S3 E45: Lt. Scott Wallace of Dayton Fire Part 1

Now , Scott has been in the fire service for 30 years , 16 of that has been at Dayton Fire in Ohio . He's been a lieutenant for the past five years , done two stints in training . He's currently in training . Right now he's an excellent ISFSI instructor and that's where I met him . He's just downright good guy .

With all that being said , I hope you enjoy the episode , Lieutenant Scott Wallace .

You do all the good things . You're somebody I care deeply about , one of my favorite people , man , how's it going up there in Dayton ?

So you don't really ever use them as a quint at all , like first day , yeah , I mean , yeah , they'll pull hand lines , yeah , they'll do that , but we try to stay focused in the truck . Does truck work ? And the engine does engine work . I love that idea .

And my issue not that anybody asked , but my issue is the quint never really knows 100% what they're going to be right , they don't know if they're going on a run as a truck or they're going to run as a engine and plus they make all the medical runs so that truck gets beat up a lot .

So I'm kind of , you know , but the other one is a truck but it just does truck work . So they know when they go out they're just going to be doing truck work .

I feel like it's kind of almost not only my opinion , but I feel like it's kind of a little much to ask a company to wait till the run comes in to decide if there should be a truck or an engine . That's my thought , yeah .

You know control utilities and you know other tasks you know that are required . First engine is always the attack engine , second engine supply if we back down for our supply lines . And third engine usually you know is supporting . Third engine is the operators , usually AO .

So yeah , we're subject to it , but it's not like we get assigned to the actual incident . But yeah , we a lot of times you know what we'll go and you know , you know kind of document , especially if it's , you know , a second Laram fire . We'll definitely get involved with that .

It's always fun as a training officer , though , to see how your guys are handling the fires and doing everything they're supposed to be doing , based on what you teach them . So I'm assuming everything you teach in your academy and all your firefighters is done 100% perfectly on the fire ground every time .

You know if it's a big incident , requires like a , like a PIA , then you know we definitely get involved with that and you know , add the training component to it .

You know you don't want to sit there Monday morning quarterback going in as training , but you know you pick up stuff , take pictures and you know , and then you know guys don't like to be so you didn't do this , you didn't do that . But you know you can take it and then use it as a . If it was something major , then you know it can be addressed .

You know , but we don't , we don't jump over . You know the district chief runs our district and you know we have a district chief of the training center that you know hit . You know it's handled internally that way . But for the most part , like you know , we'll pick up stuff .

You know if we see stuff , take pictures , we have to take video and use it as lesson learned stuff .

And look at his awesome shirt it's a 3.5-finder shirt and then behind him he has his helmet that he travels with when I teach with him , and it's a glorious , glorious Taylor Tyn , and we are part of a secret society and he is known as the duck . There it is , he's showing it . I , of course , because of my majesty and how glorious I am , I am the eagle .

And then we have Jesse Marcott , who's been on here before . He is the Falcon , and we have a new addition to our secret bird society . Who's that and what's his nickname ?

First time I think I taught with him was water mapping , but anyway , I'll never forget . The smoke is theater smoke , but it came pouring out of the bottom and here comes Scott walking soaking wet .

You could tell his the inside of his toenails were wet because there was so much water and he had his big smile like a , like a kid , on Christmas and I'm like , oh shit , he's the duck . And then , of course , on the shield that he has it says the duck . But at the bottom there's always a little tagline . Everybody's got a specific tagline .

His is an Andy Fredericks quote . As a first line goes , so goes the fire , and I couldn't help but think that when I , when you , became the duck . Yeah , well , that day also the greatest moment of your life , probably right .

But I mean , besides , that day , you know , in the late years , like I mean , it rained , so we were already wet , and then we just we'll just flow a bunch of water , so you get wetter man . Yeah , I've seen a pattern .

Um , it's .

