September 5th, 2024 - Guest Robert Pardon

particular on the spots that I choose. I try to keep busy with my podcast, do some speaking out of state, you know, and I'm involved with this organization seeing if I want to swim in the deep end of the pool.

They're called Caine to Believe, which is an organization that was founded by Clarence Snyder, who was one of the sponsores of doctor Bob Smith, and so Clarence at one time was the longest sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous, and back in nineteen sixty six he wrote a companion book called Came to Believe, which incorporates the twelve Steps of recovery as they're written on the wall as the foundation. But it's a faith based organization, similar to Celebrate Recovery

or Reformers Unanimous or a church based program. However, those programs which I shy away from, put the Bible before the twelve steps. In other words, they feel you need salvation and salvation will lead to recovery. What I call that bullshit, you know. Sobriety leads to everything you know, and you can be a person based on your particular spiritual path. You can be a person you know, on your way to Nirvana or heaven or whatever you're going to call it. And you're drunk, what have you done?

You know, you've denied every human on the planet to secure an ear heavenly position. And I call that selface and self centeredness. And so this organization, I'm starting to get involved with them, and they're sending me are they're actually signed in agreement with Salvation Army to be in one hundred and twenty of their arcs across the country to develop a program of treatment and recovery. And so it's very interesting to see how this thing unfolds.

here to treatment, there was a really treatment. You know, it was more like a home, calmeless thing that they just hey, full these clothes, something to do, will feed you at an AA meeting.

You know, you might, you might get them closer to God in a way, but if you're if you're not getting them closer to their wife, to their children, to their job, to their mom and their dad there or what the hell have you? What have you done?

to go to AA or like pump the brakes. There's fifty thousand different ways you can recover. I use a podcast, you know, like some I mean, there's different ways you can do it. But like if that's what you're throwing out as excuses already, just stop, you know, because first, like you said, you know, just just stop, like, let's just get clean and you can worry about who you believe in and all that stuff later, you know, and trust me that you know, I believe in a god.

It might not be the same as yours, but you know that it doesn't matter, you know, when you're talking about recovery and living in a life in recovery, and you guys mentioned too, it's different, you know than being abstinent, than being just well, i'm sober today, you know, like I tried that. I just didn't drink for a while.

I was a really good Baptist, you know. On my way to hell drunk.

joys and free. You know, your higher power can be anything but anything except a doorknob or a coffee cup. And I'm going to say, yeah, go ahead.

was like, I had two weeks once. I had two weeks a lot of times actually, but the last time I had two weeks was back in twenty eighteen, you know, and I just put some more behind it, you know. But I was like, dude, like seriously, like you know, and I kind of went through the whole process of it all. And it is a process. You know. You can't just wake up when they'm like, hmm, I'm an addict and I'm just not going to do it anymore. I mean, maybe you can't work that way. It just

didn't work that way for me. I mean maybe there's a guy or two out there that maybe that did work for But it is a process. It is, at least for me, because I wanted to try it my way. Every little fricking way I could until finally I just threw my hands up and said that's enough. I'll just listen to everybody else and do it a different way, because having a plan that in five years I'll get a radio gig in California, nobody will know and I'll be able to drink again. Yeah, that's a lie. I'm

telling myself a lie, you know. And it's my brain telling me that. You know, my soul wants this new life. My soul wants this, this whole creation. You know. I want a family, I want a wife, I want a kid, I want all that stuff. But my brain's telling me, nah, that is what you need to do.

and over again, you know. And that's what we do, just repetition. There's only twelve steps in the program, you know, and steps one, two, three are surrender. Steps four through nine are recovery steps, and ten, eleven, and twelve are continuation steps. And when we understand that, then we can, you know, get to a place, get to a place that's really not a place but a journey. And I, you know, I never want to be cured. I never. I never. Could you imagine could you imagine Corey waking

up tomorrow and realizing we're done. I don't. There's not a drink in the world, there's not a feeling in the world that could be better then the feeling I'll get tomorrow when I realized I've been given another day to be a better version of me.

to carry that message. And there are people out there that say, you know, I was told when I started the podcast and I was in sober living, we went to this meeting in Charlevoie and then the guy was all irritated that was running the meeting because one of his recoveries was in the newspaper talking about all how he was sober for a year or something, maybe it

was two years. Whatever. Well then he went out and relapsed, and so he came in and he was so pissed and he's like, you know what, if you don't have five years, you need to just shut your mouth. And he looked right at me. You know, I mean, the other guys started this podcast, and I'm like, is he talking to us? Like I can't work that way, like I have to put it out there that I'm in recovery. And when I did, because when on the radio, like I would hide it. You know, I was the rock

jack man. We're supposed to be out partying, doing coke, smoking weed, getting drunk. My studio is supposed to smell like beer, you know, and so to be like, hey, I have a drinking problem. You know, I couldn't really do that. And then I'm like, oh, I'll lose my job and I'm in a program director role. I'm in two different markets, like I really can't do that. I was afraid. And when I started the podcast it was

so freeing. It was like kicking the doors off and I was like, I'm not hiding it anymore, you know, like boom, I'm in recovery. You know a lot of people will say, oh, I'm an alcoholic, and okay, call yourself whatever you want to me. That's a negative term. And I don't wake up in the morning and go, oh, I'm a piece of shit today. I'm gonna absolutely do nothing.

our doors each day is kind of interesting. And what kind of things you're gonna hear or what just simple things you could say that they're gonna come back in two years and be like, man, when you told me that, you know, I'm like, oh, really, just about the jelly jar, you know, like okay, like all right, but that's the beauty of it, man, And it's so amazing. And since we last talked, I think I was married when we

talked last time. Yes, but I had a baby boy a few months ago in May, little little son, and we thought that was not gonna happen.

