From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am. The leader of Hezbalah has been killed in an Israeli air strike in Beirut. Hassan Israelah led the group for more than thirty years, building it into a powerful political force within Lebanon and the most heavily armed non state militia in the world. Israeli Prime Minister Benjaminettanyahu reportedly ordered the killing from his hotel room in New York before the speak of the United Nations General Assembly. Joe Biden
has called the killing a measure of justice. But Lebanon is entering three days a morning at a time where more than half a million people at this placed there, and air strikes continue today. Middle East correspondent for The Economist Greg Carlstrom on Hassan Israelar's legacy and what his death means for Lebanon and for Israel. It's Monday, September. Greg,
thank you for speaking with this to start. Can you tell me who Hussan Israela was and what his impact was over the more than thirty years that he led Hesblah Right.
He was the leader of the organization since nineteen ninety two and He's someone who in those years turned into a larger than life figure not only in Lebanon but across the Middle East, even though he was very rarely seen in public. He spent most of his time underground in bunkers for fear of being assassinated, but someone who spoke regularly, was known for his charismatic speeches that were
watched not only in Lebanon but across the Arab world. Idea, and someone who in Lebanon, at least within his Shi'ah constituency, associated with the victory of two thousand when Israeli troops withdrew from South Lebanon, which they had been occupying for almost two decades, and then was credited with what many Lebanese saw as a victory in the two thousand and six war against Israel. So he had this mythos attached
to him. Now that started to turn sour over the past ten years, when Hesbilah became a central part of propping up the Assad regime in Syria, many not just Lebanese, but many Arabs began to see it no longer fighting against Israel, which was a popular cause in parts of the Arab world, and instead fighting against other Arabs fighting
against Syria and starving and killing thousands of Syrians. That damaged the reputation of both Masrella personally and Hesibela as an organization, but still someone who was again a larger than life figure across the region.
Here does Hezbela actually fit into the Lebanese society? What role does it play in the everyday existence of people? Will live it on.
It's sometimes described as a state within a state. I think that is a fair way to describe it. It is the strongest military force in Lebanon. It is better equipped than the Lebanese Army. There are parts of the country, particularly in the south near the border between Lebanon and Israel, where has effective security control of the Lebanese Army does not have a meaningful presence in the south or sometimes
on the border between Lebanon and Syria as well. So an incredibly powerful military actor maintains a network of social services across the country, schools, cultural institutions, a growing economic empire. It has its own network of supermarkets, for example, that often sell products imported from Iran, products that are cheaper than products you will find in other supermarkets in Lebanon.
And then it's a political party as well, that has MPs in the parliament, that sometimes has ministers in the cabinet. And Hesbela and its allies at the moment control a majority of the Lebanese Parliament. So not just a militia but also a political party, a charitable organization, and you know, I think it's fair to say the most influential actor in Lebanon.
We know that Hezbola backed by Iran as part of the excess of resistance, but can you tell us what that actually means in practice?
This axis of resistance concept which Nostrela often promoted, the Iranians often promote, is the idea that there is this network of Iranian backed militias across the region that are committed to fighting Israel and fighting America. Includes Hesibala, it includes Hamas and Islamic Jihad in the Palestinian territories, various militias in Iraq, Houthis and Yemen. All of these groups receive varying levels of military and financial support from Iran.
In the case of Hesbellah, it is very very extensive financial and military support. The Iranians have spent tens of billions of dollars over the course of decades to try and build up Hazebla's military capabilities. The arsenal of rockets and missiles that it has, many of those were developed with Iranian know how. Because of Iranian training, Iran has sent kits to Lebanon, for example, to try and retrofit unguided missiles to turn them into precision guided missiles that
can strike anywhere inside of Israel. It has provided training to Hezeblah commanders, who then go back to Lebanon and train the rank and file. It has been intimately involved in the growth of Haba as a militia since the organization was founded back in the nineteen eighties.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Menna, who has said this assassination is proof and are quote we can strike anywhere unquote. What does it say about Israel's current intelligence and military position that they've been able to kill civil Harlem, hasbela command is as well as they later in such quick succession.
It says they have been incredibly successful at penetrating Hesbola and that has been the main focus of their intelligence gathering apparatus for almost two decades now. Since the end of the two thousand and six war. The Israelis during
that war tried to kill in Mosrella. They were unsuccessful, and they devoted a huge effort and a lot of resources in the subsequent years to develop sources inside of Lebanon who could give them information from inside of hes Ablah to as we saw with the pager in wakie talkie attacks, setting up front companies that could penetrate Hesbela's supply chains that could sabotage electronic devices that were being
shipped to Lebanon for the group. It has worked very hard to infiltrate the organization and it has been more successful, I think than anyone anticipated that it would have been.
Up after the break. How Hassan Israel's death will reshape the Middle East? Greg Israel has killed Hassan Israelab. It's a significant development in a conflict that has been ongoing since October seven. We have both seen his BLA and Israel launch missiles at each other out of the past year, but was both sides pulling back from a major escalation. So can you talk to me about while we have recently seen the conflict to escalate, what's changed.
Nostralla made a gamble almost a year ago on October eighth, when he started firing rockets at the Northern Israel in solidarity with Gaza. He made a gamble that he could sustain an open ended conflict but keep it a limited conflict, and for about nine months he was successful.
At that.
There was back and forth fire along the border. Has A Blah would fire short range rockets at northern Israel, which deepopated Northern Israel. Israel retaliated with artillery and air strikes in southern Lebanon, depopulated a part of southern Lebanon. But neither side, as you say, was willing to go further than that, to go beyond these informal rules of engagement.
