The BroadCast: 12/14/2018 ~ Lindsey Harding Learns a New Game

It's you've done things that most of these guys haven't done, and we want to know with your experience, you know how you see things. Armed with that well rounded perspective, Harding has hit the ground running, spending a ton of time on the road and trying to do what scouts do, evaluate and gather information that could eventually benefit her organization. Half of my job has to do with intel. You just never know. It could be something so small that

can make a big difference in decisions. Harding story, and now she's learning a new part of the game. On this episode of the broadcast What's Up out There seventy podcast, people hope everything is going well. My name's Brian Seltzer. Really looking forward to a having you back and listening

to this edition of the podcast. If you are a return listener, be thrilled if this is your first time, and see most of all, really excited to bring you a conversation with a phenomenal basketball player and now new addition to the seventy sixers family, Lindsay Harding, hired as

a scout by the Sixers over the summer. Before we bring on Lindsay, a reminder that to subscribe to the podcast, well you got to do is find our feeds on any number of places Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, SoundCloud, tune in, pocketcasts, pretty much any podcasting platform that is out there. All you gotta do is search Sixers podcast network that will take you to our feed and then

please do subscribe. Lindsay Harding, let's quickly run through some cliff notes of her biography and then bring her on to talk more about her career and what it's been where she now sees it possibly Heading played a duke, graduated in two thousand and seven, number one pick in that year's w NBA draft, A well rounded two way point guard who made the w NBA All Rookie Team her first year, was a Naismith College Basketball Player of

the Year the Women's Basketball Coaches Association Defensive Player of the Year after a senior season at Duke, and in addition to playing in the w NBA for a decade, she also spent extensive time overseas, which ultimately led to an opportunity for her to play for the Belarus women's national team, and she had a spot in the Olympics in two and sixteen in Brazil. So that's the thumbnail

sketch on Lindsay Harding. Now we'll bring her on to talk more about how her career has helped put her on a path towards joining the seventy six ers basketball operations department in the role of a scout who's been covering a little bit of everything rares at Lindsay for a scout to have an opportunity to be situated, even if only for a brief moment, on home base. So as we're talking right now, what brings you to Camden

in the Philadelphia area? Just passing through over the course of kind of thing, A very busy time of year for you. I think everyone missed me. Every time I come back, I get so many hugs. I'm a hugger anyway. No, just been busy on the road watching all these teams, and you know, I live here now. And it's funny because everyone asked me, how how do you like Philadelphia? I'm like, you know what, I'm not here long enough

to get a good feel of it. So whenever I can and get back, I do come in and just kind of reconnect with everybody. That's the main point of all of this, as you know, being being able to have conversations, maybe have some meetings if I need to, and then after a couple of days I go back out there. Well, let's get first things straight. First, are the seventy six or a hugging organization? That was something new to me? Well, you know what I think because

I don't know. Look, I don't know. If guys is run around and hug each other, then me, I'm from the South. I'm a hugger. I come in and it's been a while. It's not like, Okay, if I saw you every day, I'm not gonna hug you every day. But there's some people that I really literally haven't seen probably in a month, because when I come they're gone. So when I see them. It's a big little reconnection hug,

and then then we go. My first inclination is to ask what your day to day is like, but I almost think it might make more sense, like what's your week to week like, even how much you're on the road, and just what goes into your schedule? What is it like? Give us a sample. Um, well, I'm I'm learning. You know, this is my first time I'm trying to do plan my own schedule. And I remember the first first month, you know, we try to plan at least a month in advance. I was excited, like I had a game

all the time, and everyone looked at me. They're like, slow down, you're gonna understand what we're talking about. So I try to do three to four games on a couple of days, maybe off, two maybe three off. We'll see and just kind of do that over and over so I can have back to back games. You know, I can have a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, maybe even a Friday. Then I'll have Saturday Sunday off. Or I

may have a Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. It depends on the schedule and who we're trying to see, and so get up in the morning, and well, it depends if there was a game tonight before. If there was a game tonight before, get up the next morning, fly to the next city. Why once you get there, that's when I probably get a lot of work done during the day. Then you get to the arena about two hours before

