Hello! Hey there! Happy Thanksgiving! Happy Thanksgiving! It's Thanksgiving and... 30 dirty and dying? Pass the cranberry sauce! We're having mashed potatoes! All the turkey looks great! Thank you for loving me! Thank you for being there! Everyone's
thanking! the whole world's thanking you thanking us for thanking you kill the turkey i've been watching non -stop recently i'm on a big bobs burgers cake i'm a big bob burger fan me too i love it who's your favorite linda i think linda i also really love louise she's great yeah and there's something really amazing about bob just going oh my god i did such a good impression welcome to Thanksgiving episode of 30 During
and Dying. It will probably have a little less singing than the Thanksgiving episodes of Bob's Burgers, but we will do our fucking best. We can always make something into a sing -song. I'm sure we can. It's gonna be a little harder today, though, because we decided... We decided to do a real talk about family. So sometimes on Thanksgiving, we've done like games and things for people to play along with. But we've done
a lot of games recently. So if you're more into listening to that on your holiday, we've got that for you to just listen to other episodes, in addition to this one. We thought this would be a good one because we're doing a real talk about going no contact and cutting people off. And sometimes that happens with family members. And that can be hard for the holidays. Yeah, it's the holidays. It's Thanksgiving. Christmas
and other winter holidays are coming up. So if you are someone who has gone no contact or you're considering going on contact, this is a relevant topic for this time of year because you're probably dealing with the I don't want to say the fallout, but like, it's not that it's sometimes it doesn't feel that different when you're just going through your life on a random Tuesday. But when it's the holidays and holidays are known to be family oriented, it can be a struggle to kind of navigate
that. this is going to be part of it like like what holidays look like from this point on if you've always had holidays with family members that you're not having a part of your life anymore so uh we've both had our experiences with going no contact and cutting people off whether it's family friends whatever And I do think as you get this one of those topics where with our real talks, we try to think about things that have shifted or maybe the dynamics have changed as
you're getting into this stage of life. And I think this is certainly one of those because you're kind of settling down into your own life and family or whatever. And figuring out how much of like, your young life, your childhood, it can be hard to figure out what you want to carry on with and what you want to not. because it's easy to just go along to get along, but maybe you don't want to do that anymore, you know? This is usually when those kind of decisions
start to come out. So we thought we'd talk about it. So happy Thanksgiving. I maybe wouldn't recommend playing this during dinner. Or maybe do and maybe it can get a conversation you can just leave. Yeah, that's true If you really need a reason to fucking bounce, I guess you could just play this loud on a Bluetooth speaker. Loud and proud.
Yeah. But I mean, honestly, if this is maybe one of your first holidays or thanksgivings after going no contact and you're questioning your decision and you feel a little weird about it, maybe this will help, I don't know, make you not feel so alone and normalize some of the things that you've been thinking about to make this decision. So it's definitely something that we
have experience with. So we're just trying to kind of, you know, talk about it, spread some information about it, not, I mean, we'll use sources and things, but also just our own experiences and what we know. And maybe this will help somebody just not feel so alone. They're not feel so like crazy. Yeah, guilty. And like, you're the crazy one for even considering this or doing this if you're going no contact with someone. But first, first, we're gonna have a little fun. And we're
gonna go back in time. All right, so it is 2013 2010s. Yep, quite a decade. It was my deck my like time in college, like ending high school and going into college. So it was near the end of my college. Gotcha. But yeah, so like young adulthood, having some fun. You know, I met Mike. That's fun for you. Yeah, I didn't. I mean, I met him probably probably I didn't meet my I'm sure he came to movie theater. So 2013 was actually
the year that I left the movie theater. Because I graduated high school and went into college. So I was back for like holidays and breaks and stuff for the first year. And then after that, I don't think I came back. So I probably did meet him, but I probably didn't get to know him until a little later. Yeah, and we did Mike and I like came to your college. That's true visit. But I think that was like after I stopped coming back. I think so. I feel like that was 2014 or
2015. Even maybe. Yeah. I was with somebody else, a boyfriend and I was not with that person in 2013. Okay, because you were with that person we visited. Yes, because we went to a bar. It wouldn't have been in 2013. I don't think we traveled together at that point. Yeah. I mean, probably not, right? No, not at the beginning. No. So yeah, in 2013, I was dating someone else from the movie theater, actually. Yeah, I have a picture on my social media that I went back
and found where I tagged this person. Because I don't think anybody knew at this point. Well, no one knew until it was over and it got weird. Where I was in a hot topic, and I found a mask of the... I think they're called the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who. Never watched it. I didn't either, but he was really into it. There's something about a telephone booth box. They time travel. And there's different doctors, big changes. I mean, are we Doctor Who? Like, we time travel.
