98. Pat Longrie (Unity/Uniform Choice)

So the, the records are on a slight delay, but, uh, they'll get out as soon as they're done. We got to get those B size screen printed and basically, uh, yeah. So last week you can order the, uh, the record with like the Brian Walsby art. That'll be screen printed on the B side. Also, when you get that retaliate record, make sure you pick up that abrasion record, get that tuning LP, get that new death by stereo, fill up your car. You know what to do.

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So I kind of, you know, he was laughing about it. And I kind of got, you know, into researching what they were because I had no idea. And then the next couple of years, just, you know, getting into it just a little bit, not hardcore type until I went to my freshman year in the summer for actually for football, freshman football. And there was a kid there. I still remember his name, Rich Perez. He was a sophomore and he brought in the locker room because we didn't go home. I live too far away.

So in between two days, he brought his ghetto blaster and he played jealous again and the sex pistols and a bunch of other stuff. And it was, That's kind of 1979 or 1980 is when I was introduced to the new sound of punk.

It was something that was fun and loud and strong and obnoxious, and we got into it. I just jumped into it headfirst, going to shows right away if we can get somebody old enough that had a license to take us to shows. Luckily, some of the shows, like The Cuckoo's Nest, that was in Costa Mesa, they were not far away from where all of us lived. So we could get down there and the shows that we had to go to LA, like the Palladium and stuff.

You know, we'd all have to jump into somebody who had a licensed truck or something and go to the show. So it was an exciting time. And it's something that as soon as I heard the music and the angst in the music, it fit perfectly to me like a glove.

So, you know, you really didn't, you didn't have, um, a whole, uh, you know, network of places that you could go to find out where shows were. Um, And then, so, you know, once you got flyers, that was the key thing. They were up all over the place because the bands, that's how you got people to go to your shows. There was no, you know, go to my Facebook page or Instagram or Twitter. So you always go to the same places, Huntington Beach had all that stuff, Zed Records.

And to see who's playing, you get this, you know, set everything up that particular way. And when you see them live, it's just so exciting when you, when you, purchase a damaged or, or jealous again, and you're playing it over and over again. And then you can go to a show and these guys weren't, it wasn't like they were Led Zeppelin or, or, or the Scorpions. It was just regular guys showing up and playing.

And that was also extremely intriguing at such a young age to be, um, part, trying to be a part of something that, that I saw was, um, uh, a bigger hole for me anyway, uh, uh, and it was, you know, just being a part of it, getting flyers, getting fanzines, having pen pals with people, because that's what you did. You wrote letters back, you exchanged stuff, and like in the back of Maximum Rock and Roll or Flipside, people would just write in, you know, and then you could write them back.

And we later, with Pat and I, we did a lot of that with Uniform Choice. We just put our, I think the unity, we just put I think it was my address on the back of the single. And then you got mail, and then you just returned the mail. So it's kind of a bit of both seeing them live and then saying, you know, I want to do that. I think we can do that. It'd be fun to do that. And then going from there.

probably my all-time favorite live show that i saw just crazy just such good musicianship and fun and funny stories about jello trying to talk to the audience about you know politics and bombs and you know talking to the audience about uh the the politics of the day and everybody's like okay okay just keep playing but in a respectful way and he's like grabs a paper cup and crumples it up before a song and throws it, you know, kind of effeminately.

Like, this is a bomb that's going to blow up in our faces. And he throws it kind of effeminately. And just seeing that was just hilarious. Not that he was trying to be hilarious, but just Jello being Jello was just fantastically funny. trying to talk to 17- and 80-year-old kids about the dynamics of politics. Stuff like that was great. Any show at the Galaxy or the Thunderbird Rolodrome was crazy. A lot of TSOL shows there, Wasted Youth, Suicide of Tendencies.

The second, the first time they played down here, they played as a three-piece, and I had been pen pals with Steve and Kevin and so when we saw them it was like you know being like long lost pals best buddies when they came down they instantly had friends because all my friends you know I told them about them and about their single skin, brains and guts so when we came down it was great it was like seeing you know your cousin that you haven't seen in a long time it was just such a sense of

camaraderie in all of the shows that I you know especially the early shows and the early 80s, 81, 82, 83, stuff like that. Just so many, I couldn't even imagine. As I remember them, I'll just blurt them out to you as it comes back into my mind. But so many, every weekend there was a Friday and a Saturday night show. One could be in the back of somebody's house where you go see social distortion play. One was at my house.

I had a uniform, it wasn't uniform choice, but before uniform choice and before unity, But Pat and I had a band and we played at my mom and dad's house. I went around to all the neighbors and lifted up the garage and my parents were away for the weekend. And I had the craziest, we had the craziest show you could ever imagine here. We went for like an hour and 10 minutes and the police were never called because I talked to everybody and I knew all the people around.