is amazing. Our organization two seventeen Recovery is a recovery community organization through faces and voices of recovery, and we get to employ people in recovery. We have five employees, and that may not sound like a lot, but it is when you're paying taxes on them. Oh my god, yeah, tell you that. I didn't know any of that stuff was happening. But yeah, So to be able to employ these people, whether I pay taxes on them or not,

which we do, it is just an amazing thing. One of our guys I met at a vape shop and he worked there, and I come in there wearing my two seventeen Recovery podcast sweatshirt, and I'd seen him before, but it was like the third time I went in there, and I was debating on buying a new vape, and I was explaining to him, well, my wife did just get her hair done again, you know, like I mean, she's spending money on herself. I can spend money to

you know, kill myself with the vaping, I guess. And so I got the new vape and I was like, well that I do want to save up for a new camera because we're starting to film a lot more things. And he's like, what do you do? What do you film? And I told him. I was like, well, we're filmed

people telling their recovery stories. And he just kind of looked at me and had this hesitant look in his face, and then he said, yeah, I'm in recovery too, and I said, well, good, good for you, you know, And we started this conversation about being in recovery and I told him that I spoke at a treatment center every week, and he said, man, that would be awesome. Do you think I could come with you? Absolutely? Man? So I

checked with the treatment center. Listen, yeah, no problem. So I brought him along with me and he just liked it a lot. And I said, hey, we're opening this recovery center. You know, if you ever thought about becoming a recovery coach and he was like, nah, I haven't really. I was like, well, here's what we would pay. I know that's probably more than what you're making at the vape store, but you can actually have a career here,

and he turned me down. He said, nah, nah, nah, I'm cool at the vape store like okay, and then the next day he comes knocking on the door. We had to open it up for him. He's like, hey man, I'm so sorry. I do want that job. This is that was so stupid to me to turn you down, you know. And so now he works here and since then, he's become a recovery coach. He's certified with the state.

He's now one of our drivers that take people to him from treatment, which is very crucial when you use a recovery coach to do that, you know, it's huge. And he has learned how to use photoshop. He has his own podcast now. He's amazing at making these awesome flyers that we post around town. I mean, his skill set has went through the roof and he's just scratching

the surface, you know. And he posted a blog he's a good blog writer about how his life has changed and for the first time ever, he has a career, you know. And to make this more than just well yeah, I mean recovery, No, this is a lifestyle. You know. He's embracing it. He's going on dates with women who have jobs, you know, like, I mean, it's yeah, he has standards. He says no to some women, you know,

and it's just that self confidence. It's just this life you know, of being joyous and being thankful, and it's just such an amazing thing to be in the position that I'm in, to be able to watch these people grow, and to be able to offer these people work and careers. You know, it's it's just something that's just amazing, Robert, I'll tell you.

the rule of thirds. And the rule of thirds is a third of the people are going to think I'm the greatest things since life bread. A third of the people really could care less, and a third of the people can't wait for me to shut up, he said, But they'll all look the same. So the person who can't wait for you to shut up is going to look like the person who thinks you hung the moon, and they're going to seem real, real attached, real attentive, and they're going to think you're full of crap the

whole way through. So therefore you don't know who these thirds are. Therefore, when you talk to everyone as if they were in the top third, many becoming the top third even without their permission. And I've tried to engage when we go into treatment centers and you know that, you know, some people could care less. Some people are there for just three hots and a cop. Some are there because it beats five years in federal prison. I mean, there's a number of reasons. CPS says, if you don't go,

you're not going to get the kids back. Everyone jumps through that particular coercion for a different reason. But when you talk to them as if they have potential, as if they have power, as if they have another way of living, then they can think, wisest person talking to me. I don't care, And yet you don't care that they don't care. You're just there to share your experience, strength

and hope. That's all we have to do. According to Step twelve, haven't had a spirit awakenized result of these stuff. We tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles on all our affairs. We don't have to convince them of anything. We just have to try to carry our message. And our message is powerful. It's real, it's authentic. It's filled with compassion, it's filled with love, it's filled with remorse, it's filled with forgiveness. It's filled

with a resurrected life. You know. And when we talk in those terms, people who wouldn't listen normally, now we have their attention and they think I want what that person has. I'm actually willing. I'm so tired of living this other life. I'm willing to entertain what they're saying. And when that happens, magic occurs, man, and this you know, you know, bro, there's nothing like it.

I've got a few minutes. And so she had fifteen days sober and she was worried about how she was, and I said to her, I said, you know I have I said I have fourteen thousand and eleven days. And I said how many days you have? And she says fifteen days? And I said, and how many of those days have you wanted to use? And she said fifteen of them? And I said, I can't remember the last time I wanted to use. Who do you think is more powerful than this room? You were me? And

she thought about it and said me. I said, exactly, You've exhibited more power in the last fifteen days of saying no to something, your mind was saying yes to that. You have to have more power than me, because you've been saying no when I just don't have a desire. And then I told her, I said, do I know you in the present or do I know you by your past? And she said, well, you don't know my past,

so you know me in the present. I said, exactly, what would you think of me if I found out everything of your past and then used it against you and your present? And she said I wouldn't like you. I said, okay, why doesn't that apply to you? And she just left this room just I mean, I would imagine she woke up today with day sixteen, you know, and when we can transfer that magic, when we can allow because in reality, how many people that you meet

today will you know from yesterday? All you know is today, you know, And that's really powerful evidence, you know. They used to say to me, if you if you talk to me the way I talk to me, I would tell you to get out of my life. And that's true. People need to see what they're doing, not what they've done, because when we judge ourself by who we were, we judge yourself as a bad person, and we're actually sick people trying to get well, who've done some bad things.

