If it comes up again and you need someone to back you up on a broadcast to do ringside for you in a broadcast so you can attend the gathering of Kiles, I will do it. Can you imagine what that phone call looked like? Hey, Sportsnet, I know I'm scared to work this Saturday. Hey, there's a gathering of Kiles. Can you hear it at this place called Kyle? That's right. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, The Podcast, presented by the GMC Sierra AT4X, Shremmati, Friedman, Bukaskas, all with you.
Another jam-packed edition, later on in the podcast, you're going to hear our interview with Michael Rubin, the CEO and founder of Fanatics, along with Andrew Loakey, the CEO of Fanatics Commerce, really interesting conversation there. Stay tuned on that one. The thought line, of course, as well as part of every episode, but Elliot, we would be remiss if we did not start with the lucky 13 in Winnipeg.
You know, before we get to the jets, you know, Dom, you know, you and Kyle have something in common. What's that? Neither one of you is participating in the in-season cup. Wow. You're really coming out with that out of the gate. I just looked at it. I have 14 days. This has 13 days. Matt has Utah, which took the in-season cup from St. Louis on Thursday night, and he's guaranteed four, and he has the current crown. I didn't realize that you have had only one day with the cup.
Yeah. I haven't shown up to that yet. You are the anti-Winnipeg of the 2024-25 season. There was a game a couple of weeks ago when Winnipeg beats Seattle in overtime in Seattle. If the crack had found a way to win that game, the whole in-season cup landscape would be different, but what it could have should have. I'll get going. I'll get going. And we'll replay this later on in the year. Don't you worry. You know, Merrick ran away with it the one year.
He had half the year, and he could only split it. So that's the way this pool goes. That was a great game with the jets in Avalanche. I had a lot of wild swings, two teams going at it hard, two good teams throwing haymakers at each other. There were moments I thought the jets were locked. There were moments I thought the Avalanche were a lock. I don't know if you watched the last minute, but there were about seven seconds left.
I thought for sure Colorado was going to score, but the jets battled hard. They held strong. It was a great... I think it's news for the Avalanche. It's McCarr played. He wasn't too hurt that he couldn't play. One of the things the jets talked about, and Nino Neeterrider discussed it in overseas in Prague before the season, but he said there were times that they absolutely panicked against the Avalanche and the playoffs, and forgot what they were supposed to do.
And there was none of that in this game. I thought the jets battled for every inch, just like the Avalanche did. That game lived up to everything we could have wanted. 13 and 1, the second team ever to do it. The other thing I really liked about the jets this week is that they could have become unglued in that game against Tampa with the controversial goal that was scored by the lightning. They've just really kept their composure. They haven't panicked. They haven't lost their minds.
It was a great game. 13 and 1, and a big test to on Saturday, Dallas. You're not in the middle of the week opponents. Colorado, Dallas, and a great start to it. And you were smartly pointed out after the Winnipeg Colorado game on Thursday that the jets 13 and 1, they and the 0708 Ottawa Senators, the only teams to win 13 of their first 14 games out of the gate. Now, unfortunately, that addition of the Senators back in 08, season didn't end great for them.
It was a quick exit from the playoffs and a bit of a struggle down the stretch. Hopefully for Winnipeg's sake, it's not a bad omen for them. If I remember correctly, that Ottawa team started I think 15 and 2. But one of the things that happened there was they burnt out in a real hurry. Brian Murray had coached them the year before to the Stanley Cup Final. And he took over as general manager. He replaced John Muckler. Like, Murray and Muckler had been having a real battle behind the scenes.
They weren't getting along. And basically, they decided that it had to be one or the other. And Murray won the power struggles because he just coached them to the Stanley Cup Final. And he became the general manager and John Patek was the head coach. And the thing I remember about that was they got off to that great start. They looked fantastic, but they got burnt out. They had the big line that year of Heatley, Spetsa and Alfredson, and they played them a ton.
And when that team started the playoffs, I remember they were on fumes. And as a matter of fact, John Patek actually got fired. He didn't, he got fired in February and Murray took over and went back behind the bench as GM and coach. Now, I don't see the same thing happening for the Jets this year. I think they're much more balanced.
You know, we've talked about the fact that I wonder if they look for one more big strong physical defenseman, although when you're 13 and one, you're not complaining too much about how a team is playing. But I don't, they don't remind me of that. That's Santer team. They burnt out their best players so quickly it caught up to them. I don't see the same thing happening with Winnebake.
Like as a matter of fact, there was a time in this game tonight where Arneal actually went to a bit of a blender and changing some of his lines around because he didn't like the way things were going. So that's the biggest difference I see between those two teams. I'm fascinated by this Jets team. I think the way that they finished last season, and they lost a couple players in free agency. And the other thing that's going on right now here too, Kyle, is that they have five players.
And some of them are very important players who are UFA's at the end of the year. So you have a lot of things that can pull you in a lot of directions. But right now, they're just focused on what matters. And that's winning games, and they're doing it better than anyone else in the league. You're right. And I go back to your earlier point about what went wrong for them against Colorado last year in the playoffs.
You remember two seasons ago, it was kind of early on in the second half of the year where things started to get rocky. And they were never really able to write the ship and lost to Vegas in five games that year. So that for me, why I'm kind of going, it's great to see how they've come out. But once that first rough patch hits them, because surely at some point it will, how do they handle it?
That'll think a long way about telling us if this Jets team is a little bit different than the previous versions the last couple of seasons, even though there's a lot of similar faces in the lineup. When it comes to Hawking Canada right now, there are some teams, Toronto's one, Winnipeg's one. Vancouver, they're still on the upswings, they're not totally there yet, but they're getting there.
Edmonton's kind of another one, even though they're having a really tough start to the season, where it's hard to impress your fans during the first 82. Like sure, that crowd in Winnipeg was bonkers tonight, it was a great atmosphere, it really came through on television. And you enjoy big games and fun games, but it's basically show me. It's basically this is an 82 game dress rehearsal until the playoffs start, and then we'll see what you're really made of.
The problem is you can't convince anybody now. Now it's like we said, it's the dress rehearsal, and that's the thing, I'm watching this Winnipeg game tonight, and it's a great game, like I said, the crowd was spectacular, it was entertaining hockey, but they beat Colorado one to nothing. It's a great night for the Jets, and whether it happens right after the game, or during the game, or it happens half an hour after the game, everybody's saying what you just said, which is, that was nice.
Can't wait to see if it happens again in the playoffs. The regular season is not a reward for any of these guys, for the Maple Leafs, the Jets, teams like that, the Oilers, teams like that. The Maple Leaf season is sort of like your empty calories, your Colonel's popcorn, before the true meal begins. Don't drag popcorn into this, empty calories, but totally worth it. And just a reminder, you gotta at least... I'm not a big popcorn. You're not? No. Oh, okay. You're more chips. Chocolate.
Chocolate. Okay. Chocolate is my weakness. I cannot turn away from chocolate. I am a weak man around chocolate. I know I want to talk about this hit in Vancouver LA, but I also wanted to quickly shout out, just while we're talking about big wins on Thursday night. I wanted to quickly shout out, Fedetov in Philadelphia. He wasn't even supposed to start today. The other goal he got hurt in the morning skates, Philly, since they were in Tampa, like, when you're on the roll, you're the later team.
So you don't skate till 1130. And just think about it. Like, Erson's hurt. He's not playing. He's not ready to get back. And Fedetov's supposed to be your backup. And the other goal he gets hurt. Now think about it. Your AHL team is in Lehigh Valley. If you notice at noon that your only other option is injured, do you think you're going to be able to get someone from Lehigh Valley to Tampa? No. You know seven hours before the game. You're using the eBug. So, and Fedetov has really struggled.
And when he gave up that wrap around goal to Kucharov, like, people were ripping him. Like, go go check social. Like, people were ripping him. But to his credit, he held strong. He beat a good team in Tampa. And on the road. And, you know, the other thing with this, with this Mishkov benching. Kyle, you know as well as I do. There's a danger your team goes off the rails in a game like this. You're down to 1 AHL goalie. You've benched your rookie who's already one of your best offensive players.
And it's clear that his teammates like this guy. They like Mishkov. So, it can go off the rails. And when a team plays hard in a game like that where there's a lot of excuses to go wrong. That says to me, regardless of the results, because Philly's near the bottom of the league, you have players who have not quit. You have players who are playing hard. They've got pride. And they're saying, we have every reason to get pounded in this one tonight. But we're going to grind out a victory.
That says a lot about, you know, despite the results, where that team kind of is. And how motivated they still are to perform. So, I have to ask you though, with Mishkov being a healthy scratch, does that taint his eligibility in any way for a call to trophy nomination if it were to come to it at the end of the year? Okay, Philadelphia people. That's Kyle Bacoskis. I'm just asking a question on social. Don't send any of this patented Philly abuse my way.
Go send it to him. No, of course not. He's totally fine. Lots of runway for Mishkov there. You know, I have to say, you kind of knew that this was going to happen. To me, it was early. Not that Torrella is going to care about my opinion. And like I said, the team didn't melt down or give up or anything like that. I will say I was surprised it happened this quickly. I'm with you on the call or thing. I just wanted to hear what you would say. And you did not disappoint. I threw you under the bus.
