TOM's Talks | Ed Pinckney

Stevenson High School. Then, in nineteen eighty one, along with other star recruits Gary McLean and Dwayne McClean, Pinckney chose to play for Roddie Massamino at Villanova University. Here in Philadelphia and really nationally. He's remembered for his role in one of the greatest upsets in college basketball history. He was the most outstanding player in the nineteen eighty five NCUBA Tournament. Pinckney and the Villanova Wildcats knocked off Patrick

Eween and Georgetown to win the tournament championship. Pinckney's pro career has taken him far and wide across the country and the NBA, playing coaching and now scouting for eleven different franchises. Here's this week's edition of Tom's Talks with number fifty four, Eddie Pickney. All Right, welcome to another edition of Tom's Talk, and we have a long time

friend of the program. If this was SNL or a late night talk show, we'd say, Eddie, this is an eighteen time you've been on the show, so we really

appreciate it, so Ed, thank you. And now you're working with the Houston Rockets as a scout, and as we visit, you're going through the process of interviewing college players over zoom and that's got to be a whole different process than what it would have been in years past, where maybe in Chicago you'd meet at the pre draft camp or bring a guy in for a workout and talk with him afterward. How has that change and what's that

process like? No, it's I mean, it's been a scramble of sorts for everyone, you know, just trying to get in front of the players in any way that you can, just so you can get a feel for them through this particular draft process. You know, I know that in the past, what's the norm is that you kind of see these guys a number of different times the initial college watch when you actually go to their campus or

another campus and you see them. Then you get a chance to see them in Chicago for the pre draft camp, and that's a whole other process that you get an opportunity to spend some time with them, and then if you like them enough, you typically bring them to your facility and then you get another work out in conversation with them. But you know, many of the agents are limiting the amount of time that you can spend. The league is also mandating the amount of time that you

can spend on these you know, these video interviews. So you've got to try to deep dive in as much as you can with your questioning when you have these guys and you spend the time with them on these zoom chats. And that's been an interesting process because the questioning has got to be Taylor. Taylor made to to really deep dive into, you know, their thoughts and how

they feel about themselves. Are some of the questions, like what a typical interview in any profession would be, like tell me a time where you've failed, or are they more like John Bruten's quarterback camps with you know what happened here? Tell me that? Or and I know some of the questions are like, all right, you know these are nineteen twenty year old men. Sometimes like who's coming

to town with you? If you if you come, like give us a general feel for what some of the question the line of question is no, you know, I think it's a mixture because of the makeup of your scouting staff and of course your general manage or you all try to come to an agreement on what the questioning will be like and you know, some things that are really important to you so you can you know, come to a decision on whether or not you like

the player. But you know, we we here in Houston just tend to air on the side about who's close to you and your decision making process. I think that's really important, um, for the God, for us, for our staff, Um, you know, just to get a feel for you know, how you think you know, how you would react, uh in an NBA environment. And that's what we tend to

focus on a lot when we when we do these interviews. So, um, there there is some general questioning, but um, you know they're also is some questioning to the athlete about how they how they actually see themselves in an NBA environment. Your most recent coaching stops were Minnesota that year in Denver and Chicago. But I want to go back in

a long time with Jay Wright as well. I want to go back though to your playing career, and again we're going to get into the National Championship Game, which everybody here in the Philadelphia area and nationally remembers the big upset in nineteen eighty five in Lexington, Kentucky over Georgetown and one of the great sports upsets in the history of the game in sports in general. But you started right after that in nineteen eighty five, you got

selected in the first round by the Phoenix Suns. John McCloud was the coach. Walter Davis was still on the team, kind of winding down his career. What was that like, you still you always shoot like over fifty percent during your career. What was that like when you first started out for those couple of years in Phoenix. No, it was you know, when I go back to my time with the Phoenix Suns, it was a huge learning experience

for me. At the time, the team wasn't very good and they were sort of trying to fight their way out of mediocracy. Of course, you know at that time the Lakers ruled the Roust. I mean they were they were the best team by far in the West. And you mentioned Larry Nance and Walter Davis. Those two guys were the leaders, and John McLeod was. You know, I'm actually glad that I got drafted by Phoenix because he

was a great teacher by nature. And many of the lessons I learned in the NBA and what helped me sustain my career for as long as I did, Many of those lessons were learned by John McLeod when I first came into the NBA, because he was constantly trying to teach you about how to live a professional life as a professional athlete. I mean, many of the times you get athletes that come in and they certainly enjoy what the life of an NBA uh, you know, paycheck provides,

but you don't really learn how to work. And he made sure that every player that came in onto that team knew you're gonna work. You're gonna you know, you're gonna have a daily plan in a workout regiment and you've got to complete it. You know, it's not gonna be about you know, doing other things. And you know, I got a great lesson learned from from being under that under that rule early on. So that was two years in Phoenix and coach McLoud got let go in

your second year and Dick van Arsdale came in. But eventually you get traded a Sacramento and I guess people forget. But Bill Russell was the head coach of the Kings.

