10-4-25 Donna D. on Saturday Night

All right, it's Saturday night, nine oh seven. It's don A d with my buddy doctor west crafton. Thanks for making the trip from Nashville. Or are you in Kentucky already?

Yeah?

I was in Kentucky. Yeah, at my parents house.

Yeah, Doctor Wes. You've heard them on with Sterling and I. So we're gonna so tonight. I used to do Saturdays. It's been a minute, and we're going to do something a little bit different, which is why I asked you

So that's why I wanted to have you here.

And we're going to get right into it because you know, there's no greater pain or suffering than when you are.

Going through a breakup.

Sure, yeah, right.

Like anybody past the age of sixteen knows what that's like.

Yep.

And if you've ever gone through a divorce after being with someone, let's say nineteen years, and you have kids, then it becomes excruciating sometimes and you're not giving a choice, like for instance, and we know who's in the news Nicole Kidman and her husband Keith Urban.

It's so public too to have.

To have your business being thrown out there, and with two teenage daughters, the heartache of being with somebody for so long and then thinking you are living your life without this person anymore. And this couple really seemed like they were in love for a long time. Sure, I mean nineteen years together is a long time. But you the question that I have for you because you counsel couples all the time, and you've been doing this for how long.

I've been doing it for a little over a decade. Yeah, And so.

Is there are there signs that you can tell whether a couple is going to make it or break it?

Like how do you know? Is it a quick sign? Is it immediate?

Can you tell right off the bat or can you tell through weeks and months of therapy and whether someone's going to try or not.

It's usually through weeks. Something Over the weeks you'll you'll kind of see the pattern that develops. But the signs that I'm looking for would be criticism. The criticism and contempt, contemptuousness. Those are going to be the signs that I'm looking for. So do they believe the best in each other? Do they give each other the benefit of the doubt? Or are they highly critical of each other?

Okay?

Can you tell that right away? When somebody walks into your office and says, okay, here's Tom and Lucy yep, and they start talking, can you tell immediately gestures, actions, thought, you know that kind of stuff.

Yeah, you can tell by body language, how far are they just the where they're on the couch, so I always notice, okay, they're seated very closely together or they're not. I can also tell by, you know, just by the looks on their faces. I can tell by obviously what they say. Do they cut each other off? Or are they looking at each other in the eye. There's a lot of those types of.

Okay, So if I roll is a big deal, that's contempt.

That is.

Yeah.

And so if if you and I are married and we're in your office, a therapist's office, and you start talking and I don't like what you have to say because you've heard it a million times before, and I start rolling my eyes. Does that mean that this couple's probably not going What is the percentage of that couple not making it?

That's probably a pretty high percentage of that couple not making it.

Yeah, okay, what are the signs of a couple that will maybe make it?

What?

What are those?

So those are going to be really I think it's going to be more about couples who do believe the best in each other. They do give each other the benefit of the doubt, and they're really curious about each other's world worldview. We call them love maps. They know each other's love maps really well. They know what makes their partner tick, They know what makes their partner happy. They go out of their way to do things right to make them happy, to feel loved, to feel accepted,

What comensiveness seems like.

Oh man, how can I how can I even get through to this person? Why are they? Why am I all of a sud that's an enemy number one? I mean I I just recently went through a break up myself, and it doesn't get easier as you get older. By the way, that's a news flash here. It's not it's not something that that is going to stop me from falling in love again either, because I mean, I'm a lover,

What's another one?

Criticism? Criticism stone walling?

Stonewall? Okay, what is stonewalling?

Stone walling is when literally it's it's like you are talking to this person and they're they're either looking away from you, they're not responding to you, they are changing the subject on you, they're invalidating you in some way. Okay, it's almost as if you didn't say anything at all.

Oh gosh, So if I'm walk into a room and he never did this, Thank God, because that's awful because if you're walking into a room and you're trying to talk and they're on their phone and they don't even look up, that's stonewalling. Five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand. We really want this to be interactive. The question is have you ever come close to separating or divorcing and decided to stick with it?

Right?

So it's the opposite of what's going on with Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban.

Keith Urban, it looks like he's completely done.

He's already gotten a house, they've they've signed, they've filed, she's filed for divorce and things like that.

How does that happen? I mean, it doesn't look like.

There would be any kind of counseling, or maybe they have because it's so public now and they knew the moment it was going public that people are going to dissect. They're going to go and look at old videos and old interviews, and that's what's happening. Everyone's trying to figure out. Is he, you know, having an affair with his guitarist.

Listen, you guys have some work to do. How honest are you?

I'm very honest. I'll say the relationship that you all have is dead. Wow, it's dead. There's no I mean, so much has happened. Yeah, there's no coming back from it. The question now is do we work to create a new relationship or do I help you all to in this? Well, so.

Who responds to that more the wife or the husband or the you know which partner is is the one that says, all right, I agree with doctor Wes, this is not this is not working.

Yeah, there's usually a leaning out partner. There's usually one partner who is there just to check the box. They're there just to say at least we tried therapy, and so they're the ones that usually feel validated by that. Actually, I find a lot of my couples feel validated when I say that, because if they've already been feeling it anyway, that this relationship is over, but maybe they've been scared to say that just outright say it, so when I say it, but then I give them the hope that

Yeah, it's a lot of work, it can be, but it can be rewarding. Let's go to the phone with Steve. I'm gonna pick this up. Oh Steve, I'm so sorry. I wasn't fast enough. Oh no, here you are. I'm sorry, Steve. Are you there?

Hi?

Seeve from Middletown. Are you there?

Yeah? Yeah, you're right.

Donna Dye and doctor Wes So, have you come close to separating or divorcing your partner and decided to stick with it?

No?

But I listened to this scenario and I'm like, man, are people really that crazy? If somebody is that bad for you.

You don't know that, like six months before, a year before.

Are you in a relationship right now?

Steve thirty years the same moment.

Okay, that is unbelievable.

I never had that thought.

Never had that thought. No, anybody that ever has that thought, like, hey, something might be wrong, you're going the wrong direction.

Well, I agree with you, but like there are there are times like we're going to get more into this too. But if there is a person that's lonely and they want companionship, but they see red flags and they're not quite sure this person is going to be the perfect person for me, but they're good for now, lea.

Leave, leave, just get away.

If it's not perfect, why would you just stick around? It's with anything in life. If it's not perfect, why wouldn't you Why would you stick around the situation you were questionable about in anything, whether you're gambling, drinking, whatever you're doing in life, of it feels like, hey, it might not be right, just walk away.

Early, listen. I mean you must be.

He's the bravest person planet see because no.

I'm honest.

I'm honest, and I know most people aren't honest, but I am. If it's not right, just walk away. Hey, you know, you know, you know, you might pretend and make up scenarios in your mind like oh maybe it was just this, maybe she was just kissing, but she was really underneath whatever. But hey, yeah, you know as a man, as a man, you know, at least I do.

Is he making sense to Yes? Absolutely so.

So. I mean I just feel like it's not that easy to just leave if you if you have kids, Steve.

Well, that's the scenario you have to think about, and you're like, hey, I'm taking them, or I'm going to be a part time to ad, which most people don't want to be because it never works out very good for that person. But that's stuff I never thought about that scenario.

You asked me a question. I wasn't ready for it.

But yeah, it looks that's my job.

No, you did good.

But in your mind, you got to know when you get into something, it's like, hey, it's going to work.

It's not going to work.

You know, most people know, I feel like and stay, pretend and try different things or whatever. And some people live through disasters for children, which turns out bad for the kids.

Obviously.

Most of the time, there.

Is what's the divorce rate right now, doctor Wes, would you say it's over fifty percent? And then they say that there's another twenty percent that are staying together because of money and the kids, so they're not happy. So the race of happy co Yeah, those are the statistics one.

Hundred years from now. Who's going to tie your shoes?

You know what I mean?

Hey, it doesn't matter. You just got to do what makes you good now because we don't have we're all limited on this art, you know that. But just be happy and if you're not happy, just move on quickly because you're wasting your time. Six months a year, Hey, that half your life.

Depending on what's going on.

We never know.

I couldn't agree with you more.

And I love the fact that you're saying this in a thirty year marriage.

So I love that.

Steveey, Oh no, no, Hey, that's the only person I wanted to be with. And if it went south twenty five years ago, twenty eight years ago, six months ago, I don't walk away.