That's exactly what I've come to expect on the show. Okay, let's get to Besser. The head he took from Tanner Geno in Los Angeles in the first period. Geno assessed a match penalty. And as you say, Besser did not return to the game the rest of the night. That was just a tough one to watch, wasn't it? The number one thing I look at when there's any head contact is does Besser do anything at the last second? That gives Geno or anybody who hits him and excuse to hit his head?
Does he move his head at the last moment? Does he make a sudden movement that a player can't alter their path? And the answer here is no. Like Besser's head does not move. That responsibility is on Geno to not make contact with the head or not pick the head. And sometimes if a player comes back, you can escape a further suspension because they'll say, oh, he got kicked out with 50 minutes left in the game. It was just after 10 minutes in the first period. That's long enough.
And then you know that Besser's hurt and he didn't come back, that's not going to help Geno here. So a match penalty is an automatic review. And that obviously was going to get reviewed anyway. And Geno's got to know he's in danger of more games for this one. You can't do that. The responsibility is on him. And it's turned into just a bit of an ugly night in LA2, LA just on the injury front. Besser leaving the game, we saw Mikey Anderson take a point shot to the side of the head.
Thankfully was able to turn his head right at the last second so it didn't hit him head on. But still cut him open. Wasn't a pretty sight on the ice. Another thing you just never like to see as he went off in a hurry. No, and unfortunately he didn't come back. So I hope he's all right. That was really ugly. All right, you mentioned the Ottawa Senators 0708 version earlier. How about the current edition of the Sands?
I mean, you were on with Marquesi and Fuida on Wednesday talking about the bad loss for Ottawa in Buffalo Tuesday. Follow it up with a tough one against the islanders at home on Thursday full credit to the islanders though. We know how short man they are and to grind out a win on a road there after beating the penguins earlier in the week. But that's two regulation losses for the Sands.
It's an interesting situation that this team is in because, as you said, like what an opportunity against the Sabers to send a message not only to Buffalo, but the rest of the Atlantic division and the group of teams that are trying to emerge and establish themselves in the Eastern Conference. But they didn't. And then another loss against the Rangers. We hear about some good things that they did. They still get nothing out of it results wise. I'm looking at what's coming their way now.
They're in Boston on Saturday, Elliott, Lena Salmarks first game back against the Bruins. And then they go to Toronto at the early part of next week, two more divisional matchups. It feels I understand it's early. I'm not here to make things over dramatic, but it just seems like we're going to learn a lot about what this addition of the Ottawa Senators are going to be about over the next two games and what they show after letting some opportunities slip here over the last few days.
Well, this is going to be a big money on the board game. I was listening to you talk about that for a second there, and I've forgotten that they were playing in Boston on Saturday. That's going to be a big money on the board game because both Allmark and Swaman are going to be expected to put up good money there. Because even though like nobody looks at Allmark as a bad guy or anything like that, it's still a pride game. It's a pride game for Allmark. It's a pride game for Swaman.
And so there's going to be a big chunk for the postseason party on the wall for both teams. It's a pride game, an absolute pride game. What we need, young Bukascus, is that Spider-Man meme, the Spider-Man pointing at each other, and we needed for the Senators, the Sabers, and the Red Wings. Because Ottawa has that great weekend last week, whereas you mentioned they win a game and they lose to the Rangers even though they played fantastic and they got Shesterkin.
And then they followed up with two absolute clunkers this week. Buffalo, not only did they beat Ottawa, but they pounded the Rangers on Thursday night. And you know what those fans are saying like this is exciting. But we've seen this before, and Detroit had a big win against Chicago the other night. But again, like all these teams do is they tantalize you. They wet your appetite. They make you think yes, they finally put it together.
They have all this talent. They are seducing us with their potential. And then they can't put it together for more than what, two or three games, three or four games. One day, one of these teams is going to put the run together and they're going to get in. But it's like you look at them right now and you're afraid to believe. Because you're waiting for the inevitable trap door to fall out. And this week it happened to the Senators. Very, very disappointing week this week.
You know, the other thing too is, you know, you mentioned it, like Buffalo is a team that's in their division chasing them. You can, even though it's only November, you can deal them a blow. Like the Islanders tonight, they're in the other division, but you know that they're going to be in that wild card battle. You can deal them a blow and they can't do it.
So not only are you not winning games, but you're allowing the teams that are chasing you and battling with you to collect points and feel better about themselves. Like that's the tough thing about these teams is that they just, it's like Godfather 3. Just what I thought I was out. They pulled me back in. And then they knock you out again. I do want to mention Isaiah George. He's got to play the last two games. Like I was just up in London.
And of course he was a London Knight. So they all love him up there. And they all, they all really think highly of him as a player. But he's played two games now and he played 24 minutes on, he played 24 minutes on Thursday against Ottawa. And in both those games, the two wins, the honors have had this week that he's played. He has been on the ice in big minutes. Like he's playing with Noidotson. Yes. The key situations, latent games.
And like Patrick was not saying, okay, end of game now, time to put someone more senior out there. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, he's going out there. And he's played very well in those two situations. Like the elders look like they have a real find here. And it's early and he's going to have some tough nights. And there's going to be ups and downs. But that kid looks like a player.
Like nothing I've seen in the first two nights of him playing makes me think, hmm, this guy is out of his depth. And you know, you don't want to say he's never going back to the American Hockey League. Because you never know what can happen. But the one thing I will say is if he does go back to the American Hockey League, it won't be long until we see him again. 20 years old, fourth round pick for the Islanders back in 2022.
You say, just finished up his time in London, four career games in Bridgeport, Elliott, and now two with the New York Islanders. None bad way to start. He told the other thing I noticed too. So after the Islander skate on Thursday morning, Patrick was doing his media availability in the hallway at the Canadian Tire Center. And in behind Brady Kachak and Keith Kachak are walking by on their way out of the building. Keith is in town visiting Brady. And I'm sure the grandson is as well.
But I just thought to myself, like how many and how nasty of bleep you matches between Keith Kachak and Brady Kachak. And how many different languages? Exactly. Like if you were to give true serum and think the first thing that would come to each of those guys minds when they saw one another, that would be fascinating. I couldn't help but think that this morning. It's too bad like they were talking. And also after a loss, I think that's the only thing that I can do.
I couldn't help but think that this morning. It's too bad like they were talking. And also after a loss, you know, Kachak probably isn't going to chat up. Waa too much. But it would be funny to sit them down together and ask that question. You have given me an idea. Great. I'm sure no, but luckily nobody else listens. And nobody else will ask first. All right, we'll get on that right away. In the meantime though, we should probably talk a little bit of Nashville.
So earlier this week, Barry Trots and it was the quote that got a lot of traction around the league. Interview on 102.5, the game in Nashville where he said that he's trying to do some things. But that if the big one, if we don't get it going, then I'm going to start our rebuild plan. They had a close but lost to Washington on Wednesday night. And they played hard, they played hard in that game. That was a game where they played hard.
For sure. And then got the doors blown off them against Florida on Thursday. So I mean, Trots has tried to explain kind of what he really meant by saying he was going to rebuild plans. Yeah, yes. He radioed himself, unfortunately. He didn't mean the way it was interpreted. And I'll say this right now. I hope that doesn't mean that Trots stops doing these. And so it used to be Kyle, I grew up in an era where the GM, the Toronto Maple Leafs had a radio spot once a week.
Once a week, you could tune into whether it was CKY and Toronto or the fan. You knew that the GM was coming on once a week and they'd come on again if something big happened. And this happened in every market. The GM would come on once a week and you could ask them, this is what I'm thinking. And it was, it was their way of getting their message out. Now, you know, Trots does this hit once a week on that station, as you mentioned, in 1025, the game in Nashville.
And I'm on there every Thursday. And he, and like, I think he's the only one who does it. I don't know if there's another GM who's on radio once a week. And it's good. It's really good. And he gets, like the hockey fans of Nashville are very well served by that interview.
And the only thing I ever worry about is nothing that the radio station did wrong, like the host did nothing wrong, was that he sees a day like this and he's like, I don't know if I should do this anymore, because it's one word rebuild. But he didn't say it in that way. Like if you listen to the whole interview, he's not talking about it. And the other thing too is, like, look at the roster. Like, look who's signed on in goal.
Saros is newly signed for a long time. On defense, you're not trading Roman Yosey and his defense partner, Brady Shea, just got signed for a long time. You know, Forsberg signed a long time, Stamco's, Marcia, so, you know, Ryan Arralis got a couple more years. These guys have got trade protection, Nashville's a no-tack state. So a lot of guys were happy to go there. I mean, these are good players, and if you wanted to make some of them available, I'm sure you could do something for them.
But, you know, like, how many teams blow it up two months after signing all these guys? So, you know, if you want, you could trade, like, a fabro. If you want, you could probably trade a no-vac. If you want, you could trade Nyquist, who's up at the end of this year. But, like, a lot of the big pieces you have there, either you're not trading, or they might not allow you to trade them. So, you're not rebuilding in the traditional sense of the word.
What he's talking about, and he might end up doing it anyway. Like, after a game like that, I'm very curious to see how Barry Trotts reacts. You know, does he, because what he's talking about is, they've got some young players down in Milwaukee, and maybe I give them a chance to make their NHL debuts faster than I thought so. Like, what do we know? We've talked about this a lot. They can't get the second line center situation sorted out. They can't find the right fit.
