¶ Improving Fire Training and Culture Change
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A lot of departments run into that Like , oh , that's , I'm just I'm not doing it . You know , this is the way I was taught and that's what we're doing . And you know , and that's always . I mean , I'm sure you know everybody has that , you know every department . And it's the delivery . That is how you do .
It is is when you do the deliveries make the trainings like where you're making them successful , you know , and making them and making the make the training successful for them to succeed , so then they're more willing to make that change . That that would be like that .
That's where I like , like when you sit and like , oh well , I'd like to call a company out , well , you know , we'll do this drill for you know , eight hours that will never go , you know , because then when they get done , then they're going to take , you know , you know , 15 , 20 runs or something to get smudged , you know smoked all night .
But you know , if you take off , you know little bites , and take it as a marathon and not a sprint , your career , then you know you'll be , you'll be solid , you know , at the end of the game , but yeah , you know , if you , even if you pick up a fire engineering magazine or firehouse magazine , just that . That's something better .
You know that , like that statement I talked about , when I give that , you know the D con talk , you know , like that , that one there , how I said , like you know everybody talks about .
You know , oh , you know , well , we don't have a second set of gear or we just come out , get a cylinder , we go back in and you know we may grab a drink of water , but you know you got dirty hands . I'm like , okay , well , just do one thing better Grab some wipes . You know , wipe your hands before you get that water . Just do something better .
You know one thing better . You know we , everybody knows that person that's that's died of cancer or been on your department or close to your department , and you know we don't need that .
And if it means using some sort of a wipe and you know decoding your gear and you know all the stuff that we should do , you know that that's the message that , like you really need to drive home with the younger people is hey , you know we're putting you in this , this nasty environment , you know , and it's not cool to have your stuff just sitting around .
Yeah , maybe breathe in , but you know , wash your gear , you know , you know , dayton , everybody gets two sets of gear , you know , and you know they got there , they got time to go shower and all that stuff . I mean that is something I mean , was that the way it was when I started ?
No , but you know , we get the wipes and stuff , but we're not probably doing like full fledged , you know , like like the standard states . But you know we're doing something and that , that that's , and I've been guilty of it too .
I , you know , I'm not , I'm not going to sit here and say that I didn't think a fire helmet was , you know , not cool , you know , unless it was dirty and all that stuff . And you know , not washing your gear , I mean .
But you know , like I said , I mean every time you put that helmet on , for you know , an auto accident , fire alarm , all that stuff , well , now , you just , you know subject of yourself , you know possible contaminations . It's , you know , absorbing in the heads , one of the top spots , right , yeah , and that's just .
You know that that's a culture change in the fire service . So not , you know like that is . You know something that has to be instilled , you know , we know Frank leaves like huge into that , you know , and and you know we when we were there , and FD and why you know that with their kits they were rolling out .
I mean you know they were coming , you know Getting their squared away .
So yeah , I do remember they . You get thrown to the bulls on that , on that , yeah , at the rock .
Yeah , yeah sure did . But you know I , I mean I planned for that . I mean , like I was like okay , you know what are you going to do when you go to the you know the largest apartment in the world and talk to them about , you know , cleaning the gear . I mean you make it . It's talk about what I said .
You know you come up with a Delivery that will be well received and not just say , oh , this is the way it is and this way you guys should do it . That's never gonna work . You know , and , and and that's the way I feel like with all trading deliver .
You know , no matter if it's the simple , hey , we're changing the hose , loads of you know how you hook a hydrant or whatever it's , it's mainly like , okay , it's a delivery in your attitude as an instructor to the , deliver it correctly .
You know right , and that's why I think , like you know , our , our core group that we have when we deliver these , these , these classes , it makes it nice because we all have the same thought . We might come from different parts of the country , but we all come there and we know what the message is going to be .
You know , and that's that's what makes it cool . I mean I said , besides , made me a better instructor , you know , in the past several years , just because Working with guys like you and Jesse and bright , you know all the guys that we work with right , because you know Everybody picks up something from each other .
