21 Hats Podcast

Chicago, New York, or Atlanta?

A year ago, Dana White was questioning whether her business could survive the pandemic. This week, she says she’s looking seriously at expanding to another city: “I'd like to make a decision by the end of March, and I'd like to be opening or in the process of opening by this fall. I'm waiting to see how the vaccine does.” Dana also talks about her experience with venture capitalists who seem to be telling her, “We’ll be happy to give you money—as soon as you don’t really need it.” Plus: Stephani...

So You Bet the House?

This week, Stephanie Stuckey tells Paul Downs and Jay Goltz, both of whom have manufacturing operations, about her decision to buy a manufacturing plant and bring production of Stuckey’s snacks in-house. We talk about her conflicted concerns about a minimum wage hike, what it takes to build a strong culture in a repetitive-task environment, why she paid above book value for the company she bought, and how she managed to finance the purchase of a business that is four times the size of Stuckey’s....

How Do We Get Out of This Cage?

This week, Karen, William, and Laura cover a lot of ground: For one thing, what do you do when the to-do list seems endless, you’re already working 24/7, and you just can’t get ahead? For another, what do you do when employees decide they want to work remotely from random parts of the country? Does that work? Is it a bureaucratic nightmare? Meanwhile, Laura is confronting several big, interrelated issues. Her co-founder and husband, Doug, is ready to step back from the business. That’s a little ...

I Want Clean Hands

This week, Paul, Jay, and Dana give quick PPP updates—and then dive into a discussion of what a $15 federal minimum wage would mean for smaller businesses. Will it lift people out of poverty? Will it put businesses out of business? Will it hurt entry-level employees? “I'm listening to you, Jay,” Dana tells us, “and I'm thinking about the coffee shop owners I know who have to close.” To which Jay responds, “They say they have to close, but did they try raising their prices 5 percent first?” We al...

Optimism in D Minor

This week, William tells Karen and Dana that he’s cautiously optimistic about 2021 because his clients are cautiously optimistic and because he’s expecting lots of turnover as the pandemic recedes. William explains how he uses a “Frankenstein” customer relations system to track what his clients read on his website and to sense when those clients are getting ready to make a hire. The system then prompts the Vanderbloemen team to give the client a call. We also talk about why Karen is tired of bei...

“A Fabulous Conversation About Marketing"

This week, we introduce Stephanie Stuckey, a new regular on the podcast who tells Dana White and Laura Zander about the iconic road stop business her grandfather founded: when it peaked, what went wrong, why she bought it back, and how she plans to rejuvenate it. Along the way, we discuss whether small businesses should outsource their marketing, how hard it is to find an agency that really listens, and what it should cost to hire a marketing firm. Plus: Stephanie offers a tutorial on how to eng...

I Will Be Here

This week, Paul Downs and Jay Goltz talk about their New Year’s resolutions. Here’s Paul’s: “My New Year's resolution is that we will be open on December 31st, 2021. And I don't know whether I'll have the same number of employees, but we will be open. I will be here.” And here’s Jay’s: “My New Year's resolution is: I'm not gonna do anything stupid this year. So far, so good.” Paul and Jay also talk about Paul’s disappearing backlog, each of their plans for PPP Round II, Jay’s efforts to lure one...

How Do I Manage My Managers?

This week, responding to a question from a listener, Jay, Dana, and Laura talk about managing people. Jay offers a four-step plan that starts with making sure you’ve hired the right manager: “Anytime you ever hear anyone complaining about their employees, it's a bad manager.” Laura talks about coming to the realization that her staff is not where she thought it was—and how that’s playing into her recent anxiety attacks: “So now, I’ve got anxiety about my anxiety.” Plus: Dana’s getting married! A...

All It Takes Is One Mistake

This week, in our final podcast taping of the year, Paul Downs, Jay Goltz, and William Vanderbloemen discussed the impact this year has had on their businesses and on themselves. William talked about the positive side of having to get back to a startup mentality: “It's definitely been a silver lining in the middle of a very dark cloud.” Paul talked about hoping he can offer his employees a good place to work for as long as possible: “I can give them probably another 10 years. And then beyond tha...

