TOM's Talks | Mike Fratello Looks Back on Coaching Doc Rivers

Atlanta that Fortello coached then NBA rookie Doc Rivers. He could see early on the leadership qualities of the seventy Sixers. New head coach Fortello shares what Doc Rivers will bring to the Sixers. He talks about his time in the mid seventies as an assistant coach at Villanova and his role as the lead analysts for NBC's NBA coverage when he was dubbed the Tzar of the teleostrator. Mike Fritello on Tom's Talks. Welcome to another edition of Tom's Talks.

We're joined by NBA coach Mike. Hello, and coach, thank you so much for doing this. We appreciate it to join us from outside Cleveland, Ohio and back in the in the mid eighties, you were the head coach at the Atlanta Hawks and now the sixties head coach Glenn Doc Rivers was a rookie in the NBA. If I'm not mistaken, you were in your first year with the Hawks.

What did you see and the young player from Marquette in Doc Rivers in the way of you know, like leadership capabilities as a rookie player with you know, a lot of confidence coming into your program with the Hawks at that time, Tom good to see probably if it's okay with you, give you some background on the situation how Doc wound up in the spot that he did.

When I got the Atlanta Hawks job, it was a team that was old, overweight, slow, but smart enough to know just how to win fifty percent of day games therefore qualify for the playoffs. And that's not what it was supposed to be all about. When we were at about thirty eight hundred people per game in the sixteen thousand seed Dominie, so we made a decision to start over again. So in that first draft, we decided we're going to try and come up with some young guys speed, quickness, athleticism.

We had one there that wasn't too bad that we had done a trade with Utah, and that was Dominique Wilkins. So we decided to keep Dominique and keep Tree Rollins. Probably a good decision with Nique. Don't you think what happened was when they hired me. Okay, there was an agreement made between Atlanta and Chicago that Atlanta would give Kevin Lockery, who was the head coach at the time,

permission to talk to Chicago about their opening that they had. Well, when they hired Kevin, they said, well, we'll come up with some compensation down the road. Both teams agreed on it. Now I get the job, and I had remembered reading something about compensation down the road. So I said to the general manager, when we get in that compensation and he goes, well, you know, we'll come up with like

a second round pick or something. I said, let's get it right now, because I'm thinking about I mean, I'll be there very long. Let's get what we can. So we get the compensation was a second round pick. And we're watching the names drop and as we had everything lined up by position, point guard, two guards, small forward, here's Doc Rivers, Glenn Dock Rivers, name dropping, and Doc had been promised by a club that he would be

picked in the top ten players. Well they didn't keep their word, and he's dropping and dropping and we get to pick I think it was thirty one in the second round, and here's Doc's name up there. I just said, look, this guy is six four strong. We have to take this guy. He's just like he's there. We gotta take him. So we take him. And I never forget how angry he was when I called to say, hey, Doc, congratulations and I am so upset. And they told me and I said, whoa Doc, I said, we picked you. I

love you. I said, come here him, show them that they were wrong, show him that you're a great player. And he eventually made the All Star team and led our team for seven years at the point guard position. So that's how we wound up as an Atlanta Hawk. And you could tell from the beginning we wanted to start him from day one, but we just felt we had a veteran there, Johnny Davis, and we were trying to move Johnny to another situation where he could win

some games. We knew we were going to start over and build with young guys. So we waited for that moment. The opportunity moved Johnny on and part way into the season, that's when Doc took over as our starting point guard. And you knew right away him he commanded the respect of his teammates because of his work ethic. It was not afraid to ask a question, a tough question, not afraid to say, hey, couldn't we do it this way instead of that way? What are the reasons we're doing

it this way? And I would not be surprised if Doc went home after practices and wrote stuff down and filed it away in his three ring notebook, knowing that someday I might like to go into coaching. And this is how it's turned out. When Doc was in Milwaukee, Don Nelson was the coach of the Bucks, and he's told the story before that, you know, even at Marquette as a sophomore in a junior and this would be

totally outlawed by today's NBA. And I'm sure it was even on the downlow back then, but he actually practiced with the Bucks and I'm sure that informed his decision a little bit about going to the NBA. But he already had the confidence to know that he in part play in the NBA based on that a little bit, and so you saw a bit of a more polished player than maybe a typical rookie player. Correct. Doc was the first one to tell me, look, I was this big when I was in high school. He said, I

was bigger than most of the guys. And he said, you know, I was blessed with a strong body in this six three six full frame that he had, so that gave a little bit of an advantage. And then he was my locomotive. He We had two point guards with that group. Doc was the the big, strong, slow fast break guy, and then I had Spud Web behind him, who was the sprinter. With that second unit, we had

