban on advertising, bringing in a national regulator and a national mbudsman, having a Minister responsible for all of the gambling issues, also banning inducements and banning commissions in
the industry. They certainly haven't tackled them. I've given them an opportunity to tell me of one minor thing that they've taken on from the Murphy Review, but they've never provided that.
And you spoke to people within the industry itself, you know, people like the CEO of Responsible Wagering Australia. Tell me about the case they're making.
Yeah, Responsible Wagering Australia are a lobby group and a peak body group that represents six of the biggest online book makers, and I spoke to Kay Campwell, who is the CEO of Responsible Wagering. I also put requests to a number of the big batting agencies to talk to their CEOs and they wouldn't put anyone forward, but Kay camp Will did go on camera for four corners. Why doesn't the industry support a total band because.
Total bands won't be effective. Total bands will simply drive Australian consumers into the illegal offshore market where there are no consumer protections.
Now, the Murphy Review heard evidence that was contrary to this, and they cited the example of Spain that changed the lord of prohibit gambling advertising between five am and one am, and apparently the Spanish gambling regulator said that the predictions of industry had not borne out.
We've seen evidence internationally, so we've seen evidence in Norway, Denmark, Sweden. There is a swede of evidence across the world that says that overregulation drives people into the illegal offshore market.
We spoke to authorities in those countries and they dispute what he was saying.
We've heard the Prime Minister say the same thing as well though, right yeah.
In an interview with Claudia Long of the ABC, he mentioned that offshore argument.
What's in our mind is practicalities of whether people just go offshore then there's no revenue at all, they engage in gambling with no revenue coming back at all, and it doesn't solve the problem.
He's also used that line the right to punt.
A gambling is legal in Australia. We respect people's right to have a punt, but we also have a responsibility to make sure that the industry acts responsibly and that's what we're doing.
Also in question time in Parliament, when he.
Was asked a question about this last year, he suggested that lotteries and loto were causing more harm than online betting.
More there around about fifteen percent. Off the top of my head, it's about that figure comes from lotteries and lot o and those tickets as well.
No one knows where those figures come from. They don't stack up with the data. David Pocock Senator David Pocock, the Independent Senator for the Act, told me that only two people have said that publicly, the Prime Minister and Peter Valandi's where.
Did these starts come from?
No one knows, No one has any idea and the only two people who've said them publicly are Peter Landis and the Prime Minister.
And that's a real worry.
So there's an argument from the cross benches and people who who are advocates for gambling reform, that the Prime Minister is mimicking the retoric of the lobby groups here.
And what is the scope of what Australia is dealing with, Steve in terms of the harms of gambling and the amount of money that's being lost.
Well, we lose more per head of population than any country in the world. The most recent things we have that we lose thirty two billion dollars a year. That's not how much we gamble, that's how much we lose. And look, the Productivity Commission has looked into this twice. They consider it incredibly unproductive that this money is being spent in this way, not to mention the social harm
it affects families. And in our Four Corners program, you know, we spoke to people who, courtesy of addictions to online sports betting, had family members who'd taken their own lives, people who to end up in jail. I've spoken to people whose businesses have been defrauded, or people who've had financial advisors steal their money because they were in the throes of a gambling addiction that was being encouraged by VIP managers who work for these sports betting industries and
everyone you talk to has a story. Everyone knows somebody who's been exposed to this kind of harm.
And the fact that Peter Murphy's review, you know, it's two and a half years on her thirty one recommends haven't been put in place by the Labor Party. But this is the legacy of someone who was incredibly popular within the party and well known. So the fact that you know there has not been action on this at this point in time, what does it say to you, Steve, about where the Labor Party is at on this issue at the moment.
Well, they really are dragging their feet on the issue. Because it's standard practice that a parliamentary inquiry like this that the Government of the day responds within six months, and it's now two and a half years. It shows you the reticence within the leadership to take on this issue. A lot of people say it's the fear of the gambling lobby, the fear of the commercial media, the fear of the sporting codes. It also shows you the fear
of the backbench. They're not really speaking out about it, despite the fact that there are so many in the Labor caucus who believe in gambling reform. I think it also speaks to another issue, which is it's not an issue that's coming out in polling in focus groups, that perhaps this is not an issue compared to say, the cost of living. If it was something that was being rammed down the politician's throats, and they might take action on it. But bear in mind that this committee was
a cross party committee. They weighed the evidence, they heard from all sides of the argument, They got international evidence and research. So most people who know the area say that it was a very thorough, very rigorous committee process and that Peter Murphy came up with some strong recommendations that would minimize harm from an industry that many people, including many people in the labor Caucus, consider to be full of predatory practices.
Well, Steve, thank you so much for your time.
My pleasure to be.
Also in the news, former CFMU leader John Set has been arrested and charged by Victoria police after allegedly send threatening and harassing emails to a union administrator. The sixty one year old has been charged with seven counts of using a telecom communications device to menace, harass and defend and Australia and Indonesia have agreed on a new security treaty that commits the countries to consult each other if
either is threatened. Prime Minister Anthony Abnezi says the treaty also commits to regular security dialogue between leaders and closer cooperation in defense and security fields. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.