TOM's Talks | Todd MacCulloch

been a treat. This is Tom's Talks, my new podcast, Tipping Things Off. In a first episode, I talked to a long time friend, former Sixers center Todd McCulloch, a fan favorite, the Big Man from Winnipeg, Canada, also at one point joined me on the radio. Here's our conversation. Well, Todd, thank you for joining us. First of all, how are you doing? What's quarantine looked like outside Seattle and the McCulloch house. We're getting used to kind of a new

normal here. So we're learning how to how to home school. And we've got a got a sixth grader and a fourth grader, so we're learning how to be sixth grade and fourth grade teachers. We're doing the best we can with that, and we're having lots of lots of family time together and and everybody gets to Uh, we got a lot of movie movie nights together, so they're kind

of learning about my movie taste. And I'm watching a lot of Pixar Marble movies, and you know, my wife is getting some of her picks in there as well. So we're learning about each other's movie taste and spending a lot of time together. But we're we're getting through.

If I remember having visited your house once when Seattle was still in the NBA, you had a huge movie room with I mean chairs that I think the Seahawks played the front of the Alignment of the Seahawks because set there is that still where you guys watch your movies. Uh sometimes, yeah, I was in there last night. It's a it's it's a comfortable place to to watch movies.

But mainly we're just in the family room is kind of connected to the kitchen, and so that's kind of where we where we congregate and that's kind of our family space. So that the media room sometimes and most of the time it's just the TV kind of in the kitchen family room area. You have a beautiful home.

I remember when we visited. We were with the TV crew of what is now NBC Sports Philadelphia, and your garage is a three story garage and that's where you had a lot of the machines, and we went to one level after another, but you were kind enough to treat us with subway. We had some catered food there. And Quilla, our good friend, and the great producers such as Television said, and your house looks like Villanova's gym.

It's got white panel pine. It's gorgeous, as they said, and Jr. Said, Geez, Codd surprised with how nice your house is that your neighbors are so close. You let me go. That's the garage. I remember that. That was That was a funny moment. So we're fortunate to have some space here to not be on top of each other. Right. So, Washington was one of the first places in the United States where COVID nineteen, the coronavirus started out there in

Kirkland with that nursing home situation. Was that kind of wild that it started in your region of the country. Yeah, it was. That really hit home literally, just to see what was going on. In China, and then to hear about some of the European countries, and then to have some of the first cases here in Seattle was very alarming, and just to see what was going on in the

Kirkland area. And fortunately, I think our governor, you know, took things very seriously right from the beginning and instituted some pretty tough, tough manasures and it you know, it's been tough economically for a lot of people, but what I think it's done is it's curtailed some of that exponential growth that other cities are seeing. And so I think Seattle kind of went down into a lockdown situation

a little bit earlier than some other people. So while we still have increasing numbers, it doesn't seem to be happening on an exponential level. And I think that's because of some of the early steps that were taken in this area. Right. So you went to the University of Washington, and so did seventy six ers rookie Matisse Bible and I know you watched him play at u W and

are a big fan. Tell us a little bit about your impressions of Matife so far and what it was like to watch him play as a husky out there in the Pacific Northwest. No, I haven't met Matize, but

I already loved the guy. I know. I know people that know him, and they spoke extremely highly of him, and just watching him, even if you didn't know him as a person, just to see that kind of effort and how hard he plays that I loved watching him play, and he just had this quiet intensity to just get it, get it done, and he never quit on any play ever. And so when I heard that Philadelphia drafted Who, I was thrilled because I knew that you guys would fall

in love with him. I knew how hard he worked and how much the fans would appreciate that effort. And I also had heard from people what a great guy he was and how much people would like him personally. So I thought that was a great fit, and I was happy that the Sixers got such a such a great teammate. And that doesn't surprise me at all that he's uh that that people really like the way the way he plays. So I'm looking forward to meeting him one of these times when when he comes back to Seattle.