The Great COVID Churn

This week, Paul Downs, William Vanderbloemen, and Laura Zander talk about William’s prediction that 2021 will be a year of employee turnover. His theory, which he says he’s already seeing evidence for, is that pent-up forces that were blocked by the pandemic this year will be unleashed in 2021—especially as vaccines arrive and the economy improves. His advice: Make sure your best people feel appreciated. Or, as he puts it: “Better to keep a good employee—even if it costs you more than you think ...

She Was a Hiring Goddess

This episode is dedicated to Ivy Garfield. Back in 1996, Jay Goltz had no real hiring process and the results to prove it. “My hiring success rate,” Jay tells us, “was probably, I don't know, 30 or 40 percent, which isn't much better than whoever walks in you hire.” And then he asked Ivy Garfield to take over his hiring. As Jay explains, Ivy brought an instinct, an understanding of how to assess people. “She profoundly changed my business,” he tells us. “She was here six years. Most of my key pe...

We’ll Find Something for Them to Do

This week, starting with a conversation about crucial hires Dana White and Laura Zander have made recently—an operations manager for Dana, a salesperson for Laura—we found ourselves exploring some of the great unresolved debates of entrepreneurship. Which comes first when hiring: filling specific needs or finding places for good people? With sales people, do you motivate by paying commission or build a team by paying salary? And in finance, do you bootstrap to maintain control or raise capital t...

Are You Ready to Sell Your Business?

This week, Paul Downs, Jay Goltz, and William Vanderbloemen assess the damage of a stressful year. We started with the impact the year has had on the value of their businesses. Then we discussed whether they would be ready to sell their businesses if a generous offer were to come along. That prospect, Jay tells us, would likely cause him to do some soul-searching, but he would consider it skeptically. It seems to be a well accepted fact, he says, that most people who sell their business end up r...

This Week, The Pandemic Hit Home

For Jay Goltz, William Vanderbloemen, and Laura Zander, concerns about the pandemic loomed large this week as one of them had to self-isolate in his basement after being exposed to the virus. That fact helped surface a number of interesting questions: Are the three owners being careful enough? What should they tell employees who choose to travel over the holidays? Should employees who travel get paid if local rules require them to quarantine after they return? And if traveling employees do have ...

What Would You Do With $200,000 Right Now?

And so, yes, Dana White was in fact the big winner at last week’s Detroit Demo Day, taking home the top prize of $200,000 for her hair salon business, Paralee Boyd, which specializes in serving women with thick and curly hair and which has an unusual walk-in-only business model. Of course, Dana now has some decisions to make: Does she want to take the money in the form of a zero-interest loan? Or does she want to take it in the form of a convertible note, which can convert to an equity stake in ...

Man, If I Win...

This has not been an easy year for Dana White, who has had to close one of her two hair salons and who has struggled, amid the pandemic, to keep the other one staffed. But this week she reveals to Karen Clark Cole and Paul Downs that she’s a finalist for a potentially game-changing pitch competition. “A $200,000 investment from Quicken Loans is a huge validator when you're looking to grow,” says Dana. “When you have first money in from Dan Gilbert, it bodes well for your company.” Dana also tell...

REVISITED: That’s The Price

This, to say the least, has been a challenging year. So this week, we’ve decided to bring you two inspirational success stories by revisiting one of our earliest podcast episodes. Way back in November of 2019, Karen Clark Cole and Loren Feldman attended EY’s Strategic Growth Forum in Palm Springs where we conducted a series of interviews with participants in EY’s Winning Women program. Two of those interviews were with women who started companies from scratch and sold them successfully—learning ...

I Would Be Scared, Frankly

In this week’s episode, the tables are turned. This week, it’s host Loren Feldman who fields questions and takes advice after he explains why the BusinessAdvantage TV Podcast will once again be The 21 Hats Podcast. “The bottom line is: I am now the proud owner of a pre-revenue startup that has a daily email newsletter that we've been giving away for free, plus this weekly podcast that we've been giving away for free, and the designs for an unbuilt website that we had hoped to one day charge subs...

Landlords and Real Estate and Banks, Oh My!

In this week’s episode, Dana White, Laura Zander, and Jay Goltz talk about their real estate challenges. Dana decided to close one of her locations rather than keep dealing with an overly aggressive landlord. Laura, fearing her landlord was going to throw her out, decided to buy a building. But she hasn’t been able to close on the deal because, while she’s been to six banks, she has yet to find one that will fund the loan—even though she already has SBA approval for a loan. And Jay wants to take...

When’s This Gonna Be Over?

