From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM. When Kathy McGowan won her seat of Indie as an independent in twenty thirteen, it sent shockwaves through the political establishment. What was supposed to be a safe Liberal seat was no longer safe. Back then, she was one of only two independents in the House of Representatives. Now, heading into the twenty twenty five election, the movement she helped ignite
is in full force across the country. A third of electorates are organizing to put forward a community back to Independent. Today former Federal MP Kathy McGowan on who within the major party should be worried about holding onto their seats and if there's such a thing as too many independents in the Parliament. It's Wednesday, January fifteenth, Kathy, As we head towards the election, can you give me a sense of how big the Community Independent movement is right now?
How many candidates are running across the country.
It's really hard to be exact because it's an organic movement and there's no one controlling at all. But what I do know is in July last year, the Community Independent Project hosted an online convention and there was representatives from fifty one electorates at that convention and a thousand people. There's one hundred and fifty one electorates in Australia, so basically a third of the electorates participated in that convention.
So the numbers of people involved are big and they're influential.
What makes an electorate right for a campaign from an independent.
Yeah, so there's a couple of things that need to happen. One is you've got to have a community group. So that's leaders who are going to do the work, because it is work, so it doesn't really matter who the leaders are, but they've got to be people in the electorate with a passion for community and they've got to have enough expertise in bringing community together. So that's really important. And then the second thing is within that leadership group,
but a bit wider. I want for something different, something better. Now, if you haven't got that want for something better, it's really hard to build the momentum. But we're not short of that. In Australia. We have got huge numbers of electorates where people are thinking they're not getting what they want. They want a better choice, and they look at what happens in electorates like Indie or Warringa, and they say
we want some of that. So there's no shortage of people thinking that the two party system is not working for them and that maybe this option could actually give them better outcomes.
You really kicked off the independent movement we're seeing now. When you run in twenty thirteen, coming up against the two major political parties is a very daunting thing. What advice would you give independent candidates on how to cut through when it's coming up against these giant ensities.
So in twenty thirteen in Indi, we are an isolated rural community. Everyone forgot us. We were taken for granted as a coalition seat. So our group of community leaders said it's actually about community being at the center of politics and that if you voted for me, this is what you'd get. You'd actually get a representative who represented you. I wasn't the answer to all their problems, but I would represent them and I would always put my community first.
Fifty nine year old Kathy McGowan is a community leader with a long track record in these pasts. She's an independent whose form marriage equality is embarrassed by the national debate on asylum seekers and talks about climate change to farmers.
In reality, it is, of course you're going up against the the big parties with a lot of money, but a representative that the community wants has got so much going for it. It's got a natural momentum. But there was another side as well. We were able to have fun. And I don't say this lightly. The major part is it's so heavy and it's so angsty, and they're always arguing with each other and they're often very nasty, whereas in the community independence movement that's not the way communities work.
So given a choice of do you want to have fun and have pizza knights and get to know your neighbors and go outdoor knocking and get to know your community and be trained in how to do it and have an opportunity for leadership and have real impact versus being told what to do by Melbourne or Sydney or Brisbane, you know, like it was a no brainer. So in one way, ignoring your opposition, ignoring the competition and just
getting ahead with it was the real skill. And that's counterintuitive, isn't it, But it really did feel to me, And the more we went out and the more we were the chain, the more we bought people together, and the more we build community the quick of a movement group. And that's what we're seeing happening around the country now, is that community love being engaged, they love belonging, they love the offer and the hope.
Well, let's not ignore them for a second. Which major party politicians should be most worried about independence this year?
I actually think the whole system needs to worry. Quite frankly, when I first got elected, I can remember just talking to the organizers of that Liberal Party at the time and said, guys, you should have seen this coming. You should see the drop off in your vote. You should see that you haven't got grass through its connection. You should see that when you have the conferences, you're not actually addressing the issues that are real to people. So
that in disengagement from the parties is really obvious. And unless they can fix their model up by really relooking at not only the issues but the organizing, I can't see them ever going back to how they were in the fifties and the see.
So given that, I mean, we saw people like Josh Fredenberg and Tim Wilson lose out in the last election Is there anyone in your mind that could meet a similar faith.
Yeah. I think there are three electorates that I'm watching really closely. So the one of one and in Western Victoria. The incumbent there is Dantien. Now Dan's a lovely man, a good person, but he's really caught up in being a member of his party and the inability of that party to address the regional problems that Australia is facing. So Alex Dyson there.