the game. That's when your job kind of starts and watch the game, go to sleep, and you do it all over again. When I first started doing this job, I was traveling maybe seventy five eighty percent of the road games. And the one thing that I had absolutely zero idea what type of toll it was going to take,

is just the notion of constant travel. It seems very easy on the outside, especially when you take into account, well, the team travels on these very nice Supremo Outcome planes and you stay in the hotels, the team stays at You don't have that type of life first of all now, but then just constantly being on the move, it's it's not just a mental drain. There's a physical side of it too. It is it really makes a difference the time that you're flying. I repeat that, the time that

you're flying makes a difference. So if I'm flying on a ten eleven o'clock flight, I'm pretty good because I got a good night's sleep and I can I can go. And sometimes there are times where you have to take that six o'clock because that's the only one, which means you're getting up at four when the night before the game was over at like eleven, and you ate. By the time you got to bed, you got maybe three or four hours, and you have to just kind of

go with it. So that's why when I'm on about three or four games, I take those two days off because I want to sleep it and catch up and be healthy and just be good. If I'm not sleeping, well, if I'm not healthy, I'm not going to do my job, you know. Well, So it's a little difficult, but I'm gonna use to it. Now now I'm kind of understanding it and getting in my own rhythm, and now I'm much more comfortable. There's a lot of stuff that I'd

like to touch upon over the course of this interview. Obviously, you had a phenomenal playing career, really excellent at the college in pro level and before that, obviously, but I want to try and fill in some gaps first. So you retired from the w NBA end of the two thousand sixteen twenty sixteen season, went over to Turkey, went overseas to play, and then what was in between after Turkey and joining the seventy six ers, What was going on then? What were the type of things you were

looking into? And then how ultimately did you land with the seventy six ers. So I finished in twenty sixteen. The WNBA then went overseas because that's what we all do. We go WNBA overseason, just back and forth, played in Turkey. Istembel came back in May of twenty seventeen and was done. So I took four months and just vacation. I was on any beach I could and just a vacation. But I spent time. I went to Summer League that summer and tried to reconnect with a lot of people. I

knew I wanted to be in the NBA. I didn't know exactly what capacity, but I knew that I had a lot of relationships and I wanted to just talk to people and have guidance and mentors and see what they kind of suggest. And while I was there, Bethany Donophan, who works at the NBA League office was telling me about a program that they have they just started a year before for former players who want to get in the office and like the league office and understand that.

And I thought it would be a great opportunity. So I interviewed for that and had that opportunity. It's called a Basketball Operations Associates program. So I had to pack up everything and moved to New York City lived there too. It was about a year program. Then you got a chance to kind of rotate throughout the different departments within basketball operations, from referee data analytics to you know, CBA

seller cap, just everything to get an understanding. And it also helps with the transition from playing of you know what exactly what direction do I really want to go? And while I was there, the one thing I can tell you is, at least or now, I really didn't want to be in that office twenty four seven and I really wanted to work with a team. I missed that competitiveness, I missed, you know, my team, and so

I from there. You know, someone who has relationships with a lot of people, and I can talk to anybody. I do, and you know, I talked to different teams and organizations about you know, getting my foot in the door and trying to help with with my next career. And I had an opportunity here. I interviewed for this position here for Philly, and I felt lucky enough that they, you know, saw something in me that I can help,

you know. So it's it's great and I know that they are definitely invested and really wanted something different, you know. And it wasn't just so you're a woman and you're here. It's you've done things that most of these guys haven't done, and we want to know with your experience, you know, how you see things, what were some of those things they ever tell you, the people that you interviewed with,

what some of those distinguishing qualities were. I mean, I think with my experience in Europe for being, you know, one going back and forth with the w NBA. I mean, when we're in Europe, we're there for seven eight months and you're not on this resort, you're living, you have a car, you have a grocery store, you live, and you learn different cultures and all the different coaches I've played for in the different styles, the different environments, just everything.