Yeah, we're back in time right now. We cry a lot. I think you're an angel. Thank you. You're welcome. I did cry today. Of course you did. But no, they were like statues or something. I don't know. But it was a mask. And I put it over my face and posted it and I tagged him. But that's actually how I found out that I was blocked like several years later. It's going back and it's no longer Yeah, it's just his name. And I was like, spent like 10 years. But yeah,
so I was on the social medias. I have some posts Alright, so one thing I can say for sure is bitmoji was fucking killing it. I have a Thanksgiving one Look at me cute ass little pilgrim. I also have one that says I'm definitely calling in sick today I was I posted a bunch about how I was sick. Oh my god. We were just sick sick sick sick I have this one that I have no idea why I posted this. I love my family. I'm really lucky to have such great support and love in my life.
Just a thought of life. Smiley Faith. I posted, I really need a day between Saturday and Sunday. Me too. Now more than ever. I also posted one that I'm like, I want to punch myself in the face because it's, God, I need a vacation. Bitch, shut up. No, you don't. I was fucking 19. My life was a vacation. This was before I had my breakdown. So you were still killing it. Yeah, I wouldn't what did I need a vacation from? Honestly, other than like my childhood, which I got because
I moved away. Yeah. Now I need a vacation. Now I need five days between Saturdays. You know, week and week. Yeah. Oh, I also acted in a haunted house. I think I saw I think I went to it. Yeah, I acted in it for two years. So 2013 would have been the second and last year. I don't remember. I think it was the second year that I went to it. I don't think you went when I was doing it.
You don't think so? No, I don't think so. Oh. Um, but I did I acted into the year before and then I actually came back from college to act in this because I really enjoyed doing it. They were great. I was a so this the second year I would have been they put me in the blood room. Nice. And I was in a like a white hospital gown and I was going blood. And I was in like a like a bunk bed, for lack of a better word, and I would kind of like, reach out or like throw myself
out of the bunk bed. And I really fucked myself up a little bit. I was committed. Mike has bruises all over his arms. Yeah, I was fucked up. Like, I remember they like the first year especially, because they always give you like bruises around your eyes. And they did that kind of stuff. But after the first couple days, I didn't need any more makeup. I was just fucked up. I was like, I'm bleeding. I feel like 2013 was the start of well, I always made stupid posts. Absolutely.
But I meant like my jokes. Oh, yeah. But I put I wonder if caterpillars know they're going to fly someday or they just start building a cocoon like oh my god, why am I doing this? My favorite thing you ever posted. I love it every time you say it. Our friend from the movie theater, Dan. posted a link to one of those onion articles, those satire articles, and it was too meat like on my timeline because I think we were making
fun of this movie. But it was poor bastard who just wanted to see After Earth is really taking some shit from a theater employee. I love that. I said, I say this a lot. But it's seriously crazy to think about how much has changed in a single year. To look back at this time last year, who I was with, what I made a priority, I'm just lucky to have so many people in my life who care about me, support me, and push me through everything. I'm seriously almost always happy
now. I'm never going back. And I didn't. No, you didn't. Not really. Not, not to that. I mean, you weren't ever quite as insufferable as you were before you met Mike. Yeah, it's some some fun like guest appearances, but it was never that bad again. I will say there was the when you were Joshua You were fine, but I really hated
that time. I think cuz I didn't like him Yeah, I always thought he was a fucking weirdo not because of you like I knew him godspeed But like I'm waiting cuz like I still have I still have him on Instagram So like I'll see like when he posts that like I never I'm not gonna I don't delete people I do immediately I don't speaking of cutting people off I delete people on the internet and on in real life I don't you're dead to me even if like nothing happened see and here's
the thing though like He didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, but and like I still like cared about him I just knew that it wasn't yeah like between us and it wasn't gonna work and I was gonna treat him poorly it was all me and like cliche as that sounds. It's not you, it's me. It literally was. Yeah, and I was mature enough. But to be fair, he to cut it off. It was weird. I would have been really unhappy if he would have ended up with him. Just like I would have never offered
to like double date. We never have. No, but like if Mike comes over and hangs out, if we go do like, I don't I don't worry about that at all. If you were still with Joshua, I would be like Justin, just just like lock yourself in a bedroom, you're gonna make him cry. I would make him cry. You know what I mean? Mike can hang. Well, Joshua
cried at the drop of a hat. I'm sure of it. Anyways, anyways, but no, I like to I like to help people and the one time I didn't and the one time I was like, maybe we could be friends again someday. They blocked me. So and I don't even understand why like nothing happened. They've locked me
years later. I don't know, man, because we had talked a few times like not hit a you know like rekindling kind of way but just chit chat or like commenting on posts nothing flirty at least to me it wasn't yeah um but then after that i was blocked and i don't know why the world may never know no anyways 2013 i posted um here are 10 things that most people don't know i love this i'm sure we've done this before but i want to do it again tell me the things okay i want
to see if i know them about you number one Okay. Or if they're still true. I find this extremely hard to do because I feel like I'm a very open person. You are. Two, I don't wear makeup. That's also true. And I know that about you, though, because I can see your face. Three, I take baths, not showers. Okay. I do prefer baths. I don't quite fit as I used to. A little bit more difficult because I'm like this, but also the bath at grandma's when I lived with grandma was significantly bigger.