I mean , kaz , just I hooked over to this week Bam . So , say , kaz , a text about needing some some training and like within 15 minutes I had it . You know , not , that's like . I mean , that's the cool part , you know , of that , what we do and getting you pretty much .
You reach out to any of us and we get the resource , you know it is great , it's a great network and I Really wish more people would not only join the ISF si and become members , because it is that exact thing it's . You have access to some of the best instructors in the United States , in North America , and why would you not want that ?
And it's so cool . Sometimes I'll look on my phone and and so maybe call it , will say Scott Wallace , and like that , I'd cool for a reader . Let's say you know Mark hot , you know Brad French . He's a big , big hero , mind . It is so cool that I can talk to these people and not reinvent the wheel .
And you know further my career On the backs of other people . You know that they've already done the work and they're like , willing to share it . So , yeah , it is super cool . Now with ISF si , I think I know your answer . What's your favorite place ? You've ever had a tea chat .
Well , I mean yeah , I mean obviously you know the the best , you know the best experience . I mean that anybody would hope for it . I mean you get to go to the rock . I mean the FD and why . I mean I got that opportunity to go with With you and Jesse and Brian and not who else is there all Mike ? Who else was there with us ? Oh , chad , chad .
Chad , chad . Chad , chad , it's not fair that we have Chad Christiansen and Michael ?
Carthy in the same .
Yeah , yeah stealing stuff from the fire department .
Yeah , that happens , yeah , he's , but they're both awesome . But you know , like like that , that experience , you know , um , was it great , but like I can't see , none of them were like oh , that was just like horrible , because Every time I got better is a struck and I felt like the classes went better .
You know , I feel like we're going to a ton and teaching FDY , since that was , like technically , our first delivery , and then we like I don't know how many times we talked that you know , being there a week doing two classes , like yeah . I mean we , we changed on the fly right .
I mean we like flip the syrup a little bit , and you know we ironed out a lot of stuff , but I mean we were able to do it , you know . I mean , well , you know we can't leave out , so really was there of course too .
So you know , I mean .
Yeah , I mean so really hooking us up with you know all the the cool stuff and our Friday evening activity , you know , of taking us Wanted a surprise visit . That was awesome .
He , he's one of the classiest people I think I've ever met in the fire service . Yeah , john Cyril , for those are listening . Captain , rescue one FDY . He's an instructor for the ISF aside and every time we've gone up there he makes sure that we get to do some of the coolest things .
So we , we all got to go to what see the documentary , the chief believe with a , with a Talking part afterwards with the . You know , like freak , frankly frankly we we got to go to McSorley's . He sent us to Vanguard as a Vanguard one .
But he does .
Yeah , that's us up like he is , a he's a host .
Well , in the rescue , one party itself was like super awesome that he invited us to the rescue one party .
Yeah , how do I know ? I don't know hundred eighth birthday , yeah of rescue ones and it closed a bar and only rescue on people and FDY people . They're free drinks and food and we got invited and we got to See some really heavy hitters in the fire service .
Did we know real , for real , like people that are on books , I mean , and just to sit and hang out with them ? I was , that , was that and that that's why I've been that . Experience me , you know that that's like way up here , you know , yeah that was awesome and that I'll never forget all that .
No , that was definitely the high point of my career . I've said before it's I never . I was on a podcast and they asked me so what goals do you have for the rest of your career ? And I've never been asked that before . I wouldn't prepare for the question and I kept thinking I'm like I , I don't , I don't have Any more goals .
I said I've exceeded my goals . When I started to Teach for the ISF , si , and got to go to FDY twice , I said that's I've exceeded my goals .
That's it .
I got nothing else and I'm happy with it . I'm tickled to death with it . Yeah , oh man . Hey , let me ask you this Let me switch gears on you , little bear . All right , let's go . I meant to come on with it .
¶ Fire Service Training and Recruitment Discussion
I meant to ask you early on how'd you get the fire service ? What's your origin story ?
Well , I mean I I'm a firehouse brat brother I was . I mean my dad became a firefighter in 1970 as a volunteer and he became a volunteer chief in 1977 and I was born in 74 . So I pretty much was at a firehouse all the time .