We did bad things not because we're bad. We did bad things because we were sick. And the sooner we can get our head around that, the closer we are to that position of recovery.

I want to help people. I knew that even from being in radio. You know, my biggest things that I'll tell people from radio isn't that I met Billy Gibbons or whoever. You know, It's not that I did this or that. It's we did a food drive in Fortsmouth, Arkansas the first year, and that I was like, all right, let's do this. The food bank came to us and they said, well you help us. I said sure, So

we got with this garbage company or something. They gave us all these trash bins that we put in the stores, and we were on the radio four different stations telling people drop off food, drop off food, cans of food, and grocery stores said they were gonna put little labels and oh man, this is great, go to collect the food. We didn't have shit, We had nothing, And the guys that worked at the other stations were like, all right,

well that sucked. Well. Next year came around and the food MANK guys came to talk to me and they're like, let's do this again. I said, yeah, let's let's have a different strategy. And he's like, well, to tell you the truth, Corey, dropping off cans of food, it's kind of a pain in the ass because then we got to pay somebody to come in sort it. Half of it we have to throw away because it's expired. It's just crap that people are just getting off the out

of their cupboards. And he's like, if you give us money, it helps. Every twelve dollars and fifty cents we can feed a family of four with. Okay, So I got with the movie theater and Hunger Games or two or whatever was coming out, and I was like, let give us all these movie tickets. People will call there, they'll buy your popcorn, which you want anyway. And for twelve fifty, which was actually cheaper than what you would have went to the movies and bought two tickets for you know,

you feed a family four. So man, we raised enough to feed twenty thousand people, and it was insane. We went from nothing, and my coworkers didn't want to even try it. They're like, we failed at it, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, we failed. How we did it. We're doing it again this year. And then the next year we did it again. And that's what I loved, you know. And I was telling that story when I was in the psych word to this guy and he's like, man, man, he's like,

you just lit up when you told that story. And I was like, well, it's because I'm proud of it, you know, and like we helped so many people, and that's why I knew I had that in me. And first when I thought, oh, okay, i'll do this recovery thing. I'll get clean and i'll go back to school and i'll be a drug counselor and I didn't want to be a drug counselor you know, I don't want to sit in a room with one person and I can't

share my experience with them either. You know, if you're a therapist and you're sitting there, you just have to listen and say, did you think that calling the cop a dick was going to get you out of that ticket? You know, you got to like make him think of like, who was that a good idea? Probably not, you know, but I didn't want to do that. So I like had a foot in and a foot out, and I

was stuck. But when I went to treatment that last time and I was like, I'm going to do a podcast, I'm going to make it to a nonprofit and we're going to help people how. I have no idea, but God put this in my head for a reason. Don't know why. I'm just gonna shut up and I'm gonna run with it. Don't know what I'm doing, which can be scary for people, but having that faith and just trusting like this is better than what I was doing before,

and I'm actually working towards something. If I just went back on the radio, I would just slide right back in the same, same old life. You know, you have to change, and I don't know if you can see it behind me up here is actually lyrics from a Blind Melon song when life is hard, you have to change, Yeah, have to. And for me, it was a change that I needed to make. And now to just kind of offer that for other people is just amazing. But you know, to not give up in yourself, not judge your past,

you know, is a tough one. It took me a while, you know, like, oh, but I called the police on my mom. I you know, I think all this stupid stuff that I had done. I called my sister a horrible mother. Can't take it back, you know, I remember it. And the only thing I can do today is that living amends.

and then we sat and we chatted. My oldest daughter, Kathleen, and I had a chance to sit down and just talk, and I mainly talked to her and I said, you know, of everyone I've ever sorry for, you're the only true regret. You and your sister are the only real regrets that I carried with me today. And she looked at me and she said, Dad, you don't have anything to worry about.

Just stay clean, stay sober, do you? And I know she felt that way, but you know, every now and then to hear that is really good, Especically when you've been sober as long as me. I just want to make sure you're still making the difference. And I wasn't that much of a difference to her because I left them when they were young. But man, I'm a great example as your grandfather how to make good choices and

how to turn their life around. And I'm example to my grand to her children that I wasn't to her. And you know, there's always that living amends, you know that. I like that phrase a lot.

I've lived a pretty good life. I can die now to think that, you know, to go back and go, oh my god, like, but that's what alcohol did to my brain.

times to be where I'm at today. If I didn't go to jail, I wouldn't know anything about jail, you know. If I didn't go back to jail, I wouldn't have been sent up to Northern Michigan, you know, to get away from where I grew up in Southwest Michigan, where there was nothing there for me, you know, and to be able to have that fresh start. Some people I've seen them leave treatment, like this one couple they hooked up in treatment and they're like, we're gonna move to Florida.

I said, okay, I can tell you how that's gonna work out. Oh, don't judge us. You don't know where the exception. All right. Two three weeks later, I get a Facebook message, Well you were right. He kicked me out, blah blah blah. I'm like, oh, because you start using again. Well that's not the point. I'm like, Okay, Well I can right, you know. And there's some people who just can't imagine. And I was this way too. I can't imagine a life without using some kind of drug, and

I thought I'd figured it out. I was in like this the crappiest treatment center that's on the earth. And it's when it hit me, Robert, I'm a genius. My ego came into play here. Why didn't I figure this out sooner? I don't know. I'm just gonna smoke weed. That's what I'll do. And I went up to one of the texts. I was like, hey, man, I don't even need to be here anym. He's like, what are you talking about. I was like, man, I figured it out. I'm just gonna smoke weed. I don't like mixing alcohol

and weed. I'll just smoke weed. Then I won't drink. He said, you can't substitute. That's substitute, and you're substitute worth. Man. No, I got this, So I get out. I get this bag of weed. And the bag of weed now is not the bag of weed when I was smoking weed when I was seventeen eighteen. We're not saying yeah, you know. I mean. I was like I couldn't even get off the couch. I was like, what is going on? I

was like, this is stupid. And then I called the buddy and was like, hey, bring me a fifth and I'll trade you this weed. It lasted a day. Robert like that, it just doesn't work. And I was like, damn, that guy was right, and then I had to go back treaming again blah blah blah blah. But some people still hold on to this thing of like I have to have something. And this one lady was telling me like, oh, I'm gonna smoke weed till the rest of my life. And I was like, look for me, I can't do it.