Shay and Yosey are having trouble getting used to playing with each other. You know, Yosey's a unique guy. He plays a unique way. Now, they asked him to change it a couple years ago, and like a true captain, he did. But I still think he's kind of a unique player. Also, the way that Carolina played is very different from the way that Nashville plays. And I think Brady Shay is still getting used to A, a unique partner, and B, a different system.
Now, the teams got a play better. They're very perimeter. They've got that whole, and at number two. And so maybe we all overestimated them and we should have seen all these things coming. But like a true rebuild. And last one of these guys is going to do what Ryan McDonough did and say, look, if you can send me here back to Tampa, I'd like to go back. You're not getting rid of these guys. Like, it's just not happening.
So, you know, I don't exactly know, like all you got to do is look at the roster and say, rebuild. They're not doing a rebuild. There's no rebuild here. They indicated this year they wanted to win. You're not throwing it out after two months. Like, I think he's frustrated. I think he's trying to light a fire underneath them. But this is not he's not talking about a rebuild in the true sense of the word.
Right. But that's, as you say, when that word is presented, it's natural to think the one extreme, you know? Well, the thing is, but Kyle, like, that's not acceptable. Like, the one thing about us, like, we have to do our jobs. And I'm far from perfect. Like, I'm far from perfect. I make mistakes all the time. But the first thing I did when I heard this was, you know, I made sure I went and listened to it.
Because the other thing to about Barry Trots is he is not known for short answers. Like, everything he says has a lot of nuance to it. He thinks he's a thinker. Like, you know, anybody who covers the predators who were dealt with Barry Trots before, you should know that almost nothing he says is meant to be parsed in a single sense. Like, that's one where, like, sometimes we walk into our own trouble. And I'm as guilty of that as anyone is. Sometimes I walk myself into trouble.
I don't think he walked himself into trouble. I think this was one where quite simply, he may be used one word that gets interpreted a certain way. And instead of people listening to the whole thing, it got turned into tear down, complete rebuild. And that's not what he meant. No, I agree. And for all the reasons you laid out, and though we believe Barry Trots to be a very bold person and not afraid to think outside the box, couldn't see him going down that path.
This early into things. It just doesn't make sense, as you say. And the thing is too is that like, Yoshi's not going anywhere. Like, which of these of those players would you want to trade? And secondly, how many of those players would have the power to block it and would be willing to change it? And you've got to give it a bit of time as frustrating as the start has been.
Like, what happens? What's my line? When you're struggling to the other GM throw you a life preserver? No, they throw you in Anvil. Like, he's a perfect example. Look at Buffalo, the last couple of weeks. They're looking, they're out there looking to see what's what's available for them to help their team. And all the sudden these rumors come out about Byron.
And you know what? How that happened? Because Kevin Adams is out there saying, I want to help my team. And people are saying, Oh, well, you want to trade me Bowen Byron? I can help you. He's like, come on. I'm trying to make my team better. I think another guy he got asked about was Dylan Cousins. I heard there were a few teams that were asking about and Kevin Adams, like, not interested in doing that. Like, how does that make me better?
And like, if you're going to show him a trade that makes him better, then he'll think about something. But what kind of trade are you going to make with? I know Dylan Cousins had a really tough start to the start of this year, but he signed. He's still young. He's a talented kid. Like, show me how you're making that deal. And you're going to be better. And that's the way he thinks. Collie, you know the other thing I was thinking about with Nashville. What's that?
The other thing this says to me is, and we'll see if I'm right or we'll see if I'm wrong. Next game, someone notable could be sitting. And the thing that you're weighing about this, if you're Brunette and trots. So I looked at the standings today, both the jets and the predators have played 14 games. The jets are 17 points ahead of the predators. That's wild after 14 games.
So part of you is sitting there saying, I have to do something to get these guys attention. But the other part of you is saying, I can't throw two points away. I understand this Yin and Yang. I can take someone out of my lineup. I can send the shock waves through the veteran gets scratched. Because right now who's getting scratched? It's Tomasino. It's Evangelista. It's Macaron. It's, you know, Novak or Sissons if they're hurt.
But if you really want to send the message, it's someone you're expecting to play. And that gets noticed. But you can't throw games. You need your best lineup. Every game from here on in. You can see why sometimes NHL coaches struggle with sleep at night. You know, I'll say something else too. I just got to know while we were doing this. And this person said to me, did you see Mike Sullivan after the game?
They got pounded by Carolina. So here's his quote. I'm using Josh. You always information here. So credit because I don't know how many reporters were there. So I'm using Josh's information. I thought we had a lot of guys who played really hard and didn't get rewarded for their efforts. I think there were a few guys that didn't live up to the expectations. And I guess someone I don't know who, but whoever it was good on them.
Do you believe that some of your players didn't play hard? And he says, I thought a lot of the group tonight played extremely hard. So he's saying, no, some of my players did not play hard, but he's not giving it to you. But you know what that does? That means everybody's going to be guessing all the penguins fans, all the media. They're going to be guessing who's he talking about and Sullivan knows that.
That's his way of saying, I'm mad at somebody or a couple people. I'm not going to call them out by name. But how I'm going to make your life a little uncomfortable is everybody's going to be able to guess. And I guarantee you, whoever he's referring to knows exactly who they are. And the other players in Pittsburgh, they know exactly who he's talking about. Same thing. You know, when when Pittsburgh plays next.
Is there someone missing and you say, okay, now I know who he's talking about or does he or does this his way of challenging that player and hope he responds. And that's the one thing about Mike Sullivan. As you know, Elliott over the course of his time in Pittsburgh. He really doesn't criticize players publicly in any fashion. This would be as close to doing that as Mike Sullivan would get. So you know what's serious is he's even this close to that line.
He wants everyone to know he's unhappy with someone. But he's going to stop short of saying who it is. Now while we were talking here, because I got that text, I was going through and looking at it. And I have to say, well, I'm doing exactly what I just said I was going to do his plans working. I have fallen into the Mike Sullivan trap. I think I if you look at the Pittsburgh first goal, he calls out a play on the first goal.
And it's it looks like it's Eric Carlson. And last time missing something that I'm not seeing there, it looks like it's Carlson. And you know, we'll see how everybody reacts over the next 24 to 48 hours. But that is rare. As you said, he does not do that. And even though he doesn't use a specific name, people are going to know.
Next week, Elliot, the GM meetings in Toronto and video review, not a surprise expected to be part of the conversation there, especially after what we seen this past week. How do the general managers go about attacking it this time? This is nothing new that video review would be a topic of conversation for the GMs and executives that are coming to these meetings. How are they going about it this time around? Well, it was a wild week for video review.
Number one, there was the Tampa goal against Winnipeg. I would have loved to have been had access to a wiretap of Kevin Sheffield Day off's phone after that one. I really would have loved to have heard his conversations with the league. You know, there was the weird one in Colorado, Colorado Seattle, where initially they called it an offside. And then they realized that Seattle had shot the puck. And I heard Josh Manson was the player who actually noticed it and was adamant about it.
And then so they had to do with the review a second time. It wasn't a Colorado challenge. It was, you know, apparently the referee went on to the headset and said, wait a second, we better take a look farther back. And they determined it. That was a wild tonight. Never seen that one before. And, you know, there was also the Islander one that Patrick Waw was mad about with a chari in the Pittsburgh zone.
And there were two things they were looking at there. A chari skates on the ice. And I guess the puck hits Rakell stick when Rakell stick is still on side. Like the whole like it was just a crazy, crazy week for stuff. And you know, it's funny. I got a few calls about some of the stuff we said on the pod and some of the stuff I talked about the radio.
I still think that when a peg one should have been no goal. I think it should have been taken off. But one manager said to me, he thinks that the reason it counted was because there was so much carnage in the crease. Like there are so many people in the crease and so many people bumping into hellowbuck that he was like he thought the league looked at it and was like, you know what?
Everybody interfered with hellowbuck here, including his own players. Now I still disagree with that. But that's what he thought the league was looking at. The other thing I was reminded about this week is that when Batman brought replay in, he said he only wanted things overruled if they were dead wrong. I reported it then. I was reminded of it this week is that that was the phrase he used. He used dead wrong. So that is the standard they're trying to adhere to.
And you know, again, people can decide if they agree or disagree. I'm just saying I was reminded of that this week. I also think it's possible. If you go back to when that Colorado Seattle thing happened, it was around the same thing as that Dylan Holloway situation around the same time as that Dylan Holloway situation happened in the St. Louis Tampa game.
So I think it was just a really crazy time. It was it was just a really crazy time and that may have been why some details got missed. And the great news is that Holloway played on Thursday night against Utah. It was I was happy to hear especially when you know you heard his parents were there. Like that's got a brightening for the parents. And I heard the blue like I heard the blues were great with them and took a made sure to take good care of them.
But it was great to see Holloway back in the lineup on Thursday night. So somebody said to me and this was not anybody with the league. This was someone from another team. And they just said that they really think that that was one of the reasons it was just Tuesday night. It was just a crazy night. But never the last call as you said it's been a crazy week for replay. And I think they want to have a conversation about now this meeting is only a three hour meeting.
Like the one that we have in March after the trade deadline is three days two nights. And they really sit down and they have a big conversation. This is just sort of like the mini meeting. There's a lot of reports that are given. And but what they do is they start talking about things. They say, OK, what are the big picture conversations we want to have in March.
