TOM's Talks | Fran Dunphy

head coach in college basketball in Philadelphia. Part of the record, he won five hundred and eighty games. His teams won twelve regular season conference championships and made seventeen appearances in the NCAA Tournament. He received the Dean Smith Award and the John Wanamaker Award here locally one of the most humble and competitive people I've ever met. Here's my conversation with coach, and welcome once again to another session of

Tom's Talks. Coaches, I've said before, at least written to you at one point, it's rare that a man is you know, his reputation precedes him in the most positive ways, But you're one of those guys that I mean that sincerely in terms of your reputation in your character, and it's just everyone thinks so high love you, so I really thank you for doing this. And how's it going during this period? I know you were teaching a leadership course at Temple. How are you doing right now? We're

doing great. Time, to be honest, I've kept myself busy in a lot of different ways, a lot of these kinds of things, a lot of calls with my former players and both from Penn and Temple. What's been great. Probably watching too much TV, reading a lot, walking, a lot, plan some really big gulf on occasion, but really keep myself busy. And my wife's ready to kick me out, ass I'm sure, But but all's good. We're really very

very very lucky, very lucky group. Right. It is a difficult time for all of us, and part of your deal. A lot of people, at least basketball fans may not be aware that you taught all those years at Penn leadership in a business school and even at Temple here over the last year, and you finished up your class all the last six or so weeks over zoom like this.

What was that like? And what's it been like to be part of the student body and be a professor all these years while being the basketball coach at those two schools. Well, I certainly wouldn't masquerade as a professor. I was sort of a guest lecturer each class, is what I would like to term it, because I was in class with a professor, So it was a team teaching kind of thing, and that's made so comfortable for me.

But I was grateful to be in the classroom. I thought it gave me a different look of the student body, gave me a different look of what our players were going through, and it also gave them a different look for me. They looked at me in a different way, and I hope that the faculty looked at me in a different way too. That I just wasn't in my office over in the in the basketball area, and that was my only concern that I was actually concerned about

everybody who was at the institution. Let's face it, we're nothing without our students, and so there's no need for me to even have a job without the students. So it really was great. As far as the Zoom was concerned, I was worried about it, to be honest, with a ton, but it was really comfortable. We have eighteen kids in the class, the professor and I we had our twenty faces on the screen, and it was terrific. It really, you know what we did the first couple of classes.

We spent a lot of time talking to them about the world today and what they were going through. And nine of them were seniors and that right of passage was sort of taken away from them, that they couldn't have fun with their classmates over the last couple of months and do graduation and those kind of things. So we really got a lot out of that, just really listening to them. And there's no doubt that I learned way more than they learned from me. I learned from them.

They're tremendous kids, and I each and every class that I had, I was overwhelmed by the engagement of these students, that how much they wanted to learn and how much they could actually teach each other. And I think that's really what we accomplished. And you did a lot of class work over the years. I mean, you got your masters at Villanova, obviously, you got your degree at LaSalle. During your time at American, you did so much work on your doctorate. So you weren't just a basketball coach

rolling into a classroom. You were a highly educated, prepared as you say, maybe not professor, but you brought a lot to the table, you know. I hope I brought a lot of life lessons to the table. So all of the mistakes that I made, of which I made many, but I just think that's what you can lend to

a particular group. You know. We might talk about managing people, you know, and I would always use the example of managing down with my staff or everybody within the staff, all the players, the managers that we had that worked for us. But my job was also to manage up with my relationship with the ad and the president board of trustees. My manage with my job was to manage to the left with the fans, the students, to get lums. My manage was to I needed to manage the right

with the media. And then you know, there's a lot of things you need to do. You need to get back, you need some charity work within your your resume and uh and you speaking engagements and those kind of things. So there's a lot of stuff to do. But you got to and you have to manage all that, and above all, you've got to when you come home at night, you've got to turn all that off. And you've got to be the best husband, father, friend that you can be.

And uh, and it's it's all encompassing. But I loved every second of it. I loved being busy, and I loved doing as much as I possibly could. So it's been an unbelievable life. Well, I was going to use this line regarding the fact that you've worked or did something at nearly every Big five school, but I'm going to invoke the late great Dick Enberg and that you touched them all right there and what it takes to be a well rounded, successful person, and that defines you

in so many ways. And people that knew you as a basketball coach all these years, and a guy at a certain age would know that you were a highly competitive basketball player at Las Cell. I mean having grown up in Drexel Hill and going to Saint Dorothy's and whatnot, Malvern Prepp. But then when you go to the Cell, you play for Tom Gola, the great Kenny Dirette from Pittsburgh and your team at one point, if I'm not mistaken, sixty eight sixty nine, one loss, twenty three and one,

