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The Sunday Showdown with Clare Rowe

Jun 08, 202536 min
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Episode description

This week, Luke Grant is joined by Leading Child Psychologist, Clare Rowe, for The Sunday Showdown.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Whoa across Australia. This is Weekends with Luke Grant. But you gotta keep your head up then you can let your hand up.

Speaker 2

You gotta keep your head.

Speaker 1

Up, then you colects your hand up. I know it's no it's all to remember sometimes.

Speaker 2

But you gotta keep your head up.

Speaker 1

Then you can let your head down. Good morning, Welcome to Weekends with Luke Grant. It's great to be with you on two GB in Sydney, four BC in Brisbane and via the two GB app and the four BC app to listeners all around Australia on Sunday, the eighth of June. Winter is in full force for many parts of our great country today. There's been up to seven inches of snow and some of the key resorts in the last twenty four hours and we've got single digit tops I say single digit ditch to tops even in

Canberra and for Sydney in the mid teens. That's where we find ourselves today. There's a sheep gravti is warning for cold tempts, rain and showers westerly winds expected during today and tomorrow, with areas likely to be affected including large parts of New South Wales and the acteat even extends even extends to parts of the mid North Coast, the Hunter even the Illawarra and South Coast forecast districts. There is that risk of loss of lamb and sheep

exposed to these conditions. It's it's winter in Australia. Rug up in those areas, or get yourself to Queensland Brisbane today sunny and twenty three. Now allow me, if you will, to break with what is normal on this show by speaking to a distinguished guest on this King's Birthday long weekend in many states and territories, except notably Queensland and w Way. For my Sydney listeners and those visiting the Harbour City, a wonderful event that is a must I

reckon today. Everyone's invited to come to Government House as the Governor marks the King's Birthday at Sydney's Castle by the Harbor. The event is on from ten this morning until three this afternoon and importantly entry is free of charge. But as you'd understand, there's no parking on site, so probably public transport is your friend here. Now, amongst other things, you can enjoy the music of the Australian Army Band, you can explore the spectacular state rooms, even see the

dining table dressed for a vice regal occasion. And you can have a picnic in the gardens. How wonderful. So who best to talk about the King's birthday at the house. Let me say a very good morning to her Excellency the Honorable Margaret Beasley, Governor of New South Wales, who is on the line. Governor. An honor to be speaking to you today. I hope you.

Speaker 3

Will good morning, Luke, very well and really excited to see welcoming everybody who wants to become the Government House today because it'll be a beautiful day.

Speaker 1

It will.

Speaker 3

I've been out and I've looked at the harbor, the sun of sparkling of the waters. It is a little crisp, so the best advice is certainly to rug up, but cann't have a picnic in the gardens. It's just a wonderful.

Speaker 1

Day, a wonderful opportunity for people to see the castle by the harbor close up with their very whole knives, and the history is remarkable. This is your official residence and office. You're the twenty eighth governor to occupy this Government House. You've been governor. I think since May and twenty nineteen in the sixties, you've been there. I'm sure you have a favorite place, do you in the house to unwind, or perhaps a view you never get tired of.

Speaker 3

It's got to be the morning view, Luke. It's just beautiful. I'm very fortunate that the residents, which I have to assure people, does not look like the state rooms. So the staterooms are something else to be seen. But the residents still look out to the east and so every morning that's some comes up round about five five point thirty and it is spectacular.

Speaker 1

Yeah, the history is fascinating. In seventeen eighty eight, the first governor of the Colony of New South Wales, Arthur philippilaid the foundations of the first government House. I think the building located then in Bridge Street. In eighteen thirty six, construction finally began on a new government house. The new building influenced in its location and architectural style by the existing Governor's stables. They were completed in eighteen twenty one.

Now the Conservatorium of Music. Locally quarried sandstone was used for the construction. It was designed by Edward Blow, architect to William the fourth and Queen Victoria. He'd recently built the British Houses of Parliament, so there's a kind of a unity in design there. And after years of delay, really in budget over runs, the house was completed in eighteen forty five and that's when Governor Sir George Gibbs, the ninth Governor of the state, and his wife took

up residents. Now, of course it's been extended, refurbished and the like. But today I'm right, Governor right, I'm saying it holds a significant collection of portraits and furniture and decorative arts and memorabilia as a result of the vice regal patronage. That's true, isn't it.