Let's throw them on the table. Let's brainstorm and let's start to lay the groundwork. And I heard that one of the conversations they're going to have is. What what do we want replay to be. And so and I don't think anything's going to change this year. I think this will be a post this year conversation. But like like one guy said to me when there's a scrum and somebody does something that they should get a penalty for. Do you want the video review room.
Same to the referees. Hey, you missed this. You should penalize a guy for that. Do you want less. Do you want more. Do you want other things that are not like where do you really want this to go. I think they want to have one big conversation about it. And we kind of have these talks and we've tinkered with the rules and generally I'm the kind of guy who thinks get the call right at the end of the day.
That's the most important thing. But I just think the overall temperature around it. They want to have a they want to have a discussion about it and see where it goes. And I believe when it comes to video review like this will forever be like the morning Ralph morning Sam of the NHL where it's like routine every once in a while, whether it's something that kind of kick starts the conversation again or a slow build.
There will be the need to sit down and discuss in one way or another that fair idea of where do we want to go for video review because you say going back to Gary Betman's line about only when it comes to something that is dead wrong. There's plenty of scenarios over the course of a game where that would apply, but there's also somewhere it's too gray to even allow that ultimate conclusion to come to the forefront like we talk about again that Tampa Winnipeg goal.
You can't you can't I don't think you can arrive to a dead wrong or dead right when it comes to those things like there's too much variation and that's just the nature of this sport it's not an issue with with one thing over another. I believe it's just the nature of how this game is played. It'll never be a perfect science. I suppose it's more so the idea of the sport evolving with the technology with the review angles that are available at any given moment.
But I think this whole idea of seeing where do we want video review to go will always be a part of the game as we move forward. Don't you think? Yes, I mean, there are but I think the key thing is is what the standard is supposed to be don't change the call unless it's dead wrong. I agree. Like I keep going back to that one auto with auto was Seattle last Saturday night. In that moment that was the first auto will go in that moment.
I thought the referee made a hundred percent the right call because he saw that stabbing motion and he's like, nope, that's no goal. And that has been consistent with the way it's been called it had been called before that. And then when they looked at the review, they saw, oh wait, the puck was there and cousins made a legitimate attempt to poke at the puck. And then they overruled the call.
Like to me, that's the way it's supposed to work. The referee sees what he sees. He's perfectly justified in making that call in the moment. I thought the same thing the official did. Then when they looked at it, they're like, oh, you know, you couldn't see it. But this was there. Change the call good goal. Like that's the way it's supposed to work.
You know, the thing that scares me about it right now, just overall is that like we're having all these crazy calls Kyle in October and November. Like these games aren't supposed to matter as much. Just wait till it's February, March, April, playoffs. If this is what we're seeing now. Imagine what we're going to see when the intensity is at fever pitch. Yeah, every year, every year you worry about that, right?
Games with major consequences and video review comes into the equation. How is it all going to shake out? I'm with you 100%. So I think they're going to say to them, what are we thinking here? Long term? What's the future of it? What are we thinking? We'll see where they go.
All right. Yes, we will. And that will lead us to the final thought, which is brought to you by GMC. So Elliott earlier on Thursday, the NCAA Division One Council voted to make Canadian hockey league players eligible for Division One hockey effective August 1st, 2025. This felt more like a formality more than anything else, Elliott, because I mean, we had talked about it on this podcast a couple of times. The momentum that had been building towards ultimately landing in this space.
It seemed like today's news was really a foregone conclusion. It was. I think we all knew it was going to happen. There were some people who got dragged into a kicking and screaming. But at the end, as Thanos says Kyle, it was inevitable. There were a couple of things that really stood out to me here. Number one, coming from the Bacoscus League, the Western hockey league. Don't call it that.
Well, there is a Bacoscus in it. So therefore it is the Bacoscus League. The Western hockey league, Dan Near is the commissioner. He released a statement and there was one line in the third paragraph that really stood out to me. We are thrilled that upon graduation from the WHO, players will have additional options. Now, if I was not a hockey reporter or a media person, I would have gone to law school. I would have been terrible. I would have been miserable. But that would have been my choice.
When you hear that sentence, we are thrilled that upon graduation from the WHO, what does that make you think? It's suggesting that until you fulfill your eligibility in the Western hockey league at that time, players would be able to go to the NCAA if they so wish to do. But a league can implement that, can they? Well, first of all, I would say with my law degree, earned online from a nation with no extradition treaty to Canada, that's exactly what it says to me.
The WHO is putting a stake in the ground and saying, you cannot leave until you've finished your contract with us. Now, I don't know if that's enforceable. I don't know. But I think it's significant. Because one of the things that we've discussed is that this is going to be the Wild West. I don't think people here, if you don't follow NCAA sports over the last couple of years, you have no idea what we are about to get into.
Players are transferring every year. They've got more power than ever. Nick Sabin, the great Alabama football coach, admitted that one of the reasons he was done was because he didn't want to deal with this anymore.
Juno Oriama, who's the great basketball coach, very successful women's basketball coach at Connecticut, he's mad about this. You can find coaches everywhere who are complaining about this. They're saying the players should learn to tough it out. If they don't like where they are after one year, they're just going somewhere else.
To me, it's an over correction. The players used to have the least power. Now they've got a lot of power and they're flexing their muscles. So I think that that to me is the WHOL saying, yeah, we know what's been going on. And we know this is about to come to hockey. This is our stake in the ground. We're saying you can't do this. And we'll find out if that holds water or not. But what it says to me is that these leagues are preparing for chaos.
They have no idea what's going to happen. They have no clue how this is going to play out. I was in London this week at a fundraiser for Western hockey team. And they're sitting there saying some of the people they were saying they're wondering if players are going to play in the CHL.
They're going to go to the NCAA. And then if they don't like their situation there, they'll come back to Canada and play for a U sports team. Like, is that going to be allowed? You can transfer. Like, how is it all going to work? There's all sorts of questions about these USHL teams. How many of them are going to jump to the CHL? There's no question. I was told this by several people today. The CHL is looking at expanding its footprint into the United States.
How would that look for them? What could they do? But they're thinking about it. And maybe the USHL teams are those teams. Maybe they're talking about expansion. Like, someone was saying to me today that what he would look at at the map is Massachusetts. Like, could the Quebec League go into there? You know, someone was saying to me that he's wondering if the CHL awards next year's Memorial Cup to Madison Hat.
Now, look, I don't know what Gavin McKenna's thinking. Please don't put new words in this kid's mouth. But he said that if he was the Canadian hockey league, they would do everything in their power that he wouldn't even think of being tempted of going to the NCAA next year.
Hey, you know you're going to be in the Memorial Cup because Madison Hat's going to have it. Like, all of this stuff is going to be going on. And the other thing they're going to have to figure out is right now, if you're drafted out of the CHL, the NHL teams get to keep your rights for two years. If you're drafted out of the USHL, the NCAA, they get to keep your rights for four years. Well, what happens if you're drafted into one and then you go to the other?
Remember, there was a famous case a few years ago, Mike Van Rijn, where he went from the NCAA to the Canadian hockey league and he got his free agency. And so, and one thing I'd heard, you know, someone told me the NCAA had gone to the NHL and they say, how do you feel about all this? And so, Mike said, we're not getting involved in this. This is your problem. But the NHL and the players association, the one thing that they know they have to sort out is that other situation.
And since the, you know, since the CBA is going to be up after next year and there seems to be a lot of optimism that it can be done this year, there's no question they've already started talking about this. Like, how are we going to deal with that? And what's going to be our plan? Because I can guarantee you this, agents and players, they probably don't want a situation where they give up.
Like, right now, like I said, if you're a CHL player and you aren't signed in two years, you're a free agent. Now, most of the players are all signed. Like, it's almost never a good player gets there. But if you're a player, like in the league says, hey, we want to change that to four years on principle.
Do you argue and say, why would I want to give up two years? Like, so I don't know what the all the answers are here. But there, you know, there's a lot to figure out to me though, that was the most interesting thing is that near statement, possibly written by your younger brother said that that's what stood out to me the most. Wouldn't that be something my little brother, the brains behind Dan near all along would be so proud of them. I am proud of them.
I'm going to buy a good steak dinner for the first NHL player that looks at you and interview and says, is your younger brother trying to make players pass harder to get to the NCAA? Yeah, I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. Well, it's interesting they put they point out that recruiting can begin immediately, but it probably already has begun. No, yeah, was coming in some places.
And I just think of, I mean, you've been quoting some Marvel lines earlier, I'll go DC and think of the line from the Joker and here we go. Like, it is all about to begin an organized like the development path and model is going to completely change here in North America. 100%. It's like I said, it's going to be it's going to be carnage and Heath Ledger deserved the Oscar for that performance. Super hero movies don't often get Oscar consideration.
He deserved it for that one. What a great quote. What a great movie. That'll do it for the final thought presented by GMC. When we come back, it's the thought line. You're listening to 32 thoughts, the podcast. All right, time now for the thought line. 1 8 3 3 3 1 1 32 32 the email 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca.
Elliott before we can move forward with this, we have to back for just a second last podcast. You went after me attacked me for how I begun the interview with Sydney Crosby this past Saturday on hockey night in Canada, those that need a refresher or didn't hear it. Dom, let's refresh the minds of our listeners. Oh, by the way, we were kind of ripping you after the show because you're welcome because you asked Crosby in the post game.