I still will look.

I'm good looking, I can.

Still find Hey, I love it.

I'm okay, I'm happy. I don't want nothing else, and hey, I appreciate you guys.

Show I really enjoyed it.

Thank you.

This is the first night now and you're our first caller, So thanks so much, Steve. I appreciate it. Thanks, have a good night. Oh I hung up on him. So yeah, I agree with Steve. And there's and there's plenty of times where you know that it's wrong. He's right, You know that it's wrong, and you should walk away. There are just sometimes you just are afraid to do that.

It's a trauma bond.

Is that what it is?

A lot of times it's a trauma bond. You have bonded through each of you came with your own wounds and you became each other's savior, each other's validating source, source of validation and affirmation. And whether you know it's bad or not, it's you have to have it.

Well what if you just what if you're you know, because listen, I happen to agree with Steve. There were times where I should have left my marriage. I was married for sixteen years. Happily fourteen two years prior I should have left that relationship and we're still friends. So like everything's good and it ended up the way that it should. But I knew two years prior that this was definitely not working and I need to walk away.

It was sad.

You know, it's hard to break up with somebody. It's hard to let somebody go. It is not easy, especially when you're this why I have so much compassion for Nicole Kidman who seems devastated.

And Keith Urban looks like he's already moving on.

He's got his own house, he's you know, and that's devastating to see.

Sure, so.

You know, we're going to talk about letting go.

But honestly, if it was as easy as Steve made it, and just if you're not happy, then be gone.

It's not that easy.

No, No, some people are able to And I'm not talking about Steve. I'm talking about just generally. I see in my practice that some people can just compartmentalize really well, they can disassociate really well, and they just they just stuff it. They just put it in the closet, stuff it, move on to the next person.

And then the and then you become we'll move on to the next person. So they stuff it. They don't learn that's right. Then they marry this or together with somebody that's exactly like the person they.

Left right right, Yeah, they don't do their own work. And that's that is where you ask about couples that can I tell if they're going to make it or not? I ask are they willing to do their own work? Are they willing to do individual therapy? And if they are, that increases the likelihood of success in couples therapy in my opinion.

And is it usually one out of the two or yeah, because it's usually one that's fighting for it and the other one's like, I'm already done. I'm going here because we've been together for a while, but I've already resigned. And isn't that the case that one of the person, one of the people in the in the partnership has given up before the other one?

M h Yeah.

And if somebody just decides that no, this isn't working for me anymore. After they get to that point, it's hard to come back from that. Yeah, Okay, I mean let's go, Oh, let's go quickly to Mark. I think we're on. Let's grab Mark from Florence real quick.

Mark Hay, how are you You're on? With Donna d and doctor.

Wes Hey, Hello, guys. I just want to say hello there. Hey, I just want to say quickly if I could please that, uh hey that in regards that last caller, Now, hey, he might have been one hundred. He might have he might have done what he said he you know, would do and still be that way. The only thing I want to say to that is I used to criticize my dad for thirty five years. He was always going to leave his wife, but he never did. And I

It's smart, thank you, because I'm like, am I crazy or what?

Because Steve was just saying, you just leave, you just walk away. Is that easy? You're not happy? You go.

Well, I mean for some people maybe, but for most of us it's painful.

Well hey, yeah, no, I'm sorry, go ahead, sir.

I didn't mean to rupt you, No.

No, I was just going to say some people have already morened the loss of their relationship, and they are that they've already gone through the grieving process before they ever decide to leave their relationship. So that could be a possibility.

Okay, Well, that that is.

It's kind of like mourning, something like the death of the death of a relationship. People can go through mourning before the other one even knows what's happening.

That's right.

Yeah, Mark, thanks saying did you wanted to say something? One quick question? We're up against the wall thirty.

Seconds, Yeah, Donna, just real quick if I could. Hey, and it's not only that it is, I mean a couple of one of the women was kind of on the crazy side. I'm thinking, what kind of like, this is not going to be pretty. It's going to be.

It's going to be.

It's going to be so that the disruption. Yeah is so, Hey, guys, go on your show.

Thank you so much, Mark for Colin so Saturday Night. It's Dona D Doctor West. We're coming coming up. We're going to talk about the trust thing. I have a story of what happened with my friend. She lost trust and can you build that trust back in a relationship. Donna D Doctor West. Saturday Night, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati, Saturday Night, Hundreck WLW Donna D with Doctor Wes. So, do you have trust issues because of an X? So?

Yes? So it's criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.

Okay, So, and we talked about it a little bit off air. You think contempt is probably the worst.

Contempt is the biggest predictor of separation or divorce.

And can you describe contempt.

Contempt as where you literally you always it's like having negative sentiment override. You're always thinking negative, You're always expecting the worst in the person. You don't believe in the person. You're you're you're just there they go again that you know they're always that way. Yeah, I roll you, yeah. Yeah, it's it's the it's it's believing the worst in your partner. You've lost your faith in them.

Yeah, And that's a good time to say, I can't be around this person anymore because they don't see the good in me anymore. And stonewalling is awful because if you're going in and you're trying to connect a bid for connection and go in there and you talk to your partner and they don't get off their phone, yep. And maybe you're talking to your husband and you'll say, listen, what you did earlier, I just don't feel connected to you. Can we have a conversation and he ignores you and

Stonewalling is so hurtful because it is a total invalidation of what you're feeling when you're reaching for your partner and they just they just act like they don't hear you, or they change the subject. It completely invalidates your feelings, your thinking right, and it's very destructive for someone in a relationship.

You know, I was married happily for fourteen out of the sixteen years, and my husband and I had a great relationship and it went downhill. When it went downhill,

And he was receptive that day. And why would you think that? No, of course not. I mean, of course I love you.

I would don't even know what you're talking about, don't even know the moment you're No.

I didn't text anybody else but this.

The day after, he thought about it, and he didn't liked being questioned like that, and he was like, this is the kind of stuff that makes me want to run. And they've worked it out, but I thought, isn't that the stuff you need to be saying to your partner and discussing those things five one, three, seven, four nine seven thousand. It's done a D and doctor Wes. We want this to be interactive, so please call. Do you

Yeah?

I think that the reason why uh number one to answer your question. It should be okay to ask, hey, I noticed that you were texting, and I'm just curious. It should be okay to be vulnerable and to say, hey, was that who was that? Right? Yeah? That if you have nothing to hide, why would you be defensive about that?

Right?

So I think that that's a part of building that secure base in a relationship. Right, You have to have security, you have to have a base.

So so, doctor Wes, if you and I were dating, right, and and you said you said that to me, Donna, I feel like you were texting somebody.

Yeah.

I don't want to feel that way, but I do. And I got to get over this. Can you tell me if you were. I'm sorry if this is going to be making you feel weird, but I have to I have to talk this through. And I would say no, I was not no. If I wasn't, no, of course not. And if you said can I see your phone? My answer would be yes, you can see my phone, But I don't know what road that would take us down in this relationship. Now you're asking me, and I'm telling you,

If they say yes, that that you can continue?

If they say yes, I still want to see your phone?

Yeah, I think that that. That's when I'm trying to help couples rebuild trust after an affair. I say complete transparency on the phones.

So anytime somebody wants to feel like, I have autonomy to see what you're doing because you've already you've already broken my trust. And if we're trying to build this, I have to be able to How does that work?

Yeah?

How does it work? Does that trust ever come back fully?

If the person is open and if they are non defensive non So that's the key part is they have to be I have couples do what's called an ownership letter, and they own their behavior. They own exactly what set them up for the infidelity or the affair. And then I say, yes, you have to be completely non defensive. You have wounded your partner. You've got to own that.

So does that mean that does that mean that you should give your passcode to your to your partner?

Yeah? I should.

You should somebody give their passcode anyway? I mean that is that? Is that a must in a relationship? Should I say, oh, yeah, here's my phone, here's my pass code.

I'm with you. I should be trusting you.

Yeah. I think that past codes couples. I have couples that share emails, they look at each other's emails. They yeah, why not? What do you have to hide? Right? I think that that creates security and a secure base in a relationship. Now, there could be some people who say, I, that's an invasion of my privacy and you can negotiate that. You can negotiate it but.