Speaker 3

Certainly? And indeed the portraits are very interesting. They're big, and they're old, and they line the hallway. But we are the only government house in Australia that has a portrait of every governor since seventeen eighty eight, and that in itself is very interesting. But it also in many ways tells you part of the history of not only the House, but indeed of the of state of New South Wales. Has it been developed and of course became part of the Commonwealth, so it is very interesting and

we use the portraits our guides here. I have to tell your listeners are just wonderful, and they're wonderful and they're friendly and they're inderformative and they often use the portraits to tell a particular part of the history, not only of the house but of New South Wales generally.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you mentioned for listeners potentially going along to enjoy the gardens with a picnic. There'll be the Australian Army Band there. I'll played midday one and a two pm. State rooms will be open for expiration slash inspection and the dining table dressed for a vice regal occasion I can only imagine, but there will also be guide dog handlers and the like. There's a two meter kings Cipher.

People are encouraged to take a selfie there and the garden sculpture walk, so there's plenty of things for people to do and they're entitled to bring their telephones in which there'll be a camera, no doubt. Plenty of long lasting memories.

Speaker 3

Absolutely, and that's the way we like to share the house with everybody. So these days are wonderful in any ways, an extension of our first Sunday of the month Jazz Days, when we have our various bands again playing sets from twelve, one and two and we invite people in and have a picnic. You don't have to book, you don't have to pay, obviously, but this is just a little more special today with particularly I think with the guide dogs.

I expect that we'll have today not guide dogs, but the companion dogs who are also trained by our guide Dogs Missus Wales. And it's just beautiful to see the way that the dogs are handled and to see that the benefit that they give to people in the community.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you're right, Governor. Thank you for sharing Government House with the people and all the best for what lives ahead, and thanks for everything you do. And in order to talk to you, thank you.

Speaker 3

But look, I need to know when you're coming back. You haven't been here since starting seventy seven.

Speaker 1

Well, if I got if the Boss is listening, and you could give me a little early mark, I'd be delighted to come and see you today. But I'll make that a priority for later in the year, no doubt. Again, thank you for your time.

Speaker 3

Sounds wonderful, Thank you, good on you.

Speaker 1

That's the honorable Margaret Beasley, her Excellency, Governor of New South Wales. I was there in nineteen seventy seven in my school pipe band. I was a drummer and the Queen was there with Prince Philip part of a I'm sure it was seventy seven or thereabouts. Anyway, it was very exciting and the family, oh, lukey's going to play for the Queen, and it was a real thrill. And I was just too junior to get to meet the

official party, you know. I could just tell the way that q E two was looking at the band that she picked out this six foot four side drummer and thought I should meet that young man. I was, I think fifteen or sixteen at the time. Through the maths. Yes, anyway, that's the New South Wales. The Honorable Margaret Beasley, all

right on with the show. The official weather in Sydney mostly sunny top tens in the city sixteen Penrith sixteen Paramatta fifteen bondying along the coast, it should get to about fifteen degrees in Brisbane you win sunny day tops in the city twenty three, twenty three at the Airport, Ipswich twenty three, Gold Coast twenty three and the Sunshine Coast twenty three. Now let's get into it. Just a few police matters from overnight before I give you the

latest on bro to Foe, the Trumpster, mask calamity. Let's call it cluster musk. I like that seriously. A man has died following a rollover involving a four wheel drive on a remote Queensland Island. Police say the nineteen year old was an occupant of the vehicle that was being driven on Beira Road on Mornington Island when the vehicle rolled. The nineteen year old Wellesley Island's man was thrown from the vehicle and sadly died at the scene. A second

man taken to hospital with minor injuries. In Sydney, please tell me a teenage boy will face court charged after a pedestrian was injured in a crash that's in Sydney Southwest overnight. Just before eleven pm yesterday, emergency services responded to the corner of Nelson and Sackville Street at Fairfield reports a vehicle had hit a pedestrian and a park car. Officers attended, along with ambulance paramedics who treated the pedestrian. A sixty six year old man for serious injuries. He

was off the hospital in a stable condition. The driver and passenger, both aged sixteen, located on Nelson Street A short time later. The driver arrested and charged with caused bodily harmed by misconduct in charge of motor vehicle, negligent driving, learner not a company there you go, failed to stop and assist after impact, and various other charges. He was given conditional bail. He'll appeared before a children's court Monday,

