I'm excited.
Donna Dee here with doctor Wes and what we're kind of calling this relationship Radio.
I think is your Micah.
You used to be a DJ doctors a long time ago, so yeah, you know what is exciting about this is that we deep dive into some of these important topics, and tonight we're going to talk about the all elusive love. Have you ever been in love? Have you ever been in love? And how do you know what love is? This is a big question. We know that the quality of your life is determined on the quality of your relationships.
And it's it's so interesting.
I was watching this interview with Jennifer Lopez, right, very successful woman.
She was on with Howard Stern.
I mean, she's gorgeous, she's you know, talented, she has a ton of money.
You know, she's beautiful.
He asked her the question, have you ever truly been loved in your life? And she said no, married four times, divorce four times. And then he asked her, have you ever loved someone truly?
And she said yes. So how do you know when you're in love?
Maybe it's infatuation, maybe it's you're just trying to get somebody, or you just want to be with somebody because there's you know, people that are with people that shouldn't be with each other because they're lonely or they think that they're lonely. Right, So have you Let's start with you, doctor West, and we want this to be interactive, so we want you to call us five one, three seven
over nine seven eight hundred, the big one. We want you to call because we have a licensed marriage family therapist here that is going to take questions and we're going to deep dive into this.
So have you ever been in love? And how do you know, doctor Wes.
I've been in love, Yes, I initially it began that way because we we had positive regard for each other. So that means we really we were each other as cheerleaders. We were we looked each other in the eye, we held hands, We we wanted to spend every moment we could together. We uh, you know, we're curious about each other. Do I feel like uh, well, I mean I've gone through a divorce and do I feel like that love lasted? No? It didn't. No?
No, Well, I mean there are a lot of people that go through divorce and were in love. I mean, I'm right with you on that because I've been married and was in love and loved my husband. In fact, I still do because I don't think that once you love some that love ever goes away completely.
I mean I.
Still love my ex husband in a way that I'm rooting for him. I want him to do well. I want him to be happy and he's in a new relationship and I want him to be loved and know how to do that as well as an important thing to do is to know how to love someone. Bob Marley wrote a whole song, could You Be Loved and Be Love? Right? It's really important to figure out what love is and how you have been able to figure
this out. So again five one, three seven four ninety seven thousand, we're asking and starting tonight's topic with have you ever been in love? And how did you know? Like there are some signs and we're going to get into that, but you counsel thousands of couples over your tenure as a licensed marriage family therapist out of Nashville. Are there signs that couples that you know that that they look like they love love each other or act like they love each other.
Yeah, they they make eye contact, they they reach for each other physically. They make bids for connections so they they know what each other's favorite snack might be, they know what each other would want at the store, they pick things up for each other. They make these small bids for connection throughout the day, and they stay connected in that way.
Okay, So if some give me an example of a small bid of connection, what does that mean?
Yeah, So what I would say about bid for connection would be would be when when let's say in the early in the morning, you look over and you say good morning, you as a direct bid for connection. Yeah, that's a direct bid for connection. Another bid for connection may be coming up behind someone and just gently, you know, maybe just just touching their arm and you're reaching for affection, and if the other person just ignores it, flat out
ignores it, then that's a that's a failed bid for connection. Yeah. Right, So there can be more subtle, more less less direct bids for connection. Yeah, that that certainly can. And if those failed bids for connection continue, that's going to one partner will get discouraged. They stop growing. I think couples that fall out of love they stop growing together, They move.
In different directions, they stop caring about what the other person feels or their personal happiness even probably at times, because there are couples that I know that you're like, oh man, what are they doing together?
Like they probably shouldn't.
And there are people that stay together just because it's comfortable or convenient, and they would you say that that's somewhat giving up on the love that they've had.
Yeah, it is. It is giving up on the love they had. They they've they have lost the desire to try to choose. I say, love is a verb. It is something you you choose to do every day. Mm hmm. It's and and it and it's so it's action, it's action. It's not something that people will say that that I've I just I just fell out of love. And I'm always really curious about that because I'm I'm because I want to know, Okay, what did you do to fall out of love? Because you made decisions to not reach
for each other. You made a conscious decision to stop growing together. Yes, it's not something that just randomly happens to you. There were decisions that you made throughout the day to not engage with your partner, to choose something else.
And are those the couples when they're in therapy, because you see couples at like their trauma, like you're at you're at they're at, kind.
Of like we need to do something.
Most often, I'm sure there are couples that go to counseling to prevent some of that from happening. But the majority, you would say, come when they really need your help. So are the are the couples that reach for each other? Do they do? They look at each other and look in their eyes when they're talking. I mean, how does that?
There's eye contact? Yeah, yeah, there is vulnerability. They are willing to ask each other questions and be honest with each other. The ones that don't make it are very shallow in their questions that they ask each other. They don't they don't go deep with their questions at all. I recently, I've I've been seeing couples that they have so much contempt. You've heard me talk about that, Yeah, but they have so much contempt for each other that
it's almost as if there are stranger. They're strangers. They just it's almost like they can't stand to be in the same room with each other.
Right, you know you just said some thing that.
I mean, I almost stopped listening because it struck me so hard when you said they're vulnerable with each other because I remember one of the things, one of those moments in my marriage, and we were connected for a long time, we really were, but there was something that he lied to me about and I caught him, and I and I didn't trust him and didn't feel like I could go deep with him because I caught him lying.
And then I thought, well, it was such a silly thing to lie to me about too, So like what else am I not seeing? And I started questioning in my mind, like does this guy have my back? What is? And then I became guarded. I put up a wall after that, and that was maybe one of the starts to the downhill that happened in our marriage. So people, couples that are vulnerable, you have to have trust that they have your back.
Right, absolutely, Yeah, absolutely, you have to have vulnerability and trust. And contempt is really when a partner treats the other with disrespect. They feel superior to that person, They feel discussed a name, called call each other names. Yeah, that mocking, eye rolling, They have hostile humor towards each other. That is one of the strongest predictors of divorce separation, which is what contempt.
So, yeah, when somebody says a joke and you don't think it's funny because it's aimed at you, that's that's what did you just call that?
Contempt? No?
No, no, the hostile hostile humor, hostile humor. Yeah, yeah, it's not funny if both people are loved.
No, I mean that is.
I've watched couples, you know, when you're out to dinner with a couple and one of them says something kind of tricky like that, and the other one takes it personally and maybe rightfully, so a little bit because there was some some some sticky stuff in there. It's just uncomfortable for everybody. Everybody feels real weird when it's hostile humor.
I got to write that down. Yeah, hostile humor. The story of us. I noticed that couples that really are successful have a story of us. So they have shared meaning, they have shared values. Okay, they they have a shared narrative, like their their stories are consistent and they match and they are compatible with each other. When you start to have differing stories of the relationship where they're coming in they're telling on each other, and they're wanting me to tell.
They're wanting me to be the referee to say who's right. I know, I've got a difficult couple, got a long journey. I got a long journey. Yeah, because they are they now are no longer sharing the narrative of their of their love for each other.
Well, and listen, we're not saying that this should all be you know, rainbows and butterflies all the time. Relationships are hard. That's why we're talking about it. It is that they're not. This is an easy stuff here. So when somebody has contempt and I know that that's a sure sign of divorce, has anyone ever come back from
that in your couples? Like, I know it's hard to predict or whatever, but it feels like if both if you've had some contempt once in a while and something, but contempt is over time, it really is a strong.
Yeah. It's like it's like, I hope I have to poke holes in that wall consistently each week. So I have to get them. What I mean by that is I have to get them to a vulnerable place where they own their part of that contempt. And that's so challenging. People are so threatened in those relationships that they will not be vulnerable with me. Wow a lot of times.
Okay, So they have to own their contempt. They have to own So you have to say, did you just hear the way you spoke to him?
That's right? And own it and express why why you were being contemptuous? What is it you're afraid of? Where is the pain point? I talk with couples about their pain points. Yeah, what what is it that's really hurting you? What are what are you thinking about? What are you when you look at your partner? What are the negative thoughts that come up? What are the negative feelings? Attachment injuries? I work a lot with that. We hold on to those attachment wounds and they don't get healed, and they
just keep festering. Where do those come from? That's when you failed? You were you weren't there for me. I needed you to show up for me, and you well, I mean the greatest attachment injury is infidelity. Yeah, right, of course, but it also could be consistently I reach for you in a very vulnerable place and I need you to speak with me, and you just ignore me.
Okay, So a bit for connection is is doesn't get answered, doesn't get that's that?
Okay.
So what if I'm tired from work and I come home and my partner wants he wants, you know, he's looking for a bid for connection, and I'm just so tired.