And you know, everybody was here. Like Jack was here from PSOL and walking through my house, flashing people. It was just, it was hilarious.

because you can always find a guitar player, bass player, but it's really hard to find a drummer, especially in this kind of music. So we actually physically flipped a coin. I think we were sophomores in high school. Flipped a coin, and he went out and bought a PA, and I went and bought a drum set. That's how we started playing bands and just practicing with different guys to play guitar.

and bass, really, guys from Pat's neighborhood, actually, around Falk Valley, just kind of figuring things out. This is before Uniform Choice and before Unity. And then Pat had a chance to join Uniform Choice. They asked him to be a singer in Uniform Choice, and I was gung-ho, for sure. That'd be great. So, and then I went and started Unity. So, kind of around the same time, maybe Unity was a little earlier, but roughly about the same time. And Unity was with Joe, Joe Foster and I, and with Rob.

Rob Lynch, Rob and Pete Lynch were mainstays to the hardcore community. Went to every single show you could ever imagine. Great guys. They lived in Laguna Hills, right down the street from us. And I like Rob a lot. He's living in Arizona now, but he was just a great prop guy. And we had a bass player named Joe. And that's how it was different paths to play music. And Pat was playing in Uniform Choice and doing real well with that. And Unity was playing shows and occasionally we'd play together.

And that's how... That's how, um, we began playing in bands that would eventually, you know, play bigger shows and then record, um, uh, albums, seven inches an album.

Um, and I was there always thankful with the BYO with his, with his two brothers too, that we played like the Catholic grand with, uh, with Youth Brigade, lots of really cool shows. And then when I was asked to join Uniform Choice, we played a few shows with Uniform Choice and with Unity with the same members. And that was a lot of fun too. But we only played a couple of times like that, but that show was a hell of a lot of fun.

And that was the time that we had graduated high school, and I was going to college anyway. So it was just one of those things where it was extremely sad, and that's why we couldn't continue on with Unity. And then Pat went to Pepperdine, and I went to my freshman year at UCLA. And then that's how that came about.

And then the single... was Pat and I, when I joined Uniform Choice, we thought that we would start wishing well because at that time there really were only a few legitimate record companies, Touch & Go, Discord, a couple others, that you could put your record out with. Not a lot here on the West Coast, Poshboy and some others, but it wasn't what we wanted to do.

Those types of labels Poshboy and some of the others around here were going to give us the type of control that we wanted over the content. Not necessarily how much money we made because I never cared. I only speak for myself. I never cared about any of that. It was just about control.

So we decided to perform Wishing Well and instead of putting the Uniform Choice album out as the number one, Wishing Well number one, we thought why don't we why don't we do the Unity single because obviously John and Joe and I know all the songs. Pat was like 100% behind it because it was something that was like a brother band. So that's what we did.

We rehearsed and he learned all the songs and then we went into the studio at the Casbah and recorded that all live, all in the same room, doing it all at once. And it was basically, let's put out the unit single to kind of get our feet wet because we have no idea what we're doing. Type setting, you know, where do you get it pressed? You know, who would do that for us? How much money do we have to come up with? You know, all the things that, you know, we had no idea what we were doing.

So better to do that trial by fire with the unity single than the Uniform Choice album, Scream for Change.

Looking back in retrospect, there were things that obviously you'd like to change, if you can, about anything in life. But that's not one of them.

That was a good move because I really loved the Unity stuff we were doing, and so did Joe, and Pat got into it as well, and I didn't want it to be lost, and it wasn't, and we got Gavin to do some artwork, and I took a picture of Pat for the cover, thought about all the stuff, and I had my mom do the calligraphy for the titles on the back, and then they cut John Laurie's name off when they printed the sleeves, So he's always been known now as John Lowe. Actually, his name is John Lowe.

Chuck like that is hilarious when it happens. John was like, what? I'm like, well, you're John Lowe now.

And I'm glad we did it, too. It was something we put a lot of time and effort in. to have just not been able to get it down on vinyl.

And, you know, you got Pat Dyson, who's a great drummer and a character and a big, huge mountain of a guy. And then you got Pat, who, you know, it'd be hard to find a better hardcore frontman than Pat Dubar. I'm biased, but, you know, we had a lot of fun and it was aggressive. I don't know if many of your listeners were able to see Uniform of Choice live, but you got your money's worth. That's what I cared about more than anything ever is we had something...

We had something to say, and it was our voice. We were influenced by people, Ian McKay, Choke, Kevin Seconds. These people, Jack and Keith Morris and Henry Rollins, these people were not shy people. These were in-your-face people, and that's kind of how we were. That's how I was, and that's how Pat was, playing sports and being... aggressive. And that's, that's, that's what we came out with.

And especially with the, the straight edge slant to everything that we did was, I wouldn't say it was militant. It was, it was ingrained in us. It was something that we, we believed in and with all our heart. And you, you could tell by how much we cared about the lyrics and how the songs were structured. And especially, like I said, if you saw us live, you got your money's worth. There wasn't any fucking around. We came out to have just as much fun as the people that wanted to see us.

I mean that in a very humble way because we saw ourselves as just people that just picked up some instruments and played just like anybody else. Not any better, not any worse. We always watched, even on our tours, I watched all the opening bands talk to them You know, I returned all my letters, you know, stuff like that. So it's not like we felt like this is us. This is who we are. And this is how we view ourselves here in Orange County.