August fourth. Back to when his Land detectives had charged a man with attempted murder following a shooting in Bethania last night. It'll be alleged at five point fifty five pm, an argument occurred in Clarendon Street between two men known to each other. A sixty two year old man allegedly shot a thirty five year old man twice, once in the shoulder, once in the chest. The thirty five year old Bathania man was transported to Princess Alexandra Hospital. He

remains in a stable condition. The sixty two year old has been charged with one count each of attempted murder, action intended to cause grievous bodily harm and failed to securely store a weapon. He'll appear at Beenley Magistrate's Court tomorrow. And on the Gold Coast, the Forensic crash Unit investigating after a man was struck by a vehicle in Hollywell. Initial investigations indicated one oh five am a man walking on cattle Yard Street. It was struck by a Nissa Novara,

which then fled the scene. Twenty year old hollyball Man was transported to the Gold Coast University Hospital. He remains in a critical condition. The driver of the utility at twenty three year old Runaway bay Man, located by police a short time later and is assisting police in their inquiries. Now to Cluster Musk, President Trump says his relationship with Elon Musk was likely beyond repair after the two sparred publicly, of course, on social media this week. We told you

about that yesterday. He warned there would be quote serious consequences unquote if mister Musk financed candidates to run against Republicans who voted in favor of the President's domestic policy bill. Now to phone interview with the NBC journalist Kristen Welker, Trump said he had no plans to speak with Musk, calling the tech billionaire disrespectful to the office of president. When asked whether he had any desire to repair the relationship, he said no. Trump's of at a range of views

in his conversations over the past days. In some Trump has described Musk as somebody who's gone crazy. In others, he's expressed sympathy, as if mister Musk were a wayward sun. He's told associates that Musk is out of his mind on drugs, but at other times he said he wishes him well and has seemed to leave open the possibility of reconciliation. He's also dangled the threat of canceling contracts

that Musk's companies have with the federal government. Now, behind the scenes, people close to both men have tried to brocrade Detonte, and there have been some signs of a de escalation. Musk has deleted some of his most incendiary social media posts, and Trump has been more restrained by his standards. Advisers to Trump say they think the relationship

will never be the same again. Have to be too bright to you to think that is a likely outcome here to be Frank, what a cluster Musk on the show today, what a treat Today on the Sunday Sweet leading child psychologist Claire Rowe will join me in the studio.

There's lots to talk about. Australia's foremost gender medicine expert and the lead author of the nation's guidelines on gender affirming care, Michelle Telfer, was excoriated by a family called judge for giving this leading evidence in support of a mother who wanted her child to be prescribed puberty blockers. Now that's Judge Andrew Strum, who stripped the mother of custody and effectively blocked the twelve year old from accessing treatment.

Criticized the Royal Children's Hospital, Melbourne for failing to give the child a former gender dysphoria diagnosis until the court proceedings had commenced, despite having treated the child for six years. Hello. Also of note, a Monrash University study has found that fewer than one in five students who experience in his family violence disclosed it to a teacher or school counsel law, with more skipping school or becoming fearful of authority figures

with detrimental effects. Many of the more than sixteen hundred and fifty young people surveyed who'd experienced domestic and family violence said school was a place to avoid, with some dropping out entirely or regularly skipping class, reporting they would stay home to protect their parents. Can you believe that feed someone noticing bruises were unable to concentrate due to being kept up by fighting or at lost friendships at school.

That to me is so sad. I'll also ask Claire how a child psychologist might sort out and me call it again cluster Musk. Now, on Sundays we put these spotlight on an ordinary osti who's achieved extraordinary things. And today we have a ripper, well, look to be frank. Every week we have a ripper, but a blow called Andy Sishn. Not a household name, but he's with plenty of them. He's a bass guitarist. His toured with some

of the biggest names in music. We're talking the likes of Shania Twain, Billy Thorpe, Rose Tattoo Hello, currently playing his trade with the one and only Billy Joel Hello, who we know hasn't been too well of late. We actually became aware of Andy after a listener a made of Andy's called in to tell us that Billy was not in a good way when we wondered how genuine the original story was, so we wanted to find out

more about Andy's story. He's got plenty of stories, and he'll talk to me from New York City and tell me about life as Andy seeshon. We have been mentioning over the past few weeks these reports about people experiencing side effects after taking this a zembic medication. It's a weight loss thing and Andy diabetes thing. I told you last week of the story that claimed o zembic when jarro We guvey they're all similar medications had caused drug

induced teppatitis in some patients. Now, the link between ozenpic and hepatitis isn't clearly established at this stage. However, some studies are suggesting it may cause potential liver stress or damage, and medical experts are saying some patients should get regular checkups. And this followed a story from a fortnight ago claiming a number of people on these medications were suffering from

my disorders. The TGAID received ten reports of sudden vision loss caused by this got to be confirmed, with eight suffering full or partial blindness, two experiencing vision loss in one eye. Now, as I've said about this on multiple occasions, I'm not giving you any sort of advice. I'm not a doctor, but you probably have a doctor or a pharmacist and that's a matter for you and him or her or them or of course it's twenty twenty five it I don't want to suggest he shouldn't take the medication.