I just need some space.
I just need or the kids are running around and the dogs need to be fed. You've got to cook dinner and that kind of stuff. How important is timing when you're looking for a bid for connection?
I would just touch base with each other and say, hey, I notice that you're reaching for me right now, and given you see what's happening right now, we don't have the time to really connect, but I want to. Yeah, I want to, and I want to come back to that. So let's make a point to come back to that before the night ends. Okay.
Yeah, so you can say, listen, let me get dinner ready, let me get this going, and then before we wrap it up for the night, we'll we'll make time for each other.
You acknowledge it, and you acknowledge that you see the bid, and then you validate the emotion that I feel what you're fing to. I want to connect with you too. That's really what it's about is you want to feel that you want to touch base. I call it a secure base. Yeah, it's like you leave for the day and you want to come back, you want to touch base and just make sure we're still connected, and then you leave and you come back and it's back and forth.
But couples that lose that secure base there, they don't have they don't have that foundation.
They don't have each other's back, and that's what's really important. So there are a couple of signs that you might this might be a love relationship. The first one is you feel like you're yourself around this person, and you know, sometimes like and you can be open and honest and all that stuff with somebody. But I kind of have that with the barista at Starbucks. I mean I can be open and honest with a lot of people. So for me, I just feel comfortable around, you know, a
lot of people. So but I do understand that if you have to put on a facade and make like you're you know, you're somebody else for somebody important, maybe that's not a good fit. And maybe that's just kind of like an infatuation or you know, because butterflies are great in the beginning, but that wears off, and if you're looking for a loving relationship, then it's got to go deeper and just butterflies and being excited.
Right.
The other one is they are the first person you want to share good news with.
I love that.
I mean I have a twin sister, so she comes first for me all the time, So I mean she's the first person I tell. But in a loving relationship with my ex husband, I absolutely love telling him good news first and foremost.
Do you agree with that? Absolutely? That's that's what I miss from my marriage actually my I mean, I'm divorced now, but that's one of the things that I do miss about my ex wife and I is that we when we were good, we would share those wins throughout the day and it felt really good to just touch base and just send each other those text messages and connect. Yep. So yes, I definitely agree with that.
Well, we're gonna get more into I've got about six more signs, so these are good and they do get really good. Give us a call five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand. We're going to be back with more signs on whether this is a loving relationship or it's just kind of infatuation. So five three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand Donna Dy with doctor Wes Saturday Night, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati,
Beautiful Night in Cincinnati. Donnad here with doctor Wes, a licensed marriage family therapist, and we are talking about, you know, the crazy concept of love.
Right.
The quality of our our life is determined on the quality of our relationships. And we talk about how important it is to be courageous in loving others and being loved. Being loved is kind of harder for people then to love somebody. But we do have some signs We're talking about this earlier, doctor West, signs that you are in a loving relationship. We gave the first three that listen,
you feel like yourself around this person. This could be you know, the first couple of weeks or a month that you're with somebody, you really feel like yourself and you like yourself when you're with that person. They're the first person you want to share good news with. That's always a good sign, like, oh, I need to call this person because I just have the best day right right.
Their happiness matters to you. Yes, that's a big deal. Yes, And if you're in a long term relationship and you have that, you care that the person you are with is happy, and if you don't, that's a problem, right, right, You feel safe emotionally and physically.
This is a big deal to me.
Why is that important to feel safe and emotion and physically when you're with somebody.
Well, emotionally, if you don't feel safe, you're not going to be honest, you're not vulnerable. Vulnerable, You're not You're going to put the wall up.
Yeah, and physically too, Like as a woman, sure, I like a man to be a man, and I like I like somebody that if if I go somewhere, he's going to get me out of there.
If there's a mess, right, that's right. Yes, So you want to feel physically that you're safe with your partner.
What would be a physical.
Safety for you with a woman, Like physically is she if she shows emotion in public with you?
Is that something that's would be a safety.
Net for you?
Yeah, I think emotionally, I mean men in general, men in general, Yeah, I think emotional regulation is very important. Yes, for sure, with both partners. The ability to regulate your emotions can create a sense of physical safety when you're out Yeah.
Generally when you think physical, for me as a woman, he's a protector. That's just because he's the lion and he's a protector. That's what I mean. For a man, what is physical? What does physical safety mean with a woman? Is that even a thing is and you know that she's not going to leave you in a party when she's talking to somebody.
I mean, what is that? Yeah, that could be. That could be emotional and psychological safety if you if you feel that you can trust your partner, you're you're a female partner to not to be honest, to be loyal to you, loyal to you, A loyalty could be a part of that physical safety too. But I don't know about that. It just depends on the gender roles, right right.
I mean that's what when I think about it. The man really has the responsibility in the physical area of making women feel safety safe with them physically. That's a big deal to women, I think. Okay, so I just don't know what my role is as a woman in the relationship of making them feel emotionally, yes, physical what is that?
I mean?
What is let's yeah, what is that?
Five three seven, four nine seven thousand Men? I would love to hear from you what do you want from your woman in terms of physical safety. One of them might be that she's not loud and tries to, you know, create a ruckus so he doesn't have to get involved.
That would be.
Somebody that's going to get their man out of there too. I remember there was one time I was and it wasn't even a boyfriend of mine. I was with a crowd of people. We were at a crowd of people and we were at a bar. This was many, many years ago, and for some reason, this guy just went to a friend of ours and just wanted to start trouble. And I saw what was happening, and I literally grabbed his hand and moved him and got him out of there and said let's go.
And he turned to me.
And said because he didn't want to get we were all having the best time.
And he turned to me and said, thank you.
So that very much could be it.
Yeah, I just thought of that. Yeah, five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand. If you have something to add to that, because I would love to hear what you're what you would love for women to do in terms of physical safety. Emotional and physical is important for women, and you know, the gender roles are a really important thing. I mean, I want I want a man to get me out of there in that situation. Right, let's go to Mike and see if he's on I think Joe, did you
get him? Yeah, let's see, Hey, Mike from Independence, what do you think on this?
Yeah? So for me, a couple of things. I want somebody who's not afraid to show affection and that we are together when we're out. And then the other thing you kind of touched on, but there's a female causing problems. I want to have the girl I might be able to kind of stand up for.
Us as a couple without me getting involved with another.
Female that's causing issues. So that's kind of where I'm at on that situation.
No, so I brought that up.
That is such a good point, Mike, because I said, is it you want your woman to show that you're loved and adored by your woman in public?
So that is important to you, Mike?
Absolutely, Yep. I don't want to have to me try to show the dominance and everybody'll say she's with me. I want her to be able to to reciprocate that that emotion and kind of feeling towards me.
I think that. Do you agree with that?
Jestuus, Yeah, that makes complete sense.
Well, I agree, and I think I think most men would want that. I mean, there are guys that don't want, you know, to show, you know, what is that. There are people that don't want to be physically and you know, kissing in public or holding hands.
Some guys don't like it.
I'm one of those people that show emotion and show physical touch and yeah, in public, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
So I think the world jealous. Exactly, you're in love and make everybody sick about it. There's no reason why you can't do that.
Mike, thank you so much for the call. I really appreciate it. So, I there is something about physicalness that makes men feel safety and make.
The world jealous. That's what he just said. I love that.
Okay, we're going to finish up this topic. What about you're growing together? That's another That's another key indicator that you still have a lot of love in your relationship, is that you're willing to grow together.
What does that mean, doctor Weiss? So, I think that you remain curious about each other you continue to you continue to to seek each other's dreams. So you're trying to like talk about where do you want us to go in the next five years, ten years, And so I think that that is about growing together and also emotionally continuing to check in. Like I talked about on the last show, that that emotional check in.
Okay, So there are times when you have a lot of love to give and you just might need to do a little bit of work, right, That's what you coach couples on.
That's right, and it's it's it's.
Listen, listen more or you know, everybody's different, especially in a couple. But when there is a time, and I have experienced it, because listen, I've been divorced and that is one of the hardest things that I've ever gone through in my life. Anybody that has ever gone through a divorce, you have been in pain and you have overcome it, and it is there's no way around it. You literally have to go through the storm of that relationship. And there is a time, and I do believe it was.
We gave it a really good run. Married for almost twenty years, and we gave it a really good run. We're friends now, so no harm, no foul. It was painful. But the one thing about it is we didn't have kids, and I have had sisters that have gone through divorce with kids, and there's nothing like pain like that. And it's it's hard because you have to co parent with this person. And it's probably why I never did have kids, because I saw how hard it was for some of
my sisters and many of my friends. And when you have like, for instance, Halloween is coming up, a lot of people are doing Halloween stuff this weekend and certainly next weekend. But you know, sometimes one of the parents gets the child and you get to see the Halloween costume on social media or texts?