And you know, I'm enjoying watching him play because I think he's phenomenal and he just has incredible instincts. And you combine those instincts and those gifts with effort and it makes makes for quite a quite a difficult player to score on. And Mike Hugh, he's got great, great character and he's a wonderful person to have a run our team and in our organization. What was it like

for you to play at the University of Washington. You grew up in Winnipeg, You play at at UW for Bob Bender, and what was it like at the time, I'm assuming it was the Pac ten Pac twelve to play in that league, and at what point did you realize that you might end up being an NBA player. Took It took a little while. I loved playing here. It was a big adjustment for me coming from Winnipeg, Manitoba. I believe I was the first player to go directly from a Manitoba high school to a D one college,

and so it's kind of an uncharted path. And I was not prepared for for the weight room, for the fitness, for the athleticism, and few adjustments a few seas in those early days. You wouldn't have thought I would have been much of a college player at all, but I but I stuck with it and ended up having a very good experience at the University of Washington. I read shirted my first year, and that was a challenging year

for me, but I came a long way. And I think it was my freshman year, which would have been after my red shirt year, we went to Michigan and at the time they had two players from the Fab Five left at Jimmy King and Ray Jackson. And we were coming off a tough season the year before nine eighteen, trying to get a winning record, trying to get to some post post season play, and it came right down to the wire and I think we got a shop

blocked at the buzzer and we lost by one. And while I was not happy that we lost, I was happy that we were competitive against a team that had some prestige. And I think I had twelve points and ten rebounds, and I think at that point I thought, Okay, I just had a double double against this Michigan team that a lot of people still know, So, you know, maybe maybe I have a chance to be a decent college player if I can get a double double against a high profile team like this, so it gets a

tough opponent. And that's I think when I started, the coaches always believed in me. I think they could see the potential that I had. But for me, I think that that made me realize that if I keep going, you know, maybe I can have an impact at the college level. And when you got drafted to the NBA, what did that moment feel like? It was a little bit bitter sweet. I was just talking to a friend of mine about that. I mean, I think it's it's

all about your your perspective. And I ended up going on to a good college career, and I think I wanted to be a first round pick. I think anyone that you know, it's it's it's obviously an honor to get drafted, and there's only maybe sixty people that are drafted each year and on this planet, and it's a

huge honor. But I think my expectations and my hope was to be a first round pick, and I thought that maybe I'd done enough in my four or five years at Washington to get one of those top thirty spots.

That didn't happen, and so I was sort of devastated and I was looking looking back, I was very uh, I was sad, and it just wasn't a celebratory moment for me, and that that came later, and I had an assistant coach that had some champagne there to celebrate and he could sort of see that I wasn't in a celebratory movement and he said, you know what, we're going to We're keep this for another time. We're going

to celebrate later. And that moment did happen later in my career, and so I think I used that as a motivation and I ended up playing with Team Canada that summer with teammates like Steve Nash, and all of a sudden, that confidence that I felt like I had lost I was reading. I realized, you know what, I am a good basketball player, and playing with somebody like

Steve Nass that he makes everybody look good. I started to believe in myself again and played well that summer and ended up ended up with a two year contract with the Sixers. And we'll get into that, but you've shared over the years some of those stories about Nash after games, like meetings on the beach and the leadership that he showed and the way he connected everybody. I know he's still involved with Team Canada. A little bit about Nash and your experience in the international game with him.

The most unbelievable person, teammate, competitor guy. I mean, he's obviously a great basketball player. He's been a two time NBA MVP. It doesn't get much, there's no there's not a bigger accolade, I think than being named the MVP of this amazing group of athletes, and he's done that twice. But that's he's even a better guy than that, which he's just an amazing leader. And we were so much better with him, and not only were we better in the court, but we just had more fun off the court.

I mean, we won a game in Puerto Rico and at center Circle we would get together as a team and uh and thank the crowd for their support. And then Steve said, all right, when we get back to the hotel in San Juan, I want everyone in the in the ocean we're playing. We're playing five hundred and I'm gonna pitch you know you guys are and be on the ocean. It was just like, oh, this is great. We did our work, we won as a country, and

now Steve. Steve's going to be throwing the soccer ball to us in the in the ocean Puerto Rico, and then we would be ready to play the next day. But he really kept it fun. And we'd be riding on a school bus and he'd be sitting on the luggage just strumming away in a guitar, just like a camp fire field. He would give up his first class seats on the plane to big guys like myself, just just just you know. He was an unbelievable teammate. What great memory. So you come to the Sixers and Larry

Brown was the coach, Iverson was on the team. What was your initial reaction coming to Philadelphia. I don't know what to think, but I was just excited to be part of an NBA franchise. And I had met coach Brown at the at the press conference, and then he was in the Olympic tournament in Puerto Rico as well, so I'd had a chance to get to a coach