What was that like to play under Bill Russell? Well, it's it's interesting because in this you know, this coronavirus world, I mean, Willis Reid was Bill Russell's assistant at that time, and you know, like I'm obviously everyone's seen the Last Dance and the Jordan thing, but you know, the Knicks are put out their own uh you know, information about their championship years and there are these specials on Willis read that are amazing. But anyway, you know, those two

were my coaches. Um, you know when I went to Sacramento, and you know, both championship level players, and you know, they had a they had a preparation mentality that they always tried to come in with. I mean they were constantly talking about how to prepare as a player, how to prepare before the game, how to get ready for the next game. After the game, they were all about that.

And there's this, there's this story I always tell about Bill Russell because he was a stickler for conditioning and uh, you know, certainly during this this error in time, you would never do this to a player as a coach. But he put the water bottles up on the third level of the stadium, so anytime you wanted to get water, he wanted to make sure you were working during that time on your conditioning, so you'd have to climb all

the way. And he told me later, you know, I always wanted to know who needed the most water that you know. That always told me that the guy was not mentally tough. So all of the players would go through these two and a half three hour practices would absolutely no water at all. Everyone was afraid to climb up the steps and go get there a drink of water and stuff. You would never do anything like that now, but you know, he was a stickler for conditioning in preparation.

Both both those guys were. Turns out, the rules on hydration have changed a little bit. Yeah, I would say, I mean, I'm from the same era where a couple of years apart, but where they used to tell you to spin it out, like really, because I think I'm actually supposed to consume it. So then you moved out to Boston and Larry Bird was toward the end of his career. He was having issues with his back, but he's still the one year he averaged nearly thirty points,

nine rebounds, seven assists. And you play with Bird and McHale and Parish and the iconic Boston Celtics. What was that experience like, No, it was. It was a great experience. Uh. You know, I can't believe I'm reashing the boss the Celtics with with you. But we've had many many occasions where we've talked about sort of a championship mentality because we didn't win any championships during that time, but they certainly had that mentality, you know, going from Sacramento to Boston,

and it was a great experience for me. I mean, you mentioned all the three great the players that played at that time, but certainly Dennis Johnson was still on that team as well too, and he was a joy to play with. But you know, it was the first time for me being an NBA player where I would go to practice every single day and I would have to mentally get myself ready for practice, because very often early on in my career, I'd go to practice and I would just sort of practice and really not get

much accomplished. I was just practicing. Well. In this particular practice, you were expected to get an individual move and or shot down that you were working on as the year went on, and then you really had to compete. It was some of the most competitive practices that I had ever ever been a part of. And certainly there was a lot of talking turn during the course of it.

I mean Bird never stopped talking, mcale never stopped talking, and you always had a sprinkling in of Robert Parish trying to trying to talk to you as well too. So they were fun, fun times and just some of the most competitive practices that I had ever been a

part of. Man you moved on to Milwaukee and then five ninety six you were with the Toronto Raptors, and it was the first ever obviously with Vancouver Basque professional Basketball, not the first ever because I know about the Huskies, but where the NBA moved to Toronto at that time when they first cut into the league. And I don't know if you remember this, so you had. You were with them in the preseason. Do you remember playing the Sixers. We played two games, so it was their first ever

pro game. One was in Halifax and one was in Saint Johnson Brunwick, Brunswick, So it was nineteen ninety five. You were you part of that. I was. I was definitely a part of that group. And you know, at the time we were, we were on tour. We played the Sixers. As you mentioned, we also played Vancouver as well too. Vancouver had had a spot going on up there in Canada. I just remember that the crowd and Halifax and they had minor league basketball up there, but