I mean , you know , small volunteer , I mean grew up around it and loved , you know , just loved all the brotherhood that they had .
and you know , obviously you know , back and then , when you know , the volunteer days were you know , really fun and they got to do you know things that you know , yeah , with families and all the get-togethers and all the all the fun stuff you know they did back in the day and you know , and I knew like I even probably like seventh-grade I probably knew like
that that was my end game and so you know I got on there as soon as I graduated . You know I had already been in some live fire training but prior to that but and I promoted up , I became a lieutenant pretty quick and then Then a captain and I took over training out there and so I was on there for 15 years , work part-time , a lot of places .
You know Southern Montgomery County , because the back and then I mean the competition was was fierce , like you know . Everybody was taking tests and you know the the job market Isn't like it is now . There's a lot of around here . I mean firefighter , emt positions , career EMT positions around that .
That wasn't even an option back then and so I mean that that's how I got in . I mean , and I knew it , you know , right away I mean I was , I was , I was all in right away and went to get my degree and all that stuff and Right out of high school and then I got it . And it was just struggle finding that , that career job .
I mean I tested for Dayton several , several times and you know the competition was pretty fierce but I got it in the building inspections . I did that for about 11 years and then I did that , yeah , I was a building inspector local couple suburbs around us and I I did that and but I mean that wasn't my end goal .
But I mean I Kind of related to doing you know this , you know inspections and stuff , and and I kind of got to the age I was like I was like 33 , I'm about About done , like coming to an end . You know like , and Dayton came a call and I was on their list and then they , they did one more class and then I was in and that was 33 , yep , 33 .
So , yeah , I was . This is actually September 17th 2007 , so 16 years there .
Wow . So how was it being in the 30s in your first academy ?
um , well , you know , I kind of , I kind of knew I mean obviously it was tougher because you know , I wrote a desk , but I wasn't the oldest . I wasn't the oldest there was , uh , there were several , I mean guys that were older and me in my class , and uh , so yeah , but yeah that one , now fast forward , go ahead , go ahead .
Sorry , I don't know You're good . I was gonna say now , fast forward . And you're actually in training , yeah , and teaching these , these new recruits , and you know I've had many of conversations , um , over adult drinks , uh , about your training , uh , place now , tell me about when you're when I always thought this was kind of cool .
Tell me about , like , when your recruits , before they get online , what do they have to go through , say the last couple of days or the night ? You know what I'm talking about .
Oh yeah , yeah , so , um , so actually , like I , I've done um several recruit classes , um , our , when we do a recruit class , the , the , the training center staff actually um , just helps kind of manage things , but they don't actually run the class um , so , like , my position now is the as training center lieutenant .
I'm also the program director for a fire charter , so it's like me and I do the admin stuff and get things ready for for them and so the , the , the academy , you know that , that cadre , you kind of assist with the cadre in my current position plus do other departmental training , uh , and then when you're with the class , so how it works in our academy , it's
six months , six month fire academy , you know , and it's uh , it's you know emt , firefighter one , firefighter two and fire inspector , and , but before they go into fire inspector , we have like it's it's kind of a combination .
We do three nights and night fires at the end of the recruit class , um , and we just , I mean we run scenarios , I mean you know till , like one , two in the morning , it's all dark , and uh , you know they , it's all stuff , it's all scripted . I mean we , we have , I mean there's a dispatch , there's you know everything's .
We got role playing with everything and it's all stuff . It's not like out of the room . I mean it might be crazy stuff to people , but but like it's stuff . That's . It's happened Through the years different , different officers , we created this sheet of of scenarios and , uh , we run through that . But yeah , it's uh , it's pretty intense .
You're getting them ready for online ? Yeah , oh yeah .
Yeah , yeah , six , yeah , six months to get to get out in the district , I mean in . If you don't , uh , I mean you don't make the six months and you know you don't get , you don't get released . I mean from you , don't , you don't graduate . Um , you know there's something , do you ?
have ? Do you usually have people that don't graduate ?
Yeah , we just yeah , we've had that . Yeah , I mean , and sometimes , like you know they , they get like a , an extension , but For the most part , I mean you know some some just quit . You know , the last class , uh , we started like 36 and 29 graduated . So I mean that was a good number . I mean that that was a , that was a solid .
