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Back at it? The Scott Flung Show on seven hundred WLW. Short week for the holiday, of course, coming off an awful weekend for sports and since none unless you know it's Saint Xer team Same Xavier for that manner. It was one of the biggest stories of the decade back then, the disappearance and murder of Caitlin Markham. Of course, she vanished from her Fairfield home in August of twenty eleven.
Two years later, her remains were discovered at a dumb site Indiana, and her fiance, John Carter, was indited for murder just two years ago, so that's a full decade after her disappearance. He pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter and just before trial he received the three year sentence under ohiolaw that's the maximum. Now John Carter wants early release after serving fourteen months of his three year sentence, so just a little over a year on. That is the
father of the late Caitlin Markham. Dave Markham on the show on seven hundred WLW. Dave, I'd imagine this news coming out is the context of the holidays coming It's it's got to be hard every year for you. And you know I heard this, I instantly thought of you and the family. Your reaction, I know what mine was, But your reaction when you found out John Carter was seeking early release after serving less than half of a sentence. What what were your thoughts going through your mind at that time?
Actually? I just thought, uh, you know, the the audacity and the and the arrogance that he just seems to have that he doesn't you know, he doesn't deserve the two times three years was not enough as it is, But I don't know, he just seems to be living in his own fantasy world that fourteen months and oh, hey, I shouldn't have to serve time, you know, let me out early. I've been a good boy, and I just don't buy any of it. It's uh, it's very shocking.
I guess it's I guess it's expected for him to ask. They all have that, right. It was really hard to swalloough.
Well, considering just how dishonesty was. I guess during this whole process, for lack of a better term, fought everything tooth and now and now twelve fourteen months later, he wants out.
Yeah, yeah, you said it. He's live from the get go. He lied to the nine to one one callers, and he's been lying ever since. The prosecutor wants, you know, an education, and he wants him to vets up to everything, named, names, places, people, how he did it. I don't see John doing that. He hasn't said one thing honest and truthful the entire fourteen years.
Yeah, Mike Bucher kind of laid it out there, floated the balloon and said, look, if Carter is able to give us the details, because that has been lacking in this whole thing. What happened the night she died? Why do you transport the body where you did put the pieces? Was anyone else involved? For that matter? If he were to give a full account, now, would that change your position on his early.
You know maybe, No, I don't think so. He would really really have to come clean and be sincerely honest, and right now I'm just very doubtful that he can be honest. So, you know, I'm kind I'm kind of up in the air. No, don't. I don't want him out early, And like I said, he'd have to really do some convincing to get me to agree to let him out early. And I think that fourteen, fifteen, eighteen months is not nearly enough time.
It sure isn't you know. The expression getting away with murder is well used, for sure, and this certainly applies here for what he did in his role in not only just murdering Caitlin, but disposing of the body in the most heinous fashion available, and then all the other things that he did to try to cover the crime up. Serving just three years, let alone fourteen months doesn't seem
like it's enough. But at the same time, Dave Markham, would you trade his early release for closure knowing exactly what happened to your daughter back in twenty eleven?
I think so.
You mentioned in court that Carter just won't get out from under your skin. What's it like the last decade plus living with this case owner resolved for so long? We first a decade for an indictment and the plea deal instead of a trial, and now this early release question.
Yeah, I just can't seem to get away from it.
You know.
We went to court Thursday and I thought I was going to get another answer, you know, deny or approve, But then we come up with this and I've got another you know, I've got another court date January ninth.
I'll be back there again.
It just seems to still just grab hold and uh, you know, he doesn't ruin my day, but he sure does put some put me through some emotions. Here we go again.
Is it especially difficult day of this happening right before the holidays? I mean when were the holidays big and your family with Caitlin and all that.
Yeah, obviously it is. It is poor timing. Yeah, it's a tough time of year every year, and I you know, I've got this hanging over my head now, and yeah, it will definitely, uh, it'll definitely pull some emotions on Christmas, more so than usual, just knowing that a week later, you know, I'll be back in court trying to get this thing closed, done, wrapped up, but behind me so
to speak. Yeah, and if John could come up with some really honesty, then yeah, I'm I have a change of heart, but I'm very very doubtful that he Yeah, you can't do that.
It's kind of a sophie's choice, right. You want him to spend the maximum. At the same time, you also want to know what happened to her, to your daughter, and and at least no and know the whole story, I guess, and that's what's been missing this whole thing. I can't imagine what it's like having his name pop up every so often. Now every time he's up for parole, you're going to go through this same set of emotions again.
If you would just give up the ghosts, so to speak, I think it'd be better for you, right.
Yeah, I think, so give it up, be honest, and then I'll deal with it the way I have to. But right now it's you know, it's never ending. There's no there is no closure. It's always always there and John just keeps, you know, rear in his ugly head and here it is again.
Yeah.
Uh.
Dave Markham, dad of Caitlyn Mark, of course, disappeared from her Fairfield home back in twenty eleven. Ten years later find out founder remains, and then, of course John Carter he and fiance indicted murder just two years ago. This has played out since twenty eleven and now he's asking for early release from his three year sentence. And that's why it's only three because of the conditions in which
the confession came about, the involuntary manslaughter play. It means only gets three years and that's the maxim for that charge, far less than a murder conviction would have brought. But in retrospect, with this new information about him wanting out early, looking back, do you have thoughts about the decision, the prosecutor's decision to accept that plea deal before trial.
No.
You know, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence and that's what it was in this decision to definitely get you know, his confession, his admission of guilt. That's something it could have gone drastically wrong and him been you know, found acquitted, and I would not have liked that. I would Yes, I would have liked to have seen him spend thirty years behind bars. But now I don't. I don't question the prosecutor's decisions. They've been very fair and honest, and
you know that they want him too. They're they're going after him. So yeah, I respect him and in their decisions.
You know, when they went and got the search order, the search weren't rather at h at the house of John Carter's mom. There were a dozen items that receives notes on the investigation, Caitlin's papers, some landscaping material that they believe was a material that was taken to use to wrap her body and then dumped in Indiana. There's an SD card to drawings poetry about death and killing, and some of those poetry kind of disturbing, uh in
a big way. You may recall some of the words used by John Carter they found I think written over the top of like a doorframe. I slit your wrists with the keys to your heart deep down. I love her. You ought to kill her, but I love her. She must die. I can't kill her, Yes you can, No, you can't.
Uh.
And all these weird writings that certainly in the kate that he is the guy, and he confessed as such. And now Carter's mother suggests there's information about the case that hasn't been discussed publicly. What do you make of that claim? And is there anything that that would come out of that?
Well, you know they they've said it before. Her family has ye know that there's her side of the you know John's side of the story, and we don't know everything. And here it is, that's the whole point of where we're at, is that speak up, tell your side of the story, be honest, be fair, that you know they they talk about not hearing the whole story. Well, they're the ones that's not talking about it, so yeah, you know it doesn't make sense to me.
Well, and the other thing too, is you know you got motive too, because the search warrants, I guess. And they interviewed to friend police did and the friend of Caitlin said she was unhappy with Carter's lifestyle, said he was using drugs heavily, he was into pornography, and she's I'm no longer attracted him because he's not going anywhere. She's going to school, it's going to go make something of her life, getting ready to move out of state
to Colorado. I believe that that seems to indicate that, you know, it's almost ninety nine times out of one hundred, it's the person closest to you that's responsible. And this case that's absolutely.
True, right. I mean, statistics are it's the spouse, the boyfriend, the one closest. And you know, I always kind of felt that Fairfield didn't seem to believe that and go after John, But here we are. You know, statistics again, Yes, there was the person closest to Caitlin.
Yeah, I mean, if anything, you haven't gotten any honest answers about her disappearance, what happened to Caitlin? And that's going to haunt you forever unless John does the right thing. But there's no indication he's going to do that. If the judge denies her to a recent January and Carter serves his full three years, they'll be out in less than what two years from now? Are you preparing for that reality?
No, it is what it is. He's going to be out eventually someday, and I just hope and pray that our paths never crossed.
Yeah, I fire him. I'd probably get out of the state and try to go somewhere else, And just at that point it'll kind of be over for you because you'll never see him again, hopefully. But you know, thirteen years later, the healing process has been affected by the timeline, and and it's dragged out for so long, this whole thing, and now you're back in court to fight against earl the release. What do you want the judge to consider most about this decision he's going to make in January.
Well, mostly just that you know John's attitude, he has not felt in a remorse. You know, if he gets away with murder quote unquote, or he gets ear the release and it's just a slap on the wrist. If he doesn't come clean with himself and his honesty in his own you know, minds and talks and anger, he's allowable to do it again and that. But that's what I'm afraid of. You know, he just doesn't he doesn't take any responsibility and aff that's the case, then he's
liable to do it again. It's happened before.
I believe he did. I not read. And you may know more about this than I do. I think you would. Is that wasn't he didn't have a fiance. He had a baby and like another one on the way when he went to jail or at prison.
Yeah, he's married now with two children.
Wow. That always amazes me too. If your name's in the news or something like this, somehow you're attracted. This guy is the I don't know, like he's an innocent victim caught up on all this stuff. And you know, when the evidence has come out, it's pretty clear it was John Carter. He just won't cooperate with authorities or give you any relief. And now in January we'll revisit this again for the empteenth time, and John Carter trying to get out of jail early after fourteen months after
murdering Caitlin Markham. Do you feel if he does, he's gotten away with it.
Yeah?
I do.
Yeah. I think if he gets released without coming clean, then he got away with it. And you know, I sit here and think, just what is he going to try to say? What is he going to try to you know, his side of the story. And he's got, you know, six weeks to figure it out or write a story or you know, collaborate with whomever. But yeah, I'm just very curious to find out what he actually has to say, if anything.
If he does, do you think he will do knowing what you know about John Carter.
I think she'll say something. Yeah, because he wants out. I'll think he'll do anything to get out.
Well, how much of us, say, did did with meeting with prosecutor Mike Moser on this one, It's entirely up to you whether or not you move forward with some sort of deal to get him out of prison. What would satisfy you? What would you have to hear?
I'd have to I've got to have to hear exactly what he did, who and who. I would like him to name names. I mean, may be too late to prosecute because of the statute of limitations, but you know, I would like to know who so that they get looked at sideways when they walk by. I don't want to ruin anybody's reputation, but on this case, you ruin it yourself, and let's hear it.