If there's a one percent chance half a percent point zero zero zero zero zero's you're a one percent chance. I'm not going to do it because if there's that one percent, that point zero zero zero zero one percent that will lead me to alcohol. Again, not going to do it. It's not worth it. And they're like, yeah, but I need it from my back or I need it because work is stressful. I'm like, do you have you what are you working on? What are you really

working on? Because that was something that I said too being in radio. Oh it's so stressful, you know, like I have to come home and I have to just get ship face drunk. What that doesn't make sense? And what how is that helping anything, Well, it helps me unwined. What it doesn't makes you shake, you know, like that's why you're sick and dry heaving in the morning, you know,

like that's what it's doing. It's not helping you, but it's it's tough to get caught up in that though, and then just think, well I need it for this, I need it for that, you know. It's like no, you don't, man. And some people will say you just need to meditate, which I'd like to meditate from time to time too, But there's other things that you can do to replace it, you know, and you don't need the.

come first. Personal recovery depends upon AA unity. It's what we believe in together that helps me as an individual and what I believe personally, you know, it is that commonality. It's page seventeen of the Big Book. We have discovered a common solution on which we can absolutely agree and joining brotherly and harmonious action, you know, and what is that agreement? Twelve steps I recovered the Big Book, the

first one hundred and sixty four pages. You know, get in a loving God, getting a sponsor, going to meetings, helping another alcoholic, you know, working and then doing.

get more high. I sat in the hotel room and I tried to be in almost one more time on almost because I came from nothing, I wasn't nothing. I was always going to be nothing. So I settled on an almost and I tried to recapture that feeling and I couldn't. And the only way for me was the Rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. Because I knew I didn't want to die. That's why I drank. I wanted to find that halp, a medium that wasn't terrible, wasn't good, it was okay. Right where I was at, I found that

neutrality where it didn't hurt being me. And I sat in that hotel room and I couldn't recapture it, and the only place for me to go was to the Rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. And when I went back to the rooms that day, through a divine set of miracles, my sponsor and I got down on our knees did the Third Step prayer. That was April twenty fifth, nineteen eighty six. And trust me, Corey, I've never looked back. Never, I've never doubted anything. You know, over the years, I've

had a continual spiritual awakening. But in that moment, I had a spiritual experience that revolutionized my wife, my life, and I knew I would never drink again.

why would I want to drink like that? That's a horrible idea. Why would I want to go cut my wiener off like that?

second drink and says, oh, I can't drink anymore. I think, what's the matter with you? You know, people would you know, they would think what was the matter with me? And I'd be on my eighth and ninth my tent drink. She has two drinks and she says, Oh, I'm getting a little dizzy. I need to stop.

the main of our spiritual condition. We recover from that obsession, We recover from that hopeless state of mind and body that allows us to make a national decision in a non emotive, so we don't react to the things we used to don't. We don't find it necessary. It's easier for me to walk through pain than it is for me to avoid pain, because avoidance will lead to more pain, and more pain will increase my need to medicate. And my favorite medication is Johnny Walker Black.

especially when you're driving. We call it giving people the corey now is when giving people's finger if I let you know anything, you know, but but I try to like, hey, maybe that person's having a bad day too, you know, like just just don't react so much, and you will save yourself the embarrassment. Man, I've saved myself so much embarrassment that normally probably would have made me go drink because I would have said something so wrong or falsely accused somebody of something they didn't do.

the camera, you know, because our camera points out. And I was like, well, there was a car that kind of came by, but I don't think they went in your car to steal your phone. He's like, oh, was just sitting right there. Now it's gone. Somebody stole my Just freaking out, you know, And I was like, let's just calm down. I was like, you sure it's not in your car?

as he closes the door. I'm like, well, hold on, open your door back up. He's like what. I was like, what is that there? And he's like, well, that's my phone. Oh oh my god. I thought, you know, but he just went into that this panic mode and just assumed that all these bad things were happening to him when no, oh, that's right, the dog. I had to take this dog over this lady, and the dog was getting my phone. So now I remember putting it in there. Okay, I'm

so dumb. I'm like, not dumb, but you like almost caused yourself a moment that could have led you to go relapse. Yeah, and just even if someone did steal your phone, God wanted you to have a new one then.

girl I have to marry. And so I went and I told this girl the next day. So give you an idea of how crazy I was for Laura from like Jump Street and so. So Laura was over my house on a Saturday morning and we were leaving and I locked my keys in my car, and instead of getting upset, I was cool. I was calm, I was collective. I figured out how I was going to And Laura came from madness. Her dad was a drug addict, insane person who just would blow up at the smallest provocation.