Well, that was like an older house those baths and it was it wasn't a bath shower combo. It was just a bath. Oh, I got you. So like it was a larger bath. So I was all about the bath. I prefer here's the thing. I take way more showers. But to me, it's easier to like just hop in the shower. Yeah, to clean yourself and then leave. Yes, I love to take a bath. Yeah, and I can also take a very efficient bath. Like I can take a bath almost as quickly as I can take a shower.
Once I'm in there, but I like to relax. I like the bubbles, I like it to be scalding hot to where my skin is red. It steams. It steams. If I'm not sweating, I'm not having a good time. If it doesn't look like I am cooking myself, like there's steam coming off and I'm sweating and I'm suddenly rotisserie chicken. It's not a good bath. Yeah, but I actually said this the other day to someone I was like, I love the idea of getting in a bath and just relaxing and chilling
and I will do it. But I can't stay in there for very long because I'm just like after like five or 10 minutes. I'm like, oh, I'm in there for like an hour. See, I used to do that until it gets cold and I'm uncomfortable. No, I constantly
like read. Add hot water. Oh, yeah, I'll do that, too But I just find myself I used to do that, but now it's like I enjoy it I like it But if I try to just like take a bath for the hell of it after I've been in there for a few minutes I'm like I could go Yeah, and then I do I'm just reading or tick -tocking I I read some but then even after that I'm like man I would love to
just get out and get into bed. Yeah So anyways, um number four I'm honestly not looking forward to quitting movie theater when I find a big girl job. Seriously, you loved it. I loved it. And I'm so and I still think about it to this day. I still have dreams that I'm working there. I'm not gonna lie. I love that for you. Five and I hate that I even said this. Okay, I almost don't want to say it. Say it. Despite what I say. I don't mind country music deep deep down.
It's not bad, Courtney. I like the country pop. y 'all alternative yeah yeah or the or the crap the country rap um i hate that i said this i hate that i said all of this yeah me too number six one day i would just like to be a stay at home mom we literally just had a conversation about you getting your uterus sucked out so that's insane um i don't oh my god i want to kill myself from this okay I'm the type of girl that would want to play Call of Duty or other games like
that. Liar. Duty. Are you shitting me right now? Breaking news, she's not like other girls. I'm not like other girls. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. She wears short skirts. I wear t -shirts. I mean, I did. I never, like, wore short skirts. I was too fat. Does that make you special? No. Maybe fat. Although I did, there was a Call of Duty game, I think, that I played. And it was like zombies or something. I've no I've never played it and I never intended to either. So I did play
that. I was never that kind of poser. Whatever. I'd rather wear pants over a dress or skirt any day. Who says I can't wear my converse? See, here's the thing though. Now, I'd rather wear skirts and dresses because I don't want to wear pants. Here's the thing. I'm not going outdoors. So no pants here. I mean, I'm wearing pants today, but I regret it. The sun is so stupid. I can't wait. This will be the finale. No, there's two
more. Okay, well... Nine. I love the smell of ground beef when it's cooking in the skillet. I smell like beef. I smell like beef. Okay. And then ten. I creep better than the FBI. You fucking do. I do. Like, if you want a number, just like my status and I'll give you one. I want five. Give me the number five. A combo meal. Okay, so... Billboard list. Blurred lines. Oh shit.
I know you want it. Look, that's it's a terrible song But it's also very fun if you don't think about what it's saying it is It's a it's a it's a it's catchy. Yeah, and I hate that But I also when it came out didn't even think about it, you know No one did I we did a whole unit on in one of my gender studies classes. I was like the fuck This is about oh my god Is this fucking play about us? I also heard that in the making of the music video, the girl who played the person,
he was really fucked up too. That doesn't surprise me. I mean, allegedly, whatever, but that doesn't surprise me. Get Lucky by Daft Punk. That was pathetic. But I know... I'm up all night to get some. I'm up all night for good fun. I'm up all night to get lucky. Came out in 2012, but the Taylor Swift song, I Knew You Were Trouble. I knew you were trouble when you walked in. Shame on you. I don't know. I know the goat. To places you've never been. That was one of my favorite
memes. Yeah. That was still top tier. We Can't Stop. We can't stop. And we won't stop Also wrecking ball I came in like a wrecking ball I never hit so hard in love That song like really fucks with her like she barely sings it now What was about wasn't it about her like marriage and stuff? Yeah, I get it He couldn't accept her for who she was. I don't think so either. He was always trying to make her be less Don't ever let anybody make you be less Even family Exactly. Should
we just go into it? Because that was a good segue. It really was. Hey, thanks for listening to 30 dirty and dying the show for millennials by millennials. We get real about chronic illness, burnout, nostalgia, and why we aren't exactly thriving. If that sounds like you join us every Thursday for new episodes. Now back to the show. Today we're talking like cutting people off going no contact and You know, I think one thing that I'd start out with is just saying that I don't think it's anything
that anyone takes lightly. I think sometimes because it's becoming more in like the the everyday conversation now. But I feel like people maybe from past generations who are who think it's fucked up because you should you can't cut them. They're your family. They're your mom. They're your dad. Whatever. I think their thought is that you just suck it up. Having a temper tantrum. Yeah. And that you're mad. in my experience, that's how no one does it. Yeah, to go from just
like, I'm not happy. And maybe avoiding a little bit to going full blown, no contact, like that's a decision to make. And there's, there are a lot of steps that go into that. So it's, it's not something that people do lightly, I don't think. Yeah, I don't, I personally, well, I've only gone like, absolutely no contact with one person. Okay, because they were terrorizing me. Yes. And this was not a family member. It was not a family member. Other people I have just
stopped making the effort. Right. Therefore, we are not talking. Yes. If they reach out to me, I will most likely respond. Right. But I'm not being the sole communicator like I was. Yeah.
