S3 E36: Igniting Leadership with Chief J. Taylor of Pearland Fire

And he comes there with all kinds of experience , because he retired from the Irving Fire Department in Texas And before that he might have been a professional actor , author , presenter . He was an NCAA Division I football referee for over 20 years . I'm telling you this guy has done it all .

He's empathetic , he understands the firefighter , he understands the needs of the firefighter , the fire service . Please listen and enjoy with that , chief Taylor . As always , today's podcast is sponsored by Fire Facilities . Makers of reliable all-American steel fire training structures built the way you train Fire facilities .

Towers , burn rooms and mobile units help you prepare to respond and survive . So anyway , they've already heard the introduction . They've probably heard me brag on you already , so I know It's great to have you on here .

Sir , you made a huge impact on me when I met you down in Perlin several months ago , so thank you so much for being on my podcast , brother .

you know , that was a great opportunity for me and getting to know you a little bit and starting to build a friendship and then follow that up at FDIC with our discussion there .

We had a little quick podcast there at Fire Facilities , but it's going great down here still , just like I said a few minutes ago , it's getting really hot , really quick down here in the Houston area .

where I'm in a building right now that the AC is having issues too , so it's about 82 degrees , so it's a lot better than you know . over a hundred index outside You have to take your poison .

Paralyn is probably one of my favorite places ever on the face of the earth , simply because the culture there is so good , the people there are fantastic and I'm including Stroud really really good people . Of course , your AC is Jacob Johnson and you two together are a powerhouse .

So when we were at FDIC now I've been up to FDIC before and I will see chiefs and hey , chief , what's going on ? You know you're up here by yourself . Oh , no , no , no , i got my other guys with me . They're out doing something else . Or I'll see a group of guys Hey man , what's going on ? Oh , come up with our chief . Or is your chief ?

Oh , he's out doing something else . That wasn't the case with you . You had your people with you the whole time . To me , that speaks volumes of your leadership . So what's the secret sauce ? Come on , it's got to be some complicated algorithm .

So I have two assistant chiefs Curtis Burt , over operations , who he's renowned in training from coast to coast and has been very prolific and given a lot back to FDIC over the years . And then Jacob Johnson , who I have , is my administrative assistant chief .

So , and with that and my division chiefs that I have here , we have a great team that I inherited and I was just blown away . I've been here just over a year May 16th was my year anniversary here in Paraland And the team that I inherited and what we've been able to uncover here and move in the right direction is just a .

it's been amazing with the talent that we have and finding those talents and putting those talents in the direction that's benefitting our entire organization .

So at FDIC with our group we had a group of passionate folks that wanted to be at FDIC and very involved in some of them , and they were on the trading committee , on the apparatus committee , ppe committee , you name it .

So they have those passions , that we put them in place so they can check out what the new technologies are and what might make us better and safer as we move along in the future , and how we can translate that and communicate and educate our city staff and city manager's office and elected officials on how these things are a benefit to us and they become needs

and not wants . So having those conversations with them helps them better understand what we're trying to get to as an administrative staff to relay those messages in a positive vein so that it benefits our department and organization moving forward .

Now it's okay to be humble and say , but I'm going to tell you from my perspective , having met you several times now , been with you several times , you're just a great guy and the staff around you are great people and your firefighters are great people . So , yeah , i mean , i get what you're saying , but you're just a nice guy . You get it . You're a chief .

But if you told me , if you and I were having a conversation and I had no idea you were a fire chief and you told me you were a truck captain , well , if you said a truck captain , i'd be disappointed , but if you're an engine captain , I was .

Athletics isn't your , your big passion , so you have your patent answers that you use around the water cooler , cooler that you think will get you out of any sports talk jam , which I've already found holes in a couple of them .

. What are your thoughts on that , Jake ?

I think it's great because those three , those three points you have , are awesome Cause it does it . Give me your other two .

Every morning I wear a university Cincinnati's pullover to go to the gym because my daughter is going there . So I'm just supporting my lovely daughter , Yeah , And I've been stopped and they're like , Hey , what about that quarterback ?

And they name his name and all this stuff And I'm like using my questions And if they keep talking to me , they realize I'm an idiot And then I just kind of walk away . So yeah . I'm not a sports guy , never have been .