And this is the message we're trying to get out to the people that are peers. And then later on, you know, to around the United States with genuine anger. I would say aggressiveness rather than anger then.

We had so much fun.

So I would just, you know, bang away on the toms and on the snare and And I had one cymbal and a hi-hat. So the first show that we ever played, we played three songs in Laguna Beach, of all places, at a warehouse there. And I had no idea that I needed a kick pedal until I saw the three other bands that played before me. And I said, well, I better get one of those. Because I never had any lessons or anything. You just go out in the garage and bang around.

But I didn't buy my first drum set until... like a year and a half later, I scraped up money to go to a guitar center or something like that and buy just a CB-700, just a cheapo set.

I got a call from Pat and he goes, Hey, listen, I, uh, Dyson can't play. And then he's going to college and we got a show on Riverside. We're going to come and get you. Where are your drums? And I'm like, I haven't played drums in like three months. I'm at school. You know, it was hilarious. And he's like, no, no, no, you got to do it.

I'm like, um, Okay, well, and they went down, picked up my drums from my mom and dad's house, came up to UCLA, picked me up, played me their demo, because they had, you know, that's all they had. I think we did five or six songs at that show in Riverside, which was a crazy fun show. And it was great. And that's the first show I ever played. We never rehearsed. I only knew the songs.

because, you know, I like, they're my friends, and I knew the songs vaguely, and that was the first time I ever played, and that's when we started, and then I said, well, you know, we've got some time here, I'd like to contribute to this album, and, you know, they were all, sure, so we wrote two songs, we wrote Screaming for Change, we wrote Once I Cry, and Pat had written all of the lyrics to Scream for Change, I mean, the other songs.

And I said, hey, you know, I want to write the lyrics to Scream for Change and Once I Cry. Is that all right? And he's like, yeah, sure, no problem. So I was fortunate enough to write the lyrics and play on Scream for Change, the song, and Once I Cry. So those are the two efforts that I did for that album, Scream for Change.

It wasn't like, he was like, yeah, please. Because, you know, sometimes, I don't know if you've ever been in a band, but it's hard sometimes if you're the only lyricist. Just like it's hard if you don't get any help, if you've got to write all the songs. So I think he was like, yeah, great, whatever.

And he liked the words and it was able, we were able to do that And all the projects we did, the Unity project, the Blood Days, and then during the summer, we were able to, hey, you want to write these? Well, why don't you write these? And then I'll write these. And there wasn't any ego involved at all. It was more like collaboration. And that's what I like about the Guy's Uniform Choice, that it was a collaboration. Now, I can't play guitar. Pat can't play guitar. But we used to hum stuff.

I still did this with Foster in the Winds of Promise stuff. He comes in here and we write stuff and I hum stuff and it's hilarious. And then he can play on a guitar and that's kind of what we did with Uniform Choice and with Unity too.

Did you think that it was a little bit of a sidebar track, or did you think it was right in the lane?

Kind of, you know, kind of honestly, kind of like if you listen to Embrace, you know, you've got Minor Threat, which is extremely, you know, hardcore. But then you have, you know, the Embrace stuff, and they're going just as crazy. They're just not, the tempo just isn't as fast. So we thought it was a really cool thing. And I was happy that Pat sang that so great on that album, for sure.

And we took it very seriously, too. So, you know, we flyered stuff. We had T-shirts. And strangely enough, again, I'm only going to speak for myself, but I think I could speak for you. Doing the T-shirts and flyering was just so much fun. You know, making the T-shirt designs for Wishing Well and for the band was just a hell of a lot of fun. So we worked really hard to be able to headline shows.

You know, when bigger acts came through in years past, we would be, you know, we would be set underneath the headliner or maybe second. But after the LP came out, we were able to get more headlining shows and we respected that and worked hard at it. You know, we had, they had 15, 20 different t-shirt designs at the shows. And they were all, you know, seven bucks. You know, we had, um, different colors, multi-colors, sleeves, front, back, everything you could imagine.

So maybe we made, I think we paid Courtney 50 cents a shirt, something like that. I don't remember. And we made 50 cents a shirt. And so it's not, all we did was the money we made from the shirts went to buying more shirts and more ink, you know, and more, um, all the stuff that went into that. So to me, it was just the luckiest and most fun time to be able to do that.

So you hear all the stories about how like violent, gnarly offenders is like, is there any sort of like protection of your fans? Like if they're getting roughed up and so forth?

There's probably five to 20 that would come to most all of our shows. And if there was violence and there was, you're correct, a lot of violence at these shows, it was not, I'll just put it this way. It was met with violence. That's as simple as I can put it.

And if it was violence, protection thing, I would say that you're not far off with that assessment because we cared, truly cared about the people that came to the shows and were, and were, you know, um, humbled that they would come out and buy our records and buy t-shirts and always talk to them before and after the shows and just had a great time.

