What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, we got the king of mosh calls, the king of stage dive calls, the all-around man, the big jefe, Scott Vogel from Terror, holding it down. And yeah, so he's coming up. If you would like to support the podcast, please like, rate, and review wherever you listen to podcasts. Please take the time to give a little review. I like this pod, you know, something like that. Share with your family and friends, and that is much appreciated.
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185 miles south, a hardcore punk rock podcast.
This week we have the main man, Scott Vogel, from fucking every band ever, right?
Too many. Thank you for having me. This is the most professional microphone, whatever this thing's called, setup I've seen in a podcast. I appreciate that. You're doing
it big. Well, shout out to the Patreons who make it possible. Amen. Man, this shit could get expensive. Literally, I could not do this right now if people didn't help out the pod like that. Because I've got to come here and set up somewhere. This place is... Like, I can't get a motel. You know what I mean? Like, there's no space. There's no table. There's no chair. So it's like, then I got to be in a little Airbnb and I got to spend like, you know, $1.50 a night on the low end.
And you don't want to feel like you're on tour staying
in some shitty
motel. Yeah. I mean, so anyway. Shout out to the Patreons. And we got Vogel this week. What's up, man?
Yeah. Not too much. Yeah. Just... We are in Ventura because Tara's playing a show tonight. We played one show yesterday. It's a short thing, so I don't have to feel like I'm in full tour mode, just
vacation tour mode. Now I got a shotgun putting this out so people don't realize that I record things seven weeks in advance. Oh, shit. I just blew up the timeline? No, that's cool. That's been like... a successful move with you recently, right? Doing shorter runs. Cause I, I, okay. So it's just a dude that does not tour. I haven't gone on tour since like Oh three. Um, I felt like you were like posting some this year, like your schedule is just daunting.
Like you're posting something coming out all the time. And I think I texted you and I was like, dude, your schedule is fucking brutal. And you're like, well, it's all short runs.
Yeah. I think we, uh, mentally and physically, uh, To do, like, this is six shows, then we have a week off and we go to the East Coast for ten shows. And then we have, let's say, three weeks off and we go to Europe for, like, less than two weeks. So, to some people or your average band, that might sound like a lot, but to us, we used to do... I think me and Nick were talking the other day and he told me one year we played over 300 shows. Good God. Which is fucking insane.
I would... I would not do it. You couldn't pay me enough to attempt to do that. I would not make it. And you played 299 of them wearing a fucking hoodie like an animal. I hope so. The other one, I took my shirt off completely to make up for it. But you're finding the balance. That's important. I think we're not so young anymore, and to tour that much is... Fucking... It beats you up physically and mentally.
Like really being around people that much and staring at the back of someone's head in the van for eight hours a day for a month. We did this last summer, July. We went to Europe for three weeks and then we came home for like a week and did six weeks with Stick to Your Guns in the US. And that's the longest we've done in a few years and it was too much.
Yeah. Well, I'm very happy that you responded that way, that this is easier for you. And you're finding a balance because terror can never break up. You know?
It's cool. I couldn't see a terror without Nick. I don't want to say me and Nick are more important than anyone else because everyone's very important. But I always... kind of check in with Nick and he's always like, I want to do this forever. I want to do this forever. I want to do this forever. So that, that keeps me knowing that we're in a good place.
Yeah. And I think it's awesome because, you know, there are a lot of longstanding East coast bands that have lasted for a long, long time. And it's nice that terror is, I mean, it's almost 20 years now and in two years it'll be 20 years. That's amazing. What are the hoods at? The hoods have got to be pretty. The
hoods are there. Because I know Despair played with the hoods, so they've got to be 95-ish. Yeah,
well, I think that the 7-inch on Rick DeLife's label was 95. Jesus Christ. Yeah, and the Lone EP was 98. That was my favorite era. But I love all the hoods shit. That first Victory record is insane.
The era with Ben and Mario, that's great.
They were so awesome. Yeah. I mean, they still are. I went and saw them in San Diego a couple years ago. They played a bar and it's fucking awesome. But it's, it's kind of like, it's a different vibe. It was like kind of a party vibe with Mikey. Yeah. Yeah. Cause Mikey has like that, that, uh, that personality. It's like a party personality goofball. Yeah. You're going to have fun. It's infectious. Right.
We're like, I mean, Mikey hood, he didn't, he didn't get the credit he deserved for being like a crazy guitarist. Like he was awesome. I remember seeing him at showcase one time and there weren't that many people there and I was standing right in front of him watching him. And he was fucking insane. Plus, he was kind of like a pedal guy. And he was like, dirt on this pedal, and dirt on that pedal. And I was like, this guy's a serious player. I don't think he ever got the props for that.
And an insane songwriter as well. All right, Hoods had done it longer. But I would never want Hoods to break up either. Me
neither. I'm glad they've done it longer. I love when I'm at a show or on a tour, and there's someone fucking older than me. I'm like, thank God. Yeah.
When did you start feeling that way, do you think? Old? It's like 28, huh?
Hardcore? I think you're... Yeah, that sounds about... If you hit 30 and you're still into hardcore, you're definitely old. Yeah. I mean, upper 20s probably, too. Yeah. I turned 40 this year, and so that's different. That's not a good one, either.
No. I hope the 40s is as good as the 30s, because the 30s were great. But I do remember there was a time, maybe early 30s, and... San Diego used to always have a bunch of house shows and I would go. Cause I mean, take offense has been an amazing band for over 10 years also. And I just went to see him at some house and it was like, you know, literally like the parents are home. You walk in and, and then everyone there was like 20. And I was like, I, I think that this is the end.
It's like the end of going to house
shows. Like I was creepy. I think now sometimes like, you know, we, we always stay at hotels now just because we're able to, which is great. But you know, Obviously, everyone that knows touring, a lot of times you stay at people's houses. I think now if we ask, like, if I was on stage, like, yeah, we need somewhere to stay, and some kid took us to his house, I'd be, like, the same age as his parents. Yeah. Isn't that wild?
It's
so weird. Fuck that. How old were you when you got into hardcore?
Oh, shit. Let's go with, like, 87, 88. 73, 83.
So, uh, like 15, something like that. Yeah. 15 and 88.
Probably right before I started freshman year. Okay. And what, like what grabbed you? So, um, I lived like outside of, so Buffalo is a pretty, pretty small city in the first place, but I lived with my mom and my two sisters like out, like, I don't want to say in the woods, but like past the suburbs, uh, In a little town, I guess you would call it. So what, 45 minutes outside? No, because Buffalo's so small.
You can't even... I mean, you could probably get to Buffalo in 20 minutes still, but you're out. But maybe let's say a half hour outside of the city. So at that time, I was total jock. All I did was play basketball, baseball, football with my friends and on teams and all sorts of shit. And I also was really into like... Motley Crue, Rat, Hair Metal, I guess.
Also, though, when I was young, maybe fifth grade, my mother's boyfriend at the time gave me Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath on vinyl from his collection. No, I think Black Sabbath self-titled and Paranoid. He gave me both the records, which is super fucking cool. So that got me into also like Iron Maiden, ACDC, stuff like that. So I'll take all this as... I was on the right path to insanity. Could you
tell that stuff was better than Rat?