ranked second nationally in the country. It must have been an incredible experience with the Explorers in your college basketball career. Touch on that, well, it was phenomenal. The guys that I got a chance to play with, all five of them, all the starters that were in that sixty eight sixty

nineteen were fantastic college basketball players. Kenny Durrett was a cut above, to be quite honest with him, if he had not suffered a pretty severe knee injury back in his senior year, then he would I think he had been a twelve to fifteen year pro and and been unbelievable player. But the technology in those days just didn't allow for those aco repairs to be be of it. Just it was so consequential what happened to him, and

so it's it's hard. It was really hard. And then Larry Cannon was an unbelievable player and he got he got hurt, He had plebitis that really put him off stride. Fatty Taylor probably played as much as anybody did in the pros. And then Bernie Williams was another guy who was terrific college basketball player and guy named stand let. Dar Chick was Bobby Jones before there was Bobby Jones, but he just didn't and he got drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks, but didn't want to do it as much

as maybe we all wanted it for him. And there was a guy and he made Chesney who came off the bench who was a great, great player as well. Ironically enough, I just got a call from Bobby Cremmens, who was obviously made his mark at the college coaching level, but he was on that team from South Carolina to beat us that year, and he's writing a book, so he called me to get some background information from our standpoint what we felt about it. It was really interesting

to talk to him about it. It was a tough loss for us, but all of us who think we don't look back and what was me kind of kind of group on this. You know, we just got beat that night. And actually Tom goal I mentioned it to Bobby that Tom took all of the the not the credit, but the to do for us not winning that night because we didn't. We felt like we should have pressured

them and picked the pace up of the game. They held the ball, there was no shot clock or any of that, and a guy named John Roach was instrumental in their teams. But that was that particular game, and we had some great, great wins. But we still stay together. We talk all the time. I'm on the phone with Larry Cannon once a month. But unfortunately Kennedy to write us left us ass Pattie Taylor and as says Bernie Williams, and but the rest of us stay in touch, and

I'm grateful for that. When teams win, they stay together. In that famous line of Fred Shiro that I throw out to all of these players that I have, you know we win tonight, we walked together forever. And that's I think what happens to all these great, great teams, right, That's I think what young players need to realize that it's about shared sacrifice, playing together, achieving something together in this world of highlights and you know this, that and

the other. I think that's really missed. And I know you know that you went to a law assistant. You spent fifteen years as an assistant coach walk us through that. Some of that was at Army, as I mentioned Americans, some other stops along the way. As a guy trying to put the foothold if you will on your coaching career. What were those years as an assistant? A decade and a half? Like, well, they were great in that I

learned from some really terrific people, you know. So I learned initially from Dan Docherty, who was my high school basketball coach at West Point in that one year that I spent there. And then I was a high school basketball coach for four years, which was terrific. I learned a lot from that as well. Then I went with Lefty Urban for a year and left left these first year at Lasale and left these last year at Lasale. The five years in between I was with Gary Williams,

who taught me a lot. I was with a guy named tep Scott who was terrific as well, both at American University. And then I came back to work for Speedy Morris as well. And then I got a chance to work with Tom Schneider at Penn for one year, and then he decided to leave to go to Loyal Baltimore, and I'm sitting there and it was all about timing, it was all about good fortune. They gave me the job.

I don't think I was the first, second or third choice, but I got the job, and one of the things a story that I tell all the time, and I'll throw it out. I try to make it as quick as I can. I signed a three year contract at Penn. I would have taken a three day contract. I just wanted the gym. The first year, I didn't think. I thought most assistant coaches think they know everything, and I was one of them. And then when I got the

head coaching job, I've realized I didn't know anything. So our first year we were twelve and fourteen, second year or nine and seventeen, and I go in to see my boss at the end of the second year to go to my third and last year of the contract. He slides this piece of paper in front of me and I said, I looked at it. I said, something wrong with you? He said, what are you talking about?

I said, well, you are aware that we went twelve and fourteen and nine and seventeen, right, And he said yeah, no. I said, well, this as a new three year contract. Why are you doing this? He said, well, I like how you work. I like your staff. I think you guys really work hard. You got a plan. You've recruited some really good kids. The kids have done a really good job. You'll be fine. The next year we turned

around a little bit. Sixteen and ten, we're starting to get our act together, largely because of Jerome Allen, and then Matt Maloney comes in to join him, and Ara Bowman comes in and so so with that we then the following three years we don't lose a league game because we have really good players, you know. And but here was this guy, Paul Rubinkaan was my ad and he saw something in me that I really appreciate it.