So what if someone says, look, I don't want to have this, She's going to question me on everything, right she if I give her my passcode, she's going to look at things that happened four years ago.

Or so that's an issue that she needs to work on.

Yeah, at that point, what can she do to help herself and work on that? Because obviously there's a trust issue. So what can she do if she wants to stay with this guy and build.

She's got to work on the wounded part of herself and she's got to be able to do some I would recommend individual therapy, yeah, right, to help work on healing that part of her. But she also has to build some inner security, some inner trust that she can depend on herself, that she doesn't have to depend on her partner.

Do you think do you think taking personal responsibility? Because it listen, I might get in trouble for saying this, but I feel this way one hundred percent. It does take two people in a relationship for someone to cheat, because and that may sound terrible, but I feel like happy people don't go and cheat on other people. It's rare, it does happen. It does happen. But if you're happy in a relationship and you're good. Usually people don't stray.

That's right.

So taking personal responsibility, even if you're not the one that cheated, of how the relationship went awry.

That's right.

Is that important? That's very important on both sides. Obviously the one that cheated should you know, obviously get the majority of it.

I think, But like.

I do a relationship autopsy after that's what I call it. Let's look at what happened, and let's look at the vulnerabilities and affairs. Affairs occur because it allows somebody to get back in touch with who they are. Right, it's not usually about the partner that they're cheating with. It's about the experience of how they feel about themselves when they're with that person.

So when right I agree with that.

And when and when there's trust issues and they're trying to build back, what is the percentage of couples that can get through that.

Yeah, it's I don't have an exact percentage, but I would say that it's if I had to guess, it's fit at least with the couples that you Yeah, it's about fifty to fifty. Some some do, some don't. And it's really based on how humility. There has to be humility and there has to be ownership. If I have a couple that if I have somebody that comes in and has cheated and they start giving me all the reasons why they cheated and they feel entitled to the

Yeah.

They're blinded by their needs and they're feeling like they need to validate themselves. If they come in and they have there they're humble and they are willing to do the work, and they're willing to be completely transparent and open with their partner, then I think trust can be rebuilt, but it has to go slow, it has to be consistent, and there's got to be check ins every single day.

You know, I like the check ins, like how you're doing Yeah, I mean am I am i? Am I doing a good job? Or how you know, do you feel more comfortable?

Am I listening? Do you feel heard?

Those types of things, because trust issues are not just about cheating either. They're about like if you've disrespected somebody in public, right and and you don't feel like your partner has your back anymore, It's like, how did I become enemy number one with you?

Why?

Because that's a big trust issue. He doesn't have my back. I think having someone's back in a relationship is really really important.

It's underrated. Where would you score.

That that's very high having someone's back.

Yeah.

Absolutely. That's part of when we talked earlier about what makes successful couple's work, that's exactly part of it is that they have each other's back. They believe the best in each other. They are going to there each other's cheerleader, right right.

And it doesn't mean that you can't argue, and it doesn't mean that you're not going to be frustrated with each other and things like that, but do it in the privacy of your home.

Don't get into an argument.

Hopefully not in front of a group of people and embarrass each other. Yeah, right, Having each other's back is also saying, listen, let's not do this now we're in public. Let's go back and we'll talk about I'm so sorry that you're feeling this way right now.

Or what you're doing by what you just said is you're acknowledging what happened, You're validating the emotion, and you're setting the expectation that we're going to come back and talk about it. Successful couples make it because they navigate what's called the repair attempt. They have a successful repair attempt, they come back to it, they talk about it. The couples that don't make it just sweep it under the rug. They ignore it, but they don't talk about it.

Right, a successful repair attempt, that's right, What does tell me what that looks like?

So to me an example, yeah, so that would be kind of like what you just did. But hey, I want to talk about what happened and when this happened, and using eye language is so important. When when this happened, when this disagreement happened, I felt hurt. I felt hurt because I felt misunderstood. I felt it really hit a raw spot within me, right, I didn't know if you were there for me or not, and I really needed to know that you were there for me in that moment.

Yeah?

Right, yeah, instead of saying you're always talking about me and you know, can we discuss this at home and let's be there for each other. Let's look at each other in the most positive light. I'm giving you the benefit of the now. I know you didn't mean to embarrass me. It happens sometimes, right, Can we talk about like not doing that again because I'm embarrassed or I've had this or that. Man, I wish we could all just be like Steve who has it so easy. Right,

We're talking about the.

Tough stuff on when when you should leave a relationship, and there is a time when you need to say, even if it's you're not planning on getting a divorced, you're just separating yourselves because what you have been doing is not working right. So you just you literally say, I'm changing the situation right now. I don't know what happens to us in a month or two, but for right now, I am getting away from the contempt. I'm getting away from the stone walling. I'm getting away from

Then you have the repair attempt. You got to come back and have the repair attempt, right.

So and so when we come back, we're going to tell a little bit more about this, and then how do you know when you find your soulmate?

And this is really, really good. I'm very excited to talk about that.

Five one, three Sember ninety seven thousand, Dona d Doctor West, Saturday Night on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati. Why we want people to be invested in looking up and knowing how many I mean, look at the stars, look at.

The moon, live at the sun.

It's just absolutely gorgeous, and it reminds us of how small we actually are. And why do we take ourselves so seriously? Yep, I mean seriously, why can't we just be happy and and love our lives. And if we don't love our lives, change it and tell the people that we do love in our lives.

That we love them.

Why is that so hard?

Right?

So, we've been talking about rebuilding trust in a relationship and is that possible? A friend of mine is going through that right now in a relationship. It takes wes, we were talking talking about it. It can't just be one person trying to rebuild trust. It has It takes two to repair a relationship. And and and and if there's somebody that's half heartedly in it, what are the chances that's.

Going to happen? Mm hmm, Now no, it's the chances are very low that that that's going to happen.

Uh.

And so really we're talking about I have a lot of thoughts on this actually, but it's a secure base. You're gonna hear me talk a lot about that about a relationship. To rebuild trust, you have to rebuild your secure base. And that means that means that you can be you can let your guard down, you can breathe a little easier, you can know that you're safe with this person, right, that you've got security. It's that that they've got your back. Like what you've said before, and.

Would you say checking in with your partner multiple times on it's okay?

If you want to talk.

I'm here, I'm you know, I'm I'm going to be down the street, and you know, text me as much as you want. I know, during this time, we need to rebuild this and repair this. I mean why would why would? Because we've talked about this earlier. This will bring this back back for a second, because I think it's important. Why would somebody be half in anyway?

Why?

Why?

If you have all this work to do to repair the relationship, why is it that somebody would say, Okay, I am, I'm going to do it, but I don't think this is going to work.

Fear. Fear, Yeah, I think it's fear.

You know, this relationship stuff. This is why we're talking about it. Five one three seven, four hundred the Big One.

Give us a call. We want to talk to you.

We want to hear about your your trust issues too, because if you have successfully repaired a relationship, please call us and tell us about it, because that's kind of a big deal and the odds of that happening are fairly slim, especially if you've been cheated on or something. But trust issues can go way deeper than at then that as well. Five one three ninety seven thousand. We do have run on but I do want Joe, I want to play this clip. I listened to this guy.

You know when you found the one?

Well, you'll find the right one faster if you say no to the wrong one quicker woo. So you have to get good at saying no at the same time as you're creating opportunities, because opportunities are not just going to bring you more of a chance that you meet the right person. They're also going to bring you more of the wrong people. And you're going to have to get very good at disqualifying people along the way. If the right person for you is number fifteen, it's a

To this person.

But if you can zip through those fourteen a lot faster, you're going to get to fifteen at a completely different rate. So that proactivity and the ability to say no faster two big ones.

If you want to find love faster.

Isn't that amazing?

Right?

So I actually, and Ron, We're going to get to you in just a second. I actually am somebody that knows when I need to get out of a relationship, but don't do it like I've to do it.

That three year thing.

I'm getting better at it. Okay, I'm getting better at it, but that three year thing is a real thing for me. That's why I even played the clip because it hit home. It hit so home to me because I have I don't want to say wasted, because I feel like every relationship is important to me. But I have to get to my fifteen and I still have probably ten more to go, or six at least nine more to go.

And if I'm spending three years.