How many times he'd been first star and I thought you knew the answer. Like we were like, what kind of guy asked the question without knowing the answer because he didn't know. And I thought you were going to pop the number right at him. So we were all looking at you and saying, if you're going to ask, you got to know the answer.
Now I by the way, I would like to say for the record, I wasn't the only one ripping you. I want to gleefully point out that there was an entire team of people ripping you. And I am here to say I am not about to run and hide from any criticism. It was warranted. It was warranted. And so the next day, I got an email from Bob Grove in Pittsburgh, who actually is a nice on X. Bob Grove great guy. Great. Yes.
As you know, tracks a lot of historical stuff, stats and other notes about the Pittsburgh Penguin. So he wrote to me and informed us that Saturday night was the 200 and first time in Sydney Crosby's career, both regular season and playoffs that he was selected the first star of the game. How about that? First of all, Bob, thank you. And I'm trying to decide if 201 is higher or lower than I would have expected. So about 10 a season.
And you have to think on the road, even if you're. She's really. He's been playing 20 years such an old man now. Yeah, well, I guess a little bit higher because this he's now entering that this is the 20 of season. So yeah, but still you're you're you're about right. You're you know, you're about right. Wow. So Bob saved me there. Thanks Bob. By the way, I have another one that reminded me that there was there was another note I got from a fan on X, which I'm now looking for here.
We had the conversation last week about Ace Bailey. Oh, yes, the basketball player at records, the basketball a a Spellia records who I've been following now and we're a curse because as you pointed out, he got hurt. So, but have you seen the starting quarterback at the University of Miami? No. Cam Ward. Oh, wow. So I can't find the tweeter who gave me that information, but I'm just shouting it out that someone reached out to me with the name Cam Ward.
And I love it. I think that's great. I will take all of these hockey names playing other sports for $1,000. Please. You got it. Yeah, you need great goal tenning. You need a great quarterback to win. That's awesome. All right. To this week's thought line for each we will begin across the pond in Brighton United Kingdom Brady and Brianna. Hey, Kyle Elliott and Dom.
We're both originally from Kitchener Waterloo, but now live overseas. Love the podcast. We're watching the Jets and Lightning game and Brianna just mentioned how cool it would be if all seven Canadian teams made the playoffs. That got us wondering when was the last time every Canadian team made the playoffs in the same season. The amount of Canadian teams has fluctuated throughout the history of the NHL. And I'm pretty sure it hasn't happened since the Jets came back in 2011. You're right.
It hasn't. It definitely happened back in the original six days, but did it ever happen after that? Thanks for all the awesome work you guys do. Yes. It hasn't happened since 2011. It's been a little while. Can I make a guess? Of course. This is what we're here for. It happened in the 80s when at some point when it was Vancouver, the two Alberta teams Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal and Quebec. I'm going to guess it was like 84 or 86 or something like that. I remember this happening.
You are coming out of the gates hot fridge, 1986. Yes. I quit. I might as well just retire now. That was great. And of course, that was the year that Calgary and Montreal met in the final. Okay. So I remember 16 years old. That was a big year for me. For reasons I will not be explaining on this podcast. What? No, no, I'm not. No, we are not going there. But it was Vancouver play events in the first round that got hammered. Then there was a battle of Alberta. That was the Perry Barrazaniere.
So they met in the second round. I think Calgary beat Winnipeg in the first round. Toronto, well, Montreal, obviously they won the Stanley Cup. Toronto, that was the year they beat Chicago and lost to St. Louis and seven games. And I think if I remember correctly Quebec upset Hartford in the first round. And I think they lost to Montreal. Am I right here?
You were right about Toronto Quebec lost to Hartford. They got swept all right. So the other way around Hartford beat and then they encloed that's right. I'm sorry. Claude Lemus scored the goal in game seven that knocked out Hartford. That's right. That's right. That was a great series. Geez. You remember? Am I right about the other stuff? Yes. Let me see here. Yeah. Calgary beat Winnipeg, Edmonton over Vancouver and then Calgary beats Edmonton in the second round.
Montreal, of course, went all the way. They beat the Rangers in the conference final. Yeah, you were all right there. Toronto over Chicago and then fell to St. Louis. Yeah, I think Toronto was something like 40 points behind Chicago and beat them and swept them in the playoffs back when the that first round is a best of five. Yes. Yeah. Three nothing. And yeah, it was I remember that I again, we're not going there, but I remember those playoffs really well.
Clearly you do. Great. Awesome start. Okay. Next comes from anonymous. Okay. Anonymous from parts unknown. Just had a question regarding what player requirements are while injured. I work for a company that will do everything in their power to get an injured worker back to work on a return to work program.
Or in other words, light duties to keep work safe premiums down. Yeah. I just wondered if NHL players have any job related responsibilities while injured or if the main focus is for them to be doing everything possible to rehabilitate the injury or in sitting around until they are healthy enough to play again. Like I don't know making them go scout another game or fill the water bottles for the boys. Yes. Make work.
That's actually a really interesting question. I you know what I think I like I like the real world attempt at applications here. I think that's very interesting. The answer is they rehab right and the only other the only time they really becomes issues is if it ever gets to a point where the team in the player like the Ryan Johansson situation for example where the team in the player argue about whether or not it there's the players ready to play or the
and there's a dispute about whether or not that's the case right so other than that it is it's just rehabbing and you know the one thing that does happen is for example Jake Mudzen with the Maple Leafs he moved back to California and he was doing some scouting for them. Now they can't force him to do it. He has to want to do it but he is a player who he has done that.
Now there are cases where they can ask a player do you want to do some scouting like Jake Mudzen his contract ended last year with Toronto but I know that he was doing some player development slash scouting I wouldn't even know how to properly describe it with for them but the player has to be willing to do it.
So you can't be you can't say to someone hey if you don't do this you're not going to be able to collect your salary so that's the closest thing I can give you in terms of what you're asking. Great great question whoever you are next Taylor and Laduk hi Elliott and he stops there he just says hi Elliott so this is all you here.
Well you know why there's nobody else even say hello to okay perfect I feel the NHL miss an opportunity with this four nations cup to include all of their superstars since the league is hosting the event they could have been a little more creative with the players from the countries who don't compete on the four teams wouldn't it be cool to say each team was allowed to import players just for this tournament hypothetically what if each team could draft two players not currently in the four selected countries you would think Canada would grab one of the Russian Super
Star goalies would dry side will be the top pick or is that just me being an Euler's Homer thanks for taking the question and I look forward to hearing about your mock drafts.
Well I don't think you're being an others Homer on this one because if there was a draft for players who were not on one of these four countries nobody would be surprised if dry cello was the number one pick like like right now who would beat him maybe like I could see a situation where to say for arguments sake if Canada had the number one pick they might take to sterk it right like that's the only guy off the top of my head I think you you'd even think would be taken over dry
side so I don't think you're I don't think you're being an Euler's Homer there it's perfectly perfectly reasonable. It's a great idea I know why it's not happening I think it's a great idea. The funny thing about this is that I actually really liked the idea of them coming back with you know a team Europe or a team like team North America the younger team that they had.
But the NHL very quickly rejected those ideas this time around they they don't want it especially the under 20 the under 23 team because they're like those guys want to play for Canada or the US and we're not doing that again even though people loved it even though people really liked it and team Europe much rather they didn't initially but they they took everyone's hearts in the tournament and I'm still
mad eight years later that Canada didn't play that didn't play them in a playoff round it would have been an unbelievable game those guys would have come out super motivated to try to be Canada.
But I just don't think they ever wanted that again they don't like it it was country or nobody and you know the thing about Russia is that it's still an issue however people feel about it here in North America I can guarantee you that people in Finland or Sweden the checks are not in this tournament but the fins and the Swedes they feel much more passionately about it than North Americans do.
Okay Taylor thank you for the question we will wrap with Kyle in Nashville. Hello Elliott Dom and Kyle from a fellow Kyle in Nashville. I've been listening to the show for a couple years and I'm really enjoying all the questions making Elliott think of obscure hockey references and players.
I'd like to add my own into the mix do you know who is the only player to have won the Kelly Cup in the ECHL the Calder Cup in the AHL and Stanley Cup in the NHL PS for Kyle are you aware that there is a yearly attempt to break the Guinness World record the largest gathering of Kyle's in Kyle Texas.
It's aptly named the gathering of the Kyle's thanks for all you guys do and keep up the good work yes I am aware actually and when they what is that last year it was I think it last year was late May it almost coincided for each when we were down in Dallas for the Western conference final when the stars are playing how far from Dallas I looked it up I think it was about a four hour drive so a bit of a hike but it would have made for a hell of an off day.
I bet you that is probably the weirdest group of people that anyone will ever see is a whole bunch of Kyle's so I would have taken you to it yes we we embrace the we're in the phenomenal. Trust me I looked into it I promise you I did I would too I think that I actually think that's really good like I put it this way if it comes up again and you need someone to back you up on a broadcast to do ringside for you in a broadcast so you can attend the gathering of Kyle's I will do it.
I will call it like I know I'm scared to work this Saturday. Hey I was a gathering of Kyle's I've heard of this place called Kyle can't work Western conference game seven I got to meet up with all the Kyle's.