And then also transitioning back to the w NBA. I had a chance to play for a national team, Belarus national team and played with them, so all of those experienced together and how I see things. If I never played it in Europe, I would definitely not see the game that I see it in the way I see it now. How So can you elaborate on that a

little bit? It's it's just different. It's just different. I feel in Europe, the fours and fives were shooting threes kind of before we were, you know, and they wanted they wanted the bigs to come because they didn't have bigs that were going to play down low and post you up, you know, so they were kind of already already doing that. Just as a style of play can be different, they're practicing is different. You know. If you look at the NBA team as the season goes on,

there's not a ton of practice. You know, after eighty something games. These guys are tired, right, they have to focus, but you still want to get things in. In Europe, they will still practice you two a days in the playoffs if they need to or if they feel it. It's just different. But there are a lot of things that I did learn from there. Things I like things that I didn't like, but also just seeing and also

different talent too. Different players have played with that. Some are not you would look at and you'd say they're not a great athlete, they're not this and that, But how do they keep ending with twenty and ten? There's something about this this player that makes them good and really like focusing on that too. Was it always going to be personnel for you? Was there ever a chance we could have seen Lindsay Harding and black and white striped shirt, black pants being a referee. I know, right,

I had that kind of come in my head. I had some people going to talk to me about that opportunity of doing that, and of course coming from the court running that sounds like fun and great and to everyone's booing you and coming at you, and it no, it's I think it's amazing when I had that time in the league office and saw after every game, how much I mean, there's a person that sits and reviews eight hours of that one game. Did they do this right?

Is this a correct call? Is it not? It's crazy what these refs kind of go through and people don't know. People just see them out there and they disagree with a call and they do all this stuff. You don't know that these these men and women women now are the best of what they do, just like the players are. And to get to that level and to you know, it's just amazing. But I don't think I really have that. I like all positive, let's just put it that way.

I like all positive. And every time you walk in it's like as a referee, they just see the jersey and you're not a person. You are against us. It's a point guard. You probably had to view the game a certain way, and you did it at a very elite level when you were playing. And I don't know if it ever got to point in your career when you started thinking what would happen after the career was all said and done. Did you start looking at other

players differently? Did you find yourself evaluating talent while you were out there playing on the court, And how is that informed what you're doing now? And how is what you're doing now a different way of looking at the games? I think, I mean as a player and as a point guard. You know Parsonnel, right, you have to know

who you're playing. Of course, your coaches have always given you a scouting report and you know, and you also have to do it on the floor, Like if I know someone is amazing at going left and taking a jump shot, I'm not going to let them go left right. So you you you notice certain trends or certain things that people do over and over, you know what I mean. You know they're kind of bread and butter moves. So

you learn that and know that. But when I was playing, I didn't just say I'm going to focus on personnel. I was thinking more of and I said this before and a lot of my interviews, it's it's it's relationships. It's help in that that next direction and what that

next career. And about four or so five four years ago, I had the opportunity to be an assistant coach in Summer League with the Raptors, and I was still playing, but I had that opportunity and it was a great experience, and that's what really pushed me to you know what, I really would love to try to have a career in the NBA. So it was more, you know, how can I get these experiences, how can I gain these relationships. I'm on the women's side, but I don't know these guys.

I don't know these coaches. I don't know the gms. How can I try to get there when I can? So I spend a lot of time there doing that when I was in Summer League. And again I told you, I went back to Summer League after I finished to see if I can get any opportunities. I think, almost as tried and true as it is coaches warming up players on a court part of the pregame rituals, at least in NBA circles, seeing personnel people and scouts chatting on the sidelines. What are those chats? Like? What are

they about? What are you finding and learning that they're about? It is there like I always because I try to observe, like is there a certain language that that scouts speak that that you found or anything like that. I mean I realized I start seeing the same people everywhere, you know, and if and how the games work, they may be on the same trip with you and maybe on the same flight. You never know it. I mean it's interesting

because for me, especially now, it's developing those relationships. You know, it's getting to know these people who they are, their background, their path and how they got to where they were. So like for me, a lot of it is that and from that you just you know, you can chat about anything, right. Half of my job is it has to do with intel and information that I can get that I feel will be useful for us. So and it doesn't necessarily have to be about the teams that

you're watching. They may just say, hey, did you hear about this? And I'm like no, and it's like, whoa, that's information. Let me bring that back and see if anyone else hurt that, and you know, is there any truth to it? Or if you're watching a certain player and you know, you may ask this another scout, what do you think about this guy? And especially some of these scouts who do college because they've been watching this guy forever and it's really good to hear other people's opinion.