Finding spending time with somebody who's half in, right, just like the trust issue, if you've broken trust and you say, all right, I still love you, we can repair it. If we're both in and you've got somebody that's halfway in, why am I going to do that to myself? So why is it so hard to let go? We're going to get to the phones real quick. Hey, Ron in Springboro, it's Donnade and doctor West. You're on seven hundred WLW. Thanks for calling in.

What's up hey, great show, very interesting, Thank you. Well, I guess, but in my case, and I guess in a lot of cases, marrying some well, going out with someone been marrying now, and there's a big age difference. Like my ex wife was twelve years younger than me. I didn't get married till late in life. I was thirty six, she was twenty four. First sixteen years was great about age thirty eight for her. She started hanging out with people younger than her.

Oh boy, and that made you a real big difference in age.

Then, yes, we would try to double date and I would have nothing in common with these people, and it was just you know about hitting bled a divorce, and I just wonder how much how many times that plays a factor in the age difference.

That's a good question, doctor West. Do you see that often? I mean, ron, I will tell you this that happened to me. So I was I was just getting divorced and I met this guy. I was thirty nine and he was twenty nine, and I was like, there's no way, there's no way. And then his brother, who was very close to him, was twenty four and his girlfriend was twenty, so the four of us used to I just I

Three years, well I did sixteen, so you know, it's definitely different. You know, people change, and you know, I guess she went through a midlife crisis if there is such a thing.

No, there is one hundred percent a midlife crisis for men and for women. Would you agree with that after worry?

Absolutely?

Yeah, I feel like Ron, And that's a lot of you know, when these guys are on second divorces and they try and go out with younger guys a younger women, I wish they would listen to you, because it's not always hunky dory to be going out with, you know, people that don't you don't have anything in common with, and then they all have friends, they have friends that you have nothing in common with.

Yeah, it's a huge factor, you know. And you know, like they say, you know, when you get married, you marry their family. Well you're also marrying their friends.

Yeah, one percent on you get all the friends. Ron, are you and Nora are We're going to come to you right in one second. Run Are you dating anyone? Now?

Have you picked up the pieces? Where are you at?

I am dating where not what we call wafering girlfriend. She has her place, I have mine. We hang out, we vacation together. But you know, it's it's not a commitment, not like we're out running around with other people.

But.

Taking it slow.

Yeah, I'm in the work now almost nine years. You know, I'm in a hurry, and you know, perfectly happy with this situation.

Sometimes it's nice to be Sometimes it's nice to be in your own home by yourself. You don't, you know, you live alone and then you can just go hang it somebody else's house for a little bit.

Yeah.

We call them away games and she stays here. I go there.

I love it. Ron, Thank you so much for the appreciate it. Let's go to Nora in Cincinnati. Nora, how you doing tonight? All right?

My name is Norma gene con and I wanted to tell you how I met my soulmate. I used to live in the high Rise building and in Westwood and I'm basically impaired, and he was he just lost his site. But we were married six years and then he got sick and real and died. And then when he was six he uh, he would say Nancy things to me, and I would you know, I would forgive him, but you know, I loved him just the same. Like I said,

Well, yeah, I mean, you know what, thanks for the call, Nora, really appreciate it. That is uh, that is hard, you know, as we get older too, that's a reality for all of us. I talked about Jane Goodall today on the you know I was on earlier with Sterling, and you know, she lived in ninety one and she was still traveling. She had all of she was so bright and still smart at ninety one, traveling three hundred days out of

That's right. Yeah, that is very devastating, and it's important that we talk about, you know, how to grieve in that case, and how couples go on, how one member of the couple goes on.

And so that's but it's kind of the same thing as we talked about letting go period, Like, if you have to let go of a relationship, it's like a death. It is, and it can be just as painful. I would rather have you know, cod strapped throat and pink eye then have to deal with heartbreak. Sure, but there's a reason why we go through it, and I feel like it's to get stronger personally. You have to understand that every relationship that you've been in in this life

I think for a lot of people it goes back to the they're meeting a need that they fear can't be met otherwise. They fear it can't be met otherwise, so they hold on to that person so that they can. It's familiarity, too, right. We want to be with people who are familiar and familiar situations.

True, right, Oh my gosh.

If you're familiar, then people are more afraid, even if it's a better scenario. They're afraid of the unknown, even if it's better than what they're already used to. Let's go to John from Miamisburg. John, Hi, it's done a dan, doctor Wes. Have you seen the moon tonight?

It's absolutely gorgeous.

It is really awesome.

But yeah, I was just going to weigh in on the relationship problems with today and I think that social media plays a big part and why relationships don't work out.

Tell me, why tell me why you think because I'm not saying I disagree in any way, shape or form, But why do you think so? John?

I think it goes back to the saying comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah, people don't really appreciate what they have. They're just always comparing what they have on social media to what their friends are doing, you know, and kind of just enjoy them and enjoying the spouse that they have. They're comparing, you know, all this guy makes more money, or this lady looks prettier. You know, it's it's just my personal opinion.

No, I mean, I.

Literally Wes and I talked about that quote right before we got on air. Comparison is that the thief of joy or thief of contentment? It is a very big problem on social media when you're looking at friends on Facebook, Instagram, everybody looks like they're having the best time. Everybody looks like everyone's enjoying yours and you're sitting at home scrolling, and then you start comparing, why didn't they why didn't they ask me to go out? Why don't have a boyfriend?

What?

What do get all social media or John, you tell me.

To me again, I'm I've been married to lind years. My my take on it is is I'm very competitive, and so is my wife. We were both college athletes. We met down in Kentucky. But we try to compete with how much we serve each other. And that really, I think is unheard of nowadays because it's all about me, me and me. What can you do for me?

But just for us.

How we make our marriage work is because we got kids too, So we look on social media too and we see other people, you know what, they're kids that did me and stuff. But you know, we we go to King's Island here, like our kid when we make it three hours before, they have meltdowns. So we see all these pictures, you know, people posting, you know, all smiley faces, but they don't see the meltdowns before, you know, like getting there and getting out of there.

So that's just can you can you.

Tell me that? Because I think that's a great question to ask ask the callers. Next you tell me that quote where you say you serve each other?

Can you reiterate we.

Compete with how much we serve each other.

So I try to outserve her, and she tries to outserve me. So it's, you know, instead of like what can you do for me? What can what can I do for her? It's, you know, we just try to compete with serve and serving each other.

I mean, is there a better I'm not sure I've heard of anything better than that tonight, I honest to goodness. We compete with how we serve each other, how well we serve each other.

Like, sweetheart, do you want a cup of coffee? I got you.

Sit down, You've been working all day. Let me, let me get your water, Let me get you whatever you need. Do you want me to go to the store. Do you want me to pick something up? Do you want me to take the kids out for an hour? Is that what you're talking about?

John, right exactly. And we're both instuce. We put God first, and we had the mentality the closer we grow to God, the closer we'll go to each other. So let's just try to have a.

How important is faith doctor Wes. It's very relationships very important. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, they're this the spirituality component, uh it. It gives you a guide, especially in the Christian faith, that gives you a guide. Yeah, I mean that, John, John, that's such a great call and I really appreciate it. I couldn't agree with you more on the social media and what a lovely gesture that you and your wife have. How long have you been married?

We've been married eleven years. And again it's it's not easy, you know, it's it's tough. But again when when you find the right person and.

You love them.

So yeah, I love it.

Thank you so much for the call, John, These calls have been so great tonight and I really appreciate it. It's don a Dean doctor wes uh Saturday night. We do want you to be interactive with us five one three seven four ninety seven thousand, one eight hundred. The big one it is, I mean to this segment with how to serve one another? And compete with that who's gonna get better at like giving?

Right?

And he's like, I don't think couples think about that anymore, but that is a big deal. It is how can we compete with making you? How can I make you happier? Like I'm winning. I'm winning at making you happy?

Right?

Is there anything better than that?

Right?

When we come back, we're going to talk more about that, and also with the because he did mention a quote we were talking about. Comparison is the thief of joy, kid, the thief of contentment, the thief of happiness. Have you ever lost a relationship through comparison? And I've got a pretty interesting story about that. Five one three seven, nine seven thousand, Dona D. Doctor Wes on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati. Wow, all the time is flying by. It's already twenty to eleven.

It's crazy.