I felt like was , uh Was a solid , you know number to graduate . Yeah it was actually our largest graduating class Uh in 20 plus years and the the the highest diversity class that we've had in the department . So it was yeah , it was huge .
So so what do you do ? Uh , so we , after you have your academies , you're there just for the , the people , the rank and file . At that point , how ? Hard is it to manage new recruits in an academy . At the same time , get the training done for your guys , because you got a pretty , pretty substantial .
So yeah , um , you know we're a 300 person , you know person department and so , like I said , there's a cadre , there's a captain over the class that he does the administration for the class . I mean , I like , I only like in my position now I only have to step in when I need to .
When I , when I , when I assisted with the last class , I was the lieutenant of the class and we had a captain did the administration part for us . Um , the , the , the lieutenant over fire In the in the charter does it is is hands off unless , uh , there's things needed . Um , so , uh , you're able to do it like now .
Um , you know , I , I still have to do , like the , the , the departmental training In my current position where , as the cadre doesn't have to , they , their focus is six months with that , the recruit class . So , uh , there's nobody like at our on our training center staff .
That is totally like okay , every year you got every recruit class we bring guys out , guys and gals out for for that . So it makes for just about every class you teach . Yeah , yeah , every one . Yeah , it's a separate . I mean it's a separate cadre and we and we give them a note notice , like we've already .
We've already got the the captain , lieutenant pick for the next class and it's , it's uh , hey , it just gives them time to get you know they're their schedule changes , stuff To go in 40 hours .
Man I get it . I get it .
Right now we're recruiting hard . We got a big recruiting going on . We they just detailed two recruiters to our training center to you know , start doing that , and um , and then we we also have A firefighter . That's an instructor and he's actually one of our Public schools , at one of the Dayton public schools that we actually do a high school program as well .
That he that's , he goes , he goes there every day .
I mean , he's actually Dayton fire puts on like like a firefighter , one , two , whatever class so yeah , it's , it's , yeah , it's so we're trying it , we've tried different routes .
I mean to try to figure out what the most successful route is is Trying to get them certifies , emt's , firefighters . So they're doing an orientation , kind of like a you know fired , any MS orientation , and till they get you know , up till next year they get a you know old enough to be in the class .
So because they couldn't bring in seniors since they kind of redid the curriculum , so but , yeah , it's , we'll see see how successful it is . I mean we tried different routes . I mean you know it's , it seems to be the the thing around here . We got a lot of high school programs around us , so it's becoming more and more .
I would love you to have . We had a bunch of conversations in the past and every time you talk about Dayton and I know you may not agree with this , but from from my experience , when you talk about Dayton it sounds very progressive . It just sounds like a progressive department to work for .
Now I know from the outside I probably I'm that's a luxury I get is to say you guys seem progressive , but I know of departments that Don't do , don't don't instill that kind of hard work and ethics in training .
Bring people , bring different companies down , or captain's and Luton's down to train , put six months on the clock , because I know some departments that try to rush recruits out just because they don't want to pay overtime . So and then you talk about having you know a couple people for just recruiting being assigned to training .
I mean , everything that you talk about Sounds to me in my experience is a very progressive department , but at the same time you're very old department too , right yeah .
Yeah 1863 .
How do you square that ? How do you square , you know , having such an old tradition , built fire department , but be be progressive in its recruitment and its training , which is the backbone for any department .
¶ Tradition and Pride in Fire Service
I guess , like , when it comes to the training , I mean the standard was set , man , I mean like , like it is hard for us to like , for you know , everybody says , well , their recruit class was the hardest , there's was the hardest . You know , everybody was the hardest . You know , and you know everyone's .
You know You're pacifying the , you know the fire service , who I , you know why you guys are doing this , doing that , you know , but , but . But , but it's a change into the times too . I mean you got it , you got to go with the flow , but one thing that that will never I mean our six month will always .
I mean Like that is that that standard is the standard . I mean you got to cross train tracks to get to our train center and when you cross the train tracks you better leave the excuses on the other side of tracks . That's , that's , that's how it is nice .