ten deep with that group. So with Doc's group we would run and if Dominique was ever out in front, the idea was get him the ball in the open floor and let him go. So Doc would pitch ahead and Nick had the one man fast break, whereas Spud was so fast with the ball in his hand, he would just blow by everybody to create situations. But you know, Doc was that straight line take it to the basket overpowered people, and as he improved, and as his shooting

improved from the perimeter, we became a better team. That training camp that particular season was in Charleston, South Carolina, at the College of Charleston. John Crest opened up the gym for you guys, and you came in there. I remember Spud took it elbow from Tree. I was there too as a television reporter in Charleston, and cut his whole face hop and I'm like, man, at five to seven or whatever, this is probably gonna have this kid

all the time. It didn't really do that, but that's a pretty good combination in terms of Spud, Web and Doc and I just shared that story. But Rivers to come in there, and you had, like you said, some veteran players, and even though the leadership maybe would have grown and made itself evident later in his career, but just to have the moxie and the wherewithal to step into that group and as you say, it's said a certain point takeover as a point guard. That right there

showed that he was a leader with a lot of confidence. Correct. We had a built We had a young, wild group of guys when we first put everybody together, and you know, these were high energy, guys could go twenty four hours a day, and sometimes they did go twenty four hours a day and we paid the price the next night. But Doc was the one that could talk sense to

them and they would listen. They were all around the age at that time twenty two twenty three, twenty four years old, very athletic, and we were very deep as a roster. But Doc's voice was the one that in the locker room he could talk to them and saying, hey, listen, guys, hold on a second, we don't get too excited. Let's talkless over, Let's think about it. Here's the other side, here's why Mike is doing this, here's why the staff

wants us to do this. So I think because of the respect that they had for Doc coming out after his junior year, that they would listen to him, and most of the time to do with Doc would recommend it. So, as you said, he's been a quick study over the years, and he played for yourself and Larry Brown and pat Riley and learned a lot. And then when do you so? Maybe this is all that that body of work and experience led to him being a very good tactical coach

with the xs and os. Did you see that? And being a point guard or a quarterback certainly helps in that realm. Did you see that? Well? They've always said that point guards wind up moving on and becoming good coaches if they decide to stay in the profession. But when players are willing to ask questions, when they're not just standing there nodding their head, Okay, this is how we're doing it, When they're wanting an answer as to why we're doing it this way versus another way, it

probably means a couple of things. One, they probably had very good coaching before they got to you, so it's making them remember what they used to do or how they used to do it versus how you're telling them to do it now. And then maybe thinking down the road that someday I might want to get into this. Tell me why we're doing it differently, what makes you a way better than the other way? Or why are

we doing it this way tonight? Why are we changing tonight from what we did last week against this other team? All part of the inquisitive mind that makes the guys research study and trying to come up with answer. How do you think doc Rivers will do as the head coach of the Philadelphia seventy six ers. I've been asked that question a number of times now since Doc got the job, and I hope people understand what my answer means. I've said it depends what the players decide they want

to do. Doctor's going to give them everything that they will want and need to be a big time winning program. But it's how the players go about what he asks them to do that will make the difference. Doctor's gonna run good at stuff at the offensive end of the floor side and underneath that abouts three point plays, end of the game plays, Doc has a bunch of them. They execute him very well, and he pulls the right

card out usually at the right time. Defensively, they will be very solid because he's played for a number of coaches that have emphasized defense, and the NBA now has come to switching so much of the stuff that if you learn his techniques and you understand when time to switch and not time to switch, that will all simplify

the game for them. But if they don't want to put the work in, if they don't want to put the effort in, if they don't want to sacrifice beyond when they're on the practice court, do the film study, do the extra work, come in on the off days, get extra shooting in. Then they're not going to be a championship team. No matter who you have coaching him, the team is not going to get to the level that they could get to. So you have to be willing to accept the new staff coming in. You have

to be willing to accept what Doca is saying to you. Understand, he's done it, and he's done in a number of times that he's won an NBA championship as a player and as a coach. Well, now he's trying to take this and pass it on to you. And if you take it and run with it and do the things he said and put more than just an even mess effort out there, then you got a chance to be good. But if you don't buy in to what he's asking you, if it's false hustle, if it's false camaraderie, then it's

not going to mean anything in the end. Look what happened to the Clippers in the second round of the playoffs. All they talked about was how good the zoom calls were and how close they were, And that wasn't the truth. They were fooling themselves and Doc knew it. You could hear in Doc's press conferences. There was always something in the press conference, in his honesty that you knew something else was going on, that this wasn't one hundred percent.