I think that being sincere and checking your ego at the door and firefighters can see right through somebody who is egotistical or confrontational in the wrong way or selfish , and even if you say the right things , your actions are what leads you to where they get the buy in or they don't get the buy in .

And so I think that's very important just to be yourself and understand that . For me personally , if I'm in a room with a group of people I know right , then I'm not the smartest person in that room because collectively they're going to blow my doors off .

So I don't ever walk in there egotistically thinking I'm the smartest , smartest individual in the room , because they'll embarrass you really quick if you have that mindset .

Matter of fact , we just recently well , you know this , you already know about the leadership class that me and Christina were putting together . So one of the comparisons I brought up was the Allen Iverson talking about training or practice . We're talking about practice is practice . And then the next one I showed Michael Jordan , where he's talking about practice .

He treats practice like a game And I thought those are great comparisons , especially to what we do Now . Just the fact that they do sports names . You've got to be impressed .

You want to have controlled failure so that you don't have uncontrolled failure out on the fire ground of the emergency scene So that something bad happens that you can't overcome . You get somebody hurt or , god forbid , killed .

So that's why we're so , so passionate about the training that we do and putting those parameters in place to be safe and have that controlled failure . Because we want you to fell on the fire on the training ground , because if we fail there and we learn from those in our hot washes and we come back and talk about it , how can we get better ?

That's just X's and O's and learning how we made mistakes on the field or on the fire ground and how we can can be better about that . When we get in the actual game situation , whether it be an actual fire or a game itself , that's how you continually improve and talk about your mistakes . Look at film , look at flaws , try to get better .

Look at 360 degree evaluations . If you're in administration , whatever it is , at whatever level you are at the organization , how can you

get better ? I had people for many years and every walk of life , but I'll use football officiating for a while . I was very blessed to move all the way up and be a Division I football official for several years And my last 10 years were a lot of that was in the Big 12 , and my last five were in the SEC Southeastern Conference .

And there were always those young officials or officials that had more experience , that had moved up to that level , that always felt like they were cut short or didn't have that opportunity .

But when you talk to them and you learn that they weren't somebody that wanted to put the effort in to get prepared , wanted to do the round the clock 365 days a year , reading and having their nose in the rule book , watching film , getting out and working out , learning the nuances of that position and officiating and making yourself better day by day by day ,

because the ones that are at that level have done that . It's just not . You don't just fall into that position and football officials don't just show up on Saturday and officiate a ball game .

It actually is 365 days of preparation and I would spend 20 , 25 hours a week , especially during the season , just watching film , and so the study habits is what set you apart . The little things that you do is what set you apart , not only as an individual but as an organization .

And it's just as simple as if you're a , if you're a tailboard firefighter and you walk in by and the mix is low and a chainsaw , you fill it up . If something spilled , you clean it up . You don't walk by it and leave it for somebody else .

And that sounds very small , but it's basic , but it's not , because they'll talk about an o-ring brought down the shuttle . Well , that's normalization of deviance .

It becomes normalized and just deviate from the norm or what's expected , and you do it to a level that you start justifying that and it becomes okay , that becomes normal , and then something bad happens And so , but doing the little things every time , not only is it the right thing to do , but it's also a great example of those around you .

It makes you better . Eventually , it makes the organization better , and you do these things on a larger scale than the next thing . You know . Other departments and other organizations are looking at your organization to see what you're doing different .

They want to emulate that and there's no higher praise that you could receive from another organization is hey , can you send me that rookie task book or that , the engine task book that you have , or the truck task book or your response model things that you've worked on .

That I'm not going to take credit , for I have folks that have built that and built that together and done an outstanding job with that , but it is putting our department at a level where we're very increasing that professionalism and doing things in a way that we want to do to continue to raise that bar .

And if we can help other departments , other organizations by sharing that , we don't want them to share our name . They don't need to do that .

Put their name on it , morph it to what works for them , make them better , because that's what it's all about , and so , whether they're teamwork within our house or across the country , you know that's we've got to help each other out to make it better and safer for everybody involved .