Or is it just all rock? I want to say, yeah, but to be perfectly honest, those guys were on TV all the time and Circus Magazine and stuff like that, so I probably thought it was extra cool. Now, yes, I can. Like I said, I was with my sister and my... My two sisters and my mom. My father had divorced my mom. He lived in Buffalo. And he had met a new woman in his life who had a son. So this is my stepbrother. His name is Jay. And he was into cooler things than me. So like...
He'd wear like vans and got me into first like Houdini and UTFO and Run DMC and stuff like that. And soon after that, so I would go and stay with them on the weekends or two weekends a month or whatever. After that, he just started like maybe was into like Sex Pistols and Dead Kennedys and all that stuff. And eventually my mom told me she was moving to Texas and Excuse me. And I think kind of out of spite, we moved a lot. She was raising three kids. She was like a dental assistant and just jobs.
We didn't have any money. So she was moving a lot wherever she'd work. And as a kid, you fucking make friends and then you're moving. I mean, we're probably only moving like 20 minutes, but when you're like... in fifth grade, that's everything to you. So I think she dropped on me. We're moving to Texas. She had met a guy and, uh, kind of crazy. She went to her high school reunion and re met some dudes she knew and they started dating or whatever. And then he lived in Houston.
So she's like, we're moving to Texas. And I was like, I'm moving in with my dad. So that's what I did. And, uh, So then I'm living with my – I'm just going to call him my brother because I don't really consider him my stepbrother, but to tell the story. So I move in with them, and he's into all this punk stuff. I mean, I'm like – it's funny, too, because he's younger than me. He's four months younger than me. Damn, pulling rank.
Yeah, and I'm kind of just also just like trying to figure my life out and fit in kind of, so – I never fully got into the punk thing. Like he would play the shit and like, it was kind of cool. I could tell the aggressiveness of it, but the whole punk look and anarchy and stuff, I just never clicked with me. Do you think part of that was cause like that was his? No, I don't, I don't think so. Cause I was fully open to, to partaking, rapping and, you know, clothes style and stuff like that.
But, um, But for some reason, I did like Social Distortion. I was into Mommy's Little Monster. I still do. Their older stuff. I never really followed up with them. You didn't take the ride. I didn't take the ride. It's weird. I might be wrong, but I think people love that band. I hear a lot of people say they hate them. And I'm like, Mommy's Little Monster
is a perfect record to me. It's because they're disliking the fan base, right?
Yeah.
Maybe. One time
I was... He was like the Bruce Springsteen of Orange County. I was in Tustin and I saw some little coffee. No, it was a Mexican restaurant. And Mike Ness was in there. It was kind of cool. He was just chilling by himself. Did you approach him? No, no, no. I met him once with Toby from H2O. We did these... There's this big festival tour in Australia called Soundwave. Crazy bands. We did it one year with Iron Maiden, which was fucking cool. Jesus.
So Social Distortion was on, and I guess Toby knows him, so he introduced me to him. But it was just like a very like, hey, what's up? So back to the mean streets of Buffalo when I was young. So Social Distortion, for some reason, I really liked him. And... So out of the punk stuff, I really liked Group Sex 2, Circle Jerks. I think that's a great record. And I'll tell the story like this. I don't know if this is exactly true.
One night, me and my brother came home, and my dad was like, oh, I saw something that was on TV, and I taped it for you on the VCR, and it was Another State of Mind. So we watched that probably 50 times, and I was immediately struck by... Minor Threat. Okay, so now I'm seeing shaved heads. These guys are trying to be a little... How small
is that room they're jamming in?
It's so rad. So rad. And I just got a vibe off Minor Threat that was different than the more punk stuff. And I'll say again, too, the next day I went out... This is all like could be true, could not be true. The next day I went out to the mall and bought the Minor Threat record with the... I think it's Ian's brother on the cover. Yeah. I'm not the hugest minor threat person. Well, if you get it on vinyl, it's the first two 7-inches. Right. If it's a CD, then it's everything. Right.
I got it on vinyl. Okay. And so I bought that, and I was in on that, and... That was it. And Larry Ransom, a friend of mine who sang in a Buffalo band called Envy, and he worked at Rev and stuff, he saw me. He told me later when we became friends, he saw me buying that record, which is kind of crazy. That is wild. Does he still live here? No, he lives in Texas now. Oh, okay. Austin, I think. It's funny. He hit me up the other day. So that label, Safe Inside, put out the Slugfest thing on vinyl.
I think CD2 maybe. I can't remember. And then Terror just recently put out our demo on cassette because we realized we never put it out on cassette. Yeah, it came out CD-R and then 7-inch. And he saw that and hit me up and said, I want to put this Slugfest thing out on cassette. And I was like, okay. I don't care. Cool. Just send me one. Yeah, so that was it.
Yeah, so from Minor Threat, then what grabs you?
Yeah.
Do you jump right into the ref stuff? Yes, but I'm going to backtrack a little bit. Let's backtrack even more. I'm curious about you being like jockey. Okay. Because you do have a little bit of a temper. So how were you as a jock? It seems like that would be wild. I mean, I grew up like my dad was kind of a jock, and he would play tennis and shit and throw the fucking tennis racket and yell and get kicked off a softball team.
Yeah. Like, was that bad for your rage? I don't think I had a temper back then, to be honest. I'm trying to think. I used to play organized sports and stuff with my friends, and the memory is all positive. I was a nice, happy Scott. And recently, like maybe five years ago, I played on an organized kickball team. Okay. And... I was very intense. Some of the people on the team didn't care, and I would get bummed. It wasn't really my team, though, and I didn't know the people too well.
I was brought into it, and the main person on the team, he was very... competitive also so the two of us were like really competitive and then there's people that are always like talking in the outfield and fucking up and I'd be like what the fuck am I doing here so maybe if I had organized sports in my life now I'd have a little more rage I hope not I don't want that so um but yeah I mean I love sports I still do I don't keep up like I used to um I would say now probably boxing's my favorite
sport um I also, I don't love baseball, but I'll go to Dodgers games because they're so cheap and I'll buy the cheapest tickets and just try to sit away from people and just more to like be there, sit in the outfield, talk to whoever I'm with, you know, have some peanuts. But excuse me, I love hockey. I love college basketball. So fully, full jocked out. But the funny thing is like first year of high school, I played a bunch of sports.
And then when I started going to shows and starting bands, it's just like, I Never again.
It's hard once you get into hardcore to have a set schedule, especially if you're not in New York or L.A., right? Because the bands are coming through on Tuesday night, Thursday night. You have practice or some shit. You're going to miss them. Right.
Once I got into hardcore, my whole everything revolved around trying to go to shows, trying to do bands. All my friends went from... kids I knew in school to just hardcore kids. Uh, this sounds unhealthy. Um, and, uh,
it's a niche way to live. Yeah. But it's cool. Right. I mean, you're, you're reaching out for a little bit of stability and then maybe that's that. And I
went to a high school that was, let's say, um, above, uh, like, I don't want to say rich kids, but well off kids. And, um, I could get along with everyone because I smoked weed, so I could get along with the stoner kids and I drank and stuff. But I also had the jock side of me, but I also could hang out with all the weird people. So I kind of got along with everyone, and these normal people would be like, what does judge mean? What are those hammers?
And a couple of them, I actually would come and see Slugfest and kind of like, Yeah. And I think a big thing in my high school was when Metallica won, that song came out, the masses got a taste of real heavy music, and they were kind of into it. So some people were kind of checking out certain things, but it never really clicked. It never stuck with them. But at least they were open-minded enough.