And look what happens in the end, they get knocked out earlier than anyone expected. Great answer, Coach, This is kind of a general question. And again, you were an NBA coach of the ear and did it well both in Atlanta, Cleveland, Memphis. What does it take to be an NBA head coach? And I know some of it, but because and you just addressed a lot of it with what Glenn Rivers is going to bring to the Sixers.

But you know, because sometimes you get the guy at the end of the bar is like talking about maybe some of Phil Jackson's teams with Phobe and Shack or Michael Scottie, I could have coached them, And I'm like, I don't say that, but I want to say, you couldn't even gotten into the room. You would even be able to walk in the room. So you have to you have the players have to know that you're going

to help them. But respect like that to me you can't even get in there and look them in the eye unless they you have their respect, because that popical list or right in there, without question, the players must respect what the head coach is doing. As a head coach, I think there's a certain amount of confidence that you have to have. You have to have a game plan in your mind of how you teach coach basketball. How

much do you practice, how hard? How long? You have so many people now in analytics that are telling head coaches do this, do that, give them off tomorrow. Don't give them off tomorrow. You're practice them too long. You need to practice longer than not in shape right now, You and your own mind have to have an idea

of what's right what's wrong. And to me, I always felt surrounding yourself not only with better players because better players win more games in the NBA bottom line, but I thought surrounding yourself with the right staff was so important to me. I was blessed in all three places that I was a head coach. I thought I had outstanding assistance. I think eleven or thirteen went on to become head coaches, and that means they must be pretty good,

and that means they're helping you. So if you get guys around you that are helping you, giving you good ideas, good suggestions, if they're experienced, and if you're willing to listen to them, then you've got a chance of really turning out a pretty good finished product. I think Doc is more than willing to listen to his good assistance. He's out outstanding guys along the way, and now he takes over a new group that has to listen to

what Doc is preaching because it's pretty darn good. We'll have more of my conversation with Mike Fritello after this. In this time of social distancing, Nova Care Abilitation is offering physical therapy from the comfort and safety of your home through their new tell a Rehab program. Novacare will virtually bring their services to you so you may heal, build strength, and get back to the things you love.

Tell a Rehab let you easily connect with one of Novocare's licensed therapists through web based technology that is Hippo compliant. For more information, visit novacare dot com. Now back to my conversation with Mike Vitello. We're going to go into the wayback machine and go into the almost the beginning of your coaching career. After a stop here and a stop there, you ended up right outside Philadelphia here at Villanova with Rollie Massamino, and we're an assistant for the Wildcasts.

I know you stay close to the program through Jay. Talk a little bit about that time in your career and working for coach mass one of those special situations. And I never was a coach anywhere that I was that in my mind, I was saying, any year in two years, I want to be a head coach somewhere. I always felt that it would come along at the time and I would know it was the right time. So when coach mass had come after me the first time, I had made a commitment to a coach named Lou

camp and Ellie down at Madison College. He was starting the men's basketball program down there, a new situation, and Lou had said, if you come with me, the only thing I'm going to ask is that you stay for two years. Well, at the end of the first year, Roli gets the job of Villanova. Lou used to be Rollie's assistant in high school. So Rolie closed low and said, can I talk to Mike Fritello and Loui was like, well, you know Roli, and Rolie's like, ah, come on, Loui,

what are you kidding me? Go Nova at Madison College. So Luis said, okay, talk to him if you want. So Roli drove down to Madison College. We had dinner that night, breakfast the next morning. He said, what do you think and I said, Roly, I can't come. I said, I promised I would stay for two years. And I said. We had a handshake, and that with me. That's all you have to do. If I shake your hand, that's it for me. So Rolie was like, okay, bump in

the car and he drove back to Villanova. I stayed with lou two more years, and then Rolie lost a

couple of assistants, came back called again. I came up there and it was just three of the greatest years of my life to be with Rolie, to watch the basketball knowledge and his teaching ability, and to be able to take that Villanova program which had struggled for a couple of years, and be part of the turnaround which then eventually led to that championship that they wont I had moved on by then, But to me, it's an experience that I still stay in touch with Jay right

all the time. You know, Rolie had passed away and then Mary Jane, his wife passed away recently. But the children and their children, it's a family. Just like Jay preaches all the time. Villanova basketball is all about family, and that's what it is. I think when you go there and watch their program them, you see the type of young men that they have. My godson was picking between two schools and I said, you know, you need

to think about Villanova as one of them. So the third school came in, which is Villanova, and that's where he is right now in year number two, a manager for the basketball team on the coach right. So, like I said, there's a lot of ties and a lot of pride in that program. Absolutely well said. And I've seen your picture with a coach in the Davis Center. What And that was obviously a special time for you

there at Villanova. But if there was a time in your career where you could say, man, that was center cut right there, I wish I that that situation would stay that way. In other words, your fondest memory, whether it's the eighties or just that that period that was your sweet spot your group. You had some really good teams there in Cleveland. What would you reflect back on it as you think back and remember, man, that was an unbelievable It was maybe the prime of my career.