Absolutely not. It's undeniably done a lot of good for many. But a show like this has a well I think of responsibility to discuss with experts whether potential users should see these reports and take them seriously. So the chair of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners Specific Interests Diabetes Group, doctor Gary Dead, will walk us through all of this. Stephen Fennick will join me to talk about

tech in our second hour. He'll walk us through Tells to his new satellite messaging service, now available for tell Us to customers on a month to month's mobile plan. Initially, it will only work with a device from the Samsung Galaxy S twenty five series, but it's believed to also work with iPhone fourteen in the next few days. Stephen with all the details soon. Jim Haynes in our last hour reminiscing about old Australian movies. We are genuine trailblazers,

it must be said our quiz. All the breaking news and again plenty of time to talk to you. The open line one three one eight seven three, the text zero four six zero eight seven three eight seven three and new You can email me at TWOGB dot com, FOURBC dot com dot au. So that's what we have for you today. Thirteen degrees in Sydney right now, eighteen in Brisbane. This is weekends with Luke Grant on two

GBN four BC. Alrighty, plenty of texts. Thank you for those who said global warming, what are a load of hogwash? It's called living in Australia. Whatever. Thank you, Ronda, thanks very much for your note and another saying Luke, it was March nineteen seventy seven. The Queen was here part of a silver jubilee. Amazing that she lived another forty five years to celebrate seventy years. She died on my seventieth birthday. Is that right? Ros I will always remember

that date, of course you will. Thank you Roz for getting in touch. Now. A housing crisis update on the The Sabbath courtesy of the Telegraph Today, they say the answer to Sydney's housing crisis could be found in divine intervention. Look this will be a punathon. Just stay with me here. With Premier Chris Mins urged to seek help from a

higher power to build well located affordable homes. Now, with the Men's government scrambling for an alternative to build twenty five thousand homes at Rose Hill after that plan disintegrated, underused church land could be the answer to mister Min's prayers, warned you. A group of faith based organizations now urging Planning Minister Paul Scully to change planning rules to let churches build tens of thousands of homes on their land.

The Sunday Telegraph reveals that Premier Min's will look at letting churches build housing developments, with the Premier describing the pro proposal as a good idea. Across New South Wales, Faith Housing Australia has found seven hundred and forty seven faith owned sites within ten minutes walk of a train station,

which could be turned into twenty thousand affordable homes. The organization is calling for Planning Minister Paul Scully to allow churches to build homes on their land by relaxing zoning rules for places of worship. Do you reckon this is a good idea. Currently, homes are prohibited from being built on land zoned SP two, which is a place of public worship Faith Housing Australia Chair you'll know this name, Rob Stokes said that could be changed with the stroke

of a pen. Well he knows a former minister. This would allow faith groups to build homes on land zone for places of worship. That could add twenty thousand homes in some of the best located sites in Sydney and other key sites around the state. He said. Providing more opportunities for social and affordable housing consistent with the mission of faith groups will help address an acute community need. Well, I can tell you the premiere is well seemingly on board.

And if it's a stroke of a pen, one might say to old mate Rob Stokes, well that you were there long enough. Tell why didn't you do it? Well, he's already provided that answer. Nobody asked, there you go. Nobody asked me, isn't it funny? Everything's so reactionary. Could have gone on the front foot just saying, Hey, you see that three acres at the back. Any chance, with a stroke of a pen, I can make that happen. Oh, he wouldn't knock on the way up, but you know

what I mean. So as an alternative to rose Hill, maybe there's that you and I both know something has to happen. This may be it. Time will tell no Now on weekends the Sunday sweet looking at the stories of the week. Today a real tree joined in the studio by leading child psychologists, clear rogue, good day, love to see you.

Speaker 2

Thank you for having me. I love being in Well.

Speaker 1

Look, we referred to you as a great friend of the program. I don't want to just claim that as a thing. Are you comfortable with us using that expression, because if.