Right right?
How hard is that and how how challenging is it to have to co parent? But I want to know what are what are parents doing that are in this situation that they're doing right in co parenting?
Right right?
What would be something that.
That you would tell your couples if they had decided that they were gonna split up, right and they've got kids, And what would be one advice that you would give them to say, all right, well, you.
Never want to put the kid in the middle. You don't want to create a loyalty conflict. So I say that that there needs to be an alternating schedule. You need to stick to your parenting plan. But I also would would say, is there is it possible that you all can share holidays together? Is it possible that that we could coach you all to where you could be in a place where you could do what's best for your child and and actually share the holidays. There are some couples that do that.
Yeah, I and eventually they got there on my side of the family, Like, eventually they did get there and it was great and it is great today. What have you found that is working in your co parenting relationship? Five one, three, seven, four ninety seven thousand, one eight hundred The Big One. We want this to be interactive.
It is a fun call in relationship show, but we also want to get to the heart of some of this stuff and make a difference, because if we can do something positive and make somebody's life better, Yeah, that's an intention that we have to do on this show.
We want to have fun and we want to talk about some silly stuff too.
But you know, when you think about how many people have to go through co parenting and blended families, and now people have ex husbands and new husbands and families from You really have to figure out what works best for the children or the children. And I don't know that kids, you know, they're trick or treaty. They just
want to have fun. It's more difficult sometimes for the parents and the extended family like the aunties and the uncles out there that want to see their nieces and nephews on on Halloween and see their cue costumes and stuff like that.
And it's not always going to be the case.
No, you got to do a lot of emotional work on yourself to be able to not put that on your kid. So you need to be able to talk to someone about your emotions. You don't want to make your kid feel guilty that they weren't with you during the holiday, right, So that's very important.
That is a really good point. So how do you how do you not make the kids feel guilty? How do you do that?
Well?
I would avoid saying things like, man, I really wish I could have been there with you, yes, or you know, men must your mom must have she really lucked out this year having you right, comments like that that it puts the case in the middle.
Right, So, and also avoid name calling your parents. Don't ever, don't ever keep a solid front. See, even if you don't get along with your ex, right, it's really important to make sure that that kid, your child, doesn't hear the negative stuff between you.
That's right, Right, that's the most destructive. It's when the kids put in the middle. Is what research shows is the most destructive part of divorce for kids is when they are the messenger. Oh boy, so there you know, you're you're asking your kid for information about what's going on with the other parent, or the parents can't talk to each other, and so the one parent will say, hey, when you're with your dad, make sure you tell them X, Y and Z. Right, make sure you do that for me.
It's it just it puts them in a parental position.
Tell them he's got to pay for your school, right shoes? And yeah, yeah, that that does get a little tricky.
That's probably not the best way.
There's a movie that I saw that was probably one of the worst divorce cases with involving the child. It was called Irreconcilable Differences, and Shelley Long and Ryan O'Neill and Young Lil Drew Barrymore, and what she did was she took her parents to court because she couldn't stand the bickering anymore in the back and forth and they were literally a tug of war at the end where she was like, I want to go live with their housekeeper.
She wanted to live with the housekeeper.
And it was such a crazy movie that you know, put a huge spotlight on how bad it could get and involving the kids so much that she took their parents to court.
And she won and she went to live with her.
But they learned a big in the end, they learned a very big valuable lesson, like, neither one of us have our daughter now because she doesn't want to be with either one of us because we were so we just handled things so badly.
That's right.
And sometimes when you're in the you can't see the forest through the trees because you're in it, and you don't sometimes realize how challenging it can be for the kids.
Yeah, yeah, it's you got to do your own work, so you don't make your kid do the work for you. You got to really do your own work.
I've won three seven four nine, seven thousand. What's working with co parenting with you, right, what have you done that's going right? I mean in the end, with many of the relationships as they have aged and gotten wiser.
In terms of some of my friends and family members that have gone through this, we've gotten wiser all of us together, And like, okay, I could have done this differently, But hindsight is twenty twenty, right, So you can only do what you're capable of, right, But there were things that I know that you know, my sister would have done differently, absolutely looking back and now how much that that she's learned and grown from and everybody's friends and
and that kind of stuff. It's it's important to put the focus on the child, but it's also important to
put the focus on yourself. So that if there's bitterness, if there's anger, if there's resentment that happens to all of us that have gone through a divorce or a breakup in any way, shape or form, there's gonna be stuff in there, residual stuff, right, So if you can look at and take responsibility for, I mean, if you're if you're going through a breakup, The best advice I ever heard was put your health first.
Take care of yourself.
Because if you're working out, you're eating right, you're sleeping well, and you're taking care of yourself, and you're putting yourself a priority, you love yourself, right, and if you love yourself and you're taking care of yourself, only good things can happen from there, and then maybe the resentment and all the other stuff melts away a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah, that's really great advice. You got it. You gotta love yourself. You have to.
I'm sure it's important because if you don't, who is going to do that?
That's right, you have to. Literally.
I love Mel Robbins. She has a great podcast, and you know, as silly as this sounds, as silly as it sounds, she literally wakes up in the morning and she gives herself a high five in the mirror. Right, She's like, I got you. I am I am the best friend I was looking for. I am the mother I wanted. I am the father I wanted, I want, I am the child I wanted.
I got you.
I'm going to take care of you.
And when you have your back like that, you're not going to allow anybody else to.
Not have your back, right, that's right. I love that. You got to give.
Yourself a high five, and then well that's Mel Robbins. I mean she's great. She has that great book called Let Them, which I still not read, but so many of my friends love it.
Okay, so we got to take a break Saturday night. This is so fun.
We're going to get into quite a few things, including how we talked about wisdom and as you get older, love after fifty and how great that can be. We we'll get into that in a minute. Saturday Night, Donna D Doctor Wes seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati. I love this song, Pearl Jam. It's such a fun surfer song. Donna D with Doctor Wes on Saturday Night. It's already in the ten o'clock hour. We want this show to be interactive.
Five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand. We have a licensed marriage family therapist with us tonight, doctor West. So if you have something that you want to ask him while he's here, please feel free to call in.
If you've never called.
Into a radio show, it can be very fun and be a little scary, but tonight's the night that maybe you change something and you ask a question or you comment on what we were talking about and I was telling you off air.
I saw this video of.
It was on an It was an Instagram video and this guy was interviewing they were at Costco, right, And this guy was interviewing all these guys at Costco and he said, on a zero to one to ten, what is your how how much do you love going to Costco with your wife?
One to ten?
And I think nine out of ten guys picked zero. Like somebody said, what's negative? What's more negative than zero?
Right? Nobody?
None of those guys wanted to be there, So I don't understand why they would go to Costco if they did not want to go. I mean, couldn't Is it so bad to tell your wife for your spouse that you don't want to do something? What are the repercussions? Why don't Why aren't they honest? That's the last thing I want to do is go to Costco with you. I would have no problem if a guy said that to me. I do not want to go to Costco.
We're there for two I don't like that anyway. I mean, I whatever it is, Costco, Walmart, you but fill fill in the blank of you know, women like doing it. I guess men don't want to go with their wives. What is that about.
Wes Well, it it could be a number of things. It could be they don't want to get criticized. They don't want to get into an argument. They don't want it to have to be defensive. They also, you know, I think that it's about keeping score. We've talked about that. Yeah, and and they don't want that to get thrown up in their face, that they that they are not. It didn't help out It didn't help out right, that they're not.
They're not carrying their weight. That that. I think it's it's to prevent an argument on a.
Okay, so if and I agree with you, I think that's probably the main reason is to prevent an argument. But if I said, if I said to you, I don't want to go to Costco, or I don't want to go to the store fill in the blank of any store I don't want to go. I will do the dishes, I'll vacuum, I'll make make it up to you in some way, But that going to a store and being in there for two hours is.
Not my thing.
Yeah, I mean the level of guys that said zero sure on that list, why are they there?
They're there because I think it's about a transactional relationship. I think that if for them, if I do this for my wife, well then there has to be something coming back for me in some way. Well, I get it.
We all have to make sacrifices transactional. I don't necessarily, you know, want to take the trash out or do other things. We all make sacrifices to do that. But if it's a zero.
On the list of one to ten, you would be hooved.
I would rather go by myself, you know, I'd rather go by myself than have, you know, my partner, my husband, my boyfriend, whatever, be miserable being there.
Well, they're gonna end upetting into an argument anyway.
Well, men and women, couples, couples argue.
Let's be honest, like, there's always going to be some fighting that happens in a couple.