So if, if, um, If a skinhead bunch or some other faction was there just there to cause chaos, they were met with chaos at every turn and were never shied away from. So that was a good thing. So when you came to our shows, you knew that you would be protected and that you had people that were on your side. And that's how we wanted it to be.

Um, but again, at one of our shows, if you're going to show violence, then we're going to show violence directly right back at you. There was a show, um, One that I can recollect that we played in San Diego, of all places, which was also a very notorious place for violence. And we played with a band from New York, Kraut, who we really liked. I think their album had come out or their single had come out. And they were really cool. And we were playing. The drummer was sick as a dog.

He had the flu. But we were playing. And a couple of guys just kept messing with Pat. Up near the stage, messing, messing, fucking around, talking, you know, when he was trying to talk in between songs. And I tell you, we're playing in the middle of a song and the song is over and this guy kept fucking around, messing around, messing around. And Pat walked right up to him.

I think he was probably at, there was a small stage, maybe about eight inch stage, walked right up with the bottom of the mic, not the top of the mic. with the bottom of the mic and smashed him right in the face, as hard as he could. Dropped him, bam, down he went. They drug him out, blood everywhere, and he goes, okay, anybody else? All right, let's go. Boom, and that was it. No more fucking around.

You know, the guy wasn't doing, he wasn't throwing rocks or anything, but he was just, you know, an obnoxious guy, probably drunk, blah, blah, blah. There was like four or five of them, and there weren't any more after that. There was a lot of that at shows, but it was over quickly. if you drew something or if you, if we saw that you were causing chaos, it did not, it, it was not stand. We didn't stand for it. Yeah. Do you remember anything? We had a lot of, we had a lot of friends.

That's, that's the way it was.

So they played, um, after us, but I was, you know, seeing the, the other, other bands and, and, and, and I just wanted to make sure that we played a good set. And I remember that we did. I think I saw, I think there's something a few, uh, online, uh, somebody directed to me a couple of years ago that there were some videos that, and I watched it. And, um, and that, that was fun to be able to do that. Um, but you know, the specifics, you know, we all drove up there in the same truck.

That, that was cool. We all needed paths, jump, jump into a truck and we go all the way, we go up there together. And then, you know, we got to make sure our t-shirts are there and we set that up early and figure out what time and all that stuff, you know, but that was, that was a, that was a cool, fun show, but there were a lot of them. Cause we played a lot, quite a bit in, in from like 80, I want to say 86 to 89.

We played a lot of shows locally and, And then, you know, we, we did two tours back to back in the summers and that sure was a lot of fun.

And he wrote me back and we were, we wrote back, I don't know, a half a dozen or more times, long letters. And he would send me like, um, the stuff that he was promoting. Minor threat was playing. So he'd send me flyers and stickers and stuff. Just the coolest guys. He and Steve and Troy, just the coolest guys. So, so when we, when we, when, when they came, um, You know, it was like we were already friends. I mentioned this before, but it'll lead me to what I'm coming up to.

So when they played and they played, I think the next night they played up in L.A. and I went to that show. We hung out, had fun and just, you know, shot the shit. We had a great time. That's when a real friendship started. And when they came back around, I think a year later on tour. Unfortunately for them, my mom and dad were, were gone for the weekend. So I had the house and I said, you guys just come and stay at my house. So they did. We had so much fun messing around, having a good time.

They're very cool. They didn't, you know, they didn't break anything or anything that it was very respectful, but it was the funniest thing in the whole world. All of them would come down. I think Steve or Kevin's girlfriend came and a couple other people. So there's a whole bunch of people at my parents' house. With me. And we're just having a fun time. And that camaraderie came into us, you know, when they were doing recording. He was like, do you have any pictures or anything?

And I'm like, wow, I'm going to take pictures when I go to that show, you know, when they were playing. And then, okay, cool. Because I have pictures of that first show that nobody's ever seen of the Wasted Youth PSOL Suicide Appendices show. So I just brought it to like have a memento for myself. Um, and, and then Kevin was like, well, do you have any, you know, when they came back down again, we're going to do this record. I want you, you guys to come and sing backing vocals.

So we all did that. Joe and Rob and, uh, and, uh, a guy on my baseball team that went to high school with us, uh, and Dubar and Courtney, we all went there for backing vocals and I had taken a bunch of pictures. of the shows when they were doing, even at the Olympic auditorium, I took pictures on that too. And I just sent it to them and they, they were like, Oh, cool. And they used it for the back of the albums. And that's how kind of things were, you know, it was just like fun.

You know, I, I just had to look a little instant camera. It wasn't like any big deal.

And then I had to, all right, well, uh, let's, okay, let me, let me kind of figure this out. And that was the fun part for me was, um, you know, getting the typesetting done. I had to go, you know, and those days you went to a printer, gave them the stuff and they typeset it for you. So then you got to go back and if they make mistakes, they got to redo it.

I mean, it took forever, but like laying out the lyric sheet, um, how the colors for the lyric sheet, the colors for the album, how things wanted to be laid out in the back and stuff. That's the stuff that I really liked doing. That's what I did. And, um, I talked to the bands and stuff, and Pat and I always made the decision, you know, 50-50 about if we wanted to do something and how we wanted to do it.