So she watched me for about a half hour, just figure out what am I going to do? How am I going to And eventually I got the door open and I got my keys out. She fell in love with me in that moment, in that moment of calmness, of collecting myself, of being cool when I could have been angry. She'll say to this day, that's when she fell in love with me because I represented the person

that she always wanted to be with. And we were fifteen years apart then and now, and so there's a lot to be sad for being cool and being composed and for living that serene life that only our higher power can bring us souf. So, whether it's you don't have to be embarrassed when you find your phone, or you end up with a girl who thirty six years later you're still in love with it, just it just.

spot check. You know, there's nothing worse than looking at life and thinking I had an opportunity to be a better version of me, and I missed that opportunity because I became more important than whatever the circumstance or opportunity was. And there are opportunities, There are opportunities. In the Big Book, it says for God to demonstrate his omnipotence in our life, and either our higher power is our higher power. And

I'm not perfect with this. You know, I've wanted to murder people in the line at food for less as much as the next person. But I don't do anything. I try not to do anything that I have to go back and I say I'm sorry to, to say I'm sorry to and whether I know them or not, God knows me, and I know me, and I know

how I ought to be. And when we get to the end of the day, and said, you know, there was an opportunity for me to be stupid, and I decided to trust instead of being you know, engage and something I can't control, you know, can I control this? Can I control it? You know? Where where's that divided line? And obviously, to get upset over things you can control is fullestness, and to get upset over things that you can control is just stupid.

And there was this guy who I hated and I was in a different treatment center with him, and he annoyed. I just tried to stay away from him. Well, this one was as easy to stay away from him. And he would get into the groups and he would we call them a hijacker because there was forty people in a group, and the groups hour and a half. Everybody has to share, well do the math on that, you know, like you don't really have a long time, but he

would take up twenty thirty minutes. Not everybody would even get to share how they felt that day because he was hijacking the group, talking about how he's got a grand kid now and how he's gonna never use and just on and on and on. We'd go outside and smoke a cigarette and he's out there talking about when I get back to Battle Creek, I'm gonna be the biggest meth dealer in Battle Creek because I'm gonna do this and that, and we're like, dude, And I hated

every minute of them, everything about him. Hated his face, hated his hair, hated his jacket, hated everything about him. And I went to the my counselor lady and was like, you need to switch me groups and she's like no, and so I was like, yes, you need to. Normally that's where I would have bounced, all right, I'm out. That would have been my excuse. Don't don't need a big one, didn't couldn't find my lighter, couldn't find a lot,

I'm out. I gotta go, you know. And so I went to this other guy and I was like, look, Stephen, he was really really good at what he did. And I was like, Stephen, this guy, I can't be in a group with them. Could you please explain to homegirl here that I need to get switched out of that group. And he's like, well, they're not going to do that, but you're getting worked up over things that you don't

have control over. And I was like what. He's like, well, when he goes on his little tangents, what's your job? I was like, what do you mean? What's my job? He's like, well, what are you supposed to be doing? I was supposed to be paying attention. He's like, okay, but you're not vibing with this guy and what he's saying. I was like, no, absolutely not. He's like, okay, well, what can you control? And I was like, oh, puffy about Look, well I can go take a shit. You can, well,

I take a nap? You can. I was like, I can color, you can, I can write my mam a letter. He's like, you can. Those are things you can control. He's like, it's the group leader's job. It's her job. She's actually getting paid. It's her job to tell him to shut up and to move on. You get two minutes, let's go. You know, like, it's her job. That's not your job, Corey. You're not here leading group. And I

was like, yeah, I guess you're right. And he's like, you, now, if you want after group, if you would like to go to say something in the structure, like hey, can you please move on from that guy or maybe have him go last? You could do that. Will she do that? I don't know. That's up to her, But at least you those are things that you can do. You have control over that. You have no control over what comes out of his mouth. You could go punch him in the face, but then we're gonna call the cops and

you're gonna go to jail. And I don't think you want that. He's like, but those are options. Those are what you can do. Those are things that you have And I started thinking about it like that and it flipped. It changed and he came up to me, this guy that I hated, and he's like, you got a problem with me, because after two or three days of me not reacting, it was bugging him like he wanted that reaction out of me. And he's like, you want to go outside and fight? And I was like for what

you know? And my friend was in there and he big guy became friends or whatever. But he's like, I'll go outside with you, Billy.

you embarrassment. It saves you from getting worked up over something that you have no control over.

But it's not just one thing. That's a number of things. But you decided it needed to be one thing so you could drink over everything. And boy, that was a you know, I'm so glad that I got sober in Las Vegas. You know, I number one Las Vegas. The bottom was severe. There's no purgatory, there's no holding pattern. You're either you're either you don't have a problem or you have a severe problem. You know, alcoholism, drug addiction, pornography, gambling,

over eating. Because all the great buffets they've got and you name it, there's not an addiction, either substance or behavioral that does not try to attract you. You know, in Vegas and lights and everything is good. Everything is twenty four hours a day everything. You never have to wonder, Gosh, I can't wait for the slicker store to get open, or I can't wait to go meet my drug dealer, or I can't go. You know, you want to go see a stripper at six am. Go see a stripper

at six am. There's a club open, you know you want to. You want to gamble your paycheck at you know, nine o'clock in the morning. There's a place to do that. You want to. You want to Scot's on the rocks, you know at eight o'clock, eight am, knock yourself out. You want to meet your drug dealer at the crab table. You know you can get a dose of cocaine. I mean, it didn't matter. You know, you want a breakfast buffet, you want a lunch buffet, you want a dinner buffet,

you want to throw up in between? What do you want? You know it's there and so so. Even though my addictions started in California, where really got a wheels roll in the first place I drank. I'd lived in California at the time, longer than I'd lived anywhere, but moving to Las Vegas, I I tell people it turned a fender bender into a head on collision. And I'm grateful to Las Vegas because I think a person like me needed Las Vegas to crash harder than I would have

had I not been in Las Vegas. And because I had been drinking by the time I got to Las Vegas in nineteen eighty, I started where you know in Japan they have a phrase, first a man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, and then the drink takes the man. And I think Las Vegas just accelerated my timeline and the depth of my addiction better than any place could have, I say, better, but faster than

any place. And so my need for recovery came. And instead of I believe for me, instead of dying a slow, painful death that addiction can facilitate, I hit a bottom I would not have hit anywhere else. Fortunately, in Las Vegas, AA is so strong twilve step recovery is as good and as foundational as any place I've ever visited across

the country. And not only was my addiction waiting for me before I ride, but AA was waiting for me that it was everything I needed when I needed it to be, and the strength and the durability and the no nonsense approach to recovery was something that someone as severely as addicted as I was needed at the time. And I'm forever grateful for Las Vegas for its bottom that only Las Vegas could provide and the recovery that was waiting for me when I finally said enough is enough.