You were in hardcore for years, though, before you started your first band. Not too long. Slugfest demo in 92? Yeah. So that's still a few years.
We, we played our first show with judge. So I want to say maybe 90. Okay. So yeah, let's say three years, but the first band, you know, about, you don't know about the bands. Um, so yeah, like even, even before me and my brother always had like, I hate to say this, but like punk bands. Sure. And like, uh, I played drums, and he always played strings and stuff. So we had a band called Lost Cause.
We had a first band called The No Names, which was like two ends overlapping with a swish through the middle. It was very punk. And we would play maybe a couple parties or someone's basement, and I think we did a battle of bands. And there was a real punk band from Buffalo called Manic Depression. Mm-hmm. This would be stuff that my memory is really bad, but my brother has golden memory. I have zero memory. But they were like a punk band, and I know some people know who they are and stuff.
They were like straight, crazy mohawk stuff. I want to say they – and it's really weird. They had a straight-edge drummer named Tim Schmoyer who also went up front at one point. And maybe he moved to being up front or something like that. And I want to say, I don't know if I was ever in the band, but I think I played a show or two with them. And there's an amazing band from Buffalo called Against All Hope, which is really ahead of their time, melodic.
They love Dag Nasty and stuff, but they were from the Buffalo scene, so it had kind of like a... Dag Nasty with a double bass, if that makes sense. They were
on the
Buffalo Comp 7-inch, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Larry put that out, actually. With Envy. Yeah, yeah. Great band, and I played drums in that band for a little... I'm not a very good drummer, but I played drums in a couple bands with my brother playing bass, so... Lost No Names, I want to say, was the first band I ever played a show in, which could have been a battle of the bands. Then Lost Cause, kind of like a more punker type thing. Then I'm going to go Slugfest. And whose idea is Slugfest?
Slugfest starts with me and my brother going to the River Rock Cafe, which is like my CBGB's, the place when I think of my... heyday of finding hard courts, the place every band played. I saw Rest in Peace is there. I'm going to try to come up with some really cool ones. I saw Turning Point there, Judge a couple times, Sick of It All a bunch of times, Social Distortion played there. So many bands. Describe the club. Is it like a 300
cap then? 400 cap?
I'm going to say, knowing what I know now... Legally, it's just a bar. It's like an old shitty Buffalo house on the corner of two kind of major streets in a place called Riverside or maybe Black Rock. And it's just an old house that you walk in the door and straight into a bar, which funny enough is – The first time I ever went there was like maybe even 86 to see the Dead Milkman. And they played in the bar. I don't know if they had the main room yet. But so this was a tiny show.
And that might have been the first show I went to, Dead Milkman maybe. But so then if you made a right, then there's stages to the back. And I'm going to say legally – Like I feel like there were shows with 500 people there, but it was probably 220 packed illegally. So I'm going to say it's a, with the bar, maybe a 200 cap room. I could be wrong. And how big was the stage? Just the right, just the right hardcore. The 30 inch stage, the perfect stage. And there was a pole.
So people would use the pole to their advantage. But yeah, It was amazing. So we, we would go there all the time as much as we could. You know, this is still, neither of us had a car, neither of us had our license. So it was get arrived from someone, take the bus somehow. Cause we're living in the suburbs. Uh, luckily my dad drove by there on his way to work. So sometimes he would drop us off on the highway and we'd walk down.
Um, So we'd go there all the time and the guy that – I think his dad owned it. His name was John and he was like the sound guy and did everything. So we'd be there all the time. Like we'd go to any show we knew about and I don't know. I want to say maybe we asked him if he knew anyone that wanted to start a band or I don't know. But basically we started the band with him. So we're – 15, 16, 7, I don't know. And he's like a man.
And if anyone finds the earliest lineups of Slugfest on video, it's bizarre because it's me, young as shit, my brother, young as shit. We had this dude from our high school, just like this metal guy that's kind of weird, really weird, but really cool guy. And then this man on drums who owns this club, and this is why our first show was judged, because he could put us on whatever we wanted. It was a brilliant move. It wasn't because we were so good. It was because we had the hookup.
And we got to practice there, which was really cool. Brilliant move. And he brought his friend in the band, whose name is literally Fuck Em, like Fuck Em All. Yeah. And he used to wear this shirt that said Fuck Em, and he's like this big... big gut, long hair dude. So that's the earliest Slugfest. I think we have a demo called Build Up, I think is the demo, and those two played on that.
So the very first Slugfest demo they were on, we recorded it there, probably through the soundboard at the River Rock. And who's songwriting? Your brother? Fucking
anyone who could,
I guess. I don't know. I don't know.
Did the first song sound like Slugfest? Man, I got to say, they're probably pretty
bad. I don't know. But is it like that chuggy 90s? Yeah, I mean, everything, and I don't want to say everything, but every band I've done out of Buffalo, and the foundation of Buffalo is like Zero Tolerance, who was very crossover, very like Chromags, Biohazard, kind of.
So that... all the i keep saying all but a lot of buffalo was based around and like snap case too like that was the next band that really came out of buffalo that people would know um and they kind of have that sound too but they did a little more uh happy a little more happy the zero tolerance rumor are you going to see them who snap case shit no
california takeover no I missed the first one by a year, so I have no nostalgia.
I would definitely go if I
could, but I can't. It's going to be great. It's sold out anyway.
I can't go. We're playing Santa Cruz the night they're in San Francisco, so kind of a bummer. It'll be wild. Yeah, I think so. So, yeah, the style was take the Slugfest 7-inch, if you know it, and – Make it sound terrible and make it less good, but the style never really changed.
Yeah. Where did the rumor come from about the zero tolerance 7-inch that there was a drum machine? Did you ever hear that? I did hear that. And
it's not true, obviously, right? I don't think so. Yeah. That's
weird. I
heard
that for
years
and years.
I feel really bad when... but I tell people that zero tolerance is this amazing band because a seven inch is not that good. It's, it's, it's not representative of them. Not at all. They have a cassette called fuel of fire and there's a, there's two, I'll say side a probably is fuel the fire and, um, whatever the other song is. Um, The B-side is three songs, and those three songs were also recorded with a fourth song. Those two sides of the tape are recorded separately.
The B-side is A Minute to Pray. I don't know why I'm trying to name all the songs. And that's the shit. Yes. And it's after the 7-inch? It's what they did after the 7-inch, and before they put the tape out, they – I had it. They played it on a radio show and I taped it. They put those four songs out to the world, but they went back for the tape and put more leads. They were going more biohazard. So there's a version of it that's less metal, but they're still crossover-ish.
I'm getting chills thinking about it. They're so fucking good live. They were so cool. I worshipped them. I still do.
Yeah, I worked with a guy at Hopeless in like 98, and he booked a bunch of Buffalo shows back in the day. His name was Brian Foster. Oh,
that's like Brian Foyster. Brian Foyster. Yeah, he brought everyone to Buffalo. Yeah, and he would sing the praises of Serotonin. I want to say he was like their manager, maybe.
He was like their... business mind I'm guessing but he's the guy that booked every show the River Rock he booked all those shows but he also like once in a while like the Cro-Mags if they would come to Buffalo they'd play somewhere bigger the Bad Brains came they'd play somewhere bigger and he did all that stuff too so he uh I don't care about t-shirts, but I could imagine his t-shirt collection is amazing if he kept it.