Donna D and doctor Wes licensed Family marriage therapist added to see, you're my buddy. We've known each other for a long long time and I always ask you to come on with Sterling and I and tonight we're doing something different. We have a little bit of a relationship show going on. We do want this to be very interactive. Five one three, seven four nine hundred the Big One. We do have so many great calls tonight and I

And we just talked who was it. Who did we talk to?

Oh?

John, who was such a great caller, and he gave the quote where Wes and I talked about this earlier. Comparison is the thief of joy and the thief of contentment when you're comparing your relationship or your partner with somebody else. I mean, at no time, like like the present has it been easier for people to jump on social media or jump on a dating app and make it completely.

Impossible. Sometimes if you're feeling a.

Little bored in your relationship or I mean you're annoyed with your you know you're going you're annoyed with your spouse two weeks, three weeks in a row, and you go on social media and you see someone you like and you message them. Right, the grass is greener on the other side, and it can be hard. How detrimental can it be? And John was talking about this about

It's detrimental with that to the relationship. How hard is it though, I mean it's it's easy. Maybe that wasn't the right question, and I think I threw you off on that.

Yeah, hard is it to maintain a relationship and be monogamous when there's a million dating apps and social media? If you feel like it's not going the right way, sure, it's it's really challenging. I think that, Uh, to be quite, you know, it's it's the grass is always greener. On the other side, it's a dopamine hit, right, We're always looking for something new. Novelty is very important in a relationship.

Right.

And I do feel like as you get older, you you you really can let some of that stuff go, like let us slide.

What's the big deal if.

He's chewing loud or he didn't put the pans in the dishwasher right right, it's.

A little And this may be controversial, I don't know, but it's I think people can become lazy in relationships and they don't want to do the work. They don't want to do the work, so they just want to go to a dating app and they want to get you know, their needs met there, so instead of addressing it with their partner and having those hard conversations, they even have.

Those, you know, on Instagram. As I'm talking about social media. On Instagram, they'll have this guy walk up to a couple, how long have you been dating? Oh?

About four years? You're happy? Yeah, I'm happy.

And then he goes, can you see let me see your phone and see if one of you is on a dating app, and the guy will go sure. Usually it's the girl that's on the dating app. It's crazy. I mean nine out of ten times it's the girl that's on the dating app, and she'll.

Say, no, I don't want to do it.

I don't know if any of this stuff is made up, but it seems real and it seems like, Wow, somebody just got hurt, right, somebody just got broken in front of while somebody's filming.

And the guy is always just.

Like, how could you do this?

Why this is you?

She's like, it's not me. How could you do this to me?

But why is she on the dating app? Why is she on there?

Because she can be she has other opportunities. Yeah, it's terrible, but it's it's because she's Is she getting her needs met? Does she communicate what her needs are? Does the couple really talk about that? A lot of couples I work with they don't talk about what they really need.

That's because they get comfortable. She loves me, I love her.

Let's just sit on the couch and order do or dash, right, I mean, is there a way that you can you can say.

Look, I'm gonna get on it.

I mean, just be honest about it. I'm gonna get on a dating app if you don't hang out with me and go out with my friends and let's plan a trip or let's go see a movie or something. Let's get out of the house. Let's go to Bill from Coleraine Township way in here five and three four ninety seven thousand. We do want to hear from you. Bill, thanks for calling. You're on with Donnade and doctor Wes. What's going on?

Good evening, Hi, Hi. I'm in a situation to where I have lukemia diagnosed five years ago and I was in Florida with my wife. She had a granddaughter from along, which is my step granddaughter, who I absolutely love dearly. She's six years old. I can't get anywhere in this relationship. My wife is an alcoholic, just got a lot of things going on, and I'm to the point where I don't know what the hell.

To do next.

How long have you been with her, Bill.

We've been married thirteen years.

And then have you tried talking to her and saying, listen, I'm at my WIT's end.

I have told her I'm at my wits end, even threatened to walk out. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It just absolutely doesn't matter.

She does she not? Does she not respond? How does she respond to that?

I don't know if she does respond, other than she'll go over her daughter's house, which that's a whole other issue. And She'll stay Friday night, Saturday night, come home Sunday with a step granddaughter, her granddaughter, and I'm just I'm beside myself.

I can tell I can, I can hear it, and and and oftentimes Bill, if you've been if you've been doing it for a while with her, you can make yourself sick. And I know that you've got lukie or I'm so sorry that you're going through that. And but behavior is a language, right doctor Wes. If he's reaching out and saying, I'm I am having a hard time connecting with you, and I am I'm I'm at the point where I am done, And she doesn't care.

It sounds like stonewalling.

It does sound like stonewalling from from her on on her end, right, Yeah, she she walks out, she goes away, leaves him to his thoughts, comes back on Sunday, and then there's then she just what Bill stays in the house and you guys don't address it again.

Yeah, basically Monday through Friday, she's working. I have a part time job. It's it's just I don't I said.

At this point, I'm sorry, I can hear it.

Other than walking out and I'm living a six year old who like dear we love we are raised in just six year old because of her daughter, her act together.

Wes.

What do you think he should do?

Bill? Bill, thank you so much for the call. We really appreciate it. What what do you think Bill should do?

You know?

I think have you tried couple's therapy or is that not an option?

I have not.

Have not?

Do you think she would be would she be willing to try it?

Bill?

I don't.

I can't answer that straight forward or other. I don't know if she would or not. I don't know.

If you said for the health of our six year old that we're taking care of, can we go and speak to somebody because you're your drinking is out of control. I'm getting sicker by the moment and we're looking after this this little girl who needs us. Can we be some sort of role models for this little girl and both try Can you talk to her like that? Bill?

I guess I could.

You got to go for it because at this point you have nothing else to lose.

So instead of like it maybe not threatening, maybe take the positive root.

We talked about that earlier.

Docus right, So if he goes in a positive room, listen, we still have things we can fight for, and it's including this six year old little girl.

I'm willing to fight for this relationship.

Are you right?

And get your answer, and if she says no or anything other than yes, then I would suggest you go get counseling for yourself and do whatever you can for your six that six year old little girl.

That's my advice. Thank you, Bill, Thank you so much.

I'm gonna send you so much energy, positive energy, and good luck. I mean, this happens all the time, wes. When when there's somebody that cares and wants to work on the relationship and the other one is just like why why is why is his wife still in this?

Why is she there? And we don't know both sides of the story.

We don't, we don't, but it's it's I'm suspicious of attachment injuries or attachment wounds, So that would be I'm really curious, and I'd be asking her on her end, what happened in this relationship that caused you to disconnect from your partner and then turn towards Was it the daughter that she turns towards, turns towards other family members to get emotional needs met yeah, right, or just to get space from him.

It sounds like, you know, maybe he's not saying it the right way, but you can tell, we can tell just by talking to him for a moment that he's at his WIT's end.

Well, he's hurting, he's deeply hurting, right, and he's at it. Yeah, you're right, he's at his what ends too? And and so and meanwhile it sounds like she's stonewalling and and that's totally invalidating and hurting him even more. Right, So he's stuck in he's stuck in this pattern. It's a pursue withdraw pattern perhaps, right, where the more he pursues,

What can he say?

I mean, I mean, you can try the positive route. We've got this six year old that we've been left to take care of. She needs us, and that could be some motivation if you can put it that way. But what can he say to her that will snap her out of it?

I think validating her emotions, so so asking open ended questions. I'm curious, you know, I've noticed that you you know you you leave and you retreat and you go to other family members. I'm wondering, what's happening for you in our really between the two of us, that causes you to do that, What's happening for you? What are you feeling at your core? Those types of open ended questions and then listening and then echoing back what she said,

No, But the pain that I heard in that guy Bill's voice, our caller, I mean, I'm reminded of this time I went to this church in San Francisco.

It was a long long time ago.

It was called the Glide Church, and there was a visiting pastor and he he he was talking about learning life's lessons and he said, he said, if I want to learn something, don't sit me next to a scholar that's been you know, go in school for fifteen twenty years. Sit me next to somebody who's loved and lost, and I'm gonna learn something. That guy had pain. He had pain. I could feel it in his heart, was in his throat talking about it, and he once, this is it.

Just happens all the time.

She's shut down.