But, you know, with those guys, it was kind of a natural thing because they were, you know, very straight edge and very aggressive. And I thought it was, we thought it would be really fun to be able to do something for them and Not necessarily. It was never in the beginning that, Oh geez, we need to build this label. Not at all. It was like, there's no, sometimes there's no place for some of these people to go without them getting ripped off.

And, you know, all we could promise is if you send us the stuff and you're recording, we'll get it done. We'll master it. Um, we'll put out a phenomenal looking package. We'll do T whatever.

And then we'll send you a bunch of, a bunch of, uh, records once they're printed for you to sell that's just kind of how we did it it wasn't like we were a big money making operation it really truly wasn't it was like if you want to put it out we have a place to put it out you can make some money with this and and by me giving you the album back and we'll just try to you know have enough money to make the next one that's kind of how it was

about a year ago, year and a half ago, Purcell, or Foster, Purcell got a hold of Foster and chatted a little bit and I said, you know what? Let me go in the basement. I went to the basement of my house and I found, I mean, I still had all their original pictures and that was something they really wanted. He's like, John was like, you know, Pat, could you really, that would mean something. And I'm like, of course. So I sent everything to them.

And then Revelation said, hey, you know, do you have anything? We'd like to put this on our wall. Do you have any of the, you know, original type settings and the stuff? He said, of course. So I gave it to them too. So there was no, you know, for me, there is no, there was no animosity. But I could see where they would think that they would be not having a record company themselves.

that this was just something that we wanted to do to be able to give somebody a voice and to have something in your hand that's yours forever and not 15 extra dollars. And I don't mean that in a mean way. It's just, that's not the way that I envisioned this. This was, we have, we can't, there's no one we can trust to put it out and put it out the right way with the right colors and the right, you know, um, lyric sheet being doubled and the size and even the uniform choice screen for change.

I wanted to do a poster and I said, I don't give a shit what it costs. We're not going to recoup any money off this stuff anyway. So we put the poster in the first, you know, that monsters poster we did. So it was about quality and not about making money. And I think maybe they resented that. I don't know because I never really had a conversation with them. Um, because it wasn't something that I was bothered by.

But Pat was the guy that took lead on like, hey, do you want to do Shades Apart? And I said, fuck yeah. That is a phenomenal record. You know, stuff like 76% uncertain. Yes, apology. Yes, shades apart. Yes, grave goods. Yes, stuff we really liked. I only wanted to put out stuff that I liked. Oh, this is cool and interesting. You know, that's kind of how we went about things.

one thing. And I regret that we didn't quite be able to do that because that would have been super cool.

And that's the, that's the only regret I have with wishful that I wasn't able to squeeze that one out. Cause that would have meant that would have been pretty cool.

I don't have anybody that I trust that I would put it out that we could give that back to somebody else. You know what I mean? That was just the coolest thing in the whole world for me to, to have that feeling, to be able to be a part. Like we talked about in the beginning to add my part, small part to the whole of hardcore. And that's, that's what it is. Whether I'm taking pictures or I'm just a regular guy going to all the shows and stage diving and having fun, it was the same high.

You know, being more a part of it with Wishing Well and with Uniform Choice Unity and stuff like that was great, but it was still that high of seeing a band like when Dag came through, you know, That was just so fun. We were fortunate enough to play with them when they came through here at Fenders. Uniform Choice played and then Dagg played.

I couldn't wait to finish our set and throw my drums to the side and get out there and sat and stood with Pat Dubar right next to the backup vocals and sang every single backing vocal on every single song. That was cool. See, just being a part of it, too. I couldn't wait. I was happy we played. We had a great time. It was great, and fans were great, and we had jumping around, and I think I chipped my coos.

But to be able to see a new band or a band that you were super excited to see, that was just as fun as playing for me.

And, uh, and how did you think it was going to be received?

We played everything faster, 10 times faster, even, even the other songs, but, those songs, you know, were a lot of fun, but we just wanted to, you know, I think it was, it was, we just wanted to come up with some other mellow type songs because mellower meaning just as, as coming straight from the heart, but in a more melodic tone. I mean, you know, if we didn't come out and say, we never had a conversation. It's so funny.

I've answered this, uh, uh, Quite a few times when my band, Winds of Promise, were on tour in Germany last year, it was so funny. People asked me more questions about Staring into the Sun than they did about Scream for Change. So I had to remember, like, oh, okay, well, it's not like we went out and said, okay, we're going to do an about face. It wasn't like we were TSOL, which were great friends of ours. They changed people and they were going to go a different era. It wasn't like that at all.

It was just like, hey, let's try this. Because if you had heard, if people had heard some of the demo stuff that we had done before Staring into the Sun, they were really hard. Even the Staring into the Sun songs were 10 times harder. But you get in the studio and Pat wanted to experiment. which he later did after he wanted to go and play more of a rock genre music.