Brown a little bit. And you know, I met Matt Geiger right away, and I met a bunch of the other guys, and I Aaron McKee and Iver Soon and George Lynch and you know Tyrone Hill, if you right, love just a great group of guys and I really liked them right from the start. And people people helped me. They helped me defensively, They helped me with all the aspects that I was going to improve on to be an effective India player. And no more than Coach Brown,

who loves to coach and he loves to teach. And so being one of the young guys, you'd come in early and he would run us in two on two, three on three, so we would have a little mini practice before the real practice started. And so he I think he really enjoyed teaching and I was ready to learn, try and figure out how to adapt to this NBA style game. They called you dip fondly, what was the

genesis behind that nickname Dip? So my first NBA game was against the San Antonio Spurs, and this was right after they had won the abbreviated fifty game season, and so we were there in San Antonio for the first game of that season and that's when they received their rings. And so Coach Brown and Coach Popovich were good friends, and so Coach Brown said, hey, let's let's pay our respects and let's let's you know, this is where we

want to be. So let's let's honor these guys for the season they had last year, and let's try and be that team this year. And so this is this is my first NBA game, and here we are, you know, watching San Antonio Spurs get their rings. And David Robinson is somebody that I looked up to as a youngster, someone with a lot of I see number fifty there and in behind you, and he wore number fifty. I

ended up wearing number fifty. Just thought he was a class act and had incredible skills and was a very well rounded person as well as being a great basketball player. So here I am now trying to guard him. And this was the old NBA rules where the defensive principles were a little bit different and somebody legal defense was

different and you could really at the floor. So David Robinson, you know, I think he was looking as chops when I get into the game and he said, like ISO, So everybody just the red Sea parted and everybody went in the four corners the baseline and it was just me trying to trying to stay in front of David Robinson. It didn't go well for me, and they ended up having a pretty good game. But I did go up strong,

which for me wasn't necessarily dunk in the basketball. But I went for a power two hand layup and I went up and I saw David Robinson's hands and then I saw Tim Duncan's hands, and there's these four massive hands that were going to block me, and I thought I got to do something. This power layup isn't gonna work. So I just brought it down, did a little dip dip, and then threw it up and somehow, you know, I was trying to look like Jordan in the playoffs against

I think Portland or he had that incredible play. It didn't look like that, but somehow it avoided all four of those huge hands went off the backward and went in. And I was as shocked as anybody. And I looked at the bench and I thought they would have been like yeah, but they were all laughing and they could look you gave him the dip. What is this? You're the dip down, So that Aaron McKee was like, what is this? That's how I got the nickname. I didn't

realize it, but that's probably when are you kidding me? Started? And probably that would that would make sense. Yeah, that I couldn't do that I want to gain in a million years. But I knew I had to try something because going up not getting it done on those guys. And just to be clear, they gave me that when I was fifty some years ago, so I didn't steal your number. It just it was a birthday gift from the seventy sixties. So look, what was it like playing

with Iverson and traveling with Iverson? Because I remember those years too, and you know how the fans, the autograph seekers were at the hotel, I mean obviously with Lebron and Michael and like that, and on some level it was the same thing. So what was it like from your perspective to travel with Alan Iverson? Oh? It was he was a He was a riot and so I always had, you know, a disc man with you know, back back in the day, pre pre iPod, and I

you know, I was at music listen to you. But I never wanted to do it because I didn't want to miss the Iverson show and I didn't want to miss the jokes. He was cra and just how entertaining it was, so I didn't want to missing me, so I didn't use my music player very much at all. And I remember, you know, people would talk about him hanging out at Friday's when I first got to fill it Fridays, and I thought Fridays must be something happening club and I found out that it's TGI Fridays and

it was near the practice facility. So I went there with my Winnipeg friends and where maybe a month or two into the season and I'm with my Winnipeg friends. They can't believe him in the NBA. I can't believe him in the NBA. And Iverson is with his friends in the in the corner, and I think he went past my table to maybe use the restroom or something. And I'm still a little nervous and start start. Even

though we're teammates. I mean, he's just the larger than life personality and just people want to be around him. And I was no different. And I said, Helen, I don't mean to bother you, but will you take a second here and maybe sign an autograph for my friends, maybe take a picture. And he was like, yeah, sure, I'll take a picture of your friends. All the sign but who were you When I go what And he's like, I got you, man, They'll be so gable. And he's making fun of me in front of my friends, and