She is shut down, and he doesn't know how to connect with her. It's almost like, do you remember And this is so cliche, but The Office is one of my favorite sitcoms, and it was when when Pam and Jim were really disconnected and she said goodbye and he was going to leave, and then he turned around and hugged her and hugged her for a long time and just wrapped his arms around her and gave her the biggest tut until she melted. And it feels like it

Right, she needs That's right, she needs.

Some of us just need that long hug to say I love you instead of putting up my guard all the time with you.

Whatever. Bill's done.

He's probably done stuff too, but I mean he's he's they've been going back and forth and she's put a guard up and now she's like it's armor.

Yeah, there's an attachment injury, an attachment wound, and until that wound has been identified and talked through, I think this pattern continues.

And so the best way to get to that point, the best way to get to that that open wound, is to say what have I done or what are you feeling?

What do you need from me?

I'll open tell me And you can't be defensive, and you can't. You have to literally sit back and listen if you care, if you care, what is what? Couples need to hear this so bad. Not even just couples. I'm talking about sisters, mothers, brothers, friends. If you are offended, if you get offended when you are talking to somebody that you love, the conversation ends.

Absolutely.

You literally cannot go any further. If you were like, what did you mean by that?

It's you. You can't do you language. You have to use eye language, right.

But Wes, if I were to say to you, if we were talking and we were in a little bit of an argument, if I were to say, you know what, every time I hear that tone in your voice, I absolutely cringe.

Yeah, I'm done, I'm done, I'm checked out of the conversation.

That's it, right, But what if what if you were to say in response to me?

What if you were to say, I understand your hurt Yep, I'm trying not to take that personally, Ken. Is there a way that we can talk to each other that I can I want to listen to you. Can you speak to me in a way that I can hear you without this huge defensive wall that's going to come up the second you say my voice makes you want to cringe because that hurts. And if you're trying to hurt me, you just did. And I want us to get through this, right. That's not getting offended right now.

It's a harsh startup versus a soft startup is what you're talking about there, Yes, a soft startup is using a softer language, lowering the voice right, and remembering that we're on a team. We're on a team. I love you, I care for you. I'm really concerned about our disconnection here and I really want to get to understand what's happening for you right now, because you.

Know when your partner is out of whack, you know when they're pissed, and you know when they need space, so help them along with that.

I get it you're upset. I get it.

I'm upset too. I'm gonna try and be the voice of reason and talk. So let it. I want you to let it out, but please use your words. Don't be so harsh and cutting. Just try your best to help me listen to you so that we can work through this.

It's the problem.

It's not us we're it's us against the problem, not us against us.

That's right.

Oh my gosh, I can talk this stuff all night long. And Wes, it's already ten fifty five, it's almost to the top of the hour. It's don A d Doctor Wes Saturday night coming up. There are some really good green flags in a relationship. We have three really critical, healthy green flags that if you have this going on in your relationship, you're doing good and we want to hear from you. So five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand when we get back, what is the best

Look up at the moon. Look up at the moon and know how small we are.

Look at the stars. I mean, it's a big, beautiful moon. And it's so nice to be reminded and be humbled that it's not all about us, us, us, me me, me, me, me right. It's there's a big, beautiful universe out there and we are just a tiny tiny bit of it. So we've been talking about relationships. This is kind of a different show and on seven hundred I'm super happy to be talking about it and I can talk about this forever. I'm so happy to have my partner, doctor Wes,

It's yeah, yeah.

I mean.

Used to be a program director for Kiss FM and Dayton and that's how we knew each other. I was so program director for KISSFM here in Cincinnati. We've been in radio for a long long time. You went a little bit of a different route and you went and got your doctorate, your licensed marriage family therapist in the state of Tennessee. And we have you on quite a bit on the show because we want to help sort

That's the most part.

Yes, Yes, emotional regulation absolutely.

So Esther Perez, we both really like her has a quote the quality of your life is determined by the quality of your relationships. So how deep are your relationships, how much? How much can you share and how much can you listen to your partner?

Right?

How honest? How important is honesty in a relationship with.

Oh, it's it's the deal. It's either you have it or you don't. It's a deal breaker. If you don't have it.

I mean, like, how honest should you be?

All right, let's just say you've been married for fifteen years and you're still attracted to your husband or wife. No, but you say, you know what, sweetheart, you really need to maybe get a little bit healthier. You've been eating a little bad. You need to get to the gym. And if somebody, if you can't say that to your person and they get offended, how likely are you going to be able to say you hurt my feelings when you were talking bad about me at dinner the other night in front of our friends.

Right, Yeah, you have to lead with emotions. I think if I was going to have that conversation, I would say, you know, I love you and I care deeply for you, right, And because I love you so deeply, i'm you know, I just was curious what you are thinking, or I wouldn't say that I'm curious what your thoughts might be about your health right now?

Right?

And instead it comes out with like all you do is wear these baggy sweatpants all the time, and I wish you would dress up a little bit.

For me so that you can be attracted.

That's a harsh startup. That's a harsh startup. Yeah, but sometimes we talk to each other that way.

Yeah, and that is hurtful, and that is a cut that it will just keep adding up.

Is it realistic when you live with somebody and you've got kids, and you've got dogs and cats and whatever to say I'm curious to see if your regards and your health. I mean, that is the nicest possible way to say it. But is it realistic to be able to do that? So, I mean, how do we get ourselves? How do we get ourselves to better communication instead of going from you look like a slob? Or how what are the steps we can take to getting to the

Well, I think you have empathy. You have to have empathy before you speak. You have to you have to put yourself in their shoes. How are they going to feel if I say this to them? And so many couples because life is moving so fast, they lose empathy. They flip their lid. They flip their lid, and that's where like they're I don't want to go into too much of the science of it, but essentially the part of the brain that helps regulate their emotions goes offline.

They just tint because they feel attacked.

Yeah, because they feel attacked or they feel afraid, they feel like they're partner's not taking care of themselves to use that example, right, And and they're feeling fear, they get angry about it and they just they just mouth off about it.

Right.

So, and and it's funny that you said empathy because we were getting into the three green flags to a critical healthy relationship. There are three things that you can do. I was listening to Mel Robbins podcast, which I think she's she's great and she's got a new book out called That Let Them, but her podcast is exceptional.

I really do agree.

But she she has three green flags she says that are critical to a healthy relationship.

The first thing is growth. You have to be willing to grow with your partner.

Because if I want to get stronger, and I want to get more emotional awareness and more emotional regulation, and I want to be a better partner, if I don't have somebody that's going to grow with me, how is that going to work? Yeah, So, that's kind of a big deal. So that's green flag if you both are

That's a absolutely and it needs to be grounded in friendship too and admiration for each other.

Right right. And the third thing where you said empathy is compassion, So it's growth.

You got to grow together. You have to be kind to one another instead of angry and mean. I mean you're like we both can understand, like the difference between somebody that is angry all the time or that is somebody kind. That is an enormous difference. There's like a mountain of difference between those. And if somebody's angry all the time, then it's really really hard to get along with somebody like that.

If they're angry, they're emotionally constipated. It's what I say, Okay, what does what does that mean?

They stuff everything?

They stuff everything underneath. Anger is a secondary emotion. It's not the first thing that you feel. You feel fear, hurt, sadness, guilt, shame. There's a primary emotion that you are feeling underneath the anger, but you don't show it. You show the anger.

So behind deep anger right, first of all, five one, three, seven, four, nine hundred the big and we want you to call us.

We want this to be a very interactive show.

We are going to be doing this on most Saturdays, so please feel free to call in. We want to know what is working for you. What are the green flags in your relationship? What I mean, tell us what at least one thing that you have going on in your life and in your relationship that you're doing right. We've talked a lot about you know how people can mess it up. We really want to end on a positive note on how people are doing doing well in their relationship. Is it the kindness? Do you make an

What was John said?

He competes he the way that he competes with his wife is that they compete on how much they serve each other, which I loved.

So the third thing is compassion.

So it's growth, kindness and compassion, stepping out of your own perspective. What you've been saying all night, West, you got to give You got to be able to get out of your head and look at your partners and where they coming from in this situation, especially in an argument.

Yeah, especially especially in an argument.

And if you don't have compassion, what is the opposite of compassion?

What do I think?

That's fear? In my opinion?

Yeah, so, so fear and compassion would be resentment. Wouldn't resentment be uh uh the opposite of that? Let's go to Zach and Hamilton. Hey, Zach, you're on with Donna, Dee and doctor West. Thanks for Colin. Are you having a good Saturday night.