Do you believe there was someone else involved with us?
I do.
I don't think John could have moved the body himself. I don't think you had the smarts or you know, the strength or ability. I certainly do believe somebody else was involved.
Maybe he'll name names. I don't know why you'd be loyal if you're in prison already. That's just the nature of being in prison, I guess. But sadly, now your your life is again up in the air for the next month a month and a half before this goes back to the judge, we'll continue to follow it.
Dave.
Prayers to you brother. I can't imagine what you're going through right now.
All right, Thanks Scott, and I appreciate your continued support.
All right, take care of my friend.
Thank you all.
Right, Dave Markham, that's the dad of Caitlin mark. I mean, I can't help but think getting a little emotional here thinking about my daughter and the holidays because we all enjoy spending time together as a family and what that would be like without someone that special at the table, especially under the circumstances in which Caitlin disappeared and then ten years later found out it was murder. And I
think Dave Markham knew that all along. So count your blessings is thanksgiving right those around you you love, because you never know. Horrible Scott's Loan Show seven hundred wt weldo Scott's Loan back on seven hundred got a rough weekend sports wise, right unless you're a Savior Saint Xavier or Xavier University. Everything else just sucked. That was I think to me, that was right up there with the
how long was that? Where you see and Xavier were in the NCAA tournament both lost, got bounced on the same day unexpectedly like that one really hurt this one. Yes this weekend was just like a long, painful goodbye. F Sea was terrible. Yesterday the Bengals close but no cigar as usual and What a weird world in which we live in which all of a sudden, now the defense is okay and the offense is terrible, And so
goes the drama of the twenty twenty five campaign. I thought for sure, the way things were lining up, that Burrow would have started on yesterday. But still, I guess what I heard was he was still a little sore from practice this week, so they want to give him time. Presumably he's going to come back against Baltimore. But at this point you wonder, are you just risking the franchise if something happens to him in those two games or down the line. I mean, what are we playing for
at this point? There's no way you're making the playoffs. Nonetheless, we've got other stuff going on, and not good news. Second time of the month, we've had a shooting in front of Privy on a l and all the victims are transported by private vehicles. Non life threatening urgents are emergency. But I guess they blocked out's charter tin and windows fired, A bunch of shots hit three people, and shots about
of course went off. At this point, you know, I don't know how much more attention you can play pay to one place in that you have hired arm security. I guess in front of this thing. It's not a good look when all the security personnel in front are wearing kevlar and carrying weapons with them. Not a good look for that neighborhood because I know a number of people who invest down there, and Ryan guys being one of them of course, but other people with like airbnbs
and like a ton of money in the line. And you know, now this is twice in a month, and the concerns are the loud music and the drinking on sidewalks and fighting, littering and gunplay. Now two shootings in the same month in front of Privy. At some point you know clearly there's an element that is attracted to that particular bar, not the kind of bar probably me and you go to because if I see someone who is wearing I don't know, a flak jacket and carrying a long gun, a long rifle or a side arm,
or wearing bulletproof armor or tactical gear. I look at that and got I'm quite sure I want to go. And it's DIFFERENTY go to a football game or basketball you know you're gonna have armed security there. Obviously off duty cops and stuff like that, because it's such a big gathering. But yeah, just to talk about going to a bar, I look at it and go, yeah, that's not the risk of me, and some people yet are attracted there. And you wonder who would be attracted to go in an environment like that.
Uh.
I don't know if the city has the impetus to shut this place down, but you think with the state police involvement and everything else, that in electuor control, it'd be a rather easy thing to do. But we're just gonna sit around and wait till somebody gets killed, I guess, and go, yeah, we probably should shut this place down,
all right. So we have this going on. I've been talking about healthcare because that's the big issue for us in America at this time, and just wondering what's going to happen with this deadline coming up end of the year. The ACA tax credits expire without the extension, about twenty twenty two million people who will be in trouble and
not have that subsidy covering them. Trump's plan and the GOP plan is health savings account so you have an HSA, which is a coup as a credit cards account and instead of giving the money to the insured, the money would go right to your account. And the idea is, instead of giving the money to the insurance companies, you can on the free market, go out there and decide
where you want to spend your money. Some of that may be involving a bronze level ACA plan and the federal money goes in if you're low, especially the lower income you go, and that covers all that stuff as well. Rick Scott is trying to label USS the Trump Health Freedom Account for premium payments and things like that. The opposition so far from the Democrats has been just not enough time to implement this before January first. And if you just extend this a year, we could sit down
and hammer out the finer points of this. And if that's your plan, and you're gonna move forward with a grade, and I think you should extend that a year because too many people are going to fall off here in just about a month or so. But the idea is whether it's the ACA, which is all about subsidy subsidy subsidy, or this plan to pair hsas with brown level plans, or just have an HSA that the government would give you money that goes into you buy your own insurance.
The question is is that a good alternative. Well, we know the ACA subsidies are. It's so here's an analogy for let me. I love analogies because I'm not particularly bright. It's just kind of a street smart but not not necessarily book smart. But it's kind of like if you gave someone a coupon. Here's instead of healthcare, let's say it's a it's for a restaurant. Okay, here's the money. You get a discount coup with the AC. It's a
discount coup on an expensive restaurant. The HSA approach is like giving someone cash and saying, go figure out where you want to spend the money. It's a per diem. So that coupon would allow you to eat at a restaurant, which is the same as your comprehensive health insurance coverage. Take that coupon and go health insurance er, go get
a meal somewhere. But the problem is the price of that menu keeps rising and rising and rising, and in the healthcare industry, the insurance company in the risk pool keep the restaurant running. The cash gives you freedom to choose maybe Okay, hey, I'm gonna buy groceries. I'll go to Kroger. I'll cook it home, which would be you know, basic go to I don't know, fast food or something like that. That's routine care. So the asser every day kind of like I'm gonna get a check up. It's like,
you know, buying groceries. Okay, so yeah, all right, it's type out. I gotta afford that. Maybe you have an elective procedure, and now you've got to pay more for that. So that's like splourging out a good meal somewhere. But if all of a sudden, let's say I don't know, you lose a bet you got, you're like a football. You got to take like ten people taking your family out for Thanksgiving dinner or something like that. It's a five course meal at Boca. Let's say I was in
your forced to have five course meal at Boca. You can't afford that, and that's kind of like cancer treatment or major surgery, and that cash is gonna rot pretty quick. So the problem is if enough people stop going to the restaurant because they're trying to stretch their cash, the restaurants will close down and that leaves people with pre
existing conditions nowhere to eat at all. And so I guess the way I look at it is it doesn't seem to me like either of these things solve the real problem, and the problem is why is the restaurant charging one hundred dollars for a hamburger in the first place. Neither the certainly not the Democrats plan and the Obamacare subsidies answer that question, and neither is this. So what's the difference if I give them money to insurance companies or you give me the money and I give them
to insurance companies. It's the fact. And the other fact of the matter is too. What's really not working with ACA is the fact that younger people are seeing their premiums or eyes and going, oh, I'm perfectly healthy. I'm in my twenties. Remember this whole scheme was highly dependent on younger people getting insurance, and more and more younger people, as they get squeezed, are saying, hey, listen, I'm perfectly healthy.
I'm my twenties, maybe early thirties, whatever, and I'm not seeing the signs of living my life the way I live it, or just hereditary or just random illness causing me. I just can't justify this. I was talking to someone in their late twenties over the weekend said, yeah, I was on it for a while, and I just I don't see the point because I never go to the doctor, but i'm the premiums keep going up. I can't afford it for something I don't use. I'll throw And then
what that means is God forbid. Something happens and you're sick, you show up to the hospital and you have to be treated. By law, it can't turn you away. And now who's going to pay that bill? You look at it and go, wow, I've got a eighty thousand dollars hospital bill and I'm being generous here for something that was outside of my controller. Maybe it was and accidents happened,
I didn't have insurance. They've got to treat me. And now I've got a file for bankruptcy or I'm going to pay them I don't know, thirty bucks a month for the rest of my life. It's just not sustainable. And the more premiums go up, the more people, especially younger people who we need in the system because it's depending done the young feeding the old. They're just fading away, or give me the option go, well, I'm not going
to pay for this anymore. Remember there's going to be a mandate that everyone had to pay for it, and there's a pushback on that rightly, So you know it's so you know, neither one of these ways. And then with the Republican plan with giving you the money in your own account, great, I can go shop on the market. But I guess if I went to my doctor for a checkup or a dental visit or something, that that's great. But the problem is when something catastrophic happens, if I
get sick. I mean, I had a surgery on my foot, and you know, I hit my deductible for the year, but you're still talking thousands of dollars. Most people don't have that, and you know you have to have it done because you can't be limping around or you know, break a bone something like that. It's just it's just a horrible situation. So you know, the idea here that we're gonna here's our play. Our plan is to do
the same thing, only it's going to look different. I just don't get what that's going to do for you. Why are the costs so freaking high in the first place is what we have to look at and then address the problem from there. But you're not going to do that in a month. That's for dang. Sure. I love the idea of giving you more direct control over your healthcare spending and removing the insurance company, your medias
from the subsidy flow. And yeah, that could increase price transparency and shopping behavior and all those things, and it gets sort of bureaucracy. That's all well and good, but again, the structural issue is the fee for service payment models and centivized volume over value. There's the drug prices. Of course, there's negotiating there. We're seeing hospitals because of the model we have here consolidate to reduce competition, and there's no
mechanism to control that. Growth is a real problem. It just continues to do more of the same, which is redistributing subsidies. It's just more subsidy. It's just kind of an old idea. And by the way, I think Medicare Part B jumps like almost ten percent. We're seeing employer coverage seeing its highest cost increases in the last fifteen years ago ours went up. And if you're going to
make this truly affordable. You've got to talk about provider pricing, you talk about drug cost, administrative costs system, and efficiencies. This doesn't do any of that stuff. And so when I see that there's this quote unquote maga revolt going on. To some degree, we saw what happened with the Epstein file release, where the GOP leaders, other than what one one person said, we're gonna want the we want all this release, Trump had no choice to go, Okay, let's
release these records. We saw what happened with Marjorie Taylor Green over the weekend on Friday announcing her resignation effective first of the year. Now, granted she does that right after her her pension kicks in, which is pretty good score for her and fireing that line of work. I'd probably do the same thing. But again, we're back to making America great again, and none of this is doing that.
