This moment.
I love it. Sean McMahon in the producer spot, Doctor west crafton with me again. You are back from Nashville. You've got a special guest who I've been dying to meet, and she's with us too. Channing is your daughter, and you're in the studio a nice family Thanksgiving thing that we have going on. I say, Hi, Channing. Oh I don't hear her, Mike, do you hear it? Yeah? There
you go, there you go. Hi. Hello. So she looks like you, first of all, And we're going to talk to her in a minute because we have a lot of stuff to go over about family and the main thing I want to talk about because you know, this is a happy time for a lot of families, right There's as it's the Thanksgiving and we're going into Christmas, and for some families it's the best time of year. I mean, you know, I've always enjoyed this. I'm close with my family most of them, but a lot of
times not so great for some families. And we're going to talk about families that are estranged. Oprah Winfrey just did a huge podcast on this called No Contact Families, and what that means basically is that they cut off all ties with either your parents' siblings, you know, grandparents too, that would be included. And there's it was overall it was a set because I knew you watched it too, right,
doctor Uss. So it was a sad podcast, but there was something empowering about it too, And the premise of it is that basically roles of parents that you know, when we grew up on, you know, respect your mother and father. You know, you only have one mom that kind of things. Roles of parenting and just having that, you know, kind of authority because I'm your parents and I tell you what to do, is changed a little bit into more of a relationship. Can you speak a little bit about that.
Yeah, it's more of a consultant. It's more of a consultant type role. So when when parents become when children become the same age as their parents, parents are supposed to transition from a parental role to a role of a consultant where they're there just as a way to offer advice, offer feedback, but ultimately the autonomies with the kids, the adult children. But some parents can't do that.
Why because they get into the role of controlling yes and helicoptering like a helicopter parent. You should do this, You've always been good at that. I think you should go to this college, or I think you should marry this person, right right. And then it becomes the kid. It gets stifled and suffocated and they don't really communicate, and then all of a sudden, your son or daughter don't want to talk to you because there's this to presentment.
Yeah, it's an emotional issue for the parents most often, And what I mean by that is that they can't let go. Their identity is so wrapped up in being a mom or being a dad that they literally don't have an identity apart from that, and so they need to be the one to say do this, don't do that. And I see it a lot, and I have to break that down with my clients, like what is this behavior, what's the function of his behavior for you? Well, I don't know who I am unless i'm a mom.
Yeah. Yeah, they get wrapped up in those roles, and then oftentimes the kids they don't even know how to communicate because it's I'm your mother, You do what? Just do what I say.
Yeah. I have some clients to come in and they're looking for me to tell them what to do. And I say, why are you wanting me, as the therapist to tell you what to do? And they'll say, because it's always been that way. An authority figure has always told me what to do. My mom and dad have always told me what to do, So I'm looking for you to do the same thing in therapy.
You know. Oh my gosh, I don't know how much I'm going to divulge because literally, literally it just reminded me of my ex husband, uh huh, because his parents were very involved in his life. They had two kids. One went to San Francisco and like did his own thing, and they're like, oh, this one's younger. I'm never letting this one out of my sight. And that's kind of how they They did it, and they were lovely parents. They were wonderful parents and they still are. But they
made the mistake. And even his mother said to me one time, I think I overmothered. Yeah, my son. And then we went to California and he went through this I can't talk to him stage for a little bit, and it was hard. It was very, very hard, and parents are blown away by that. This was the whole thing about the podcast of like you know, this mother talked about how they went to ty food and a movie and then the next day they she her daughter said she didn't want to talk to her anymore. And
two years go by. How does that happen?
It's a people finally wake up and realize they're tired of not being their own person. They're just tired of it. They they their identity has been so enmeshed. And that's the that's the key word there, or the term that we use, enmeshment. There is no healthy boundary between the two, so there's just it. It's like a uh, we call
it an undifferentiated family ego mass. That's the clinical term, which is just like imagine like this big mass of just one big ego and it's just a family ego and there's no.
There's roles to play, right, and so if anyone steps out of the role, then ruckus happens to the family. That's there's there's like somebody steps out of line and now we're all suffering.
That's exactly right, Yeah, okay, yeah, And usually whoever steps out along becomes a scapegoat. Yeah, in the family, they're the problem child, they're the black sheep. That's right, right, But they are the strongest. But I tell my clients, but you are actually the strongest one because you've been able to stand up against that dysfunctional pattern. It is a dysfunctional pattern. Yeah, it really is. Five three seven, four hundred, the big run, the big one.
Have you had to cut ties with family members in order to have a more peaceful life or more control over your life. There are things that we are all destined to do here in this life. And when you have somebody that means well, as parents means well, does everything for their kid, has good intentions, wants to like save them from being hurt or you know, but they
don't understand that you're stifling this kid. They don't understand what they want to do with their lives because they've been told by their parents, you should do this, you should do that. And that is a very uncomfortable place to be. And I think now that you have so much therapy online in your therapist and you people go to counseling now and understand that hey, there's a little manipulation there, or there's a little bit of you know, judgment on you, or there's a big control issue with
somebody in your close proximity. Then they start to see it and realize, hey, this hasn't been a relationship, it's been a dictatorship kind of a thing. And so is there ever a time doctor wes that that these people that don't want to connect with their family members other than abuse, because I think physical and mental abuse, you should get some space and get away from that person who's doing that to you. But like, is there a
way that they can communicate before you cut ties? Because when you stop connecting, it's hard to reconnect after that. You go two years without texting your mom and dad or calling them or anything like that, that's hard to come back from. So is there a way to kind of stop that from happening before it gets to the sure?
Well, it can people. The way I assess it, when a family comes in my office, I'm noticing who's speaking and who's not speaking, And then I'm noticing are they using I language I think, I feel I'm going to do this? Or is one person looking at the other person and saying, I don't know, what do you think? Or is someone talking over the other person. You can
start to see the patterns of the family. So the way that yes, we can stop this if a therapist or somebody helps the family members start to feel strong enough to say this is what I think and I feel, and I'm going to do this. We can still be in relationship with each other, right, And we can disagree.
Right, and you can step out of the roles for a minute and just see this individual person for who they are. That's right, right, five three seven four ninety seven thousand. We do want this show to be interactive. This is something that I want to hear from the listeners. I want to hear from you. I want you to add either your story or your point of view. Is it is it? Are the roles really changing? Is it
the mom should be respected no matter what? Or is it moved more towards a relationship where you have this open dialogue and both people understand that it takes two people to have a relationship, not one. Right. It's it's no matter how well intended you are, if you're not letting somebody be who they are, then that's a problem. Let's hear from you Channing for a second. Because I was talking to doctor Wesh your dad, and I was saying how affable and easy it is to talk to
You're fourteen years old, How did you? How did you get to be so open and friendly and and talkative and that type of person at fourteen.
I think I've always been like that from like a very young age. I've just always been a very like talkative person. I would always just like make small talk with like people who I like, didn't know. But I also think I've been through so much therapy that I think it's helped me. Like it's helped me know myself better than like anybody else, Like it's helped me understand my feelings more. And because I think as we grow up, as like we all mature and grow up, we have
like big, bigger feelings. Like whenever you were like younger, like if you were sad, it would just be sadness. But like now it's like if you're sad, it's like, oh, it's like staying so then it's like turns into like a deeper feeling.
So I think, interesting, Yeah, I think that's how Wait until you start paying bills and going out with Yeah, that's that's when the story gets a little bit crazier too. By definitely, once you start paying bills and once you start your first heartbreak from your boyfriend right or or you know those types of things or friends too. Channing like you have friend breakups too, and you're kind of going through that right now. I am, Okay, So how are you handling that at fourteen years old?
I'm just I'm It's definitely hard, Don't get me wrong, especially when I've been friends with this girl since I was so young. I mean, me and her have made so many good and countless memories. But I think looking at it from the bigger picture and like asking myself, like, is this friendship doing me any good? And you know, I'm trying. I'm just kind of taking it one day at a time. I'm like, I'm not being mean to her,
I'm not holding a grudge. I'm just kind of like being there and just kind of letting everything be because I think I've, like with friendship breaks up breakups, I have like the tendency to like want to solve it like right then and there. Yeah, So I think I'm just trying my best to just let things be.
I think that's a really really good approach to that. Let people be who they are, let them do what they need to do, and if you're meant to be friends. Just like any relationship, you'll come back together. Now, I notice that you and your dad have a pretty good relationship right off the bat. I can tell that you guys communicate with each other. What is it that he does right as a parent.
He's just my dad and my mom included. They're just both there for me, Like they're there, like they're they're not like trying to like control me, because I know y'all talked a lot about like parents like controlling and stuff like that.
They don't do that.
They very much just like are there for me, and they're just they just want me to be happy. So it's like whatever that is, they're gonna support me the best of their ability and just I think that really helps because it leaves a lottery room for just me.
To for just me to be myself. Is it nice to hear your daughter say that is?
