Australia’s childcare crisis

Just a warning before we get started. This episode discusses child sexual abuse. Please take care while listening. Are children safe at childcare?

I believe right now they're not safe.

That's a huge statement.

It is. This sector is in crisis and that's why the governments really have to act urgently, because children aren't safe.

Adele Ferguson is an investigative journalist at the ABC. She spent more than a year reporting on the crisis unfolding in Australia's childcare system, and last week, alongside her colleague Chris Gillette, she won the top honor in journalism, the gold Walkley. Her work has inspired us at seven Am and so today we're bringing you an episode we made back in July where we spoke to Adele about her investigation.

We begin with one of the most distressing child sex abuse investigations in Victoria's history.

Hundreds of children are tonight awaiting urgent Adele thank you for speaking with me. Can you just lay out for us the allegations that have emerged in the last few days about sexual abuse in Victorian childcare centers.

Yeah. So it was a twenty six year old called Joshua Brown who was arrested and charged with seventy counts of sexual abuse of children, eight children between the ages of five months and two year so very young. Police have records of the man working at twenty different childcare centers between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty five, most of them in Melbourne's West.

The state government, how is it.

That that could happen? What safeguards are in place to stop perpetrators working in childcare centers?

They are supposed to be working with children's checks, but they're deeply flawed. So each state is different. In Queensland you have the Blue card and other states there's the working with children and what happens is you have to have been charged with a serious offense to lose you working with children checks, so you might be under the radar and so you have a working with children's check,

The man he was alleged to have molested children in his care worked across several centers. On the surface, it's hard to understand how he wasn't caught by our colleague sooner, can you tell me what your reporting has uncovered about why it is that childcare workers may not report abuse if they see it.

Yeah, there's a number of reasons. One, how do these people get away with it? You know, in the case of Ashley Griffiths, who's now in jail off for life, he worked across many centers and it went under the radar. Anythink, how does that happen when this guy had tripods and was filming in the childcare center.

One of Australia's worst ever pedophiles has been sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for twenty seven years after confessing to raping and abusing scores of girls in childcare centers across Australia and overseas.

One of the reasons is lack of supervision. There aren't enough staff. There's a lot of gaming of the system when it comes to staff to child ratios. But in terms of the reporting of it, it's mandatory to report. But there's two reasons why it often doesn't happen. One, a lot of educators don't understand child protection policies. They don't understand the mandatory reporting that's required, so they don't do it. And the other reason is they're too scared.

Your Four Corners investigation into the childcare sector revealed that even the dodgy ist providers who aren't meeting basic standards are still allowed to operate. Can you explain how that works?

Yeah, that's that's exactly right.

You know.

One of the problems is there's been this explosion in for profit operators, private equity listed companies, overseas operators, and they're putting profit before children. And because there's such a demand for childcare centers, the regulators seem to not have the appetite to go after them. So when educators do something wrong, in many cases, when you're looking at the regulatory documents or you're talking to parents, not a lot

There's been a lot of focus by the federal government on expanding access to childcare. Within that, what focus has there been on safety?

Not a lot, as we can clearly see. It's only since this terrible incident happened in Victoria that governments are coming out saying we've got to do more. Jason Clair was on seven point thirty saying we haven't done enough and we've got to move faster.

We're taking action, but not enough action has happened and not fast enough.

All right, let's talk about that.

Safety has not been on the agenda. It's all been about affordability.

The honest answer to you is that this job will never be done. That there will always be bad people that try and break through the net. That doesn't mean that you do nothing, though. That means that we've got to do everything that we possibly can to make sure that our children are safe. That's why people are talking now about CCTV or about an educator register, about improving working with children checks. None of that is a silver bullet. None of that is going to guarantee every child is safe.

What the government is saying is by September they will have a working national Working with Children checks. There also needs to be a national registration scheme for educators so that we can track who they are how often they've moved around. We have that for age care, we have it for teachers, we have it for medical practitioners. We don't have it for child care workers.

After the break, the former National Children's Commissioner Ann Holland on a national response that could protect the voiceless. And you've called for stronger regulation of the childcare sector. What would that actually look like. What sort of things would change to make sure that there is stronger regulation.

Well, first of all, I think we need independent oversight and monitoring. What I'm unclear about is how independent the current regulators are in the states and territories. Secondly, they need to be properly resourced, so you know, we've heard allegations that they're not visiting centers very often, and that's because of a lack of funds. And then thirdly, they need to have teeth to act. They need legislation that

Another thing that has been flow at the moment is that all childcare centers should have CCTV surveillance within them. What do you think about that?

Well, I think The recommendation came out of the New South Wales review after the Four Corners episodes, and I think that recommendation said that you'd only have CCTV for the dodgy providers. Well, the dodgy providers shouldn't be operating, so forget that. They should be out of the game. And I note that Good Start Early Learning, which is the largest not for profit provider in the country, have already announced that they're going to install CCTV everywhere, so

We've also heard a lot in the wake of these allegations that a discussion has emerged about banning men from working in childcare centers. Do you think that that's a legitimate proposal policy that the sector could adopt, or is are the other factors that need to be taken to an account?

Well, look, I think it's an overreaction and I perhaps understandable given how outraged we are across the country right now, but I don't support you know, I think there are very good childcare workers of both men and women in the sector who are doing an amazing job. Kids need role models of both gender. We just need better screening and recruitment measures. We need better training of staff, all

You said National Cabinet must make child safety and well being a key priority in the same way that women's safety is a top priority. What would that actually look.

Like, and well, you know that could be done with the stroke of a pen, Daniel. There could be a decision made by the Prime Minister that you know, we need to prioritize child safety and well being and he gets state and territory colleagues to agree to that. With women and women's safety, what it looks like is that there are reports it's to National Cabinet on reform actions that have been agreed on and all the states and

No one.

Another mechanism that I've recommended in a report to Parliament last year, as well as a Minister for children as well as national Cabinet oversight, is a Ministerial Council on Child Wellbeing. So this would be a council of experts from different disciplines that would provide advice to ministers about what needs to be done. Again, we don't have any of that for children.

What does it say about our society, and that we've relegated the care of our oldest and our youngest to systems driven by profit and which we see time and time again. I write with abuse.

Well, you know, I spent a lot of time asking myself why are children sidelined and often invisible when it comes to policy? When you ask about that in terms of children, well, they don't vote, for a start, they don't have a voice, and there is no accountability mechanisms in place. What does it say about our society? Well, I think it shows actually a gap between what people value.

And thank you so much for your time, Thanks Daniel. Since me originally ran this story, Four Corners has published another investigation into how widespread abuse is in childcare. The government has responded to the crisis by promising to implement a national Working with Children's system, something the Royal Commission to Child Sexual Abuse recommended more than a decade ago.