So she has legitimate beef, especially with someone she supported with her own time and effort out on the campaign trail for two terms, banging the drum for Donald Trump, and then the minute she's at the Epstein thing and some other other issues, of course, and now she's dead to him. So you wonder kind of like where this
is all going. I think this is another thing. It's like, Hey, we're supposed to be fixing these great problems, which is why we elected you, and so far the economy isn't doing what we promised, and certainly when it comes to healthcare and other issues, this is a big plan. I mean, you've had fifteen years to come up with something, and the something is we're just going to continue to what we're doing. Why is healthcare so much so damn expensive?
And neither side, neither Republicans nor Democrats want to address the real issue here, and that is huge part of the problem. And I think you're going to see another starting to field, another shift going on, going all right. I don't think Democrats will really have a plan. I don't know what kind of leadership they have. Maybe GAVI and do some I don't know. You've got socialists at the White House. I'm not sure what the hell's got.
I don't know who to believe anymore. I think that's the problem.
Right.
We'll get a time out in more to follow on this Monday morning, hopefully a short week for you, with Thanksgiving on the horizon. They can't take our turkey. With that we have, they can't take our turkey away. Pride that drumstick from my cold dead hands. Scott's loan seven hundred wi a Scott's loan, This is seven hundred WLW. So our big sports weekend, it was a big sports fail.
That was horrible week. Evert everything lined up like this is going to be great, right, started out with so much hope and promise or at least one local team went anyway, And on Friday that would be uh Saint X beating Elder and what twenty thousand people at pay Corps on a chilly, misty, rainy kind of night. That's great.
Great Atmosphogot. I was not there, but I know a number of people that were, and everyone's absolutely just blown away with how good it was because you know, the ribbon boards had if sant exit score, they had the blue and purple of the Elder, and it was just an action packed game, certainly in the first quarter was unreal.
But also the fact that they had video and video replays up as well, and they went all in and had all the you know, usual scoreboard operator and behind the scenes teams working as they would a Bengals game.
The bad takeaway of this is because we're so used to it watching the Bengals and NFL football, is that you have multiple replays, you have officials on the field, you have automatic reviews, booth reviews, and everything else right, so you want to get it right, even though there are at least a couple of plays a weekend looks like where they got it wrong. Nonetheless, it's we expect perfection,
we demand perfection. The problem with that is when you apply that the technology to high school, it doesn't work because I was told there are a number of plays where you know, these are high school officials officials on an NFL field, they're not NFL officials. You have high school officials. They're going to get wrong. I mean, it's the way it used to be before technology. Right refereed below the call and get mad at the referee. But that was consistent whether it's NFL college or high school.
And so now we have that collegiate, but especially the NFL expectation at a place like pay Corps where they're replaying they're showing the replace here from multiple angles and pretty clearly guys out of bounds, he dropped the ball whatever, and in high school you just you don't have the benefit of instant replay, and so the officials are being held to a much higher standard than out of control of and we're so used to like, oh, yeah, clearly
he was juggling the bull, Clearly he was down. Clearly he was out of bounds.
Uh.
And when they missed that call, you're like, well, what the hell, look at look at the score. But well we can't. We're not allowed to look at that and review it. That's how high school athletics work. So I don't if we should do that in the futures, have instant replay. But I'm a big proponent saying, listen, we ought to have more games during the season at the
pay or that was awesome. I don't know if you can do what they did on Friday night, and what are you know what the break even point would be for an event like that, because let's face it, you can't have two you know, smaller schools. And obviously the passionate san X and Hellill bring it of course, you know, without saying when they meet up, it's always big, it's
always a huge game. It's always happened. But I think the are the games that you would think of that certainly would rise to that level and you get huge crowds for it, so but then maybe consider for the next time you do it. It's like, yeah, maybe I don't know as much as the crowd would want to see the replays and the you know, the highlights, like that's probably not good for the game and officiating because it just great, say a lot more tension than you
would have normally just saying just saying, uh. Coming up at ten, I was seven on the show Doctor Stephen Vegans is the medical director Hamilon County Public Health. Couple things going on right now. One of them would be RSV. The other flu. I don't know if you heard this. We're having a particularly difficult RSV season, especially for younger and older patients. But I'm a I religiously get the flu shot every year and I got one last year,
and I still think I got the flu. Now. It was pretty I thought it was pretty bad because it was I was three days I was down, and normally that's like a week or so. So it does have an effect even if they miss and okay, well, you know once in a while we get that where the uh, the current dose and the current vaccine does not match up with what the current threat is because the nature of you know, developing it and seeing what's happening. Well, we won't get no more with vegans in the middle.
But this flu season is supposed to be as bad, if not worse than last year, I believe it or not, because we have yet another mutation that happened after the vaccine came out was in production. So whether or not you get it or not, I mean, I'm I've had it for a long time. I haven't had a problem with it myself, and I wonder how many times I would would have gotten the flu. And if you have the flu, it's like it's a week, it's it's pretty bad. And last year I got it, I had a vaccine
on it. Not only I guess conventional wisdom post COVID is that, well, see this is it doesn't work. This is why you shouldn't take it put that in your body. I don't know, I've been doing it for thirty years. Look at it and go, oh, only times I prevented it. But the other thing is it still gives you a little bit of protection against the virus. So you're saying, well, dummy, you just got sick last year and you had the shots,
so it doesn't matter. Yeah, But I as bad as I felt, I couldn't I couldn't imagine how much worse it would be had I not get some sort of antigens in my bloodstream. That's my that's me. You may be different. I'll leave it at that. Vegans is next. He's the medical director Hamil County Public Health. This where things stand headed in the cold and flu season. Still
not too late to get that flu shot. It might help you a little bit anyway, And we'll find out how much from the man himself right after news on the Home of the Best Bengals coverage seven hundred ww Cincinnati.
Want to be an American?
Kick it off the holiday season this week seven hundred WWT Scott's Loan Show. And of course with that is seeing friends and associates, coworkers, family and others. And that means to come in close contact. And it is also the start of the hey, I'm going to get six season. Some of u's already had a start on this one. Hamlin County is seeing a rise in pediatric RSV hospitalizations
and usually early in the season. The other thing you need to know is that for the second consecutive year, it looks like this flu season is going to be pretty bad. That's because of a new mutation. On the show on seven hundred, WW is the medical director of Hamlin County Public Health, doctor Stephenvegans. Good morning, how are you?
Thanks? Got good morning? How are you?
I'm well today tomorrow?
Not this link.
Yeah, I'm well today tomorrow. I don't know. We'll find out here. Good to have you back, and I know you're really busy. Thanks for taking time out. So first of all, let's start with the RSV thing. We're seeing a rise number of hospitalizations unusually early this year. What's driving that.
Well, Urcity is one of the big three restaurerts and dicial bars, COVID and influenza uh, and it disproportionately impacts kids, basically very young and so you know we've last year we saw a pretty significant RC season in children. This year we actually sat a little bit earlier. So typically all this season starts, you know, after October one, towards Thanksgiving. We started seeing cases in September. Why is that? It's probably just a combination of a bunch of stuff, kids
being out and about as well as adults. So and there's a there's some now now some vaccines for mothers so that the kid doesn't get RCV as well as older adults. But yeah, it's just a part of the respiratory season. And we're saying it especially especially as we go into the holidays.
Okay, it hits our elderly people just as likely to get RSV as a child.
Yeah, and so in fact it impacts the very young and the very old. And that's why these are these vaccines are now out for you know, age seventy five and upright, it's fifty enough. And so all the stuff that you find yourself in the hospital for even to some extent fluence restaports and fishial bars. And so you've got the young that may be impacted by the old, and the old that may be impacted by the young. And so the important thing is to wash your hands,
do all that stuff. You're gonna let this hold you. But also if you are eligible, there's some vaccinations now in the last two years.
Yeah, how does that present? By the way, it's art because you know, I don't know what we called it back in the day, but it seems like a it's another one that there's no illnesses. You guys in Hamlin County Health made up. No, we didn't make it up.
You know.
The key it vegans. It's all about marketing.
Yeah, well we just report right, but it's it's like a lower respiratory track, so you know the cold. Uh, the typical coronavirus is upper restory. Cause that.
We're losing your cell you there, Doctor Stephen Fagin's into the lungs. Yes, oh we're losing her. We lost you there for a minute.
Oh, sorry about that.
Yeah. So viruses that can kind of get down in the lungs are the ones you got to kind of worry about. And so that's when you you know.
Kind of cutting. Now you're cutting your cot. I'll pause for a second. Maybe you can get another bar on your phone. There, it's doctor Stephen Fagan's medical director, Hamlet County Public Health. With the cold weather now here, the wet weather, and of course being around family and friends and big crowds as we like to do during the holidays, and then being inside of course as an element of this thing too or see an RSV cases hospitalizations spike already.
We know that it is deadly and children especially if it's left untreated. And we're talking about the warning signs, So are you saying, is it cough, is it fever? Is both of those?
Yeah, it's mostly fever as well as cough. And so you know, if you're very young, and they always tell you if you have a feed you need to go to hospital, especially if you're in that first month of life, and so those first six months are very susceptible and that that's the kind of the problem that you'll see. And you also that's why you have those bulbs to clear out the nose from all the congestion as well,
so you can kind of reade that. Yeah, fever and cough is what the first start can be, gotcha.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of the upper respiratory. Having one of those nasal rinses, the netty pop things work pretty much kind of gross, but especially in an allergy season. I use it not often, but pretty much you're around if I'm a little bit stuff, you just kind of clean the pipes out a little bit. So we have RSV, but we also have the flu too, so let's talk about that. I think that's the one that's going to affect a lot more people, it's a so explain how
the flu vaccine works. People go, well, let's why I don't get the vaccines because it doesn't work. It's not worked last year, it's not going to work this year. Why can't they get this right? It'd be the typical question that gets asked, how do you answer that?
Yeah, So the flu vaccine prevents you from having bad flu, finding yourself in the hospital or find yourself in the emergency department. The reason employers like you to get the flu vaccine. It also keeps you able to work, and so it doesn't decrease transmission, although it can some, but it doesn't really decreases just how bad the flu is when you get it.