So maybe that was, you'd have to ask him that, but that was probably something that was in the back of his mind about just trying to, instead of screaming everything, try something else, a different thing that could be a challenge. And it was a challenge to us doing it. And I don't, I understand where some people were not, receptive of it because it wasn't screaming for change too. But that's just not who we were at that particular time.

And it's hard to put yourself back 25, 30 years ago in your 19-year-old head. We didn't have any, I will just say for me, I didn't have any delusions of grandeur. I didn't think, oh, geez, we're going to go straight up to what? Playing where? The forum or stuff like that? It was just like, hey, why don't we try this? And hey, Vic, do you have something a little bit mellower? Yeah, okay, let's try that. And then I wrote most of the lyrics for it because I like to write lyrics.

I like the poetry part about it. And mostly all the stuff that I've ever written are very from the heart. It's not political. I don't really do any of that. It's more everyday type of things that I think most people go through when they're young kids. That's basically what it is. When people came to see us, especially on the second tour, they were like, hmm, are we going to hear this? It's like Bad Brains.

Bad Brains are as hardcore band as you've ever seen in your life, but they also play reggae. So depending on what HR wanted to do and what night, because I was able to see them in both, you know, they'll play 35 minutes of reggae and then two hardcore songs or 35 minutes of hardcore and a couple of reggae songs. That's what I think people thought in the second tour. And that's not the way it was.

We played a hardcore set as hard as you could ever imagine, because we understood that people were like, geez, we came to see, you know, is this going to be a hardcore show? Well, they were. Because, you know, every song was, you know, nine times faster than it was on the album. So that's kind of how I addressed it. Now, I'm just, you know, again, I'm just happy that people liked what we were doing and cared about it.

Because I can honestly say that we cared as much about hardcore, especially me, than anything else in my life. So it was from the heart. Sometimes there are hits, sometimes there are misses, but even in the misses, at least, you know, we were trying to go full force and whatever we were trying to do.

I want to do this stuff because obviously, why don't we just spend every nickel that we could ever make on this thing on the production and everything else? So we laughed about it because we didn't make any money on any of these things, especially the staring into the sun. But, you know, it was worth it. I wouldn't really, there's nothing you would change. I wish we would have had one more crack at a third album because I will tell you, 100% that the third album would have been harder.

We would have gotten back to a harder thing, a more hard, closer to screaming for change. With the other couple of things, more like Once I Cry, probably, if they were going to be more melodic. But that's okay. I'm very happy with the couple things that we were able to do.

And the funniest thing, trying to get there in time, and he makes, I was driving, because we all took turns, but I was driving like, oh my God. We get out of the car and everybody was peeking to the side. He makes me this little guy with a big wide brimmed trooper hat screaming at me, boy, he goes, I'll never forget this, boy, what in the hell do you think that you are doing? And I'm like, I don't know, sir. He goes, what are you in a hurry?

You sent three people into the cornfield by cutting them off. It took me 20 minutes to catch up with you. And they're all dying laughing. And I'm like, shit in my pants. He goes, what are you in a hurry for? I go, well, sir, we're in a band and we have a show. And before I can get it out, thank God. He goes, are you playing the fair? I go, yes, we are. He goes, well, boy, you better get going if you're going to play that fair.

Do I have your word that you will, after you guys play your check, that you will go to the judge and take care of this? I go, yes, sir, we will. And we got back in the car, and everybody was laughing at me, making fun. To this day, I laugh. I even tell my kids, if we ever go to Iowa, I can't drive. So that's the story. That's how the tour started. But it was funny. We played Chicago. It was crazy. We played CBGBs, I remember, the craziest show you've ever seen and that we ever played.

The place was so packed. You couldn't fit eight more people in there if your life depended on it. We played the show, and there was so much condensation on my cymbals that I almost passed out. It was so hot and hot. I don't know if you have been to a hardcore show there, but it was crazy hot, no ventilation, middle of the summer, 80, 90 degrees. We wanted to play well, and just playing like madmen, as crazy as you could go.

I remember just laying down behind my kit after, just exhausted, and then having to get up and go play the next night in New Jersey with the Goo Goo Dolls. The Goo Goo Dolls opened up for us the next night in New Jersey. You know, shit like that, you can't make up how crazy and fun it was. Then we played with COC in Buffalo, like, two days later. You know, we opened up for Corrosion of Conformity. You know, crazy stuff like that was just so much fun.

When I saw them, I'm like, everybody, you're heart beating, you're excited, you're playing, you're ready to go, pushing on stage for them to start, you know, and they come out and you're all awestruck. And I wouldn't say that they were like that, but I was saying that they were apprehensive. And then, As soon as we start playing, it's no fucking around. One song after the other, bam, bam, bam, bam. So it was like a tornado. And that's how it was.

And to see the joy and the chaos on stage and stage driving and craziness and people smashing into my fucking drums while I'm playing. It was fun. It was worth every second of eating 8,000 peanut butter and jelly sandwiches that we had to eat. um, on these tours and whatever else we could get, you know, I mean, it was great playing the nine 30 club was phenomenal because obviously that's Washington DC, you know, that's minor threat.

