From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. The fight over abortion in Queensland had seemed settled. It was decriminalized in twenty eighteen and has enjoyed solid public support since then, But with Katta's Australian Party now promising to introduce a bill to repeal those laws in the new parliament, it's become a surprise issue heading into this
weekend's election. The leader of the Liberal National Party, David Chris A Folly, has insisted he has no plans to change the laws, but if enough of his MPs choose to vote with their conscience, the decision could be out of his hands. Today, reporter and director of F and K Media Caitlin Sorry on the fight over abortion rights and how it will affect who leads Queensland. It's Thursday, October twenty four Caitlin, Hello, how are you good?
Afternoon?
Good so nice to see you. You're in Queensland at the moment, in the electorate of Caloundra and the state election is just a few days away. So in this final stretch, what has it been like? What are you seeing and hearing?
Yeah, so I'm seeing abortion signs popping up quite a few different variations, but the ones I saw today were a vote for the L and P is a vote to make abortion a crime. I saw three of them on my way into work today and they've been moving around the neighborhood, so I'm assuming some of them being pulled out and replaced with different ones. But it is
interesting because this is a marginal seat. Labor won it for the first time in twenty twenty by a margin of two point five percent, and it's an electorate where there's a lot of young family moving into the area. There's a big housing development locally, got a lot of people moving up from the south from Victoria, from New
South Wales because of the beaches. It's not that far from Brisbane, and so it's an area where you know, this kind of campaign around abortion access might actually have some impact.
Okay, well, let's talk about the campaign around abortion access. It didn't seem like it was a major issue in this election until very recently, So tell me about how that happened.
Yeah, So Robbie catter led off a bit of a hand grenade. He was asked about his position on abortion because he has introduced a private members bill previously earlier this year around late term abortions. So he was asked about this again and he said that he would work to repeal the legalization of abortion. Quote as quick as.
You like, we will, quick as you like put a repeal bill back into the Coinsland Parliament on those abortion laws.
This isn't something he said he was set out to de liberately talk about in this campaign. It was put to him, so he answered it, and he's like, I'm a straight up guy, you know, I'll answer the questions that are sent my way.
I responded as I always would by saying that if a proposition was put to us, or there was an opportunity to progress something that aligns with our values where I take it, the answer will always be yes. And you can cut and pace abortion with vegetation management laws or climate tax or whatever you like, we will always.
But it has really given labor the legs to go. What could happen in a new government, particularly when it seems pretty likely that we're going to have an L and P government.
Okay, can we pause and talk a little more about Robbie Catter here, because I think his father, Bob Catter, is the more well known politician. But Bob retired I believe not too long ago, and Robbie took over his party. So tell me a bit more about this family and their role in the Queensland political life.
Yes, so, Robbie Catter is Bob Katter's son and Bob Catter Senior has his influence goes back to the seventies. So he was first elected in the seventies. He became a minister under Premier Jobilki Peterson, who people will famously know. And the Kata Party when they formed in the twenty tens were really they're really a North Queensland party. They have at least four seats, are expected to retain those
seats and maybe I can pick up another one. And it's a party that really represents, you know, parts of North Queensland that don't feel like they're represented by the major parties. So they have Christian values. They've talked about things like corporate punishment for children and parents having the right to do that.
The matter of the fact is parents have lost their rights to discipline the children.
Some kids need a smack, a kick up the ass or ruler.
So they bring up things that maybe the major parties aren't too interested in talking about. But the Kata Party, okay, And so while the Catter Party is I suppose a minor party, it does sound like it's got a long history and it's got significant power.
But I mean, just how far does that stretch? Why did the suggestion that they might introduce a bill to repeal abortion, why did that have such a big impact on this election campaign?
Yeah, so earlier this year Robbie Catter introduced a member's bill that failed on late term abortions, focusing on the human rights of babies born alive after abortion.
Action speaking, more than thirty babies people are born into this world live in Queensland each year as a result of late term pregnancy termination procedure, thirty babies. This bill to amend the Termination and Pregnancy Act twenty eighteen and shrines and legislation the fundamental human rights of all persons human babies born.