Therefore, I'm no longer talking. Right. See, I've got no contact with several people like a like a large group of family that I feel like is toxic and not okay and I did that when I was like a teenager and basically it was just me because we weren't like close but I was just I made a decision I was like I do not want I don't want this influence in my life yeah so I blocked as many people as I possibly could from everything and was like don't give them
my number don't talk like I don't want to have anything to do with them and It hasn't really been a big deal. Like, as far as specific people, I did not do that again, go no contact until I was an adult, and I have no contact with one of my parents. Not my mom, so. But that, again, was a decision that was several years in the making. You know, that was not something that was done lightly. And most recent. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And it never had a good relationship. always kind of knew that was how it was going to go down, but delayed it for a long time. And part of it was, you know, my parents were together, my parents were not together together, they were very off and on. But then it really became more about like, as much as I knew certain things about my dynamic with my dad, it was really to make it to make it that severe was not something I did lightly, even though I never really questioned
That it should be done. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. You know, I mean, yeah, it makes sense Like I knew it would happen, but there were parts of it that were hard. I mean, it's it's your dad Yeah, like it's still difficult to like cuz you you want it to be better Yeah, but at a certain point you have to accept people for who they are Yeah, and as much as I wanted this Parental figure in my life that was not him. Yeah, like it was I couldn't having a dad
and having this dad, you know what I mean? And I the way I think about it is like, especially when it's like a family member or a close family member, like a parent or sibling or whoever is if they were anybody else, it would be easy. Yeah, well, it's, it would be it wouldn't, it
wouldn't be looked down upon. Yeah, if it was a friend or a or a significant other or like not if it was anybody else and they Behaved us this certain way that makes you feel like this treated you this way whatever your reasons are. No one would say oh my god, but They'd be like
I totally get it. Yeah, you shouldn't have them in your life Yeah, but because it's family you had some shared genetic material in there and all of a sudden it's like but you shouldn't and it's like I try to think about it at this point after after having some experience with it is like That shouldn't matter. I Understand it making it a bigger decision. Yeah, sure But once you have gone through all the steps of deciding if it's if there's anything else to salvage If there's
not that shouldn't matter. Yeah, I don't know. What what are your thoughts about? You said you had one good experience with it. I would good well, I was full circle bullied and harassed Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about how you made that decision being it? Not a family member and I know you need to be vague but be vague use different names. Whatever So, it was literally my best friend. Well, one of my best
friends. You guys were really close. Well, technically, I am definitely no contact with one of them, not making an effort for the other. Yeah, but this person, I remember you guys were very close. Yeah, I lived with her. Yeah. So, it was just like a flip. Yeah. So quick, because, and like... And I feel like I didn't even handle things poorly. I think I did a pretty good job. Like, if it were a couple years before, I probably might have reacted poorly to it. Yeah, but because
like, we were adults at that point. Yeah, like, like if this were like high school friendship, it would have been a whole nother story. But like, I feel like I actually handled things pretty well. But yeah, so like, we lived together, I moved in with her and her fiance at the time. I remember. And I knew that they fought a lot. And I was just like, look, if I move in, and something happens, right? I will be stuck, because
it's his place. Right. Not hers. Right. And she was like, don't worry about it, it's gonna be fine. I'm like, okay, because like, I didn't pay a whole lot to live there. Right. I remember you. So I such a long story and I'm going to try to shorten it as best as I can. plot twist. They broke up. No. And another plot twist. I stayed. Yeah, and she suddenly was offended. I liked him. Yeah, like he wasn't a horrible
person. No relationships end. Yeah. And she Like, I remember when they would fight, like I would hide in the stairwell to like listen and sometimes they brought me up and I'm like, Whoa, like I was the child, right? I'm like, don't pull me into this. I'm not like, what about Courtney? I'm like, I don't fucking know, man. But no, so like, it was a little awkward at first with me and him, but then like, we made it work. Like it was fine. We were just roommates. It was fine.