Yeah nice and as far as like to say progressive , I mean what we're , you know the , the population is like 140 and it's been going down but like right now , like we got a lot of urban living , our downtown is getting real progressive .
It's really changed from when I , the landscape downtown has changed , for when I came on , you know every like ever , you know everybody , everybody struggles with finances , right , I mean that's always , it's always a thing .
But I think you know , no matter what the , the good or the bad , and I I don't like to get into the , the political thing saying oh , they could give us this , they give us that . The reality is this Everybody that comes to our department like still takes pride in the common and doing the job and that's why they come .
You know , they know when they come to our department , I mean we continue to break records every year . I mean you know 42,000 runs , you know it's approximate last year . I mean that is bit , that is busy .
Yeah , and you know and it's like , but it's the pride thing , you know , now , if you talk to some people it's like , oh , the hell with that , I don't want to work there . Right there , I'm dating , born through through . I mean that that's like . Like when I was in high school , I was , you know , I was like I want to be dating firefighter .
I was a date fire Explorer and I was like I mean , I was , I looked up to those dudes and I was like I'm gonna be here someday . I'm gonna be here , hell or hot water . I want to be at this place and you know , and you know , there's opportunities . Kids , oh , why don't you go ? It's like , is this where I want to be ?
I mean , that's , that's what it was and it's the pride thing , you know .
And and now that I'm in the position I'm in , like I feel like you know , I talked to the one of the retired lieutenants that , like his name is on the street sign at train center , cuz he put so much time in out there , and I'm kind of like , like I looked up to that guy and I like I like always try to talk to him and tell him , like the things
that's going on and everything , and because he was so vested at our train center , and I feel like it's , you know , guys like that , you have to pass that on , you know you ? You , that's your job , you know , besides providing , you know , quality , great instruction . You got to pass that on .
You know , if you just are going out there , it's like I'm gonna take it easy , not beat up on body for a while . I mean , you know , yeah , you get that luxury , but you're not doing the fire service or your department any good by just sitting there and say , yeah , that's , that's good I'm . You know , I'm sleeping , I'm oh bed tonight .
Right , you know , and I'm not . I'm not getting up seven or eight times after midnight , but you know it is a . We had a hardcore tradition and I'm proud to say that like I get to help carry that tradition on , you know . I mean , you know , tonight there's a new ent class starting and Before I left them I was buffering floors . Because you know why ?
Because when you walk on our trains there it's good . You look at the floor , I mean it's , it's older building , it's it's , you know , back in 67 , when in 1967 and our training grounds are our office building and our , our tower was built and but it's pride thing .
I mean it's , it's it's keep the tradition and keep the pride , and I mean that's the fire service . So , bro , I mean that's , that's what that if ? If you don't have that , then you don't belong in this business . No , I mean I mean like that , you know , rick , last he's the pride ownership . I am huge in that pride ownership . I love that . That .
That video that he does with those sitting out with a recruit and talking . I mean that is real . That that is , you know , look , what you're signing up for . I played that for a recruit class before .
Like you know , day one , like this is what you got , you know , and it's it's huge like , and that if we don't keep that going then it just becomes a job . I mean , some people it's , it's , it's kind of a . You know it's not a just a job , it's also what it's a . You know it's a hobby for right and right .
You know we , we , what do we go teach for ? Right , what do we like to go teach for ? Hang out with each other and do that fun , you know . You know we love teaching , but you know we did , we do it because that's it's kind of our hobby , right , I mean outside of doing at your own department and that's what I .
And we don't money doing it no we don't make if you sell a PTO and look at our paycheck . I'm not complaining about our money . That's not what I'm doing here . What I'm saying is we don't do it for the money . No , we don't . We do it because we have a passion for teaching and we love hanging out with each other in different states .
Yeah , I mean two weeks ago . We were riding on a Detroit fireboat together , I know right .
I mean and I mean , I went to a baseball game . I know I don't know which one it was .
It was a sporting event , yeah , right , and .
I was just waiting for the marching band to come out and they never did so I'm assuming it was a tennis match , I don't know and it wasn't you're right , we do so many cool things , it's , it's . You can't . You can't measure with money . You're around people that care about the fire service yeah , yourself .