And I've never forgotten that. I call him all the time and remind him of how good he was to me and how important he is to me as a human being. So I think those are important things to do. It. You got to tell people how you feel about them, probably not on the negative side of things, but how you feel about them. What these people have done to you, you know, tell him you love them, tell them what

they've done for you. Right, So, Matt Maloney, and as you say, Jerome Allen, Many or Benny Pierce, you got fourteen to oh three years in a row, twenty two wins, twenty five, twenty six, all the way to ninety four ninety five. That was a pretty good chunk there. You had to feel pretty proud of those Quaker teams. Yeah, very much so, great group of guys and again terrific

buy in by them. And again when we when I talk about Jerome and Matt, as good as they were on offense, they were unbelievable in defense or big guys never got in found because none of the other guards ever got to the rim, and they were just that good of keeping the ball out of the lane. So they were again tremendous by and they didn't care who got the credit. They just wanted to win. And they certainly drug us too many victories with the IVY League

and no athletics scholarships. You know, like one of these books sitting around here by John Feinstein is about the last hans about the Patriot League. Was their purity in the IVY League, like how we would maybe look at it from the outside and that these were totally like student athletes. Um, did you find that? I mean, that's just the whole University of Pennsylvania and that the great reputation of basketball the Cholestra is that how you would

define it? In part YEA would although I would say to you that most of those guys that came into play basketball, they played, they were basketball players. They thought of themselves as really good students, but they really wanted to be known as basketball players too. It's really important to them. That's that's how they spoke oftentimes, you know, did they speak through their grades and their academics and how they did, But but they really wanted to be

known as good basketball players. And I think that's what made each group successful, and they were. We had like four different groups of guys that were really highly successful at Penn and they stayed the other and they really they wanted to be known as a great team in addition to being great basketball players. So I was really fortunate that way, and they all did well in school.

I think one of the great things about college athletics as it has developed over the years is the academic advising has gotten so good that I might even have been a good student when I was at SOUD many years ago if I'd had the kind of help that they have today. And I think it's a great thing. I think it's really helped college athletics. And I give the NC double A a a great credit for that, by the way, because they've laid the law down, so we can't be having kids that are just not getting it

done in the classroom. And so if you were not doing well academically, you might suffer a loss of a scholarship or some penalties of that nature. So I give the NC double A a a lot of credit here, But as much as they were great students, they also felt the need to be very good basketball players as well. We'll have more of my conversation with coach Fran Dumpy in a moment. In this time of social distancing, Novacare Rehabilitation is offering physical therapy from the comfort and safety

of your home. Through their new tell a Rehab program, Novacare will virtually bring their services to you so you may heal, build strength, and get back to the things you love. Tell a Rehab let you easily connect with one of Novacare's licensed therapists through web based technology that is Hippo compliant. For more information, visit novacare dot com. Now back to my chat with Fran Dumpy. Eventually, in two thousand and six, you go to Temple and replace

John Cheney. Just talk a little bit about that, because obviously Temple basketball and you had varied a lot of success there, initially in the A ten and then the AC. But that transition from Pen to Temple for you, it was interesting, to say the least time. I was sort of petrified, to be honest with you, But I did talk with coach Cheney. He gave me his blessing is okay, So that was very important. And I told the story all the time about about Mark Tindale, who was ineligible

to play right away. He was our most prominent player at that point and so my first team for the first six games, he's going to be ineligible. But what we talked about with Mark was when he was ineligible, they reported at the Daily News, the Inquirer, Comcast Sports that ESPN had a ticker on the bottom Mark Tindale

ineligible to play the first six games. So in that first semester he took four courses, he got four bees, did a great job, got eligible again, and you know it was in the inquire in the Daily News, on Comcast Sports, then on esp NO. All right, so that

was the lesson. You know, if you don't do your work, people are going to report on it, and you're not going to get reported on the great things that you have done here so and then he came back and we struggled a little bit that our first year and then we won the conference title and second year I Deante Christmas was an unbelievable player. Leboy Allen kind of solidified everything for us. I think you're getting my drift. When we got really good players, that makes you a

really good coach. And that's really what it is. I mean, it is about the players and what they do, and if you can help in the buy in, then then I think you've got something really strong. And I always felt like if the leadership within the group was great, then we were going to be pretty good. Coach. You've been nice enough over the years to let me into watch your practices. I love hoops. It's just a treat

to be in there. And if somebody's watching on TV or they're in the upper reaches of the Leo Coors Center or the Polestra and may see the coach clappington and all that, they don't see the fire and the competitive drive that all of you coaches have your players at which you're trying to instill in to the lay person, Like try to describe where that comes from. That ultra competitive and you're not a moment, but you had it

as much as anybody. Walk us through that a little bit. Yeah, I don't think you have a lot of control over that time that you are what you are as a coach, you are as what you are as a human being, and again a husband, father, or whatever. You want to be the best at at it what you can be. You know, it was funny when I first thought I was going to be a head coach. I said, I'm watching, you know, the guys that were doing it pretty good. Schevski was coming into his own and watch what he's doing.