That's, you know, SOA, that's these bands, these crazy phenomenal bands that you have your singles in the albums and you get to play the nine 30 club. And we were fortunate enough to play with the Crichton who was a phenomenal band from, um, Minnesota and to have, you know, obviously, you know, you've got, you've got the, uh, the DC, um, uh, crew there coming to our show. You got to play well.

Um, and that was kind of fun excitement, you know, fresh, um, just freshness and exciting and meeting all the guys and, and, and meeting, uh, you know, the Ian's and the Collins and Roger from Dagnasty, these guys. And then we were lucky enough. We came back on tour that Roger, um, Marbury was, uh, the bass player for Dagnasty, uh, he and Mike Gitter were our guys who came out on tour with us. We just had so much fun.

And that's kind of, talk about it now is that's kind of the camaraderie of this stuff. I mean, Dag Nasty, Dag Nasty, the bass player in that band was hanging out with us, coming on tour, you know, helping us with our equipment and just having fucking fun. There was no, you know, ego involved.

I remember going to visit Kevin and Steve in Reno and they lived with their mom in a two-bedroom apartment and my friend Pete and I just driving all the way to Reno in my beat-up 710 Datsun liftback and showing up just, hey, what's up? Hey, Pat, how are you doing? We stayed the night and they stayed out on the couches and they gave us their room and then they're like, hey, we're going to Salt Lake City and to play a show with Pusshead's band, Septic Death. You want to go? Yeah, sure.

So I roadied, we roadied for them. You know, that's just the way things were. Just a lot of fun. A lot of great memories.

Um, and we get back and, you know, it was just, Pat wanted to, wanted to go and move to New York and he was going to play in a different, you know, like a kind of a rockish band. And that's what he wanted to do. He wanted to continue pursuing music that way. And I was, you know, I just graduated, I was graduating college and I was done. I, you know, I gotta, I gotta get going.

I gotta get a job and I had a job lined up and, Our last show was at the Country Club with Bad Religion and Toxic Reason. It was a great show. We had a great time. It was a lot of fun. And that was it. It wasn't like there was a big blow-up, big fist fight. Nothing like that. It's come to its end, its natural end.

in one of her rooms and we had staged the back cover Master Polo and Foster were supposed to be up and they were like two hours late because they went bodyboarding in Malibu and I remember Joe and I laugh about this we don't have cell phones back then so I'm like this guy was supposed to be here and this time they were fucking around um And they walked in the door, and I almost killed him. A Dubar had to stop me from killing him because we were sitting around waiting.

And we had done the back cover for that, and Pat came up with the front cover because he wanted to do... He wanted the first release on his label, Powerhouse, to be the Unity. And he wanted to redo... the vocals on it because he thought that he could do them better. I don't know about better, but he wanted, he was some stuff on there that he didn't like. Like I'm, I'm sure all singers don't like stuff perfectly that they've done in the past.

And then we had gotten together, uh, master Polo Foster and I, um, earlier, uh, and, and pounded out, I think it was four or four or five other songs and had a great time doing it.

It was one of those types of things, you know, just like throw some shit there, throw some junk around, bring some stuff you want to do. You know, we're going to just throw stuff all over the place and then take a bad color picture. That was all. It wasn't like, you know, some big, well thought out thing. Um, but it was funny to, yeah, I, I just tried to get the pictures over with cause I wanted to kill Foster. Um, but that's, that's, That's a 30-year...

That's something that's gone through my relationship with Foster for the last 30 years. Every third or fourth time I see him, I want to choke him. We get a laugh out of that all the time. Actually, I'll tell you a funny story. So Unity is practicing. So this had to be... This is at my mom and dad's house in Laguna Hills. So it has to be like 1980... 82, 83, maybe 83. And we're practicing for the 7-inch. And we're in my garage in the middle of the day, practicing.

And Foster and I could kind of annoy each other. I'll say I probably annoyed him as much as he annoyed me. I mellowed it out a little bit, but I was a bit of a hothead. And we were going at it. And I don't know what, he got mad and he goes, You know, something like, you know, fuck you. I'll kick your ass. I'm like, that's all I need. I was super happy because I wanted to hit him. So I said, hey, why don't we do this? And Dubar's laughing. I go, I've got boxing gloves.

And I boxed a lot as a young kid. He goes, you bet. I'm kicking your ass. So he gets on the boxing gloves. I put on the boxing gloves. And we're ready to go. And I go, go ahead. Go ding, ding. So Pat goes, ding, ding. He comes running at me. And I hit him with a right hand.

perfect right on the jaw he stumbled back flipped over my dad's old um aluminum trash can smashed into the um to the lawnmower and was laying there with his tongue hanging out so that's the kind of relationship that joe and i still have to this day but we laugh about it we don't it's not it's as contentious as before, because we bust up and laugh about these things all the time now. But, you know, he was equally as frustrated with me as band members get.

And I couldn't wait to jump over my drums to get to him. And it was just kind of fun. It was being bombed done, but to see him stumble back and flip over the trash can and knock into there, we all busted up laughing. It was hilarious. And that was it. One shot. I tell them to this day, one shot, knockout.