Absolutely yeah. I think that my strategy all along with her has not to be an authoritarian parent where I'm like laying down the law. It's more of giving her boundaries and saying you can choose within these boundaries what's best what you feel like is best for you.
Yeah. For instance, we were we went and got a smoothie before on air, and we were talking about her cheerleading and she doesn't know whether she wants to continue, right, And you said, well, I think it's very stressful and I don't think you should do it, but it's your decision, correct, So you give your advice and she knows that it's up to her and you're going to support her either way. Sure,
I mean really, that's what else? What else do you want from a parent in terms of like guidance, right, You want them to be honest with you and tell you your you know how how they feel. Sometimes people will say, you know you're doing cheerleading because you've already done it four years and if you have one more year, then you're going to have this amount of you know this and this and this, or you've got you know
and and it's and it's pressure. Like I bought you this trumpet you said you wanted to play, you don't like it, you're not turning back now, you're doing it, right, So that's also like, you know, that's.
An authoritarian parents, and we don't want and the lase fair would be the opposite extreme, where you just don't have any boundaries for your kids, right, yeah, whatever, they whereas I'm trying to be right in the middle. I'm trying to get a you know, it's in between lase fear parenting and authoritarian parenting.
So well, and it's a fine, it's fine. I am not a parent. I don't have any kids, and it's it's it's an interesting thing because all my sisters have kids and we have a really big family. In fact, brother and a sister of mine I don't contact. I have no contact with them. And it happened over my mother's estate when she died. So it was a money issue,
which is absolutely dreadful to ruin a relationship over. But I have you know, there's four of us, the sisters that we're all very close and go on sister's trip with. So I understand that there are needs to not have any contact with people that are no longer interested in your in my well being, and it's just you know, there's no good positive communication. So yeah, there's a time to let go of those relationships. Is there is that a healthy boundary to say, up, I just can't speak
to this person, whether they're family or not. You hear me talk about the four horsemen all the time.
Right.
That can apply for not just romantic relationships, that's for family really, that's just for any relationship. So when you're getting into an element of contempt and that you're better than some yes, that is appropriate time to cut off because you're going to do more damage to the relationship if you're just critical and defensive and you're stone walling each other and you're holding each other in contempt, you think you're looking down upon each other. Yeah, it's just
not healthy. It's not healthy at all. There's a lot of and that can lead to a lot of your own anxiety and stress and mental disorders, and.
So it's almost for the health of yourself and for both people. Yeah, for both people, it's time to take some space. We're going to talk about how to reconcile some of these things and some of the problems that you know, we face as a society in especially during the holidays, where it's supposed to be all family and all friends and everybody's going to be cheery, and sometimes it's not like that for some people. We'll be back in just a few minutes. Donna d with Doctor West
Saturday Night. It's seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.
I love it.
It's a snowy you guys came in from Nashville, so snow. You got a nice little Thanksgiving present. There you go. We should get some snow all day tomorrow. I think, oh my goodness, I had to check my weather. I did just listen to it though. By the way, Donna d with doctor Wes licensed marriage family Therapist, Thanks for
coming in. I love doing the show with you. And we're been talking about you know, it's a beauty full time Thanksgiving, we're coming into Christmas, we're at the end of the year, New Year's and things like that, and there's a lot of people that are estranged in their families. Right now. We're talking about how the roles have changed from respecting your parents and having them. You know, you're the mom, you're the dad. You do what I say to the kids.
I'm the mom.
I'm the dad. You do what I say too. Let's have a relationship because that's we're the roles are shifting. It's not just mom and dad. You tell me what to do and I'll do it. It's I have a life and I want to have control of it. I respect you, I'm always gonna respect you, but have a little bit of a distance. Don't control everything. Now, you counsel a lot of couples, but you also do families as well.
That's right.
And we were talking about earlier how you can notice the roles within the family while you're counseling them and those that interrupt, those that don't speak very much and at the floor, so you can tell what types of family dynamics they are just by coming in the room. Now, how do you handle some of these things that you find within communication flaws maybe would say, or different types of patterns you see within the family.
Well, first thing I do is I call it out. I just name.
It, like what, so somebody is interrupting I keep interrupting you.
Yeah, and I'll just say, hey, I'm noticing let me interject for a minute. I'm going to interrupt you for a minute, right, And I say, I'm noticing that that's a pattern for you that you tend to interrupt or you speak for someone else. And I'm wondering what's happening for you, what's going on in your body, what's happening in your feelings in your are you are you feeling anxious?
Are you feeling that your heart rate is increasing, is your body temperature, are you feeling like flushed in your face? What's happening for you that causes you to feel the need to interject? And then what's your goal in doing that?
What do you think interrupting means? Because I know a lot myself included my interrupt go fake here. But I I'm also a good listener too, so I don't have an agenda to interrupt. Sometimes I just have something that I think is absolutely amazing. I want to say and say it. What is? What is it though that some somebody constantly interrupts.
There's a couple of different I do think that there's there's different types of interruptions. There is the one that's just the person has is excited to get it, get in their message. They're they're so excited and passionate about the dialogue that they just they don't have the ability to in that moment, their brain just kind of just takes over.
And that's not that's not the person you were talking about. That's what is the person that you're talking about in your office that keeps.
Saying that person, that person feels the need to control uh huh, and that come from fear. Yeah, in my opinion it comes from and in my clinical assessment of the family, it's whenever someone starts, whenever the family starts to get a little bit too autonomous. People are starting to speak their mind a little bit more. The person who's in charge of the family starts to get a little afraid.
Okay, right, they're not listening to me anymore. I have no more authority. They're going to go do what they want and nobody's going to care what I think anymore. That's right, right, So what happens to the to the mom or the dad that doesn't say anything or much, the one that keeps quiet, what is that they about?
They end up developing bitterness and resentment. They end up well, they also have fear. They're afraid of the repercussions, usually of the criticism, the contemptuous. Usually the person who's in charge has there are family rules. There are definitely family rules, and they learned that if I, if I challenge, then I'm going to have this repercussion coming back on me, and I don't want that repercussion, whatever that might be.
So it is power and control and the family rules are here ad here too until a therapist comes like me comes up, and my job is to start to learn the family rules. It's like a family game that these families play, and I'll start learning charge schoos in charge. And then how do you send messages back to each other? And what are the even the messages of silence? Silence is a messenger too. When people are silent, they're speaking, they're sending a message.
You know that means because I to be honest, the silent treatment is the worst kind of pain.
Oh it is.
I absolutely hate this. You can yell at me. I would prefer you yell at me, then give me the silent treatment. It's like you're turning your back on me. There's nothing I can do if my partner does not engage. And so what is the silent treatment about. That's power, that's control. It is of course it's stone walling, exactly, stonewalling. Just ignore the other person. And and what a what a horrible thing to do to somebody?
Is it?
Because somebody is always interrupting? Is that why?
I mean?
Is that why people say forget it? You don't care what I have to say anyway? So I'm not going to.
Say, well, that's actually called fawning. So there's fight, Yeah, there's flight, Yeah, there's freeze, and there's fawning. Those are the responses that typically people take, and falling.
Fawning kind of sounds like a nice thing.
It's all it's like, okay, fine, you know whatever it's I'm going to give up. I'm going to stop arguing. I'm going to stop you. You have it your way, Yeah, you have it your way.
Well I don't. I think that's apathy and I don't think that's good for any real No, of course not no, but no, that's that's a that's a terrible thing. Five one three for a hundred, the big one. How have the holidays been for you so far? Has it been a fun festive thing? Have you have you never had an issue with your family? Or is it hard for you right now? We want to hear from you. Five
one three sevenber nine, seven thousand. So there are some ways to reconcile with family members that you've not had contact with for a few a few years or a few months, or even a few days. Sometimes people really need space, and when they do, you should give it to them. But doctor West, when a does it become
a problem, like when when? When is the space that they need getting too long, right, Like all right, clearly they just want to be away from me, right, they don't want to speak to me at all, or you know, three days is three Three days is a long time too.
Yeah, three days is a long time. Typically, Like I tell couples to take breaks from each other, but I try and have them do a repair attempt within the same day. Yeah, right, I don't want them to go into the next day, right, So I would encourage families to do the same thing that take take that break. If you know, at their dinner table, if all hades is breaking loose, then just everybody go and chill out
for a little bit. Thirty minutes is what you really need to help your brain to kind of calm down and then come back together and say, okay, let's talk about let's go around the room, and and everybody you're listening, not to agree to or to disagree, you're listening, just to listen. And everyone says, this is what I feel in this moment. It's not about I think, it's what I feel, right, focus on feelings and then everything.
About acknowledging that somebody has these feelings.
That's what Yeah, exactly right, That's the next step is that the people will then acknowledge that what I hear you saying is that you are feeling hurt in this, in this dialogue that we just had.