I mean, but what are you fighting for? Is the is the answer.
It's not just because you don't want to go shopping with your partner.
It's not that.
So what what? Why are they doing it? And what are they fighting for? Five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven eight hundred The big one?
Why are you? What are you fighting for? In your relationship?
Because if if it's too you need to come with me to the store so that we can get all this stuff and I need help bringing it in when I would be perfectly fine to do that on my own.
Right, if I if if.
As long as you're not miserable around me, that's the worst. I mean, that's nothing's more worse than that is. If you're miserable.
Around me, then then I.
Want you to do something else, right? Is that fair to say?
That is very fair to say. Yeah, And I would rather couples be that honest with each other, you.
Know, because you can There's always going to be chores, there's always going to be things to do that you can make it up.
Right.
Let me see, we do have some callers on here. I'm just gonna let Joe screen those for a minute. Five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand. Oh, I'm sorry we didn't get you. But we want to know what are you fighting for in your relationship? Because when you say I wish you'd pick up your shoes because they're all I'm always stepping over it? What would that mean in another way? Because you're you're fighting, but there's always some form of fighting.
Yeah, what's the meaning behind the what's a message?
Right?
Right? So I'm always having to you never pick up your shoes. I'm always having to step over your shoes. That's a complaint. Instead of making a request, would you be willing to pick up your shoes for me? Because I feel love?
But is it disrespect exactly? It's yeah, it's about love and respect. Let's go to Josh real quick and pleasant Ridge. Josh, what are you fighting for in your relationship? Oh?
I was calling about Costco?
Oh please tell me.
I'm not going to talk about my marriage. Okay, Okay, I work for Costco. I don't see a lot of people fighting. I've seen it. You guys didn't mention the one thing that I.
Think men don't want to go to Costco.
With their spouse as you spend a lot of money at Costco. There's a lot of stuff you don't need. You can go for one thing and you come back with ten, and you go to spend one hundred and you spend four or five.
Okay, so you think the real reason, uh huh is that that they don't want to spend that much money because when you go to a store.
Like that, yeah, that are more apt to get the thing you don't really need, but it's nice, and it's you know, you don't really realize what you got til you check out and it's six hundred bucks.
So but isn't that the reason why you go to a store like that is to buy bulk items? And because that's the reason why I think somebody would want their partner to go with them, like you got to carry all this stuff in the car, and it's they're not fighting. The The guy was asking them, basically, one out of ten, how how how much do you want to be here with your wife? And all of them said zero, every single one of them said zero. But
and I think it's just shopping in general. It really isn't just about one store, right Josh?
Well, yeah, I would say the smartest Costco shoppers don't even grab a car. You go in and grab whatever you need in your house. But I don't know, I mean, how much shopping do you do that's not online? I mean we have everything delivered Amazon?
Right?
Yeah?
Everything?
Yeah, yeah, I get it.
Thanks so much, Halloween Costumes, have a good night, Josh, thank you so much. Let's go to Matt and Cincinnati. Matt, Hi, you're on with Donnade and doctor West.
Hey, how are you guys tonight?
Good.
I just had a little I wanted to share in epiphany that I had at the end of a long toxic relationship that really made sense to me and clicked home. I kind of sought my girlfriend's approval, like, you know, if you if you would just do this or that, then I would be happy. Well, one day she just laid it out to me plain a day and she said, you know, I'm not responsible for your happiness. And I'll tell you what. That really hit me like a of bricks and I really changed my way of thinking about
things and that that really is true. You know, you can't look for somebody else to do different for you to be happy. You have to be happy with yourself and whatever they're doing in order to you know, be happy with your situation. That really really made a difference in my life.
I love that, And you know she's right because it's not it's not her job to make you happy, but there but happiness can come from your relationship. You can be happy with somebody, but it's not up to the other person.
Doctor West to agree with Matt.
I do I do? I agree? That would hit me too, and I just can't rely on it.
Yes, and I and I feel like a lot of people need to need to understand that even when you know, when you get married. I remember my husband saying on our wedding night, you know, in front of we had a big, pretty big wedding, two hundred people, and I remember him standing up and giving me a toast, a toast to me, and he said, I'm going to make her the happiest person that in her life. And I remember thinking, oh sweet. But I thought back then, that's
not your responsibility. It's not I have to make myself, you know.
That was that was the issue that I had with it, because that's what I always sought to do, you know, that was my always goal. So it was hard for me to come to terms with that. You can't always expect that. You have to lower your expectations. You know, if you're a giver, then you have to lower your expectations on what you're going to get back.
It's just a fact.
That is a funny way to put it back. You got to lower your expectations.
So you're okay, I don't necessarily know if if if lowering your expectations is what you need to do. But understanding, well, that right, Matt, like to maybe match to maybe match what's your what you what you're willing to give.
You can't always expect that match in return, That's all.
That's what I was saying.
No, no, And I absolutely agree with you on that because if they always say you give to the person what you are, and that's what you're going to get like a mirror. So if you're somebody that doesn't give unconditional love, then you're not going to get that from your partner either.
Absolutely absolutely, Matt. So yeah, I just want to share that with you guys. I love I love the segment.
I appreciate it so much. Thanks and call again because you're a great caller.
Thank you so much.
Matt.
Oh, by the way, Matt, you know what, that's my ex husband's name is Matt Well.
Is that funny?
When I saw that from Cincinnati because that's where I met him and that's his name. Thank you, thank you, thank you so doctor Wes. How big of a point was that that he just made. It's not up to somebody else to make us happy.
That's right. We have to get that internal validation from ourselves. And how do we do that. That's through our self talk.
Yeah, yeah, because a lot of people can be we all, I mean, I will put myself included in this. We all can be really hard on ourselves. I mean, and sometimes you don't even know that you're doing it until you wake up from that mind maze, chatter of the ego, just talking talk and talk and talk and talk and talking and being real negative. So how do you pull yourself out of that funk? You're aware the self talk, right, and then you change the dialogue.
You change the dialogue. Yeah, I tell my clients put your thoughts on trial. What's the evidence for the thought? What's the evidence against the thought?
Oh?
I like that.
So you're saying, is this really real that I'm thinking or is it just something that's fear crept in and it's causing a disruption?
Yeah. Just because you feel like something's true doesn't mean it's true.
Right, Right, And we were talking about this about loneliness versus comparison.
Right, You may not be.
Lonely, you might just be comparing yourself to other people's lives.
Right.
So you know, right now, I'm single for the first time in a long time, and I see a lot of my friends and family that are you know, with really really solid relationships and kids and and everything else. And so if I compare myself my life right now, it could look on the surface lonely right because I'm I'm single for the first time in a long time.
But I chose that.
And I also understand that because people are with somebody doesn't mean they don't have their issues. I can tell you that I there was a time in my life I was married and I was sleeping in the bed with my husband and I've never felt so lonely in my life ever, and he was laying right next to me. And I've been more alive and content with myself with where I am right now than I ever did feeling that way.
Yeah, that's so powerful.
It's it's it's real people go through. I mean, I don't care if you're if you're married and you have ten kids and you have a house full of stuff, you can be lonely in that situation.
It happens to people, it does, it does. It doesn't mean that you're when you're when you're single.
And you're alone physically, that you're lonely right right. And so if you have that mental self talk that can get negative. You can view it that way, and then things get real scary.
They do, right, they do, And then that's a self fulfilling prophecy, right, because the fear just feeds more fear based thinking, and then it's a feedback loop. Then you just continue becoming more and more depressed and anxious.
And yeah, so when we are in these feedback loops and you get anxious and depressed, and you can kind of get into a funk. Oh right, I have a friend who's going through something right now that's I would call a funky place, right, And there are times where you know, you can pull yourself out of it quickly or you can live in that for quite a while.
How do you pull yourself out of a funk?
Because and I said this the other day to her too, I said, when when you're healthy, you have a million problems. When you're sick, you have one problem you have you So, in other words, taking care of your health and being healthy is the number one thing everyone should be grateful for.
Because if you.
Don't have that, you you know it's it. Life can get.
Tough, right, So all the other stuff we can fix, all the other stuff, the self talk and working out, nutrition and sleeping well is going to be a really good thing. Let's go to Joe. Let's go to Joe and Lexington real quick. Oh Joe, I'm so sorry. I just missed your call. But how else would you pull yourself out of hunt knowing of your self talk, being aware of it.
I'm sorry.
Joe.
Here you are, Hey Joe from Lexington. You're on with Donna Dean, doctor Wes. What's up?