the attention. Low works a lot and allows me to do what I do, and so I'm super active in twelve step recovering, my traveling and my speaking and my podcast, and I'll be in Idaho in February. I'm back in California. I just was in California Treatment Center of Recovery, Alma Club, and I'm speaking three times I'm secretary in a Saturday meaning or chairing a Saturday Act meaning speaker meeting, and and just really getting some good recovery brusive service, you know.

And that's what's really great. You know, being sober as long as I've been sober has really opened a lot of doors for me that I that have been open just because they can't believe that a guy is sober as long as me, you know, is still wanting, you know, to serve and and and guys like you and me, Corey, we don't know how not to serve you. You got to you got to say we don't want you. And then I'll say, really, come.

front of our male and female population. So this one particular time I was there because again the rule of third, you never know who you're going to touch. So so I'm speaking. I spoke at this treatment center on Friday in classroom setting. So Saturday, I'm the alumni speaker speaking everyone who's graduated from the program on a Saturday afternoon. And I got there early just to get a feel for a lay of the land, you know, and the landscape.

And I saw this girl changing trash cans and that was her chore that morning at the stream and Center. And I said, hey, I remember you from yesterday and she said, yeah, you know, she said, you know, this is a ninety day program and I was on day sixty or whatever it was. She said, And I was going to leave yesterday. Mind jo, I'm talking to sixty women having the asket basket, you know, just answering questions

on the floor. And she said, I was going to leave yesterday, but I decided to stay the full ninety days. Would you like to meet my husband and my children, and man, she was my trip, Corey everything, every other reason I knew, I knew why I was there. I wasn't there for one hundred and twenty people I would see on Friday. I wasn't there for the two hundred and fifty I would talk to on Saturday. I was there for that one person. And if God would have taken me home in that moment, my life would have

been complete. You know what I mean. I mean when we when that one person is affected as you and I were affected, when we knew we never had to return to that nonsense again. We were changed, man. And when when we can say something or do something or be an example of what recovery is to make a person, that help facilitate a person staying when they wanted to leave, Dude, that's that's the greatest feeling. It's just like, take me home now, God, because it's not going to get any

better than this. It's and that's what we live for. Man.

good for me, you know, Like I don't know. I look back now and I go, which, of course I know why because God was trying to show me this is what you need to do. But if I would have just listened before, you know, like, why did I fight it so hard?

What she's want to hear it? You know, like if you don't have a problem, you don't have a problem, right right, But my phone's here, she can call me whatever she wants, you know, And As long as she doesn't ask me for money for my nephew's baseball team, I'm good. I was like, if you want to ask people for money, you can come work for my nonprofit. But you got to be sober, you know, like you

got to be in recovery. And she's like, oh, well yeah, But my point is though, to try to talk to somebody who doesn't want to hear it, it's kind of like okay, But to be around, to be available for when they do need it, that's what we can do. You know, there are some people we're just stage two on their journey and they got ten more to go. They'll remember it just like I did, just like you did. You know, we might have not just fell right into it.

And yeah, I get it, but it takes this guy, that guy, this woman, that person, this preacher, that other guy. You just take it all and then finally when you can just put it on the table and just scoop it all up to you and go, let's just take all this in and let's start trying this way. And when it flips for you, when it becomes why would I drink today? That's a horrible idea. You start patting

yourself on the back. There was a guy in AA meeting that was like, I'm tired of people patting themselves on the back for stuff they should be doing anyway. And I raised my hands and I got to man, because the old me wouldn't have done that. The old me would have not seen those red flags, started dating this person started doing that. That would have been the old me. I pat myself on the back because I

caught myself and I am changing, you know. And when I see those changes in myself, hell yeah, I'm gonna pat myself on the back. Just because you think I shouldn't be doing it anyway. That's your opinion, you know, and I have nothing I can do about that. But for me, I'm going to pat myself on the back, you know.

do you have to do? But it's interesting because I'm going to digress a little bit to back what you said in terms of being a person of recovery. And there was a person who I remembered them from the podium early on in my journey, and they said their middle name was more m Ore. My middle name is more and blah blah blah. And they said, when I was out there ripping and running, when I was out there drinking and using a horn around and all the things that we do to make our feel good feel good,

he said, it was more of everything else. It was more drugs, It was more alcohol, it was more sex, it was more gambling. It was more this, more that, more and more, more and more and more. He said. I came to believe that I'm a person of more. I'm a person of excess. So now my more is still more. It's what the more is that's different. I didn't have to change the more because that's dialed into

my personality type. I'm a person who appreciates excessiveness and and and more is my middle name, So I adopted that. So my middle name is more, and it's more recovery, more, big, book, more twelve step, more, service, more, serving, more God more everything that really makes me feel good, feel good. I do everything to excess. I still do everything alcoholically. It's what I do alcoholically. See, I can be treated or I can be untreated. And when I was untreated, you

best believe I did everything alcoholically. Well, I still do, but I just do everything alcoholically as a treated alcoholic. And I make no apologies for being a recovered alcoholic. I had to make apologies left and right for being an untreated alcoholic. So when people say, well, who's counting, well, I'm freaking counting. I counted every day when I was out there and read more. How can I do this one more time? How can I disappoint? My daughter was