Hey priorities. I need to be a part of history I know they fell short like I think they're going to keep trying I think that's really cool I do I think that's I love the idea okay what was the question I can't ask a question the one player to have won the Kelly Cup called her cup and Stanley Cup this one I actually knew I didn't have to look up. Name Kyle. No it's not good one Tom. I mean I know obviously the I know the coach Jared Bednar he was the first coach to do it.
Yep. How recent Stanley Cup fairly recent within the last 10 years. Give me the team. Did he won the Stanley Cup with? Yeah Washington. One eternity later. I would never gotten this without the hint and this is going like I'm going deep deep deep on of the roster. Like I'm going back and I'm looking I'm thinking about like I'm thinking about it like a depth defenseman like I like a Nick Jensen or a depth forward like like a J Beagle. Bang there it is. Is it J Beagle really? It's J Beagle.
I would never have gotten that without the hint Kelly Cup with Idaho in 2007 and two back to back called her cups with Hershey and oh nine and ten. Yeah I wasn't getting that without the hint and then I just started trying to remember all the guys in the roster but you got there. That's a great question. That's a great question. That doesn't count. I needed the hint. The other one before the last time all can teams. I had that one.
The that one I did not have. I need help. Okay Kyle. Thank you for that question. A great way to wrap up actually before we wrap up the thought line Elliott. Earlier this week I went and spoke to a group of journalism students that Ian Mendez who right now is the main PR guys with the Ottawa Senators but for years as you know worked as a reporter and a writer in the Ottawa market that he teaches a journalism program in the city and the end of the conversation
after a was done boring the students to death. He brought up just a suggestion his idea was you and I to do whether it's just a straight in the booth a broadcast of an Ottawa Senators game at some point or manning cast style but like a 32 thoughts broadcast of an NHL game. I thought I bring it up and see what Elliott thinks I would do that why not having you know they're not a time where you were throwing it you did play by play in a pinch for an NHL game.
I did play by play of one NHL game and it was an Ottawa Philadelphia game yes that is true I did do an Ottawa Philadelphia game from Philadelphia. I also did one women's hockey game at the Olympics out of nowhere because a commentator who was supposed to call that game got sick. Like right before the game and they needed that game broadcast and it was I believe it was it was in Italy it was in 2006 and I believe it was a women's quarter final between the USA and Finland.
It was definitely the US and I think the other team from Finland and whoever was got sick right before the broadcast I said look if you need me I can call it and I called it so I think I've called two hockey games one NHL and one Olympics. Got it and there was a time where when you were working ringside didn't surely nage I put you between the benches for a game.
Yeah I did terrible I think I did two games but that he pulled me because I didn't do very well and I admit that one was on me more than him I didn't do as well as I could have. I just remember the one line that you had of there's a lot of bad language down here foul language was foul language is that was one of the reasons I did not get another game after that I have to tell you it's it's pretty dangerous down there I there was one thing that happened.
Between Nathan Horton and Dion Fennoff and you just realized like the level of what things you see down there that you don't often see somewhere else and I saw Horton got so mad at Fennoff and he didn't say anything over the line but I really thought I was going to witness a murder right in front of me.
And I remember just the passion the anger on Thornton's face when that whatever I didn't see what caused it but I saw the reaction and oh man I was like wow to see Nathan Horton this charged up right in front of me. Wow really cool so the potential 32 thoughts cast will keep you posted if there's any developments there down the road but I don't be a fun one to do I'm with you I'd be I would do it. Anytime anytime and people could call in no problem. Yeah intermission thought line.
So thank you to everyone who wrote in again thanks to Griffin Porter for his efforts always in helping curate the list when we come back our interview with Michael Rubin the CEO of Fanatics and Andrew Loha Key the Fanatics Commerce CEO on 32 Thoughts the podcast. Okay welcome back to 32 Thoughts the podcast now you may have noticed early on in this season the logo on the back of the jerseys of your favorite player or favorite team.
It's the fanatics logo is this season is the first of a 10 year agreement that has fanatics as the official uniform outfitter of the National Hockey League fanatics is a name that many sports fans are well aware of for good for maybe not so good.
We had a chance to sit down with Michael Rubin the CEO and founder of Fanatics as well as Andrew Loha Key the CEO of Fanatics Commerce they were very gracious with their time we got through a whole bunch of different topics including some of the concerns you may have about Fanatics the brand they were great in answering all of it and their continued partnership with the National Hockey League and where they hope to take it here now our conversation with Michael and Andrew.
Gentlemen first off we really appreciate you Parkinson time for us here on the podcast today and why don't we just come and address the elephant in the room right out of the gate Andrew you are playing hurt in this interview voice isn't where it normally would be as you're battling through some things so through all of that thank you for still.
Cutting out this conversation with you guys I wouldn't miss it like like you said sometimes you got to play her that's what you do and I'm on it to be here as well I just want to hear Andrew's raspy voice and kind of be able to be.
This might be a one interview about she's asking you answer all the questions so we can listen to his voice the entire time well we appreciate you still through all of that cutting it out so Michael why don't I start with you this question I wonder I mean I'm sure there's a lot of listeners out there that you when they eat.
Here fanatics they think of you know apparel and jerseys but of course the company is so much more than that there's the commerce side also the collectibles and memorabilia side as well and the gaming and betting side to so how would you describe fanatics in the year 2024. Yeah so I feel like a entrepreneurial startup you know our real business to build the greatest digital sports platform in the world and we're just getting started at you know where it's three businesses as you said what is the
finance commerce business that's everything we do with NHL shop and making the hot jerseys and operating the facts that comes site and you know all the parts of the make but then we also have the trading card business and the sports fighting business but really what we want to do is give the sports fan you know a place to
do anything they want to do from a you know we don't really from a digital sports perspective so we want to buy merchandise whether you want to you know trade and buy collectibles bet on sports you really do that all one place and the exciting thing for us is we've been at it for you know we've been at it for a minute but we feel like we just get going okay here's my first question and it's for both of you is the NHL cool.
I mean I grew up in Vancouver on my lifelong canarks fan yes definitively and chose cool. And what I would say about that a child is they have the greatest fans in the world and it's like when you go to you know hockey game you just see such incredible fandom well I want to keep seeing the hockey base grow grow grow like we do it a sport hockey fans are like I mean these are like cult like fans I mean they just love their sport so much that's one of
the things I love about you know being such an important you know part of the hockey ecosystem is there anybody in particular who's getting your phone who sent you a note saying I want this jersey and you thought I like that that's awesome Travis Scott talks about hockey jerseys all the time wow.
So travel travel based on me like you know we should do this for the hockey jersey we should do that Justin did the collab last year for all star game I mean Justin's got I just was with him last week and we were just did something together with time out hockey just so I think people care about people care about the hockey sort of a lot of ways I think it couldn't be the favorite silhouette of any injuries when you think about people so I'm constantly surprised by.
Oh young hip top artist who care about the hockey sweater. So I was looking at Michael the you know it wasn't too long ago that you announced a partnership with a player like Conor Bredard I think he's not the only hockey player that you guys have under the fanatics umbrella is kind of the soul distributor of his officially licensed memorabilia I mean is that just the tip of the ice break here just to
go under the conversation about you kind of growing revenue like the opportunity to do more things with players on the collectible side of things to then maybe ever before yeah look we've always believed that without the incredible players in sports whether hockey or you
know basketball football or baseball whatever is without the incredible players to do what they do do they do a nice on the court on the field you know we don't have a business so we really try very hard to build direct relations with each athlete one by
the end of the day over 3000 individual athlete partnerships and they're really important to us because not only can we expand what we do from a parallel perspective from a memorabilia perspective from a trading car perspective but then you can really you know help those you know incredible athletes you know kind of communicate
better to their fans which is so important to them so we love that part of the business memorabilia is a big and growing part of our business you know Conor is a great example that but we do that with 3000 athletes today and you know I think over time you know we want to work with you know every athlete in the world that that that fans care about and and you know quite
frightly you know you know hockey fans are incredible in sports sports fans the best is nothing but you know opportunity for us OK the jerseys so I spoke to a few people that you know are very big in the world of the world and one of the things on on their end that they were thrilled about the you guys did was to bring back like the true authentic pro as you guys name it those jerseys just like the players where to be available at retail because as you know
it has been easy for those that love to collect that stuff to obtain over the last number of years I know like with those jerseys comes a bigger price and everybody but my first question on the jerseys was about that and why you chose to make the authentic pro available at retail again you know I'll catch that first and you may add on and that kind of
you know you got to listen to your fans and your customers and what we heard from hockey fans is well it's a small percentage of fans that want to buy that authentic jerseys they're really critical part of the fan base and they spoke for like they didn't like what was going on before they didn't like they couldn't buy the same thing that hockey players were kind of playing the game and so you know there were tens of thousands of fans that spoke very
loud and said we want this jerseys back we don't want you know authentic replica main in Asia we want like we want the same thing the players are wearing and you know the other thing we heard you know from players was you know we like most things about our jerseys today
and there were a few things they didn't like the gravity issues with abrasion on the you know on the sleeves and you know kind of things that we get more through what they like the dimples on the top of the tree other than that they were like kind of we like this jerseys so you know kind of make the same jerseys with a few
line of tweaks and so what we want to do was listen to the players listen to the fans and deliver that the reaction you know as I think you know you say it has just been really positive and it's just we've kind of been a little bit more positive with their execution is you know I'll tell you it's it's fun for me to get to go to hockey games and see people you know kind of
skate around in our in our hockey sweater. Listening to fans is at heart of what we do and they fans spoke loud and clear they wanted that authentic and a jersey that has the same craftsmanship the same artist in the way that the players have in the version they wear on the ice and the factory outside of Montreal and saying highest and pick
a back has been making these hockey sweater 50 years and there is real craftsmanship that go into it and there's a some set of fans who who really value that and are excited about it and we wanted to
get a back for everyone and so we were excited to bring that back. Okay and then I'll ask about the premium jerseys to which I guess you know it feels certainly from the the material and certainly the way it's price like very similar to what would have been you know under the previous supplier that was their high end jerseys that was available at the retail
level and to go back to the price point again I mean as as the new supplier coming on again you could have raised the prices we've certainly seen that happen in the past but it's about the same so along with with the look of the jerseys in a lot of ways the prices on the retail side really haven't moved that much as you guys have now come into business was that an important thing for you guys as well.