Speaker 2

You are, we can be friends. Luke program.

Speaker 1

So I told you, let's start here. This judge who's lambastterd Michelle Telfer over gender guidelines and the report goes Australia's foremost apparently gender medicine expert and lead author of the nation's guidelines on gender affirming care, Michelle Telfer came under the attention of a family called judge for giving misleading evidence in support of a mother who wanted her

child to be prescribed puberty blockers. This involves Judge Andrew Scrum and one of the aspects of this which I found concerning was that this child was under the treatment of the hospital for I think six years, and it was only until the court proceedings had commenced that there was some treatment and there was the diagnosis. Now, I'm sure these can happen in life, but it just doesn't appear to all match up. Tell us about the story and what concerns you most.

Speaker 2

Yeah, this judgment that was handed down by Justice Strum in the Family Court in April of this year is hugely significant both in the family court circles, but also for us who have been There is a group of US clinicians who have been really trying to speak at against what is called gender affirming care and when it

is used blindly with children and so for listeners. Gender affirming care is the treatment that mental health professionals are told to use when a child of any age comes to us and says, I feel like I'm in the wrong body, I'm a boy who I want to be a girl. We are to absolutely affirm those thoughts and feelings. We are not to challenge them, and in fact we're

told to help them socially transition to the other gender. Now, that might be in the context look of a child having a background of significant developmental disorders like autism, mental health disorders like this child, and the family court high conflict,

parental divorce. And in fact, there are clinicians in this state, including myself, who, when we want to take a watch and wait approach and we want to say let's just park the gender issue and let's work on some of these other things going on in your life, we have been accused of being the ones doing conversion therapy. Funnily enough, I know.

Speaker 1

Yeah, did I guess say this? I reckon. I know my audience pretty well over many decades. I reckon that they would sit with So hang on, you just want to part things and have a chat about the bigger issues. Gee, that makes sense. That's almost I don't know what's right or wrong, but it seems that, in fact is right. It disturbs me to think that you can't even do that.

Speaker 2

Yes, And I think the problem is a lot of parents think that they're going to get a very thorough and nuanced assessment when they go to these gender clinics that are in you know, the Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne, Sydney Children's Hospital, and they don't. What they get is

a very fast, medicalized approach. The significance of this judgment in April and what happened this week is that Justice Strum has allowed for one of the first times experts giving evidence in the family court to be named publicly. Now that how the ever happens, there are very tight orders within family court circles, obviously to protect family's identities.

For those in the know, like myself, we knew it was Professor Michel Telfer when we read the judgment, but of course Justice Strum said though it was in the public's best interest this week to know the hospital, which is the Royal Children's in Melbourne, and Professor Michel Telfer is actually the one who has written the national guidelines on gender affirming care. Yeah, so she has been absolutely instrumental. And I actually have to say congratulations to the Australia newspaper.

They have been pushing this for six years on stories of this and they are the ones who have pushed now for the naming of Professor Telfer. So it's a watch and wait space. In regards to her position, I would argue that it's untenable now for her to continue as head of that gender clinic. The public has to know what's going on, and we have to return to

a science led argument. Okay, because gender dysphoria is the only condition whereby we are told to lean into the delusions and anxieties of a presentation and not challenge them. It is the only one that we are told to go along with. And if we don't wear the ones harming the children.

Speaker 1

I'm mentioning you off there that And this goes back five years. A mother approached me privately wanting assistance to raise this issue because she had so I don't know about dead naming and what I can and can't say. It's such a complicated area it don' would offend anyone. But she said to me, I'm not naming anyone. Her son had suffered extraordinary bullying and was then having some counseling, and the conclusion was that her son was in the

wrong body and was of the wrong gender. And this went on for a couple of years, and as a caring mother wanted to be involved and was completely locked out of the conversation and then of course you hit the magic auge and then you are locked out forever. And she said it felt to her like the bullying and everything else could not be properly treated, so it had to be gender. And she thought, you know, what

the hell are we doing. And once that became a thing, she was locked out and it was all you know, it must be gender.