He gave me a bunch of original flyers back then. So if he's hanging on to flyers, he's hanging on to shirts. And they were the nice, thick cardstock, colored. That
was so rad. There's this... Instagram page, Buffalo show flyers or Buffalo shows maybe. And not so much now. Cause I think they got them all. But like when it came out, he would just post these flyers. I'd be like, Oh my God, I remember that show. That was so amazing. Or some like, Oh my God, that this is like one of my biggest regrets in life. Or I can't, it can't be a regret. I lived in a place called Amherst touching Williamsville and, These are the suburbs of Buffalo.
There's a flyer and a video of Warzone playing a floor show right where I live. I could have walked to it on my bike. And it's like I maybe was into hardcore. But at that time, you just know what you know. You see a flyer. And if you miss it, you miss it. And this show wasn't at the River Rock. I don't know why. It was at some random hall out where I lived. I missed it. And it's such a cool video. If anyone sees it, it's on a floor in Buffalo.
I think Siv's with Warzone as a roadie, and he's moshing, and Rabies is obviously in the crowd because there's no stage at all. So it's a
fucking
bummer. Yeah, I never got to see them. The one time I would have been able to see them, they were going to play Santa Barbara at the spot called the Underground. It got shut down. The whole show got canceled before they played. Who knows why? And then... I couldn't drive yet to the showcase. Yeah. And I don't know how many times they came out here. I don't think that much. They did something with Strife and the Business, right? I think that was a full trip. That might have been that.
That might have been that in 96. So who knows? Did you ever see Campbell Corpse? Yeah, back then and now. Yeah. You didn't go into that at all, though? What was that like, seeing Campbell Corpse in, like,
what, 1991? That was a big thing in Buffalo that there was – There was a big – so Zero Tolerance is definitely trying to get into that metal world and I guess succeeding in Buffalo for sure because I think they could do whatever they wanted. So I would see like – I can think of Slapshot with maybe Death and like – there was a show called Gathering of the Tribes I think which was like – I don't know. I'll mess these up. Me and my brother would go to death metal shows too.
I saw Deicide in 1990 at the River Rock in a tiny place. There was a club that opened up in maybe 91, 92 called the Sky Room. It was in South Buffalo. It was a proper nightclub. They would do lots of death metal shows. I would I would go see these things and it was, for me, it was somewhere to go and something to do because I didn't really care about anything else besides music, but I never really, I still like, I could name the death metal or the, even the metal stuff that I listened to.
I'm not like a big punk guy. I'm not like a big metal guy. Like I can, I love Slayer. They're fucking amazing. Uh, like several tour arise. I love, um, some old Metallica stuff I love and like, Behemoth, I really like. We did a Sound of the Underground tour with them, and they were super cool, and they're just so heavy, and their vibe is so crazy. I couldn't avoid that. A lot of the metal stuff, like Jordan and Tara, loves obituary, so I'll once a year try. It's a lot of the vocals.
A lot of the music does it for me, but the... If the vocals are too high or too weird or something, it just doesn't do it for me. Yeah. Certain things, like Sepultura Rise, it's so heavy. Yeah. And those vocals are kind of hardcore-y. Yeah. And when they slowed down, the stuff after that, it kind of lost me. I kind of got that tribal new wave vibe. Except Bruce.
The mosh part is ridiculous. On the song? Lost me. The song itself. Lost me. Dude. anyway so slugfest is playing
yes
you getting fans like are you drawing 40 year buddies uh every time you play
yeah i mean buffalo was had a great scene so there was uh i mean slugfest was in an era where shows were all like i don't want to say all shows but like It seemed like every show, in my memory, going to every show was kind of full, but that only means 100 to 200 people. That's solid, though. That's so solid. They're booked in the right club, so it's full. I mean, Slugfest, we never toured, but we played Syracuse, which was amazing. I don't want to say better scene than Buffalo, but maybe bigger.
You know, we played Rochester. We played a great show in Detroit with Earth Crisis before Firestorm was out and Chokehold. So that's, like, really cool. You're playing, like, the whole Great Lakes. Right. Just around a couple hours from Buffalo. And I'm sure we had some crappy shows. Yeah. I remember we played with Slapshot once at the Scrapyard. But still, I mean, Slapshot in Buffalo in 92, there's probably 200 people there.
Yeah.
But, you know... Again, Larry's coming up so much on this. He sent me this flyer recently of this weird show Slugfest played at the place called the Sky Room, which was way too big for us to play. And it was like the flyer looked like it was like we were playing a drink special night. It was like a bar flyer with some band I never heard of. I don't remember the show, but I was like, what the fuck is this? So I think at that time, anyone asked us to play, we're just playing.
So But yeah, we had a solid group of friends too. Against All Hope is definitely tight with us. A band called Discontent we were tight with. And these were people we'd all go to. It sounds funny because if someone asked me this now, I'd just laugh. But we'd go watch their practices. Sure. We'd be in the room at their
practices. That's normal.
Could you imagine now? No, no, no, no. I don't even want to practice myself. Yeah, we'd tear it. Never practiced. Never, ever, ever. So, yeah. And like after we'd go to Denny's and drink like 20 cups of coffee and just talk about whatever. Of course, girls kind of mattered, but not like you said that you want to. Go to a show or go hang out with the most beautiful girl in the world. I'm like, the show, obviously, you know, so girls didn't really matter.
It was just bands, bands, shows, shows, hang, hang. Yeah. Did you record the Slugfest Buried Alive 7-Inch in a studio? Yeah, we went to the studio Zero Tolerance went to. That's why we went there and I got to be honest, somehow, some way it came out really good. Like it still sounds good. We weren't as well at a certain point. We got Tim Redman on drums and he's the drummer still in Snapcase. And we got him in the band and he's a really good drummer. And maybe that elevated the band.
But I would say we weren't as good as the seven inch was. Somehow it just worked out. Like the mix sounds good. The vocals sound good. Everything sounds good on it. So we got lucky on that one.
Well, you're in the studio. They're supposed to make you sound better.
Right. Right. That's the point of the studio. We could. Some things don't work that way. If you're really bad, you can't pull it off. But I always think like. Well, back then. Now you can do anything. Yeah, you don't even have to play. I think any band, if you have a good drummer, you're okay. If you have a bad drummer, you're in trouble. I would agree. I would agree. So yeah, but we broke up before the record came out.
Oh.
Yeah, kind of sucked. Who's holding the bag on that one? Who paid for it? Chris Logan of Chokehold, the singer of Chokehold. Him and the guitarist, they did a label called Structure Records. I think they put out... A cassette sampler, the Slugfest 7-inch, and the Bloodlet 7-inch, so kind of cool. You got stuck holding 500 Slugfest 7-inches? I think he probably got rid of them still, but... I mean, he probably pressed $1,000. Maybe it took a while.
But that was when you had those distros and mail orders. Any ad I saw where it looked like the dude had short hair and jumped, just send him $3 and see what came in the mail. I know, $3 postpaid.
How about that? How awesome is that? Does the spare start right after? How long did you take off?
Probably not long. Did you
fade away in that gap? You played drums in another band?
Yeah, Fade Away was already going, and Fade Away was already going because Slugfest and Fade Away played, and they were all close friends. Joe Garlip, who was also in Despair, was in Fade Away before Despair started. I think everything I'm saying is right, but it could be off.