You know the momentum carrying like that and and all the way to like , yeah , I did a three skid fire in a in a in a burn room and that's how I was taught to to put out fire and not having the training which it wasn't there . I mean the studies weren't there when myself and yourself we didn't have that study , the studies weren't there .

And the technique I mean when you introduce and everybody's , if it's combination nozzle , smoothbore nozzle , whatever it's , when you sit and show them the techniques , they're like , oh , I never thought of that . The common problem is just the lack of getting educated on the new research .

If I wasn't involved in the society , I don't know if I would have found the research as much as I wasn't a research guy . I'm going to get my hands dirty type of guy . But then when it got introduced to me and it was like , wow , really , I opened it for me .

And then when we deliver these classes , it's like , yeah , I get where you are at and I feel that way . I mean , I know how you feel , but this is good stuff . This is stuff that you really need to incorporate in your department and get the message out .

And the important part of us is when we teach this and all the cadres that teach the water mechanics , water mapping stuff is delivered and message right . It's not about the smoothbore versus combination , blah , blah , blah . That's not what it's about .

What it's about is learning how to technique , how to move hose , airfields , those guys , all those that do that stuff . It's like , yeah , I mean , they got it right . And it's like more and more of that needs to be taught .

And with ISFSI , it's like we get the opportunity to do a lot , and taking this message to a lot of departments is great that we can deliver up-to-date research and have our backing when we sit and do water mapping in the prop and everybody's eyes get wide open like , wow , I never thought of water going that way .

I just want to put it on that red stuff , right , yeah that's always the thing .

We're old firefighters , sort of setting our ways , but , like you said , our eyes were open and there's no way that you can read this research and not change your tactics , not change your strategy for your department , and if you're not doing it , you're putting people in harm's way .

So the old , like one of the things that we teach and one of the things I love watching Scott teach so much is air entrainment . It's air and water is all that is air and water .

The idea of spraying through a fire and hitting the back wall is useless Having to a steep angle at the ceiling and then raining it down and you're coating all the surfaces evenly , contracting those gases , which is what we want .

We want to contract those gases quickly because they're going to be replaced by cool air and almost always on the bottom and that's where our victims are . So it's great information . You go to FS , FSRIorg , I believe , yeah , and there's free training and it's all the studies .

So the ISFSI basically is sort of an informal branch , education branch of the FSRI that do all the studies and then Scott and I get to go out with a bunch of fantastic instructors and go some great places and teach this stuff . So for us we teach it over and over and over and it's always the same results , right .

So when we teach water mapping or air entrainment , we're never surprised . Everything happens exactly the same way . Every time it's science . So if you're out there listening and you're like I don't know about that bullshit , First off you're wrong and second off , get educated . Get educated , you know .

Take care of your company , take care of your district , take care of your department . Learn the stuff . It's the real deal . Was there any time like when you were teaching the Scott any of the stuff ? Basement , fire 1700 , any of that stuff that you were still kind of questioning a little bit , or were you all in as soon as you saw the data ?

, yeah , that kind of how , like it all kind of started like that . I got that experience . And then , you know , brad's one got me in the society and you know owe it to him to where I'm at today . And you know , like , so when I went to that first class and Brad's like , oh yeah , you know what to do with this water mapping , you know .

And then you know that first one is like , ok , like you know , what's the best way to teach this ? You know like , and you know , because every place we go is different , and until you to go to set up day , and you're just kind of like , ok , what I got to work with , right , you know . And then you just kind of come up with it .

I remember the first day , you know , we went to the dollar store and bought a bunch of plastic Tupperware to show them how much water we was containing and then like it built up to like , ok , I got five gallon buckets .

And then we got to the point where it's like , hey , we need to get some smooth surfaces so they can see the momentum and , you know , watch the water .

You know and like , because a lot of the you know places we go on either you know concrete wall which had the smooth surface , or like the inside of a panel of fire facilities you know , like you know could have . Yeah , that's why I was giving a plug right back here .