Okay, so acknowledging listen, you need space. So there's clearly some kind of break in our communication. So I get that, but I want us to come together. So I'm gonna I just want you to say whatever it is you want to say, and I'm going to listen. I'm gonna listen, and then I'm going to echo back what I heard you say. And then I'm going to say what I know about you meant that makes sense to me. That's validation, right.
That doesn't mean I agree with you. It just means what I know about you and our relationship, I can see how you would feel that way. Okay, So how important? And I think it's pretty important, Which is the question. I want you to validate me on this west self reflection, right, And and I want to talk to Channing in a moment about this, because she and I talked about this early on. And Dick, I'll get to you in a minute. Self reflection is important whether you're in or not in
a conflict. Right, always observing what how you are with yourself and other people? Yes, would you call that a top three thing?
Oh?
Absolutely, a top three Yeah. I'm teaching all of my clients to be really self aware of what they're thinking, what they're feeling at all times. That's really a daily occurrence. Like in the morning, what am I feeling?
I'm frustrated? I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, so like, I really need to pay attention to how I'm treating people today because I can already feel a little frustration. Let's go to Dick and Dayton. Dick, how you doing? Nice to speak to you?
Happy holidays? Yeah, I would just tell it you're good. To talk to you, I would just telling you're on my dad's side. That live order Ohio and uh, I look forward to every year. When I was young, the family and the cousins developed a relationship and music like the uh ah it with Italian music, and I learned
river Boat and uh all of us. I think you know, I played in two or three group, but I find relationships like at your church or like you go to social groups like music and uh just things like that, you know, like singles clubs and stuff, and uh I always was. Uh I still play my music and you know, I get around and stuff. But I think that's something that you get from your family, know what I'm saying.
Yeah, so my my family was musical as well, and my mom used to play world music and she's from Canada, so she would play all kinds of fun and you know, yeah, people I've never heard. I've always, you know, for the last probably thirty years, played guitar and there's all my exsh time.
Actually I started a mandolin, but I can play you now.
Too, uh huh. But it is its too, you know, it's a different dick. Thank you so much for Colin. I appreciate it. Happy holidays. Nice to hear from you too, Thank you here, welcome by bye. So it is a different dynamic to when you connect with another like some sort of a side project or some sort of you know, like music brings the family together. That's that's also you know, everyone lay the Partridgs family who didn't want to be the Partridge family growing up? Do you even know who
the Partridge family is? Channing? No, Well, let's get to Channing here real quick, because we talked about this in self reflection you're fourteen years old. Your doctor, I understand your doctor Wes's daughter, and you have had a therapy in your whole life, and he's a counselor and things like that. What do you do to to look at yourself and reflect on how you're feeling, how you're doing.
I'm trying to think. I always like to ground myself.
I feel like grounding myself, like I would like That's one like the coping strategies that I've learned is like placing my feet on the ground, or sometimes if like I'm having really big feelings, then I'll just like I'll lay on the ground, like I'll literally lay flat on my back and I will like do like five things I can see, like stuff like that, And it kind of helps ground myself with my emotions because like I oftentimes have big emotions, like if I'm feeling mad, I
just need to ground myself and breathe.
So I often do that a lot. Do you feel like, because you're in such a different generation, do you feel like the cell phone and social media and your computers are they a burden or a blessing?
They're honestly, I feel like they're both. Yeah, but I feel like they can also be a burden because I tell my parents all the time, I'm like, guys, I think I was supposed to be born in the two thousands, because like, I like my cell phone. I love my cell phone. I spend way too much time on it. Yeah, but I feel like it takes me away from like the world. Like I feel like once I get on my phone and I just start doom scrolling, I just feel like it just takes me.
And it can be an hour or longer before you even feel like, oh my gosh, i'ven't taken a deep breath. I don't know what time it is, I haven't talked to any friends or family, or you know, I haven't been outside right back in the day. And even doctor West is younger than me. We we never I didn't even have a cell phone until I was twenty two, twenty four, and certainly there was no social media, thank heavens. When I was growing up, we spend all of our
time outside. We did, you know, we had you know, seven kids, so they would go go go get them and we'll play, you know, breakout up at the top of the hill. You know, So I miss that for your generation. I really wish you guys had more of outdoor time, more social time with friends, and you know what I mean, Like that's such a big deal. And even parents, myself included, are on their phones. So even when you get off your phone, probably a parent is
on their phone. And it's like we communicate fifteen twenty minutes in a day, And how the heck does that positive? Right?
Yeah, Like I was having a meal with my mom and my sister the other day and I finally got off my phone.
I looked up in there on their phone, just exactly, like, let's everybody. I even make it a point like when we're all having dinner, like everybody put their cellphones away, because that's the least we can do, have one hour together and look each other in the eyes.
How important is that, doctor West. It's very important. It's absolutely important. It's the digital divide. It's it's actually a it's actually like a third party in the relationship. It's like you're having a it's like an a fair right, it really is. It's like you have developed this relationship with your phone.
No. I totally understand because some times when I go long periods and I'm out of town and I and I you know, I've been at events and I even't had my phone. I like to be alone with my phone and catch up on all the things that I missed. It's like Christmas morning. It's terrible.
It's guaranteed validation though, I mean, you can get validated on that phone.
It's like, how are we We can we can watch movies, we can order food, we can order any services or product that we want online. We can social media, we can text, we can email, we can call. I mean, it's everything inch of gratification, but it's also exhausting and mind bending control with the addiction of the cell phones.
I saw on the news yesterday it was at least fifty percent of the population of adults reports being lonely.
Yeah.
Yeah, but yet we're so connected, right.
But it's it's electronics. So it's not where we're three looking at each other in the studio and we see each other's eyes and I can see channing nodding when she's agreeing with me. There's a there's a real connection. I mean, we don't we all know this, but there's a real connection when you're out in the world and you put your cell phones down. We got to take
a quick break. When we come back, we're gonna lighten it up a little bit and talk about holiday parties and what is the worst bad behavior you've ever seen at a holiday party? Ours is coming up on Wednesday. Everybody has holiday parties coming up, so we're gonna get into that. And even Sterling, I think, is gonna call in for this one because we were both together at the holiday party last year. Donnade along with doctor Wes
and Channing Saturday Night, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati. Wooh, it's a cold one twenty It's thirty five but feels like twenty five. There's a winter weather advisory. In effact we were it was snowing when we came in, so it's that's kind of nice. And it is the time of year to have snow. If we're gonna have snow, it's be around Thanksgiving and Christmas. Don and d Saturday Night, seven hundred WLW alongside doctor West, who I always love when you're in the studio with me and you drive
a long way, not that far. I mean, I don't want to be ridiculous about it. You come out of Nashville, that's right, I do. What was the temperature in Nashville when you left.
What was it, Channing, do you remember.
Seventy sixty seventy I'm on it, guys. It was pretty it was.
It was not what is here, I can tell you that much.
We've got Channing. It's okay, we got it. It was warmer than it is here in Cincinnati. So but again, you know, this is the time where we have holiday parties and Thanksgiving and Christmas and love them or hate them. I mean, I was just telling you, doctor Wes. I had a Tuesday event last week, a Wednesday, a Thursday, obviously in Thanksgiving, and I had my girlfriends over Friday. So four nights in a row. That that's why I have no makeup on in the studio and I look absolutely hidious.
But no negative self talk.
I know, I know, but only if it's only if it's in humor, and it is. So We've got our Christmas party, our holiday party on Wednesday this week, and I have another one on Friday and Saturday. My co host. In the weekends. We were supposed to be on three to six, but you see football kind of canceled us. Sterling is on with me right now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we should have been on Bearcats could have waited.
And not lost, but and then they had lightning to lay.
And now it's snowing, and Doc West in the future of the world channing. There's rain, probably in Nashville, but you get to experience some snow.
That's right, That's exactly right. Hey, at least all the other Cincinnati teams have won. I know you watched the Big Game Thursday night with Joe Burrow. How amazing was that?
Sterling couldn't ask for much more?
I mean, he came back unbelievable, settled in. Yeah, it's ridiculous. I'm trying not to interrupt. I'm afraid that I'm an interrupt or. I was listening and I'm thinking, is this all directed at me? Is this like an intervention? Do I have a problem beyond what I already know to be a problem. No, this isn't solve deprecation. I'm just trying to be better.
No, Sterling. What happened was, I was talking to Tom Brenneman one the other day and I said, you know, he said, I think you and Sterling sounds so great, but you got to listen more instead of interrupting him. He's only and I said, but Sterling goes on forever. I got to interrupt him.
I really, you know why, because I'm an only child, and usually it's the voices in my head and I'm but I try to listen. I know enough to know that I need to listen more because I don't know enough.
We all have to listen more. That's the whole point of this show, by the way. Uh So, speaking of so we're gonna lighten it up a tiny little bit. And what's the worst thing you can do at a holiday, work party or otherwise any kind of bad behavior? And I'm going to give you the number one answer, Sterling, of what is the absolute worst thing that you can do? And you've never done it? I have, but not really bad.