You just
do a split 7-inch,
right?
Who are you talking about? Fade Away has... a demo or two without me with a better drummer and they're, they're really good. Um, we, when I joined the band, we do the split seven inch with this band called, uh, I didn't write it down. Uh, they're like a pop poppy band from Canada, two line, two line filler. Okay. Okay. I think.
Um, and then the, finally we did a, um, cd only release on conquer the world who's a label from detroit that did the chokehold record and empathy and kind of cool label at the time um we did like a ep on cd only
yeah
and um lost the history though yeah it's pretty good though the stuff without me is better i would say And the band on that last record kind of experimented a little bit more, which usually doesn't work so great. So in my opinion, it's not the best stuff, but it's probably the best recording. And honestly, I haven't listened to this shit in so long.
Yeah. So To Despair, this is a band you do for a little while. It's like a nice chunk of time, right? Yes. I believe the record's called Four Years. So you were around for four years? Yes. The Burt record? I figured it out,
yes.
I was looking for a title, and
I don't know how I came up with that brilliant idea.
Four Years of Decay is what you called it?
Something
like that, yeah. Yeah, that's a good title. And it's cool. I mean, it's so sick that Burt's putting out records.
Yeah, I mean, he just hit me up. I knew him from San Diego, and he just hit me up, and I think he asked about the Despair thing. And to be honest, Despair is my least favorite band that I was in, like main bands. um but he wanted to do it and i'm i thought it was a cool idea because that stuff's long out of press and just sitting there and i think a lot of that stuff has never been on vinyl the truskill stuff there was some stuff
some cd stuff that didn't
yeah
the initial record maybe no that one's yeah that one's a buried alive plus other tracks yeah so we don't gotta go in that hard yeah so uh but why was it your least favorite and you were in the band for four years like do you just have better musically Yeah? Yeah. It's a little more... It's very similar to Slugfest, though. It's just a little more honed in. Slugfest, you go a little... You're dipping your toes in a little bit of melodic parts, I guess, before you go full 90s chuggy.
And Despair is... I mean, Despair sounds like 90s hardcore. If I had to play someone, what is your average... What is your average... 90s band sound like that would be that don't you think it's in there there's a lot of bands that sounded like that
what is uh one king down is too late 90s late 90s i guess that's what i think of when i think of the 90s yeah um i don't know maybe the problem with despair is we put out a lot of if we took the best songs from each release and had one full length that might be good but there's There's a lot. Honestly, though, I might just be saying this because I haven't listened to it in so long. I know that last 7-Inch we did, the Kill 7-Inch, it's pretty good. That song's pretty good.
That's when we had Hydro from Turmoil. in the band at the very end. I don't even know if he was in the band. Did he help write? He wrote that end riff on that. That's why if you think about it, it's kind of... The
best riff is like the first riff on one of the songs.
I'm trying to remember. I can't remember. Stone Face has got a cool opening riff. I mean, but to be fair to the band, that was the first time I toured. We played a lot. We had records out. You did Full U.S., right? I met... You did with Hatebreed. Yeah, I was sick as fuck and didn't make it. You played The Barn. Yeah, we played the barn and the bomb shelter in Oakland. Yeah, there might have been maybe one. I think we did the Showcase Theater in San Diego, I think.
Yeah, that was cool. That was a cool club. Yeah, honestly, I can't remember. No, that was one of those shows when you're talking about Warzone playing near you and you're not going. I remember some shows that I really regret missing, and that was one of them, of course. Because, I mean... Hatebreed is Hatebreed.
I got to watch Hatebreed just, let's say, a month straight. Some of the shows were 30 kids, but you could see the 30 kids worshipped their demo. Maybe Under the Knife was out. That was really cool. Me and Jamie, I don't know how it happened, but me and him just booked a tour together and did five weeks.
The L.A. show... barn show you're talking about tony victory flew out signed hate breed and asked despair to do a seven inch and we agreed and we went home and broke up that's wild that's kind of how buried alive was instantly on victory
yeah and coming out of despair um and doing buried alive like how was that because because buried alive rules right were you like Hyped right away? Because you're
not writing any songs. I was the opposite. I'm done. No more bands. Really? Slugfest broke up because the drummer quit to be in Snapcase. So I was burnt on that and then Snapcase goes on to be the huge and I'm fucking jealous and bitter. But were you? Because
they didn't sound like you ever wanted to
sound,
did
they? Nah, I was just jealous. All I cared about was Hardcore and they were the biggest band and they quote unquote, stole my drummer and ruined my band. So I was fucking bitter. Yeah. Oh yeah.
But they're good. It's a full different sound. I don't know. Like, I mean, I guess you're the biggest man in hardcore, but it's like, I don't know. It's never a sound that, that resonated with me. I, I
loved their first band called solid state. I loved them. I liked the first snap case seven inch and then they lost me. because they sold my drummer, so I probably forced myself not to like it. Everyone I know loves Snapcase. Part of me, it's definitely not my style, but I probably would have loved it. But, I mean, to be fair, this is such old stuff, and we could do a whole podcast on this, but we were partying. We partied a lot. Despair. Don't. Slugfest. Oh, Slugfest.
We smoked weed all the time, drank all the time, and the drummer was... better musician and he was completely straight edge and he was super smart and uh i don't know how it went down but the biggest band in buffalo asked him to join them and they're all straight edge and yeah like i don't blame him now but the way i went down was kind of shitty like uh i found out from the guitarist's snap case he was me and him were friends and talking on the phone he's like yeah things are working out great
with tim and i'm like What does that mean? He's like, he's in snap case now. And I'm like, what the fuck? I mean, now it's just, who cares? Like, you know, I was actually just like, uh, direct messaging with Daryl, the singer snap case, trying to, trying to figure out if like we could meet up after the show that like all have dinner. Cause I'm not going to see them or earth crisis or strife. So it's not going to work, but it's all water way under the bridge. But at the time I was pissed.
So then despair starts. I mean, another thing, too, is that the Slugfest 7-inch came out, and it was good, and people liked it, and we're getting asked to play shows, but we just broke up, and Snap Cases comes back from Europe, and they're like, yeah, people love the Slugfest 7-inch. But why not just replace the drummer? That's a really good question. You just don't even think about it. It just ended. It's one of those. Yeah. It's to be young. Despair, kind of the same thing.
We do that Haybreed tour. We get asked to be on Victory. We come home from the tour and two dudes quit. And I'm just like, fuck.
Yeah. Fuck
this shit. Was that the only tour? No, we, Despair did a, we toured, we did a Brothers Keeper Harvest Despair tour that was like Midwest and East Coast. We did a tour with Snapcase, so I didn't hate them that much. I think they probably gave us a pity, a pity tour to pay me back. We did a tour with them. 4US? No, that was, that was a shorter, I would say 10 days total guess. We did a tour with Chokehold, most East Coast stuff, so we did a, We went to Europe twice. Awesome. Once or twice.
I think twice. Buried Alive went once. So, yeah. But the only time out west was the Hatebreed. We must have toured with Turmoil, too, because that was like our go-to band. Yeah. The only
time out west, though, was the Hatebreed.
Yes, I think so. I think so.