I'm like, that's not funny out So he was. He was cool. Great, And then that team, of course made it to the NBA Finals eventually in two thousand and two thousand and one season, and you know, you didn't play that much, but there were injuries and you backed up to Ken Bay a little bit. What was your experience like, uh, playing in the NBA Finals and put that whole playoff run. Yeah, that was. That was, you know, kind of a dream come true to make it to

the NBA Finals. And I hadn't played much leading up to that final series. I think I had gotten in once in the Milwaukee series, and I hadn't gotten in in the Indiana series, and I don't think I've gotten in the Toronto series. So I kind of just assumed that I wouldn't get in in the UH in the series against Milwaukee, and I think there was a time out where coach Brown drew up the play and I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been, And it's just kind of a reminder for young guys

to always be ready and be prepared. And I wasn't really listening as well as I should have been. And sometimes a coach at the beginning of the time I will say, you know, Tad get Geiger a tug tyrone, and then you're like, oh, I'm in the game. I better pay extra attention. But in this case, the substitution happened after the time out, and I didn't think I could go up to coach and say, hey, coach, yeah, can you run through that again? Yeah, I wasn't listening.

I'm gonna need you to drive up that play. So then I thought, you know, I should have gone to Eric Snow or somebody, and they said, what are we doing? But I just, you know, I thought most of my plays start with me on the right hand side of the court behind the three point line, so I'm just gonna go there. And I can hear a coach saying, no, Todd, not there, and so I'm like, well, maybe I'm supposed to be on the left side of the court. So I go to the left side of the court and

he says, no, Todd there. I'm like, I don't know where I'm supposed to be I have to get this rebound. I don't care, so I for some reason, I knew the shot would be missed from whoever took it, and I crashed the boards and I pushed everybody out of the way and I got the rebound because I had to make something positive happen. And then I laid it in and I got fouled, and I was like, Okay, I had to make something positive where I was getting

yanked out of this game. So then I was a little more prepared for every time out and now we make it to the NBA Finals, and I just wanted to do the best I could, and I thought check is better than me in every way. But I'm gonna try and run hard. I'm gonna try and beat them down the floor. I'm gonna try and give that extra effort, and if and when he blocks me, I'm gonna try and get it and I'm gonna try and go right

back up with it. So I just had an attitude of just trying to do just try and play within myself and do the things that I do and try and do them as best I could. And winning Game one was a huge thrill, and I think surprised a lot of people, and unfortunately we just couldn't couldn't keep

that momentum going. And the Lakers had a lot of a lot of clutch players, and so I think we were in a lot of those games and it came down to some key situations and whether it was Derek Fisher or Robert Orry or Rick Fox, they had a lot of veterans that calmly knocked down big shots and it was a little tough to rebound from that type of maturity that they had. We'll have more with Todd mccunnick in a moment, but during these unprecedented times, here's

a reminder that Wendy's is here for you. Wendy's nos cravings can happen anywhere, including wherever you are right now. So they've got your back with delivery. Get all your favorites delivered to the comfort of where you are right now without having to move a muscle other than your thumbs. Get your go to meal delivered today. Now back to more of my chat with Todd McCulloch, lo and behold you go back to the NBA Finals on the O two nets team that faced the Lakers with Jason Kidd

and that whole crew. What was that experience like? And then you're back in the finals against Shaquille O'Neil. Uh, you know, it was all great, except having to go up against Shaquie O'Neil again in the finals. But I was obviously thrilled to be on another team to go back to finals. I'd had such a great year, such a great time the year before, and then to go

back with these guys. I think many of them who was there their first finals appearance, and uh, you know, Jason Kidd was our leader, and we had some really good draft picks that year, and we all just kind of came together. A new offense had put into place, and we had a lot of a lot of movement, and I was a starter that year, so I got more minutes, and so I think it meant a lot to feel a little bit more a part of the team in term so production on the court. And unfortunately

the finals didn't go well. We didn't get that, we didn't get a win in the finals and we were swept for nothing. But we considered it a successful season to win the East, and unfortunately that Lakers team was just as dominant at the end of that postseason as

they were the year before. I remember a story shared where you were in the center jump circle with Shaquille O'Neal and he was telling you, I'm assuming just prior to the ball going up for an important finals game, about how one of his cars was retro fitted so he could fit in it. Do you remember that? Yeah?