Now, this is something that happens very rarely. There's a lot of guardrails about how these things are handled. But Robbie Catter is really concerned that baby is born and that survive the abortion end up in the bin. Now that's a claim he's said a few times as recently as last week.
The baby's plan.
Abortion comes out breathing with a heartbeat.
I'm probably going to struggle for life, but that they can just give us some care and dignity.
It's a human rights issue.
It's not an abortion issue.
To me, so that when I put that to medical professionals, they're like, that's really insensitive and that is not something that is happening, and it also undermines the professionalism of medical professionals in this field too, are doing everything they can to work with families. David Christophulei, the leader of the L and P, has said it's not part of the plant. I'm ruling out any changes to abortion.
There might be a change.
It has crossed the line and ruled it out.
Although he said there's no plan to change abortion in Queensland, he has also not ruled out a conscience vote. So whether it actually gets traction in the Parliament post this election this weekend is kind of up to whether there is a conscience vote on the issue, because if Kata's party puts in a bill that says we want people to be able to vote on their conscience, a conscience vote would allow his members to vote however they like
and we don't know what that would look like. Also, what's interesting here is that the L and P broadly voted against the legalization of abortion in twenty eighteen, and Chris A. Foley and his deputy Dared Lahey were among them. Only three members of the L and P voted with Labor. So we have this situation where the leader of the L and P is saying, look, there'll be no changes, you've just got to trust us. But when you look at how they're voted previously, they have voted against decriminalizing
abortion in Queensland. The Late Party have seen this as a way to wedge the L ANDP by saying a vote for the L and P is a vote for criminalizing abortion in Queenslandbody mind.
I mean this is this is a really important issue.
I think it shouldn't change. Everyone knows I think it shouldn't change.
The laws will remain the same.
Or you have a consciencepoke the laws will remain this there will do you need no change.
So it really is a live issue in Queensland now, even though this wasn't something we expected from this campaign, Suddenly we're all talking about abortion. When this was kind of put to bed in twenty eighteen, but now it's become a part of this election campaign.
After the break, how abortion access in Queensland could be wound back with or without an abortion bill. So let's talk more Caitlin about the pre twenty eighteen scenario and the context for this. I mean, how contentious has the issue of abortion been in Queensland before.
Yeah, so I started reporting on abortion politics in Queensland when I was like twenty one years old. So in Queensland, the laws were written in eighteen ninety nine. Abortion was criminalized in Queensland before Queensland women got the vote in nineteen oh five, and those laws kind of stayed in
place for a very long time. It wasn't until nineteen eighty five that we had a doctor actually charged with those laws for performing an abortion and they went to trial and he was able to argue that it was in the interest of the women's health and that became the legal defense upon which all abortion services in Queensland
were accessed. So basically we were kind of in this gray zone until about two thousand and nine where there was this weird case where a young couple imported an abortion drug from Ukraine and at the time abortion pills were able to be accessed by a guy ecologist in Cans, Carol and DaCosta, but they went down this other route where they got it imported through a throne who was flying on a flight to Cans and so they were charged under that law and there was kind of this
question and this tension around like abortion is criminalized in Queensland, but it also had this legal defense how covered our doctors in Queensland And so things kind of ticked along until twenty sixteen when Independent Rob Pine introduced a private member's bill seeking to decriminalize abortion and that went to the Law Reform Commission and they looked at these eighteen ninety nine laws and spent a year looking at it.
They had committees, they went around to Queenslanders asking them how do they feel about these laws, and really kind of brought the public along with them and they did a lot of surveys kind of seeing, you know, what was the appetite for change in Queensland. And so that ended up being a piece of legislation that went to the Queensland government and was finally signed in twenty eighteen
makeing abortion legal. So that's kind of the journey that we've been on from eighteen ninety nine to twenty eighteen and now in twenty twenty four the whole debate started again.
Okay, but there is a difference, isn't there between abortion being decriminalized and it being a realistic option for women. So when it comes to access, particularly in more remote or more regional areas, what is that like as it stands?
Yeah, so it is expanding. So the Labor government recently passed laws expanding access to abortion services, particularly in regional areas. Again that was opposed broadly by the L and P and so they've put aside forty one point eight million dollars towards the Termination of Pregnancy Action Plan twenty thirty two over five years. And what that does is it allows qualified nurses and midwives to perform medical termination using the MS two step in the early stages of pregnancy.
