From sports media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am. They're hard to miss the number of gambling ads flooding our screens and devices every day. They've become such an inescapable part of sport that a parliamentary inquiry was formed which looked at the impacts the ads are having on
the community. In the final months of her life, the Labour MP Peter Murphy was the chair of that inquiry, and after hearing from the gambling industry, dependent sporting codes and families impacted by gambling addiction, her position was unequivocal. All ads for online gambling should be banned. There's been more than fourteen months since the government received her recommendations, and yet the proliferation of gambling ads has continued unabated.
Now the Government could be set toward a down a ban in favor of caps on the number of ads per hour. Today, Independent Senator David Pocock from the stranglehold the gambling industry has on Australian sport and politics and what could be done to change it? Is Tuesday August six.
A.
Senator Pocock, thanks for your time.
Hey Daniel, good to be with you.
It seems to be part of the business model but also part of the culture of several sports. Now we know Australians lose more on gambling than anywhere else in the world. Can you tell me about how big an issue it is and who was impacted by this?
Well, we're the biggest losers in the world when it comes to gambling. We're number one on a per capita basis twenty five billion dollars a year. We're losing and
no one's suggesting that adults be banned from gambling. This conversation really is around what does it mean when you have a sports betting industry that is spending two hundred and eighty million dollars a year on advertising, to the point that three out of four eight to sixteen year olds think that sports betting is now just a normal part of enjoying sport, it's what you do. And we've got gamblers anonymous groups reporting that more under eighteens are
stigned to access their services. This is really about protecting young people and we have Peter Murphy's review.
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs, I present the Committee's report entitled You Win some you lose more online gambling and its impacts on.
Those a report that didn't mince its words. Peter Murphy said in her report, gambling ads are grooming children.
And what we heard from submitters, ranging from people with lived experience to researchers and academics and even people in the industry, is that ankering around the edges isn't going.
To cut it either.
And they had a host of recommendations, including a three year phase out of all gambling advertising, working with sports and industries that will be affected, and instead of backing that piece of work in we're seeing the federal government not have the courage to take on the gambling industry. Haven't seen the full details, but it sounds like they're going to be introducing caps on advertising.
So they may not be a total band, but there may be a ban on gambling gigs on social media. It seems like the government is leaning towards implementing that. Aspect of the report, what impact do you think an online ban will have.
One of the really worrying things talking to researchers who've been looking at this is because these gambling companies have such huge budgets, not just to place ads on social media and online platforms, but also to develop them. The feedback from particularly young young men and boys is that they actually really enjoy the ads they're entertaining. It's their favorite sports star or it's Shaquille O'Neil, and they're funny
and then they really speak to that audience. And that's incredibly worrying because what they're pushing is something that we know has significant harm and I think only a total phase band will ensure that we delive on what Australians overwhelmingly want and what advocates are telling us is needed to start to turn this around. When you implement a patchy ban, you're going to get patchy results and companies will find workarounds and loopholes.
And so what we've heard over the weekend in relation to that, Senator is that the government is not looking to have the same band for commercial television. We're looking at two gaming ads per hour and each channel until ten pm and banning ads an hour before and after a live sport. What do you make of that?
As a so we kin'd have gambling companies dictating government policy. Clearly, the government rather than backing in a report that had the backing of every party in the Parliament of Independence. They're saying, well, we see your report, but actually we're going to do more, something that's more in line with what the gambling industry wants. And it's not hard to understand why when you see the FI documents that reveal that the Minnesota Office met sixty six times with gambling
executives in six months. That's a lot of meetings about an upcoming reform. And you talk about advocates really trying to push for Australian's health and well being to put front and center in this, they certainly not getting that kind of access and this is having a very real
impact on thousands and thousands of Australians. I was recently at a parliamentary event on on gambling and we had a family come and talk about their son who struggled with a sports betting addiction to the point that he'd tragically taken his own life. And I remember sitting there as they read his suicide note, thinking what are we doing. How can we still be debating whether we should be allowing rampant advertising for gambling while families are losing their mostly sons to these products.
After the break the links the gambling lobby has gone to to prevent change, Senator Pacock. The parliamentary inquiry heard from advocates for change, but also heard from gambling companies and the sports codes.
And while the IFIL hasn't a prominent sponsori relationship with their betting partner, sports bet and Product for Ranger.
Gilan mclochlin was chief executive of the AFL at the time. In his submission he talked about the fact that gambling revenue generated by the AFL is reinvested into grassroots sport and he opposed the ban.