Oh absolutely, Uh, just got done fishing, got done cleaning the fish, and I'm heading home.

Now.

How is your guys night going.

It's beautiful.

It's our first night together on air, and we're talking about relationships because we feel like it's a really, really important subject and we're talking about you know, what are you doing that's working.

Are you in a relationship right now?

Zach? Yeah, And that's why I wanted to call in because I found it it's an interesting subject and I think my side would be a little.

Bit different than others. But I just turned twenty.

Eight and my soon to be Beyonce is twenty six. By the turn twenty seven. We had our first baby on December thirty, first baby girl, and so with that we're obviously younger, and it wasn't as planned as it could have been. So with work and everything. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to drag this one, but with work and everything with both of us and taking care of the baby. We just bought a new house and everything. I think one of the main things is is being truthful with each other and.

Being if there's.

Something wrong, talk about it, you know. That's that's one of the main things is I have bad anxiety and she's always tried to pull things out of me. Us men don't like talking about things, but she's tried to pull it out of me. The main thing in a relationship is is what I want to say is have communication. Don't be scared to talk to your spouse about anything, because if you can't talk to him or her about anything that's going on in life, then you guys will never be one hundred percent of team.

So Zach, I appreciate this because you are young. Twenty seven is young, and congratulations having a baby.

There there their life.

Changing, life changing little little creatures that come into our lives and it makes a relationship more beautiful and more strong, but also more difficult. And the more that you communicate with your with your fiance and soon to be wife, the better that's going to be.

And that's better.

The better it's going to be too for the for the baby as well, because they're gonna you're gonna be.

A good role model. But do you feel like.

Do you feel like as you're because you got a lot going on, You have a new baby, you have a fiance, so you're gonna get married, You've got a new wife. Is there pressure is Do you feel like there's a lot of pressure on your young little life right now?

Well, that's a good question. If I were to talk to anyone else really older than me, I'd to say, let's let's just say.

A range fifty sixties.

If I were to talk to someone to say I was stressed out, I think that would understand in a way.

But those are the people those age I.

Think that you know, they handed a horder or whatever.

But yeah, I mean it's it's hard.

I'm in the iron workers Union. We stayed pretty busy around here in the Try State area. But the most stressful thing is is being this young and not really playing on having a baby.

Like I said, m h.

The only thing that's got us through everything is communication. And I'll come home from work, i might have a bad day and I'll try to not hide it, but I'm not going to talk about it just because I don't want to bring work home with me. But she'll catch me sometimes and to be like, I know something's wrong, because that's gonna better.

Us, like we we gotta do something about this.

That's definitely He pulled me out of that.

Little hole I was in.

And once we had that.

Baby, baby girl, god lover. I mean, it's.

It brought me and m Kennie. I just want to say some of that new parents out there, don't don't be scared.

There's not a there's not a rule. Look for it out there.

No no one can teach you.

How to be a parent.

Just love, love your partner, spouse, whatever it may be. Just from my perspective, communicate, communication, main thing.

That's exactly right, Zach. Thanks so much for the call, and good luck with everything. You got a lot going on, but it sounds like you have a really good head on your shoulder. And I love that your fiance pulled you out of that hole. That's what partners do.

That's exactly right.

Thank you, Zach, Thanks so.

Much, Thank you guys, have a good night.

Thanks for having me.

Appreciate you so so. Doctor West. Everything was right about that. It doesn't matter what's going on externally, if you've got somebody that's got your back, especially when you're going when you're down, that's right. When you're down, that's when you need somebody to help more than anything. There you're gonna there's nobody that doesn't have down moments, but to have somebody say, let's talk about it. I'm gonna sit here. I don't care how busy it is, I don't care

They prioritized each other, is what they did. And I see in my practice problems come up when people lose the husband and wife, the relationship. They lose that, they go towards being parents and they focus one hundred percent on the parent parental role, or they'll focus one hundred percent on their work role and they'll lose that relationship as partners. So I love the fact they prioritize that. And it sounds like his fiance was intentional about that conversation.

Well, I think that what I heard him say too, is she knew, she knows, she recognized, she recognized that he was down, yep, and she cared and yep to say let's talk about it.

And that's empathy.

She used empathy, compassion, She wanted him to let it out and grow.

She was working with him.

And I do feel like couples ebb and flow a lot of times you can get back to that. Bring kindness, bring empathy, bring compassion, and couples can revive their relationship. There are times where everyone goes through tough times, whether your mother, daughter, brother, sister, sister and sister, and any good relationship, you're going to go through some downs and then that's when you really show up. That's right, yep, and I just I love that call so much. All Right,

It's don A. D and Doctor West on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.

Ooh, it has been a fun night, Saturday night. It's all about relationships. It's gonna be a nice night though. I gotta tell you, it's a cool night fifty seven and then it's going to warm up for the game day tomorrow eighty four degrees. So we were talking about relationships. Let's get to Pat because he's been on hold for a while. Pat, thanks for holding for so long. It's done a d with doctor wes Uh.

We've been talking about relationships, the good, the good, the bad, and the ugly. What what do you have to contribute?

Well, I've been seated in the ugly.

We all, anybody, anybody over twenty one has really had their fair share.

Yeah, I just wanted to contribute. Maybe next week you could talk about because it's a big technical subject. But what happens if you find out that your mate is bipolar? And then when that happens, you know, you encourage her to it was a you know lady I was with, and encourage her to get help and everything, and then I don't know, the prescription drugs and a little bit of alcohol and then she just goes on her own

I guess you know what I mean that that is a tough I've never I've never experienced someone with bipolar. I mean I've experienced people with very very heavy emotions.

Wes.

What would you say to Pat who is dealing with somebody that has bipolar and prescription meds and then a little bit of alcohol.

That's a tough mix. Yeah, especially the alcohol. The So I would if that were my clients, I would want both both Pat and the and the partner to come in for therapy together so that we can learn how to work through that because the moods, the mood and state, the mood swings, the ups and the downs can create a lot of emotional instability in the partner too, in Pat as well.

So, Pat, have you ever gone to counseling?

Oh?

Yeah, I mean it's down over with now, But I mean I tried. I went, you know, the court, you know they want to head and assigned people when matistreet or whatever they had down there.

So I went all through it.

But I mean, you know, I'm just pointing out for other people because you never know, if you know, take time to get to know somebody. You don't want to rest in anything.

Yeah, that's good advice because even even if you're thinking about maybe the one of the most public figures that was bipolar and and in a public relationship would be Kanye West and Kim Kardashian and he would fly off the handle and they had four kids, ended up, you know, divorced, and he freely admits that he has bipolar and has issues with that, and when he doesn't take his meds, he gets uh, it goes deeper. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that that is a good subject to touch on.

And doctor Wes you you're familiar with this, sure, and that's why it has to be a family intervention. But the person who the person with the bipolar disorder has to be willing to take their medicine to be consistent and and to really you know, work through it.

So that also in my situation, there was no communications. He didn't want to talk so right, right, and I try to I try to write her and then to get more frustrated with that. Yeah, and so it was just a mess.

Yeah.

Well, I mean I just I've been through it. I just don't want to see anybody anybody else can in the situation like that.

That's exactly what we're talking about. That's why we're doing this show. Pat, thank you so much for calling in. Really appreciate it, and thanks for holding.

For so long, you know, Okay, you're welcome.

Thank you so much. So there's so many different aspects to relationships. And I have been you know, I've never I've never had to deal with the mental issues, you know, for very long, and I don't I don't know how I would imagine, as Pat was saying, it's almost impossible to deal with it, especially if you don't communicate, and then there's alcohol and pills and stuff and right too, Now, how do you get through that?

I mean, yeah, well it's going to have to How you get through it is is the person again with the bipolar disorder, has to take ownership, and they have to be responsible, and they have to work the plan. They need to have individual therapy and and be on their medication. But the problem is is that a lot of people with bipolar disorder, they start feeling better and so they stop taking their medication, right, and then it's just a vicious cycle.

And then they comes out of the blue, right and like all of a sudden, this person ATTACKSI, their partner, right, stuff like that.

Family therapy so hard couples and family therapy is a very important intervention when you're dealing with bipolar disorder and serious mental illness.