critical of me minute by minute. Sometimes I'm taking credit on behalf of God for every day I'm sober. So people don't want to count. I'm a counter. I encounted everything when I was out there. Trust me, I'm counting everything in here because every day is a gift. And why wouldn't you count a gift? Doesn't make any sense to me, And I am a logical person. I like to figure it out. I like to. I like to understand everything that's happened to me, you know, because I

want to. I want to articulate what's happened. I want to. I'm not satisfied with just having dots on a page. I want the dots to be sorted. I want the dots to when you connect all those dots. I wanted to show a picture of recovery, and then I wanted to color in because it's that color. It says when newcomers outsiders are often amazed when we burst into merriment over a sea manly tragic situations says, But why shouldn't we laugh? For we have been we have recovered and

be given the ability to help others. And that's what. And if people don't see me as happy, joys and free, if they don't see you and the people who work in your association as really being excited, why would they want it? I mean, every now and then, we were able to achieve mediocrity when we were out there. But no, we've chosen a way where we're happy, we're joyous, and we're free. We insist on enjoying life, The Big Book says, And if the Big Book says it you can trust

I'm all in. I'm in the deep end of the pool, swimming as fast as I can.

I was like, no game I like is pictionary. And the lady's like, okay, well I'll write safe words on here, and I'm like, we don't want to know safe words, you know. So she did like ice cream cone and stuff like that. But we did it. It was fun when I started working at the treatment center and I was like, hey, guys, like we did it one week because like these cooking shows were big, and I was like, hey, let's there's a cold kitchen downstairs with the food that you guys

can make. Like, let who's in who wants to do a little cook off? You know, I'll give you the ingredients. You guys got to whip something up, and they had a blast and then I decided, well, let's let's do pictionary, you know. And it was X rated pictionary pretty much, you know. I got guys drawn wieners on the board

and stuff. But they laughed so hard, and I heard it so many times of like, oh my god, I don't remember last time I laughed so hard sober, and I'd have to remind them, when's the last time you laughed so hard when you were messed up up? Yeah, And then thought about it and they're like, yeah, like yeah, I don't think i've you know, it's been a lot time since I've laughed, you know. And I'm like, well, and you are sober and you can laugh and we

can have fun. And still to this day, I'll have people come up to me and they'm like, hey, remember me. Happened this on Sunday, And I'm like I have. His face looked very familiar, and I was like, yeah, I remember you, and he was like, yeah, I was in you know, Dakowski and he worked there and we played pictionary. He was like, man, I laughed my ass. I was telling her about it. He's with his girlfriend, you know.

He's like I was telling her about it, you know, And man, she didn't quite put it together, but you had to be there, I guess, you know. And I'm like, yeah, because we were. We were doing some fun stuff and it was just out of the box. And normally, like when the new guys would come in and they're like, all right, it's Friday, Cory's here doing pictionary. Yeah, and the new guy would be like playing pictionary and they're like, yeah,

you got to call man, it's so much fun. New guy'd be like okay, and then he'd go in and he'd be laughing right along with it, and you know, like but it's just little things like that, little moments that you can bring to the table. And unfortunately they don't do that stuff now there. And I guess after I left, then another guy tried it and they're like, yeah, you can't be doing pictionary, man, Like, probably shouldn't let Corey do that. You know, some of that stuffs inappropriate,

you know, And I'm like, I don't know. It's funny though, And I don't know what someone's gonna draw. You know, Like one time I put therapist on there and I thought that was a pretty safe word. Well he draws like this person getting bent over a desk and I'm like, what are you doing? Like, what do you do with your therapist here? And he's like, oh, I thought it was the rapist and I was like, oh my god. I was like, okay, that's a simple mistake. I mean, I guess if you just space it out, you know,

that's what it is. But yeah, I mean it was just like, oh my gosh, like but it was funny and we're all dying and then we what did I I put something up there? I don't even remember, but it was so much fun and people would interpret different words and then so we had a little thing where they would call me in the hallway if they didn't know what it was, you know, and I'm like, okay, this is what it is, you know, And I don't know. But it was just a good time and create that

fun atmosphere to get people to laugh. And we do an event every month here we go to which really wasn't that fun. I mean it was fun. We went to a Tigers game. They're just not very good. I mean they're not the White Sox, so hey that's good.

And it's like, wow, that's awesome. And then since they didn't give us tickets last year, they're like, we're sold out, we have no tickets to give you, but we'll give you an autograph football And we auctioned it off at one of our speaking events that we hold once a quarter and so you know, it did help raise some money for us, and that was good, you know, because we can still keep helping people, and it's just those things that we can show people, like, hey, this is

what we do, and this is what we did, and cooking classes. We did a fishing event because in Michigan twice a year they do free fishing Day where you don't need a license. So we got seven sober living homes within our area here, so we're like, hey, guys, let's go. We got some polls and took people fishing and then it rained.

binds us. And there's there's a unity there. And even even the preamble of Alcoholics Anonymous says, Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experienced strength and help with each other, that we might solve our common parbleament to help others who recover from alcoholism. I tell people often, and maybe this was true of you, and I know certain certain so many people like us. The fellowship held me long enough for me to admit

I was alcoholic. And once I admitted I was alcoholic, then the twelve steps of recovery became necessary. But the Fellowship, before I was ready to admit to my innermo self that I was alcoholic, I coudmit out loud because I wanted to be like you. But that true surrender, that that true submission of recognizing who I was, what I did, and the depth that I had gone, It was the Fellowship that kept me there long enough for the for

the the roots of recovery to take hold. That I became unmovable and you i'll and to this day I love the fellowship. Fellowship is not recovery any more than recovery is fellowship. It takes both. But I think before recovery can take root, fellowship needs to hold us in one place long enough for those roots to take place. Because even if I, even if I took a patch of grass or anything. If I if I tried to replant a small house plant every single day, it would

never take root, it would it would eventual die. But if I leave it there long enough and roots begin to develop, there are come a time where you can't move that plant anymore. You know, You've got to dig it out. You've got to really, you know, because the roots become so viable and so strong. And that's I think what the Fellowship does for us, and you have probably found that true in your recovery journey as well. The Fellowship is is is something that everyone ought to experience.