And he's sitting on the bench going two or three or one or whatever. That's pretty easy. And you could just sit there. Well, I couldn't sit there. I had a stand and kneel and do what I And even when I do sit down, I'm popping back up again. You know, you have no control over that. That's you know. You see, guys, I've watched Jay right, he's up and down the side. He logs a few thousand miles a year up and down the bench, you know. So, but

we're all different. We're all and we all do different things to make us better as a as a basketball coach. But we're all trying to learn all the time, you know, And I think that's what happened. I would be the Sixers organization. You would see me at six Ers practices on occasion, every one of those coaches from the Sixers welcomed the college basketball community in to watch practice and then would sit with the actors. What do you think it is? I actually had Larry Brown one day say

to me, how would you guard that screen? Enroll? You're Larry Brown, I'm just playing old friend. Don't they just a regular Joe here? But he wanted to he wanted to engage, He wanted to talk about it, you know, and they all do. It's just that we all are like that. We just is there. If there's a special sub special thing we can get to make us better coaches, that's what we're trying to do, right, And you'll have to drive to do. Yeah. But but the craziness is

it's in you. There's nothing, nothing you can do about it. You gotta love them, baby. You mentioned Coach k He was on a recent radio program here in Philadelphia and he mentioned that you guys are long time friends. Speak to that relationship. Well, yeah, I tell the story a lot.

I was just about ready to get orders. I went to Fort Dicks, says, ah, my basic training, and then I went to Ford Ord, California for my advanced infantry training, and I was shooting eighty one millimeter mortars and I was just about ready to get orders to Vietnam or Germany,

which the war was winding down a little bit. So this captain comes down and says, you get a phone call in my office, and said, okay, I get there and it's half Fisher from the All Army basketball team, and he says, you want to try out for the team. I said, yeah, I'd like to try that. So that I was at Ord and it's right down the right down the highway from Presidio where the the practices were going to be. So I took the bus up the next day. The first person I see you getting off

the bus as Mike Sizewski. So I'm you know, twenty two, twenty three years old or whatever. And we start playing ball and I make the team. He's on the team, he's and he's already a coach. Whenever you would come off off the court onto the bench. All right, here's what I say this, this and this, and it was always spot on. But he was great at what he did, and so we've just kind of stayed friends over the years. We've played each other seven and eight times and we

did win one game when I was at Temple. We had a great win at the at the Wells Farbo and so it was great, great, And he's been a great resource and reference for me over the years. And again, it's not it's one of those relationships that you know, the the friendship is there, but it's not like you're talking once a week. You know, you may talk twice a year, but it's there, and it's meaningful that bond is forever, both as a coach and being in the

service as well. Absolutely so, you spent give or take thirty five years as a coach, twenty as a head coach and is that right, and then fifteen as an assistant. And my question is this past year, I mean, how much did you miss it? We spoke about the competition, which is what draws and the relationships and whatnot. It had to be a void. How much did you miss it? Yeah?

I missed it. I would be lying if I told you that, But I missed a competition piece you know, and I wanted to go to every Temple game I could. I made just about all of the home games. One last one I didn't make because I LaSalle, my alma mater, actually gave me a chance to do some video streaming,

and so I did that last game. But I watched as much as I could a Temple basketball because I wanted to just show my support, not only to Air and his staff, to the players, you know, because those are guys that I was highly involved with for previous years. So that was great. But I probably saw more games than you could ever imagine. High school, I was out every night when I wasn't at my wife's and you sure you don't have a game to go to them, you know. But I tried as much as I could

to fill that void. And I did some teaching, obviously, and I'd never in the spring before, so I thought in the spring this year. And then of course, the virus came along and a short season does all. And but I watched as many six Ers games as I could and studied them, and uh, you know, I love them. I loved I was dying to see the Phillies play and those kind of things. But I saw lots and lots of games. Like my buddy Joe my Hele like.