Yeah, And also we look at what is happening half a world away, right whereas now summer, you know, on the other half Australia, for example, we look and see what diseases they get in the winter and go, okay, that's going to be part of our annual vaccine here in America. And sometimes now two years in a row, we missed a mutation. In this case, it's called the H three and two. What is that?
Yeah, so we characterized by H or even gluten or in neuromenidase, and so it's the hema gluten that helps the virus get into the cell, and that's what you vaccinate against. The neuromenidase is what the TAMA flu and
anti viarl's work against. And so we're always looking to see if the h part changes in arch of the typical year when they have to decide what's the vaccine going to have in it because it takes six months to produce, you look at the southern hemisphere like Australia to see what it's going to be like for up here, and so between summer and going into fall, it looks like yes, there was not just a small but a pretty significant change actually changing from one subclaim to another.
As you mentioned previously, United Kingdom is seeing a significant flu season. Japan of the places saw a significant flu season, and we did have a big a three into flu season last year, one of the biggest months they had in five years here both locally and nationally. So who knows what's coming up? We'll see right right, are you what's the scoreboard saying right now? I know you have the tracker the gateway on your website, but does it look like it's going to be a particularly bad flu
season again. Well, and actually what we're showing is a lower hostilization rate for influenza than the five year average would show. But the reason for that is that the High Department of Health change their data to something called Clinton Sinc October one, and so we're not sure. We think it's reporting lower than actual because if you go to actual hospital, we're higher than what we typically were over the five year average. So we have a little
bit of data reporting issue. Subjectively, it looks like we're higher, but we are reporting slightly lower. Right now.
The vaccine better for kids or adults.
It's best for both six months and up. Go get one. It's about fifty percent effective, which doesn't sound like much, but it does a lot if you're feeling bad against hospitalization, er visits and having bad flues.
Well, we see at some point a combined combined vaccination doctor Stephen Fagin's where you get the flu and an RSV in the same one.
Now, probably not that there's a potential combined covid and flu vaccine, but I will tell you if you're an adult and you qualify, you can get RSC vaccine Influenza vaccine and COVID vaccine all at the same time. It'd be a good thing to do before the holiday.
How we do it on covid By the way, we've talked about RSV and the flu. I mean, obviously COVID was major headlines five years ago but diminishing ever since. Is that like a false sense of security?
Well still here, still puts feature in the hospital, not as much as it did. It's almost something that we kind of we kind of deal with. We do have some antivirals, just like flu. If you do have a positive COVID test, it's good to start the anti viral within two days of the first symptoms. But it's it's still here. It's one of the big three that we that we monitor.
But it's not we're not seeing the fatality rich because we've all lot they heard immunity.
We got some immunity less combination combination vaccine and prior evaccine and stuff, and it's mutating less fast than it used to, and so that's also well. And so we do have the experience and it's just one of the viruses now. We definitely definitely don't see the fatalities that we saw with this when it first started.
Which we kind of do, but five years ago much different. We're in a much different spot at that time. How much of that immunity has to do with the vaccine versus natural resistance and the herd immunities I.
Mentioned, Yeah, probably a combination of both. You know, the vaccine probably has its effectiveness like flu for the first three to six months, and then it gradually comes off. And so it's probably more previous affection immunity right now than vaccine immunity. But there is a good combination of both. And if you're a certain age or have a lot of comorbidities, you know, it's a good idea to go ahead and get that COVID vaccine to boost that.
Is it like RSV in a way that the young and very old are the ones that really need to get accident.
Inno sense, Yeah, you probably can drop that age range around fifty or so for COVID, but nonetheless that's exactly right. Yeah, the American pediatrics will say that from six months to two years, they're recommending the COVID vaccine for kids.
I know that Texas is dealing with a very severe whooping cough upraiss like I think four times higher than the national average or something like that. Why Texas, And are you seeing any of those upticks in protests here in the Tri State?
Yeah, we are and we continue to see that. And Protestis is a bacteria and it's a vaccination. That's what teed app tatness dipteria a cellar Protestas is vaccinated for. But the vaccine kind of wanes over time, and you do treat it with zpac. It's just from isen and if it's a reportable condition. So if we see a kid with protessas, we will actually treat other members of the family their home.
Yeah, because as a child, you might get this if you're not vaccinated or not on the schedule yet. But of course as you get older, you don't get vaccine as often, and so that makes older people where the vaccine has worn off, it affects them.
Yeah, it does. And you won't get the big whoop of a cough that you do when you're older that you know, you characteristically know that barking cough if you've ever heard it. But you do get pretty, you know, pretty sort of bress. You got enthizin or asthma or something. It can it can pass it even more. And so it's not about it I diea sometimes you get the t down. It is recommended if you go travel. That's a travel vaccine.
Okay, Yeah, there's a lot of things I get. I mean nice for when I travel abroad, that's for sure, because a lot of nafty things out the world. Doctor Stephen Figin's medical director Hamilt County Public Health. We're seeing spike and RSV cases here among the young and older people. But it's going to be a rough season for that as well as the flu because we have a mutuded strain that came out since the vaccine was developed six
months ago. It's it's causing hospitalization rates to spike in the UK, Canada, Japan, Australia and the other half the world. And so expect a bad flu season. Not too late to get that flu vax or the RSV by the.
Way, right, absolutely get it now. You can get them together and you know, the shared decision making it's discussed about talking with your pharmacists qualifies. The attestation of a you know, comorbidity to get one or more of the vaccines is a self attestation. And so if you feel like you really would benefit from that. Go to your local pharmacy and talk with them.
Yeah, and that makes make sense, and it really you know, you can get right in these days too, because are we seeing a decrease in the number of people people getting vaccinations? What do you attribute that to?
Well, all kinds of stuff and that the various hesitancy and things like that. But we still feel a fair bit of confidence in the vaccine. And you talk to people and like, do you want to get this vaccine? They may not want to, but they think other people should. And so you know, there's still a high confidence. And there are lower rates for a lot of reasons, and you probably talked about most of them.
Yeah, And it seems to me like all vacs. It's weird because we had COVID, and granted it was controversial. We developed the fast dressed and thing and people went and I get it. You know, I'm not going to put that in my body.
You know.
I read, I read what was about and how you developed and said, Okay, I'm gonna I'd rather take my risk with a vaccine than take up my risk with COVID because I knew people actually got sick and died from COVID who were normally healthy people. You just don't know how your body is going to react. I had it a couple of times and I'm fine, but someone else may give us perfectly healthy and wind up passing. And this was in you know, twenty twenty, twenty twenty one.
Since then, we've learned a lot about this. But it seems like because of that vaccine hesitate with COVID that's now spread to other vaccines. Is that what you're saying?
You know, good ass, and we're actually last year we dropped alow fifty percent for pediatric influenza vaccination. Forty nine percent pediatric kids got vackcin to against influenza. In addition to the biggest influenza season we had last year, there were two hundred and eighty seven pediatric deaths eighty seven. That's the highest in two thousand and four, and half of those kids were totally healthy, had nothing else going on.
I ended up dying from the flu. So it's still there and it's still important to get the vaccine.
Yeah, gotcha. When you guys monitor, do you put all this stuff on your dashboard or the Hamlet County Public Health website? What the data is it's interesting how you collect that. Could you take us through where those numbers come from and how you get your accuracy?
Yeah, so for rest of ours is it's hospitalization. So that's the one thing you clearly know if you're in the hospital and you have a positive test, you definitely know you have it. And so it's the one. So it's for RC COVID influenza that data Hall hospitals are required to report and they report up electronically through the Ohio Department of Health and we get that data from the High Department of Health and that's how we get that.
We report it locally report Hambleton County south Ofst. Ohio as you see on the website, but it does come through ODH, which is anytime there's a glitch or anything in that reporting, there's a delay or possibly an underreporting of the numbers. We think that's happening now for this month, and we're working to reconcile that.
Yeah, I gotcha. The other thing too is you guys look at wastewater treatment plants.
Right, yeah, you do, and so here locally there's three wastewater plants that are monitoring mostly for COVID nationally to monitor flud polio as well as RSV. The thing about RSV SCOTT is, for the most part it's the kids that shed who are putting it in a diaper, who doesn't go to the wastewater. So it's a little bit of underreporting. But you could, you know, get some trend from adult RSC. We don't measure RSC locally though.
That's incredible how granular you can get into the details what's in our wastewater right?
Well, and there is one case of polio not here but in New York, and it picks it up in the wastewater. It is an absolutely amazing technology.
How do you know it's uh, how do you pick out one case out of some water?
Well, there had to be more than one case, And so you pick up the little sipe in the DNA. Not only did they know it was polio, they know it was wild type meaning not vaccine associated polio, which is amazing.
That is incredible. How much there's just gotta be so much information out there that's noise. On top of if you're getting down the world a couple of cases of polio and a sample of wastewater, there's gonna be a ton of other interesting data you pull out of there.
Well, yeah, I mean, but Pablo is very unique DNA and it's like CSI, you know, in terms of DNA testing, and it's amazing. The guys that do this are super geeks and they really go on and on about it.
I bet. Yeah. It's always a fascinating dinner discussion when the when the guys who look through wastewater and the cowboy, it makes me want to order a second round.
Uh.
Doctor Stephen Fagin's is here. He is a medical director Hamlin County Public Health. Expect a bigger RSV season, a bigger flu season as well. COVID numbers should be about the same we expect or more.
Yeah, so far, so good. Probably a little uptick, you know, around Christmas or so. That's why we started basically looking at the big three altogether respiratory virus season and what is the impact, mostly around hospitalizations, and mostly so we can know how many beds do we need or how much capacity do we need as a region.
Gotcha, what's going to keep you awake at night here for the next few months this season?
You know everything? God, but I do. I am concerned about this shift in subclade for a three into for influenza and just what that might mean, because you know that's they call it vaccine evasion, which means that our immune invasion, so previous immunity or vaccine immunity you know, isn't doesn't work nearly as well. When that human glutin thing really changes, that could make a big difference. And we could see an even more significant flu season this
year than we did last year. And the vaccine still works. Vaccine still helps. It may not be, you know, as much as as it typically might, but it definitely does health as well as covery calls wash your hands and do what your grandmother told me to do.