And like, because of the, they were roommates, because the situation that I was put in, I wasn't going to be a dick to him. Like I live, it was his house and I live there and I needed to make it okay until I could figure out where I could go. And I will say, I didn't know, I mean, I met him. I don't know him, you know, but just, it was cool of him to not be like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, no, he was nice about it. Yeah. And understanding of like, and I appreciated
it. So, you know, if you don't have beef with him. Why make yeah, and I'm not a vegetarian so I ain't fucking scared of him So yeah, so I was going to be nice to him yeah, I wasn't gonna be a dick so at one point I Had liked one of his statuses. Yeah on Facebook and Shit hit the fucking fan Just petty shit. Just petty shit. And then it just like turned. And right, I think before that happened, she started posting with an ex of mine. Waldo. Waldo. Okay. Where is he?
Where is Waldo? Who fucking cares? Um, and Waldo, which, which was really funny to me, because when I was talking to Waldo, she would talk so much shit about him. At this point. I was long gone. Because I remember this and you like you didn't give a shit that they got together. No, I don't care. You know, weren't like, I mean, I know you weren't together, but you weren't like together. No, and at this point, I was back with Mike. Yeah. So like, I zero fucks given,
right? And like, when I saw that they were like posting stuff together, I was like, Hey, like, what's going on with that? Like, just curious. Yeah. And she was like, Oh, like, he's just like, helping me like a guy's perspective of the breakup. And then they like posted a picture together. And I'm like, like, you can tell me like, it's okay. Like, I hope that things are okay. Yeah, if you guys want to talk, you can talk. She's like, No, just friends, just making it a thing,
making it a thing. And I'm like, whatever, literally the least of my worries. Yeah. Um, and then the whole I liked his status, all hell broke loose, started, say, like, started saying that, like, I was breaking into their home. Was inking their cars like crazy shit that I wasn't doing and I felt so bad because like I was friends with
his sister Yeah, like the as was I? Yeah, and like I there was one point like I was with Mike like hours away, right and The sister had like cuz we were friends texted me and he she was like, hey, where are you right now? I was like, oh, I'm like here and she was like, okay, so then they are lying. I'm like, what are they saying now? because they started putting her in the middle of it and like causing issues with her. And I'm like, that's not fair to you because
that's your family. So it was like you were being, like you said, harassed. I had to block all of them on everything. Like when I blocked the phone number, I ended up having to block her. Like I changed my email. I want to talk about this part of it. Because she was emailing me. Because like we understand, like I get why she was like completely coming at you, like attacking you.
And it was causing problems with other people at that point, which is not so like when you decided I have to completely cut off from this person. What made you do that? And how did you go about it? That's what I'm curious for with like a friend. I as soon as she started saying that I was doing things that I wasn't Yeah, is like we can cut it off. Right? Like, you can talk shit all you want. Like she was saying stuff like, oh, like you're harassing us and like,
whatever. But when she started saying that I'm physically doing something when I'm not accusing you of accusing me of crime. Yeah. That's when I'm like, no, thanks. So like, that's what I like, I block them on everything. Every person that like could have potentially Right. So like I blocked phone numbers, all that stuff, and then ended up going to email. Right. So I ended up changing my email. Right. Because I'm just
like, I can't have you doing this. Yeah. It was still sometimes happening to the point where, like when Mike and I got engaged, and I started our like wedding registries. Yeah. She would, I did a target one. And everything ended up starting to be marked as purchased. Yeah, the names that were being used were people who had died, like my mom and my grandma, my god, and like people that she knew that we knew together. Yeah, so I knew it was her. Right. So I had to get rid
of our target registry. I remember this. But the thing is, though, like after Mike and I got
married, like nothing's really happened. The thing is, it's like when someone is so relentlessly Harassing you and making your life miserable whether it's directly like that or indirectly like it is for other people You have no choice and it's it's people say like no contact is extreme Why don't you just leave them alone it but they won't sometimes and that's where it seems like that was definitely the case here Yeah, like
I had to change everything. Yeah, that's and like and I've I lost a friend because of it Yeah it's one of those things that makes people decide to go no contact when it's it's one thing if it's affecting you really horribly, but most of us are really bad at putting ourselves first. But when it starts to affect other people, like one thing that made me decide that I needed to do that to like move forward in my life was I was like, I don't want this dynamic to affect
my partner. And I was like, I don't want this to affect him. I don't want this to affect our family. Like Don't and nothing was like happening to but just there's a whole thing it creates this whole toxic environment and you have somebody in your life that you feel the need to Be no contact with like again. It's not happening lightly and it's not happening in a vacuum Thanks for listening to 30 dirty and dying We really appreciate
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podcast. Now let's get back to the show. There's a big difference between going no contact and just sort of separating a little bit, which is what I'm doing with my dad. Yeah, out of sight out of mind. Yeah, I mean, for the most part, I still have them on like social media and stuff. But yeah, so like, I'm not no contact, right? It's just, I'm not trying. Because it it's so it's so weird, though. Like, obviously, I've said before, like both my parents were alcoholics.