Okay, so despair breaks up and you don't want to do anything. So who sucks you into Buried Alive? Despair
breaks up. My girlfriend that I'm living with dumps me. She dumps me because I'm too into hardcore. All I care about is my band. But your band's done. It's a perfect time. I want to say it was all in the same week. That's a confusing message that she's sending. Well, she might have even dumped me on the tour and moved out. And I came home to an empty house. The band broke up. I got the sick-ass record deal from Tony Brummel that's going in the garbage. So I'm bummed. And I'm broke.
And I'm living in this apartment by myself. And I just remember, like, I was kind of being, like, bummed. Like, I don't want to say depressed. That sounds kind of extreme. But so Buried Alive starts, and it's the original drummer of Despair, Jesse Buried. And he had quit Despair, so I kind of had a grudge against him. So obviously I'm just bummed on people that quit bands. So they start – this is going to sound funny again – and I would go to their practice.
Because I started hanging out with Matt, the guitarist, a lot. So he was like my friend, and we would drink beer together and whatever, smoke weed. So I'm hanging out with him. So I was coming to the practice and they were asking me, be in the band, be in the band. And I'm just like, no, no, no, I don't want to do it. And honestly, the sound is a little bit more metal slash noisy than I'm used to. Yeah. But eventually they broke me down because the songs were so fucking good.
I was just like, this shit is... And the drummer is so good. But I didn't want to be in a band with them. But eventually I just agreed to do it and it started.
Yeah, it's a very honed in sound. It's definitely living in a post-satisfaction world.
Yeah, it was like satisfaction with
noisy shit, you know? Yeah. But very honed in. Like... All the songs are under two minutes. Maybe if
Turmoil fucked Hatebreed and had a baby. That's kind
of what it is. Yeah, that's pretty good. I think it's interesting, though, because do you agree that Satisfaction is the biggest game changer or no?
Like in all of hardcore?
Yeah, like in my lifetime.
I'd have to think about it, but it's definitely 100%. changed everything in hardcore but I mean there's other ones too like the Integrity would be a huge game changer. Yeah. Earth Crisis. Both before my time can't speak on them. So
yeah
I mean they've got to be the biggest hardcore band in
general. Well I just think about Satisfaction the LP itself like before that you have this whole sound of you know hardcore sounds like Despair or Strife or these bands and a lot of it is about like these tempo changes but they're like groovier tempo changes and you're like doing a build up and a sing along and after Hatebreed everything's a mosh and it's like the urgency to get to the mosh part
I remember the first time I fucking heard Hatebreed I was uh Despair was playing in Josh Grabell the guy that did Trushkill's Basement and uh he used to do shows in his basement and Jamie was just there and he gave me a tape I think he gave it to me and maybe I bought it but um And I drove up in my girlfriend at the time's car, and I remember on the way home, I popped it in. And this is the three-song demo, and I probably listened to it 12 times in a row.
Because all I cared about then was moshing. That's all I did. I went to every show and moshed. I must have been in the greatest shape of my life because all I would do was mosh, mosh, mosh, every band. Yeah. It's crazy to think about those times. I would never even consider what a backstage is. Why would you go backstage? The show is happening. I would never consider what a guest list was. None of these things that even were in my brain. It was go to the show, pay... Ten dollars.
Watch every fucking band. Talk to every fucking person. Look at every fucking piece of merch. Buy every record you can. And that's what the show was to me. Now it's like we get to the club. Is there anywhere for me to go backstage or am I going to sit in the van? Like literally, what the fuck? But so he gave me the tape or whatever. And I probably listened to it 12 times in a row and was like, I never listen.
heard anything so heavy and his voice was so heavy and the tuning was so heavy and it was the coolest fucking thing in the world yeah so right there i guess it does describe the ultimate game change
yeah what let's talk about some more then because so earth crisis for sure how do you think that they changed let's go back to
earth to
Integrity
first. Yeah, yeah. So for me, in my head, a lot of stuff is youth crew. GB's huge, Youth Today, all that stuff, and I love it. Turning Point, I fucking love. Even the New Age stuff, Outspoken, I love all that stuff. And then this band from Cleveland comes along, and it's just the first seven. The look of it, the layout, it's evil, and the lettering is evil, and you're looking at...
Break down the walls, and then you're looking at the Integrity 7-inch and the sound and the lyrics are talking about fighting people and putting chains around people's throats. I mean, being from Buffalo, that's three hours from Cleveland, so I would see Integrity all the time. And every time they came to Buffalo, one time Dwit looks like a skater.
Well, first he looks like a straight-edge kid, then he looks like a skater, then he looks like fucking a biker, and then he looks like he had a different look every time in your list. Yeah. And like, you're literally like, he's probably got like 10 pounds on me and like two years on me. But I'm like, if I had to fight this guy, he would eat me. He would, he would like, he's the devil. Yeah. Like, and just that the sound too, is just so metal.
And like, just the whole Cleveland thing being close to Buffalo, you'd see all this, but like, and then ringworm come and you hear the ringworm demo and you're like, this is even more metal. This is even more fucking satanic. So like, I think that was a big game change. And then earth crisis, like, so maybe not even sound wise, but message wise, they just shifted the whole scene. And like, this is at a time too, when I'm listening to like split lip and Elliot and like get up kids.
Like it was not weird. Like, Despair played with split lip. That was not weird. We would play fest and it would be, the order would be like, blah, blah, blah, despair, get up kids, converge. Like it was all, these shows were all like, and I listened to all of that and I still love all that. Emo, post hardcore stuff. I love it. But then like Earth Crisis came along and it was just the militants and the insanity and like just the third live show. Like, That was a game change, too, I think.
Just how serious they took it. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And, of course, Haybreed. They get big-upped on this pod a lot just because they were fucking real and right. Oh, yeah. And I was never a huge fan. I love Firestorm. But beyond that, not a huge fan. But just the fact that, like, they got so much shit for the stuff they believed in. And they're still all straight-edge vegan. Exactly. It's fucking crazy.
fucking awesome they were right going to see it's weird how like Syracuse became this mecca which Syracuse is well it's two hours from me so I would go to shows there all the time this is when I don't get kids now like we announce a tour and people are like you're not coming to Cincinnati we're in Dayton get in your fucking car and have that road the road trip is the back that's one of the pillars the
road trip I know it's when you bond and listen to music I know But everyone has Spotify now. So there's no learning about a new band because everyone brings a tape and plays a tape. You heard this before? You heard this before? You heard this before? Everyone has
everything. I can remember that show I talked about in Detroit. It was Slugfest, Chokehold, Earth Crisis. Like a pack of 20 all varsity jackets, Chicago straight edge kids all rolled into the show. This is my first time watching.
interacting with chicago hardcore and it's because i took a road trip in between buffalo and chicago they drove we drove and it's just like i would go to shows everywhere so sarah just what i was getting at is like seeing seeing earth crisis in syracuse in their like heyday was un-fucking-believable how many kids Have you ever been there, the Lost Horizon? No. Okay, it's a club that's been around for fucking forever. It's pretty big, actually. It's kind of like a smaller nightclub.
I would say a good show packed 500 kids. They sell it out, so you don't really know how many kids. You can't move, and every kid there is a hardcore kid from head to toe and is there to go the fuck off and sing every word. It's just fucking amazing.
Yeah, the Path of Resistance LP when it came out was awesome, too.