And advice is still to wash your damn hands and cover your mouth when you sneek. Yeah, it's it's I mentioned before you came on and I got the flu last year. I have to get the vaccine every season, and I hit me and somebody said, hey, you know, Slan, why are you getting the vaccine? It doesn't work. I'm like, I'm thinking, but if I was, if I've got that crappy for three days, I could have I'd probably been in the hospital if I didn't have the vaccine to
at least help my body deal with us. So you even get you do get some protection and some of those proteins in your body. Even if you they wind up miss guessing and we have some sort of mutation like we have this year.
Right, oh my gosh. Yeah, And then you know, the flu vaccine really kind of only works for about five to six months. That's why you get one every year. That's why you kind of time it so that you sort of you know, certainly two weeks before the holiday. He's got two weeks to have the impact. And it definitely works, and get one every year. There's a medicine called him Solues that also work, but you have to take it within forty hours of the start of symptoms.
But you always know when flu stars it is a sudden fever, feeling bad. You know time that that occurred, so it's a little bit easier to time the medication, gotcha. Yeah.
You know people go, oh yeah, the stomach flu for a day, Well, that's not the flu. That's something entirely gasting, rise, something entirely different. You have the flu. You know you had the flu. It's a good solid week of feeling a feeling like you've been over by a school bus.
Well, and there is a virus called neuro virus the winter vomiting signal, and so that's another varus you see in the winter. And we had a pretty significant neauro virus season last year as well. But that's upper GI just like up restory upper gif. You're vomiting. You know, it's irritating the stomach. You haven diary, you know it's irritating the colon.
Right right, all right, useful information and this is why we do it at a ten ten thirty because it's far enough between breakfast and lunch is to not nausey your further Dutch. Stephen Fagan's medical director Hamlin County Public Health. Always appreciate you coming on. Thanks for the time.
Thank you, scot Care.
All right, well there you go. You got your information for Warner's four Arms, Scott's Loan Show with News and three on seven hundred WW. Everyone needs help every now and then, and she's here to help us get our heads right.
This is Mental Health Monday with mental health expert Julie Hattershire.
All right, the holidays are coming up. We start with Thanksgiving. You know what that means. That means fighting, That means pies getting thrown across the room, ceilings full of mashed potatoes, picking pieces of cranberry out of the paintings on the wall, clocks that are filled with the guts of turkeys because people just don't get along, damn it. It makes you want to eat Thanksgiving dinner by yourself. Julie hattershre welcome back, are you?
I'm fine.
I'm laughing at what you just said. That sounds like a middle school food fight.
Probably. I've bet there's plenty of households at the vault into that. It's like an episode of Landman. Every time they sit down they eat, the food's getting thrown around. It's unbelievable, But that's true for a lot though. It's like, Man, you get around relatives you only see maybe during the holidays, maybe once a year or maybe twice a year, and there's a sense of dread out there. There's a lot of people that dread Thanksgiving or Christmas.
There are a lot of people, yeah, yeah, that dread the holidays for that very reason.
People they don't.
See very often and don't actually have a lot in common with or even enjoy the company of that they have to.
Spend time with.
It can be hard.
What drives that.
Well, I mean, you know you choose your friends, right, You don't choose your coworkers, and you don't choose your family, but you do choose people to spend time with.
And so if family, if family are the people.
You're spending the holidays with, and you don't you don't like them, you don't have a lot in common with them, They find.
You annoying, you find them annoying.
It can be really it can.
Cause this sense of dread and taste for the holidays make you want to spend them by yourself, maybe because that's a little bit easier than going home wherever you're going for the family holiday.
Yeah.
I always love it when you know, I don't know, you get one of your cousins of sech extended family in there and it's at some point, you know, she's going to bring about the topic of a genocide in Gaza, which is always uplifting holiday talk.
That sound Yeah, isn't it lovely that people will do that at the holidays with everybody around. So if you have people like that who you know are going to want to talk about things you don't want to talk about, doing a little prep work ahead of time can be really really helpful for you.
So the first thing that.
I recommend people do is you're probably going to know who those people are at the event who are likely to go places conversationally that you don't want to go, unless it's everybody, in which case you.
Might want to sit this one out, but there are.
Probably a few people who are likely to do that.
I recommend that you prep a few alternative topics of conversation specific to each one of those people, and even maybe write them down and stick them in in a card in your back pocket or whatever that you can go to the restroom and figure out, Okay, what am I going to talk to Aunt Susie about because she's going off on politics again.
Oh yeah, they just renovated their kitchen.
Let me ask her about that when I get back out there.
So you can prep some pivot topics ahead of time specific to the person so that you don't feel like you're caught in a trap.
You can you have a way out, you have a door out.
Okay, God, it makes sense. I you know, I was
just thinking. It's just talked about this too. There's a great marketing opportunity, you know, if if we ever want to get cigarette smoking back in the fold, this is a good time to take it up because you just go, hey, yeah, I'm gonna go grab a smoke and it Yeah, I'm gonna go and just and just stand out there for you know, even like fake cigarettes they sell the good fake ones on looks like you're burning a you know, you're burning a dart, and you know it's okay, and
people don't want to be around that they see the smoke. I'm my god, I can just keep going out there doing that. Take your little you know, five ten minute break.
I love that idea.
I have clients who have a very politically divided family and this year, the rule is you can talk politics at Thanksgiving, but you have to do it outside. And they live in a very cold part of the country, and.
So they you can talk politics, but you have.
To talk them outside of the house. You can't talk about them in the house. And so anybody who feels compelled to do that has to go stand out in the cold.
That's a good way to do it. You get you get in time out outdoor time out is what's happening.
I love that exactly, That's exactly what you get and it's going to shorten the time you do it because it's going to be really chilly and windy at night. And so they that's how they've decided to do it.
Last year they try to know politics Thanksgiving. That didn't work.
This year, they say.
Politics are fine, but you have to do it outside of the house.
And I will be curious to see how that goes.
Is that the big one from your house, most peoples, is the big one? Politics? People are talking well, I would say just I think we're all, even those on the extreme side of it, they seem would you seem like we're so exhausted and frustrated that I don't know if it's going to be as bad as it's been in years past.
I wonder about that too, because I think we've all kind of realized that we're not going to change the opinions of people who aren't flexible. Right, no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on, if you've got somebody who's on the very far other side, nothing you can say or do is going to change their perspective
or their mind. If you've got people who are more centrist, and you can have a more reasoned conversation that that might be worth doing if you feel like they're reasonable people and you can have a nuanced conversation.
But if you are on one end of these other people are.
On the other end, nobody's going to change your mind and you're not going to change theirs.
So let's move on to other things.
I think there are a lot of people who are pragmatic like that.
I also think there are a lot of people who are really.
Staunchly grounded in their beliefs and feel like it is not only their right but their responsibility to try to convert others. So I do think politics is one. I mean, there are.
All the usual topics. Religion is another one. What's going on.
With your kids, how they're ruining their own lives is another one. There are so many hot topics for people. It varies by family, and so just knowing what yours are and what your particular sensitive spots are and then having some strategies if those come up, to be able to manage them effectively, I think is the best you can do.
Julie Hattish share our licensed mental health therapist on The Scot's Loan Show on seven hundred wo to a mental health Monday, and we're talking about the looming Thanksgiving holiday, which is great for all of us, most of us anyway, but sometimes you get family members over extended family, and it can get a little hairy when it comes to conversations. How do you steer yourself out of these things? Why can't we just go listen? You know, I'm really not interested.
It seems like the easiest thing to do.
You absolutely can, and sometimes people will respect that, and sometimes they won't. So, you know, I'm thinking specifically of a family I know where one of the kids is not performing up to the grandparents expect and the grandparents.
Continually ask the kid, so, what are you doing with your life?
Why aren't you doing anything different? Why aren't you doing this or that?
And the kid tries, well young adult not.
Kids, tries to say, look, you know.
I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to talk about this, and they just don't listen. They keep hounding. So you can try not to attend every drama you're invited to, but sometimes people will continue.
To hound you.
So in that instance, it can be really good.
To have an ally on your side and have a look or a signal or a code word that says, hey, come in and rescue me. And have that person come in and redirect the conversation or pull you away to help in the kitchen, or take you outside for a walk or whatever. Have somebody who can help direct you if you're not able to manage the conversation on your own.
Another opportunity there is hire someone like me to come to your Thanksgiving and be that guy. I don't know. Problem is, shut the hell up. Nobody wants to hear your crab carl.
You totally could, and you get free food.
Out of it. So what's your deal that to win all around everybody?
You are so direct. Everybody wins because you were so directed. Just say no, I'm not having that conversation.
Leave thee he answer the question quite pressing them. We'll turn it around on you. You think you should be so taught and social security right now, I think you're a little younger. What do you you know, get on their mouth, you take it out your medication exactly. Let's jump on you really clear and.
Direct about that, and other people have a hard time being that clear and direct, and sometimes people don't stop when you tell them to stop. So, you know, being able to escape, having a rescue and an exit strategy can be really helpful for folks.
Yeah, and answer, now, how does the supply when it comes to let's say coworkers, Because we have time in the year we're going to do in holiday parties and you know there's generally complimentary drinks and beverages, and you get cornered and that that that's a whole different model because you see these people all the time, as opposed to maybe a certain family member at least once a year.
Right, right, right, right, So in that case, it can be really helpful to have a way of saying that you disagree.
That isn't your wrong.
You can say I see it differently, or.
My experience has not been that.
My experience has been different than that, or in my.
World view, it looks a little different. So you can just pivot and say I see it differently. And then again, it.
Can really be helpful to have those topics of conversation to change it to So what are your family doing for the holidays? Do you celebrate with friends, do you travel, what do you do? You can change the topic to something different really deftly and steer it away.
And then again, if.
It's coworkers, you can always just excuse yourself, go talk to somebody else, Go refresh your drink, Go take a smoke break, even if you actually don't smoke, right, Go say oh, I see so and so leaving. I need to say goodbye to them before they go, oh, there's Joe. I've been trying to button hole them about this project. I want to see if I can get ten minutes next week. You can find a way to remove yourself
and most people will be pretty gracious about that. Not everybody, but most people will be pretty gracious about that.
Yeah, all right. And then are some people that just don't get the message and they continue. That's a whole other topic entirely.
Well, there are.
People who don't get the message and they just continue.