And but the biggest thing too is trying to get you know, talk to coaches or other players or other personnel there and just see because you just you just never know it could be something so small that can make a big difference in decision with organizations. As you said, I'm learning and I'm learning that well, it's got to be such a fascinating process to try and I would think figure out how to judge what good information and

good intelligence is. Is that part of it too, where everything you're taking in i'd have to assume people know who you are, who you work for. Is a kind of like judge it with a grain of salt? Or how do you evaluate information that you get? Well? For one, if you That's why relationships are big, right, So if I really know someone and I have a great relationship with them and this and this, they're more likely to tell you the really good stuff, right, the really good

stuff that you're like, wow, some of it. Some of it I may not know. I may not know how true it is. I may not know if it's like hearsay, I don't know. But for me and you know, with my organization, like I, I'll bring it back and say what do you think about that? Or is this crazy? Or you know, and you talk to people and obviously we have other scouts too, and it's kind of like what do you know about this and this and that?

And you just kind of like talk amongst each other and we just kind of hold tight with each other. But that's kind of what you do, is you bring it back because I never know. It could be something small, it could be something not, And I just ask, who are some of the people internally that you found yourself leaning on getting adjusted? Well, Vince Rosman, main guy. He's the one that I probably ask everything too, probably like too much. Like so what about this? Another guy, he's

a scout. He came in with me, Jara Holden. He's been in the league, around the league for years and he's another great one. I mean, he's been doing this for years. So for me to, you know, come in as a scout, how do you approach this when you want to talk about this? How do you start a conversation in that way? And how do you because you don't ever want to be someone that comes in and it's like, Hi, I'm lindsay so and you like, you know, that's kind of rude. Rude, you know it's rude. Like

it because people have done it to me. And I don't know if they think, oh, she's a newbie, she's gonna tell us everything we want. No, we don't do this, But I'm just saying it's been good to have that. Um an other like Rod Baker another one. I went on a trip with him. He does our mainly college. Went on a trip with him in North Carolina. I went to see, of course, my Blue Devils and some other teams, and I got a chance to see how he did it. Um Jordan Cohen has been a scout.

I mean, I can't even tell you how many years, but I went on my first trips with him. He does pro personnel as well, so he can help me get the lay of the land and what to do. So everyone's been very, very helpful. How comfortable are you feeling a couple months into this thing. Oh, I'm much more comfortable now. Before it was. You know, every organization, you at least want to know somebody there, right, That's

the whole point when you're traveling. But and I do, But there had been some that I I didn't know anyone. I might have known a player or two, but they're warming up and they're playing. It's on the outside I may not know anyone, and you have to walk in and get to know people, and you know, be able to get to know them and see where it goes. But again, like I said, sometimes you see the same scouts around and everyone, not even just my organization. Other

scouts have been very helpful. If I'm sitting there talking and a coach comes up that I don't know. They do an introduction and it's just easy. So we kind of like help each other out because we're all there for the same thing. Everyone knows that you're a scout. We know what you're here for. I always wonder, when talking to someone who's one of the first of some type of person to be doing something, how much value

to place in that narrative. It's easy on the outside for someone who can't identify with that, like myself, that like, wow, this is a pretty cool story. Second w NBA player to ever be a full time scout in the NBA. But how much does that matter to you? How do you that in what context do you put all that into? Um, it's it's it's awesome when you know. I've had some I've had some interviews before and they talk about that

and they're like, oh, you're doing this. And I also had another interview before and they're like, I think you're the first black woman to do it. And that was something else too, that's like, oh, that's awesome. You want to be great at your job because you want the person that's gonna come next to not have to you know, come on, what if I was horrible and lazy and they don't want to do anything. It's gonna be horrible. How are they gonna want to hire someone else outside