Speaker 2

And you're hearing this story from the thousands and thousands of detransitioners now, particularly coming out in America, who were saying, you know, the abuse that I was copying as a child at home was not investigated, the severe bullying was not investigated. My eating disorder that I had at the time was not investigated. And of course these are children at twelve thirteen years old who are looking for, you know, belonging an identity, and so they grasp onto this gender

idea through social media or whatever. And there is a contagion effect. No matter what people say, there absolutely is a contagion effect to this. And it is our role, as supposed to be scientifically led, evidence based professionals, to look at what's going on and hold a multitude of alternative hypotheses. And that's not being done. We're turning a blind eye to all that and pushing kids through a lifelong medical route, absolutely lifelong destroying people who are now

coming out. And of course, legislator, the litigation in the US has absolutely gone bananas, with detransitioners now suing and that will come here.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. Another issue from the week. Monash University study has found that fewer than one in five students who experienced family violence disclosed it to a teacher or to a school counsel or, with more skipping school or becoming fearful of authority figures with detrimental effects. Does that surprise you, No.

Speaker 2

It doesn't surprise me. And that's because some may think out there that if you're being abused at home, school would be the safe place and somewhere where children want to go. But let me be clear. A child does not thrive or is unable to learn if they are in a state of survival, and so what happens is

that they very quickly become disengaged from school. I say, you can't learn your timetables in a war zone, right, so you prioritize the body, prioritizes survival, and so what happens, of course, is you slip behind academically very very quickly, and that's not been a nice place to go. You socially become isolated from friends, and so yes, being in a school environment is very difficult. You also start displaying with so called mystery illnesses and excuses not to go.

You don't want to go if you have physical signs of abuse because you don't want to be questioned. Okay, And there is a lot of research that shows that children who are abused in a home environment with adults generalize that to becoming mistrusting with other adults. So it's incredibly sad. And of course during COVID times, that's why this was amplified that not even the one in five were being picked up because they were locked inside at home and not able to be seen at school at all.

So it's incredibly sad. But when a child undergoes whether that's physical, sexual, or emotional abuse, essentially their nervous system is hijacked. They have no cognitive capacity to take on new information understandably, and they do in fact, as you rightly said earlier this morning, some children sadly want to stay at home to protect perhaps another parent.

Speaker 1

That breaks your heart. Doesn't it.

Speaker 2

Particularly early teenage years, you will get you know, fourteen year olds, fifteen year olds giving up school to stay home to protect you know, a parent who is the subject of abuse. Incredibly sad.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it really is. Got that's instructive. You can't learn your times tables in a war zone, so if your home's a war zone, I mean, very simple words. But how wonderful is that? Or understanding gives its a great way to understand that. Donald Trump and Elon Musk, Claire Roll with Claire leading child psychologists perfect to deal with this issue, the cluster Musk. They'll never ever be friends again.

They can't, can They mean, He's mentioned Nepstein and we're now with that equals and Donald's got the He's got the the nuclear sized button and everything else at his disposal. So he probably wins on the power rankings. And they're done, aren't they.

Speaker 2

They've got a big ton. I don't know whether I've reached my pay grade here because I mean, this is not just political performance. I mean this is absolutely a psychological spectacle from my, you know, my point of view of two power driven narcissists, you know, out for a dominance battle here who are just throwing grenades in the form of tweets and social media updates. And that's the thing.

We've got two men with extremely inflated self images with their own fan base who mirror that back to them their own sense of importance. And you know, I think Trump kind of sees Musk as a threat when he comes in with his kind of pseudo libertarian tech speak, and he sees that as a threat on his you know, political domain, and then of course he fires back with these threats of pulling contracts for him. And you know

that they've got very, very different agendas. Musk with a far more physical but globalist I think idea of how he's going to save humanity through space travel and AI and you know, the tech side of things, and Trump, you know, his focus is completely different on America first and you know, restoring American American dominance through the working class, and that's where his emphasis is. And so I think

this was always predicted. I'm not sure if it's I think it's come earlier, maybe abound six months post inauguration here, and it's blown up. It's a very i mean, the spectacle past, the popcorn of this is unbelievable if it wasn't for the fact that at the end of the day, the public losers. We've got really important things going on. We've got tariff talks with China, We've got nuclear energy

talks with her. We've got Trump at the moment blocking immigration from most Muslim countries and being called racist by Iran. And we've got summits soon in Canada where hopefully our Prime minister maybe we'll get a chance to speak with Trump and that will be interesting on the back of all these defense spending tensions, all this stuff going on. But what do you think people are going to want to click on? This is unbelievable content and this is what the media will now focus on.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, which we are doing right now. Claire, love to see you, Thank you for coming.

Speaker 2

In, Thank you so much.

Speaker 1

Talking again soon. Leading to our psychologist Claire Road doing great work at the IPA too, Institute of Public Affairs. Keep your eye out for that.

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