The worst thing you can do is get too tipsy, drinking too much eggnog and anything else like that, getting to hit the bottle hitting the bottle, right, I mean, and you know we have open bar. You know at our most holiday parties are going to have some festive drinks on the menu. Right, But what have you seen that you would consider bad behavior? And just know we're all getting together on Wednesday.
Well, I think you hit it right off the bat. I mean, you got to know your limits and you know, open bar or otherwise. One if it's work related, keep it together because it's not really fun time, as much as it may be social, and you're not there to make an assy yourself. Pardon my expression, Channing, I apologized. I am wholesome and naive to the ways of the world, no matter how bad my language. But I think that's probably the worst. I've never seen much when it comes
to business party kind of scenarios. But when I worked at Hara Arena as a teenager growing up, I had a chance a couple of times to get extra work because they used to have a convention center facility and they would do banquets and parties, holiday season, graduations, wedding stuff. All that stuff was huge business for them. And a couple of times holiday season one I saw someone get so messed up. They like trashed a couple of Christmas trees.
That were so oh yeah, they were a mess. It was entertaining.
I didn't have to clean it up, and it wasn't my tree, bulbs and all the decorations, but was that was ugly And that was I think a little over indulgence, you.
Know, Okay, have you ever witnessed And I don't know that I've ever seen it, but I you know how we always talk about sterling. We see all these fights on x and Instagram and stuff like that. Have you ever seen a fight at a holiday party, like like friends getting into a fistfight or something like that, because that would be pretty bad.
It's not at a holiday party, but at a wedding reception. I saw that once and it was a couple of guys. I think you'd had maybe too much of the brown liquor and got stupid.
But I think that's worse. If there's anything worse than getting into a fight at a holiday party, please tell me what that is. Even if somebody's gotten a little too tipsy and they've been drinking too much in their slurners and that kind of stuff, and it's not a good look, but they're not bothering anybody. Putting your hands on people is probably the worst thing you can do.
I don't know what let up do it. I only got to see a little of the interaction and they were pulled out of it. But at a holiday party get together, sometimes people their inhibitions clearly are lower after a little bit of say lubrication or intoxication of one type or another.
And I've seen.
People that have a couple of times not work as far as I know, or you know, end up in a situation like in a coat room or something like that where there might have been some type of romantic kind of vibe going on in the season under the missiletoe, what have you, but not making too much of a nuisance of themselves. I mean, people will get excited and happy and romantic and stuff sometimes, but yeah, I've seen some vomiting. I've seen some trees knocked down.
You know.
The big thing I think is just, I mean, handle yourself an act that it's like New Year's it's amateur nights, So you've got to act like you've been there before.
Right by the way, flirting with someone who's taken is on the list, sterling. So you kind of hit the nail on the head with you know, somebody that's uh, you know, going into a coat room or or just grabbing the missile toe and putting it over somebody's head.
Have you ever had that grabbing something else?
You thought I was going to say that, doctor West, what what is the what is the getting too drunk thing or you know, getting into it. What what what would cause somebody who's a rational person to just do something like that at a holiday party?
Well, I think the obvious answer there would be just they just want to have fun, They want to kick back, they want to lower their inhibitions and and experience themselves differently with the coworkers. But obviously that doesn't go well.
Okay, so they're buttoned up at work all the time. But this is a radio station, so like we we you know, kind of have fun with each other all the time. Anyway, Sterling, I was just talking about this just as a side note to Sterling and I have been that we're closing up on three years over three years together, and we've not been that long. It has been that long because our Instagram is done twenty twenty three, so we're getting to.
Feel that long or longer. See that's my word is that like deep down you're like, uh, this is really feeling like a long time, like you in something in a bad situation. It goes fast because you're having a good time. Yeah most of our shows do, yes, but it's going bad. You feel like time is stopped and that I don't want to be the guy causing that you're not.
I would yes, and you, but I have a question because because I'm not.
Good at that, I'm better at asking questions than answering. It's it's very it's go ahead. I'm sorry, that's I'm not I'm just against all right?
Zip it? Man? What you you? Literally? You and I have never had one conflict, not one. And in the in the radio industry, that's kind of a that's kind of a big deal when you're on air with somebody. Now we only do weekends together other and fill ins and stuff like that, but in three years we've never even had an argument across word or or anything like that. Sterling, what do you what do you attribute that to? Am I just like the nicest person to work with?
Oh yeah, you know, just the most amazing, incredible, super talented start and all those things, and you know, and you shower for me and get put makeup on when you show up like that.
What I heard you say earlier.
Not tonight, I couldn't do it.
I couldn't do it me either. Uh here here's I have a question for you though.
Is it that unusual to work with someone in that because see, I'm not used to working with a partner, although the last couple of years we have and it doesn't seem irregular to not have a conflict. It seems okay, and we both seem to you know, if there's an idea that we have about a topic or a direction of the conversation, we seem to be a good match. I'll blame Rhino because he was like, I know who you need to work with, and he's a fan and this, that and the other, and then and it's the greatest
thing ever. I don't want to I mean, so I don't know, are you just holding it in and waiting to like really like snap, like one of those people who just doesn't say anything.
And then mindly it's like, it's true.
It is true. That's true. Because couples that don't argue, and I'm calling you all a couple, a radio a work couple.
It's my radio husband.
Okay, that's fine. Couples that don't argue, they don't they don't fare very well, they don't do very well.
But what if couples only see each other once or twice a week, because maybe Sterling, it is unusual for me because I would be.
On working people you fought with regularly.
Not regularly, but like fought with I mean like five days a week and then a four hour show and then you know, show prep before, show prep after. So I'm literally eight hours with this person five days a week, and then sometimes on the weekends for remotes and things like that. So so yeah, I would say it's unusual that we've gone three years, and I am applauding us even though doctor West is concerned. I am applauding us.
I'm concerned that the good doctor is concerned.
Maybe we need to get into a fight.
And in fact, at.
The holidays, I'm the clients in everybody.
Yeah, and this place is packed, Sterling, let's totally get into a.
Fight to do it Wednesday.
I don't even know what I would argue with you about. That is the craziest thing. What would I argue with Sterling about he's.
The nicest not wearing a blazer.
Yes, that would that would would work if.
You brought up numerous times from the last year, since last Christmas time, And the only reason I didn't have it was because I over rebar on the freeway in construction. I had other stuff to worry about, and swinging back by to get the cod.
I'm like, I'm all right.
Over here, Jack.
He showed up. He showed up at the Christmas party, and he was so flustered because he got a flat tire on the way and I was like, what happened to your blazer? He was like, I can't.
I don't even care. I'm just glad to be here. Where's a drink?
Sterling? I love you.
I mean that.
And we've been together for so long, for three years. I'm not that I'm going anywhere, but I'm glad that you stayed up and called and and we get.
To going somewhere.
No, yeah, you're gonna go. You're gonna go to the Christmas party on Wednesday. That's why are you.
Done with me?
Now?
It sounds like you're closing this up, doctor West. I mean, is this over now?
Is that what you're saying about a fight? And this is ending?
I've got my hand on the mouse.
You got a Prematurelotte, click me off. I understand. I do it all the time.
You do do it all the time, Sterling. I love you, love you, love you to death. Thank you for calling in.
Well, Channing, I didn't even get to talk to Channing. Channing, let me just tell you you sound so smart and well put together and fully like functional and mentally like together, emotionally and fantactically. I could not have been on the radio talking the way you were talking. And I realized, Donna can make you very comfortable. Obviously, your pops is someone who's well educated and experienced and interpersonal stuff in therapy.
But as a dad, I mean, how do you feel so comfortable in that environment doing what you did in the conversation I heard earlier.
I have no idea. I think I've just it's just I just talked to a lot of people. So once I get comfortable with somebody, I'm just I'm there, Like, yeah.
It is. It is a good question. And because we were just talking about this, there's a new study that preteen preteen girls specifically have high anxiety. They're there there. It's really based on phone usage and social media, and you were just talking about how it does affect you because when people are doing things and stuff and you see them all happy and you're not invited talk about that.
Well, yeah, I catch myself getting down a lot on myself because I have always.
Struggled with friends.
I've always like, I've always felt really out of place wherever I'm at, and I've been trying to find like my friend group. So just scrolling on TikTok and seeing all my like other like friends or the people that I go to school with them having their friend groups, it just it really makes me feel down on myself because I'm like, am I falling behind? Like oh my gosh, my life is like not together, and it just it
makes me feel super super down about myself. And I'm constantly comparing myself to other people like, oh my gosh, like her body, like I wish I had that, or like I wish I had this, and it's just it's it's.
Really so when you say you catch yourself when you see yourself doing that and it doesn't feel good, like it feels terrible to do that, how do you pull yourself out of that? Talking to people?