Oh yeah, I just want to comment on women don't like the shop. But I don't know me uh, I think that for a lot of guys, it's like maybe that's the only time them in their lives spend time together. And it's like me, it's kind of I'd rather spend time with you, taking up to dinner, you know, going on a trip, going on a hike, you know, go fishing, do you know, do something. I think for a lot of guys, it's like maybe they're depressed cause that's the only time we spend time together. It's kind of a
monumental waste time. I could be home cleaning out together, hoing out the garden, working on the house.
Feeding the dog.
You know.
I mean, I don't mind to go shopping, but I don't know, maybe that's it.
No, So, Joe, would you would you prefer to go by yourself instead of with your lady?
Oh no, it wouldn't bother me at all to go with with with my wife. I wouldn't care to go.
Yeah, so you would just basically, is this the only time that we're going to spend together is shopping because I'd rather do other things? Yeah?
Yeah, I mean I think that might be such a negativity of why guys don't like the shop me. It wouldn't make a difference if you want me to go, fine, but I mean if someone hurts her feelings, I'll go. I don't care about it. But I'd rather, you know, stay there and clean and.
Clean up the gothers is pretty intense.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you want to go out and spend time together, you know, let's let's.
Go up, let's go there, let's go play golf, let's go for a height.
I love that, Joe. How long have you been married?
About? Twelve years?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, uh yeah, yeah, it's uh but you know, I mean, my wife it's kind of like it's kind of crazy. I mean, she nothing affects her. And we got hit by a tornado a couple of years ago, and I'm standing there with a bar and gone, a roof gone, the transformer land across from my truck, part of the other house, you know, the roofs torn And she pulls in and she looks and she's, well, you know,
I'm kind of distraught, kind of in shock. And she says, well, we can just clean up and rebuild, and she goes then mix makes herself a cup of tea. You know nothing, Yeah, do you love?
Is that the main thing that you love about her?
As she stays calm and weathering literally the storm.
Now what I love her about her?
She never talks about people.
You know, the whole time I've I've been with her, she hasn't had one negative word to say about anybody.
Man.
That's yeah, I am not that person. I fall way short.
Of that, you know.
I mean, I don't see how she does that, don't I never question it. But but you know, it's not like I talk about people. But you know, sometimes something makes me irritated, you know, But yeah, I don't know. Yeah, but that is.
Definitely something to love about someone. I absolutely love that, and I have never heard that before.
I have never heard a man say.
What I love about my wife most is that she doesn't talk about other people. She's never had a bad word to say about somebody.
Isn't that great?
Yeah?
I'm lift and never gets mad Harley, I mean, I've never really seen her upset.
I yeah, I.
Mean I just wish I could be half of that. That'd be all right anyway.
I love it.
Thank you, Joe appreciate it.
So I really feel like we need to open the phone lines and we're gonna have to get going here in a minute seven four nine five one three seven four nine, seven thousand. What is the best thing about your spouse? What do you love most about them? Considering Joe just came up with something amazing. Donna D Doctor Wes Saturday Night News and Weather and Traffic up next on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati OO Saturday Night Donna D with Doctor West doing a little different thing on WLW.
We're talking relationships. I've been calling it relationship radio, and we just had a great that his name is Joe, and he said the best thing about his wife she doesn't say a bad word about anyone.
He's never heard her gossip.
He's never heard her say a bad word about That's something to be admired. I don't think that I've ever heard that before. I mean, I try and be positive, but yeah.
Sometimes people annoy me.
I'm not gonna be the you know, I work with Stirling all the times.
No, but I mean, what a great thing to say about somebody You've never heard her say a bad word. So the question where were we asked right before the break is what is the best thing about your spouse? Five one, three, seven, four ninety seven thousand and one, eight hundred the big one. I have a new Instagram relationship Radio Donna d so please join me on that again. We want this to be interactive. What is the best
thing about your spouse? What do you like most or even what made you fall in love with your spouse?
And is that still burning within?
I can tell you, doctor West, because you know, I'm kind of an open book. And I was married for you know, almost twenty years. And one of the best things about my ex husband is he was fun He was funny, laughed a lot, we were both. He taught me how to play guitar, so he's a musician, a great musician. And we used to play music all the time together. In fact, we still send each other videos of songs we used to play all the time.
And so I would say that was the best thing.
And probably the thing that I miss most about him is the way we used to play music together, sing and we even played out when we were in when when I lived in la we played out as a duo. So what is the best thing about your spouse? Five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand, one eight hundred. The big one, the thing about turning that I mean, we've talked a little bit about how hard it is. You know, can whether a
relationship is going to work. The four horsemen, whether it's contempt or defensiveness or stone walling or what am I missing?
Criticism? Right, those are the four horsemen.
So flip it around and look at the positive things about the person you're with. And is that because the last time we were on air, which was a couple of weeks ago, one of the things you tell your your couples that you counsel is to give them a little homework, you said, and one of the things is what is the best thing that they did in the day, and then come back and report to you on the next session, like pick something out during the day that their spouse had done right.
Yeah, exactly, And so why do you tell them to do that?
Because it forces their brain to go into a positive, what's working mindset, right, instead of being so negative and focusing on what's wrong all the time.
Yeah, so you look for the good instead of always looking for the bad.
That's right.
And how often does that work with your couples? And do they come back and tell you they do.
They take it serious, and they do find things that they really appreciate about each other, and it does create positive momentum. They'll say that they had a better week, they were less critical of each other because they were focused on what it's worked.
One thing.
Oh man, it's amazing because you know, I've learned years and years and years ago to do a gratitude journal, and it really does work. I write it at least five things that I'm grateful for every single day.
I get up and do that in the morning, and.
I feel different when I don't do it because just writing.
Those things out, and sometimes it's difficult for me to just limit it to five.
Because the more you start focusing on positive things, the more you have reason, the more things you'll find, and then the more reason you will have to be grateful for. Like I'll sit on my couch and I'll open my window and I'll hear birds chirping, so I'll be grateful for the birds singing in the morning, or I'll grateful for hot cup of tea in the morning or something like that.
And there's so many things.
When you turn your focus on looking for the positive, whether it's in yourself or in your spouse, or in your sister or your mom or your dad or anything like that, you really can find them.
Yeah, you can. You can. And it's a mind it's a mind shift. So that that's a good practice for you, Donna, is that you're doing that every morning, and I think with consistency, you can start to retrain your brain to start to see those positive aspects about each other.
So when you're when you're and you've counseled you know, thousands of couples and you pretty much been doing this for over ten years, do you ask them when you're sitting on the couch and they're, you know, in sometimes very dark positions, do you ask them what is the best thing about can you name something good. So even if it, you have to get the bad stuff out too. You have to communicate that. But can you disrupt some of that and ask what are they doing?
Right? Do you do that? I do that? I do that. Sometimes I'll say, how are you all keeping this from getting worse? What's something that you're doing that's helping it not get worse? Because sometimes it's hard for them to come up with something good. So I just roll with it and I'll say, all right, well, then what are you doing to keep it from from really getting bad? And that will then cause them to remember things they're doing for each other.
Okay, So are there times where couples say I don't have anything good to say?
Yeah? For sure, Yeah, wow, yeah, Yeah, that happens. And they're usually so stuck in the four horsemen, the criticism, contempt, stonewalling, defensiveness, they've just stopped talking. Sometimes I've had couples say that they look forward to therapy because it is the only hour they talk to their spouse the entire week. Wow.
And I have to think if you're at that point in a relationship, you just don't feel heard and just talking to somebody about some of the issues that you have. Just kind of feeling heard is important, but how you communicate that is really important because you know, if I'm sitting in couples therapy and my partner doesn't speak to me, but then I hear all these things that he says to the therapist that he cannot communicate to me directly, that would be hard to drive home.
Yeah, out of that therapy office. Do you see that?
Yeah? And I have them I say, don't tell me, tell your partner. Try and look at your partner and just say that to them, don't talk to me about it. And so I have them look at each other on the couch. Sometimes they'll say, that's too hard for me to look at them in the eye right now. That's too hard for me to say that to them.
Wow.
So I'll say, okay, well, then talk through me for right now.
Okay, And so how does the other person handle that, because that would be really hard.
Yeah, they are very they're hurt, and then I have to spend time processing with them. They're hurt and their sadness and they're maybe they lost hope in that moment. So it is a back and forth where I'm basically they're at that point I've got people in two different places, and so I'm having to kind of, you know, attend to them wherever they are.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, one of them is hurt and one of them's angry, right, one of them, I mean and and and it does happen. So what would be the advice you would give to somebody that's going through something like this in their relationship. They have a lot to say, but they don't feel comfortable saying it to their partner. Would they write something down?
Yeah? They journal if they can. If they can journal it, if they can get their thoughts out on paper, that will at least help them to feel that they're valid that there.