We played, I think, their first show. How many did they do? A New Year's show. I mean, they even went to Europe
at one point. There was a shit ton of bands in the 90s that went to Europe and never came to fucking California. Crazy, huh? Yeah, I mean, I never saw Slapshot until like two years
ago. They came to Buffalo a lot. Some of the Slapshot shows, if you ask me... What were the most dangerous shows you ever saw? Slapshot in the, like, 1990 in Buffalo. Like, a lot of scary people there. You're just a crazy mix of everyone, huh? Yeah. Yes. I can just remember certain things that are just bad. Just bad things. But you're in the mix. You're not a wallflower. Early on... Like those shows in the late 80s, I'm kind of a spectator.
Maybe like a local show, like Solid State, the early Snapcase show. Then the pit is mine. But when it's mean people, I'm kind of like too young to dare. Yeah, fair enough. I mean, early 90s, that's all I did. Pit, pit, pit, pit, pit, pit. Dive. Dive.
So... Any other game changes you think of?
Those three. I'd say No Warning, Ill Blood's kind of game-changey.
Yeah?
Kind of like really stuck the... When Hardcore was going a little, 18 Visions and all that, No Warning kind of came and just put the whole... From even the artwork, and they kind of had that attitude. I don't know where those little Canadians got that attitude, but they had it. And, dude, that Illblood is, even their first 7-inch, god damn, is so good.
Yeah, the riff on the intro type thing. So fucking good. But, I don't know, Hold It Down comes out the same year, right?
I mean, yeah, I mean, Madball. I mean, I kind of just, everything that comes out in New York is just so special. To me, it can't be too much of a game change, because it's just cycling of great band after great band after great record after great record. Maybe H2O is a little game change because that's a different spin on things.
Yeah, I think that you could say that. I love that. That first EP.
Holy fuck. I never even got into that stuff, to be honest.
No?
The My
Friends
Will Go For Me Like Family? The first thing I think I heard was that's on the first record, the self-titled album. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's on there. I think that's when I first heard them. Yeah, me too. I mean, when it kicks,
da-da-da-ba. Oh, God. Da-da-da-ba. It's so... heavy for not being heavy right
and then it's like a chunky new york seven seconds yeah tag nasty or something
well one of the sick of all guys wrote it right i don't know i think so and that's why that's why it sounds so gnarly it's like it's one of those dudes taking a stab at something a little more melodic and fucking knocking out of the park i think if i'm wrong i'm wrong um but yeah that record rules so you get into buried life i do they talk you into it
They wrote songs that I couldn't deny. Yeah. And I literally thought, I don't want to say I'm never going to be in a band again, but I just didn't want to do it. I just was over people quitting, and it was really hard with Jesse, who I love. And then I agreed. Yeah. And we did the demo. I think our first show was in Canada, actually. Okay. I think... I was going to say with Every Time I Die, but that's not true. I think we played our first show in Canada.
And by that time, I kind of had a little bit of an idea what I was doing as a front man. And these guys could play their instruments pretty good. And the drummer's so good. He's got this crazy style, but it works. And I had the connection to Victory. And I think I probably told them I have a new band. And I probably sent them the demo. And they said, we want to do a 7-inch. And I was like, cool. And...
Yeah, to be honest, I probably didn't listen to Buried Alive for a good 10, 15 years until we agreed to do that show. And I had to listen to the record to learn it. And I was like, man, this is pretty fucking good. The LP? Yeah.
Yeah, it's really good. It is pretty good. It's really good. I mean, and listening to the first Terror record, I mean, it sounds like Todd molded that Buried Alive record with the carry-on. Yeah, I mean, I think... If we're going to go to terror... I want to do a long, long dive into terror. Because I think that your origin story has been done a fair amount. And I want to do that so we can be completest. But I want to spend... Let's do a part two again later. So we'll stick on Buried Alive here?
Yeah, we'll end on the death of Buried Alive. And then we'll get into Todd's riffs. We can start with starting terror if you want. But I really think that... A lot of times, you know, this happens when I read books about bands, too. You know, like, I'll read a book about Iron Maiden, and it's like, this huge chunk is about, you know, them growing up and doing the demos and then getting started and all this.
And it's like, all the best shit doesn't get talked about that much because they're just kind of on autopilot when they're putting out all the best records, right? Right, right. And same with Terror. It's like, you know, you get to Terror, and it's like, all right, that's kind of a wrap. And 20 years later, here you are, you know? I would like to go into the... The records, because I think that they're really interesting when you look at the discography.
And I think that Terror's a band that gets really, really taken for granted sometimes. I mean, it's hard to say that, well, because most people consider you guys one of the better hardcore bands, best hardcore bands, right? I mean, that's pretty much a fact. I hope so. But also, when you're a band that is around for 18 years like you are now, people do take it for granted.
And, you know, they can kind of skip over the same things like, yeah, like the first two records or, you know, or they like the first two records and then they like the new one or whatever. I kind of don't hold
people – I don't hold that against people because I'm kind of the same way. Yeah, sure. You know? Sure. So I get it. And it is hard to stay relevant. Mm-hmm.
generation of hardcore kid after after and like i'm like 25 years older than you and i how do you relate to me how do i relate to you how are you not looking at me like why is this old guy yelling at me so it's it's a tricky thing but i i think just we just believe in ourselves and know that we're kind of honest and hard working and i i really love terror and Hopefully our live show is still good and stuff like that.
But sometimes it really is hard and there's so many new bands all the time and kids come and go and kids get bored. How much do kids even look at the substance, the lyrics and stuff like that? Because obviously that's what I grew up on. It's just a kind of like, of course we're mindful artists.
that we've been a band for so long and we got to kind of stay in touch and i still like to stay in touch but at the same time you gotta kind of just believe in yourselves and know there's gonna be waves and there's gonna be shows that are great and there's gonna be young bands that come along and get a buzz and you're gonna play before you and have a bigger reaction and you just can't let that shit bother you you gotta be like dude i've been doing this for 18 years i have nothing to complain
about nothing yeah Don't get in that competitive headspace and don't let that shit bother you.
I am really enjoying hardcore right now, though, because I do lean on liking a lot of the heavier stuff. And the mosh is pretty ignorant right now. I'm totally enjoying it, because I didn't like the late 90s. metalcore type stuff so much. There was a little... I don't know. I would put Buried Alive in there, so... No, because you guys were fast. You guys were fast.
Yes. So that changes everything. But it's got those noisy notes. That's kind of... I don't know. I mean, we weren't the same as 18 Visions or Disembodied. Yeah, so I guess we're a little different. But for me, it's a little closer. You think? Yeah.
Yeah. I don't know. I think... The first LP is a pretty straightforward hardcore record. It's branching out a little bit with the noisy parts that you talk about, but it's still a very good straightforward hardcore
record. Where do you put a turmoil process of, if you know that record?
Yeah, I mean, it's probably the best possible metal hardcore record, right? Okay, okay. I mean, I remember when that came out, everyone loved it. I feel like that's kind of where we're trying to be, something like that. But they weren't doing the fast parts either, right? It wasn't...
They had these fast parts that were like...
It wasn't... Right, but it's more rhythmic. Right. It's not the backbone of the band, where Buried Alive was doing the fast thing. I mean, I think it's very close to Hatebreed without doing the suffocation mosh part, you know? Or whatever you want to call it. A little
more technical.