That was my best stop, if you will. There's probably two situations that jump out. The one in Atlanta where when we lost Game seven by two points to the Boston Celtics. That great Game seven with Larry Bird and Dominique Wilkins had the shootout between and one at thirty four thirty six and had forty six forty seven. I think Nick had at that moment. We were a young Hawks basketball team, and what happened is, you know, front office ownership and the excitement of wow, we got two

points away from moving on to the conference finals. Tried to do a little too much. Didn't realize how much chemistry meant to that team. So we added two pieces that were all star players, but we lost our chemistry, chemistry. It was like we had an all star team rather than having a real team and the stuff that goes into the team. And it was a shame because I thought we had a shot. Just be patient, just add a little piece here, a little piece here. Let these

young guys grow and develop. Another year or two, we may have been at the top of the Eastern Conference, but we elected to go for it at that moment, and you never know. Injuries could have knocked anybody out of the lineup. So I understand what they're thinking was at the time, but I wish I had that back

to do over again. And then we got to Cleveland, and after rebuilding twice because of injuries, we had a group that we started three freshmen, three rookies, and the fourth one actually did start, but I asked him to come off the bench. So we had four rookies that made the Rookie All Star Game at one time was the first time it had ever happened in the NBA, and it was Brevin Knight, Derek Anderson, Cedric Henderson, and

Zudrunas Ilgauskas were the four rookies. And we put Sean Kemp with that group, and they won forty seven games with four rookies, Sean Kemp and Wesley Person playing the majority of the minutes. I said, this group we got a bright future, and unfortunately we had a lockout season. Sean Kemp got hurt and that was the end of broke his foot. That was the end of my career in Cleveland, which was a shame because I thought that group could have really gone on if we kept them

all together and done a lot of damage at ease. Well, and this is obviously speaking to you, but to me, and that specific time that you're talking about, you guys against the Sixers won like three years worth of games, but it was twelve or so games, ten, eleven, twelve in a row, thirteen in a row, and then the Sixers got Larry Brown and the Sixers turned the tables on Cleveland. And obviously it has a lot to do with rosters, but that was to me a snapshot of

coaching matters. You ran a great program, very structured discipline, and then need I say more, but Larry Brown was a Sixers coach and that just showed me. Right, they flipped like we got Larry Brown and all of a sudden we won like three years games in a row against Cleveland. Speak to that a little bit about you know where coaching can make a major impact with an

NBA team. Well, I think if you remember that one of those first games that they won, Brevin Knight, who was our starting point guard, had gone ten for ten or eleven for eleven from the free throw line and got to the line at the end of the game with a chance to win and missus a foul shot. So the Sixers escaped there, and then the Sixers stole Tyrone Hill from us. Okay, well, Tyrone became a part of that Sixer team that went to the finals, which

one of the all time great favorites of mine. Tyrone Hill, how he played the game, came to work every day, did his job really terrific big man defender. It was a perfect compliment to the other pieces that Larry had put together. And then Larry Hall of Fame coach and did an outstanding job with that group. So there were a couple Syrisks in there, Okay, don't forget. I think it might have been the broadcasters jinx I put the whammy on Breven. He also had ten steals in a

game against the Sixers. And that ninety four ninety five season you speak of a Tyrone got named the Eastern Conference All Star Team and he was so humble he didn't want to go because he felt like some of your other team players with the calves should have gotten to go. Not too many guys would make that statement about not wanting to go to the All Star Game because his teammates weren't able to go. That is special. Special guy. Tyrone came to work every day. I used

to laugh. We had a thing with the team, the Tyrone. There was never a happy day for Tyrone. If everything went well, that was no good. There had to be something wrong with the day, so then Tyrone could move on with everything else. He walk in and we'd say what's wrong today? And he said, what do you mean, Well, something's got to be wrong otherwise you know it's not you, Tyrone coach. And I mean this in the most complimentary way. So eventually you transition into tell vision and again you

went back and coached at Grizzlies. But it came really easy too. I mean, you know, the game, great personality, It lent itself really well to this second career for you. Is that how you see it? I was just blessed, you know, right place, right time when NBC outbid CBS for the rights to NBA basketball. I had just lost my job in Atlanta and NBC had never done NBA basketball before. So the voice of NBC right away was