But you know like yeah , yeah , but you know , like you know , and it just kind of built you know , and it just kind of like once you know , you know , just do just like anything else . Going out and teaching you learn as much as they're learning right .

I mean , every , every single one , every single one of those , I brought something back and then made it better the next time , and that's what I think like . And then having everybody engage , like supporting each other when we go teach , makes it , and then we all kind of got her like her own niche .

I mean I wish we could continue with like base and fire in 1700 . Both was like I felt like we were roll .

So we were , we were see , we were just outside of Detroit , it's just outside of Northville , that's how we should say it right yeah , yeah . We were rolling through that stuff and everybody was clicking everybody . We were picking up what we needed to pick up for the other person . It was fantastic .

And then it's like well , all right , now we're moving on to the next one , which is gonna be engine company operations . Yeah water mapping again , hostroom mechanics against , but that's gonna be exciting , mm-hmm . Yeah , you're right , you know you get this rhythm going . And quality classes . I really think .

I really think that our basement fire class is absolutely one of the best in the country and I'm hoping that we're gonna start offering that . Yeah , and then 1700 . I'm still running into people say I've never heard of NFPA 1700 . I'm like , got check it out , brother . Especially if you're training officer , you got to check it out .

Oh yeah , we , you know we don't follow all the standards right , and so they just like that I'm not taking that class , we , we can't follow it . Well , in reality , it's Everything that we do already . It just it's just honing the skills and then adding the , the research with it . You know when it , if it comes from . You know search ventilation .

You know even the , the IC position on the outside . You know A couple of our classes . Some people like didn't even really even think about doing the 360 with the camera .

You know , like , oh , you know , and you know Jesse does a great job with that part and it's like , yeah , I mean there's a lot you know , and that that's probably the biggest thing when it comes to fire services is getting People to keep buying in .

You know , you know we all say , you know we don't want to change and one change , blah , blah , blah , but the reality . I mean that our services , a living document . You cannot Just stop , you can't just okay , that's it . I got my card , I'm gonna go fight fire . Everybody know it's a game changer . The buildings change , you know .

Or PPE changes , our tactics change . I mean , you know , you know , your manning changes , whatever . Whatever you got , I mean everything changes and every department's different . But if there's the standard of , hey , we should do this , no , it's , it's , it's not slicers , it's not this , it's x-ray water application .

Okay , you can still call it what you want , but yeah , I mean you still can , you can still call it whatever you , whatever you know , transitional attack . But in the standard it says x-ray water application . Okay , and and what are we doing ? We're making it more tenable . Making it more tenable for us .

You know the victims , you know we're putting them first in . The studies have shown that . You know that it's it's not pushing fire , it's it's not , you know , killing people . By doing it , we're we're making a more tenable . I mean there , you know some of those videos that we show when we teach these classes .

It's like just watch this , just watch these videos . You know that one out of Florida , that we Fort Walton Beach , I think it's what the one where they show that .

I mean all the stuff that you hear from day one , like recruit classes , like okay , that happens , still doing there , they're all still doing their job and and then when they bring the victim out , they did everything right . And you know , we've , we've preached that how many times when we talk that class and it's like , hey , that's good stuff .

I mean that shows you , you know . And then the little tricks of the trade of you know , hey , one guy's masking up , the other one's flowing water to mask up and go . You know that just those little quick tidbits that you know helps people . Well , I tell you , what .

You watch two minutes of a three hour movie and think you've got the plot , because that ain't it , brother . It ain't about fighting fire from the outside . It's about using to reach your stream , making more tentable for the victim and then getting in there and doing

your job . Now , you would never , in a burning building , go past fire . You put it out . You don't walk past fire . Why would you do it outside ? And if you apply that water in a certain way , it's going to be better for the victims .

Now , if you don't want to do that , because you want to go in and feel the heat and all that , please get out of the fire service , because you're not a fireman . Firemen take care of victims and that's ego . Ego's like fuck that big fire , I'm going to go inside and get it . No , man , don't be that guy .