On our sport which allows us to invest in integrity and the grass roots participation in the growth of our sports.
We believe if the band was to be implemented, what impact do you think would have on grassroots sport?
And this was part of the consideration of the Murphy Review and that's why they proposed a three year phased approach, as well as a range of other recommendations like establishing a national gambling regulator, developing a national harm minimization strategy, a levy on gambling operators to pay for some of the harms that they cause. And we've heard from sports when tobacco advertising was banned. We heard all the same arguments that it would mean less revenue. It tends to
be existential for them. For me, this is about one putting Australian's health and well being ahead of mostly multinational gambling companies and secondly, really trying to go to the question, well,
what is sport for? Is sport something that is there to be enjoyed, somewhere where people can feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves, that they can challenge themselves and then when they support their favorite team, to feel that excitement and exhilaration of supporting a team with thousands of other people and being part of that crowd. Or is it simply a product that allows administrators to flog other things that we know are harmful and are
particularly harmful to young people. And what I'm hearing as an independent senator is that people want sport to be the first thing and that's going to mean that we have to break this nexus between gambling and professional sport.
Former AFL boss Gil mcgloughlin has been appointed as the new CEO of Tabcorp.
And yeah, it's no surprise that someone like Gil McLachlin then goes and works for the gambling industry.
He is a familiar face to many, having steered the AFL to great success for a long time, and he joins Tabcorp. Now that's got some challenges on its hands.
I dare say they wouldn't be making that higher if we had actually implemented the Murphy Review recommendations.
What does it say about the relationship between sport and gambling that someone like Gilian McLoughlin has gone on as the new role of chief executive of Tabcorp, Australia's largest gambling company.
Well, it says that it's with some particular sports, it's become totally enmeshed. It's no longer just a sponsor. It's part of the business model and we have to break and that's what the Murphy Review did. And this is something that Independence and minor parties in the Parliament have been pushing the Government on because we're here to represent our communities, we're not here to represent the gambling industry. And what we're hearing is that people want this dealt with.
There's the political will in the Parliament and it's incredibly disappointing and I think displays a real lack of courage from the government to not follow through with it.
Last year, the Communications Minister Michelle Roland faced calls to resign after it was revealed that sports Bet had made financial contributions to her election campaign. You also mentioned earlier that the minister has met with gambling companies on numerous occasions. What faith should Australians have in the political process when we hear stories like that.
Well, I was very concerned about hearing that sports Bet had made donations. The Minister hadn't declared them because they were below the the threshold, and the government sort of said, well, there's been no wrong committed here, which I think points to how sort of lacking political donation and transparency arrangements when it comes to our elections. And then also I think when it comes to lobbying, we only know about all these meetings because of FOI requests. There's currently a
very loose lobbyist register, ministerial diaries aren't released. These are all things that I think should also happened. But the most worrying thing is that after the whole thing, after the election campaign, the minister then gets wined and dined on her birthday by the gambling industry and again doesn't think that there's any issue with that, which I think
is pretty extraordinary. And I think when you see the Murphy Review alongside the Center from the majority of Australians, you know, I think the last polling I saw was seventy percent of Australians want a total gambling ad ban. When you compare that to what the government's now going to offer up as their solution, you have to start asking questions about vested interests, about access, about the power of lobbyists and industry to get the outcome they want,
not the outcome that's good for Australians. This requires political courage and people want to see this happen and this will certainly be something that I will continue to push the government on now and into the election.
Send it to pay a Cock. Thank you for your time, Thanks for having me, Daniel Chairs. If you're affected by gambling and need support, there is a website help online dot org dot aye. Also in the New Use today, ASIOL has lifted the terror threat to probable. Asio's director General Mike Burgess said more Australians are being radicalized and
more quickly, making our security situation volatile. And unpredictable. He said the conflict in Gaza has been a significant driver, though was not the cause for raising the terror threat. The terror threat has been in the lower level of possible since November twenty twenty two, and the new Minister for Indigenous Australians Well and Dearie McCarthy says the Federal government has not abandoned plans to establish a Macarata truth commission.
At the Garment Festival in Northeast darnham Land over the weekend, mister Albanez he said a truth telling commission was not what the government was proposing, instead saying he met Macarata as simply coming together after a struggle. Key Yes campaigners have criticized mister Albinezi for breaking a key election promise, but Senator McCarthy says he was misrepresented and the government is sticking with its commitment. That's awful today. If you've
enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. It helps a lot. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM. Thanks for listening.