So to say that you people are calling you about your department even sets you up even higher , in my opinion . So I came down there a few months ago . I knew , i knew Chief Johnson , all excited about to see him and stuff , and I got to tell , i got to tell a story on you here . So day one we were teaching 1403 at your fire department .

Everybody treated us like gold , there's no doubt there . And so I walk around out of the classroom at Take a Left , go to the restroom and I see a white shirt and I see Jacob Johnson . Now I couldn't see you because I just barely caught it And he kind of looked at me like the wave and I kind of like , oh no , i'm interrupting a meeting .

So I quickly went to the bathroom , didn't even think twice about it . He comes back later that day . He goes man , why didn't you come say hi to me ? I'm like , oh , you're at a meeting . And then he told me something that is absolutely changed my life and my outlook on leadership .

So he said no , no , no , no , no , that we have mandatory coffee every morning in the break room . Everybody's invited , everybody . I'm like wait what He's like ? yes , i think it's 730 . The chief is there , i'm there And I'm like so what do you talk about ? fire department stuff ?

He goes maybe it's whatever you want to talk about , it's an accessibility to the staff . So now I'm thinking , okay , this is like the coolest thing I ever heard . But maybe , maybe , you know , chief Johnson is kind of , you know , making it a little bit nicer than it really was . Spoiler alert , he wasn't , he was underselling it , if anything .

So put a pin in that story . Now I'm going to back up . So now it's day one , we're teaching . So I did that , and then we get ready to start the class . Day one where you come in and start introducing yourself before we started class . Sometimes we have the chiefs there , sometimes we don't . I'm not , i'm not bagging on the chiefs that are not there .

Okay , sometimes it's a bigger department , i understand , sometimes smaller department , i understand . So , to paint the picture here , i think Chief I think Chief Taylor's around eight foot 32 inches pretty tall guy . So he's walking around to all these people in the class asking their name , shaking their hands and thanking them for being there .

Am I , am I telling a lie , sir ? Nope , that's the truth . I've never , ever seen that . So I look at one of your chiefs and I apologize And I go , cause I didn't know he were . I was like who is that ? He goes . Oh , that's , that's Chief Taylor . I said that's chief , that's the chief of the department .

Yep , i said he's shaking about that time you come up to me and you shake my hand . So then a couple hours go by it . Now let's take a pair out of that story . That's when Chief Johnson tells me about the coffee And I said I was intrigued . I said , dude , can I please come be part ? Oh yeah , absolutely No problem .

So then I get to have coffee with you the next day . We get there early . I tell my partner , chris Hubbard . I said , hey , i want to go in and have coffee with him . I didn't tell him the whole story yet . I was sitting in there and it was the most amazing leadership tool I have ever experienced And I wish I liked the vocabulary .

I like the imagery , is just sitting down with the staff talking .

People said Hey , people ask questions . And then me and Chris are just in heaven . We're just like I can't believe that this is happening . It's such a simple tool Again empathy and connection . Your staff has that . And the thing that I like the most I remember me talking about the Ferrari analogy .

So I'm sitting there just smiling the whole time just watching this amazing leadership tool playing out And I told you all . I said you know , do you think people that own Ferraris ever just walk out to the car one day and go , holy cow , how lucky am I , i got a Ferrari ?

And to say I hope that the brothers and sisters that work with you walk past that every morning and go , how cool is this ? that I have this access to the chief to ask him about fire department stuff , football stuff , which I think has a net , a football net , and then or is acting . I mean , it's just such a great accessibility .

I'm not , i'm underselling it and I apologize . Tell me about that and how that began , because it is an amazing tool .

And it was an informal , we called it no rank hour , so we would just sit down there and visit And I would say I bet you're to say that Chief Conley and the guys to this day still do that .

What's a little bit different here ? and some from some of the troops in the field would stop by from time to time because they may be coming back to switch out a uniform or something like that . The difference here is when I first got here it wasn't as much of an open door policy . It was a little different than how I operate . I'll put it that way .

But when I first got here I took it for granted and I just went in and sat in the break room my first day and got a cup of coffee and I'm sitting in there . I'm all by myself . And then the thing about our fire admin here . It's where all our in house training is . So the crews come through here .