So it means that there are more people who can give out this medication and work with women who are in regional and remote areas who may not be able to access a hospital. So in large parts of Queensland it's a long way to get to a hospital and a surgical abortion is you know, quite a procedure for some people. So to have medical access where you can just take a pill, do it from home, be supervised by a nurse is another way to go. And so
that is rolling out. And when I spoke to Carolindacosta, who was an early part of the MIFA pristone access, she was the first doctor in Australia who was granted access to be able to give this to women. She said that it is coming into the public system, So it is becoming part of public healthcare in Queensland. But that process is ongoing. It's not it's not a kind of snappy fingers and it happens overnight, okay.
And so throughout this election campaign, David Chris fully he has been trying very hard to sell himself as this sort of moderate and more contemporary leader and if he wins, he will be somewhat of an anomaly. Not many states or territories are governed by a liberal party right now. So do you think that that signals that he will face unique challenges as the leader of the Queensland l ANDP and potentially as Premier.
Yes, So it is an interesting scenario because we haven't had an L and P leader in Queensland for a while. The last one was Campbell Newman and he was kind of a different political beast to Debi Crissa. Fully. Political scientists from Griffith Associate Professor Paul Williams kind of says, we're in uncharted territory. We don't. We haven't really had a situation in Queensland where we've had a progressive leader with a party room that is at least three quarters
Capital C Conservative. But if there's enough of a swing towards Chris a Fully and he has a mandate to say, look, I was elected, I'm the leader. The political analyst I spoke to said that he should have enough power to keep the party in line.
Right. But even if an abortion bill doesn't materialize or doesn't get through Parliament, there are other ways out there of making it difficult for people to be able to access abortion services.
Yeah. I was speaking to the CEO of Children by Choice, Jill McKay, and she said there's lots of ways that you can make abortion access less accessible that are less obvious than going the criminalization of abortion route.
We are funded. We are Queensland's only government funded all options pregnancy counseling service any other program that someone would contact, or any other service at they're contacting outside of Queensland Health, they will be running into anti choice people.
So their funding comes from the government. That can be reduced over time, which means that you give more space to people who may not talk about abortion, access to people who are pregnant and wanting counseling. You can also reduce the access to publicly accessible abortion in Queensland, so you can roll back some of that funding where it's going through the public system.
Perhaps they're you know, the way to take away that all choice space is to fund other programs or services or highlight them, or also to reduce the access public access to abortion in Queensland. So there's many many.
Other ways to kind look at it.
And because we don't know we're scared from children by choices perspective, we have reached out in.
That letter that we sent out, it's on public record. Please can we meet with you? Can please? Can we individually meet with you to talk with you as a candidate about what your perspective is on abortion access in Queensland And not one of them has taken it up.
And so this debate shows us that even though public opinion is really strong that the majority of people and Queensland support abortion access. This debate is far from settled. It's an issue that will always get people riled up. It's an issue that will always attract attention, and so even though there is broad public support, this is something that's going to come up again and again and throw into question women's right to have control over their body.
Well, Caitlyn, thank you so much for your time today.
You're welcome.
Also in the news today, Bruce Lammon is permitted to continue his appeal against his failed defamation case against Channel ten. The Federal Court has granted Laman a stay of the two million dollar cost and dismissed Ten's application for Lairman to pay two hundred thousand dollars as security for the
cost of the upcoming appeal. Lamon did not appear in court for the hearings, with his lawyer stating his scared to attend court after becoming arguably Australia's most hated man, and Donald Trump has made an extraordinary claim that the UK Labor Party has committed election interference just two weeks from the vote on November five, in a written complaint which misspells the word Britain. It's claimed that Labour sent
party members to campaign for Harris in key states. The letter references a LinkedIn post from the head of operations at UK Labor that claimed one hundred current and former staffers were campaigning for Harris. The Guardian reports the volunteers were campaigning on their personal time and not in their capacity for Labor. I'm Ruby Jones at seven am, will be back tomorrow.