Because each one of these things, one paid for the other that paid for the other, it wasn't like we're a monstrous money-making machine. That's not how things work. And that's why we do that and make somebody else do a lot of the work. And the only thing we cared about was the fact that we have complete control over how it sounds, which they didn't care, and what it looks like, which they didn't care. So we still had those two things, and we were cool with that.

We did most of the work anyway, you know, the typesetting and stuff like that. So that's how that came about. And the end of wishing well was the same thing with the end of uniform choice. It was just kind of done. You know, there wasn't any, you know, bad words or anything like that. It was just done. I got to go do this. You got to do that.

You know, we play a Unifocos song, and we played a Unity song, Positive Mental Attitude. And that's a lot of fun to play. You remember to do those, because it was really cool, you know, to learn those songs again. It didn't take very much time. They're pretty three-chord slammy. But they're sure a lot of fun to play live. People seem to like them a lot.

um but for me it was just for fun just just having a lot of fun uh uh there are a couple of places down south that we played small little places and um it was in the kids that i had in the band were you know 10 12 years younger than me so i was just the drummer of the band it was it was fun though i had a lot of fun doing it um it was um a very upbeat, melodic-y, funky, punky stuff, but with guys who were not punks. So it was still kind of fun.

It's just, you know, Foster gave me a call. I don't know how he tracked me down. I hadn't talked to him in 25, 28 years. And he said, hey, I want to do something. And I go, I don't even own a drum set. But I had a guy that was selling a drum set. It's the craziest thing. Lock, stock, and barrel because he was buying a new one for his studio. He was a friend of mine. And so I went and bought it for like $1,500. Symbols, everything. It's the same kit I have now.

And I started playing and he came down and we just had a lot of fun. We weren't going to really do much. He's like, if you know Foster, I don't know if you know Joe. Joe likes the new next project. So he's like, we'll just put out a single. We'll get Rob on the phone. And Rob came down. It was hilarious. He came down from, uh, he was living in, uh, Arizona. That's where he lives. And we, I hadn't seen him forever. And I didn't even know he was alive.

And, uh, we got together and we had fun and was fooling around. And then he, I didn't know he was still friends with John Laurie. Um, and so we actually played his unity in my garage, uh, for the first time and played like three or four songs. It was just, it was hilarious. A lot of fun. That was like, uh, the beginning of Winds of Promise. Cause I didn't really, I just wanted to fool around in a jam with Joe, but he's always like, Hey, let's do a single.

That's his, Hey, let's just record a couple songs. We'll do a single. We'll do a seven. And then, uh, you know, that led to Joe Nelson, um, joining us and then just, you know, a couple of albums and we toured and we've had, we, It's been a lot of fun.

So I have to remind him, and then 30 years ago again, I had to tape record everything before because he'd forget his licks, his little riffs, which he's so wonderful at. So now I've got it. I go, hey, all right, this is cool. I'd hum something to him and we'd come up with something. We'd record it. It'd be done because he'd forget it. But next time, next practice we'd have, I'd go, this is what I need you to do. He'd go, okay. So we did that and it was fun. It was worth doing it.

nelson was you know nelson had not been in a band and never in his wildest dreams wanted to be in a band but you know decided you know kind of the same thing that i did is well what if you know it's just going to be a hobby it's going to be fun and i think after two albums and a tour and you know we've been able to play with uh like great bands like gorilla biscuits and uh and uh field day And a whole shitload of cool bands in Europe. It's just, it's very fun. It's very rewarding to do again.

I never thought in a million years I would. And I'm very fortunate to get that same feeling back, especially live. You know, you play a venue and there's a couple hundred people, but they love the stuff that you're doing and really want to hear the old stuff too, obviously. that that's, it's rewarding. It's fun. It's fun to play in that, that real, to get that feeling again of apprehension and butterflies before you play in front of an audience is something that I had missed.

And it was really cool.

Both my kids played football and baseball. And, uh, so I'd have to go there for football and baseball games. And my father of all people ran into him there and they chatted for a while, but, uh, you know, I never let on to anybody, um, really nobody's business, uh, the negative things that tear people apart. It's unfortunate. Um, but, uh, I haven't talked to him. I think the last time I talked to him honestly was, I think it's almost 30, 30 years. I've got 30 years on Thanksgiving of all times.

I remember having a conversation with him on the phone and, and, uh, that was it. And I stuck to my word that I wouldn't talk to him again. I didn't think that it would be this long, but you know, that's just the way life goes sometimes.

And, you know, my friends now that are, I'm 55 years old, the friends that I have now have no idea that I play music and think it's hilarious. that when I go over to their house to watch football or for a barbecue that I have like a Coke. You know, they think that's really strange. And I go, well, you know, that's just kind of the way it

And then I'll say the name, you know, like, you know, and they'll go, Oh, my God. Something like that will happen. Oh, I went to this show. I went to that. Oh, my God. And it's hilarious how that has worked in many more times than you would imagine. So it's really cool that something that was so little to be a part of something all these years later is very fulfilling. That's for sure.