How hate speech blew up the Coalition

It was a twist no one saw coming. Labour's hate speech laws have blown up the coalition.

I understand if you do the crime, you have to take the time, and if it is so requested, I will be stepping down.

From Shadow Cabinet.

It started with three senior Nationals resigning from the opposition front bench after defying Shadow Cabinet and voting against the government's hate speech laws.

I'm very aware of the conventions of Parliament, are.

Daring Susan Ladasaki.

Then after a late night emergency meeting, the entire Nationals front bench followed suit, resigning their positions in solidarity. I'm Nicole Johnston and you're listening to seven AM today Press Gallery journalist Karen Middleton on how Labor got their laws passed, imploding the coalition along the way. It's Thursday in January

Well, we saw the parliament recalled and on Sunday night, the Shadow Ministry met and determined a position, and that was the members of the Shadow Cabinet, who were both Liberals and Nationals. They got an agreed position on the hate crimes dimensions. The Nationals were going their own way on firearms laws, but they were all supposed to vote the same way on hate crimes. However, when it got into the Parliament, that's not what happened.

And unfortunately, despite the many positive elements of this legislation, the government has not been able to convince my party room, the National Party, that adequate safeguards are in place for the proposer take crimes.

And in fact Susan Lee has made the point in the statement she issued that there were three different positions from the Nationals across the two houses of Parliament. One voted for it, some voted no, and some abstained. So already we started to see things splintering. But where it got really untidy for the Nationals is that while they are allowed to cross the floor if they are back benches within the coalition, unlike in labor where they would be expelled for crossing the floor, if you are a

They will be out of the Shadow Cabinet.

They will still serve in other positions, Parliamentary committee positions and the like, and they will still obviously be in the Senate, but they will no longer be front benches as a result of that decision. They say they acted on their conscience that they felt they couldn't endorse the position that had been agreed, even though Susan Lee says that these issues weren't especially raised during the Shadow Cabinet meeting, and they've taken that course.

As you said, when they crossed the floor, they knew they were breaking the rules. But what was it specifically that they felt that this was worth quitting over.

Well, that's interesting, it's not entirely clear.

One of the things they have said is that they tried to amend the legislation to send it off to a committee to get longer scrutiny of it, and that was rejected. So that's the thing that they've pointed to most directly, but that doesn't seem to be all of it. And of course we know the Nationals are under pressure from One Nation. They've lost Barnaby Joyce, they're former leader,

And then yesterday David Little Proud wrote to Susan Lee warning that if she let the Nets walk that the rest would go, which is what we've now seen. So did we make the right call?

Well, I don't think she had any choice, Nicole.

I mean, she couldn't go against what the coalition usually demands, and that is solidarity among the shadow ministry, that.

Is the rule.

If she hadn't required them to resign, she would look weak and that would destroy her leadership. And her leadership may well be destroyed now anyway as a result of this. But David Little Powder was staring her down with that letter that emerged last.

Night, and she has.

Called his bluff and they've walked out, and so we're back to where we were last year with the Nationals. It seems kind of out of the coalition, not officially yet, but you've got to think that's a matter of time.

So when all of this happened, Karen, what did you think.

Well, the word that came to mind was debarcle.

I mean, you know, the government has been under pressure, the Labor government for its handling of the December fourteen terrorist attack at Bondai. The Coalition has forced the government's hand and making changes to its legislation.

And they've just gone and blown themselves up.

And politically speaking, that seems completely idiotic and given the government the ability to claim a victory at the end of the parliamentary sitting. So it's up to the coalition to explain how this is anything positive because it doesn't look like that to me.

So without the Nats on the front bench, are there even enough Liberals to fill all the roles?

Well barely.

I know there've been jokes about, you know, filling a minibus and that sort of thing since the federal election, but now, I mean it's not so much of a joke.

Really, is it.

Yeah, there are enough, but it isn't a coalition if the Nationals aren't represented on the front bench. And late last night, Susan Lee put out a statement saying there was no need for the Nationals to resign on mass and that she's basically going to keep their positions open and try to hold the coalition together. She said the Liberal Party supports the coalition arrangements because they delivered the most effective.

Political alliance for good government.

And she noted that David little Prowd's letter to her didn't talk about dissolving the coalition, so she's trying to avoid that happening.

So how likely is it that Susan Lee will keep her job after this?

I think it's very hard to see her continuing as things are, but there has to be a challenger. There has to be a challenger who can garner enough numbers in the Liberal Party. Bearing in mind the Nationals don't get a vote on the Liberal Party leadership to secure the leadership. Those who had designs on the leadership had indicated last year that they they weren't ready in wanted to wait. So it's a bit hard to know how it all goes, whether they can pull themselves back together

Coming up, what's actually in these laws, Karen, can you explain for us in some more detail how these new laws will work well?

The focus of the new laws are on a few different things. There is now a designation power for the Home Affairs Minister. He can nominate, designate proscribe organizations that are seen to be engaging in hate speech.

He can only do that if the.

Domestics FY Agency ASO has had the groups on their radar, has gave it evidence that they have been doing these things, and then made a report to the government.

And now the.

Opposition has also required that the Opposition leader be consulted in that process. So there are a few changes that have been made, but there are still some concerns about how that prescription regime might work and some fears that it could be used in future by a minister with a grudge against various organizations for reasons other than just the hate speech provision, so there's some controversy.

Still about that.

There are aggravated offenses for preachers, so people who hold leadership positions within religious organizations, if they are found to be engaging in hate speech, then the penalty for them is greater than for others. There are some aggravated provisions if you were seen to be influencing young people as well.

Passed, Karen. As you mentioned, the laws dramatically changed the way that hate groups are prescribed in Australia and the Minister now has more power over that process. So what could that mean in practice?

They've put a caveat in there or a safeguard in there that organizations could only be subject to this ministrial designation if they're already on AZOS radar. So if the domestics by agency has already been investigating them, has documented their activities and has evidence that they are engaging in hate speech to a concerning degree. That report would have to go to the minister first before the minister consider

We are hearing some concern that under the legislation, groups that criticize Israel or accused of genociding Gaza, that they could be caught up in these laws. What's your assessment of how these types of groups could fare under these laws.

Well, these are the kinds of difficulties that we face when we're legislating in this domain, and the Greens have certainly raised concerns. The Greens refused to support the Hate Speech Bill in the end because of that.

We will not be party to a legislation which divides communities and people along religion, which can be used to shut down political discourse and the right to protest, and which scape guards migrants.

They say fear that it will criminalize the legitimate protest against foreign governments, against the activities of foreign governments, or human rights.

Abuses, either in Australia or abroad.

So the government insists that legitimate protests will still be allowed, and they are some of the questions that government officials haven't really been able to answer yet, so we may well still see things play out in the courts. They were also concerned that these laws are restricted to offenses involving race and ethnicity and not religion.

More broadly, not sexuality, not disability.

They said that they were too narrow and that other people would be left exposed Muslims, for example. People of other faiths wanted them to be broader than that, and number of the Independents also oppose the legislation for some similar reasons and because of the short time that was given to analyze the bill.

Karen More broadly, today is a day of national mourning for the Bondai attack and the response to the massacre has divided the community. So can you see these laws going any way to healing that.

Well, we have to hope that they do.

I think having the Day of National Mourning is designed to bring people back to the grief about the events and to perhaps take the focus away from the politics.

Karen, thank you so much for speaking with us.

Thanks Nicole.

Also in the news, Queensland Premier David Chris A Foley has confirmed the state won't back the federal gun buyback scheme. The Prime Minister announced his intention to titan gun laws after the Bondai massacre on the fourteenth of December, including