it literally was like a church. They were so respectful and I was doing the game on the radio that was my first year. I could not believe how quiet it was. It was like polite applause. It was. It was so unique, and that's why I bring it up. It was I'll never forget that setting, and it was you know, they were so respectful, and it was like, wait, this is pro sports. It's okay to get after a little bit. Well, I'm gonna tell you a funny story

about that particular game. Because that team was comprised of a lot of guys who were left in the expansion draft. At that time, you had an expansion draft and protected Vancouver picked some guys and Toronto picked some guys. So on this particular squad we had John Sally. John Sally was on that team, and John Sally in that game stood up during the game and said, is anybody gonna say anything? I mean, like by point, Yeah, no, I

remember that. I remember that. But Sally, like during the course of the game, he was just like, I just left Detroit and this is the kind of crowd we're gonna play in in front in Toronto. I mean, it was unbelievable. That's great. And then later that season you came to the seventy six ers and John Lucas was the coach, and I would imagine that's part of your association currently with the Rockets as Lucas part of that staff with Mike D'Antoni. And it was toward the end

of your career. It was an eighteen win season. But you come back to Philadelphia as a pro player. Your thoughts there, No, it was you know, I came back to Philadelphia, my second home, and it was sort of a home. It was homecoming for me, but I came back in sort of like a mentoring role, which was which was great. I mean, I was excited about coming back. The top rookie on the team at that time was Jerry Stackhouse. And you know, I tell you know, I

tell everyone this story. We'd go to these practices and we had this coach that was always constantly in my ear on the team bus, and that practice, this coach turned out to be Tom Thibodeaux. So you know, that was my introduction to Tom Thibodeau. Very early after practice, Tom Thibodeau would occasionally work out this very young player who John Lucas would occasionally allow us to practice with. That player was Kobe Bryant. So that, I mean, that

was my introduction back home to Philadelphia basketball. And you know, you talk about some of the relationships that you're able to create when you're in this game and in this business. And you know, obviously we know about about Kobe Bryant and how great he turned out to be. And uh, you know, I've had a nine ten year coaching relationship with Tom Thibodeau and he's turned into one of the

the you know, the top coaches of all time. Now I knew you were down to earth back then because one time we were standing outside Saint Joe's after practice and you go, hey, you can be right in Center City at the time, at the time they were they were redoing my home and I was staying in a hotel I had, you know, I was just like, hey, let me try to get a riding back downtown. Man. Well, and then after that you go to Miami and you finish your playing career there and you end up working

for the Heat. But obviously coach Riley was still the head coach of Miami and you know, we've talked over the years about, you know, different things and the intensity of Riley. We came to know then the ice bucket challenge. But he might have been invented it. Tell the story about one time pregame he was trying to coach, showed you guys something about you know, drive or resilience here or whatever, and he put his head in an ice bucket and had held his breath and all you guys

were sitting around. Is that how it went? Well? Yeah, it This happened to Detroit and it was during um, you know, just not a good stretch of basketball, and he he has this this catalog of great speeches. I mean he would present to the team, um, you know before each and every game, and he I mean, he was really good at it. But for some reason, um, he didn't do it this time. And you know, he would always come in. He would do what I call is making entrance into the pregame talk. It was, you know,

very well calculated. But this one, uh didn't happen this time. In Detroit. He kind of just walked in and the bucket of ice was on the side already, the trainer had had put it there. So he's talking to us about the you know, what we have to do in this upcoming game, and he says, in order to break this losing streak, we have got to win this game, like it's got to be your last breath of air. And he reaches over to the bucket and sticks his

head in the bucket. And I'm looking over at Alonzo morning like, okay, he's gonna lift his head up at so I mean, he literally he kept his head in the ice bucket. It's like, you have to go after this with your last breath. And Old team just comes into the middle of the locker room and we go out there and we win the game, and it was

just an unusual way to motive pervade the team. But you know, he's one of the best, if not the best, that I've ever been around in terms of preparing his teams to win at any cost, and he was great. We'll continue my conversation with former Villanova stand out and longtime NBA veteran player and coach Ed Pinckney in a moment. In this time of social distancing, Novacare Rehabilitation is offering physical therapy from the comfort and safety of your home.