Like sometimes I'll be text I'll text my mom and I'll be like, Mom, I'm like I'm having a moment where I'm just I'm feeling really down on myself and she'll talk me through it, which really helps me because it just she validates my emotions because she knows that I experience this, so it makes me feel better just communicating with other people because it doesn't feel good, and never I bottle stuff in.
It really doesn't know. And you do get a lot of therapy from you know, a certain counselor that you're seeing, and certainly your dad is a big support as well. Because listen, these sterling we were talking about this earlier, how in our day we used to you know, be outside all the time. You talk about being a free range kid, and you used to have you know, friends and your free break latch key kid. You used to go and get yourself into all kinds of trouble, but we would.
Play an adventure. I wouldn't say trouble.
Adventures, right. But kids now they get off the bus, they go home, they lay on their bed in their four hours on social media and scrolling and all that other. Different homework isn't even way different homework isn't even done. It's it's it's now the the iPhone, the social media, and it gets depressing. And a lot of times you probably wouldn't even be depressed if you didn't doom scroll is what we all call it.
Time to unplug a little bit, and that's got to be hard. I can't imagine coming up now the way you are chanting and others of your generation in that situation.
But to just know that that.
They may not necessarily be real, and it's good to have a close circle of friends and just I know time is shorter coming up on the tenth report, of course, I will say that it's situation where you are talking about friends and so forth. I moved around a lot through the first part of high school and stuff. I didn't fall into the same a good group of friends that was steady until I was probably fifteen sixteen, Yeah, and it was by happenstance, and the same group of
friends a part of that. I am now in my mid fifties and it is like brotherhood. Yeah, and the guys that I've grown up with and non longer than we've not known each other in.
Our lives and that's what.
Yeah, And you may find that, So don't worry about it. In time, it'll do it. I mean, you just just be yourself and not worry about all the social media, which is easy for me to say because I'm going to hang up and you know, go along with my day and you're living it.
All right, I'm gonna text. I'm going to text in a minute, Sterling, thank you so much. Coming up. Oh oh oh, he does it all the time too.
How the turntable?
How the turntables? Exactly? He does it all the time. Coming up. Uh, we're going to talk about something you used to value that you no longer value. It's the end of the year. We're gonna take sock. We're all gonna look at what and how this year has been. When we have Channing in doctor Wess in the studio with me. It's donn a d seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.
Listening to a woman shop in the produce section isn't funny?
Yeah, a sail on cucumbers.
Listening to a woman poot next to the Granny Smiths oops is funny. Eddie and Rocky are also funny. So when you think of an apple farterer oops, think of Eddie and Rocky, Eddie and Rocky.
Monday afternoon at three.
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Home to the Rachel Meadows Show. More nice because it's the holiday and we get snow flurries and just a beautiful night in Cincinnati. Boy, the Bengals game was so good Thursday, Joe Burrow's return and he killed it Ohio State one. We won't talk about ucsarr Sean Sean McMahon producing the show tonight. I am Donna Dee with doctor Wes crafton, licensed Marriage Family Therapist in from Nashville to do the show. We've also had your daughter on and Channing.
You have been just an unbelievable sport giving us the insight to a fourteen year old girls that are you know, understanding some of the challenges that you face as a child and the bullying and the social media stuff overall. Because we're coming to a close of this year, how are you doing and how has twenty twenty five been for you?
Twenty twenty five has been definitely a year of growth. I feel like I have learned so many new things. I've made good memories, I've made mistakes, but ultimately it's been a year of growth.
Okay, So I love that and it's been a year of growth for me. And that's really all you can if you're if you're growing and you're becoming more loving to yourself and others, what else is there?
Right?
What? That's really the key to living? But so what the question that I want to know, and I want to open up the phone lines too as well. What is something you used to value that you no longer value? Right? So five one three seven four nine seven thousand. We have had guests on the show tonight and not a lot of callers, so call in for this segment here. Five one three seven four nine seven thousand. What did you used to value that you no longer value? Doctor Wes.
I'm going to start with you on this and it can be pretty personal. You do whatever you want to do.
Yeah, I think I'm going into next year with an intention of self love and so that means I'm going to be leaving behind so much of the opinions of others.
Okay, so valuing the what you used to value.
Would be the opinions of others and their approval.
Yeah, yeah, so you're leaving that behind. I think that is a very courageous choice. And you know the quote that I love from Mikaela Catherine Jones, which is it's none of my business what other people think of me, right, And and that can be written on your arm if you want to, just as a reminder, because it really messes you up when you care about what other people think of you, and that is something we have all struggled with. It's like, did I make a fool of myself?
Did I do something stupid? And now they're talking about me? But it really doesn't matter because everybody makes mistakes. Everybody does. So Channing, what would you say, what what is something that you value that you no longer value? Specific friendships? Okay? Yes, okay, So so friendships that you've had that you value that you no longer put in that pedestal of she's one of my bff. Okay, and how is that going for you?
It's definitely been hard because a lot of these friendships that I don't value as much as I value like new connections that I've made.
Yeah, it's definitely been.
Hard because I mean, I've had such great memories with those specific friendships, but I just have just learning that those friendships might not be for me and it might not benefit me, you know, Like, Yeah.
It's one of the hardest things to do is let people go, definitely, and it's a very courageous thing to do because if a relationship is not serving you anymore, then you really do have to let go. One of the things that I used to value that I no longer value on another level. I thought I was over this, and then here comes another level of it that I have to learn from. And that happens to me all the time. But needing to feel right, I don't feel
like I need to be right anymore. I just and and when I always felt like I need to be right, I made somebody else wrong and that doesn't feel good either, So that doesn't matter to me anymore. I'd rather take people for who they are, let them, let them Book by Mel Robbins is also a really big thing of like, okay, so he doesn't want to text you, It doesn't blah
blah blah this and that, let them right. It's kind of of along those lines, and take people and have compassion, understand people make mistakes, and it's not about right or wrong. It's about appreciating for somebody for who they are. Maybe they're showing me that that's who they are. And then you have to make a choice like you are doing right now, Channing, and you have to let some of
those friendships that have been close to you. You kind of let them go, and if they're real friendships, they come back, or real love affairs, they come back, but let them go, and that's kind of hard to do.
Sure it is. Yeah, there's a quote that I love that I just hung up in my place and it says, in the end, only three things matter. You may know this, donna, how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you.
Yeah, because if you don't. I hadn't heard that, but I agree with it. If you don't let things go that are not working for you, how in the world are you going to open up to something that would be a thousand times more like you, or better for you, or more productive, or you know, to help you grow? How would you do that if you're hung up on yep, on something that's not working for you anymore? Five one, three, seven, four nine, seven thousand, one eight hundred The big one?
What did you used to value that you no longer value anymore? You've grown out of hanging your hat on something, right, You've grown grown out of of dealing with with toxic people just because Wow, I've invested so much in this friendship. I've invested so much in this relationship, But every other sign is saying you need to run and you need to. Why is it that we hold on so much? Wess? Why why is it that we Why is letting go so hard?
I mean, I hate to go back to the same old answer over and over again. But fear is so it's so powerful. Fear, far of what being alone, fear of being alone, fear of not knowing yourself. You've identified yourself with people, You've identified yourself with relationships.
So who am I without this person? Exactly right? Yeah?
Who am I without them? How can I go on? What will my day to day life look like? Yeah, it's And it could be that you're an approval addict. I know I've certainly gotten caught up in that before, and I've I've been approved by this person, and so I have to have them in my life to feel that approval. And if they're not in my life, then I'm I'm not approved, right, I'm not okay, right?
And so if if it's boy, that is a tough circle right there. It really is, because if you if you're looking for approval or the it's the same thing I could say about wanting to be liked, right, And and hopefully Channing will turn her head set up on this, because this is really important. It's not about being You're not gonna not everybody's gonna get you, right, Not everybody is gonna understand who Channing is and and and get
every aspect of you. And then like you, there are gonna be some friends or some friends of friends that says something about her. I just don't mind when they're like, what did I do? I didn't, just myself. But the sooner you understand that not everything you do will everyone is going to get and you have to be okay
with that too. Yeah, And because otherwise you're just gonna what happens on the flip side, you can form and then you're inauthentic, right, And that's the worst when you're when you don't mean what you say and say what you mean. And I talk about this all the time, how important authenticity is. It's it's it's what the definition of auth authenticity is. Being authentic is say what you mean and mean what you say. And if there's any kind of confusion that you're sending a message out to
the universe. I want to date somebody, and somebody asks you and Lina, I'm happy being single, but you really want to date somebody. Then there's conflicting messages to the universe, and and you you don't get really what you intend, which is to date somebody or anything. I like this job, but you know, I don't know. I might want this promotion, but maybe not. Right, say what you mean, and mean what you say. If you want the promotion, go after it.
You'll probably get it for the most part, right right. So when you're inauthentic, which means you're not going to be liked by everybody, you have to be okay with that.