You're now putting at risk a little Johnny and the Spider-Man pajamas on the ground . Because you want to prove what a badass you are , Put water in the window If you got the opportunity . Cool that area , contract those gases , make it better for your victims . But if you're one of those boner firemen brothers , just go be a cop or something .

If you're all about to ego , go be a cop , because that ain't it , brother , we're here for them . Period , flat , full stop , end of story . We're here for them , and if that means we got to spray a little bit of water on the outside while we're doing a 360 and make things better , let's do that shit .

It could drop the floor temperature hundreds of degrees .

And so , you know , engine company , we don't carry saws in our engines , but so I had one guy forcing the door with hand tools and then the other guys flowed water from the outside the time the second crews got there , you know , we made entry , done it , and they're like I bet you guys had a lot of fire .

I was like , yeah , we did , we just put a lot of it out and you know , and honestly , you could actually see like the line of demarcation , like exactly where it stopped . It was pretty impressive , oh really , oh yeah , yeah , the only thing that there was a knee wall that you could see where it still had a hotspot at , but I mean it was a perfect .

Like when you're talking about that exterior application making a 10 , well , making it making a difference , that was a good one and we've really our department has really went to making those type of , you know , attacks . I mean it's not uncommon . I wasn't on it a week or so ago . They had a .

They had a really good two store , a row apartment fire and they did a great job and it makes you feel good because it was some of the recruits I just had Did a like a second floor . They did an exterior hit and when it went in I mean it was like boom , knocked it down like right now .

And so you know and that stuff , like I get some of that stuff . You know , brad Fritz goes out , he's the PIO and he takes photos and stuff and he was telling me some stuff about that and he says it was exactly like what we talk about . And you know that if we would have had a video it would have been , like , you know , perfect to show some .

Now Right , any certification you get firefighter one , firefighter two , fire officer one , two , three , four , whatever it is . Whatever certification you get in the fire service , it's not a finish line , it's the starting point . It's a license to learn .

It doesn't mean you're now the perfect rope rescue guy or the perfect firefighter , fire or firefighter one or two guy . That means you've put in the effort to start your career and if you're one of those firefighters and you don't , you don't keep up on your skill set and you don't keep learning and driving and pushing and teaching others .

You're not a fireman , I'm sorry . You're a city employee . Our job , our job demands , our job , demands that we constantly learn , we constantly care and we put our citizens first , and that's what we need to keep in mind Now . Now we'll say this anybody says my podcast for any amount of time knows I've been a big bag of shit at work before .

I went through a period where I felt like you know , I'm settled in , I'm , I know everything , I'm good for any run . I actually remember this is no shit , scott . I remember at my worst when I was the biggest piece of shit mutt firefighter you ever saw . I remember thinking I don't have to learn anymore .

I remember thinking that thought , like man , this is nice to be this part of my career , that I can handle any emergency . Now I truly thought that that's pretty arrogant . If you look , go back and look at that , but it's a truth , that's what I thought , and then I started getting more and more into training , more and more into learning .

Then the big shift for me came when I just put it all in perspective I'm not here for me , I'm not here for even anybody in the fire and the fire department . I'm here for the victims , for the patients , for the people outside the fire department , and if you change your perspective on that , you can't help but move into a better fire career .

But yeah , to your point earlier , you don't just you don't stop learning . Right , who wants to go to a cardiologist ? It's you know , said you know . I got my certificate about 30 years ago . Hey , let me cut your chest open . Fuck , no , what's up ? It stays on top of shit .

You know if you're changing high rise loads , you know high rise operations , whatever . But you know if you're not willing , in everything's a fight which you know , a lot of departments run into that like , oh , that's , I'm just , that's , I'm not doing .

You know this way , I was taught this , what we're doing and you know , and that that's always , I mean I'm , you know everybody has that , you know every department , and it's the delivery , that is how you do it .

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