of the box again? Right? So I feel the same with Becky Hammond that you have to be great at what you do. You have to be a professional, you have to just like I said, be great because you're sending the tone and um and I feel that, especially what she's doing, she is because she's out there. I feel the same for me as well. Oh it's like, you know, there's not many of us out here scouting, so there's could be another player. There could be a woman that it has never played but want to get

in it. And it's like, you know what, let me hopefully do well, keep my great, great reputation and it can be easier for the next and then it won't be so and so hired a female this, it'll just be here's the new scouts. Because that's always what I wondered, Is it in some ways diminish the fact that like, yeah, this Philadelphia seventy six ers are this big operation and they're obviously at a very high level. They probably hired

you mostly because you're great at what you do. And you have a proven track record of being involved in the field of basketball, and there are other qualities that obviously put you in front of them and made them want to hire you. So I always I never know how to frame those questions. That's well, that's that's, that's it, and I don't want it to be well, they mostly

hired you for that. No, that's why they hired me, and that's why with my interviews, in the conversations that I've had, I had with them too, and I brought this up, you know, I brought this up. I said, I know it's like I'm a woman and this and that, and they're like, yeah, we see that. But you know, you've had an experience and have done this and this that most of our people haven't had, and we want

you to bring in. We feel that it's going to be different, unique, it's going to help us, and that's what you wanted to be focused on. And I think it's great. Like if you walk around the office, this organization has a lot of women in here. You know, we have a lot more. I mean there was some when I came and I traveled and I came back and there's more and they're big into that, you know, and I think it's great, awesome. I would be remiss if I didn't get into some duke stuff at the

very least. How much duke chatter is there around these parts, or maybe not even chatter, but just that fraternal feeling of cameronosity and that sort of thing. Yeah, you know, it's great to be here with JJ. Me and JJ came in at the same time. We were freshman at the same time. It do all your years, yeah, with it. So he still looks the same, He's still taking those same shots, still running working hard. I feel like he has not aged. But it was great to see him.

He told me when he saw me we were eating lunch. He was like, I was so excited. I was like, she's coming. Of course. It's great to have Elton here. Um. He was the first one that I interviewed with when I was interviewing for the job here, and it was great to kind of talk to him, and him being a former player as well and pretty new from like

newly retired. It was just really good to have that that conversation because it is different, you know, it's different from being on the floor to completely changing to this. So if it's great. And it's not just here, it's around the league everyone, you know, all us Blue Devils

kind of I want to say, stick together. They called a brotherhood, but I've been the one that's kind of slipped into and the you know in the NBA, so like they take me in and as well, and of course when we talk about things, you know, the Duke team now is pretty good, pretty good, so we're proud of that. Did you and Elton have any prior interactions?

Did you cross paths before we did? You know, I was with the league office and you know, he was the geele GM and there was just a couple of times that we would just finally when we'd see each other, whether it's at the you know, I think he was, was he at the combine or he was at the showcase in Toronto last year, we got a you know, a chance to really like talk and I think I even asked him then, like how are you adjusting and

how are you liking things? Because at that time it was like a year out, you know, how are you? And he loved it. He loved it, you know, and now he's where he's at, So I'm just trying to get on his path. His path and then kind of learn the way. He has a couple of quick hitters about your career. When did you know that you were going to be a number one pick? Did you have any idea going into that year's draft that you were

going to be the time? Well, going in the draft, um that year, I mean my senior year, you were up. I mean I was up for all the different awards right and pretty good. But I knew because I think it was a day or two before the draft. I had gotten on the phone with See it's different here. They don't bring you in a lot and do everything

with the w's different. But I got on the phone with a coach at the time, it was just San Antonio Stars they're now in Vegas, and they had the two pick and he said, if you're left at two, I'm taking you. So I was like, one or two, that's not bad. One or two. So that's kind of

when I kind of knew. And then just the day of, it's just nerves and you're just anxious and you're just just want to know what you're doing, where you're going, and kind of that time is finally here, that time that I wanted since I was twelve, It's like, finally here. And for us, it's not like I'm going at nineteen week go after college. So I had four years. I was in my twenties a little bit, and you know at that moment, favorite teammates story from your time in