Yeah, And a lot of people are terrified of taking that step. So what do they do?
Look for approval from some other somebody else that's something, and they stay stuck in that cycle you're talking about, right right, is a terrible cycle. Okay, So we're going to talk about also. You know, the other thing I wanted to mention to was what do you want to have happened before the year ends?
Too?
My sister and I always take stock of how was twenty twenty five for you? A lot has happened to both of us. You know, I ended a relationship that I was in, so did she. She's in another one that is much more like her than the other one was, so, you know, there's there's things that that I have wanted to do in my career that I have done this year. There's there's things that I've done in terms of like giving service, fostering dogs. I've had three dogs that I've fostered,
one currently with me. What is something that you want to do before you close out twenty twenty five? Is there something you want to do?
Yeah, I need to let go of some things not meant for me, Like that quote says, yeah, yeah, there are certainly some things that I need to let go of, and I'm actively working to do that. Okay, but it is a daily choice for me, for all of us. Yeah, right, So letting go is one of the hardest things. And then when you realize, oh man, why did I hang on to that for so long, you realize I need to let go a little bit sooner I really do,
so letting go Channing, Do you have one? What do you want to do before twenty twenty five?
Ns?
I could think of some funny things that I want to do, but letting go to just learning to let go of these friendships and work towards making new ones.
There's a really good book, and I think you got it because I read it by doctor David Hawkins called letting Go, and it talks about the science of actually letting go. And when I mean, obviously, and we just touched on this point too, is when you let go, you absolutely open up opportunities. So you close the door, slam it shut, and then a window opens and then there's wow, there's new air, there's new light, there's new energy,
there's new passion, there's new fun. Right, So holding on seems a little a little I don't know, would you it's stifling because but it's so hard. It's so people have been in relationships for so long where I'm like, wow, they're still together? How they still together? How does that even work? They're still together. You've got to see this in your office all the time, too, where where there are relationships where you've said, all right, I don't think you guys should be together anymore.
Now I tell people that the relationship's over. It's the recurrent relationship, as you know, it is over. So your choices, you're in my office, the choices. We either work on helping you all separate in a healthy way, or we start a new relationship. But that has to begin with friendship.
Do you think the end of a year you have an opportunity to really figure out the things that you want. I mean, it's a looking back, but we're starting a new year in twenty twenty six. There's a resurgence, there's a renewal, there's a set of intentions. You want to How important is it to have goals like that in the beginning of a year and let go of some of the things that didn't work in twenty twenty five.
Well, I think that we are constructing our reality every day of our lives, and it's based on what we are the stories that we tell ourselves about our lives. So those in tensions are very important because that is exactly how your life will end up is based on the story you're telling yourself. And that's something that I oftentimes will challenge myself on what is the story I'm
telling myself in this exact moment. And I tell my clients that if they have a dip in their depression or their anxiety, what were you just thinking right before you had that dip in your mood?
You know?
I teach yoga on Saturday mornings, and one of the things I talked about is you know we have sixty to eighty thousand thoughts a day. Sixty to eighty thousand, and eighty to ninety percent of those thoughts are negative, repetitive, and useless. I mean, it is the same things we think about this morning that you think about tomorrow morning, and the same things. And so you literally have to alter and intentionally decide no, when I start going down
that rabbit hole, don't feel good. So you literally have to control your mind. Just as if you were to say, if you were to scream your name in your head, doctor Wes, Right now you scream your name, and then you can say it's softly, whisper it, whisper your name in your head. Right, you have control of your talk, your mind, talk, your chatter. You have control over it. The key is to become aware of it and then to as Wayne Dyer used to say, doctor Wayne Dyer,
change your thoughts, change your life. You get a whole buck. Yet about eighty of these books on changing your thoughts change your life, and it does work. Yeah, you have to become aware of it, and you have to be clear in what you want, right clear and what you want and what you're aware, and then that's where mantras come in and setting your intentions and things like that. You know, I can go down this road for hours an hour.
Yeah, that's a great I think something for twenty twenty six would be daily mantras. Doc what you said?
Yeah, like like things that you want, write it down and say it out loud as many times as you can. There's people that do these these chantings right before they go to bed, because you can get in a dream state and manifest it. So if you say things five times, I'm gonna be the first millionaire in my family, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a million b time by the
time I'm thirty years old. And you say these things over and over again right before you go to bed, and there's uh, there's that this has worked for people and how they have manifested it. It's pretty interesting. It's very interesting. All Right, we're up against clock. What's the scariest thing that can happen to you on a first date. We're going to get into yes, first date scenarios, worst, best, and everything in between. We are going there in the
eleven o'clock hours. Don Indeed, doctor Wes and Channing tonight along for the Ride, Saturday Night, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.
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Celebrate them.
It's done a d Saturday Night along with me, Doctor West, licensed marriage family Therapists out of Tennessee. So we're talking about we're talking about things that you want to do for the new year and things you want to leave behind, like old relationships and that could lead to dating.
Right.
I watched this comedian say what's the scariest thing that can happen to you on a first date? And she asked the men and the men said catfish.
Right.
So basically, oh, she doesn't look like her photos, right, She usual looks a little off catfishing is a real thing. I get it. I'm not saying it. But then she asked the ladies, what's the scariest thing that can happen to you on the first date? And they all said murder? Right, Yeah, you see how men and women look at things so differently.
You have to. Women have to in today's You just have to because of the risk of just the just the very differences between men and women. I mean, let's just talk about it, right.
You've got a daughter. I've got a daughter, Yeah, fourteen, she's Fourteen's going to be dating at some point, that's right. So how do you look at it as a dad as as you have to girl? Dads have to look at things a little bit differently.
Yes, absolutely they do. I have to be thinking about teaching her about how to be smart when it comes to protecting you know, her, not giving out all of her information, not be sharing her location, all of those things, you know, even the devices that we have right now, things like that. That's something that I'm talking to her about all the time. And and people that are trying to purchase purchase gifts for people, you know, trying to
groom them into these relationships. You got to be careful about that.
So yeah, when once you are online and you have social media, and I say this to parents all the time, I don't know how you do it because it's so scary for the kids out there, right, it can be so scary. And I know, Channing, you're shaking your head. There's uh, there's one there. It's not just the scary aspect of dating, because there's there's that, but it's also like sometimes very uncomfortable too, because when you're dating it
could feel like a job interview. It feels like you try and ask questions and you try and get to know somebody, but it's not always like I don't always feel like people are being one hundred percent honest. Like if you're an outdoors person and you say that you're an outdoor person, great, you go skiing and you know, play hoops with your friends on the weekends, whatever, that's great.
But if you're not, just say you're not. If you're a couch potato would like to watch football all day on Saturday and all day on Sunday, then just be honest about it. How important is it to be honest on the first date so that you can figure out whether you're a match because if you're saying you're outdoors and you're really not, maybe somebody that that would love a couch potato that stays home and watches sports all weekend,
there would be your perfect match. I wouldn't love that, you know, all weekend to stay home on the couch and watch sports. But you know sometimes on Sunday watch them bangles of course.
Yeah.
No, it's like layers of an onion for me. And for what I mean by that is you want to start with the just the basic small talk, but then you do I think need to just I think you need to in that second layer, be honest about who you are as a person, what your identity is as a person, and what you like and what you don't like. And so it's very important, I mean, But unfortunately, I think dating right now is a lot of It's like Donna, you and I have talked about it. It's like shopping
almost online. This online dating is like shopping, and people are putting out like the ad campaigns on themselves, Like there's certain pictures that they're putting off that aren't really who they are, and so they're trying to advertise themselves in such a way.
It's not a whole new world. It's right, it's not who they really are, that is the first. That is the thing I did in twenty twenty five that I never thought I was going to do is get on a dating app. And it's been interesting and I've met some very nice people. I think dating apps are great. I know so many people that have found matches on Bumble and the like that that are truly like in love,
in life partners. I mean, I have three people around me in my you know, in my close circle, that have found people on Bumble and and and it's been or or another dating app. And it's been a really good experience for some it's been terrible for others. And what makes it and I Doctor West, tell me if I'm wrong here, please, but I think what makes your experience on something that's uncomfortable, like a dating app or
whatever that could be uncomfortable, is your perspect perspective about it. Right, So if you say, listen, this is fun, I'm having I'm having fun. I like dating. I'm I'm I'm not ready to settle down yet. I'd like to meet somebody that I match with, but I'm okay with just dating for a while, and because I see some people put on like I can't wait to get off this app. I think it's terrible. Blah blah blah blah blah. How are you going to have a good experience?
If you're like that, you're not going to eat. But you can't be attached to an outcome. I think that's key. You cannot be attached to an outcome because if you're attached an outcome, you become imprisoned by that outcome.