Marv Albert. Then they got Bob Costs to commit, and I knew the two guys that they wanted to be the broadcasters for the games with Pat Riley and Chuck Daily, both of whom had stepped down from their respective jobs in Detroit and LA. So when they brought me in for an interview, they said, listen, just so you understand, it's strictly, strictly to be the sideline guy. Okay. I had nothing else going on, So I interviewed in the studio of NBC sitting on the edge of a chair

because they had no open offices. And the guy sitting on the chair next to me on the edge of it was a guy named Bob Costas, and Bob interviewed me for twenty minutes on camera. And as we're going along and I'm waiting to hear back from them, I'm good friends with pat Riley, good friends with Chuck Daily. So pat wants to be in the studio. They're like, well, how can you be in the studio. You've never done the studio, Patson. We'll get somebody good next to me.

So Bob Costas, pat Riley wind up in the studio, Chuck Daly on the first sit down negotiating thing, Chuck says, let's just get to the bottom number and then, you know, get it over with. When they gave him the bottom number, he said, I'm going to go back to coaching. So Chuck takes the new Jersey next job instead. Right, Well, by default, guess who ended up sitting next to Marv Albert And we had a wonderful three years to get at NBC and he's still to this day one of

my closest friends. Right. I always say, like, you're not getting that guy, these former coaches and players without a certain number. And obviously the late Chuck Daly spoke to that and you and Marve as you say, you a, you had a really good relationship. He dubbed you the Tsarre of the Telestrator and that came across during the course of the game, and that must have been fun.

I'm sure you know you didn't maybe get the sweaty palms that you did when you were pacing the sidelines as a head coach, but to be a network announcer when the NBA was maybe at its peak, that must have been pretty cool. It was special because I respected more for the fact that he was as prepared as you're ever going to find anyone for a game. He left nothing unturned. He had notes all over the place going into the game, way too much to use during the course of the game. But that's what more is

all about. He'd rather have way more than have too little. And he was not afraid to help me and teach me. There are a lot of guys who sit there, maybe because the guy was a head coach in the league or a former player, they don't want to say anything to him to try and help him because they feel he'll take it the wrong way. I think our relationship with us that Marvin mill I could use help. I was willed and wanted him to help me things that he would notice, things that he would see during the

course of the game that afterwards we'd talk about. And I had that great respect for him because of that. And on the other side, I think he felt that this guy knows what he's talking about. When we come to basketball and xs and ohs and drawing on the telestrator, which became like a big thing for everybody that you're the czar the telestrator. That's what coaches do. Coaches draw in time out. It's coaches on pens and papers and

diners and restaurants, draw plays. You're always drawing, so when it came to using the telestrator, if you didn't get a tellustrator that had a bad attitude, that day right stuff to do and you enjoy doing it. Coach. You grew up in New Jersey, Hackensack, New Jersey, and I live in New Jersey, and I don't know if i'd consider myself a Jersey guy. I was kind of a

Midwestern guy. Do you and I say that about Jersey because it comes with a certain attitude, Like my wife is a Jersey girl and she won't deny that that comes with a bit of a nice, aggressive, festive, feisty attitude. Does Jersey ever leave you? No, I'm very proud. I've always said on speaking to groups, I want to ask the question. If I had to do over again, I'd be right back in North Jersey, up in Hackensack, because

for me, it was a cultural melting pod. The schools that I went to, there was a little bit of everything. In the schools. You had to figure out how to survive and get through the elementary school, junior high schools, into the high school. The one big high school we had in the city, which is just ten, eleven and twelve grade. And the people and the coaches. I had such outstanding coaches that I was exposed to along the way, and then the people that we grew up together, and

still to this day. The group might be sixteen, twenty twenty five guys that stay in touch with each other every chance. Yeah. When I would go up and do the games for the Jersey Nets or the Brooklyn Nets, if I got in a day earlier, I could stay a day longer, I would and would have to get together with them. So, yes, you're right, and Jersey girls can be tougher than Jersey guys, believe me, Okay, I know definitely. Well, Coach, I thank you so much. We

appreciate your time. Stay well and we'll see you down the road here in the NBA. Thanks for having me on, and good luck to the Sixers this year. Thanks for listening to this edition of Tom's Talks. Look for new episodes throughout the offseason. If you like what you're hearing, consider subscribing to this seventy six podcast network feed or giving us a follow wherever you get your pods. And if that happens to be on Apple Podcasts. We'd love

for you to give us a rating. I'm Tom McGinnis, talk to you down the road.