I could just keep up this grassroots independent campaign focusing on what the community actually wants, like better roads, shorter weight lists when it comes to age care and childcare, fairer funding for our So very.
Strong candidate, and this is the third time he's running. I think he's in with a chance. The other one is up in Bradfield in Northern Sydney. Now that was Paul Fletcher, but he's stepping down. Nick Bulla is there and she's running a very strong campaign. She's one then independent with me, no destruction from puction with me. The third seat that I think is been a really strong contention is in Kauper, New South Wales. Cass heis I.
Don't work for a party, I'm not beholden to party politics. I'm beholden to the community.
So Kauper is based around Port mcquarie and Coffs Harbor, so she ran last time as well and did very well. Now that's a National Party seat again, the demographics of that seat have changed and the sense that community could have something better for itself is very strong.
Now.
I say those three because each of those candidates have run before and they've built a base, got very sophisticated community engagement. Now that's not to say that there are not other electorates that have got good campaigns. There are, but I think those three are really ones to.
Watch after the break are warning for the major parties. Kathy. A lot has been said on this program and elsewhere about how we're heading towards a hung parliament where independence will have a lot of power. What's to stop a certain level of chaos going along with that amount of power.
That's often what people say, and the people who put that out is that a two party opposition is better. Are the two parties, so it's their vested interest to keep that competition. And if you've got closer numbers in parliament, then you actually have to negotiate and if you're negotiating with someone who actually represents their community, they are going to negotiate from a much much tougher position than someone who just represents a party, and they're safe in their
job because they've got party endorsement. So I actually like the idea where the numbers are much closer, where the majority she has to actually work with the crossbench to get better legislation. I just absolutely think it's in our national interest. And I'll just give you one example. One of the issues I've been following closely is the gambling reform.
The Prime Minister is under pressure to enact a total ban on gambling advertising, with the cross benches accusing Labor of shying away from meaningful reform.
The current government said, well, we're not going to back the recommendations of the committee, and the cross bench said, well, we've all worked really closely. The committee system has come up with this. We think you should back getting rid of gambling on TV. At certain times, I say just ban it. Ban gambling advertising on television full stocks.
Eighty percent of Australians want this, and we have a government that doesn't have the guts to actually stand up to the gambling industry.
So just do it, shusan goddamn courage for once in your lives, for this future of our children. So I think when those sort of debates happen, we really should be paying attention because those community independents are actually reflecting their community push, whereas I suspect the government has got other interests at play there. But I do say to people, listen carefully when someone says, oh, it's going to be chaos. That's a two party line and it doesn't actually represent
the reality of our lived experience. This country works very very well with parliaments that are well balanced.
How many independence is too many?
Oh, it's the caliber of the community representatives. Like it's a question like how many National party people are too many?
I refuse to answer that.
Yeah, it's the caliber. And then I would say the strong members of Parliament, whichever place they come from, are people of courage who commit to represent their communities and do what's right. And I don't think we've got nearly enough. Quite frankly, I would like to see a lot more debate and a lot more constructive I suppose ways forward. But there's also something else about it. It's not only
this election the movement's not going to go away. And as I've referred to, the three candidates I hope who get elected to the crossbench or ran at the last election. So maybe there's thirty candidates running. Some will get up, they'll be running at the next election and the next election. So what in fact is the impact of this foundational work. It's really hard to tie down, but it's also really
closely linked with how the major parties respond. If the major parties continue to ignore it and go about their way, then that will have huge repercussions on how the parliaments work in the future.
Kath mcgawan, thank you so much for your time.
You're welcome. Good morning everybody.
In the news today, lawyers for the family of an Australian pilot facing extradition to the United States have launched a legal challenge in the Federal Court. Daniel Duggan, an Australian citizen and former US Marines pilot, is due to face charges for allegedly training Chinese pilots. Dugan was due to be extradited by February after the Commonwealth government agreed to surrender the fifty six year old to the US.
That will be paused until a judicial review is finalized and the Victorian Police Chief Commissioner says an alarming number of Victorian police members have been investigated for alleged sex crimes and family violence. Figures released by the force show a total of six hundred and eighty three police officers and public servants were investigated between twenty nineteen and June twenty twenty four, with alleged defenses taking place both on
and off duty. I'm Daniel James. This is seven a m. Thanks for listening.