And then you have kids, and then the kids are you know, involved in that as well. It's it's a tough situation. We will touch on that a little bit more. So we're ending the show because we've had some real positive calls today and we've talked about, like, you know, what are the what are the three green flags that

So I asked them that suppose that they went to sleep tonight and a miracle happens, and there they're asleep. They don't know that the miracles happened. But a miracle happens, and the relationship problems that brought them in just dissipate. And so they wake up tomorrow morning, and what is the very first thing they noticed that will let them know something's different in their relationship, is what I asked them.

So they go to bed and they suggest that, hey, a miracle, a miracles is happening.

Is happening.

It's happened, but they are asleep, so they don't know it. So the morning they wake up and they sell and I want them to be very specific about what is it that's different. I've had couples say things like, my partner will look at me and give me a kiss and say good morning instead of getting on their phone.

Oh that's a good one, right.

I've had a couple say that my partner would go down and start and you know, and make me a cup of coffee and bring it up to me in bed.

Right.

So, So what it does is I ask each of them that and it creates a miracle day, and then I will have them the assignment is, Okay, over the next week, one of you, both of you, at certain points, do something out of that miracle day for your partner.

Okay. So it could be.

Making dinner and having it ready and like a romantic table setup and and that would be a miracle if you haven't had that in a while. That's right, right, I love it. So you're focusing on something that, Wow, I can't believe.

You did this for me.

Yeah, kind of a moment. Yeah, okay, And so all right, so that's one. So miracle day day one. What's another one?

I have them keep a record for me of of times that they have have caught their partner doing something right. Ooh, I love that, and then bring that record back into the session the next week so that we can talk about it.

Okay.

So, so catch your partner doing something right, definitely flipping the It's almost like a gratitude journal. Instead, it's like, instead of looking at what's negative, you train your brain that's right to look at something that they did right.

Wow, what a gift?

Yeah?

Does that work?

It does work.

So you have them report back to you on catching your partner doing doing something right. What are some of the things that they say.

They'll tell me that that they caught their partner giving them a hug, they caught their partner, you know, saying I love you. They call their partner just little thing things, not little things, big things.

Yeah, small things add up to big things, right. I always say that, you know, foreplate lasts all day long. It's how you treat somebody throughout the day. So you can't be mean to somebody and then expect magic in the bedroom or a miracle in the bedroom. Right, You really have to be consistent with you know, even just walking by and putting your hand.

On her back, that's right, That would be catching your partner doing something right, because that communicates fond, fondness, right, admiration, love, all of the positive?

Is it mostly when in the beginning, when when couples do this, is it well, he took out the trash and I didn't have to tell him.

Is it kind of like that?

Or is that can be? That can be sure? That can be a miracle, right for some people.

I would hope that that if somebody looked and caught caught me doing something, it would be nicer than that.

Yeah, but I expectations, right right.

Okay, so miracle day.

And then catch your partner doing something right, write it down and report back to.

You, right, And then what's the third thing?

And then I assigned them to do the high low check in. So this is the highlight of their day. This is at the end of the day after and it needs to be you know, all the distractions, all the phones, all the devices are set aside, it's just there. So they meet up, they meet up, they talk face to face and they say, this was the highlight of my day, and this was the low point of my day.

And does it have anything to do with them or is it specifically what happened in their day?

Just what happened in their day.

Okay.

So the highlight of my day was I did really great presentation at work and I felt good about myself, yes, right, yes.

And and the low part of the day was I.

Didn't work out. Yeah, I didn't have time to work out, and I feel like I missed that right, something like that, right exactly.

And what it's doing is it's it's putting you in touch with it's it's it's vulnerability, it's forcing you to be vulnerable with each other.

Oh yeah, you and look at it that way.

And then it's also giving you a chance to empathize with each other, okay, right, And it's given you a chance to ask, how can I help make your day? How can I help support you?

Yeah?

Right, especially during the low point? What is it that you need? What can I do right now to help support.

I love that.

I love that because you know, even when I say, even when I was saying the low part of my day kind of felt like, oh man, that I really have to address that. And it does make me feel like, oh I had a low part of my day. And then if you say it out loud, maybe your partner cares.

Yeah right.

I love that. Okay. So how effective is this for the couples that do do it well?

It's very effective because if they do it consistently, then it gets them in a pattern of checking in with each other emotionally. That's really the key. It's an emotional intervention. It's really getting them to talk and to be vulnerable and to share and to get out of the day to day hustle and bustle to.

Bring it back to their relationship, to bring it back to focus on.

Okay, we have.

Kids, we have work, we have dogs with the house, we have some lah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Everybody has all that, right.

They're looking at each other too, They're not. I can't tell you how many people report to me that I say, what does the evening look like for you?

All?

It's people on the couch on their phones. Couples, couples are They'll say, yeah, we're sitting next to each other, but we're not looking at each other. We're facing forward and we're facing down looking at our phones.

See listen, I'm one of these people that you know have an addiction to my friend.

I don't know. I'm not addicted to a lot of things. My phone is one of them.

It's terrible, it is absolutely terrible. But when I am with somebody, I put my phone down, right. I mean, even you and I have been face to face talking for the last three hours. It is it's it's we're blessed by these phones, but it's also a curse, and it is a curse for our relationships too. There are people that I know that that their their sons and Mason, mainly the sons don't know how to talk to women.

They don't know how to ask for a date.

They don't know how to go out because it's it's it's it's phone, it's cell phones, it's it's social media, is gaming, and it's all computerized, and they don't go out and they don't know how to communicate with real people in the real world. That's right, and even couples,

So in those days were so nice.

I mean they were, and I love my phone, but it's it's nice to not have this electric box in my you know, in my hand all the time and looking at it.

It does it is can be a relationship killer.

And texting. Texting is also I think can be a relationship killer when you're texting your friends, you're texting people, and you're not talking to your partner right.

Yes, your fantasy football league right scores or you know, I have I have several group texts with my sisters, with my friends, and sometimes I'm like, holy smokes, yeah, pictures of all my nieces, nephews and their grandkids, the grandkids.

You know, it's non stop and yeah, that can. That can get to be a lot.

And you can lose the emotional content through texting because you can't you don't have the the you know, the cues, the vote, the verbal cues, the in person right.

The nonverbals, yeah, the non verbal Yeah, I can. That's a very good point. So I have one more questions. We're almost out of time. We just have a couple more minutes. And this has been so great, Wes, thank you so much for coming. And you know, our next one, our next Saturday is going to be October twenty fifth, or whatever the time is.

On that.

There was a question that I thought was so great.

Somebody said, if you asked this one question to your partner, and I think it can be asked to your best friend or your sister, or certainly your spouse or your mom or anything like that. If you ask this one question to have a really good relationship, but you'd have to listen to the answer. What's it like having me as a partner, right, and somebody just be so vulnerable to ask that question and sit back and listen.

Wow, just hit me with it, Hit me with it? What what's it like?

And then you know, I would imagine the conversation could go like this. Sometimes you're amazing, sometimes you listen, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you're emotional, and sometimes you're rock steady and you're like the biggest, best, beautiful tree that can be rooted and support our family. Sometimes it's you're judgmental and it's hard to talk to you, and sometimes you project so much of your fear onto me that it's hard to breathe.

Yeah.

I mean, it just depends on how deep you want to go. And is it okay to say, can we take a break? I know I asked the question. I want answer, I want to hear it. I'm feeling all kinds of energy. Can we take a break and come back and meet you in five minutes so I can just breathe through this so I can listen more.

Yeah?

Would that be accepted?

Absolutely? I tell couples to take a fifteen minute break because it helps their brain, because the brain basically goes into that fight flight or freeze response, And you can't regulate your emotions when you're flooded, when you're flooded with so much why did you.

Ask the question?

And you really want to know Sometimes if somebody is very, very honest, and even if they're saying it in the nicest possible way, yep, it's still hard to hear.

Yeah, what is that? What a great question though, that is such a great question. Yeah, I would love to ask that question for someone. Maybe I'll ask you that, Donna, after the show tonight, I'll ask you, what were you what was it like to be what was it like to be?

Uh?

For having on the show tonight, Well.

I just can't tell you how much, uh, how much I appreciated this show. We talk a lot about you know, politics on the station, and we talk a lot about you know sports, clearly this is a big sports station, and we talk about you know, topical stuff and and