Would you ever suggest texting or emailing your partners so that they can read it instead of instead of like being defensive about it.
Does that work? That can work? Emails can work. I often will say, write a letter and then bring it to therapy and let's read it. Read it here in the therapy session with me in the room. That way I can help. Yeah.
Yeah, So would you say your job for couples that are in that kind of trauma just facilitating any kind of communication at that point.
Right, Usually it's they have learned to trust me, so I'm their safety net. They can start to through me. They know I've got their back. Yeah, they know I've got them.
You're there to help, You're there not to criticize or judge, or you're there to support. And that is really really important to feel like, Okay, I can say a few things without somebody screaming at me or trying to defend themselves. That is that is important. So how important do you think, because there's maybe some stigma about therapy still, I mean, and how important is it? And and maybe not waiting to get to the point of the real trauma that you see couples in when they come and see you.
How important it is to get a jump on that before it gets to be that bad.
Yeah, I recommend premiure, I recommend premierital. I recommend if you're not getting if you're just cohabitating, go to therapy before you have problems. It should be like any other you know, checkup you have, like a six month checkup or a you know, a three month checkup with your doctor. You should go in and do a pre get ahead of it proactively. It's a lot easier to correct problems at that point.
Yeah, you can learn how to communicate with each other. That's that's a skill that a lot of people think. It's always so funny to me when when you know somebody, you'll say to me, relationships should be easy.
They're not. They're hard work.
It's the relationship thing is not that easy.
And the more skills that you have in terms of being able to communicate with and it's not just marriages, partners, and it's not just that it's mom and daughter, it's sisters, it's fathers and sons. It's those types of relationships that you know, if you can take out being offended, which I think stops all kinds of communication. If you were to say something to me and I was offended by it,
that would be hard to communicate with me. Like, how hard would it be to come and talk to me again if I'm offended and think you're just just dismiss everything that you've said because that's not me. Yeah, you're looking at me in the wrong light.
Right, it shuts it completely down.
Yeah, So with tools to say, Okay, i'm feeling this energy because you just said some weird stuff about me, and I'm feeling that energy, let me just sit back and take a breath so that I can maybe even go walk outside for five minutes so that I can come back in and listen to what you have to say, because I know you have something that that that's bothering you and I want to hear it.
Most couples don't do what you just said, though, they don't ever come back to it. They'll just sweep it under the rug.
But then you get a giant mohill under or a mountain under that rug you do, and then it gets harder to look at. It gets harder to look at, I mean, and that and that comes with again, any relationships. I mean, I was just visiting a friend of mine and she and her mom kind of they've always been good, but they still do argue, and they still have things that they have to work out. My friend has done a ton of work on herself, so she's able to
communicate fairly well. But you can see there's there's things that they just decide, Okay, let's never talk about that. Politics is one of them. Politics is one and uh, and so they just decide, okay, you we just cannot talk politics.
Is that?
Is that something you would suggest if there's a topic that always comes up, and there's always an argument just to say let's not go there.
Yeah, the relationship is more important than than that.
Any one thing. Yeah right, Okay, So we're gonna come back.
We're gonna we're.
Gonna talk about love in a in in later years, which is gonna be a really fun topic and I am excited to go into that. So Donna d Doctor Wes, it has been so fun. Please make sure you're calling us five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand. We'll be right back with with love in later years and how fun that can be on seven hundred WLW Cincinnati.
It's always such.
A fun time of year, Halloween and then we're it's getting chilly here in Cincinnati, beautiful time.
I love the holidays.
So this is like some of my favorite favorite times to be in Cincinnati all the way up to I think January and then and then it's like, uh, Donna Dee with doctor Wes, we're talking about relationships today. We have had some great callers and we always want you to call in and be a part of the show. Five one, three, seven, four nine seven thousand, even if you have just a question that doesn't relate to the
topics that we're talking about. We do have doctor Wes who's an LMFT licensed Marriage Family therapist, and he's here to help guide us and support us.
This is what you do, doctor Wes.
You counsel couples all the time, and it's important to understand how important it is to be able to communicate with one another. Correct, Yes, absolutely, it is. Yeah, communication is is very important, and it's it has to start from within your ability to be vulnerable with yourself really and to be able to have the courage to bring up what you're feeling. But that requires a sense of
security and safety in a relationship. Yeah, and being vulnerable like oh man, I because sometimes when you're in a relationship, you can feel your absolute worst and most insecure. And if you can't go and talk to your partner about it, if you can't open up and be vulnerable and talk to your partner about it, who are you going to like? There will be you know, you can talk to a therapist and I think that's always really good. And then certainly your closest friends. I can't do it without my
women friends. I can't. I cannot have I can't. I am not a good communicator if I don't have my women friends hang and let's get a let's get a call real quick. Jim, we're talking about couples slang. Jim from Fairfield, what do you have to say on this topic about counseling with couples.
Well, my wife and I we did couples counseling, and but the first couple of times when we got back in the cars, he was uptight because she felt like the therapist was a quote unquote on my side, you know, and and and you know, yeah, and I know your
guys a couple therapists. But really where we we started making progress when we started, when we got away from the couple's part and we started doing individual therapy because for me at least, it got the ego out of the way where when she would say something, I didn't want her to make me look.
Bad in front of the therapist.
And when we started, when we started working on ourselves individually and our perception, you know, working on it separately without the you know, the like the embarrassment of looking bad, we started doing a lot better. And then the other thing that I found that all of our kids are gone now right and I'm sixty.
My wife's fifty two.
And you know what, one of our big without the kids, when it's just us, it's way easier. You know, we raise four children, and you know, when we were in therapy, we had we had children, and man, you know, they're just trying to have relationships with your children also with your wife at the same time as a lot. But now when I just can focus on her, me and her and we're doing we do way better well.
Man.
So those are two good things, right.
So I thought you were going to say something different, Jim about the empty nester and you don't have any anything to talk to your wife about.
So you surprised me.
On that saying we get along way better and the kids are out of the house and we can focus on each other. What an amazing thing too, because I know a lot of couples that I've talked about it. I was on with Eddie and Rocky, and that was one thing that Rocky said, what happens when your kids are going? I know, this is a big fear with what if we don't have anything in common anymore because the kids were our main focus during the relationship and it's so.
Well, you know what I did, Yeah, you know what I had to do. Is you know, it's all we'll just call them a mentor. But I had to when we first got when I had to make a list of things to talk with her about because we were so frantic with the kids, like simple stuff like what's your what was your favorite favorite subject in high school?
I never asked her.
You know, there was a million a million things that I didn't really know because we were in the frenzy of tried to raise four kids and we didn't have time for that. Man, and I just I just made a list. And you know now, I look, I'm on my way home from a gig. I'm a musician.
I can't wait to get home, you know. I mean, it would do way better just me and her. I love it.
And you're smart make a list of things to ask her because yeah, you forget to do that, is he and and and and doctor West please talk to about what Jim said about guy could be embarrassed and like feel humiliated if the wife is calling him out and stuff, and how important it was to do so.
I recommend individual therapy all the time for that for that reason.
Because and Jim, you put it in such a great way that you know you you didn't. I wouldn't even have thought of like maybe being embarrassed that she's saying some of the things he's doing wrong. I wouldn't have thought of that. I'm sure you see that a lot though.
Yeah, and the egos get the ego rises, even though it's supposed to be I mean, I know, and I know of course that it's you know that the therapist is not going to walk around talk about it, but it's still when it's in front of another person, it just it just it feels like a shot at you. Even if it's just a statement. You know, you feel like you're not doing it right. I'm doing it. I'm I'm doing it wrong, and she's tattling on me in front of this guy.
You know. So I didn't like that. I did. I did a lot. We did a lot better when we got it.
Sought individual therapy, and we didn't have to do it very much maybe, you know, I think we did about four visits each and then then I felt like we got back on the right track.
You know, man, that is so great. Whose idea was it Jim to go to therapy? Was it your wife or was it a mutual?
Yeah?
It was my wife's and so you know, it was my wife's idea. And I'm like, the only reason I'm so brave and laughing right now is because he's not in the car with me.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I did find it hilarious that, you know, the issues that came up in our first couple of sessions. You know, it did kind of feel like the therapist was on my side a little bit, which was awesome for me, but not so awesome for her. I almost felt like we made we got back in the car. She was a mad or at me afterwards then she was before we went.
Yeah, because I always this is going to sound a little bit different, but I was on a morning show and my co host used to always get in trouble by the program director, and so I would feel so bad for him and I would go, oh, oh, don't don't get mad at Jesse, and he would go, thank you.
Sir, may have another like he literally kept kept these.