Well , crews started migrating through and they'd peek in the door and , oh hey , chief , how are you ? And just keep going . So now come on in . Well , they were very hesitant to come in and talk And eventually I said come on in , there's no rank here , there's no rank hour . Come on in And we would start talking .

And so over time it's morphed into you saw it ? We may have on a Friday , depending on who's in or out , we may have one or two people in there , and there's been times where we have standing room only And even though the fire marshal is in our building , he doesn't hold us to it .

But we've had , you know , 18 , 20 people in that room and laughing , and laughing so hard You're trying to stay off the floor , depending on what you're talking about . But at the same time we also we may talk about a little bit of business , or somebody has a question about something , a question or concern or an idea .

Some great ideas have come up through sitting there at the table , and so what has happened with that ? It kind of breaks down . It breaks down that linear , especially your less experienced firefighters . They're afraid to say something . I'll grab them and bring them in there . What do you think ? Where are you from ?

Do you live in Paral-An , how long have you been on ? But it's helped me quickly get to know my personnel because I like to know them And , in short fashion , i've really , you know , i don't know all of them really well , but I know them all a little bit And so I'm getting better about that every day .

But through that you learn about them as a person , you learn a little bit about what makes them tick and you know how their families are built .

Sometimes what it's led to for me personally is a couple of them more than a couple have come into my office and shared some personal experiences or difficulties that they're having that have nothing to do with the organization And , yes , we have a very , very progressive and proactive peer support program .

But I've actually had some come in and talk to me and I take that as one a sign of respect , but also the fact that there's a little bit of trust starting to build there and share my expertise and any advice just life advice I can share with them . But I love people and I think that reciprocates .

but I really care and I am empathetic towards our folks And , like I've always said , if you're not sincere about that , they can

see through you . Nobody can see through you like a firefighter . Can They see through you immediately ? And so where are my motions on the sleeve ? I mean , i'll hug somebody If they're having a hard time . I may tear up , but that's okay . I don't apologize for that , but I can promise you I can be tough when I need to be tough .

I have no problem with that . But it's just a matter of having those personal relationships and building those And the trust that we've built around that table as crews have come through over this year and with my admin staff and assistant chiefs and farm marshals , office code enforcement , who also have under the fire department , which is unique here .

All those folks have about 30 in this building under me , and so then we have the operations folks out there with our 135 and six stations . But so we're not a huge department , not a small department .

We're a great size and we're continually growing and we're wanting to reinforce and build that culture , that one way about family , whether it's at the station or beyond , and we care about the people that we fight with every day , and that's important And to know that we constantly tell them we'll defend you to the death .

Just don't put us in a position where we can't defend you . Don't do something that renders it defenseless , well , we can't help you . So there's been some opportunities to prove that point throughout the year too . So I think we're heading in a great direction .

But that that break room table , as simple as it sounds , you know no place in the world or problem solved like they are around the kitchen table . That's at the house or at the firehouse . That's how it all is .

And when you're at the firehouse , we all know you sit there in the morning and some of the most I've been around people that have education as high up as you can go But some of the most intelligent , common sense slain people that I've ever met was sitting around a firehouse .

And if you just sit there and use the two ears and one mouth concept that God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason and you sit and listen , especially as a young , impressionable firefighter then you can learn about the cattle business , welding , how to fix any problem with a car , vehicle , a house , marital issues It doesn't matter where you are , what

firehouse , anywhere across America or the world . Those conversations are being had every day And you can learn so much from people that have experienced that .

If you're just willing to be receptive and think outside the box and listen to different ideas , it's amazing how you can learn and grow just sitting there and listening and kind of being a sponge because I always say diversity of thought is what allows an organization to grow or you grow as an individual , and if we were all just the same , we would never get

anything accomplished . So that's the basis of that And I always say there's only two things that make me feel like a firefighter . Still , because I'm a fire chief And when I meet people I don't tell them I'm a fire chief . They may find that out 10 minutes into the conversation , but I'm a firefighter .

I'm a firefighter at heart And I love the fact that I am a firefighter . So that's how I introduce myself , but having pride in that , there's two things that make me feel like a firefighter . One , i get to sit at that break room table , which reminds me of the station , the firehouse table , and two , i get to wash my SUV that I drive .