Dad still like made sure he had jobs made sure he like paid for things like made sure that we still like Could do what we needed to do. Yeah, like I still like I got to do karate Like I still got to do some extracurriculars right because
like he was able to provide for that. So like we were fine for most of the time like obviously it's Traumatizing to like get into a car accident with him and like having to take the keys So he talked to other person like being an adult taking care of him a lot of things can be happening at the same time. Yes but More recently, it's gotten to the point where I'm just tired of trying to have a relationship. Yeah, I feel that way
about my dad. He was around. I just feel like it's two different worlds because as an adult, I've been able to dive into a lot of his motivations for doing whatever he did or did not do. And knowing that with the full picture changes things. all the other things he did or didn't do or is or you know what I mean? Yeah, that's part of what went into my decision. But I get what you're saying of like, not necessarily worst thing in the world ever. Yeah, that would make you go
no contact. But as an adult, you have to get away from that to make your decision of how your relationship goes. Yeah. So like, it got weird. Yeah, to where like, it wasn't let's meet up for breakfast or let's meet up for dinner. Like, it's not talking to me at all. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, Okay, weird. And then I ended up getting a letter in the mail from him. That pretty much was, you know, like with alcohol, a they have to like do their steps. Yeah, and like this step
was like, apologizing, or whatever. And I got a letter from him that was like really heartfelt. And like I cried reading it. I'm just like, this is our chance to get back to like where we were. Yeah. So like, as soon as I read it, I called him. And I was just like, I got your letter. Like, like, I think we should like work on this. Like, let's get together. Like, let's have dinner. And he was like, Okay, like, I'll let you know my schedule. And I was like, Okay, just like,
let me know. And we'll like figure it out. Never heard from him. Then we got married, Mike and I. Yeah, I remember I was there. He were there about 45 seconds. So like that happened. And I'm just like, whatever. Yeah. Over it. Wedding happens. we're about to do the daddy -daughter dance and the mother -son dance. So I go up to dad and I'm like, we're about to do this. And he's like, we're leaving. And he left. That's so fucked up and selfish. And I'm like, you couldn't
stay for three minutes and 29 more seconds? And I worked so fucking hard to find the perfect dad song that wasn't about My I'm a daddy's girl. Yeah type of like wedding dance. Yeah, I found
the perfect song. That's just like your dad I Worked so hard to find it and I didn't even get to dance I literally I don't mean to take away for when I was like going to be married to someone that time in my life and we talked about wedding stuff and whatever and I didn't want to get married at all and I didn't want to do any of that but when that part came up I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do like yeah, I gotta play Limp Bizkit
Just one of those days. I think I picked just like one of I looked up like the lists and I found the least one that was like, like you said, like super gushy. And it was Elton John. It was your song. And I was like, I love Elton John. He loves Elton John. It's it's a nice song, but it's not really about that. It's just a nice song. And okay. Yeah. And then good news, I didn't marry that fucking guy. And I met a guy who didn't want to get married at all. So it works out.
Yeah. So yeah, so like, he just left. Yeah. And I was like, Okay, so I didn't get a dance with dad. That sucks. And I'm like, I'm not gonna try anymore. Well, that's a pretty like, this is what I'm saying. Some of the other stuff that happens, like, I'm not trying to take away from his process. I think some stuff can be really
performative. And if you're not willing to actually go out of your way to do anything beyond a performative grand gesture that makes you feel really fucking good, then you're not willing you're not really doing your part to have a real relationship with someone. It was easier for me to just like not try at that point. Yeah, like if he'll message me on Facebook. Um, I'll message back. Keep it kind of Yeah, like, I'm not. I'm not saying never
like I'm not gonna cut it off forever. Yeah, because like I know like he he has his own set of issues. And I don't think he is. purposefully being a bad dad, because of other things that he goes through. Well, maybe that's true. I don't want to completely go no contact because it's not like he's trying to manipulate me. Well, and there's see, there's some of the difference too. That's a decision you have to make. Yeah, as how much of this is hurting you hurting your
life hurting things you want to do? And how much can you deal with? And how much can you not? It's not it's not hurting my life. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not I don't have to make decisions based off of him. Exactly. Whereas in my situation, I certainly had to do that. Yeah. And it's part of what went into me being like, I have to it has to be all or nothing. Yeah, but it's not like I'm not going to go out of my way to have a relationship. When it's clear that he necessarily
doesn't care. And again, I don't know if he doesn't care or if he just doesn't think about it doesn't matter though. He's not doing it. He's not doing it. He's not being a dad. Yeah. And that's the problem. So that's why I'm just like, whatever. And then I found this, it's actually from a book. Okay. It was I mean, I saw it on TikTok, but it's a screenshot of a book. It says the phone doesn't work both ways because he never calls and a child should never have to beg their father