And that's when sometimes you have to get more direct and you have to say, look, I'm interested in having a good time tonight or spending time with friends and family. This is not a topic I want to get into. I really don't want to talk about this right now, or I don't want to talk about this with you right now, or I don't want to talk about this ever again.
In the history of ever.
You can say any of those things and then just refuse to engage, and you can remove yourself. You can say, look, I get that this is important to you, but I don't want to go here, and you go someplace else and you talk to somebody else, or you remove yourself
from the conversation. If you're seated at a table, you turn to the person to your left, if the person do your right won't leave you alone, or you engage the person across the table from you, or you actually get up and move your seat, so you just stop
the conversation and focus on something else. And yes, that could be seen as rude, but if you use it as the last resort when the other person won't stop bugging you, then they're actually the ones being rude and you're actually the one being polite and holding a solid boundary.
Yeah, if you can do that, I think most people just suffer on their minds going God help me, and you know there's no help to be had at that point. You just nod your head and okay, well that's good, okay, and they just keep going and going. What about going to a family dinner, a Thanksgiving, Christmas? I'm going to applies for all these things where you know that there's like I don't know somebody's going to bring up bring up a past grievance, because it happens every year.
It does absolutely, So first of all, maybe you don't need to engage in that conversation.
Maybe it has nothing to do with you.
Maybe they bring up a past grievance with somebody else and you can just mentally check out. If it does have something to do with you, you can say, listen, I will happily discuss this with you, but not hearing now, Let's set a time that we can talk about it later. Or I feel like we've covered this in years past. I don't feel like there's any more to say, and I'm not interested in discussing it with you anymore. And again, remove yourself from the situation.
It's really about holding.
Your own personal boundaries, not being the person who brings up the past grievance and ruins the party, but holding your own boundaries and having some escape strategies if you need them.
Yeah, all right, So we've covered those angles in particular. Julie Hatter share a relative to getting together and uncomfortable conversations at what point, should you just go, Okay, I'm out of here. It's always a bad look when you start. You know, I'm storming off, but it's like, okay, we're leaving.
Well if you are, if you are unable to have a useful, worthwhile conversation with anybody at the event, Let's say you are the only person who is not believing a particular way or engaging in a particular conversation, and
you don't want to. If it starts to get antagonistic, if you start to feel yourself getting in antagonistic and you can't back yourself down into a place of peace and calm, If it looks like things are going sideways and there doesn't seem to be any other avenue to explore, then you can say, look, I think it's time for us to go. This isn't going in a direction that I want for us or for you. I don't want anybody's holiday to be.
Ruined, yours or hours. It's time for us to go.
And you make your exit, you politely, as politely as you can. If you're the one who's really worked up, you politely say I'm stepping out, and you do. We hope that's the last resort, But that's also a really clear consequence. And actions have consequences. So if you are the person who's been trying to say no, I don't want to know, I don't want to know, I don't want to and the others aren't listening, then a consequence of that is you remove yourself and they don't get
to talk to you anymore. They don't have you at their party or their dinner. Actions have consequences. Okay, we hope that that's the last resort.
What does it say and how do you addrest the person who simply doesn't get the message you don't want to have this conversation. If they just continue to pester people, is it up to the host to throw them out? What do you do if it's a relative and.
The relatives I think I think the host should definitely set some expectations. And the host is the one with a certain kind of power.
I'm not saying all the power, because.
Families are power dynamic, interesting, but the host has a certain kind of power because you are at their home and the host can say, hey, listen, look, Aunt, Susie, Uncle Joe, no politics tonight, please, I've asked you, I'm going to remind you please no politics tonight. You're making making people uncomfortable, and the host can then ask those
offending parties if they're not paying attention to leave. That would be a really big thing to do, though, I mean that would take a lot of That would take a lot of gumption on somebody's part to ask folks.
But a church bells? Are you kidding me? That'd be awesome exactly.
But if they're being that disruptive to everybody else's holiday and there's nothing that anybody can think or figure out to do to back them down and to make that better, it is an option. I would say it's the last resort option, but it is an option available to say, look, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to ask you to leave because everybody.
Else is trying to enjoy themselves when you're making it impossible.
That's a job for you, a holiday bouncer. How about that?
You you should hire yourself out to be the truth teller, the stopper of all awkward conversations, and the enforcer the muscle.
If things go sideways.
And you get free food and you get paid for.
It, and all you do is miss a holiday with your own family.
You shut up here and this pie is horrible, by the way. Oh yeah, this is what a business model right there, Just for a good food critic, right right, right, roll. Keep in mind that's smoking kills, but it also can get you out of uncomfortable situations during the holidays. Just something enough.
Absolutely, you can also pretend to take a call.
You don't have to smoke.
You can also pretend to take a call and move to a different room.
You know, my stocking a carton of Marlborough's. She's Julie hattersh heare licensed metal health expert at that be Connected dot care. Hey, Juliet be Connected dot care. She jumps in every Monday morning and mental health Monday here on the Scott Sloan Show. We'll talk again next week. Have a wonderful holiday. Okay, thanks you, I appreciate you. We got to time out in and when a return to the show. We have all sorts of stuff, believe it or not, happened in Washington. We have the Supreme Court
on terrafs for this matter. It looks like in some of these things go okay, well, what's the point of the Supreme Court going to wind up ruling that terrifs are illegal and what are the consequences of that too as we head in the holiday shopping season here too, when we're paying a little bit more for everything. It's all in play in the Scott's Loan Show seven hundred WWD. Since now do you want to.
Be an American idiot?
Sloaney back on seven hundred WLW. It is the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, the old i e EPA boring but important. It's normal reserved for national security crisises to impose widespread tariffs, and of course this has let a constitutional showdown a fire. Some ninety billion dollars has been collected under the t AFS under Trump and China. Of course they're easing their measures, so in that case it
looks like it might be working. But it's before the Serame Court as we speak, and it could reshape how future presidents are able to use that power. On the show this morning, Kyle Moran, he's a political analyst and at Young Voices he's senior contributed there. Welcome, how are you.
I'm good?
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I appreciate it. So the big issue here as we debate tariffs and if they're effective or not. Is that the President invoked the Powers Act and designed for a national security crisis like wars or terrorism or seizing assets things like that to impose Trey teffs on China. Is this a misuse of emergency powers? Because that's what the High Court is going to decide here.
Yeah, it basically is guaranteed to be some sort of abuse of overreach in terms of the emergency powers granted to him through that Act, because from day one when he rolled these out, he was already exempting very specific industries that are economically important because he knows the impact that tariff would have on those would be detrimental to the United States. But critically, this shows that it's not
based on national security. When he's exempting copper, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, all these other types of materials from the tariffs, then what is it? What is he even tariffing a lot of the needs a lot less important goods that we're importing. So therefore it's not based on national security, which he
himself has sort of admitted very at various times. He has gone on record as saying it's going to be used to pay down the national debt to do now to do these stimulus checks as a source of revenue rather than as a national security concern.
Yeah, and that is a concern too, is purely a revenue standpoint, And so far we've had some indication that the conservative justice are even pushing back on that. Amy Cony Barrett and Justice Chief Justice Rod John Roberts said that the vehicle is in position of taxes on Americans and that has always been a core power of Congress. Those early indicators certainly don't indicate how they're going to vote, because there's been times that I've thrown that out there.
They're challenging it. But that if you're looking at the tea lives here, it doesn't bode well for this.
No, it doesn't because like I was, like I said, so much of this has not even been like the opposition criticizing the administration, but the administration undermining its own position. So it really does. It does get into some tricky legal battles for the administration to keep the standing. But I do have to I do have to step back and think these powers were passed to be very limited in times of in times of actual concerns to national security.
We have reached a point where Congress has seeded so much power to the executive. The point of passing that Act in nineteen seventy seven was never to institute broad sweeping powers for the executives to just simply impose and pull off and impose more tires, willy nilly. That was not what it was for. It's not what it's for now. And the country is not designed to be run by somebody who has essentially more and more unlimited power for four years before an election.
If the Supreme Court rules against these terroriffts does that, then call them the re examination of the executive order power of the part of the presidency and executive. I mean we saw Biden and the autopen do it with impunity, and Trump said, well, here, hold my diet coke, watch me make a bunch of executive orders. In Congress has absolutely no. They're feckless, right, I mean, you can shut the government down for forty something days over god knows what.
They can't really pass any income to conclusion, other than releasing the Epstein files because it covers their asses. But does this change that? How we how we maybe that the Congress actually is forced to do their job.
I'm not optimistic on that it will limit the executive in terms of being able to do this on again, off again charade, which has reached incredible levels where it's literally back in April and May, it was every day you would open the news new tariff, and then one of those tariffs was canceled, and then the next day more tariffs. So that type of stuff would be much
harder for future executives. But to your point about Biden, with the autopen and all these things, Congress has essentially feeded, like I said, so much of its own power to the executive on a broad range of issues. The Supreme Court doesn't have the ability to step in and say Congress needs to do this. It can say that the president doesn't have the ability himself to do it, but it can't make Congress do its job, and certainly, as we are seeing, Congress can't make Congress do its own job.
So we are in an unfortunate position there and I'm not gone through them that will see much of an improvement.
Yeah, well, I think I'm hoping anyway, uh com moran that if the if the Supreme Court rolls against him with tariffs, which we'll get into the repercussions of that in a second, but on a bigger scale, and that
is limiting executive office powers and executive branch powers. That there's a roadblock there, and the other one is going to be Venezuela at some point, I imagine you know that's going to come to some sort of fruition here because we're blowing up ships off the coast of Venezuela, which, yeah, allegedly drug runners, but we've had numerous studies and the like that have been done that says, well, Venezuela is not a drug problem. Maybe Mexico, and now he's considering
other countries. So you could kind of like maybe put a couple of pillars up there, maybe a couple of speed bumps for these guys with a branch down the line. We'll see what happens. But relative to the ninety billion collected, that is another big problem there. The of course, the money's coming back in, but would there be a refund and how would that even work?
That is an excellent question because this is something on this scale that's never been attempted before. So if these are struck down, there would have to be refunds. But depending on when this actually happens depending on if the government has spent this money. Trump is already eyeing using those funds for these two thousand dollars stimulus checks, which wouldn't even be enough to cover those by the way, but it would create a very unprecedented situation. We would
have to see exactly how this plays out. But to answer your question, yes, they would have to be refunded well.