to find opportunities. It's just it's the numbers game almost, you know, like people will ask you, oh, do you need help or do you would you like to do this? Or you'll be surprised by the opportunities that come along and the good people that you'll meet, and those are the people that you want to be around, you know, not saying that everybody who's using is bad. They're just stuck in a place that if you're in early recovery, you don't want to You shouldn't be associated with those

people because you're still very vulnerable. And it's very simple, Like I was saying the other day, we just need a little sliver of an excuse. We don't need a big one. I said it earlier. Know, just oh, lose my lighter and I'm out, you know, like, let's go I'm having a bad day, turn my power off and I'll know. I'll sit there and that's okay. I figured it was going to get cut off. That sucks. Did you steal my lotder? Let's go fight, you know, Like

it's the little things that we can't handle. But when we start to learn and we start to not react, it does become easier. And the people that I get to meet along the way like you. I was excited. I've been wanting to do a podcast with you for a while. It's been so long, it seems like one hundred years. You know, like time just goes by so much slower. I don't I don't even know how to explain it, but it's faster at the same time. So it seems like we talked years and years and years ago.

It's been a couple of years. But you know, I follow you on Instagram and Facebook and all that, and why are you beefing with a guy recovery Guy dot calm or something because your website's Recovery Guy dot org. Right, yes, yeah. And then another guy came out and he had Recovery Guy dot calm or something something like that. I mean, this was a while ago too, This was like fifty years ago, you know, And I was like, oh man.

And then I remember one time he reached out to me and he had asked me about something about a vape or something, or about something that people were doing, and you were like, oh man, I'm not not keen on what's going on, and I can't remember the details of it, but those are times where I wanted to

reach out. I don't remember what was going on. Maybe we're going to a Lion's game or something, but like to actually have the time, and I appreciate you taking the time today, you know, to sit down and chat with me, you know. And I just love these just chatting about recovery, like I love talking about it. It's something that just gets in my soul and it just

makes me feel good. And to see a smiling face someone who's doing great, someone who's done great, and I can look up to you and go, look, you know, like life doesn't have to end, you know, like it's just going to keep getting better. And I was staying about my employee earlier about he's just scratching the surface of what he's going to become. I kind of feel like that is where I'm at my journey too.

can do that good, then I'll move on. But you know, until I can make a good short film, why would I want to go take on this task that's overwhelming, you know, like start baby stuff it. You know, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to make a movie, but doesn't mean I can't.

Sometimes I feel like job, you know, I lost everything, and yet today the things that I have are more than I ever imagine, you know, And I just want to do everything I can to encourage everyone to just count every day as a blessing. I've lived eight years longer than my dad. And my dad had seven years of sobriety when he died, and I have thirty eight years.

And it's amazing what happens when we surrender, you know, like you surrendered and the people that you know that you come in contact, but they've surrendered because without surrender, we're going to fight a battle we can't win. An addiction is one of those battles. In order for the twelve steps of recovery to work, I have to surrender, you know, I have to admit that I'm powerless of

our alcohol, that my life had become unmanageable. And you know, the insanity of my addiction doesn't occur, doesn't rear its ugly head until I get sober. It's not like it's not like it happens when I'm drinking. It happens when I'm sober. And as our friend Bob Darryl Bob Dee says, being sober is like doing time. You know, we have to get onto the steps. We have to turn our willingness life over the care of God. As we understood him.

We have to do that inventory. We have to admit, we have to be ready for God to remove the defects of character. Then we have to humbly ask him to move the shortcomings. And then we have to be willing to make amendsus to people that we harmed along the way, and then we lead to live that journey out one day to time for the rest of our life. And for me and for guys like you, there is no other.

of the reasons that I stay. I can never leave, and I could not be happier, you know, to see that newcomer come in wondering, you know, if they can never get their wife back, if they can never get their life back, if their mom and dad or brother and sister, you know, will ever forgive them, if they ever think they're going to be employable again. You remember what it was like, you know. They would say to me, it's three o'clock in the morning and the lights throughout

and nobody else is there. You know what the truth is about you? And the truth for men like you and me was not too promising. You know, we pretended it was when we were drunk. We were high, We played the game, but we were lonely. We were lost, and we were more lost. We were afraid to admit how lost we really were, because then no one would like us. And then we come into the rooms of recovery and we run into a group of people who the more they know, the more they like. And I

don't understand it to this day. Why they liked me, why they asked me to come back, But they did, and so I did because I had nowhere else to go and they wanted me, you know, where was I going to go. I'm glad I stayed, you know, and to see that light go on, you know, to see that person who you see for a second time, then a third time, then a fourth time, and next thing you know, they're working, you know, in recovery and treatment

and trying to do whatever they can. They're sponsoring someone there, trying to show them a version of what you showed them. And you know, when my sponsor of thirty two thirty three years passed away at cancer five years ago, I said, Jack, what do I tell him? What do I say? And it is cancer filled voice? He said, Bob, tell him. It works. So that's the journey that guys like you and mayeron It just it just works.

So even if I don't hit you up or you know, write you all the time, just know when you post a picture or he's going to see that, he's gonna let that one. You know. But but no, I love it, you know, I love what you're doing. And like I said, I look up to you and I appreciate you coming on the podcast today. We'll have to make it maybe not two years before we have you on again.