Other than that , i don't get to do anything . that makes me hardly feel like a firefighter , other than I get to get out and train with them And I love doing that , so that's fun as well .

But I've seen the open door policy can be exploited from time to time , as can , i guess , really the closed door policy . So with you being so informal in within your department and your in your coffee time and all that does anybody ever . I can't phrase it that way , i don't say anything like that . Has it ever had any problems too ?

Like maybe people forget that they are talking to the chief or maybe they forget that this isn't a conversation to have in front of everybody else ? Does an open door policy ever kind of cross that line ?

So we're sitting there , maybe just me and my two assistants , She's are sitting at the table and we've had a little quiet conversation we're having about maybe a personnel issue or something going on And somebody walks in that shouldn't be involved in that conversation . If somebody's talking , I said we'll cover this one later , when we do .

Or if I have somebody walk in my office and I always tell them if it's operational , if it's an idea , I want to hear it . But don't bring me a gripe unless you bring me a solution . If you have a solution with it , I'll listen to it . But if it's something that's operational , I want to know that you've come up through the chain first .

If you let your officer know and you've come up through Chief Byrd or Chief Johnson and say , hey , I want to run this by you , I'm good with it .

But if it's something that's operational , it affects the operations and affects the masses , then I want them to have gone through that and just taken that informal step to go through them , and then I'm good with it . I always clarify with that .

But if they come in and they're talking about anything other than that , or they have a good idea or they just have a question , that's open game . We'll talk about whatever they want to talk about . But it's my responsibility as Chief to make sure that we don't cross that line .

But I'm also quick to steer them in an area that's away from something operational or something that needs to go through that chain . So we'll get on something that's more informal , that maybe a learning point that we can talk about or a leadership point . And I have several that come up that have different passions that I like .

Some like to talk about leadership books , Others like to talk about their pets or things that they do with that , or others they're part-time business , or they're hauling business or mowing business , you name it . There's so many things you could talk about . But then they bring ideas . Hey , Chief , what do you think about this ?

And I'll say well , how does that benefit the organization ? Does it benefit a few , or does it benefit the majority of our organization . Well , just the majority , yes , Well , let's talk about it . And when we talk about it I'll say all right now I want you to go run that up through your captain , up through the chain .

I think that's a good idea And we'll let the proper steps take control of that and see if that will vet it out and see if it works for our department . If they give me an idea that I think it's a great idea . But let me explain to you A , B and C need to happen before we get there .

It's a budget situation or we've already talked to city council and we know that we need to get these two steps in place before we do . That's a great idea .

Those topics tend to come up and we do around-taple talks that we've done a couple of times , where we go sit at every single station in front of every single crew and just have a Q&A and talk to them and kind of give them a state of the department and answer questions .

And the first time I did that , a year ago , I got very few questions because they were very hesitant , to be quite honest . But now we've gone back through and talked to each of our 18 crews plus our folks here in Fire Admin and there are a lot more relaxed and have some really great questions , And they'll challenge you too And I'll tell them .

I don't mind being challenged . Ask me why we're doing something , because I'm big on sharing the why , And if you don't feel like you have a good perspective of why we are doing something , then we'll get better about that . But let me explain that why . If you don't understand it , Here's why this is occurring . Here's the back story to it .

As much as I can share , depending on , obviously , what that situation is . But I think that a lot of the time , folks in the field we'll all be in firefighters We'd like to know everything , but there's some things we just either can't know from a liability standpoint or just don't need to know .

But we can still , as chiefs , still share the why on a global scale and let them know here's why we're doing this and explain to them why we're doing it , how it benefits everybody , And usually nine times out of 10, . When you do that , you'll get a couple of follow up questions and then they're good .

They just want to be heard and they want to understand it . And as firefighters , there's two things we don't like and it's changing the things the way they are . You've heard people across the world say that , but it's so true .

We like to scratch it and sniff it and kick it around a little bit and taste it , And if it doesn't kill us , well , that's probably okay . So to kind of expedite that , we just try to share that why and just talk to them on a personal basis and let them understand . Here's what we can do Now . Can you do that every time ?