Yeah I think as part of doing the transition well we didn't want to change things unless the change was really necessary right Michael mentioned some of the abrasion you know slavery enforcement that we did but beyond that you know whether it was the actual jersey template so let supply chain the price to consumers we didn't see a reason to change any
that so we didn't. I look all saying I think you guys are probably attuned to this inflation to real thing you know obviously if you look at you know us not raised the price us kind of taking less March because we really want to do the right thing by the fans I think keeping the prices you know identical from where they had been over the past period of time for that jersey and and really having no inflation was something we just always the right investment to make in the hockey fan.
And I saw an interview with you a while ago where you talked about that every business reviews starts with a scorecard here's our strategy here are the things that we feel matter and that determines how successful you are aren't I'm curious can you take us
through this process your scorecard with hockey in the NHL when you really took it over this year and what kinds of things you have determined have been a success and are there any things that you that you were looking at and saying they have not been a success for us yet.
Yeah absolutely we you know we want to be clear on how we want to drive our business and the way we want to drive the business here at the next commerce is putting in the fan at the center of everything we do and when we think about you know then going through a business or looking at how it's doing everything comes through that prison and filter of how are we doing making the experience of being a fan better.
And we think about that through the lens of our products that we sell first and foremost and so you know we look at what's the quality look like how are we doing with with serving you know that products customers are saying they want how are we doing with products that maybe they haven't even thought about like Lulele lemon we launched with the NHL last week because we heard loud and clear from female consumers we have a huge opportunity to do better with
and there were Lulele lemon is a brand that built terrific product another Vancouver based company and we saw a great opportunity to bring that to fans of the NHL and so you know we start by looking at saying you know how are we doing on product then we say how are we doing on the experience right as you know we run whether it's fanatics.com or the NHL shop or club sites you know how can we make that
the experiential aspect from you know what the website marketing looks like all the way through what what the shipping and delivery experience is like through God forbid if you need it the customer support experience what that looks like we want to look at those things end to end we measure them like crazy and we push ourselves on hey what's good what what's bad and then when we need to go to about it.
I wanted to ask for either one of you like I remember I mean when I was going through high school and and certainly e commerce was coming much more of a thing in the ability to order product online with with much more ease than ever before counterfeit jerseys started to really become prominent you go to games and you saw them a lot I feel and this is only anecdotally I don't have any data on my
that things but I feel over the years there becoming less and less so prominent when going to an arena or just walking around when there is a game going on is that that market considered any sort of threat or or issue on on your front of things you know counterfeit is a real issue that the sports properties and teams and players are always going to fight together with us.
I just had a pretty incredible experience about one hour ago mayor who runs our PR sitting here in my office with me and I just I have two little kids and I got roped into going out for one hour with them they just decided by messy jerseys and I asked how much they were after we
were running by the way at the grove in like one of the nicest you know shopping areas in nice yeah in LA and they said they were 45 dollars for each set and then when I was said to my I said to my family we're going to have to throw those away because actually spot counterfeit jerseys so me the leader of like the sports merchandise in the last hour.
I was stunned by the spirit it was literally crazy like I'm not paying attention I'm on the phone working and literally you know my family picks up two counterfeit tops and bottoms of a messies that sold in the grove in an illegitimate you know retail
environment so I think it's more of an issue you know in the offline environment than it is in the online environment but it's something we have to forever fight there is look there's also an audience that you know she says they want to buy things that's our who's was not not audience but you know it's something that I think the players the leagues the teams they take it really seriously it's still an issue and it's one that I think we've made more progress online than we have
offline of them being completely transferred Michael you had a great quote a few years ago about your friendship with Drake and you said you got to be built for social media you got to be tough you got to take shit from people what I said to Drake I honestly believe this is that you can't get to where he's got to and not have people coming for you.
You know a company is biggest fanatics it takes a chair of criticism there's people who oppose things online I'm always curious how do you decide what criticism matters to you and what you listen to as opposed to what you say I cannot get distracted or bothered by that.
Yeah well look I have an obsession so when I wake up every morning at four or five o'clock in the morning before I go to bed late I'm always looking to see what people are saying Andrew is exactly the same way I think we need to be good at is hearing seen everything and then figured out where you think fans are right and look obviously I think more than ever on social media there is a lot of you know just you know there is a lot of hate in social media and we kind of joke that
actually we need to rate and I'm sure you guys know I mean you say well you just there's heat everywhere you go but there's also a lot of really good feedback and I think you know sports fans like we're so lucky unfortunate that we work in a business where fans are so passionate this is not like going to Amazon and getting your you know to in the paper you're to you know your truth
this is about you know reference your favorite team your your favorite player and so for me I'd say we're probably we pay attention to it more than you might think and we really try to figure out all the times that there are things that we can learn bro for them by the way a lot of times there is good information in social media and so I think we're pretty good at separating
what's real and what's not and I think act you know I'll tell you one of the mistakes we made as a company up until Andrew joined the CEO you know we weren't in you know we have three businesses say right we have a CEO of the collectibles business which is trading cards to see over the gaming business which I like sports betting and the CEO of the
commerce business which is Andrew Andrew now even though we're going to ship you know we're going to serve 40 and 50 million customers online this year another 25 million customers in store in every so we're going to serve you know 70 to 75 million transactions this year you know we put until Andrew became CEO we didn't really talk to our detractors who had
negative things to say about us now we actually we love doing that I do that all the time Andrew does that all all the time and it makes us a better company and often when you hear is just from really good authentic fans that I think they want us to know or maybe they have this information maybe they've mentioned that they're same things we're not seeing so I think listening to your customers is the most important thing you can do I think there's a lot you can you know
file is really good at it and then we know we got to be good at someone just says you look if someone says hey you know your stuff's too expensive like look at authentic Jerry's they were talking about that's an expensive Jerry's it's what the players were someone says hey we love is too expensive that's that's up to bothers us
because we know we're pricing where the market is and you know we think with thoughtful about that you know and you know someone says hey I hate this t-shirt because they're buying a 1999 t-shirt which is the opposite and what I'm talking about I mean look we we saw a couple million products today fanatics so we saw from opening price point t-shirts of 1999 to a really expensive t-shirt that could be $120 because there's some special collab with a designer or an artist and everything in between
so I think what we try to do is really listen carefully and whatever you see things that they're right about use that to improve a part and by the way there's a lot of things that we've been pushed on where I think fans have made it better
Well on that note Michael the idea of criticism and fans pushing to be better I mean I'm sure most people have seen some of you know the stories that that have gained traction the minority stories that have gained traction of order errors the photos that circulate around
on social media I mean there was the whole or deal with the MLB uniforms back in the spring of course we later learned that was a Nike issue not a fanatics one but I just wonder like we're on the cusp here now of the holiday season people are going to be looking for buying gifts for the hockey fan in their life
what would you say to them that may still be skeptical of the fanatics brand so the first thing I'd say is how much we appreciate every fan one by one how much we really care how much we obsess the sweat over everything we do and by the way if we do make a mistake we're always going to make it right for the fan I'll tell you you know our error rate has never been lower than it is today but if you ship you know 50 million orders online you can do it
on the 25 million orders of the store things will go wrong and that's where you say like you know I'll give you an example we sold last year I think 5 million units of Eagles apparel and Eagles products and we had 36 t-shirts that went out where they with a tilted number for J for J. L. Hertz and you know my answer to our organization was guess what that's 36 orders to be screwed up and we got to take that very seriously so you know people expect perfection they're spending the whole time
for perfection they're spending the hard earned money to get perfection and so it's our job to deliver that doesn't mean nothing's ever going to go wrong absolutely not because that would be living in a fanatics like does it mean every time we make it however we got to figure out what was the record cause how do we fix it and then how we always make it right for that customer I can tell you I don't think you ever see customers saying when we make something when we screw something up then we don't immediately fix it we get all over but if someone wants to you know kind of give us a hard time all we can do is act as a
kind of make it right try to make them happy and do the right thing by then but I'll tell you we care about every customer every order we sweat every detail and look the baseball issue you refer to which you know I think you know what you're standing in his
accurate was that you know we were kind of we made the juries for eight years you know Nike who's a very innovative company you know kind of you know innovating something that did work and you know we were very very fortunate we worked together with Nike and together with baseball to say hey
fans don't like this and players don't like this and we revert it back to the juries that we made for the previous eight years that everybody liked Chris we listen to fans because they were right okay now some companies could go out and say you know what let's just fix the problem that's it we actually used it to make our company
substantial better because we literally said we're going to use that to build a brand purpose and kind of an arborant purpose is to relentlessly enhance the fan experience and to do that everywhere we can and so I think even though you know we were you know we took a lot of you know we took a lot of abuse over something where you know we were kind of doing is directed here's the good thing it means a better company and I'm proud of that and you know we
learned we got better from it so you got to take everything that goes wrong brother you're playing on the icing you know you screw something up you can't go back and moat you got to go back and say okay how do we be better how do I make sure we're in the next game that's that we have them you know even though you were talking about using the internet
high school unfortunately for me we didn't have the internet when I was in high school to probably sell sounds even though Andrew sounds like he's like 90 uh thank you actually in his early 40s I'm doing this for the rest of my life it's my it's my dream it's my passion and you know we're going to make sure we you know
look we want to build the most beloved sports company the world and anyone who we have it's high as far as you know if we let anyone down on the past I'd say I'm sorry give us a chance and we're going to make sure we do everything to make you the happen span in the world.