I saw him play at Princeton, saw him play at Delaware, would have seen the Drexel game, but Temple played that night. But it was you know, all those kind of things. John. I watched Matt Langos game Colgate at Lehigh, Colgate at Lafayette. So I made a lot of games, but I loved every second. I'm hoping to do more this year and see as much as I possibly can. Well, I gotta ask you, could you see yourself going back and being a coach somewhere if the situation where somebody thought I

could help, Yeah, I would certainly listen. Do I have to have it? No? Probably not. I think I got enough going that I can that I can do other things. But if somebody thought I could, I was worthwhile and would be meaningful to me to be in an organization, in a university or whatever. I would never say never. It's not something that that I go crazy over. At this point. I'm I got a lot of things going on, and sitting here today with you is one of them.

I enjoy it and I appreciate the friendship more than anything. Appreciate Luke as well. That's cool, and that's my son. And you've been so gracious and that's part of you. You're so generous with people. I remember Phil Markelly telling that story a few years ago where his grandson invited you to his birthday party and you went and you would romping around the backyard. I mean, that's you're you

are priceless. And the philanthropic effort and reaching back into the community, whether it's coaches versus cancer or any number of charity causes, speak to that if you would, well, I think it's it's an important feature of what we are as coaches in Philadelphia specifically, they give you these opportunities. Well it's not just to roll the ball at and coach your team. It's to do all sorts of other things.

And if somebody thinks that your time is worthy, then fill that time and give people your time's you can. There's a there's a lot of people that can't give a lot, but they can give their time. And if you can do that's the most precious commodity we have. If you just give support, you give that time, and I think you're you're fulfilled as a human being. And that's what we all want. I mean, whenever we finish our jobs during the day, we then go home at

night and we give ourselves a grade. I think, how was my data? Did I do a good job that I treat that player that I had he had a difficult time. Did I do a good enough job with him that I make the right move in the game, that I was good enough as a teacher today that I and I answer the student's question. That's one of my friends ask me for something that I come through. You know, I think we grade ourselves every single day, and I think for the most part, I've had good

grades as a human me. But there's certainly some days that I've screwed up and I didn't like myself for that, and I wanted to redeem myself. But I do believe that that's what's Self satisfaction is the thing that we're all looking for. And if we're good to others, then I think your self satisfaction grade should be way up there. And that's the most important thing. It's not about you, it's about everybody else around. Well said, great, that is

really nice. That's exactly how what defines you. And I can't thank you enough. I'll wrap it up here. I so much appreciate our friendship and your time, and I know you still have a lot to give in many areas, and we're lucky to know you and have you in our area. And it's been great over the years to watch a coach and get to know you. I appreciate. I'm gonna leave you with one quick story if I can. I've been telling this story all the time and it's nothing to do with me, which is really why I

like telling the story. So I went to see Joe Mahleck's team practice at Drexel and and at the end of the practice, this is before the before the game, the end of the practice, I said to him, who's your best leader? He said, well, it's this kid, Deshure buoie kid from New York. Want you to meet him. So de Shure comes over. We talked for two minutes tops he walks away, and josephs, let me tell you

this story. They were the ad at Hofstra had gotten together all the student athletes, so all the coaches, some of the administration, and brought into health and physical and mental health expert, a wellness expert, and so he's in a room probably four hundred people and really gets heavy in the middle of his talk, and he talks about suicide and so that anybody here contemplated it. And one kid in the far side of the room raised his hand said, you know what I have to say that

that I have with that. The kid, the sure Buoye, is all the way on the other side of the room. He now walks across the room, looks at this kid right in the eye and then gives him a huge hug. And I'm overwhelmed by that. And so then the the speaker says, oh, you two guys know each other, and Sure Boy says, now, we've never met, but we're going to be friends from now on. And the power in the empathy that this guy. I looked at this kid and said, who are you? Who as your parents? Who

are the people who renting your mentors? How have they they have guided you to do this to feel that way about other people? And he and then I go watch the game on Saturday. That was a Thursday game. I go to watch the Delaware game on Saturday. With eight minutes to go in the first half, this kid has two points in the scores time with three minutes to go in the game, Joe's taking them out because they're up sixteen and he's got like twenty four or

twenty six points. Just the leadership just kind of oozed out of him, making plays, making his teammates better, taking care of the defensive end. It was just heartwarming to see how this kid had followed through on the basketball side, but what he had done that night to his fellow students athletes, How can you ask for anything more than that? That kid, he's just empathetic like crazy, and then just a beautiful thing to listen to to watch to see

how this kid had come through for his university. Interesting, you're the best coach. Thank you so much. Stay safety well. We can see you all the best. I hope I see you soon. I hope I hear you soon. Thanks for listening to Tom's talks with me Tom McGinnis on the seventy six Ers podcast Network. Check for new episodes every weekend.