No , there's times I have to send an email out to the masses or I have my operations chief or chief Johnson send out , send that out to explain something as best we can And , as everything happens , we send something out where there's a promotional process . That here's our new promotional process . We're trying to do is to make it fair for everyone .

But there's 135 sets of legal eyes out there so they catch every P and Q And even though you're trying to do it as perfectly as possible , we aim for perfection , but we hope for excellence , because you're never going to be perfect And then we're going to make mistakes , but we try to limit those as much as we can and correct them to the benefit and to the

best interest of everybody involved . So as long as I think they're seeing that we're trying to do it in the right way and our focus is on making it a better place for them , a more fair , equitable professional organization , we're going to continue to take that upper trajectory . I think that that's working well for us so far . But are we perfect ?

No , And if we think we are in trouble but you have to check your ego at the door and be willing to say you know what ? I kicked that one , How can we do that better ? Or if I have an idea that's just a bonehead idea , I'm not afraid to come back and say you know what calf rope that didn't work . I'm taking it back .

Let's reevaluate that and put that back out . It's okay . You don't want to do it every day . That's a problem too . But every now and then there's a mistake that's made . But you know I don't want to . We don't want to make a habit of it , obviously .

But you just have to be self-effacing and be able to say you know , I kicked that call , I kicked that decision , and let's talk about that and let's make it better . Or if that was bad altogether , let's just pull it back and regroup and go down a different road .

I mean all the buzzwords that people are trying to do now it seems to me that you and your staff do almost effortlessly . So , for those who don't know me and Christina I don't know how long ago this was our goal was to help improve the culture of our department .

So , like I just come back from visiting you all and I said , hey , christina , i experienced this , all the stuff that I said , and she's like I really want let's talk to them .

So we were able to zoom with you and Chief Johnson and she got to experience , because her only experience with the fire department pretty much is us And not that that's a horrible thing , but if you want to help a culture get even better , you need to look around and see what else is out there , and I think you all provided that for us .

Now here's what blows me away I go there and you know me and Chris Hubbard are like Chief Hubbard , like this is a really nice department . People are happy . Good culture , good chief , good blah , blah , blah . But come to find out that you all had a culture change over a year .

nothing horrible , nothing like miserable , but you were able to take what culture they had and even make it better What were your . Was that something that you knew you had to do ? hit the ground running , or did you experience that saying , hey , you know , we're at an eight or nine , we could ramp it up to a 10 . So what was that like ?

but there were some culture issues that need to be addressed And I knew that I needed to come in and one show them that you know , when I walk in the door , i'm just another guy in a white shirt doing this .

you know another guy with bugles on my collar , and so they don't know if what I'm saying has any validity to it or if I'm going to actually walk the talk . they don't know that And I told them that . I said you're looking at me right now thinking I wonder if this guy has any merit to what he's saying . I'm going to tell you what's about .

here's what's about to happen with this organization , and it's not because of me . it's about what you're about to accomplish . You're about to see how talented you are . We're going to run in a direction and we're going to start implementing things that make us better as a department . Your passions are going to be built upon . We're going to find your talents .

We're going to start building this department , running with it our social media that we've never had with this department in a positive way . We're going to put that out there , because my job as a fire chief is to shout your successes from the rooftops . That's what I do .

Whether I go to a civic group , i go to the elected officials or I go to my city manager's office . my job is to inform them how great you are , and I take that personally and I don't miss an opportunity to do that . And that also goes to social media .

I know you follow me on our Parallel Fire Department Facebook and then they also have an official Parallel Fire Chief , jay Taylor , which is a long one . So I get on there and talk about what we're doing , where we're going , but through that I also allow them to use your social media .

Use your social media to share the things we're doing , share the pictures from the fires , talk about what we're doing , because what had started happening , what I'd seen , was we'd actually lost a few people before I got here and right after I got here . that had nothing to do with the change in leadership . It had to do with .

I want to go fight more fires at this department , department A , when really , in essence , they saw it on social media . And when you go to that department you're only at one station , one shift , one part of town at the time and you're not fighting all the fires that they fight .

They're not fighting any more fires at that city than we fight here in Parallel And there's been four or five that left and three of them have come back and realized that the grass wasn't greener .