This week, six months into the crisis, Paul Downs, Jay Goltz, and William Vanderbloemen take inventory. What does the crisis mean for the future of their businesses? Has it changed them as leaders? Has it affected their relationships with their employees? And they come to some counter-intuitive conclusions. For one, William tells us that he suspects he will one day look back on the crisis and conclude it was the best thing that could have happened to his business. It’s been painful, he says, but...

There’s a Thin Line Between Confident and Delusional

This week, Karen Clark Cole, Paul Downs, and Jay Goltz talk about whether their businesses need another round of government support, whether in the age of COVID they monitor their employees’ behavior away from the office, and whether there are aspects of running a business they would like to be better at. One thing they say they are all good at is taking action when an employee has to be shown the door. As Jay tells us, “If we didn't figure out how to fire, we're not on this show, because we're ...

We Kind of Live or Die by Google

In this week’s conversation, Karen Clark Cole, Paul Downs, and Laura Zander talk about their approaches to digital marketing. After years of relying on Google AdWords as his only form of marketing, Paul tells us, he stopped his $12,000-a-month spend a few years ago—relying instead on organic traffic. What happened when he stopped? His sales actually went up. But now, with fewer people looking to buy high-end boardroom tables because of the crisis, he’s considering shifting tactics again: “I'm wo...

The Case for Not Pivoting

In this week’s conversation with Paul Downs, William Vanderbloemen, and Laura Zander, Paul explains why he’s not planning to pivot his business—even as his sales collapse. Normally, Paul says, his most reliable customers are other business owners. When they call to ask about a custom boardroom table, he and his sales staff know they are likely to buy. Right now, though, in the midst of a pandemic that has changed the way people look at commercial space, they aren’t even calling. A lot of people ...

The Most Expensive Hire You Will Ever Make

For years, business owners complained about how tight the job market was and how hard it was to find good employees. Well, so much for that. Funny thing, though. In this week’s episode, William and Jay talk about how, in many ways, hiring has gotten even harder during the crisis. Part of it is having to rely more heavily on Zoom. And part of it is having to sift through the many people who are suddenly available to find the right person. “The most expensive hire you will ever make,” William tell...

Hair Is Segregated

In this conversation, Karen, Jay, and Dana discuss diversity in hiring and marketing. Dana talks about the challenge of getting white customers to come to a hair salon that is mostly Black. Karen talks about the challenge of persuading Black candidates to join a company that does not have a lot of Black employees: “So the question is not: are they out there? They're out there. I guarantee they're out there. The question is: do we need to spend more time, more energy, and be willing to be patient...

My Jay Goltz Face

Paul Downs, Jay Goltz, and Dana White talk about how they would know if it was time to close their business, how long it takes to really grow up as a manager, what they’ve learned about managing—and occasionally firing—employees. “I think my staff hears me but eventually does what they want to do,” says Dana. “And that can be very draining because you wonder, ‘Well, why? I pay you. We’ve had training on it and talked about it.’” And Paul tells us that while he’s normally a pretty nice guy, he do...

I’m Not Going to Shut the Doors

This week, we introduced a new member of the podcast team, Paul Downs, whose company, Paul Downs Cabinetmakers, makes custom conference tables. Paul wrote about how close his company came to failing in both The New York Times’ You’re the Boss blog and in his own book, "Boss Life: Surviving My Own Small Business." That was during the Great Recession. Unfortunately, Paul is once again finding it challenging to sell high-end conference tables during a crisis. “My game plan is to stick it out,” he t...

Would You Start Your Business Today?

Doomsday Fatigue

In last week’s episode, we asked our panel of business owners this question: Would you be doing anything differently with your business if you knew for sure that a second shutdown order was coming? It seemed like a pretty straightforward question, but it triggered one of our guests, Jay Goltz, who called it a “stupid” question and encouraged the other panelists not to answer it. So this week, we decided to try again to see if we could better understand how Jay is processing these stressful times...

That’s a Stupid Question

As the numbers of new coronavirus cases explode across the country, Karen Clark Cole, Jay Goltz, and Laura Zander talk about how they are trying to make plans for their businesses. The conversation heats up a bit as it becomes clear that one of our owners (Hi, Jay!) isn’t quite ready to confront the possibility that he might have to deal with another shutdown. By contrast, Laura tells us, “We're operating as if there is a shutdown. So, yeah, we're operating the same way we were two months ago.”