That's awesome stuff. Andrew I wanted to ask you the NHL is notoriously conservative is there anything that they have said to you you can't do or anything that you feel you have to push them past to say hey if we're involved we're going to do this even if initially you're uncomfortable with it. The NHL has been a great partner for us you know when we look at launching the jersey back at the draft.
We pulled that forward we did some we did some incredible things in partnership with them at the spear which was which was really exciting when we did Lulu last week.
We launched that with players but also their significant others which really hasn't been done before and the NHL has been a terrific partner for us in really finding new ways to be innovative to reach new fans to bring the game to life because it is such an amazing game I think they're they're really excited to find ways to grow the families.
I was just going to ask I was reading about the commerce vertical commerce try to get better at understanding of that and that's kind of like you guys adjusting to the ebbs and flows of kind of a given sport how does that all work. People really don't you know if we knew who is going to wait each game and when is each game what players would emerge is when to you know do poorly you know we probably would be doing this so the reality is the way the business used to work is you know reach out
to the old license sports merchandise or hockey merchandise try to predict you know nine months in advance what they want to buy a major is what they want to buy a t-shirt at least a hat and that worked out and so that's that's what is category is what is very hard to properly imagery what we've really tried to do is you know you know kind of create a supply chain that can react to the needs of winning the losing teams and players that emerge and do poorly on a daily basis I think we've made a lot of progress I think
to be you know completely blood we're much better than anybody else but we're not near good enough if that makes sense like if you look at you know we operate today you know you brought up you know kind of we make all the that the baseball products from Nike same thing for football same thing for college we've grown those businesses astronomically but we still want we still run out of things all the time you know in football
and CJ strong that really hot we were at a CD a striker is for too much because no one thought the use in Texas we're going to be good and by the way a fan doesn't want to hear that we sold eight times more Jersey's this year than last year they just want to know what I want to be when get it to me so I think we made a lot of progress we've got a lot of work still to do with all
cuts of the brief beat commerce is really all about how we vertical so we can you know really fulfill a fans needs in real time for whenever they want I think we're so much better than we used to be we got so much works don't know what is your favorite NHL Jersey Andrew you first I like the Vancouver connects Jersey but specifically that one with the stick in the ring that makes the see
nice well I'm fully I got to go with the new fanatics flyers Jersey I'm going to say a lot of my city I'm going to stay a lot of my company and say I could have got all school something retro from Mitchell Ness but
you know I'm going to say it's it's it's the new fanatics flyers Jersey I will tell you one of the great things about hockey jerseys like they're pretty cool you asked about being cool before like it's amazing I'm going to have my friends that are big artists this world like you know I love you know like I love the hockey
sort I love the Jersey silhouette so I think you know I feel like you know right now hockey Jersey probably getting cooler than they've ever been so it's great to kind of take care of that authentic fan but also have something it's kind of you know get hot cool and I think there is a lot of coolness to hockey
that's great to hear it's great to hear now so the last question I have for you Michael is I was talking to an owner in the NHL and he said you did what a lot of them do in reverse they they wait their whole lives to get into the club and they get their ownership whether it's partial or they become a majority owner of a team and they hold on to that forever because it's been their dream
you got into the club and you gave him it up for this and what he said to me is there are not a lot of people in the world who dream about being sports owners who would do what you did and he was curious to know why did you do it it's a great question I knew exactly where it was going when it started when the when the first few words came out of your mouth and look what I'll tell you is I love so much what I do
and I do this 17 hours a day seven days a week I probably frustrating and I know a lot of people around me because it's my it's my work it's my hobby it's my love it's just it's like I'm so passionate about I feel really lucky to do it you know I think when I bought you know I was the third largest owner of both the sixers and the Devils and I did that in 2011 you know subsequently bought the Devils in 2013
you know I did that until um pranatica size where the leagues had rules that we couldn't be in compliance with whether it was you know you can't take a bet on your own team you can't have an individual deal with an individual player and it just became you know we're fanatics in the early days I think benefited from my team ownership
like my ownership in the six and Devils kind of helped me you know a lot of ways you know kind of for a business development perspective broke fanatics in the early early days by a few years ago was in the way it was you know getting away by my certain owners would be like hey I love you
but like you know I don't want you talking to my players it's awkward you know if there was just there was a lot of complexity it just if we really got the way for that so when you say to me what's like the ultimate dream to create fanatics and again you know
I watched the movie Nike Air when it came out about a year or two ago and I remember thinking to myself I remember Google it filled light and saying you know he's 85 I think I was 50 at the times of me he's probably got 35 years on me unlike what I can do with fanatics you know hopefully I live that longer longer
when I get to a fanatics over the next you know you know hopefully you're part of the centuries pretty exciting to me and I think that for me is the biggest dream like I love the like when I finish this interview when I go look at my phone or there'll be you know 10 messages and six will be good for will be bad and that's like that's entrepreneurial is my like that I like this challenges and I like you know that's all I learn every day that's how I grow
every day and you know whether it's looking at social media at five o'clock in the morning or midnight and you see you know good things a bad things you figure out how to be better it's like that's what I like doing the best so I think ultimately own
the team is really interesting and you know I was probably most known for you know my role in the field up in 76ers and we never got done we never never got out of the second round of the championship and I can say that to be failure every year every year that you know when the championship which was every year is above the team we felt okay make no mistake about that but for me the chance to build this into the most important company sports
over the over the you know over the next you know over throughout the century to you know build one of the most important companies in the world like that's just dreamy to me and you know I'm a business guy first I was always everyone knows this I'm like one of the least 48 East athletes and planted art I just two pairs of the doctor you know I wasn't born with you next and so like you know like you're going to
win your good at I'm not I'm not a good athlete you know you know I was never good student but you know I kind of I love business I love work in you know kind of living out my dream and so you know for me it was an easy decision it wasn't hard it was easy you know sports ownership is in the way of
the way of the world and I think you know we're the early part of the first period here and so I'd say you know people just get to know us and look to see what we do over the next decade I think we're going to build a beloved brand and one that sports fans you know throughout the world are going to love and we're just getting started you know we've got a lot right we've got a lot wrong but you know we're just getting going and last one for me quickly we talked about didn't change much
but at some point over the course of this agreement will fanatics put their stamp on the look the design of NHL sweaters it's a great question and the answer is of course we're going to animate the jersey but we're going to do it with the players we're going to do with
fans I'm going to do it in a very collaborative way and if there's one thing I think you could say you know that we learn through you know you know the ground of last year you better get you better when you're changing the jersey you better get everybody super of up to make sure they love not like you do it and you know you can be you can be we can think of acts the most incredible copy of the world but we better do that partnership with everyone that matters terrific Michael Andrew
Andrew appreciate you grind in this one out but both of you thank you so much for your time this was was really great to hear from you both what's your thanks for having us we should laugh a little bit hey dry got a you push this fear I like to follow up with you got seven more you got to stay you got seven more yeah I think guys I can we count you with three on one with Andrew and just like we got this brass
we're sounding about to die on the spice in the ribs by hockey player going very fast and he's now you know ready to be put down with something but no wrong we're honored to be with you we appreciate it we we love you guys do we're huge fans of you guys and we look forward to speaking to you again in the future oh thanks very much really appreciate okay yeah we hope Andrew feels better soon and yeah he was a trooper getting through that
interview despite clearly not being at a hundred percent so thank you again to Andrew and Michael Rubin and and fanatics for helping make that interview happen thank you to drum shrimadie for all the work he did on our end of things
and making all that come together that'll do it for this edition of 32 thoughts the podcast a reminder this weekend so the Calgary flames play in Buffalo on Saturday at one o'clock eastern 11 a.m. mountain that can be seen nationally on sports net hockey night in Canada this weekend
usual hockey central Saturday getting underway at 630 eastern 330 Pacific two early games this week all Canadian match of Montreal in Toronto and Ottawa is in Boston the return of Linus all mark to bean town the night cap Edmonton and Vancouver their first meeting after that incredible seven game series this past spring we hope you enjoy all of it and we'll talk to you again on Monday