So once we've opened that up and people started seeing what we're doing , i said you're going to see our recruiting change to where we start improving the quality of candidates that we get .

And again , it's not going to be because of me , it's going to be because of you , because candidates aren't going to contact Chief Taylor , they're going to contact Firefighter Joe and say , hey , why do you like it there ? Or do you like it there ? And they're going to .

they'll know real quick if it's legit or not And they'll tell them if that person contacting them is worth a damn . they're going to bend over backwards to get them signed up and show here's the link , i'll send it to you , i'll get you signed up But to be quite honest , if they're not worth a damn . they'll say . I think it's on our website .

Good luck finding that . So our folks are bringing in . they're bringing in great people and they're our grassroots recruiters . It's the best thing we can do . We've also partnered with a couple colleges here locally so they do their probationary firefighters when they're going through Academy .

They do their burns here And that allows us to have some face-to-face time and kind of have a recruiting opportunity there . We're also partnering with departments around us that don't have the availability of a facility like we have . So we're bringing them in and training with them and surrounding departments And one .

it builds relationships between both departments because we mutual aid with them , but also it allows us to grow that and cultivate young talent that may want to come work in parallel in some day . So it all builds on itself . but quickly , the last two exams we had are just amazing .

the amount of talent that we have And we're just about to hire three right now , so off our last test . But really the level of talent that we're getting in here is just amazing . It's because of what they're doing and that people are seeing what we do and that in 2007 we hired our first 18 professional firefighters . Before that it was a volunteer department .

So this department is in its infancy .

The previous chief was adding firehouse , firehouse , firehouse , adding personnel , and that was daunting because they had to do it so quickly because this city went from 30,000 people in 2003 to right under 140,000 currently and still growing quickly . So there was a big change and they had to do that .

But in between all those station additions and personnel , chief Burt likes to say it was like skipping a rock . Well , now we have to go back and fill those skips .

So the little things that he and I took for granted , being at old departments that have been around for years and years and years and had long traditions , that we have replacement programs for apparatus , for bunker gear , flashlights , you name it Those little things that you take for granted at a department that's been around for 100 years , those are the things

we're putting in place here because so much had to be done so quickly to keep up , you know . And so it's changed the gears now . Last year was fast and furious . We're adding some staffing to get us to the right ratio . We need to be more at a 1.2 to 1.3 to 1 ratio for every position where they had to hire at 1 to 1 through those years .

It's put us in a kind of a daunting scenario where the mandatory overtime is crippling . But we're overcoming that . We've educated our not only our finance staff city managers , elected officials that 1.2 to 1.3 to 1 ratio puts us in that sweet spot that it has just enough healthy overtime , but not too much .

You know , no overtime is healthy and too much is overtime is not healthy . But you need to find that sweet spot to see what works for your municipality . And I told them within this range , let's see what works for us And we think 1.2 to 1 works .

So we have 42 bucks in the seats every day that we have to have , and when I got here we had 43 assigned to two shifts and 44 on the other , but we let five off every day on accrued benefits . You know leave . So you're already in the hole by three before you ever start to shift .

49 at a minimum is where we need to be So that education is taking place . And now we're at 45 across the board , graciously because of our city council understanding that need , and we're working towards that 49 per shift . And then we've just passed firehouse seven .

It's coming on board soon and they're going to hire it at their correct ratio so that we don't get take one step forward and two step back , so to speak . So it's just constant education and pushing the mantra and talking about what are the needs of our department , not the wants . And I correct it and I'm quick

to correct folks . I had a lady that was at a council meeting recently , not an elected official , but she came up and she said I hope you get all the wants that you have on your list . And I said well , man , with all due respect , they're not wants , they're needs . I said we don't ask for wants .

I said we have empirical data that back up what we asked for . She was oh , i mean , i mean needs . I said yes , ma'am , they're needs . And so , because she had spoke against it , but then came right around to me and said I hope you get your wants , i said they're not wants , these are needs .

We have empirical data that backs up every one of those points And I'm happy to discuss them with you at any point . And I said I also appreciate the fact that you took the time to speak your mind , because you have that right , but I'm happy to share that data with you at any point .

And so , actually , she and I have hit it off very well since then and we've had a lot of great conversations because of that .

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