Yeah, I completely agree. But even your perspective, perspective is everything it is. It's if it's a cold, snowy Cincinnati mourning and you got to go walk the dog. It can be fresh and beautiful and bundle up and cozy, you know all that's it just depends on how you look at things. And I really do feel like dating and dating apps are really important to pay attention to your perspective on it, as if it's not going to be good. I have people that are on there and
says it's the worst I can stand it. And then like I said, people that have found great people matches.
Yeah, the people that are on there, they're saying I getting on this app was the most horrible thing I've ever done. That they're not going to attract anyone. That's just negative energy. Yeah, who wants to date someone with negative energy? So no, that's not going to work. You know, you want to be able to be honest but also have a little bit of a positive attitude about it.
I think it's important. It is really important. Five three seven four ninety seven thousand. Everybody's been so quiet tonight. We've had a really good discussion. Tell me about this though. How do you feel about dating apps?
How do I feel about dating apps?
I'm asking the our asking our listeners. How do you feel about dating apps? How? How has it been for you? Have you found a match? This is how we all live now. Everybody is on dating apps. Channing, you're fourteen. Now, I'm not going to ask if you're dating. You're not dating anyone, right, Your dad is right here.
She's not dating anyone until she's late late twenties and then they have to put in the application to meet.
But you meet kids at school still, right? Is that how you do it? Now? You're fourteen, so you know I would suggest you going at least you know, three or four more years before you start. I mean that I am not exaggerating. Seventeen eighteen. Maybe that's when you start looking to like meet somebody and get your first experience of like actually having a love of your life kind of a thing.
Is that?
Have you experienced any kind of a minimal crush or something like that?
Yes, obviously crushes, I've experienced many throughout school. As far as like long term like relationships, I have not.
I have not yet. Well, you're fourteen. I literally said, I'm hoping.
To experience one, but I'm kind of just letting it happen how it's supposed to happen.
Okay, that's good.
Crushes Obviously, crush on somebody back in the day.
This is so embarrassing. But I used to have a crush on Andy Gibb and Very Manilow. How crazy is that? Oh my gosh. Do you have crushes like for rock stars and stuff? Oh? Yes, do you? I just saw you saw Bruno Mars out in the hallway. Guys, I really like Joe Jonas.
Okay, but he could be my father, so I it's the But yes, I have.
Crushes on random rock stars. So I've won three seven for ninety seven thousand. How do you feel about dating apps? Is it the worst thing in the world or are you having some success in it? The thing about understanding how how to date, because if you haven't been out there, I haven't I was in a relationship for a while, you as well. You really have to practice it like anything else. And if you if you're thin skinned in the dating world right now, that's going to be a
pro that's going to be hard. What advice doctor Wes would you give in terms of of of of being honest about yourself and authentic about who you are, but also like not getting offended and being thicker skinned if somebody because you you, somebody can unmatch you in a second on on you know, the dating apps or somebody can you know, decide after a first date that hey, this isn't a match. How do you not take that?
Personally, you have to love yourself. You gotta love yourself first and foremost. You have to know that you are a catch yourself and write down the reasons why you're a catch. I think you have to put those front and center in your mind because if you are seeking that external validation from the apps, you're going to get disappointed, right so, and.
It's kind of like what we talked about earlier in terms of not getting validated by other people. Better if you could actually if I don't think it's a match, but I didn't get to say it before he did, and he you know, it would be like I already feel like it's not a match too, so by right, it could be one of those things. Or it could be like why didn't he like me? Because even though you didn't feel like it was, it was a good match too, you might feel like, oh, abandoned by it?
Or what would be the technical term of that.
No, abandoned would be a good term for that. Yeah, you would feel abandoned, You would feel invalidated, you would feel rejected.
Rejected is the word that I was looking for. Rejected would be rejecting me before I could reject, which is always a bummer you. I will always want to reject somebody before they can reject me. But really everybody nowadays, it's kind of it is kind of like shopping online shopping and you're like trying to pick pick the one that you think would like a nice par of jeans, right, like a nice comfy para jeans. You're like, man, these don't fit that well, they looked better on the hangar, right,
and then it doesn't fit very well. But it's something that we're all getting used to in society online dating.
We are, we are, and it is very much there's got to you gotta, I think, go into it with a beginner's mind, without having a lot of expectations. But also I think you've got to be careful to not get hurt. So you got to put you got to put a lot of parameters up around not giving out, not giving out too much information too soon.
Oh my gosh, I can't believe you just said it, because that's kind of how people get violated. So I don't need to know that you didn't get along with your on the first date. I don't need to know that you didn't get along with your wife, right, and that your family is now disgruntled and they don't get along with her and the kids are I don't need to know all that on the first date right now, and why you broke up and why. I mean, I think it's important to understand, but like just what books
have you read late lately? I mean, that's kind of where the first date should be.
That's a sign of somebody that needs to go to therapy. If they're telling you all that on a first date, they should go to therapy.
Because they have to get it out. That's what they're doing.
Right, But they're just moving from one relationship to the next, to the next to the next.
I actually said, and I really like this guy, and I thought thought he was super nice, and he got a little bit into that and I said, you're you're telling me too much stuff. And I realize not everybody has a twin sister like I do and talk for two hours and get everything out. But it is, it is. It can be too much for the listener and too much, certainly for somebody. That's Sharon. Let's go to Brian and Amelia. Brian, I don't know what you're you're married for thirty seven years.
Tell me about the dating life that you no longer have to deal with.
Well, I work for a company where there are a lot of women and I don't even pay attention to them. I treat them like they're toxic because there's too much.
Trouble these days.
You can get into. But my point being is when my wife and I met each other, we were engaged for a year.
We dated for a year.
We were engaged for a year and then we got married, and in that time we talked about all the things that we wanted to achieve, how many children, where we wanted to live. We're both Catholic. That was a good point that she wanted from me, and things have worked out. We've got four boys who are all Eagle Scouts in their contributing members of society and none of them have been in jail.
Well, that is about That is definitely a positive thing. So you've been married for thirty seven years, Brian, Yes, okay? Are you still are you still.
Eighty eight?
Okay? Do you still have good communication with your wife? Yes?
Things have gotten better. Unfortunately issues out of work and I get to see her more often and our relationship has gotten a lot better. We only have one of the four boys left at home and he's about about do I believe get married and move out so we will be empty nesters?
And what do you? Because I again this is perspective because I have friends that are going through empty nest empty nesters right now, and they they're re establishing, many of them, they're reestablishing the deeper connection by being alone. What do you? How do you see that, Wes, doctor Wes. Some people grow apart in some people, Yeah, some people grow apart. But but Brian, you and your wife, it
sounds like you all. I'm wondering what intentional steps you all took throughout your marriage to stay connected, because what can often happen is is that couples grow apart because of all because of all the parenting and all the different roles, and they when they become empty nesters, they end up separating or divorcing. So you all have done something different.
It sounds like, well, we've had we've had our rocky times in the marriage. I won't I won't lie to you that we've not seen an eye on a few things. But the communication is what counts. Okay, if you truly love someone, you will look past a lot of things because you want that person for who they are, not for that certain belief, for that that little.
Quirk that they have.
No. I honestly agree with Brian one hundred it's important. People oftentimes feel like the grass is always greener on the other side, and Brian, that's not always the case. And when you know, and when you yeah.
I can't give up all we've worked together to build that would be stepping too far back.
Yeah, right, And if you have two people in a relationship that understand that, that's where the that's that's step one. And then learning how to communicate and understand each other's idiosyncrasies. Like they're not always gonna you're not always going to agree with them. There's always going to be some tough times. Brian, thank you so much for the call. I really appreciate it.
You're awake, We're welcome. Don I have a good night you too.
So I really do feel like that that was such a good call because it shows that even though you have rough times, you can still work it out. Obviously, we're gonna we're going to talk about this and when you should leave a relationship, because there are times. We're going to finish out the segment when we come back, Doctor West is going to talk about when you should give up on a relationship, when those things, when those signs happen. So coming back donner d with Doctor West
Saturday night. It's seven hundred WLW Cincinnati when or Winter Weather Advisor, if I can say that it's called out. It feels like twenty five it's going to be snowing, tomorrow. It's done a d on a Saturday night here with my buddy doctor Wes seven hundred WLWS Doctor Wes. We've been talking about this, you know, finding love in today's world, and oftentimes it's on dating sites. You know, it's you know, it's the way that we meet people now, and sometimes
it works and sometimes it doesn't. I have friends that are in long term relationships from meeting on a dating app. And you know, if you're in a long term relationship and things are going great and then after a year or two, thoughts are coming in, maybe this isn't my person right, Maybe he isn't what I thought he was. We haven't been getting along. Why are we not getting long? So the question I have for you when should you
give up on a relationship? I was watching this video of this cute young guy, right, he's so cute and he's talking to this therapist and he's struggling to figure out his relationship. And he asked her when should I give up on a relationship? And her response was when
they're not interested in you? And he said, but what if they say they're interested in me and that they love me but don't show it, then they're not interested in you, and they don't love you, she said, because you can't believe what people say, you have to believe how they act. So behavior is a language. It is really when is it, and I know we talk about the four horsemen a lot, When is it time where you can feel like I've done everything I can and
this person is just not for me. I need to let go of this person.