He handled it well, but like in the other room, he would say, he's always on me, He's always this. And I actually felt that did you feel bad for your wife?
If?
Yeah?
I did, because you know, man, I don't mind telling you since it's the radio. But I'm in recovery, so I already had kind of a already had my own kind of therapy going on anyway, you know.
It's the twelve steps and all that stuff.
So I wanted it. I really did kind of wanted to go her way. And when it didn't, like, I did feel bad, you know, So I felt a little bit guilty.
But you know that's the way it is, you know. I mean, we're doing great now. And now that we got the.
Damn kids out of out of the equation, we're doing much better. Other little guys earlier, they're all in college now. So now that just me and her, we're rocking it. I mean, I also before I hang up, yeah, I love the programming. We're not talking about sports or politics.
I like that.
I know it's a nice change.
Thank you, Jack, thank you very much.
And I will tell you your authenticity just really comes through and I appreciate you so much. Thank you so much. What So, two great points there. If it's not working as a couple, right and you know it, like he said, four or five visits for each of them, they both decided that they were going to go on their own. If it's not working, would you suggest they go on their own and then do you ever.
Have them come back again? Okay, how does that work?
Yeah? So we just reintegrate, or we integrate what they learned in their individual sessions into their couple dynamic. So what have you learned in each of your sessions and how can that help you create a brand new cycle of interaction in your marriage?
Like he said, and I really did not even consider the idea of someone being embarrassed about Tadlin like she's you know, and that could be hard, That could be very hard. Like he, you know, got mad at me the other day and said this horrible thing, and and she told on him, and then that could almost feel like a violation, Right, So how do you get past that? You go on, you go and do your own until you can both hear it from each other.
Is that what it is? That's what it is. So oh my gosh.
And then the other thing he just said, which was so great, that was my favorite call to night.
Thank you so much, Jim.
When he talked about how because I know this is a very big fear for couples is when the kids leave, what are.
We going to have to talk about? What are we going to do?
I'm I have a very close friend that was devastated when her kids left, and and I'm like, well, your husband's still there.
I don't care. I want my kids back.
And so his take on that was ouch so refreshed. I just hit my elbow so kind of it's such a new take on that very painful subject of what do we do when the kids that he actually enjoys it, and not only that, but that he's doing things in the right direction of like writing things down and asking her questions.
What did you what did you major in high school? I never knew that. Yeah, yeah, And that's what we would call love maps, doctor John Gotman would call love maps. And so you could just research that on your own if you're interested in that. But there's also also a New York Times article the fifty Ways People Fall or fifty questions to help You fall in love. That's another good one that I recommend a couples too. Just give some good questions to ask you fifty questions. Say that again,
I mean, yeah, fifty questions to fall in love. The New York Times article, Oh I'm sorry, it's thirty six questions. Thirty six questions that lead to love. Yeah, you can just google that.
Me give me what do you have one pulled up?
Yeah, given the choice of anyone in the world, whom would you want as your dinner guest? Would you like to be famous? That's another question? Uh, these sound like bumble? Yeah? Do they sound like bumble?
Well?
Maybe maybe? Maybe I am new to a dating app.
Let's talk about let's go there, Wes, because I am new to, you know, a dating app.
Prior to that, I had never been.
But I have very good friends and family members that met literally the love of their life on on on bumble or you know, one of the one of the dating apps. Right, So you know I'm newly single and obviously I'm trying it and a lot of am icy empty nester looking for long term relation of that kind of stuff. So I see that on there. But some of those questions dinner days, who would you have?
Those are? Maybe they looked at the because it give me another one. Let me say, I'll just closed it out, let me pull it up.
Okay, So what what dinner guest? I think I've answered that before too. Somebody's thing Because you know, as much as people don't want to admit, and there's this funny, funny, funny guy that I mean, I swiped right on him just because of this one funny thing he said, because he goes, I'm willing to lie about how we met, which is hilarious because top secretly, right, everybody feels like dating apps are there's their taboo and they're for desperate people.
But that's the way we date now.
It's the way we find people is because everybody is on them and and and that's how you meet people now with all everything digital, we stay home and we're on dating apps. Sometimes it's nice to go out and meet people in the real world, and I still do. But everybody is on dating apps and there's nothing wrong with it.
Nothing. Do you agree? What you pulled it up was that?
Yeah? What would constitute a perfect day for you? Okay, when did you last sing to yourself? Sing?
Yeah, that would be right before I got on air?
Yeah? For what in your life? Do you feel most grateful?
Oh my gosh, the list is long. My health is always number one. My health is always number one? Am I supposed to be answering these? What are you most grateful for? Doctor Wes?
Definitely health.
Yeah, it's got to be number one because, like I said, if when you're healthy, you have a million problems, right right, This is the quote I've just recently adapted. And when you're sick or you have a health issue, you have one problem.
Yeah, so health is always going to be I'm so sorry.
I was going to pick up this call and they just dropped it because I really love our listeners from Fairfield was so every one of our listeners were so great tonight five one, three, seven, four ninety seven thousand. If you have a comment on anything that we spoke about, or even have a question, we have one more segment after this. It's already almost eleven thirty Doctor West. This time flies when we're going through this relationship show, and it is very different that we're doing this on WLW.
As Jim said, it is normally sports, you know, and and and politics and things like that.
Those are important things to talk about.
Streling and I still do a weekend show together, which I love, and ours is somewhat music related and topical stuff that we talk about and have fun with. But this is really based around relationships and those things that are that we're all going through, and we're all going through something, whether it's you know, breakups, divorce, which is always very hard. New loves like new loves, and we were talking about this new loves later on in life and how fun that can be. You should never ever
give up on love. I just read that John Travolta, who is seventy five years old, is now dating Kristin Davis, who is sixty one. She's from Sex and the City. She was Charlotte from Sex and the City. And they're in love. And his wife, you know, many people know, Kelly Preston died, so he was a widow widower and to find love at seventy five and they look so cute together and they're so happy.
It's amazing.
Another one, Robin Wright, married in divorce three times. She was married to Sean Penn and otherwise. She's almost sixty and she thought, oh, I'm probably going to be alone for the rest of my life. And she found love and she has a new boyfriend who's an architect, and they're great. So we've got another gym. This is so funny. We have so many gems on the call today. Jim James James from Amelia. Jim, how are you doing tonight?
Hey, guys love you, I mean guys, but you know what I mean.
I do.
I absolutely you can call me guys, and we're I just realized we're up against time.
What what can what? What do you have to add?
I was just saying that when our son to join the army and what to Afghanistan and he had to come back. But that was when we broke up. It was like when the you know, when the kid laughed and then he really left. It was like a big deal and it was I understand what you guys were saying about all that stuff.
Yeah, so and and and Jim, thank you for the call, and please call back on the next segment because I want to hear from you about that. It is important to understand that not always, it doesn't always go well for everybody. We all have our own different circumstances on how our relationships work and things like that. Just because the other the previous gym, it worked that when his kids left, he was able to focus on his relationship. It does not always go that way. So we've got
to take a quick break. That's how we pay the bills, and we're gonna come back and talk about why you should never give up on love and doctor Wes is going to give three things to bring more love into your life. That's coming back, Donna D Doctor West, Saturday Night, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.
Wow.
I can't believe this is our last break of the night. It's been so great being with you, Doctor West. Donna
d Doctor Wes. We're doing our relationship radio stuff and it's been really important to dive into some of these matters of the heart, especially when we're talking about breakups and how important it is for couples therapy because and just like our last caller, Jim from Fairfield was so great and how we understood that when his life suggested to go to therapy and they went as a couple and she was, you know, revealing some some some things, some issues that she's had with him, and he felt
like she was tattling us.
That's right, that can happen, and then.
She felt like the therapist was on his side, so she felt horrible after the therapy session.
That's right.
And they decided to go their own way and in terms of therapy and go one on one sessions instead of the couple. And he said, we went four or five times and and that's all they needed to get themselves back on track.
And that is amazing. Yeah, it is, and that will happen where couples will I actually tell my couples that sometimes it may sound like I'm on the side of one of you, but I'm actually on the side of the relationship. The relationship is my client.
And how amazing is it right to find this renewed love? For if you're in a long term relationship, you do a couple of things, a little tweaks here and there, You go through the stuff that's hard, and you look at yourself and take personal responsibility so that you're able to listen to your partner.
And then you find, like Jim was saying, how.