I remember we had lost one of the games in New Jersey and it was we were leaving that while we lost all those finals games, and so we now were in the tunnel and the valet has brought my car around, which was a nineteen ninety seven Porsch at the time, and Shack was getting on the team bus and he sees me with this door open of this little porch about to get in, and you know, I'm still,

you know, kind of star struck a little bit. I mean, Shack is literally larger than life, and I have, you know, a lot of respect for him and that whole team. And he said, Todd, what are you doing? And I said, I'm just gonna get in my car and I'm going to drive home. He's like, that's not your car. Have the valet hasn't made a mistake. Have him go get your car. You don't fit in that car. And I was like, does was my car? Shack? I gotta go, and I get in the car and I drive away

because I don't know what to say NICs. Later we play them again and we're jumping center circle and right at the tip, be careful, and I'm thinking to be careful, Like what what does he mean be careful? He's liked, be careful driving home in that little car. I don't want to get hurt, and I was like, man, you're cool. So just he was looking up for my safety and he just thought it was a little unsafe for me to be driving this time a little portion. Eventually I

figured that out and uh and traded it in. So I did have the jump ball thing correct, but it came on the on the back end. And now you get traded, you get traded back to the sixers. And that's when the injury. You're you're having pain in your feet and you end up being diagnosed with something that your there had and that was, if I'm not mistaken, three French doctors as Charcott Marie tooth syndrome and you

had a foot neuropathy that ended your career prematurely. That had to be an incredible year, I believe, twenty nine years old a really tough thing to handle. How did you get through that? And tell us a little bit more. It was devastating to have a neuropathy and to have my feet not work the way that they should or the way that they did, um, and to you know, to make it to the NBA level. And then, you know,

my confidence wasn't great when I when I started. And then after being in the NBA for a few years and having some success and um and you know, making it to the finals as a starter, I started to think, like, you know what, I think. I think I do belong and I think I can play in this league. And I think I was improving and gaining confidence. And then just as that was happening, is when my foot problem started.

I and I couldn't play anymore, and so I was It was devastating in a lot of ways just to feel like I was, I was getting my feet under me, and then to have them fail on me and I just, uh,

you know, it was. It was a very difficult time, and I think the thing that helped get me out of it was was being able to work with you, and and to have Billy King give you an opportunity to jump on the radio, and it really kind of brought me out of a funk, and it made me realize I was still part of the Sixers family, and I was I had now the players as my old family and the broadcasters and the TV guys as my

new family. And over the next five years, I think it really helped me sort of transition out of, you know, just that that headspace of just really feeling feeling bad for myself and feeling down, and then to kind of bring me out of that and still be a part of the family. So it was it meant a lot to me to spend that time working with you, and I appreciate You're great and you're a great analyst. As I say, sometimes players don't realize what an expert you are.

I mean, just because again your experience, and you're a huge, intelligent person with a great basketball I que. And then you lend so much to to the broadcast and then you actually out there in the Pac twelve you I believe you did some studio work for the for the University of Washington for their games. Correct, it was for

the whole Pack ten. It was the through Fox Sports when they were you know, the station that was covering the Pac ten, and I did some pregame and some halftime and some postgame analysis for them in the studio first season when I when I first got back here, and then I think Fox Sports was absorbed or maybe became a different affiliate, and so I hadn't done anything with them after that, but it was it was kind of fun, well lasted, and I think I had the

confidence to do that because of the time that we'd spent together and hopefully some of the provements I was able to make in broadcasting, and you really do you see the game in a different way, And and I really had blinders on when I when I played at the center position. And while I think that that helped me in some ways, I had a pretty narrow focus. If I get the ball, post the basket, I need to go up strong and I need to finish it.

But I think when you're up there with you you see the whole court, You see the plays developed, and you really see it. I think, well maybe more from a point guard's court of view of just the way the game is moving. And I think I almost wish that I'd had that experience before. I think it would have made me a better player, just to really understand where I where I fit in and not just have

that that those that narrow perspective. But I think when you're when you're in the game, it's a little different than when you're when you're watching. But I did see the game with a different pair of eyes, and I think it helped me understand the game better. Your condition, this foot neuropathy doesn't go away. How are you doing now? I'm doing a little bit better. So I've I've constantly

been trying to find ways to reduce the neuropathy. And so I've done all sorts of laser treatments, and I've I've had I'd had surgery, and I've did some stem cells injections to try and regrow some of the myolency surul nerves, and you know, different different laser treatments and some of some of those things have have helped, and it's helped to improve some of those symptoms and reduce them and it maybe helps some of those nerves regenerate.