for a relationship. I am an afterthought like an acquaintance he's lost touch with I am the last thing on his mind. So don't tell me the phone works both ways to shame me into accepting his half asked efforts as a father. And then there's in this it also says I've called and called and called since I was a child and he never answers. If I called he would answer. I don't doubt that. But the sentiment the sentiment is like, he is not being a father. Well, that's
what I mean. It's not it's not anything that happens is performative and only so only run so far where it's convenient. And if it isn't, it's not happening. No, I understand what you mean, though, about just like, there is that level between being somebody's punching bag and going completely no contact. And that's just
sort of removing yourself. Yeah. And hoping that There's not a giant blow up or something crazy that makes you have to go the rest of the way And I don't think there will be at least for
me. Yeah, I have sort of I've just realized Collectively over the last few years that this is not a great person and this is not a person I want in my life and I'm not mad about some things, but I don't feel good about them And it's not out of being pissed off or being mad or wanting anything bad for that person you know, it's just it can be a slippery slope depending on what kind of person you're dealing with. So I've been on both sides of that and every part of that kind of
spectrum, I guess. Yeah, I obviously the no contact from being harassed, I have no choice. Yes, because they weren't listening to logic actually have another quote. Okay. It says me trying to explain how some people will never reach out and speak to you again because they don't have the maturity to cope with the fact that they did you wrong and you didn't deserve it since they lack accountability they will create a false narrative about you so they don't feel guilty yeah which is literally
what happened because i didn't do anything. But then all of a sudden, I'm breaking and entering and I'm egging them and I haven't done a single thing. It's easier for me to be the bad guy because they were harassing me. It's literally like putting a mirror in their face all the time to show them the consequences of their own actions. So they can't deal with it. Like I never wished ill of them. That's such an important part of this that
I don't think people understand. And I'm glad I'm Very glad that they if if they have a great relationship good for them like I didn't Want them to be in a bad relationship if they have kids and they're happy That's so great. Yeah, like honestly if Great for them like I'm I'm
happy for them. Yeah, totally it's so like I don't want like I never wanted it to be like This petty thing no, and that's what I mean about both the situation of like trying to just Be separate but not go no contact but also the going no -contact part of it most of the time people don't it's not this like Gotcha or wanting to hurt the other person. Yeah, it's wanting to protect yourself. Yeah, I Want I don't sit around and think like I hope something terrible happens.
Absolutely not To the people that I've got no contact with but also the people that I've been in those in -between phases with I have no ill will I hope you're fine. I guess I don't really I don't think about it very much I don't really I'm not sitting there wanting anything negative for you. Yeah, cuz here's the thing when you go no contact with someone It's not about them.
No, it's about you. It's about What I'm choosing to do for my life and how I'm choosing to be okay and move forward in my life effectively And yeah, I can't because of you. But I don't want to do anything to you. I want to do something for me. It's literally not even about you at this fucking point. No, it's just I need this for me. And I hope you the best. Yeah. So I found a couple things about no contact like from from psychology today or psychology today. It's by
somebody named Gina Wagner. It's like a like a op ed kind of thing. It's like an opinion piece, but it's on psychology today. And what drag or drew me to it was the subtitle is personal perspective going no contact isn't trendy. It's survival. And I think that's important because it's more talked about now and it's more which I think is good that we're talking about it and that it's not this like super taboo thing and that
it's an option for people. I think that's because people these days are more aware of our mental health. Yes. So we are quicker to realize when people are not good for our mental health, and we are more willing to let it go. Well, in this, so one of the topics here was, is estrangement
trendy, or are we just more aware? And the writer said, Some experts suggest that while estrangement has always been a phenomenon in families It's only recently being publicly acknowledged and analyzed in a significant way Because before I feel like like when I was growing up and there were people who were no contact with The family like the extended family it was People just made them out to be like fucking weirdos and like there and now I'm the fucking weirdo, but it's
people made them out like they were doing something wrong. And if you were the no contact person, I feel like you were maybe ashamed like you felt like you did something wrong. Yeah, by not being able or not wanting to put up with it anymore. Like nobody was shouting that shit from the rooftops. And now, I think it's I'm not saying we have to shout it all the time. But if we can't get past the stigma of it and the shame of it, it's not going to be effective. And that's what this
next part says. Family estrangement flies in the face of what we're taught as children honor your parents families forever blood is thicker than water Yet people don't usually choose estrangement out of rebellion resentment or lack of forgiveness They do it for their safety and emotional well -being and the well -being of generations that will come after And some therapists like piece of advice here is you can forgive a thief, but that doesn't mean you have to give them a key