Through their new tel a Rehab program. Novacare will virtually bring their services to you so you may heal, build strength, and get back to the things you love. Tell a Rehab let you easily connect with one of Novacare's licensed therapists through web based technology that is hippo compliant. For more information, visit novacare dot com. And now back to my conversation with Ed Pinkney. Eventually you come back to Villanova and you spend I believe four years of Coachwright

as an assistant with Villanova. What was that like and what did you learn A big takeaway from Coach Jay Wright? Well, Jaywright. You know, I think everyone has this perception obviously of him being this icon. And you know, I had known Jay right because he had been around m Rolie Massamino during his time in Nevada, Las Vegas and then eventually Villanova.

So you know, during my stint in Miami, I really wanted to coach, and uh, you know, I had talked to Jay about that, and his one of his assistants, Joe Jones, who's currently the head coach at Boston Boston U left and I got the opportunity, and you know what I learned from Jay was essentially how to coach, how to coach players, how to coach high level players.

At the time, he had a high level recruiting class, and uh, you know, I had been a part of the NBA for a very long time, and coaching college kids is very different from coaching professional basketball players. You've got to bring in every day intensity to the practice floor that you really don't bring in an NBA environment. And Jay is very fiery, and he's an underrated defensive coach. And I think, you know, it's obviously shown with the

two championships that Villanova has been able to win. But I really learned how to coach at a high level from him. I mean he was just you know, he some of the things that he would talk about on a daily basis is bringing an all out effort and being great every single day. And you know, if things don't work out that particular day, come with the same intensity the very next day. And that's that's something you know, I'll always bring with me that I learned from him.

And speaking of always bringing, everybody remembers nineteen eighty five NCAA championship victory for Villanova over Georgetown. Nobody gave you guys credit. It was an emotional day in Lexington and that former coach Al Severance had passed away in Lexington in the hotel, Jake Nevin oft Chorus, a long time trainer,

was battling New Garrett's disease. You didn't even think you were going to make the final for at one point, after a hard, difficult loss at pitt in the in the waning moments of the regular season, you beat North Carolina to get into the final four, and then the big day walk us through that and how coach Mass got you guys ready for the win over George Down No, he was great. I mean, you know, in terms of preparing a team for winning, I mean, he did a

fantastic job. He used to taylor our practices on a daily basis to play against Georgetown, So people always ask us, how did you prepare? I mean, we didn't really have to prepare that one particular day. It was something that Massimino always talked about. I mean, if you're if you're gonna absolutely beat the best, you got to prepare to play against the best. So he had instilled a great confidence in us to be ready to play. And then we just got some amazing performances by guys who you know,

really stepped up. I mean, you know, Gary McClain was somebody who just did a fantastic job of handling what at the time was probably the top defensive team in the entire country. Uh you know, Harold Jensen making huge shots, Howard Pressley making amazing shots along with Dwayne McClain. We just had contributions from from guys all over the place, and uh, you know, we were really together. I mean, it was a fantastic and a great team to be a part of. And uh, we all we all give

all of the credit to ROLEI Massmino. He was just a fantastic coach and just in the regular lost Developer Georgetown twice in the regular season, but one of those games the second time. I wasn't going to bring that up, but I wasn't going to bring up the two losses, but to narrowly lose to them at overtime, you knew

you were pretty close. Even though it's the old saying it's hard to be the team three times that had a factor in like, you know, hey, and we're the underdogs, but let's give it a shot, right, Well, no, you're you're absolutely right. I mean, they just were so dominating and we felt is I mean, they call this game the perfect game, and it really had to be that

way because they just they didn't beat themselves. I mean, they were talented, they were smart, they played very physical, well coached, just coming off a championship game the year prior to the game in which we beat them in the finals, so they had all the elements that would lend itself to being heavily favorite in that game. But again, you know, Massimino just unbelievable masterful in getting us ready ready to play and what would be the biggest games

of our lives. Well, at Duke they call the former players of Brotherhood. You guys have that too, and Coach Right has really done a great job of fostering with the former players, the current players, the history of the program, tremendous tradition and that's got to be special to be part of that group and have that as a home of basketball home for all of you players. Correct, Yeah,

you're you're, You're absolutely right. I mean, you know I will Whenever the Dallas Mavericks come through town, you know, I make sure I get a chance to spend some time with Jalen Brunson and talk to him about his career. Um, you know, the same with us the Chicago Bulls. When Ryan Archidiacano comes through, you know, I make sure that I spend a little bit of time with him and talk with him. And I mean there are so many Jay has done a great job of pairing guys for