It's usually when there's a total lack of reciprocity, so there's no emotional engagement at all. You can literally be vulnerable with this person and they will just they'll just totally disengage with you. They won't even really acknowledge your emotional like you're saying to them, you're reaching out to them, you're pursuing them, and they're they're just totally stonewalling you. We've talked about the four horsemen of the apocalypse for relationships. Yeah,
so there's criticism contempt. Contempt is when you just generally look down upon your partner and you think you're better than them, and you are rolling your eyes at them, or you're just constantly just thinking about the worst in them. So there's criticism, there's contempt, there's defensiveness, where you're just constantly defensive. No matter what is said in the relationship,
you're constantly defensive. And then there's stonewalling. Stonewalling is the ultimately the end of a relationships.
So stonewalling is when you get no response, no response at all. You walk in and you see, you know, your husband on the phone and you say, sweetheart, we you know I did this today, I did that today, and he doesn't look up from his.
Phone, doesn't look up.
And that's not even like in an argument, it's just kind of his basic way of being.
And he's not mad either. He's got no emotional response at all. He just doesn't look up.
Okay, So if you have one or more of the four horsemen, chances are it's going to be a tough road. Yeah, to heal.
Contempt is the biggest predictor of separation and divorce.
And what's contempt.
Contempt is really looking down upon your partner, thinking that you're better than your partner, holding them just in a in a in a belief that you're better than them, and your feelings matter more than them, and and all of that, you know they're beneath you in some way.
Would contempt be and you said better than them, and oh my gosh, I'm I'm just hearing the words that you were just saying. You think you're better than your partner? Yeah, how do people get that mindset? How do how does that happen? Because if if if you're better than he, let's say, I feel like I'm better than you and we're in a relationship, how is that ever going to work?
It's not. It can't. It can't because there's never a because if if one person's better than the other one, then their their needs matter more and their feelings matter more. They're they should be getting what that there's like a hierarchy in the relationship. You know, one's higher than the other.
Yeah. Yeah, And isn't that the eye rolling thing? Contempt is like eye rolling? So can't could it possibly be that they take turns with inferior and superior in in in in in daily life? Could he feel superior at some point and she feel inferior?
Sure?
Can that that can gr out?
It can, but it's still contempt on both sides.
Okay, so so, so contempt could be on both sides and the inferior superior show up in both sides. Yes, Okay, that is that hard to recover? That's hard to be, that's.
Hard to recover from?
Okay, yeah, so.
That would be if a couple's in my office and I'm seeing that, that is a very strong predictor that it might be time to Is.
It usually one person though, that has the contempt for the other.
Especially if there's been an affair or there's been some type of an attachment injury or attachment wound. Yeah, yes, Or one person's been pursuing for so long that they have finally just given up. Then then they can Oftentimes I see them stone walling and and being in contempt.
And why would they be in your office in counseling.
You know, some people do it just to just.
To say we've tried everything.
Yeah, yeah, I mean there could be some hope. Sometimes the other partner begs them to go just please, let's go to therapy, and then I have the very difficult job of in that case saying to them, this isn't going to work and it's current state, the relationship is over. We're going to have to recreate a new relationship, and do you all want to do that or not? And I've had it, even most recently within the past week. Both of them couldn't give me an answer right, So.
So neither one of them could say we want.
To work on it, right, And they're so they're in my office and I think they just need permission to say that maybe this is over.
Well, we talked about how hard it is to let go. Yeah, it's hard to let gown when you know that this relationship isn't working, and you know that you have put a bid in for connection and that that has fallen flat and you and you can't connect with someone because they're so defensive. They can't listen, or they're criticizing you and you can't you can't toller rate that. How can you have a connection with someone if you're constantly criticized, right,
that's right. Or there's stonewalling and they're not listening or caring what you say and they're not responding to anything that you say, or they have contempt for you, right, any one of those would be hard to overcome. It would be are you seeing relationships that have all four?
Yes? Yes, I do see those and and usually those relationships have been in that place for years.
So is it that they're staying for the kids? Is it? Is it you know, financial is it.
Both of those reasons come.
Up religious because there's there's a religious thing that you know, once you marry somebody, you're not supposed to get divorced. There's there's still that happening, even though there's a high rate of divorce and society. So when you come across couples that have these issues and you can see them clearly and neither one of them want to really do the work to be able to fix it, which would take a lot of self reflection and looking in it, do you say, you guys need to go your own way.
I will tell them that I will be there to help them whatever way they wanted, whichever way they want to go, but that the relationship in its current format, its current form with the four Horsemen, yeah, will not statistically won't survive.
Do you ask them, would you like separate counseling? Yeah, Because we had a caller here one time on this show and he said, when we got into separate count because they got into an argument. Do you remember that they were they were on their way home and they did their first couples therapy together, and he said she was upset because she felt like the therapist was siding with him, and he was upset because she spilled out some of the things that he felt like she was
tattling on him and he was embarrassed. So they decided that they would go to counseling, but separately, and they said they both had maybe four counseling sessions and they were great. They needed to get it out separately. So is that something you suggest as well?
I will suggest that in collaboration with couples with a different therapist, So yes, I will suggest that they each go get their own individual therapists. They work on individual issues, and then we do couples therapy. As they're learning and growing and increasing in self awareness and self reflection, then they can come back to couples.
How important is it? How important is it to maintain a level of interest in your partner?
Right?
So if you're curious and you're interested and you care, why you know, why wouldn't you show it? Because if somebody turns their back on me in a relationship, which has happened before, and I've had to deal with that, I'm like, I've tried to talk to you, I've tried to work things out, and it's not getting better. What are we doing here? Why are we? Why are we
in this? And it seems like they could care, They could care less, otherwise they would work on it, couldn't Isn't it easy to just say, you know, I get it. I've been a total you know, mean whatever in the last week, and I don't know what's wrong with me. It's my fault. Let me let me get a little bit of space around what I've done and why I'm doing it, and then let's connect.
That would be wonderful. I couldn't say that, But.
It's easier said. Then it's easier done than said. It's not that hard to take responsibility and understand that, hey, it's me, not you. Right, Sometimes it doesn't seem like it's easy because you're admitting guilt and you think somebody might hold it against you or whatever. But just own your bad behavior and say I'm going to work on it. Yeah, and what can I do better? I've already seen that
I can do this, this and this. But what do you need from me that we can come back and connect a little bit.
If you were in my office and you said that to your partner, we would be onto something big time. Okay, we really would be yeah, but the problem is people are so.
Dug into their side.
Yes.
See. This goes back to why I used to value being right, and I don't value that at all anymore. I'd rather work on communication and get and because we both know Esther Pirell, the quality of your life is determined by the quality or relationships. If you're with somebody that you don't, don't love, don't even like sometimes in the house, if you're with them, you're doing something wrong. If you're just saying, oh, they're this, there's that, there's
you know, that's my wife. I mean I I went to a dinner where all these guys were talking so badly about their wives, and I'm like, they have to go home and sleep in the same bed with them, Like what are they doing right? Why why are they talking so badly about their wives? And and and and then what are the wives saying about their husbands? How do you? How do you? How do you manage that? How how do you how do you stay in a lot, in a in a long term relationship and not even.
Like the person not very well? I think that's what a lot of people are doing that and it's a transactional relationship and I do think it's based upon finances, it's based upon child rearing, it's based upon religious reasons. It's not based upon authentic true love anymore. And it's really sad. That's why we have the level of divorce in our country.
But it can be fixed it well, if you reach out and say you mean something to me. Sometimes that's all people care about. That's right, is that, yes, you mean something to me. We've had a rocky patch. Even Brian, who's been married for thirty seven years, will say, we went through some hard times. And it's whether you're going to dig in and get and stay in that boat with that somebody that you love. You've had four kids with and they're worth it. If you just said you're worth it to me, yeah.
And that's a bid for connection. I think Brian and his wife developed bids for connection, yeah, and consistently reached out yes, and that is what That's what made the difference in that relationship.
I can't agree more. While we are at a time another Saturday night, Wow, it's gone by so fast, doctor Wes, thank you for being in you. You know, we have had a very surprise guest here and she has been absolutely amazing. I didn't understand how great this little girl is and how how what a deep soul she is at the age of fourteen. But you know, you have been so amazing and you should be very proud of your daughter.
Thank you so much for having me. I have so much fun.
Well, we'll have you back again. We're back next Saturday. So we're going to you know, kick off December and and go through some more of this relationship stuff. We're deep diving in to figure out how we can make our own lives better through the quality of our relationships. Thank you so much. Thank you Sean McMahon for producing the show tonight. We'll be back next Saturday and have a wonderful, wonderful Sunday, everybody. Thanks again.