And the other element here is if we have a thirty eight trillion dollar deficit, why are we handing out two thousand dollars checks exactly?
Which is part of the issue here. Again, we saw the impact back under the Biden administration, incredibly big spending and money printing in one which drive inflation up to nine percent, and we are still feeling the results of that. We're still feeling the impact of that for almost five years on now. So when the inflation goes up like that, it never comes down again. The inflation rate at which prices increase may come down, but the prices that went
up they're just there and you're stuck with that. You will never see twenty nineteen prices for a lot of goods again. And that's the unfortunate reality of the money system that we have now, where we just print more and more, and almost certainly we would have to print a considerable amount of money to make these two thousand
dollars checks happen. And then on top of that, Trump hates the current Federal Reserve charge your own power, who's not flallaced by any means, but he wants to replace them with somebody who's going to be even more dubbish and turning the money print is back on and just print prints.
And you know, as someone who is I guess more libertarian than anything, and I just distrust government top to bottom. I don care my team, your team. Kind of nonsense. There's an apocrisy test here. So how many Republicans who absolutely celebrate the tariffs in all this and the bombing of ships off Venezuela, wouldn't they be outrage of a Democratic president of the same. I mean, look at this one. We talk about the Affordable Care Act, which is they're right,
it's subsidy. You're taking taxpayer money to give other people a break on their healthcare. Healthcare is too damn expensive. Let's do something the lower the cost of healthcare, as opposed to just giving aid to people and redistributing wealth. It doesn't work. It's too expensive, it's not a four. It doesn't make it affordable, it makes it less affordable. Subsidy does using that same logic, And I'm right about that.
Republicans should be talking about what we're doing here with Trump and be equally outraged that now we're going to take money that could go pay off the deficay and we're going to give people subsidies.
Yeah, and to your point, the healthcare situation is something the GOP has basically ignored for the last a decade minimum and at this point it's reaching a breaking point where they just can't ignore it anymore. They tried to appeal and replace Obamacare in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, it went down in pretty famous ways, and the deal they wanted to pass is not a great deal to begin with. But ever since then, they just haven't tried much of anything.
And the only people talking about healthcare reform now are the progressive And that's a very dangerous situation because when people when people see that their health care costs are skyrocketing, which they are, and the only people even talking about it are going to be AOC and Bernie Sanders, Like that is how you wind up with people like Zar Mombami is mayor, even though he doesn't have direct control
over health care. People just hear these things from the left and resonate with it, and not illegitimately either because they they cannot afford these cramy surge surges in these cranses. So the GT really needs to get going on healthcare.
Yeah, I've said that all along, Kyle is. You know the Democrats plan is here's groupon we're going to get lower cost on your healthcare. We're gonna take something else's money and give it to you. Okay, that that's not a plan. That is just a band aid, is what that is. It makes things worse, not better in the long run. Look what the subsidies done to the college industry. You know, college is out of control because the subject is the same thing. And then I look at the
Republicans and it's been fifteen years. They have no answer on this. All I hear is well eat better. Well, that's okay, eat better, but don't take tayl and all. Okay, but I've got cancer now and I can't afford it. I'm going to take the subsidy. That's that's what we're faced with.
I know, it's it's absolute mannits and the talking points that they use for some of it is are legitimate. So when they were talking about not wanting any legal immigrants to be on our government subside of healthcare, this is a legitimate concern. But that is not addressing the issue that to millions of American suits and are seeing their healthcare comps go up more than double, sometimes triple
over the last several years. Myself, I have seen mine go up more than doubles over the last four years. So this is unsustainable, and nobody on the right is even talking about it, let alone at proposing real plans on it.
Yeah. Yeah, And it was supposed to make America great again, and I think healthcare is certainly a cornerstone of that, and to some degree, people like Marjorie Tayler Green are accurate on that one too. Let's focus on this kind of stuff. You've had fifteen years to come up with a plan, and there's no plan at this point. It's nothing but platitudes, is what I'm getting. He is a commed.
People on the.
Right have been attacking her over this, and I'm thinking to myself, this is this is madness. I find it incredible. I'm raising Marjorie Taylor Green of all people. But she is absolutely right about this, and I respect her toward her courage and standing up to people who are otherwise just burying their head in the stands and depending all of well, it's not And I respect the fact that she's addressing him.
He is a common ran political analyst and young voice, a senior contributor, and talking about tariffs now before the Supreme Court, and a will decide whether not these are illegal or not. If it's a no go, we got to talk about refunding money to these countries. But you know, at the same time, you look at getting China to the table to kind of negotiate, look at some of the deals done with other countries. Would it be tough for the Supreme Court don do all that.
Well?
In terms of executive the president negotiating with foreign countries, he certainly has pretty broad powers there. But the issue is that he is currently arguing that the tariffs are for national security and in no small part using that
as leverage. But the issue is that he has also made so many other statements as well as other people in his administration making other statements that directly undermine that argument, because on one day, the case will be made that we need tariff to protect American industry, the next day it will be that tariffs are needed as a temporary measure to get other countries to lower their tariffs on us, and then the day after that it will be that we need tariffs to generate revenues that we can pay
off our debt. So nobody, the administration's position on this changes on the daily and it's going to be a very challenging hill for the administration to climb, given how all over the places has been.
Yeah, it's almost like corporate America in a way, is that you know, we live quarter to quarter. We don't care about tomorrow. We just care about the bottom line today, and we may cut our nose off to spite our face, but damn it, we got to do that right now. And it's now that's permeated to politics to agree. If you think about it, is if this is allowed, you want and you know, Republicans will celebrate this big win by the Supreme Court and the tariffs can stand. The
present can do that. Okay, great, But one of the same people will be yelling and angry about this in the future next year or five years or eight whenever, and at some point a Democrat will be back in charge and maybe they go, hey, you know what, climate change is an economic emergency. We're going to impose carbon tariffs exactly.
And that's why, that's why this whole system was set up not to be the way we're hurringly experiencing it, because we are. If you if you have a country in which you have radical changes of of national policy every four years, you're going to go through these wild whiplashes of of moving to the right for one administration moving to the left, and the other administration. And this will happen to some extent no matter what the system is,
because the executive does have some power. But it was never designed to be this wild swing between Biden comes into office and because he's president, he can do all of these far left things and open the border in at least ten million illegal immigrants, which nobody voted for. Nobody voted in twenty twenty to open the border and let ten million people into the country. That was not
part of the campaign. It just happened with no input from the American electorate, but despite widespread opposition to it, it just continued for three and a half years before he really tried to address them. Then Trump comes in. Nobody voted. I do not seriously believe that anyone really voted for such high tariffs on other countries. People may, as he did talk about it during a campaign to his credit on that, but I really don't think that this is my bunch of a huge point that people
ended up voting on. So these these massive swings are just detrimental to the stability of our country.
Yeah, there are checks and balances and we need them and this will uh, this definitely will decide. It is a huge case before the court. He is a calm moran with the young voices. Thanks again, Kyle, great stuff, appreciate it.
Thank you very much for having me.
Yeah, I will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court does. Congress, I'll silent on this one. Just out of the show. News updates as we slow it down here headed to Thanksgiving Day on Thursday. Short week for most of us, hopefully you too, and uh, rough weekend for sports in Cincinnati unless you are one of the team's named Xavier. It sucked largely, we'll do Bengals stuff with James Rapine from SI's Bengals Talk dot Com and Lockdow Bengals a daily podcast. That's next on the Scott
Sloan Show seven hundred w WELW. What a horrible weekend for since these sports, unless, of course your team had Xavier and it's name and that was pretty good. But you see FC and the Bengals all lost at home, Bengals getting beat by the Patriots twenty six twenty Bengals fall to three and eight. Up next short week, it's Thanksgiving Night at Baltimore A twenty on the national stage and will we burrow or won't we borrow? We'll find out. James Rapine is here from Bengals Talk dot Com and
the Daily Podcast Locked on Bengals. James, what an interesting day yesterday was. You can't help but think that if either Joe Burrow or Jamar Chase were in that game, Bengals win.
No doubt, no doubt that the defense did it not and they did their job. Now were they perfect? No, they weren't perfect. Some of the stuff they did give up was ridiculous. Five they had to pick six, They had multiple goal line stands where the Patriots have it inside the five and don't score on nine plays, and then on another one you hold them to three at the one yard line, you hold them to a field goal.
So yeah, if you get that kind of effort on defense, the way this team is built, with Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and t Higgins up until the end, you expect to win that game. And obviously that they did. I think that's clearly a big reason why they lost the game.
Well, we kind of knew Joe Burrow is up in there, and you know, you raid the team leaves, and the way coach was talking last week seemed to indicate like you think Joe Burrow is going to play, And I'm like, well, you know what, let's rest him. He said he was sore after practice, So you know, let's focus on the season's over for all intents and purposes. Anyway, this just seals it even more. But let's focus on the Ravens game, getting them back and getting them ready. But the big
one to me was Jamar Chase. And I don't think it's lost on anyone that if Jamar starts that game, probably you got another target, especially with the injuries, Right, joshavask goes down, Higgins goes down with the concussion, and know Jamar Chase, that's a tough roat to ho even with Joe Burrow. But I think if Jim R. Chase were back, yeah, probably got a couple more catches, passes, first downs, maybe a touchdown. I think the outcome is different.
For sure, and even late, let's just say that everything happens the same. I think the offense would have been better early in the game, but late, Zach Terrish probably far more likely to go forward on fourth and one from his own forty five if Jamar Chase is on the field, and he should have went anyway regardless. But I do think right, I think Jamar makes an impact. I think Joe Blacker would have been far more in
rhythm early because he wasn't. And that's the difference, especially going up against a Patriots team that has won eighth straight coming in and now nine straight.
Yeah, the Bengals offense didn't score a TD for almost an hour against the Patriots, but they weren't blown out. You know, it's a competitive loss, but you know, the whole moral victory thing is it's a waste because you know, does it actually help the team move forward or is it just masking problems that won't be addressed.
Yeah, I mean I think the moral vic reads are They're not a young team, they're not an up and coming team. They're a team that was supposed.
To win this year.