That started to change in July when Hezebela fired a rocket which we believe was aimed at a military base on the Goal On Heights and the Israeli occupied Goal On Heights but overshot its target landed on a football pitch where children were playing, killed twelve children. The Israeli government at that point decided that it wanted to change these informal rules of engagement, and so three days after that it assassinated for Wadshukur, who was the military commander
of Hezebealah ahead of its military operations. He was killed in an Israeli air strike in Beirut. The thinking at the time was that that might have been a one off, that might have been a single bit of retaliation for the strike that killed those children, But in fact it was an opening salvo, and the Israelis went and prepared the plans that we've seen unfold over the past couple of weeks, this campaign of air strikes across the country,
a further series of targeted assassinations. There were many, many people in the Israeli government, in the Israeli Army who, for those nine months that the conflict was limited to the border, were very unhappy about that dynamic, who wanted Israel to escalate in order to try and change what
had become a frozen conflict. And that rocket that killed those children on the football pitch, that was the sort of shift that they needed, the opportunity that they needed to change Israeli policy and pursue this much more escalatory path.
What I was seven was saying as a major security failure for Israel that Hamas, which is a much weaker opponent than his Bellah was able to do that level of damage was a big shock to a lot of people in Israel. So how much of this assassination is about Israel reasserting it a terrance signal to its enemies.
Israel has wanted to do that for a y year now, I mean after October seventh, there were many many people making unflattering comparisons to nineteen seventy three, the MK War War, when Israel was completely taken by surprise by its Arab enemies who invaded and were able to temporarily at least
make big gains against the Israeli army. October seventh was the biggest security failure to happen in Israel in fifty years, and it left Israeli generals, Israeli politicians very eager to try and re establish the terrens across the region, and arguably they have done that over the past couple of weeks.
What impact will he's killing head on domestic politics in Israel and particularly on Benjamin Now he's understanding it.
Will help his political standing, which would have been unthinkable almost a year ago. After October seventh, To imagine that Nataniel, who was at the time the most I think unpopular prime minister in Israeli history to imagine that his fortunes could recover, but they are recovering. He for months now, I think, has been desperate to show Israelis that something is going well on one of the fronts on which Israel is fighting, and he hasn't been able to make
that case. In Gaza. The war has ground into a stalemate.
There.
Israel has not managed to achieve either of its stated goals, the total defeat of Hamas or the return of one hundred and one Israeli hostages who are still being held in Gaza. Hasn't accomplished either of those things so far, and the Israeli public, according to poll after poll, thinks that Israel is not winning the war in Gaza and
is very pessimistic about the government's policy in Gaza. So politically, for Nataniel, what's happened over the past couple of weeks is a chance to shift the focus somewhere else and to suddenly make it seem as if Israel is winning, or Israel is at least making progress. It's achieving successes rather than security failures. And so I think when we start to see opinion polls over the next couple of weeks of how Israelis would vote if there was another election.
I think those calls will show that this is probably helping.
That's in the Alpolitically, we have a situation now where there doesn't seem to be any end to conflict in site. We have over half a million people now this is placed in Lebanon. We have tens of thousands dead in Gaza. Where does all this end in terms of there being a potential resolution to these ongoing conflicts.
No one has an answer for that yet. Unfortunately. I mean, I think Israelis are exuberant right now because of these operational successes tactical successes in Lebanon over the past couple of weeks. But the strategic aim of all of this for Israel is to create conditions where sixty thousand people feel safe going back to their homes in northern Israel
on the border with Lebanon. And it's difficult to see how military action, even continued military action like we've seen over the past couple of weeks, is going to remove the threat of Hezibala firing rockets or perhaps carrying out a ground attack on northern Lebanon. That is what sent sixty thousand people fleeing to other parts of the country, and I'm not sure how the Israeli government creates an
enduring change in that dynamic just through military force. Similarly, in Gaza, Netaneo is still not interested in a cease fire. His coalition is not interested in a cease fire. Some members of his coalition still harbor the dream that Israel will occupy Gaza forever, it will rebuild the settlements that were dismantled in two thousand and five, and Netaniel doesn't want to cross his coalition, and so he is pursuing this sort of forever war in Gaza that looks like
it will doom the remaining hostages who are there. In fairness, the leader of Hamasi yes Sinwar also not interested in a ceasefire. He thinks prolonged war is going to help him by damaging Israel's international standing, damaging Israel's internal cohesion, and has a blat in Lebanon. We should say it is still firing rockets at northern Israel, even though it has taken these enormous blows over the past couple of weeks that certainly look like it's losing the war, and
this war is not accomplishing anything for it. It continues to fire rockets. So all of the parties to this conflict are continuing with open ended conflict even though they're not sure how that conflict is going to achieve any of their strategic games in the long term.
Greg, thanks for Jaton.
Thank you.
Also in the use today, SPICEX has sent in a to rescue two astronauts stranded on the International Space Station, which Wilmore and Sunny Williams were expected to be gone a week when they signed up for Boeing's first to astronaut flight, but they were unable to return due to safety concerns. When they finally do return in February, they will have spent more than eight months in space. And there were almost twenty three hundred assaults at New South
Wales schools in the year to June. New figure show the data released by the New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research points to her rise in intimidation, stalking and harassment incidents, with the rise and assaults spiking since the pandemic. While there has been a sharp increase in reports of assault in the past decade, data show's use of drugs and school grounds has dropped. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM. Thanks for listening.