They have that pride and they want , they want to share it and it's and that's it . Right , there is and I've said this before Knowledge without sharing in the fire service is is just currency . It's something you hold to make yourself look better . Right , it's something you use to make other people feel bad .
If you know something , you have an obligation to share it in the fire service , because everybody needs to Network and and do everything they can to make knowing themselves better . But the number one job is to make sure our citizens are safe and getting safer . Yeah , make sense , yes , sir .
And you know that the thing is like that's too sirs , you call me sir . But but you know , like you , anybody that like like it's , if you should want to pass it on , like I still remember my first officers date , my first officers , you know it , other departments , and it's like I still felt like if I didn't do good , I'd be letting them down .
Like you know , we got every year Dayton . Our union puts on a retirees dinner and we have a retirees . You know they come back . It's a big deal .
They play golf for one day and then and and I was looking forward to talking to guys because it's almost like I don't say that checking up on you , but I like to tell them the good stories about how we've carried things on . You know , and yeah , I think that is like super cool to be able to do that right .
And and if you can't say , if you go to a person that retire in you , tell them all the shit stories , they're gonna think that man , we didn't leave that department in a good state , right ? I mean , because in reality , it's kind of on you to to carry it on , right .
I mean , they , they , they pass the torch to you and and and you need to get it ready to pass it on to somebody else if you beat down a bunch of people and and don't get them ready to Carry it on , they're not gonna be ready . You know , and and I mean that's what I'm stoked I'm doing an instructor class for 17 people starting tomorrow .
I Mean that's right . Yeah , that's never happened . I mean we've done here and there some people , but like having a class of 17 is huge and then doing a live fire , you know , instructor after that with them , I mean that that's some huge stuff , I mean , and that that's that's like . I feel like , you know , we have to get some people ready .
We got to get some seasoned instructors so that when we have them come out for six months , they got to be able to hold the line and in hold up their end to what the you know is expected .
So that's it , absolutely . Yeah , brother , I tell you what I'm so happy you're on my podcast tonight . It's been a blast catching up with you .
Yeah , well , it's a . I mean I should have been on it like seven or eight times because I mean like we could have just set up At the bar or whatever , but you know .
All we had news record us yeah .
Yeah , yeah .
Yeah , yeah , or lobbies yeah , Fort Worth lobby was a , that was a hey that was I know I created that remember . I remember , yeah . So for those who don't know , you know what ? I'm gonna save that story . I'm gonna save that story . You know people , people listen to this . So yeah , maybe , maybe we don't know we don't tell our source .
Yeah , well , that's a bit . Yeah , we get some people in trouble , that's all good . No , but hey , hey , like I was super cool to be on here , I mean I like I was , I was super stoked all day about the fact that I get to Be on this podcast and I love the message .
I love it , thank you . No , it means a lot for you to put me on here for real . You're my best friend's brother . You're gonna be that way .
Oh , I mean it's like I got told somebody's , like I said I'm gonna be a podcast . Like you know , met this guy less than five years ago , but I feel like we're like best friends because we're like always talking and hanging out and it's like , you know , yeah , jake and Scott , no , what the fuck , you know ? Blah , blah , blah .
But it's like , yeah , you know , but it's because we enjoy each other . We do good , you know , do good things together , so we learn from each other .
Yeah , we have a great time together . Yeah , and I mean I hate that I didn't get to meet you for about 50 years .
¶ Discussion on NFL, Trades, and Sponsorships
Yeah , no , let's go . No , I know , let's go , I know , I know for fun .
Cool brother buddy , I love you today . Yeah , love you , have a good night . Thank you hey guess what ?
Hey , it's opening on NFL yeah .
I know you don't know it . I know you don't see .
I know , I know you don't know that , but you know .
He got , he got traded to the bad news bears last year . Yeah . All right he's , he's , he's a point . Okay , I don't know , fuck up .
No , no hell , no Hell , no , just later , brother , just cut that segment out . All right , right , people need to know how stupid I am All right buddy , later buddy All right , man See you .
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