And so I still have neuropathy in both feet, but I think I think some of those things have been turned down a little bit on the knob, and so I'm a little bit more comfortable than I think I was when I was first diagnosed. And so I'm continuing. You know, that's been quite a while, and there's been some some medical advancements in science and treatments and things like that. So I'm always looking for ways to reduce

it further and try and eliminate it completely. But it's it's at a better place than it was, which which I think makes me a better, better father, and being able to be on my feet a little more and play with my kids and just be in a better headspace and not always be distracted by by the constant nerve pain. Good for you, glad for you now as

you see we're right by all these pinball machines. And as a professional athlete, having the game taken away, you have to find something to compete at the say that competitive bug you found of all things pinball? Tell us why and what that's all about. It's a great, great question. It's something that I've always enjoyed ever since I was a kid. I mean that the roller skating rink is a junior high kid, or the ice skating rink, or if I was getting my seven eleven slurpees, seven eleven

would have pinball machines. Or it was the eighties and there was arcades everywhere, so if I had a quarter or two in my pocket, I was putting it in a pinball machine. So I think that was already in me. And then when I became a net, I started collecting pin machines, and that collecting continued when I came back to the sixers. And so I'd always enjoyed the game. I wasn't really aware of a competitive avenue for it. I just it was just something that I love to

do and I love to share with people. And then a friend of mine, Rick Prince, from from Philadelphia, there was a guitar store, and I think it was in somewhere not too far from me, and I went in there to try out this pinball machine. And the guy said, and I said, and I realized that it's as much a social thing too. I love to play pinball with people or compete against people, and I want to share it. And so he's, this guy is gonna gonna turn on this pim machines are gonna play, And I said, you

want to play with me. Do you want to play doubles? And he's like, nah, it's not even my machine. My friend Rick is crazy. He lives down the road and he's got like fifteen of these in his house, and I said, what games is he? I was like, I don't know if you want me to call him? Hey, Rick, some tall guy in here wants to know what pin machines? Hey? So he runs down the line and it was basically the same titles that I had, and Rick is like me, and he wants to play with other people. It's more fun.

And so he said, hey, you guys want to come to my house right now and play it? And the guy's like, well, I gotta work. I'm at my job here. How about you, tall guy? Do you want to go to ricks? I'm like, yeah, this Rick guy sounds awesome. So I go to Rick's house and we play for the next three hours, and at the end of it, it was like, I don't want this to sound weird, but I've really enjoyed. I'm like, do you want to have a playdate to my house tomorrow? Come play michelmochies?

And he and I have been really good friends ever since, and so he introduced me to the world of competitive pinball, and ironically, Pittsburgh is kind of where a lot of those world class competitions take place, and so he introduced me the world of competitive pinball, and I was I

was sucked. It was taking this thing that I enjoyed and then being able to have it naturally keep score allowed me to It's a little bit of that competitive bug, but also in a really fun environment where it's almost like your opponents are not necessarily helping you, but they're kind of cheering you on in a sense, and there's a mutual respect and we're all just kind of against

the machine together. So I think I like the fact that it's everyone is kind of kind of rooting for the other people and there's a mutual respect, and so we are keeping score. It's pretty it's pretty classy. I like it. And you've purchased a few over the years, as we can see, and they never lose their value, and talking to in years past, there's like a little subculture, if you will, of people that own machines, and you're

you've become a big part of that, right. Yeah. It's a great community, and there's different communities around around the country and people are into different things. And I've got a group of car collectors that I meet with here on Bambridge Island and they're amazing and I love them. Sometimes in the car collecting community, it's like, Okay, you can come over or not, or we'll go to car and you can look at my car and you can

tell me how great it is. You can't sit in it, you surets that can't drive it, but I just want to tell me, like how awesome my car is. And the pinball community seems to be like, hey, you're in a pinball. I'm in the pinball. You need to come over. We need to play my game. I don't know you, but I like you already because you're in this game. And so I feel like it's this common It's like a little bit of a campfire that kind of brings people around. And as long as you're as long as

you're not a jerk, basically you're you're welcome. And it's it just seems to be this pretty open group of pretty harmless people that kind of just want to have fun. And they maybe they grew up in pizza places or pool halls or our kides, and really a bunch of kids that refuse to grow up, and I'm one of them, so I could say that. And so I think that's what I like, is just how how inviting the community is and how full they are with their skill set.

And so we kind of band together and we get it done, try and help each other keep the machines running well. Todd, I so much appreciate your time. You're still one of my all time page or a great guy. We wish you the best to Janna and your family a certainly during this time and throughout the rest of

the rest of these weeks and months going forward. Now, thanks to much, and you're my favorite as well, and it was an honor to be able to work with you and and maybe someday we can work together again. All right, Todd, thank you, Take care, Thanks for listening to Tom's talks with me Tom McGinnis on the seventy six ers podcast network. Check for new episodes every weekend.