the NBA. So this sprinkling of Villanova guys all over the NBA, and they all understand what the brotherhood means. I mean, you know, many of them, what weren't even born when I played, but they still have that sense of hey, I'm a part of Villanova, and you know, it's it's great to be a part of that brotherhood. It's amazing that people still remember you and that team you were talking about when you got the Boston Larry Bird said, Hey, in nineteen eighty five, I've been with

you in Charlotte one time. We were walking down the street and people recognize you from that. It's still one of the most watched college game progames ever, basketball games ever. And like you say, what a neat thing to be associated with. Well, it's you know, it speaks to the power of college basketball and how many people watch those games. You know, it's unfortunate we don't get a chance to, you know, get a whole new slate of you know,

college basketball fantastic games this year. But I mean, you know, wherever I go, wherever I go, I mean, you know, everyone talks about that game. They don't talk about certainly the Celtics or my time with the Celtics, but they talk about that that last game. And certainly the Big East.

The Big East at the time was the premier conference and uh, you know, Dave Gavitt was a guy who just did a fantastic job of promoting that conference and giving us all the platform to to show out talents well as much basketball as you know, and you know, as weird as you as you are into the NBA. What do you think of, you know, the star two players for the Sixers in Ben Simmons and Joel Eenb. Well, all I gotta say is the last two years that

I've coached in Philadelphia haven't been the best of home comings. Uh. You know, one has been a thirty point just destruction and the other, you know, a twenty point destruction. Those two guys are the future of the NBA. Um. They are a combination of strength, finesse, high skill level and uh are on their way certainly to you know, to

to providing some some great years for the Sixers. I mean, you know that the great thing about them both is that they're still very young and they're still learning, um, you know, how to win at a high level. But you know, I have no no doubt in my mind that in the future both are gonna, you know, just set the East on their ears. I think it. It's difficult coaching against them, I know that, but uh, you know,

they both have very bright futures for sure. It's like before basketball has been your life, and you know so many people and keep in touch with so many people, including your New York roots, and you know, and watch basketball as much as anybody I've ever met, a true hooped if you will, everything from like New York basketball in the high school level. It's still college basketball clearly the pros. I mean that's a that's a pretty neat thing. It's a compliment and it's a testament to your joy

and love of the game. But that's true, is it, I mean, cover the whole breath of the sport. Well, no, it's uh listen, I mean it's a part. It's been a part of my life. Basketball forever. I mean ever since I've been a small kid. It's a sport that I love. I mean, you know your current general manager. I watched play Au days. I mean that's you know, that's how far I go back. I mean, I just love it on all levels and uh, you know, enjoy how the game has evolved into what it has today.

I mean again you mentioned the two stars for the Sixers. Look at how versatile they are. I mean, it's it's just great to watch how the game has evolved and how players just continue to get better and take the game the great heights, and I really like watching the evolution of that and watching players, you know, kind of develop into what they have and what they can be in the future. It's a lot of fun to sort of see that process. I'll let you go with this, but I want to wrap it up. So you've done

pretty much everything in the game, including broadcasting. During the O nine ten NBA season, you were the color analysts with markom Off what is now NBC Sports Philadelphia. An assistant coach for many years now, a little bit of the scouting front office angle. Do you those still have a handkering if you will to be a head coach and either the college or the pro game, what would be mat told me the five year plan for ed picking. Well, you know, I always leave it to this. I think

I can. I just help wherever I can. I love helping young kids. I've enjoyed my pro coaching career. You know, I coach four years in college and I think, uh, you know, as long as you're able to sort of give knowledge and help either a staff or lead a staff, is you know. I mean, when the opportunities present themselves, I'm I think I'm prepared and ready for them. And you know, I've been lucky, I mean each of us. If you're in the game long enough, you're gonna wear

many hats. And I've been lucky enough to do that, so I don't I don't really close the door to anything, you know, whether it be coaching or scouting or managing whatever. As long as it's in the game of basketball, I'll be fine. But I gotta leave you with this because I see what you're wearing and I'm talking to zoom Off. Zoom Off doesn't hook me up. You gotta get you guy, Chris Heck, to give me some swag. I mean, I need some sixer swag. Man. That's great, You got it right,

Oh right, listen. If not the shirt, I'd love to have a hat, if a golfing hat. When I go to Aronomic, that would be nice to lock the six a year. You got it. Well, Thank you so much. We so much appreciate your time. Nice talking to you. Thanks for listening to Tom's talks with me Tom McGinnis on the seventy six Ers podcast network. Check for new episodes every weekend.