And so even on defense, right, there's there's no moral victories. Their linebackers were awful yesterday. They could not guard sountor Henry and in some pretty obvious moments had some breakdowns. Now, I do think they played much better had the defense showed up against the Jets, while they win by three scores, had that defense showed up against the Bears, I think they win that game. Right that there are reasons to
buy into all. Well, maybe what Al Golden is teaching is working for everyone but the rookie linebackers, who again I think struggled mightily.
Feels like Geno Stone has that one good game of year one big seven tackles, has a pick six pass the defender, he had what the tackle one fourth and goal from the one yard line. He was great.
He was he was great, and he deserves a ton of credit because he he played well. He heard it, he heard all the crem and I probably led the charge when it came to Geno stilling criticism and I and I'm fine with that. And guess what I want players like that that are struggling, that's how they should respond. They should respond. And I don't mean tick six. You can't really control that. Drake made through it right, the Genie.
Really like the return through it right, the Geno. But on the very first player, second play from scrimmage, I noticed Geno soon his effort level in intensity, and it was its fuilt different than what I had seen, watched every staff of them all year, different than what I had seen this year. And whatever that was, that needs to be what he plays with every week. And that's what I would tell him if I'm the Bengals coaching staff.
But whatever pissed him off or made him mad or whatever he played with maybe, and maybe it is just reading my criticize.
Who knows.
I'm just kidding.
It's not me like a lot is absolutely you, James. They all listen to what you have to say. Your weight, carry, your mouth carries enough way to break an ordinary man's jaw, offer cry out.
But but whatever it is, keep doing it, because I did notice really from the first and intensely difference with Gino's Stone, and that's how you should play on defense, especially a defense that's been back.
James Rapen from Bengals Talk dot Com Lockdown Bengals. The Bengals lost there three and eight. Right now, Pittsburgh Baltimore up next on Thanksgiving Night. Let's go back and do Pittsburgh again. Uh place, Because we're talking about Geno Stone. He was really bad against Pittsburgh, but he flashed yesterday, that's for sure. Zach Tedter says that the Bengals haven't lost a game because of Joe Flacco yet he's now throwing pick sixes in consecutive weeks. His passer rating was
just to tick over sixty three. At what point do you look at this and go, it's just it's untenable. There's a reason why, Zach, there's a reason why Joe Flacco is a backup. This is it.
Yeah, for sure, he's come back down to earth, and I do think help is a part of it. He told me he was healthy after the game, and I think that's that's relative right. A forty year old quarterback that's dealing with a throwing shoulder injury and now a finger injury. But I do think he'll be active. I do think he's been good enough to be Like when they traded for him, as you just said, this, you're going to get I think everybody in the building, I think we I think we would have all signed up
for it. And the downside is is that when he was playing that elite level of football for a few games and they were humming on offense and in a rhythm, he did not. He did not the defense needed to back him up and to get a couple more wins. He only is one win as a Bengals quarterback. That shouldn't be the case. He shouldn't be one in five. He should probably be three and three. And that's not
the case. And that's unfortunate. And that's why the Bengals are never going to have a real discussion about the playoffs this year.
Could they have started Joe Burrow?
I would I would have and I said that Saturday. This isn't my on sight. I get the frustration. Look, if you're bringing Joe Burrow back at all this week, and I fully expect that to be the case, why not bring him back when it's their three seven when they have an actual chance to go three and seven to five and seven in a five day stretch to get back into the playoff mix, and they would. If they were five and seven, I would consider them back
in the playoffs night, except for everything that had happened. Obviously, they would still need to win a bunch of games. I get it, But that's what I would have done. I said, if I'm bringing Joe Burrow back in what feels like a meaningless season, I wouldn't give him every opportunity to have a chance at making a run at it, even if it's improbable. And there are going to be people that say, well what if he wasn't ready and
all of those things. Well, the difference between playing Sunday and Thursday, there's not much of one outside of a few days rest, and obviously have a short week. I get that. I get that, the concern of playing on a short week. I also think that after a couple of full practices last week, Burrough would have been good to go, or good enough to go to play. And if you're doing that, give him a chance, because now I wouldn't personally, I wouldn't play in Thursday.
Would you playing Thursday?
I wouldn't. What does that do? That just puts him on the road in Baltimore, exposed against the division rival, who knows what's going to happen. That's that's how I looked at It.
Feels like, I mean, you know, okay, so you don't win out the rest of the season. They're already selling tickets at twenty percent off every long game. Now make it, make it half off Bogo, some sort of Bengals Bogo deal for the rest of the season. I don't get why you would put your quarterback, especially Joe Burrow, the
entire operations built around him. You're going to need him healthy in the off season to work and then get ready for hopefully a better twenty twenty six, a playoff twenty twenty six, because let's face it, you know the windows shrinking every single year. It doesn't seem prudent to put the guy on the field. Why does need the rep.
Yeah, I I think he wants to play, right, So that's it. And look going into last week when he was really starting to make his push and I could get the sense that he was going to push to play and play this week, I said, all right, Bengals, do one or the other pick away either say hey, you're not going to play and don't play him, which
means moving forward, don't playing Thursday. Maybe you give him a full week of practice ahead a buffle if you really play, but he's not going to get one real practice this week and then he's going to go play Baltimore because it's such a short week. I mean, that's a that's a really big downside to me in my mind, especially in the gamement. What are you going to get
to four and eight? You know that's and so that to me, there's enough risk involved there where I would be super cautious and pull him completely back or go the other way and say, hey, you know what, we have a shot at this. Joe feels good enough, he wants to play, let's go play, and let's try to get back in this thing. And they kind of the answer for them was in the middle. And I hate the middle. You'd never want to be in the middle. In the middle is usually the wrong place to be.
And I think that's where they're going to end up, because they'll end up with, you know, five or six wins with Joe Burrow playing dumb straight.
And it's how developed down the receiver. So Jamar Chase out with the suspension. He'll be back for Thursday night football. Now t Higgins isn't the concussion protocol. He didn't look good on the sideline when he was sitting on the cart. I'd be shocked if we were a bit back. I don't know. Jose Vask got hurt. That doesn't look good. How good was Mitchell Tinsley?
Though?
Good, really good? And Mitch Tinsley is like he's a real guy. He needs to get more reps. I think that's what we learned yesterday. I know he splashed down the class in the preseason last earlier this year, I'm I'm of the belief now after what he did game on the line, no one had really made a play. He made plays. You need Mitch Tinsley to get more reps,
and I hope he gives them. I really do, because he's he's kind of a matter of fact, no nonsense, work really hard, do what it will with's asked, and when you do throw the ball his way, he's going to do everything. He can't get it. Like I just described the receiver, you want every single receiver to be. Whether his attitude is pulling this to block all of those things. So, yeah, Mitch Tinsley, I would expect him to be part of that Joe Burrow target share on Thursday at Baltimore.
Well, sure as hell, isn't Jermaine Burton an active twelfth consecutive game. You thought they'd elevate you. Is he done in Cincinnati? And if so, what does that say about how the team evaluates how they draft, because that's really the issue here were specially when it comes to the defense.
Oh, it ps me he's done. It tells me he's done. If you can't get on the field and your team is longing to roll with four wide receivers active over activating you, it certainly tells me he's done. And they wished, they wished gay time on this pick. Maybe maybe he catches on somewhere else and it worked. Clearly it hasn't worked here.
James E. Bengals defense has been battered all season. Last couple of games are starting to put it together, and you got to give credit recordits down linebackers, different story, but man at run defense was pretty good yesterday. It wasn't bad, right, unbelievable.
I'm unbelievable to say that the run defense was all right, how about that? Where where was this a month ago? When dancing on the grade and that's what was happening. We just didn't know what.
It's crazy, right, it's crazy. It's crazy how the script flip too, because the defense and now now the offense is the problem.
Got so offensive scored twenty five points in the last two games. You think about it, they had yesterday they had thirteen on offense and uh in last week when they had twelve against the Steelers. I mean they just for all all the people that said the offense wasn't the problem we had nowadays you know it's Uh, it's just this never ending circle of a season where it's offense is at an issue than it is then it's not. Now it's the defense. Now the defense is better, but the offense isn't.
I don't know how that happened.
I don't know a wheel and tell me what happens on Thursday.
And the defensive player's probably given Jamar side Jamar Chase side eye right now for his comments like taking shots at the defense, and it's like, okay, were you a big boy?
Yeah? Wow, yeah, I mean that's something else. It really it's forth mooting the jamar Fitgate loss of him in that potentially costing.
Them that game. I would agree. I'd agree that's going to hang over his head and hopefully, you know, you'll learn from it. And I hate to say that because it sounds so cliche, but he seems like the guy that that would take that to heart and go kay can be unlike Jermaine Burton, different story. I'm not expecting much Thursday night changed. I'm not expecting much even if Joe Burrow does start.
Man, Yeah, it's so tough because I I think I'll just called Joe Burrow in high regard, and I think there's some that you necessarily, but I think there's some people that had forgot what he means and how important he is, and so like, am I going to count Joe Burrow out in Baltimore?
Like?
Hell no? But that that's also why I would have played him against the Patriots. I would have said, hey, Joe, it's a tall task. We're willing to do this if you are, and he would have said, hell yeah, I'm willing to do this five days to try to stay of our season and get us to five and seven. And you know, I think He's going to have that team fired up. They will be fired up. The problem is a Baltimore needs that game too.
Yeah, and Lamar's back too. That's the big one. Lamar's back and he's you know what he can do. So James Rapine over at Bengals Talk dot Com and the Lockdown Bengals Only Daily Bengals podcast, James, all the best, All right, have a great holiday. I know you're on the road for this one, and we'll catch up in a couple of weeks.
You don't trust the Bengals lining actors against Lamar?
Well, I didn't see them, you know, that close against New England. So what do we know?
You know?
I mean, it's the high flying New England Patriots. Drake May looked, it looked like Joe Flacco for most of the first half of the entirety of the first quarter. So who the hell know is what's going to happen? All the best, buddy, Appreciate.
You, Thank God, appreciate you.
All Right, there you go, I've got a holiday weekend coming up and got Thursday night football, Bengals. Have some turkey, have some more turkey. Stuff yourself silly. If the game's terrible, have even more turkey, and just fall asleep. That's how it works. Willie is on the way next on the home of the best Bengals coverage seven hundred w W since now