the w NBA. Favorite teammate story, gosh, I can say this instead of teammate story, let's just say favorite season. And my favorite season was I had left. I was at DC. I was in DC playing for the Mystics, but I signed to play for Atlanta. And when I got there, it was this big deal. They had all this double Lindsay Harding's coming point guard. We're gonna do all this. And Atlanta was good. They were good, they did well, and I got there. The first nine games

were oh and nine. We were oh and nine and everyone. Then all of a sudden, you know what changed? Why else? She's not that good. She brought this as negative and I'm just like, oh my gosh. And we weren't getting killed. It was like one or two possessions losing and I'm like, oh, we're right here. Then all of a sudden, we went on a tear. We went all the way, we went to the Finals that year. We didn't win, and we probably shouldn't have because we weren't as talented as the

team that won. But it says a lot. I always remember that. I always remember that when they're slow starts, when maybe you're at five hundred, when you're not maybe playing your best basketball, it's also how you lose two. And that's what's important. You have to watch, you know, are we getting blown out? Did we have chances to win? That's learning opportunities. Those are what's really important because that experience.

For me, that's one or two possessions. That's a mistake I could have made by calling this play or not doing this or mystery bound or misfree throws. That's something and once you realize that, and we kind of figured that out, you can go. So I always remember that, And I'll flip that question around. Were there any one or handful of players who felt like you learned and benefited from going up against that taught you a lot of about yourself about the game. Um gosh, there were

a lot of players. Um, I think one player in particular that sticks out, uh Timmy Catchings, who's now with any Well, she's still live Indiana, But with the Pacers. Uh. She was someone who has always been an All Star, has always been probably the greatest since she's picked up a ball. She can score. But she had the same effort and love on defense, Like she sacrificed her body all the time taking charges. She guarded the best player.

How often do you see the best offensive player on the team guarding the best offensive player on the other team. You very rarely see that in the NBA because I rather get the points of they don't want to get him in foul trouble, like right now. So she was like and it was just kind of like we knew she would never not guard a Diana Trassi or not guard know, any of the better players. No, she's gonna guard them. And she's also going to give you about twenty five thirty She's gonna do that and so and

she just had that effort. But I just remember playing against her, now we weren't the same position. There were a couple of times I had to get switched on her, which was horrible. But and there were times she would, you know, guard me. She was very smart, new the game. But I love that about her. She wasn't like I'm just gonna do this and and score. I'm great at this.

She's like, no, I'm gonna score, and I'm gonna get down because that's one thing I've learned about defense and learned from her, when you sacrifice your body when you're out there, I'm gonna guard the best player. That's heart, right, that's heart, and she always had it and I will

always remember that from her. One then on, this sounds like while you seem to very much have had a plan over the course of your career and your life, also there's this side where it sounds like you're willing to go with the flow and take the path where it takes you. Do you set a vision looking out into the future. Do you have mile markers that you would like to reach in terms of whatever the long goal is for you. I mean, it's so interesting. You know,

in the NBA, there's no like exact path. You don't go to ninth grade, tenth grade, eleventh grade, twelth grade like some people just go straight to twelfth grade and then others you just have to go. So for me and how I'm taking this is and like you said, one step at a time, I looked at this opportunity of being a scout, and Brown was a scout and he's a head coach someone else. You know. I told you I did some summer league stuff before with the

Raptors years ago, and their GM was a scout. And so I feel that this is a great opportunity to learn what everyone does, how they do it, and see what opportunities I have next. So that's where I'm at. Well, put great stuff, Lindsay Harding, Thanks much, free time, Thank you awesome and no Lindsay Harding and hear a little bit more firsthand about her story. To read more about Lindsay and her journey. Certainly not someone who has been boxed in bad pun but appropriate I feel over the

course of her life, especially in basketball. You can head to Sixers dot com and check out a feature we wrote on Lindsay as well, called learning a New Game. So that's up on the website and on the seventy sixers social platforms. And it's not yet, it will be soon. Thanks Londsie Harding for taking a chunk out of her day a few weeks ago to record that conversation. Thanks to you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time here on the broadcast. See it