Great his marriage is now, they're totally on track. It took four or five individual sessions and they're doing great. And I feel like it's the same thing about when you find love later on in life too. Like I told you, we were talking about John Travolta, who had that devastating loss of his wife, Kelly Preston. She had cancer and passed away, and he's been single ever since. And now he's dating sixty one year old Kristin Davis from Sex and the city, he's seventy five and they
found love again. You don't ever want to give up on love, right, And that's really important whether you're in a long term relationship and you have some really good bones in the relationship, you have really good structure, and you just figure out how to communicate.
Yeah, I think couples, some couples give up too soon.
And the grass isn't always greener by the way. I mean loving somebody later on in life. There's so many good things about it, right because you've been there, you've been in relationships, and you've loved and lost, and you've learned a lot, so you're a lot wiser going into a relationship.
Right.
Also things that that nitpicking stuff Like I look at some of the things that used to drive me nuts with my ex husband, no big deal.
I'd look at him now and say, it wasn't that big of a deal. Why would I get so bothered by it?
So as you, as you age and you evolve, and you get to a point where that used to bother me, it doesn't bother me at all anymore, right, And so you hopefully we do as we age that you get wiser and you evolve, you do in your relationships and within yourself. Like one of the things my twin sister and I always talk about is like, let's not get bothered by stuff anymore, right, Let's just try and.
Get over that.
I mean, we spend hours on the phone sometimes, so I'm like, are you eating again on the phone or you doing the dishes?
Are you putting your dishes? It's so loud.
Now.
We try, we really try, and we'll put each other on mute oftentimes because we just stay on the phone for hours and.
We have to do some things while we're on the phone.
So we just try and have so much patience with each other, and it's such a better way to go. So we've got a few minutes, and I want to talk about three things doctor Wes that you can do
to bring more love in your life. Right, So I want, I always want to leave the show with some positive energy and some things that we can all take away, Like if we were talking to you in your in your office and we're there to get some counseling and things like that, how can because you see, sometimes as you get older, some people are more get off my lawn, you know, and grumpy, and it's hard to live that way.
It is so hard to be grumpy about things, and you can change that, Yes, you can change that by bringing more love into your life. So so with that being said, three things that we can do to bring more love into our life.
Well, number one would be to be more loving to yourself and others.
Yes, okay, so to be more loving to myself and to others.
So that means.
Taking care of myself, gratitude journal, which helps me to be more loving to myself, learning where I'm bothered by something, and then trying to change that, address that, look at it, become aware of it, and then trying that's more loving because I am I'm so much happier when I'm not bothered.
Yeah, even when.
Like a friend of mine, we were talking about this, she goes out with a friend of hers and she's always arguing with the waitress, or there's you know, some server that's done something, or you know, traffic is always I mean we all have issues with traffic sometimes.
But when you don't get bothered.
By that kind of stuff, you really feel more in control and you're like, man, look at how much I've evolved. I remember in one of those I used to be a part of this program called Seat of the Soul, and it was all about authentic power. And one of the questions we had was, how did you deal with a difficult situation before and how do you deal with it now? Right? And I remember thinking when I was getting upset with my my husband, my ex, I said, this is gonna sound so bad and so childish.
But I used to walk up the stairs.
And I used to stop my feet.
Oh, he's gonna know I'm pissed, right right, He's gonna know I'm mad, passive, aggressive, Huh right, I'm just like I didn't know any bod I just thought, I'm mad and everyone's gonna feel it.
I'm just going to fill up the room with it.
And then I really saw how much I had evolved from the work that I had been doing two years in and now I would go and sit quietly and breathe and take responsibility for my own energy because nobody can make me feel a certain way, right, That's right?
That is true. Yeah, that no one can make you feel.
They have to have permission from me in order to feel a certain way. So if I'm angry and I blame you for it, that doesn't really make sense. Okay, what's number two? What's another way?
So number two would be get out of your comfort zone, picking up new habits, right, doing something every day that gets you out of your comfort zone.
So if you want to bring more love into your life, because there is a ceiling that we all have, so and you can call it happiness or love or whatever, there's a ceiling that we have that is a comfort It's more of a comforting thing, how comfortable. That's the ceiling of how we allow ourselves to be happy is the ceiling. So if you get comfortable with being uncomfortable, you raise that happiness ceiling or that love ceiling.
Right, So that's really good.
I love that.
So give me some examples of doing something different, like what do you.
Mean well, changing your daily routine, daily habits. So getting out of your comfort zone could be, you know, confronting a fear that you have.
Okay, So let's say.
I played tennis my whole life in the past ten years. I haven't picked up a racket, so then going and joining a racket club would be a fun, cool new thing, and I'd beat a ton of people and then I'd feel proud of myself and love myself for going out of my comfort zone to do something different.
That's right, Okay, I love that. Okay.
So third thing that we can do to bring more love and or happiness into your life is.
What call the people in your life and make bids for connection.
Okay, this is a big one. I love this one.
Yeah, as nobody picks up the phone anymore, no, right, I mean it's texting or email. So when somebody call, and I've been doing this lately, so I got to give myself some props a pat on the back.
Oh good, Okay, because.
When somebody calls me, if if I'm busy, I'll just send it to voicemail or send a text and say I'll call you back. But I've been picking up the phone because they want to talk to me. If somebody is calling me, they want to talk to me. So even if I'm busy, I will hear their voice, they'll hear mine. They know I care about them enough to pick up the phone, and I'll say I don't have time to talk right now, let's schedule it for later.
Yeah. Yeah, I love that because you're acknowledging you're accepting their bid for connection. You're acknowledging. You're acknowledging their emotional their emotional bid for a connection with you. You're validating it, and you're setting the intention to come back to it.
And you know what, doctor West who like Because I work during the day and I'm on calls and zooms all the time. So I used to even there's a slight, slight, slight part of me that would get annoyed if somebody called me, I'm like, oh, I just don't have time for this. But now I look at anybody that calls me or sends me a text or sends me an email.
I'm grateful for somebody that cares enough that wants to talk to me and cares enough that sends me a text, And every single time I use it as an alert to be grateful for the people in my life.
That's great. I love that.
Yeah, I love that too. That's a new awakening.
Yeah that's awesome. That was really good. Those they're your three.
But I love all those things because it's never I feel like we have so much more potential to give and receive love to our starting with ourselves. So the kinder that I am with the people in my life, then kindness is what I'm giving, and that's what I'm going to receive. Love is what I'm giving, So that's what I will receive. Yeah, and if I'm irritated, guess what I'm gonna get irritation or if I'm angry or get off my lawn woman where I'm like, you know, don't I'm bothered by something.
Those bothered things are not a good look.
I mean, you know.
So, so working on giving what I want to receive is going to provide you know that It's like a mirror, right.
I've often said that relationships are like a mirror. So if if.
If you want, if you're in a relationship right now, doctor Wes, and there's something that you're not getting, you should be giving, that's right.
Right.
So if somebody feels alone and not seen or not heard, maybe they're not picking up the phone when someone calls, that's right.
I mean, I'm just getting I'm putting this all together.
The light bulbs are going off, right, So it's almost like who said it, be the change you want to see, gandhi, right, be the change you want to see, Be the change you want to see in your relationships.
Start with just tiny little things.
If you want to BackRub, or you want a foot massage, or you want to hug, go give it. That's right, and then maybe someone will say, oh, that was so nice. I want to Or if you're not getting respect or the respect that you feel like you deserve, maybe that's what you're withholding from your partner.
So it all comes back.
It all as stems from you know me, you, It always stems with the eye in the relationship. It's not what my partner is not giving me so much, right, it's what I'm not giving out.
And to myself. Yes, that's exactly right.
So I do want to touch because we have one more minute here on on how important counseling is because we're even we're getting it as we're talking.
That's why it's important.
Communication is everything, right, It is how how you figure stuff out.
We can't do it alone. We have to do it with our partners in this life.
So if you could recommend if somebody doesn't want to go to therapy, what should they start doing journaling or what?
Yeah, journaling reading blogs like the Gotman blog is a really good one. Doctor John Gottman. Psychology Today dot Com has some really good blogs on it.
Even even there's some really good podcasts and certainly relationship radio shows like this one seven hundred WLW, which is Saturday nights now nine to midnight, which I'm very very excited about.
I can talk about this stuff forever.
I really nothing fires me up more than being able to talk about how we can all live and thrive with one another, because can you imagine doing this on your own? You can't do it. No, So another great show. Thank you joshor Ross for coming in, Thanks for having me and I appreciate it. Thank you for all of our callers today. Our listeners are the best of the best. We're going to be back next Saturday, nine to midnight,
right here on this most amazing session. Go Bengals. We should get a win tomorrow one o'clock at pay Corps, and we really should win that game. I think I may have to even put on that.
We're gonna win. Come on, we're gonna do that. Go Bangles.
We'll see you next Saturday on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati,