67. Reflections 90's Nardcore Comp + Rob Calvert (Clenched Fist)

what's up everyone uh i think i'm gonna put this up as a bonus pod probably on the day of the lord because uh maybe jesus can nudge it along so it's not cursed anymore yeah yeah let's do you you guys know stew what's up stew hey what up yeah let's talk about how cursed this episode was so we recorded this thing how many months ago

uh at least I'd

say four for sure. And Stu left high kicks the cord like Crow Cop style. Like Crow Cop. And fucking disconnects the machine. So half the interview is lost. So I do the first half of the Rob interview again over the phone. So you're going to hear that. It's like first half of the interview is on phone and the second half is like when we did it in person. But it came out really good. He's a super interesting and funny guy. The story is super rad.

march march yeah uh The beginning of April, and then there was a show for it on the 25th.

That's right. So it was going to come out in the beginning of April, and we were going to do a big old release show at the end of April. But then the plant fucked up, and the tapes came back all corrupted. Yeah,

the tapes didn't sound good, so we sent those back. And then ever since we sent them back, they haven't been able to even... open the doors to the plant and put a big hole in everything because it's COVID-19 bullshit.

Yeah, so Stu returns the tapes to get them fixed. And then fucking the 100-year flu comes through. So it shuts everything down. So that's that. What you should do is you should follow the label. Stu, what's the label?

For the Kids Records, FTK. So it's FTK. It's on Instagram.

FTK Records. Yeah, FTK Records. And, uh, yeah. And follow FTK records, Instagram. So when this, uh, comp comes out, you listen to it. This, this episode is like our review of the comp. So you're going to get it all. And, uh, you know, you'll know from us or from the episode, like we've listened to it and it's fucking awesome. I mean, the nineties in the eight Oh five areas. So diverse.

Well, yeah. It's fucking two hours long because not only do I have localism bands, but also I have all these other bands that I would see flyers for but not know who they were. And I was like, who the fuck are these bands? So I figured it all out. and kind of brought it all to light.

Yeah. So it really is like, you know, you usually get a comp and you're like, well, what about this band? Why was this band left off or whatever? Like Stu actually documents like the 805, like every band in a really good way from like what? 1990 to 90.

Yeah. Literally a whole decade.

Yeah. So I think you guys will really enjoy it. And, uh, you get a zine too.

And I got the zine. I won't tell you any, but

I got the zines. I got 300 of them. So the packaging is going to be cool. You're going to get a cassette. You're going to get a zine. So just follow FTK Records Instagram for this thing. And let's get on with this cursed-ass episode,

huh? Let's go, dude. All right.

What up, everyone? This week is another episode of Talking Hardcore. And stoked. We're going to go into Stu's Reflections cassette comp. And it's fucking awesome. So there's that. If you would like to support the pod, please like, rate, and review wherever you listen to podcasts. Please just give a like. That'd be cool. Or leave a quick little review. This pod is awesome. You know, something short. It means a lot.

185 miles south. A hardcore punk rock podcast.

All right, everyone. This week is another episode of Talking Hardcore. That means we got Stu from Omega Point. Yo. And we got the legend, episode one, Joe Rivas. Hi. This week and this month, March, we are celebrating. Stu is putting out the Reflections compilation on YouTube.

Yeah, I changed songs because I'd listened to it a few more times. From when

you guys did the pod back,

number seven. Yeah, and just more opportunities were thrown at me, like, oh, there's this band, and oh, there's this song, and I just got more material. I listened to a lot more music from that time, and I was able to... Make it sound better and put songs that represent the bands more.

Awesome. And we got more pro mics this time, so we sound better. We sound way better than that first setup. Anyway, let's just jump right in. So, Stu, can you tell us a little bit about this comp? What's the format going to be? You're doing your own label?

No, I'm going through a poor enemy-based label that has... come out like the last couple months called uh for the kids records ftk i love that and um it's my homie jp who was in a band called strike fast uh like early 2010s hardcore band um such a good band and he just saw the spark and like all these kids starting these bands and Um, he just decided to run with it and started his label and he's put out a few bands on CD and, um, he's releasing the last strike fast EP on cassette as well.

cool. So that's coming out on cassette this month. Uh, yeah. Yeah. March. Super sick. So let's dig into the track list and, uh, Get everyone's take on this stuff.

Let's go. Let's start with your band, Joe. Oh, no. First

song.

First song. I think that it opens the comp well because it has that. This is the later recorded Oxnard version. There's two versions, one on the Psychobiology 7-inch, and then this one's on OK. It's on the demo. It's not on the 7-inch. Oh, it's on the 7-inch. Oh, it's on the demo. Too long for the 7-inch, huh? Is this like a three-minute song? Three and a half minutes? It's a long one. But I feel like this is the better version of the two songs. Zach, you disagree, but whatever.

Yeah, we can just leave it at that. But whatever, man. But whatever. No, I enjoy the... I mean, look, a lot of times the first thing you hear is... going to be the one that you emotionally connect with more. Yeah, absolutely. Even if you get into some band on their fourth album, it may be they're not classic material, but to you, it is. It is. So inevitably, like a lot of people talk about ill repute here in the song Oxnard, this is like, oh, hey, there's another song named Oxnard. Like, sick.

that's that song. Great song. Then we go into Shoes right after that. The masterpiece. Fucking love that song.

And you were saying this is a Morrie song? Morrie wrote the music, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Morrie being the drummer for the band, but he's one of those ridiculous guys that can play fucking anything. But Morrie wrote the music, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I was just going to say, this is a hell of a song because Burning Dog, you guys... do break out and get intricate sometimes with your instruments. But I'd say this is a pretty simple song as far as playing your instruments.

never had a car or a beer. Talking the shit to people you didn't even know. Yeah. Going around twice in the pit and grab a chick's tit.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's a bit disrespectful. But that's pointing out, you know, that she turned around and smacked me in my face. Yeah. Anyway.

Shoes. That's my absolute favorite song. Me too. That's a song I heard, then I realized that I like Birdie and Dog.

Yeah.

Yeah. Shout out Mumbles. Shout out Cockboy.

Those are great songs too, but...

Shout out Skip Groove.

That's your fucking jam, dude. And then we go into your brother's band, Boiler Man.

Oh, straight into Boiler Man. Ooh. And that's the match, right? It's a Revis family affair. I wanted that, yeah. This song is so like... intense like in your face like i feel like i'm getting like pushed by it like i'm getting punked it's like someone jabbing me like with it's moving at like a nice fast pace but like the the starts and stops of the guitar is like so aggressive and like the little breaks and so forth

and

then i actually really love this song and this is you know the second half of the song going into like kind of the rap metal stuff is something i'm not a fan of at all But... You like E-Town, though. Yes, it's a different style.

Oh,

okay. But this is... I really enjoy it. I don't... The song about it, like, it reminds me of, like... There may have been... It might remind me of, like, some song on one of the Tony Hawks or something that, like... Bring the noise. Maybe. It just... The song sounds, like, nostalgic to me on, like, the rap part.

Let's go into White Names on the Black Wall first.

So first, 7-Inch. I like the song. I wrote the bass line. It's like, yeah, I like it. It scoops. He's doing a song about the Vietnam War, like seeing the white names on the black wall of the memorial. Yeah. Pretty good anti-war song for a bunch of teenagers. I enjoy it, and

I like my bass line. Yeah, it's like the only song on the mosh part.

Yeah.

It's a good-ass mosh part.

Yeah, and that shit is straight lifted. Straight OLC. That riff is lifted. Then we go into Born Again by V.O.D. Yeah, and this is off the second 7-inch. It never really... Barely came out because it was on some Euro label break-even point in 99 copies, and then they put some out on cassette as well. And yeah, I love this song. This is definitely one of our best songs. I've talked in the pod a lot of times. I like songs about loving hardcore and the scenes alive, the scenes thriving.

guitar.

Yeah, I'm playing guitar. And this song is cool. It's new school punk rock. Roger playing as fast as he can on drums. Them just trying to sing nicely. And it's a catchy little song. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So close but so far away. It didn't have to be this way. Yeah. Love it. Great choice. And this came out on 7-inch.

It did. It wasn't on a label. It was just a blue 7-inch. I think it's

self-released.

Self-released. White vinyl.

White vinyl, yeah. Do you have it? I have it. Awesome. Yeah. I was wondering, because I think that they pressed a fair amount. 300 and 500. Yeah, I think they did five when everyone else was doing three. It's like, you're going to get stuck with a few of those. They never meant to do five, and we're like, dude, take these, please. Yeah. That's great,

though. Let's go into Clinch Fist. Nowhere Fast and Reflections.

I'll take it, Joe.

Well,

okay. So, yeah. Well, they're like your brother band, right? Them, F.A.Y., and Burning Dog is all like a unit of really close friends from the same area. Right, right. And all relatively the same age, same experience in the 80s with punk. You know, it's the tail end of the community center shows and all that stuff. And we go into the 90s and have this resurgence there in the mid-90s, you know, 94, 95. And we all started pushing pretty much at the same time.

It's the best song on Localism, and I just think that it represents what I'm trying to do, which is this is like a past thing. We're reflecting back on the past, which is that whole decade from 1990 to 99. And I just think it fit right. Because I had all these other fucking names lined up. best damn place in the fucking scene. To live and die in the 805. Fucking corny ass name. Why don't I just name it after the best song? You could

have named it Quality of Life too then. We'll get to that in a minute. Mori playing bass in this band. He was the drummer in Burning Dog but he's the bass player here. Forrest just such a fucking amazing Brian Baker replica, but from Oxnard. Riffs. With his own style, you know, influenced by Henry and Kyle and Tony and Casillas. He's an amalgamation of all of that stuff in one, and it's pretty damn good. I mean, he's still like that. I still get, you know, this new Nardcombe. that's coming out.

And

it's like he hits this fucking... This face-melting solo. Yeah. And then again, you're like, fuck, dude, this song can't get any better. And then they hit the chorus again, like go fast again. It's like... Like, it's just a perfect song. Yeah. Absolutely perfect. I just wish the recording... that we had a quality version of this. The original demo was great, and it sounded pretty good. We recorded it with John Lyons at the Liver Noon. But it's third, fourth, fifth generation tapes that it is.

really fun there's so much energy behind it

he goes

like he goes uh fuck one two one two fuck you it's just like fun shit like

yeah that forest lick you're talking about is pretty ill though yeah there's a there's a there's a serious forest lick on this song yeah yeah I just want to say about Reflection Studio. We did record that, or had them re-record that, the original band in 2012. So there is a version out there if you want to hear a slightly newer version. I don't think it has quite the energy that this does, but it at least sounds better. Yeah. Yeah.

Sweet. Yeah.

Got to hear it. It's going to repeater. So I put the two best tracks from the decade back to

back because fuck it. That's how I listen to this whole thing today. And I'm listening to it unsequenced. But for some reason, the two songs came back to back. And I was like, ooh. Like, it's a fucking duel. It is a duel. Showdown. I don't know. It's a fucking duel. I would call this one a draw. But I'd say... This Repeater song is off the hook. Repeater 800, Quality of Life. Yeah, Repeater 800, Quality of Life. And I mean, it's so sincere, right? And also kind of an angle that hasn't been done.

Dude, the vocal delivery is fucking perfect.

Yeah, from going to kind of like the mellower shouting to the big shouts. He just has so much dynamic range for a relatively... He's not hitting notes, so he's singing monotone, but the range... of like soft to loud is huge. And then, of course, Martin, the bass line is ridiculous. The notes that kick in to like... soothe the bass line down. You know, like...

Just him opening the

song.

Just the vocals opening the song. Yeah. When I heard that, I was like, where's this band from?

Yeah. No, I mean, it's a great song. It's neck and neck with Reflections as, you know, the greatest hardcore song of the 90s. Speaking of Pat and Max, you know, No Motive Kids in that band, too, with Martin from Dick Circus. And then Eddie Bug singing. Yeah. It was just a great combination of those guys together at the perfect time. Yeah.

Time and place.

Speaking of Martin, let's go into Dick Circus. Is it Monkey?

Let's go into It Is Okay first. Okay. And this is the pro-gay song.

Yeah. Just the same way we talked about loving anti-racist songs. This is like an anti-homophobia song. Yeah. And... Fucking awesome. And pretty early. You know, if you think about like 96 to do that. There's a few bands that are talking about it in the 80s. Of course. But not many. No, of course. But this is like... Kill, kill, kill. Homophobia. Kill, kill, kill. Homophobia. It's like sick. They turn it into a catchy song. The subject matter is great.

Because

John Carrara, the singer of Missing 23rd plays... drums in this band and He's playing so fast, and he does these fills in the song that just feel like he's fucking hanging on by a thread, and he's still pulling it off. And I was just like, oh, shit. And knowing, because this is before drum punches or drum fixes, they're recording this at the living room. I've recorded there before. I know that there's no fucking trickery. There's no tricks. Yeah, so it's like he's playing that fast.

Drop out of school. Maybe a monkey.

Exxon 83. If those are my three favorites, then this is probably my fourth favorite. I fucking love this song, dude. So I got to get the rest of the demo from you or whoever has it because... Joe for sure has it. You got it?

band with no effects guitars.

Yeah, because they're not writing a riff. They're holding out notes like a new school punk band would, but there's no octaves. And then the singing, it doesn't sound like... A crust band or a thrash band

or anything? I'd say it would. It's very like... I think it sounds like a...

I think the vocals sound like a grindcore band. Like one of those like Call and Answer, like grindy. It's just the... It sounds like Doom to me. Okay. Yeah, fair enough. Then it can sound like crusty vocals. But to me, it's just like the voice is so over the top. It just sounds like one of those bands would be on Gloom. You know, like they're opening for Monster X or some shit. You know, like... It's just wild out of this world shit. Yeah, dude. I love it.

Yeah. They were fantastic

kids. And then

Craig, who's my age, so he wasn't a kid. But yeah. Yeah, they were a great band. Like fucking Rathcraig? Hmm? Fucking Rathcraig? No. Another Craig? Riverbottom Nightmare Band. Oh, okay. Let's move on. But I don't

know if he was in Exxon

83 or Exxon OD. So that's what we were talking about in the first pod was which band turned into another band. And then we started talking about some 7-inch. Well, the goods turned

into the bads, right?

No, it was Exxon 83. They were Exxon OD. Before or after, Joe? Do you know?

OD was after 83. Oh, yeah. What if you wanted a big ligand? It's like, we're Exxon 82. More old school. Yeah. We're older. Pat Bailey singing, if I remember correctly. What did he end up doing after this? Anything? He was the first drummer for Night Demon. He's been in a ton of bands that I can't remember everything. You know, Zoli left Ignite. They're nicely looking for a singer. Really? Did you run Pennywise again? They should get this dude from Exelon 83. Perfect!

Fuck yeah.

Let's move on to Fixated.

Stab Me. Powerhouse of a band, huh? You can just listen to it and hear that these guys aren't playing, and then you read the song title, and it's like, yeah, these guys aren't playing. Stab Me. And their

microphone, some of the photos that I will have printed in the zine portion of this compilation, which will be about 20 pages long. Um, so get excited. Um, their microphone stands are like ribs and, uh, different spines, spines, different body parts of

people. Did you ever get to see him? I saw him at a skate palace. Okay. Okay. Did, did, did Bill bring his, his mic stands? Cause they would bring those everywhere. Um, I can't remember, to be honest with you. Of all the gear you need to bring, that's what you bring. It's so crazy. William was an interesting dude. What do you call that? He took all the meat off all of those bones himself and dried them and did whatever you do to the bones that people do.

For the kick,

yeah. Yeah, so... But we... The Burning Dog guys, we absolutely love this band, and we would try to put them on anything that we were playing, because we just love them. And... Yeah. Super rad. Zach's doing some good radio right now by looking at some part of one of the pages from Stu's. There's a It wasn't bad radio to you, the play-by-play of me reading. No, no, but now it's good radio because I'm giving you the play-by-play. Describe the whole page. Because they can hear you read.

Well, this band is just terrifying in my opinion. On their demo at the bottom it says, all rights reserved, unauthorized duplication could leave you violated with a broken arm.

That's a good threat that you don't hear a lot. No. I'm going to break your arm. William, he's all, man, I love your guys' name about Burning Dog. He's all, I got this idea that I want to shoot a video for you guys, and I'll be riding my bike, and I'll light a dog on fire, and it'll be like running, tied to a rope, and I'll be dragging it up Main Street. What do you guys think? No. No. Go vegan.

We don't want that at all. That's fucked up. Moving on. The Goods.

I listened to this today and I don't remember it. What do you know about them? They turned into a different band. Were they the one? Other bands turned into The Goods. Oh, okay. Yeah. Goods was pretty much the end. So some of the guys from Silence Forever, some of the guys from Unabombers became The Goods. Okay. Yeah. What's this song called? I can't

help myself.

Oh, yeah. I'm going to get mixed up with the band that did Freedom. Oh, that's Unabombers. That's Unabombers, yeah. Todd Wiesenbacher, guitarist, singer. Mike Runyon played bass, who was also in Silence Forever. And I think Kurt was the drummer. I can't remember who played drums, but the drummer, Kurt Wagner from Silence Forever. So... Cool. They were a good band. They had a very narrow window that they were a band, though. I love

the band name. I think it's a cool name. It's a perfect band name. Yeah. So good. Let's go on to the fucking legends. The tracks I chose, Jamie Just off of Big Rusty Balls and Roots, which is your favorite song, which you've talked about.

Favorite lyric. Favorite lyric. Yeah. Music. Yeah. My favorite punk lyric ever. Playing shitholes, staying at your house. Don't know why, but I love it. And then also, it's still good right after that. So let them come, let them go. We stick around because it's in our soul. No school old, no school new. What we do is what we do. Fucking brilliant. Yeah. It's what a fucking song. That's Tony. Yeah, I mean, lyrically, it's untouchable. Great song. Yeah. You know? And then Jamie Just, probably...

True reality.

Can't fuck with this. Like, I think we talked about it before. It was like... No Motive came out with that 7-inch that was like... You know, you didn't know what to expect because you'd never heard it before. And then it was like, oh shit, it's crazy. And then... I have a funny story about that 7-inch.

You do? I do. Go ahead. Jeremy Nardcore had a bunch of them and he was selling them at Fremont. Okay. And... People were like, what does this sound like? Oh, it just sounds like no effects. And so he was just giving people these seven inches that said it sounded like no effects. And then they came back and were like, this doesn't

sound like no effects. Well, I can't imagine anyone being upset. Yeah, seriously. Because it's like, I don't know, dude. The closest thing is like Linoleum or fucking Laurie Myers. Or just like these songs that's cranking on the do-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You know? That's...

That True

Reality's on? No, the No Moto 7-inch. Oh, the 7-inch. Okay, okay. Yeah. Sorry, you're throwing me off here. I'm like... No, but True... So I was trying to get... Stu said he had a story about the 7-inch, so I let him jump in. Thanks. Sorry, that threw me off. No, no. Well, I was just going to say, so the 7-inch came out. You didn't know what to expect, so it came out awesome. This is crazy. Yeah. It's like... Well, because it had a ska song on, so... Very good. But even that one went fast.

a transitional song because they re-recorded it and I think that it's a good bridge of gap in between this record that literally just sounds like... It sounds a lot like Battery and then they go into a completely different sound of the record after that.

It's got that droney feel to it and... Yeah, it's good, though. Let's go into Fooey. Ron Lee. Take it over, Joe. Yeah, they were a band in Ventura in the early 90s.

This

song is pretty wild. I was listening to it, and I was like, okay, I can see how this band, they're going for it. They're pushing it. They're one of those... outside the box kind of punk yeah bands you know like and the scene is like he's going for like a jello thing i think

yeah but then like

then i was like taking a step back from it it's like if you look at this outside like the box of like punk rock this could almost just be like like fucking stuntable pilots or something like it's like just kind of like weird like up-tempo like rock song yeah it's like it's catchy like Yeah, it is catchy. I was just like, oh, it's interesting. Guitar rock is limiting. Yeah. It's not that outside the box. Even though you're trying to be outside the box, it's like, I don't know.

Yeah, it definitely gets crusty. Yeah, as it goes through. I know,

but if you think about melodic and crust, and this is being like, what is this, 96, 97?

97. Let's go with 97.

Pretty... You could argue this is ahead of the curve. You know, I think that tragedy is self-titled year 2000. Yeah. I think like nausea, like nausea. Yeah. Cause like profane existence stuff. It's there was all, this sounded like it would fit with that.

Yeah. Like it's not a lot of the whole time like tragedy, but like as the, uh, There's so many songs that have the guitar intro. I just sing nausea immediately.

Well, because it's that dystopian feel, dystopian society kind of thing. And that's what they're trying to set up with the song. Sort of. But yeah, they were all good kids. Great vocals.

Love the vocals on that song.

It's been nice trying to help Stu out. With getting these songs, I reconnected with some of those guys, and it's been really cool, because I haven't talked to them in 20, 22 years, 23 years, some of them. It's crazy cool. Nice byproduct. That's the

point, dude. That's what punk rock's all about. Unity.

Unabomber's freedom. So I'm not that familiar with their catalog. Is this them doing a joke song, or...? Well, all their songs were sort of joke songs. You know, Hey Bitch, Where's My Crack? But this sounds like, is this like cover-y? Like that freedom, freedom, you gotta do what you say. Yes. Yeah, okay. Yes. Joke, yeah. Okay. Sort of, yeah.

Okay. Twangy guitars.

Yeah, but it was a fun listen. It was a cool song. Yeah. Buck. Buck, yeah. So I just want to mention his name and rest in peace, buddy. All right. Buck shit up. Do you think that this is the song that he should have chose? Do you think that there's a better Unabomber song? I would have chose Hey Bitch Where's My Crack, but... Because it's just funny and ridiculous, but... This is still a good song for them. Because I think it perfectly represents what they were all about. So

it's perfect. Hey, bitch, where's my crack? Sounds fucking good, though. Dude, it's so ridiculous. Fletcher, Buck, Todd. I

don't remember who played drums in this. Maybe Todd? I can't remember now. It's been so long.

Go. Fucking verminicious knits. Barbecue. Take it over, Joe.

Cool song. So back in the... You don't want me to do that. Who was the third bass player? The third bass player, I guess, would technically be Bobby. Bobby Q? Bobby Wilcox. And then that would be a whole different band, which would be... Shout out Bobby Wilcox. Code Hanger Kids. Okay. So I'm the second bass player. First bass player is Tattoo Howie. Anybody that gets tattoos in this local area probably knows who Howie is. He's an excellent tattoo artist.

Exactly.

Can't be that bad, right? We were there for like twice. We were there for six hours sitting in the car. You know, just snow.

We will. But first, Whereabouts. Album art with your handsome face on it. Battling the Nothing. Opening track for that record, too, by the way. Yeah. Also known

as I.A.N. When we recorded that, we recorded this at the Coast Chamber. They... Why does the uncontrolled demo sound this good? Because I did it. Me and Armo did this one. There's like a break in the song. And it's one, two, three. But Ian played it fucked up, the drummer. So it's one, two, three. Like half a three. So I had to count them in. Like when I'm almost doing the stuff. Yeah. So I would count, you know, when he's going back to do his guitar. So I changed it to I A N Ian.

Yeah. It sounds like far and, uh,

Yeah, I would say that more than anything. Because Johnny was really, really into Pharr, too, so it makes sense that that would be. I fucking hated Pharr so bad. Oh,

it was you that hated them?

Well, I think that a lot of us that went to shows at that time weren't fans of Pharr.

Oh, fuck.

You've got to understand, when you went to shows that showcased theater and there was no ins and outs, and you've got to watch some of these bands, you really don't like them. And the bills would be kind of mixed. I can't remember what show Far was on. They were just like, oh, my God, get the hate breed. Or

some shit. I don't know. I remember seeing a

flyer for a Far show. It was like Far, Rainchild. I think they... It was Farr and Snapcase or something like that. But I'll lump Snapcase right in with Farr. Oh, you don't like

Snapcase?

Not really. All right, dude.

All

right, one track of mine I'll never learn. What did you think about that song?

I thought the drumming was amazing. Drumming is

nuts, dude.

Yeah, so this is... Now, I think he got all his mojo from stealing Tony's cymbal. We made him that good of a drummer. We're still coming for it, boo. We're still coming

for it. There's videos of them playing, and he looks significantly younger than anybody else in the band,

and he plays so fucking fast. Dude, I don't remember it from back then, because there was guys.

Yeah. He's the 90s.

I don't know. I think you should almost just blow this song up halfway through the middle. You know? Yeah, explosion song. Just

out the tape lead. Oh,

yeah. I could just fade it out myself. Yeah, you could. Because, I mean, it's literally just the song goes twice, I think. Yeah. Like, there's no point for it being twice as long. They're not building up to something. The chorus is that good. Well, that's the thing, though, is I do enjoy every part of the song. This is a pretty good song, but it's just like four minutes is excessive. Not right on the Ancient Mariner, you know? Minute 30 off, and it'll be good. Because a four-minute is a lot.

You know?

And it's like,

oh,

God.

AAO, against all odds,

it's my life. I would love if you cut the song.

It's my life!

Yeah. This is us. Dude, I cannot be. You oi in the beginning, and

it's literally

the same riff from Nartro.

Yeah. Hey. I'm not about stealing riffs.

You're

stealing your own riffs, right? Yeah. Yeah, I could not be more embarrassed by the ois. Especially because I definitely...

You sound so happy when you're oi-ing.

I think that they talked me into it because they were all huge NoFX fans. It's literally ois because of the bruise and shit. Was that one

song?

The bruise, right?

Yeah. There's that song and they do ois in...

Oh, they do it on one of the songs when it goes up-tempo. Yeah, like Kill the White Man or something. No, on

Bob. It is on Bob.

So, the smell effects pod that we're doing tonight is... I mean, yeah, that's like... Those always are so embarrassing because like... It's straight coming off no effects. You know, it's like... Yeah. We're kids, dude. We're kids. And also, I have that line on there, a thousand people die on a jet, but marijuana hasn't killed one person yet.

Yeah.

Yeah. Jets don't hold a thousand people, dude. I know.

But see, this is a great example. This is a great example of pre-internet, dude. So good. Like, you don't know, like, okay, am I going to go to the fucking

library? Yeah, you are.

I'm going to go to the library and find out, hey, how many people ride on a jet? So I don't fuck this lineup. No. He's like, dude, a jet, it holds a shit ton, a.k.a. a thousand. Shit. Shit ton. A shit ton of people die on a jet. Marijuana hasn't killed one person yet. So good. Anyway, hack that shit. That's what we're changing the name of the cop to.

Oi, oi, oi. Wake snored. Fuck. We're derailed. We're derailed.

alright three point play heartbeat Zach

um I heard these are really nice guys yeah I work with Sean he's Sean's a fucking great guy Sean's a phenomenal musician too yeah um Dave Hall was in this band Dave went on to uh Kenji and uh Glass and Ashes and uh Young Lovers and several other bands in there too But,

yeah.

Another four-minute song. They had a real narrow window as well. So,

yeah. Yeah, it's like a lot of Shia LaBeouf tinged. Yeah, that was their main influence, Shia LaBeouf, too. Yeah. Moving on to It Doesn't Matter, The Time Has Come. You need to send me the demo, dude.

I got it. So, yeah, if you want to... If you want to include a song, well, it's too late now. Maybe. We'll see. But yeah, it doesn't matter. My first band, me and Todd, Kevin Herstein. Yeah, we'll see. I don't know. We'll see what happens. That sounds fucking good. Yeah, it's a good song. Maybe we can get you Mr. Brown

or something. Dude, that's the

song we want, dude. But that shit's embarrassing because I do the T formation. So what? Yeah, but... You know the T formation? It's like the generic poppy chords. Oh, okay. I

don't know the guitar, dude.

Yeah. Anyway, there's another one. I don't know. I'll get it. We'll see. Sick. That's the best song. But yeah, they're all whatever. Mr. Brown's pretty funny. That's the one that I got told by that girl at the living room. Yeah. Because, like, I had a line that says, I wish you were a horse so I could beat you when you're dead. And she's like, I don't like that. Like, I don't know why you have to talk about animal abuse. And I was like, you've never heard the phrase beating a dead horse?

Oh, yeah. No,

there's another

record. Great Rock and Roll.

That one, yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, there's a lot of trash on there. More of your bands, dude. Stay on your ground.

Okay, so what you got? I got Bound by Honor and Where It Ends. Okay, and so Bound by Honor, you took the 7-inch version? I did. That's the better version. I agree. Although people really, at the time, liked the Standard Ground intro on the demo. I don't think it was a very good intro. We covered that intro. Actually, that's pretty good. It's just it goes for a little... Too long. I think Rob

and I were listening to it. We were listening to Outspoken, and we looked at each other, because it was literally that. It was like a riff

from that. Yeah, a lot of that. But it's like, if you listen to all my songs, I do that almost everything. But I didn't write the... Obviously, Todd wrote the intro. Yes, he wrote everything for Standing Ground. So, Down by Honor, whatever. It was the hit song for the... I guess the band... or the first iteration of the band. I guess that was our most popular song, period. I joined the band for the 7-inch. I was not on the demo. But the song is a little too close to 10-yard fight.

Getting into where it ends. Yeah, which is probably... Which is the best song on that. And then, hey, need I add that this is an unreleased Stand Your Ground song?

Yeah, so it's an unreleased Todd Jones song. Yeah. So that's pretty awesome. This demo never came out. We didn't really want it to come out. You know, we kicked Aaron out of the band and then like the band broke up and it was just like... I don't know. Some of the songs from this last demo became... It's kind of sour. Some of the lyrics... One of the songs from this demo became an In Control song, and I took a set of lyrics off this and changed the music for another In Control demo song.

F-A-Y, Bleeding. Joe?

Yeah. This version of F-A-Y, which is Fuck All Y'all. Great name. Yeah. Oh, I fucking never knew that. Really? I

never knew

that. That's fucking wild, dude.

So awesome. There you go, Stu. Oh, shit. A little Nard knowledge. Yeah, so Peak is playing drums, Tim Antonio's on guitar, Dave Ortega is the bass player, and this singer is Dave Thomas. Later, String Quentin sang for them. Let's see, Forrest recorded this four-track. Yeah. I'm going to say late 1995. Forrest Cousin was the first singer, Justin Singh. You can find videos of Justin singing in F.A.Y. on my YouTube channel. If you care to look at Burning Joe. I'm not trying to get clicks.

I'm bleeding.

I'm bleeding. It's very hard. It's fucking hard. Yeah, it's rad. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Pika wrote this music. And then Dave wrote these lyrics. Dave Thomas wrote these lyrics. And Dave's like a professional singer. He's got a fantastic voice range. Did plays and operas and shit like that. So he's a really, really, really good singer. But can he dance? Yeah, I don't think he can dance. He can drive a UPS truck. That's tight. That's what he does. He can't do that.

P.E.K.A. is a genius, dude. Yeah, dude. He can do it all. Let's go into Pig Alley. Badass Boogie. This is Joe's soft spot

right here. So good, dude. It's good.

Badass Boogie!

It's fucking funny, dude. Yeah, it's good. I enjoy Pig Alley. So, yeah, here's another band that doesn't fit musically with anybody else. Maybe with Phooey, I guess, since Phooey's on this thing. But, you know, Stacey played guitar and sang. Stacey was such a diverse... He's like a... like the ultimate virtuoso cock rock guitarist, you know, like Motley Crue and you could play any of that stuff. But he fell in love with Fooey and then that led him into this punk rock thing.

Yeah. Speaking of Pig Alley, members that they share with Riverbottom Nightmare.

Yeah. So Stacey and Robert, and then Bobby Wilcox, who we were talking about earlier. Matt Klinsky, who was a singer at Patient Zero, which you

left Patient Zero off this thing. No, I shouldn't have.

Yeah,

well, you did. We have 45 songs now.

Yeah, because it's not on the... Let's talk

about that next.

Yeah. And Craig McCracken played guitar as well. They were

a great band.

They were a lot of fun. Narrow window of time. When were they around? I'm going to say late 97, 98. I think maybe a little bit later. Move the window a little bit. One year earlier Earlier?

we're going to get into, which is patient zero aliens. You're going to go with aliens. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember them playing with No Motive and Bouncing Souls at the Monday Club. Do you remember that show? Yeah. Another great band. Another band that was consisting of a bunch of the Ventura kids. You know, band swapping, not unlike it is today, where all the band members are all in six different bands, you know. Patient Zero was a great band. Caesar played guitar. Matt Kuklinski, who I just talked about for Riverbottom, was the singer of this band.

Yeah.

Which you also don't have Deadwind on here, but that's okay. Yeah, see, I don't think there was any recording. Two basses. A band with two bass players. They don't have Skinny Rogers either. Dude, well, Zarian's band had three bass players. Charmin? It was a band he did before Charmin. That's rad. Three bass players? You'll have to ask him. I think I saw it before. I think he had three bass players. And no guitar, though.

This is from the localism because I haven't bought that 7-inch off Discogs yet.

I can't buy that 7-inch with no cover for over $10. Exactly. It's like, fuck. I know. It's so hard to judge because it's like $15 for a 7-inch with no cover. Bobby, make that happen. Come on. Redo those covers. It hurts my soul. Yeah. You know? But I need it. I need to buy it. Yeah. It's missing out on the collection. So this band is melding from Richard's Knits into this band with a different female singer and then a different bass player, which is Bob Wilcox. That was out. Bob was in.

Super cool. Super cool song. And they call themselves Tardcore. Can't

do that anymore.

That was pretty funny. Probably couldn't get away with co-hanging kids either.

Dave stole all these posters from anti-abortion people in front of Planned Parenthood that went and jacked their posters from them. That

was their set design stuff. So cool. That's punk, dude. Retail prize up for bid in the next song. I fucking love this song, dude.

Yeah. This is why... It's a rage over. This is one band that I wish John C had been able to come sit with us like we had hoped, but... He knows a lot about them. He likes that band a lot. Well, because Mike Carter was in this band, too, later. You know, all the other bands that he's been in, Missing 23rd included. But I don't know any of the other people in the band, so... I don't have a lot, but I did see them several times, and they were always great. I think this singer was British, too.

Yeah. Oh, was Shannon the singer of this band?

British, yeah. Well, then I do know other people. Because I have a lot of material from this band. Yeah. The guy played guitar and sang, right? I don't know. Oh, I don't know. I felt like I saw him. Yeah, I think you're right. Because there's retail prices and retail. There's some photos of him. There were two bands with the same sort of people in it. I can't remember which one was which at which time. But I could be confusing other stuff, too. So I don't know.

Killer track. Yeah. Yeah. Destroy Babylon, Slavery Through Poverty, the song fucking rips. Danny Walker. Danny Walker, enough said. Just so fast, D-beat style. Kind of like Profane Existence. Esk Hardcore punk

Killer band name Fucking dope band name dude Chris Hagen playing guitar I think it's Gary playing bass But it might be Nick Manassian Yeah The fucking Rath later Fuck yeah But I don't know who recorded Based on this but it's definitely Chris playing guitar Yeah

Rainfall Untitled They can't find the title.

I reached out to Pat to find out. Pat played drums in this band, Pat Bailey. Cesar Tafoya was the guitar singer. And I can't remember who played bass. Somebody also told me that Jesse Janney played guitar. Stop Breathing and whatever else Jesse's been into. Yeah.

Yeah.

Good band. Yeah, melodic. Scramsy screamo. Screamo, yeah. Hardcore. Early. Yeah. Early rendition of that. Early, yeah. They were

trying to, you know, all those crusty kids were trying to get, you know, not trying, but melody was coming into their songwriting finally. So that song is a product of that. That's awesome. Yeah. But that band is a product of that, because that's like, I'm

going to say, 99. Oh, that makes sense,

timeline-wise. Another four-minute song,

right? Yeah. It's going to a song that's not four minutes. Peter Pan's Army. Genocide.

Sick.

I did not know Matty K played for this band. Super rad. Yeah. I play guitar, Steve Haynes,

bass player, Jocelyn, singer. And I'm not sure if Victor later, missing 23rd, is playing drums on this or not, or if it's already Mike because they swapped, and I don't know when that happened in the timeline. This singer, she does a really good job of making the song catchy. Yeah. She's a standout talent in this band. Yeah. Just, yeah, it's simple, good, catchy, great vocals.

yeah. dig it yeah fucking dig that shit uh let's go into the two missing 23rd tracks we got time will tell i chose these songs because well time will tell was re-recorded for control delete with another name it's called like on your knees i think yeah okay and uh i just think that i liked this version and i liked i like this song and i think it's cool i like the fade in yeah the fade in is really rad dude This was a

staple of late Missing 23rd sets. This song was always there. What was it? Yeah. They always play this song. Well. Bow down to the Bible. Yeah. Sorry, I don't believe in God. Yeah. Yeah.

Super cool. And then that song is split with Repeater 800. Yeah. And then I chose Control Your Life because that song is the shit. Hell yeah. From the demo, right? I think it is. I chose the version... No, I chose the original demo version because the demo sounds better than the don't move. What was it? Nobody moves, nobody gets hurt.

I think this song is recorded three times. It's not like both demos plus the

LP. But I'm choosing the first demo. Yeah, definitely. So I think it just sounds better. Yeah. Arch Enemy, Bring Them Down, live track from Mogs, 1991. I think it's a good live track, dude. Yeah. The quality's good. Yeah, the

quality's good. What does he say? He says something at the beginning of

the song. It's the opening track for their set, which I liked. It's just like, what does he say?

Can we all just bring them down? Do, do, do,

do, do, do, do. Something like that. Yeah. This band, Art

Genevieve, basically became, well, William became fixated.

Yeah. So... But it was that crew of guys. And Mike Starr, the drummer of this band, currently plays in the current band, Fuse. Yeah, Fuse. He plays drums in that band. Handsome Devils. What do you know about that band? I know little to nothing about that band.

Yeah, they had a lot of buzz, like 90, 91, 92, and then disappeared completely. A super produced track. Yeah. So do they do a CD or something? Because that song is super produced. Yeah, there was a CD. It's legit. And it sounds like first wave punk, but on the Buzzcoxy side, I would say. Yeah. Pierpont Kids, if I remember correctly. Some of them had money so they could get into a good studio and record and whatever. The drummer's dad was my dentist. That's cool. Hell yeah.

it's all about dude yeah give me all these cool flyers and shit i'm like you know i'm gonna print these for everybody else to see or like i get a hold of all these songs i'm like yo let's like bring it into other people's ears yeah

that's super important that's what it's all about to me so

same so glad you're doing that We have more, right? We have the last track. Oh, is this... This is

the track, dude. For Daniel or for... For Daniel, Don... Shout out San Diego. Fred Hammer, he was there. What? Yeah, he was there. Where? At the show.

Uh-oh. I don't know the story. You should listen to the pod

once in a while.

Bailey by Stalag. All I know is that they played it at Showcase once. That's all I know. Yeah, it's that story. Great song. Stalag, not Stalag 13. Stalag.

The song is Bailey and it's long. It's good. We're going to shit on this song for being long. Even that last

song. I said it's long. It's long, but it's good. It fucking sounds like Aerosmith.

I like the first lead a lot.

The first lead's so good, dude. It's so

good. But yeah,

longer song. But that wraps it up. It's a lot of fucking music, but this is more of a documentation than a compilation. I

listened to it today on my drive, and... It took me from the 405 where it meets the 101 all the way to the – what exit is this right here? Main Street? California. California Street exit in Ventura. And no traffic, so I don't know. Well, we know how long the thing is, right? That was a terrible way to – I guess I could have said it was 90 minutes.

It's an hour and 50 minutes.

Or also, it'll take you from the four of us.

So, in terms of distance, this record will take you somewhere. I'm just trying

to say, like, I was thoroughly entertained my whole ride. You know, it's like, there's not a lot of things that can... Do that for you. Yeah. You know? Like, I really enjoyed listening to it

the whole way. If you have a cassette player in your truck, car, or van, you will be excited to have this compilation.

I think you should figure it out. Digitize it. Get it on digital, too. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that's it. So we are going to go to Storytime and Forest. And then when we come back, we are going to have Rob... We're going to have Rob Calvert from Clinch Fist. Sick. Oh, yeah! All right, we're bringing in Storytime with Forrest. It's a quick story. Yeah, what's that? This is the quick story. We'll have him do both.

Okay.

Yeah. So tell us about Rob Calvert's grandma's answering machine.

Well, we were briefly talking about this outside. And it's just a funny side note before you guys listen to Rob. Love Rob to death. We've known each other for fucking how many?

We think we figured it out today. So it's 86 when John Ortega brought him around. And John knew

Pica. You're talking about the future now. Yeah. We figured it out outside of this.

So anyway, we're talking about Rob. We're just bringing up little things that we remembered. And I just remember calling Rob's house, and he lived with his grandparents. And his mom. And his mom. But his grandparents, his mom, and him, they all lived in North Oxnard. And yeah, whatever. It was on San Juan. I remember that. San Juan.

God damn it. Off a barn. Off

a barn. Somewhere in Ventura County this all took place. Right by Blackstock. So anyway. So obviously you can trust anything I tell you from this point on. No last names, fool. So I just remember calling and every time the answering machine would pick up, his grandmother left this outgoing message. And it was more long and drawn out than this, but the whole thing was just like, do you remember when the gallon of gas was just 10 cents? I do. Do you remember when a loaf of bread was a nickel?

that was

the fucking answer. But it was like way more drawn out. That was like this whole, like, you know, do you remember the great depression? I do. You know, but there was like, no, like, like, Hey, this is us. This is the Calvary household. Please leave a message. No, it was just like, do you remember the little rascals? I do.

But it was great. And then when we would go to Rob's house, you'd knock on the door and his grandpa would answer the door. He'd hobble to the door and say, and we'd go, hey, is Rob here?

Rob, it's not here. Rob? Rob? Hold on. Rob?

Rob?

Rob, it's not here. And you could hear fucking shit blaring from the other room. Like, punk rock. Like, Rob's grandma and mom aren't fucking listening to Suicidal Tendencies in the other room, right? But he's just like, Rob, no, Rob, it's not here. He's obviously fucking there. So we would just walk around to the side window. Go to his window and tap on it. I remember he had a mattress in his closet. Because he needed a place for his records and his fucking...

So

here's Rob.

No! No!

Yeah. Yeah. So, no, he's going to tell another story, and then we'll bring on Rob. Yeah, okay. This is real story time with Forrest now.

Okay, so you guys want to hear this... The San Francisco story? Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. Okay. So this is back when Joe and I were in Ill repute, or even after that, when Tony and I had a band called Critchin. And there was this band in San Francisco, really cool band, they're called The Sick. Anyway, sorry, I've been sick. Sorry, but they had been... They would get a hold of us every time they had a show at the Cocodrie. Because the Cocodrie was this really cool place.

music's playing.

Yeah, and you totally feel like nobody can hear you. Yeah. So Tony's tapping on the glass. And finally, I look behind the dancer and I can see Tony. I swear to God, clear as day. He goes like this, like, hey, that guy's jerking off. Like fucking as loud as if he were just to yell on my fucking ear, right? There's no soundproofing whatsoever. And I swear to God, I look and I see this guy like in between us. I see his reflection and you can just, he's just fucking going at it.

All right, let's bring on... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, dudes. Well, the Nard curse finally hit the fucking pod. And so what happened was we did about a 40-minute interview with Rob, and the cord came unplugged. And so I guess the way that this podcasting machine works that I have, it saves the file when you hit stop record. So if the power comes out, it doesn't get anything. So everything was lost, and that's a bummer. But yeah.

It happens.

Yeah. Technical shit. It's not

good. Yeah, ask me whatever, and I'll do my best. I know Joe's not here to help me with dates and people like he's so good at.

Yeah, he's really good at that. Well, you know, most people want a second shot. They always hit me up right after. They're like, fuck, I wish I would have said that. I wish I would have said this. But I think our interview kind of knocked it out of the park. So it's kind of a bummer that this is the one we get to do over because it was pretty great. I feel my best to remember. That's cool. I mean, do you remember where you were born?

Yeah.

All right. Well, you start there.

Yeah. Where I was born?

Yeah. Were you born in Nard or were you born in L.A.?

?

I was born in Port Hueneme, California.

All right. Yeah, that was my question, because the first interesting thing that goes on in your life is you talked about kind of growing up in the Church of Scientology. I wanted to jump back into that. Okay. So was that always a part of your life? Were your parents already in it when you were born? No,

no. The way that worked out, just briefly, the only reason I'm in California is because my mom and my dad, right?

Mm-hmm.

had sex in, like, Buffalo, New York. I probably would have been born in Buffalo, New York, but my dad was in the Navy, and he was transferred to Port Hueneme. He couldn't even pronounce that. He was like, Port Hueneme, what?

Yeah.

Telling my mom, you know, and so I was born there in 1970, December 2nd, 1970, right there in Hueneme Base, and five years old, I moved to Oxnard, down south side, far from where, you know, Joe Rivas lives, and Dobby and the people like that and the Winsteads. And then, yeah, I grew up like five years old all the way to like, you know, going like on 14 years old. My mom started going to these classes. I just stopped seeing her. Like she'd come home like super late.

So you're doing, like, out of a satellite in Ventura. You're not going to, like, that main one in L.A.? Yeah, exactly. Good point. Just

like UCSD is a satellite, we're doing, like, a little satellite. Yeah,

okay. All right. And so another really interesting thing about this time in your life is you're really young and you fall in love with a girl,

right? Yeah, yeah. So what happened was, briefly, L. Ron Hubbard, like, the founder of Scientology, like, he died, right?

Yeah.

But they didn't make it out like he died. They made it out like he had passed on to the next operating Satan, which is like, call them OTs, operating Satan, where your spirit can leave the body at will. And so he passed on. There was a big event at the Hollywood Palladium where everybody was like, all these sea organization members were dressed up. So CSEA, because they used to be on the ocean mobile ship.

Mm-hmm.

And all these Sea Org members were there, all dressed up in, like, military, like, uniforms. Like, you know, like, dress uniforms. And I was impressed. I was like, wow, this is like a naval academy or something. Yeah. It reminded me of seeing my dad when he used to come home from training. He was like, really nice uniforms. I'm like, what's that? Oh, that's the Sea Org. That's how you rent everything. And I was like, I want to be part of that. Yeah. There's that

familiarity. There's a familiarity to it.

Totally. Yeah. And they brought a recruiter down and I signed, I signed the billion year contract, the straight up billion year contract. And I joined the church of Scientology and my recruiter had a daughter and I wanted to have sex with her really bad. And, and they're like, no, no, Scientology, you can't have sex unless you're married. I was like, well, then how do I take care of that one?

Yeah.

So I got emancipated at 14, which gave me the rights of an 18-year-old. And I talked to my mom. I said, I'm going to get married. She's like, okay. She kind of went along with whatever the church said. And I reached out to my dad. At this time, they were divorced. Reached out to him in Virginia. I'm like, what do you think about that? He's like, yeah. No, he's like, you shouldn't get married until, for you, like 30. I'm like, whatever, I don't need your permission anyway.

Yeah, and do you take her back to your mom's house and she lives with you guys?

No, my mom stayed in Oxnard.

Oh,

yeah, yeah. Yeah, she stayed, and I jammed out to Los Angeles, right there in the Silver Lake area.

Oh, word. Well, cool. All right, and then that lasts like a year or so, and how do you get excommunicated from the church? Yeah, it's a hard one.

Like, how do you get kicked out of Scientology? Me, right? I just couldn't keep my pants on is what it was. You know, I was young. I had a lot of hormones going on. They weren't about that. They're like, you can't sleep with other people. Gotcha. And that got me into trouble. I ended up on this thing called the Rehabilitation Project, or it's called the RPF. You had to run everywhere. And you can look all this stuff up now. It's like all, you know.

yeah so you're hearing you're hearing that in like 84 85

yeah yeah this has been a been um early 85 late 84 somewhere around there i first heard that song

and and how do you feel about it it's just it's game changing big time

yeah because i don't you know i'd grown up listening to like i don't know Down in Oxnard, there was like, you know, it was at 104.7, like hip-hop, it was hip-hop stuff, and that's what you listen to, but I don't know, I had this weird idea in my head that once I got into junior high school, before Scientology, I was surfing, right? Learning how to surf, and surfers don't listen to hip-hop, surfers listen to rock and roll.

Sure.

And, uh, but there was something about hearing like that, you know, when it's, you know, when the song speeds up and screaming about something, I was like, this is epic. And it's just, I don't know, it triggered something in me, but nothing would come to fruition until I got actually, I kicked out of Scientology, which would have been an early 86. And that's when I kind of started going, luckily met the right people and started taking me to the early power line shows and, um, and Oxnard.

Yeah. So who, so you're coming back to Oxnard and, and see, do you start going to high school?

Yeah,

I skipped my entire freshman year. Yeah, so you go back in what high school do you go to? Channel Island. Okay, and you meet some dudes here?

Yeah, I met John Ortega. You know, I didn't really know where to fit in. I missed my entire freshman year. And welcoming. Yeah, play? Yeah. He's like, no, dude, we're going to go to a punk rock show, and all the HPL are going. This is like back in HPL, why do you need to hear locals? They were ruling things. Yeah, and he picked me up for my first show, and I didn't know how to dress. I tore up some jeans, put some toothpaste in my hair, and he opens the door to pick me up.

Yeah.

Like, my only concept of, like, punk rock is, like, that episode of Chip. Sure, sure.

Yeah, or the Rathacon. I

don't know what I was doing. He goes, man, come on, we're going to dress you. Put me in some regular jeans, you know, a regular Opie shirt. I'm like, really? We're dressed up like we're going to the beach? He's like, yeah, we'd be fine.

Yeah, this is Oxnard. We dress normal.

Yeah, yeah.

No fashion. But, yeah, so do you remember who the first show was and where was it at?

Yeah, 800... 800, I know the address. 800 Hobson Way. Charmine Productions presents The Adolescent. You know, it's funny. I think I still have the flyer somewhere, too. Someone had posted all these pictures of these early flyers of all these killer shows that I'd gone to, and I'd taken pictures of them. Let me see if I have that one, actually. Yeah, there it is. Friday, February 6th. 1986 to 1987. Adolescence, RKL, and Scared Straight.

Holy fuck. And what do you remember about it?

Well, epically, the moment was, you know, we showed up a little bit late, so there were a lot of people in there, and I think RKL had just finished, so I kind of missed them, but Adolescence went on, and And all of a sudden, you know, the floor erupted. Sure. And I'm thinking fight. I'm like, oh my God, this is dangerous. But the fight turned into like this controlled chaos of like this circular movement, like tribal.

themselves. Yeah, it is the tail end. It's just going to fall apart right after this. Right. But you're seeing the last throws of it, which is extremely lucky, right? At least he didn't wait one more year to go approach the hacky sack dudes.

Yeah, exactly. And so I was hooked right there. I was like, this is it. This is what I'm going to do. This is what I'm about. And granted, this is the 80s, so there's no access to Wikipedia, Google, nothing. You had to rely on one magazine, which, as you know, they called fanzines back then. We had Maxim Rock and Roll, and we had 60 Miles North.

Do you remember any other standout shows of that time period?

Yeah, 7 Seconds was a really fucking big one. They came out and did a really good show. There was another one at the same place. That's our center. Circle Jerks had came. It was a big show. And we had some local bands like Irony had come down. We played that show. Then they had like this band called Excel, which was like this. Yeah. And Excel was like more like rockers, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, they're insane. They still rip.

Yeah, totally. And then, uh, you know, DOA and DRI. And then, uh, then all of a sudden, you know, like one of our bands local was going to play another week, uh, Dr. No. And I'm jamming to Dr. No. And like, okay, next up is Social Distortion. And like Mike Mads at the time, this is like before Prince and Bounce, he was fucked up.

Right.

You know, up there. Hey guys, what's up? Social D. This guy was like just junkied out. And I'm like, what's up with this dude, man? You

know,

But I dug it, you know what I mean? I didn't really care. It was just part of the gig. And then if we weren't going to shows in Oxfam, we went down to 4 and Amy, and 4 and Amy did a big show with S&SU, the Meat Men, Blast, Corrosion, Conformity. You know, huge show at the Skate Palace. So it was like, we were spoiled, man. The bands were coming in, and people were organizing it.

Yeah, did you go up to Santa Barbara at all and check out that scene?

Yeah, yeah. So I got lucky enough, like I was saying before that time we had cut off, a flyer had somehow made its way down in this area. And the flyer said, the Ramones and RKL. And I was like, oh shit, I missed RKL that one time, right? The Ramones are old, but they were still like all original members. And I was like showing this to like, like Brad Smith and Pika and I'm like, we got to go to this show, you guys. And they're like, why? Ramones are old. I'm like, exactly, dude.

know. Yeah.

These guys, every member, it was like watching Snapcase. These guys just flew all over the place. They were jumping all over the place. And Ramones, completely polar opposites, just stood there.

Yeah.

But their music just, you know, their music just rocked. Yeah,

but it's the best of both worlds. It's like, it's both, it's two bands with a completely different approach that are knocking it out of the fucking park.

Totally. The show was excellent. You know, I'm completely young at the time and just, a lot of energy to do my thing, but I was just tripping on the Ramones and watching Joey up there just, you know, and the crowd's going crazy and they're just standing there playing this fucking cool music. It was only later in life I'm like, damn, I really scored seeing that show.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah, I think what everyone, I think almost everyone in Ramones is dead. I think everyone in RKL is pretty much dead. I think I could be wrong.

I gotta get a I'm trying to get Chris Rest soon because he's alive. And he's a guitarist. And then the bass player that came in later, he's around. So yeah, Chris Rest, come on the pod. I've been trying to get him. We've been phone tagging for like three months. Anyway, so around this time, you decide to stop being just a fan and you want to participate and do your own band. So how does BSOD come about?

Yeah, BSOD, bad sense of direction. You know, it wasn't anything, I'll be honest, it wasn't exactly, you didn't really have a choice living in, you know, the Nardcore scene at that time and not be doing something with bands or either roading or doing something. So it wasn't like I made a decision. It was just like things were just happening there. I ran into a friend of mine I was on a show with, Pika. He played drums. I happened to run into a guy named Eric Ferra, who played guitar.

Yeah.

He was like a little kid back then, and this party just raged in this garage. People were hanging from the rafters. We're playing rat race. Regression's there. The dudes from, like, and you've got to remember, like, Ventura and Oxfam was having, like, a conflict for whatever stupid reason, but this kind of unified it, you know? We were learning about how important unity was from, like, the Stern brothers, you know? Sure. Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, so there was a little schism, and you invite them, and then it's like, beef is squashed. Like, I want you to be a part of our scene.

We knew we were all part of something.

Yeah, and it's too small to beef, right?

Yeah, come on. Geographic, really? That's not separate. But I think there was a little bit more to it. There was kind of a racist thing kind of like happening with certain people that influenced other people. that cause problems with our people, you know, let's be real. The article was like melting pot of like, I don't care who the fuck you are. Oh, you're Chinese. I don't care. You're Filipino. Great. You play, you know, so when you go to Ventura, it's like, are you white? Whoa.

Okay. Yeah. Well, I'll start. I was looking up the demographics the other day. It's, it's like 75% Latino, you know, or more. So, you know,

I don't want to put all of Ventura in that category. There were just certain people. I don't mean to bring up any names, but they had influence over people. And that's what caused a lot of conflict. So this particular party helped break that. And before you knew it, more and more shows were happening. We'd go to Ventura to support them. Well,

it's hard to be white power with a bunch of Samoans in a garage. Tell me about it.

Yeah,

I mean...

Put your hand down. I never really understood it. You know, being a young person, being kind of naive myself, I never really understood why politics mattered in music as much as we, you know, sung about it. But, like, what's the point of, like, you know, Sieg Helling in the middle of the pit? Like, what does that have to do with, like, What we're screaming about over here about not being able to tie your shoe and your trunk, I don't know. It never clicked with

me. No, because everyone in the four walls is already a freak. So you need to come together. You have something in common that is not understood by the outside. Exactly. And so to create barriers within, when you're already a group of outcasts, why would you want to create more barriers?

Exactly.

Exactly. And I'm really proud of like the scene that we grew up in because we were embracing like, you know, punk rock culture the best that we could. We weren't, we weren't the old school punk rockers in the seventies. You know what I mean? We had, we all came, we all had homes. None of us were homeless, something like that. But we embraced that, that ideology of like, you know, do it yourself, you know, buy kids for kids, you know, fuck the nine to five, man, do something for yourself.

Yeah. And it's good to grab onto something you care about and take it seriously. Yeah.

We were in the right place at the right time is what it was, but we didn't know it.

Yeah.

You know, we didn't know that it would continue. We just thought, you know, we're being kids is what we do. We don't have a job. Yeah.

Well, it's funny you say that, that, you know, you didn't know it would continue because this generation is really like the, the most important generation of holding it together. Because you guys are kind of the ones that hold it together during the dark days because when all the bands kind of go away or go a little more dormant or change, right around this time, like 87 to the early 90s when there's a resurgence, you guys do keep it alive and keep it going. Yeah, yeah.

were doing

what we

loved.

Right. And that's what everyone does when they come in, right? You don't really know what you're doing at the time. It's very hard to have a vision when you're 16. Yeah.

Sometimes you'd have these moments like sitting at Denny's We used to raid the Denny's on Channel Islands Boulevard, and that's back when you could smoke in there. We would sit there until 3, 4 in the morning, writing music, smoking cigarettes, and they never really kicked us out. They just kept feeding us coffee. They're like, okay, as long as you're paying for your coffee. We'd write lyrics and thought we were changing the world. It was cool.

So how long does BSOD stay around? Not very long. How many shows? Do you play a bunch of house shows, though?

I don't remember, to be honest. I don't think BSD really played anything except for that major house party. We may have played like a couple of small get-togethers, you know, because in Wainini at the time, if there was going to be a party, there was a band. That was it.

Right. But it's an important band because of who was in it, and everyone ended up sticking around. Yeah. So after that, it merges into Solemn Fate, or is Solemn Fate something completely different?

No, Solemn Fate merged into Solemn Fate when Pika... had to leave. Pika said, hey, I gotta go back to Virginia. And he was a drummer. And then Davi came into the scene somewhere and he said, well, now that Pika's gone, you're gonna have to play drums. I'm like, yeah, right. I don't know how to play drums. He's like, well, you do now. Just sit behind that. We had to set that up and I don't know, I picked up on it pretty quick. I was like a natural, and it just felt good.

Okay.

They were from Thousand Oaks, and then we played, and someone else, some rock and roll band. It was a fun show. Yeah, it was cool, and I played drums, so that's what we did. We may have played a few more house parties in there with another band called Red Rum. They were really cool, too. We may have played with Disordered Youth, possibly. I don't think so. Maybe. But that show's important

to you because it's part of you participating Participating back again and helping promote, which you did a little bit of at that time, right?

Yeah, I would have been 17 at the time. I was unfamiliar with how the process worked, but learning how it, I embraced it. What do we do now? Well, you're going to need security. Okay, well, how do we get that? Nothing really held you back. How it is when you're an adult and you have doubts about things. Someone says, hey, you should do this. You're like, nah, I can't do that because when you're 17 in the scene and you're into it, nothing stops you. Sure. Well, how do we get a hold of this?

For sure.

And Laurel Jones, rest in peace. Joe Revis had dated her at one point. She helped make this happen. And we had that show. And, uh, and we built that stage. That stage was supposed to be for like, like NWA at one point, NWA was going to come down and escape out into a show, but it had gotten canceled. But we, we built that stage for them and we ended up using it for our show. You know,

did you get to build it on the clock? Did you get paid? Did you get paid to build it? No. Well, I don't know. I mean, if you're building it for NWA show, maybe that's a huge show.

Well, it wasn't, let me back up. It wasn't necessarily for NWA. It was going to be for our show, but NWA, we had found out they needed a stage. We're going to use it. So we're like, okay, you guys can use the stage that we built. All right. So I think we, I think someone in spray paint ended up. We built that Troy token house right there in front yard. We're like John Winstead, Joe Rebus, myself, and Aaron Horn, a few other people were there. I think Pika might've been involved.

When do you, uh, start working in radio? How do you get that

gig? So radio was very cool story on that was, um, I don't know if it's cool, you know, cause again, here we are with no internet, no nothing. You had, you had vinyl, eight cassettes, maybe eight tracks, I don't know if it's an eight track.

And, uh,

you know, what mediums could you have? And I came across a station, maybe a flyer had been passed around, you know, 91.9 KCSB station of the punk rock gig that was going on from like 12 a.m. to 2 a.m. on like, I don't remember, Thursday night, I think it was. I had listened to this guy's show on my little radio, a little boom box in my room. And he's like, if you guys want to hear anything, you can call in. I was like, oh, right. So I called this guy and I'm like, And his name was Doug Graves.

do.

Yeah, I do, right? I didn't even think about the fact that this was a major university. I was like, I'm just cruising up there and I cruise down to Stork Tower in Goleta because the station is right underneath the tower. And Doug Gray is a couple years older than me, and I started hanging out with him. I started learning the ropes, and he's like, you should get your own show. I'm like, I think you're right. I should get my own show. So I applied.

Yeah. So there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

You're the guest, man.

I'm trying to let you talk.

Oh, okay. That's great. Anyway, so that was, that was happening. And, um, I'm like, yeah, I'll do the FM station. And then, uh, you know, being young, we drank a lot, we partied and, uh, there was a big party out of this for one night. Um, not the night that we had played. There was one night that we had played.

It's pretty

nerdy.

I mean, if

it's on a college campus. They weren't taking that at all. Yeah. Yeah. But that was a really cool time because I learned how to do commercials and there was a lot of different shows I can get into. There was a place called MOGS, Xenon West, would later be something else.

Yeah.

In Ventura, the venue, right? They always have shows. Yeah,

Muggs, which turned into Nickelbees.

Nickelbees, thank you. Yeah, so there was a dude named Guy that ran the place. I guess he was the owner or the manager. And I just, like, picked it up with him. I said, look, I'll do free advertising for your venue. If I can get into the show for free. So I'd go to the show for free. I'd meet everybody. I'd meet, like, all the bands. I'd interview people. So one time I was interviewing Jack Grisham from TS2L. And I forgot his name when I was doing the interview. I'm like, what's your name again?

Yeah, yeah. That's wild.

Yeah.

So, uh, clinch fist starts in what? 94 ish.

Yeah. Yeah. That would be right around that time. What's happening? Yeah. So I had gotten way, way more into narcotics to the point where I, my family, I was selling, unfortunately started selling drugs. I got raided. I got arrested. I did time for it and I got out. I had nowhere to go. And then Forrest Lorenzana took me and was like, Hey man, you can, you know, you can live here with me and my dad and everybody. And, And Forrest would never stop playing music, you know.

Okay, so you record with John Lyons at the living room? Okay.

Well, you probably

also recorded in about three hours, so I don't think you have to hold it against yourself for not remembering.

Yeah, because what you

would do is you'd go, you wouldn't take that long to set up, he'd get the sound. And then you do all the music live, and then you just do the vocals after. And so you guys were a tight band. It's all like, you know, everyone's been playing 10 years at this point. You're basically professional musicians. And, you know, you probably jammed all the time, right?

know for me, for me, and it's unfortunate, but I remember being at the studio thinking, Sure. Sure. And I knew that someone put together a compilation, the localism compilation, but I didn't know how any of the logistics behind that happened. I just showed up, man. The magic was done behind the scenes. Honestly, it was like Donovan and Horace and Maury. I mean, I guess they were holding it together because I wasn't.

But I was there. Yeah, you're on the recording, so that's a win. Here I am. And you killed it. I mean, you went in and killed it. The vocals are great. Thank you. This episode is about Stu's comp, and you got the title track. He named the comp Reflections.

That's so awesome. Yeah, it was such a fun song to sing. It was really fun. I enjoyed most of the music, and again, I loved it. Low Smoke, of course, is that, but the guy just had a certain style, like, of his guitar playing, and then it backed up with, like, Donovan, like, the way he hit his drums. It felt good. Like, I was up there enjoying the music. Like, not just like, oh, I'm in a band, and, you know, what they want to do. No, we felt it. We felt the music.

Yeah, and at least it got documented, right? Because there's plenty of great bands that you can remember in your history of punk rock that you saw live, and you have nothing to play to someone to be like, this band really was great. It's all just a memory. But you laid down those tracks, so it's not forgotten.

Thank you. I'm going to think of something. You said that. I wonder how many people out there, all the bands that were alive for maybe... a hot second that didn't record.

Yeah, I mean, so, you know, thankfully, pulled it together enough for that. Yeah,

or didn't record decently enough. I mean, one of my favorite bands ever from Ventura was a band called Fixated. Yeah,

they did a... They have a demo. They do. Yeah, they have a demo. So it's there. We can get it to you. Joe definitely has it. Yeah, because I... I fucking love that band. But the demo, the demo, I don't think that the demo didn't capture like how powerful they sounded live. That's what I'm talking about. You

know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't, it didn't catch it in time. You know, I mean, there was a band called stale fish at one point. I don't even know if they got anything on red rum. Did they get anything on record? I don't know. All these little bands. The Disordered Youth actually put some stuff out. One of their songs was a little controversial at the time, but no one knew any better. But whatever, they were a great band.

But Clenchfist does play some big shows. There was that Jughead's Revenge show. Yeah, we did.

Somehow someone put together a show at the Armory in Ventura. Great big show. A lot of kids showed up to that one. That was a lot. We had a great turnout. I was feeling particularly good that night. There's some stuff, there's some video of it maybe somewhere. Yeah, that was a big one. I think Bernie Dogg played that one. Yeah, Bernie Dogg was there. Doug Epstein was there. Wonderful show. I don't even know who paid for that.

And then you guys played an infamous show in Isla Vista. A what show? An infamous show. Wasn't this the Riot show?

Yeah, that was really intense. Anytime anyone who's listening has been to Isla Vista back in the day, or even now, the place goes off.

Let's set the story up, Rob, because this is the story that we're going to we're going to finish on because then it picks up after this. Well, I mean, we'll, we'll take time to, to wrap up, but I love Vista for people that don't listen because our listeners are from all over the country and there's some international. This is the, it's like the neighborhood outside of UCSB, the university of Santa Barbara. And there's basically like a neighborhood where all the college kids live.

Yeah. Yeah. There's like, you know, Yeah, you broke it down. Kind of like a miniature beach community. Yeah, a

mini beach community. And then also, like, you know, everyone's having house parties. So, like, you were talking about in Oxnard, like, you have a party of a band. And in Isla Vista, you know, on any weekend, there's going to be, like, a handful of bands playing different parties. Like, my bands went up and played a bunch of parties. I saw No Motive play a bunch of parties. You know, and you're walking down the street. And so some band's playing. You go check them out or whatever, right?

show in some house. Someone organized it. Someone knew somebody. Yeah. Again, I was never quite involved in getting the details. I was told, hey, Rob. We're going to go play a show. Let's go. We're playing. I'm like, all right.

yeah and is the show inside or are you playing like out on someone's like front patio

yeah

that's the

move yeah so like The patio's right there. The street's in front of us. So you have a million people walking by. So people are walking by drinking. They'll just stop and hang out. And we're going for it, man. And then we, for some reason, I always loved the songs, that drama-rama song. Yeah. Anything. I just thought it was a fun song. So we decided to actually cover it. Forrest Greeter's like, yeah, let's cover it. Why not? Makes all the girls happy. And I'm like, all right. Anything, anything.

sure.

I see something flying. I see a beer bottle going. Next thing I know, I see a cop coming over, another cop. And like any good punk rock band, no matter what's going on, you just keep playing. Sure. And chaos ensues, man. And someone got hit, and a cop got hit. Another cop got hit, and there were people screaming, and we're just like, anything, anything? Wow, dude, someone pulled the plug. You're like, anything, anything? All right, let's get the fuck out of here, you know?

Nah, the story has been told. I just, that's the fun thing about the pod is I don't get sick of hearing the stories and, uh, you know, people that, uh, tune in it's like the same i think because what it is is everyone painting a different angle of a story right we all remember things different and we all put things in different context so

exactly that makes a good story yeah yeah i love it one of the clenshaws of john clenshaw or his brother was definitely involved i'm listening with faith there you know

No last names. That catches us up so I can put the other in. I'll edit this. Man, I'm sorry that happened. I'm sorry that you were the victim of the Nard curse, but maybe it's an honor. Shit happens.

Throw it out there. I'll be the victim of the Nard curse. Looking forward to hearing how it all comes out and edited. Thank you for taking the time and and redoing it. So it's like out of the way now. No, thanks for

being so generous with your time. And, uh, is there anything else you want to say or anything you feel like you didn't get out of the first time?

No, I, I probably just making shit up if I said anything else. I'm just trying to remember like the facts and I'm glad I talked about disordered youth because they, they were a real influence. Yeah. For a lot of us back then.

happy. Cool. You feel like you've been well represented.

I think so.

All right, cool. Hey, and you're always welcome back. So when we, when me, Joe and Stu do stuff, we're always looking for a, a fourth man for a fourth man to shoot the shit sometimes. So we'll bring you back on at some point.

I'd love that.

All right, cool. Thanks so much for your time, Rob.

All right, Jack, have a great evening, brother.

All right. You too, man. Goodbye. Bye. All right. Now I'm going to patch in the second part of the Rob interview with Joe and Stu. And here we go.

We're

bringing on Rob Calvert. Here we go. Who knows? A little glitch there. Whatever. Yeah, it was almost like when the guy shut off your amp at Laserstar, Joe. Oh, man. Except it was Stu's foot. I was going to kill the security guard. What happened? We played Laserstar, and some guy, the security guy, just turned the power off. Which turned my amp off. He killed the power. But it was my first tube head, and I freaked out.

Very

calm? Yeah. Listen, bro. First you've got to put it on standby, then you've got to shut off the amp.

I was

animated and a little bit loud. Rob's

seen it many times. Did you throw headphones at him?

Yeah, no, that was another time. I think he threw a cymbal, not headphones. Oh. He was upset about the headphones, so he frisbeated a cymbal at Tony. Okay, where were we? Clutch Fist, just talking in general shows. Oh, right, right, right. The ball show of the... You're talking about the Jughead's show at the Armory and saying it's not going to live up to an Isla Vista riot, but what is? Yeah.

Those are the only ones I really remember, I'll be honest with you. It was like Clenchfist and Burning Dog were always doing stuff together or trying to. Was Burning Dog your first

band?

Yeah.

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, Dignity became Burning Dog, so yeah.

Because you played a show at a house party down near Ocean View. It was like your first time ever jamming. Remember that? F Street was Boothy's house at my first show. That was it? Yeah. What band were you in then? That was

Dignity. Dignity! Which was Keebler, myself, Dean, Dean McCarty. What year is

that?

That was 88.

Holy

crap. 89, 89. I don't

know. 88. Okay. See, I'm getting my dates all mixed up. But no, Clenchfist, we didn't stick around too long. I mean, we ended up doing the Reflection song

that ended up being on the Localism album. And we were real big on doing our own merchandise. We'd make

the shirts in Forrest's oven. And we made our stickers and we'd go to all these shows. And there was this one venue that was right off the freeway where now they're

like. Deja vu, horse shacks. Yeah. Whatever.

We'd hang out there and just give out our stickers and stuff. And the problem was with me is I just couldn't. I was on probation. So I couldn't be around alcohol. I couldn't be around this. So I was constantly going to jail.

Yeah.

For probation violations. So that just kind of caught up with everyone. And I'm like, Rob is obviously not down to put this thing together. And it was too bad because the song was getting some popularity. And I just couldn't keep things together. And so I was out right around 96.

What was the killer song? Yeah. So, can't take that away from you.

Yeah, there were some fun times. I wish we could have done more with it, but, you know, things went on and Joe did a bunch of stuff and stuff's happened, but...

Yeah, well, everyone's going to hear the song because this episode we are going through Stu's comp, the Reflections cassette compilation. Yeah. Do you have a label? Exciting.

FTK Records. FTK Records. For the

kids' records out of Portland, Amy. Cool. So, yeah. Fun. Everyone's going to hear it, and it's the title track.

There it is. That's pretty sick. The two got Nowhere Fast and Reflections on there. There

we

go.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love Reflections. But Donovan's got some powerful drumming on

that song. Yeah, the toms. And if you actually

go on YouTube, there's a video of that song, of me singing that song, if you want to see me completely drunk. But we jammed it. Yeah. And you get a chance to see Henry Knowles at some point in the video

that Joe Rivas uploaded for us.

Yeah. So if you go to my YouTube channel, which is Burning Joe YouTube, there's all sorts of... Live recordings from... What's the name of that bar?

El Tapatio?

No. The Camelot. The Camelot. Oh, shit. I played there. Yeah. Against all odds. We were all underage. So we had to show up and set up and then leave. Yeah. So there's a whole bunch of, there's two or three different Burning Dog shows on there. One Clench Fist show. Clench Fist played at the Camelot Room? Yeah.

Sick. You can actually type in Clench Fist on YouTube and that video pops up. That Camelot show.

F-A-Y with Justin singing. So before Dave took over. Some Last in Line videos too.

Yeah, that would have been around 95, right? 95 for that.

I'm going to say it's 95, yeah. Our friend Richie had worked at this bar that his aunt owned. I think he still works there. And he's like, hey, bring some bands and play this thing. So we'd just show up. It was wonderful. He'd give us free beer. The first show, he gave us free beer. That was the deal. And then after that, he never gave us free beer anymore. But he brought us sandwiches and stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was a fun time. 95 was really cool for me. Also, like, at that time, I was also kind of, like, roading, sort of, for, like, Vermicious Knids and Dick

Circus at the time. And they were doing stuff out. They were always getting killer shows out in, like, Santa Monica, cool venues. You know, and Thought Festival was still around doing their thing at the time. Just

a bit, yeah. Because Pico was really focused on FAY at that time. So

as opposed

to, like... Not always

focusing on Clench Face, but always helping out other bands. That's just what it was. You

just hung with bands. It was a community. Yeah, totally. So let's talk a little bit of positivity, because you got sober. Yeah. You want to talk about that? If you want. Well, that's part of your life, right? So let's talk about it.

Yeah, it was a trip, because like I said, in 1994, it all ended, man. I had a gun in my face from the Oxnard Police Department. They raided the house, and they're like, you're done. And they found a bunch of dope, and I was like, that's it. And unfortunately, it would be another couple of years before I actually kind of grasped being clean. I went through a lot of trials and tribulations through Clinch Fist. I was just trying to maintain the band, but I'm not a dope fiend.

Mm-hmm.

Except when me and Donovan would get together, it'd be a wreck.

You know, I was just like, you guys

can't do that here. We're like, fuck you,

dude. So are you guys fucking high or fucking early? No,

man. No, no. What are you talking about?

And I worked for this agency. Well, I can't say I worked for them. Our friend had a stripping business, and she had this place out in Down by Market, way past Salzer's, and, you know, men would come in and get massages. And she let me and Donovan, like, kind of hang out to be, like, security after hours. And Donovan would set his drum set up in the back, and we'd just, like, rail it up in there, just, you know, just

high as fuck. And Donovan would play drums, like, all night, and we'd light the candles, and I would, like, sing stuff, and he'd play drums, and we were just sweating.

So, so epic.

I'm like, how you doing? Like, you know, three in the morning. And I think the beginning, you know, it's funny. That's, I think, where Reflections was born in that room when he was just playing

with candles on, sweating in his underwear. Dude, I think I got something here, bro. Yes, you do. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that went on for a while. And then finally, you know, they I was doing another violation of probation. I was in work furlough in Camarillo and I brought drugs into, you know, a correctional facility and they busted me in the facility with drugs. They're like, you're going to prison. You are done bringing drugs into our facility. You're done. And luckily, I ended up going to court. I found a judge who was lenient and said, no one's ever offered this guy a program. And I said, that's me, man.

used drugs or alcohol in 23 years.

Yeah, shout out to that judge, huh? Thank God. You know, people need to get treatment. It's an illness. It's fucked up. You can't be incarcerating everyone that fucking... it was a big win for me but at the same time it was kind of bittersweet because the people who I wanted to hang out with was my music scene but my music scene was like almost toxic for me at the time sure so I was trying to like figure out like

should I get into the recovery group and do I want to like I would still Forrest would still take me to NA meetings he was cool like I'll take you you know and I was just trying to get to know people but slowly I was moving away from the scene the active scene because I was trying to get clean and just find my place you know And now that I've found my place, thank you, Joe, for keeping the scene alive. And Stu and you guys doing what you do.

Because now there's like, I don't know, like a reemergence. And thank you for doing your podcast and bringing all this stuff together. So it's like,

yeah, I'm older now. Fuck, I'll be

50 next. I'll be 50 this year. What the fuck? R.I.P. Hardcore R.I.P. Joe, what year did you get clean? I got clean about six months before Rob. Okay. And did you guys lean on each other at all? Not... Not the first four years.

Joe embraced the whole straight edge thing. I knew what it was about, but I wasn't.

Rob took meetings and I took straight edge and tried to make that my thing.

Yeah, more power to you, man. If you're out there having a good time, go for it.

But if your life is unmanageable, if you're fucked up, there are ways out of that. So just throw that out there. Call Rob. Yeah. We'll put his number on here after. Just for the Patreons. If you need a sponsor, smash that Patreon. You can get Rob's number. I'll sponsor you. I want to say this again. On the Patreon, you're going to put the love line thing that I sent you. Yeah, yeah. The whole clip. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a good move, right? Yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure.

like I said, it's a blur into the jumble of like, I need you to go, what happened in 88 and 93? Okay, because yeah, there were some weird years there. And all I can really remember about the early scene, like I said, I'll reiterate, was mostly it was like house parties, like whose house are we going to and where can we set up? And you didn't have a party in Wainimi or Oxnard unless there was a band. That's just how

it was.

Someone set up.

Yeah. Well, that's why we're doing this, is everyone's painting a little piece of the picture. Yeah. You know? No one can remember everything. Jesus. You get enough people, though. Yeah, that picture becomes more bright. Sure. Right. Yeah. Very poetic. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. You put it together. Do you feel like you've been well-represented? Joe, have I? I don't know. Have you? I don't know. I'll be driving going, oh, I should have said that. Oh, you will. Yeah. For sure.

motherfuckers, they edited that part out.

No, no edits. We'll edit. Thank you for having me. It's been an honor. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming. Thank you. Appreciate it. Love you, dude. Love you.