to your house That's it right there. That's it right there. I don't you don't have to hate them You don't have to not forgive them or resent them. You can do all that good work. Yeah But don't have to let them continue route to ruin your life. Yeah, you don't have to continue to let them hurt you I Can feel and it's not easy. No the person who goes no contact either because it hurt them So much to the point where they felt they had to yeah like There was one thing
here that I wanted to say. So this was like a list of things that might happen as you go no contact. And I didn't keep all of them. But one was you will doubt your decision. And you will question yourself until you fully heal, which it creates a lot of inner conflicts. Yeah. And you're always going to wonder if you're being too extreme, or if you're being the problem or you're not being fair. And, and this is an unloved child. by default doesn't have a lot of self
-worth or self -trust. going no contact will feel impossible and that's okay and it's not something that will be done easily and that's fair like even though i have not had a good relationship with my parent that i've gotten no contact with ever and that i've known that we will go no contact and that i did not want him in my life and i accepted him still being in my life for a while i didn't have to but i did For your mom? Yeah,
for my mom, for my other parent. Even though I knew those things and when the time came where I could go no contact, there's still been a grieving process. It's still hard. It's not something that I enjoy having to have done, you know? And this next part says, it's not a linear healing process. It takes as long as it takes, which may be years. It's grief. Yeah, it's grief. It
says allow yourself to grieve. practice self -compassion and self -care and More often than not you will find yourself adrift and alone after going no contact with a parent people will judge you Insist you work on a relationship But the thing is an abuser or a narcissist or whatever has no desire to change You cannot have a relationship with someone who is constantly looking for ways to hurt you or undermine you so it's like I've grieved it. I have and there are times even though
it's been Over a year at this point. I think since I've made the decision and have enforced it I grieve and I wish I Wish it didn't have to be this way. Mm -hmm, but I know that it does So I can't change my mind because I feel bad. Yeah, you know, I just have to keep going and Do the work on my end to make it. Okay But like yeah, I've had moments, especially like during
the holidays and stuff. I you know It was like my dad and I had a lot in common, some stuff that has caused a lot of therapy, but superficial shit, you know, like interests and things. And sometimes at like holidays and stuff, we would end up kind of clumped together and talking about something or watching something. And there've been a few times since all this that it's been
like, it's almost it's kind of funny. It's like, my, my mom and Justin would Clump and then my dad and I because my mom and Justin are like the same fucking person if people say you marry your dad No, I married my mom. My mom is my mom my mom But yeah, they have a lot in common. So they really get along which is awesome and I love that but a few times they've like Clumped when it's just the three of us now, which is great and I'm not but then they're I don't know
You're just like I think about it. You miss that
I notice it. Yeah, the other thing about going no contact or putting some space between you and a person that's that's not really great is you can after a while really separate out like appreciate the good times without giving them a pass for shit like things can be true at the same time yeah and it's easier to realize that and to not constantly justify bad behavior and shit on your own good memories when you get some space yeah so i guess to wrap up If you're somebody
who's who's thinking about going no contact who's going no contact who maybe this is your first Thanksgiving no contact and it looks different We get it. Yeah, and there are resources out there, you know to help you kind of navigate some of this I would always recommend talking to someone and mental health is for everyone not just The extreme situations if you're having trouble navigating something and you want to talk to someone Do it if you want to talk to
us. We're not professionals. It's in every disclaimer. I have a social worker. So yeah, I mean, I'm not trained. I'm not licensed. Yeah. But yeah, if you want to, you know, weigh in on this conversation with us, feel free, you can get to you can get in touch with us on slide into our DMs. Yeah, slide into our DMs. We'll talk to you. Happy Thanksgiving. But yeah, I hope you're having a good holiday. And I hope that this conversation
helps somebody or at least helps normalize. This thing that happens to a lot of us, especially as we get older and create our own lives and family, you know Yeah, so do you have any final thoughts Courtney? No, okay I think we said it all I think so. So we will see you guys next Thursday Just heads up. We're getting close ish to the end of the season We have a few more episodes
to go. So for all things, you know end of season Anything else that we may or may not be doing as we get closer to the holidays you know, make sure you're following us at 30 dirty and dying on tik -tok and on Instagram and If you haven't Please, you know rate us review us on your platform of choice and share us with your friends We really want to keep doing this and your guys support makes that possible and means a lot to us at the same time So please yes what we want for
Thanksgiving. Yeah for the holidays our gift from you guys is listens listens and ratings and shares and all that stuff. And you know, we're thankful for you. You're our well, my favorite thing at Thanksgiving is a tie between deviled eggs and stuffing. Oh, so y 'all are my for a deviled egg. Yes. We're slots for you. Y 'all are deviled eggs and our stuffing and our rolls and our cranberry sauce and all the good stuff. So all the carbs, all the all the things. Yes.
Thank you so much for being here with us. We're thankful for you and have a great holiday. Bye! I want them to scoot me raw.