Yeah. But
Buried Alive, you tour how much? Not a ton, but more. More than anything I had done at that point. We went to Europe once... Let me try to think of tours we did. All Out War, Reach the Sky, we did a tour, which was kind of our good friends. The last tour we did was with Death Threat. We did a cool VOD Scarhead Candiria tour. That's pretty fucking cool. Holy shit. Yeah, that's cool. How long was that? That was the full U.S. Oh, wow. I came to showcase here. Is that the one?
Did Candaria not make it out in time? No, they were here because I know Martine saw
them. Okay. Yeah, there was a weird... There was some tour and Candaria didn't make it, so they played a one-off show at this weird rock night somewhere in Hollywood. We went and saw them. It was so awesome. Because the bands playing before, they're all doing... Label showcases. Right. So they got these setups and all that shit. And they just came out and ripped the curtain down. And oh, my god. That drummer. Oh, my god. That drummer's insane. The singer was insane.
I mean, you're a ball of energy. And he was very similar the same way. He did not hold still. He's great. He was insane. And I love that band. I remember the first day of that
tour. I... minute, tiny, no EZAC at the time, just tiny. And they're about to play. And I'm like standing on stage to watch him as a scar head. And he turns to me, takes his watch off in his wallet and gives it to me. It's like, watch these while we play. And I'm like, Oh, I don't want this responsibility at all. Like at all. Cause you don't know him, but you know who he is. Right. I know his reputation. And I'm just like, so now I'm on stage with his wallet.
I'm like, what if he thinks he had a hundred in here and now he doesn't, should I put a hundred in here just in case that happens? And I'm just like, Oh my God. But that, that, that tour is really cool. And they were, they were really, they were great. Scarhead at that time, like, I don't want to dog VOD out at all because I love them too, but they were kind of like, coming down off their biggest moment, and Scarhead was kind of rising up.
They had just put out maybe Kings of Crime or something, and people loved them. The shows were great. Yeah, they came out here
with Earth Crisis, Madball, Scarhead, and Blood for Blood. Jesus Christ. Yeah, it was great. I think I went to every Southern California one. That's a dangerous, dangerous fucking group of people.
I can't just think about the debauchery on that
tour. Yeah. That was great. You know, Candir, a side note on them, they got like one of the thanks lists on one of the CDs is so awesome. It's like a giant paragraph, you know, like those old CDs. You're thanking everyone. In the middle of it, it's like, you know, thanks Bob, Billy, Sam, Jane. If anyone's got a good hookup in New York for mushrooms, contact us. Sam, John, you know, it's all in the middle.
I love the integrity on, I think, on Those Who Fear Tomorrow, the end. Thanks, thanks, thanks. You were all fools for believing in us or something like that because they went from straight edge vegetarian to just full scumbag in one record and just say you were fools for believing in us. Yeah. When would that have been? That's probably 92. Okay.
That's cool. So they were mostly scumbag the whole time. Yeah,
I mean, I think they were probably scumbags the whole time, but they were covering it up with an X for a couple years. Yeah, yeah. You love the whole catalog. They're an NRC band.
Integrity? Yeah.
If you had to ask me right here off the spot, I'd go Those Who Fear Tomorrow was my favorite. Then the first, in contrast, Seven Inch. I love the split with Mayday. Yeah. Honestly, I'm not the hugest systems guy. Some people put that as one. To me, that's a little punkier. It's less metal.
I think it's a little long. No, because it feels like a monotone record. It's more monotone, I think. It did. I missed that one. But it's good. It's got moments.
Humanity's amazing. Humanity's insane. And then they kind of lose me a little bit. What's the one after... The one with Rise,
Opens with Rise.
Yeah, that's kind of where it kind of lost me a little bit there.
Yeah, I love that record too. So that's the Melnick stretch. Right. And then they go do all the... The one on Death Wish, not bad either. To Die For. To Die For. It's pretty good. Yeah, they're doing it with the Jockham brothers, the guys that did the Final Plan
band.
Yeah. Those guys are wild. You ever meet them? Yeah. That's all you got to say, huh? They're a funny bunch. Final Plan, and there was a band, My Luck. Oh, yeah. What was that fool's name? It's all Cleveland. Yeah. But he was living in, like, Texas at the time. Cliff? Was his name Cliff? Cliff, yes. Yeah. So they come out to NARD. Okay, so it was Within Control, I think. And so they come out with us. We do, like, Shake F.A., and then we do, like, Ojai. They just jump on the show.
Or no, that show was booked. And then they got a week off, and then I booked them Ojai again. They fully came out to the West Coast and had two shows booked. They had a beach week. Yeah, they had a beach week and then fucking played one more show. It was hilarious. They're a great group of guys. That's great.
That's how tours should be.
I know. Play a show, have a week off, play another show. If you can afford it, right? But they were staying with Ryan, so it was all good. Do you remember playing Oxnard with Buried Alive?
No.
What's the zone? Laser Star? I mean, kind of. I don't remember it specifically, but I can kind of remember it. You don't remember when we met, Scott. That's fine.
I'm bad at memory stuff. No, no, no. It was with All Out War, I think? Yeah, it was that tour. And Reach This Guy. Yeah, it was like a night off, and someone was like, they got to book a show. And I was like, I'll do it. But no guarantee or nothing because Nard was dead. That was 99. Was there trying to be a guarantee? No, no, no. No one approached me. I think maybe the Burden guy got at me. Like they linked up the Canadian band. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And then like... I want to say Committed was in town, too, from Cleveland. Jason. Jason Collins. See, I can remember some things. Yeah. And then I want to say Committed was on the show, too, from Cleveland. Or Cleveland. It's so fucking random. I was like, okay, everyone's getting paid $20. But it was a fun show.
$20 wasn't bad back then?
No, it was pretty bad. It
was pretty bad. Well, for a last-minute show, fuck it.
Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, whatever. But, yeah, dude. So... At that point, with those three bands, of the three you sang for, what's your favorite at this point? At that point or at this
point right now?
At
that point. Or at this point. I would probably, at that point, probably like to think each band got better. Yeah. So I would probably say Buried Alive.
Yeah.
And it had a weird breakup too, right? You were like three for three at that point? That was a really weird breakup, actually. I... Does that second record that comes out after you're broken up, it gets tossed together? That
second one? Yeah. So we were talking to Matt Henderson about producing our next record. And we went to a studio in New York and just demoed some songs. So that shit is not... It should have never come out. Yeah, we demoed some songs. And when we broke up, Victory just put it out. That's why the layout is just a fucking... live photo. The only thing, Victory told me they were putting it out. I was like, please don't.
They're like, well, you owe us money and we're putting it out to make money back. I said, just at least let me write out the lyrics. There's at least a lyric sheet. That's not a real record. That's just demo stuff. The band broke up weird. I don't want to dog anyone out. I just think the band was changing and I was kind of the same. The last tour we did, we booked a tour with... Death Threat, a full US tour, and they had canceled going to Europe to do it.
And I knew I was going to quit the band on the tour. I knew when I got home, I was quitting. We had kicked out our guitarist, Scott Sprigg, and I didn't want that to happen. So it was just kind of going in a direction I didn't like. I didn't want to fuck over death threats, so we did the tour. The day I got home, I quit. The last show we played, it was in Buffalo. It's a crazy snowstorm, crazy snowstorm. So it was a really small show, probably like 50 people because it was bad.
I quit the next day. I packed up my shit, and I picked up my girlfriend in Chicago, and we moved out. Actually, we moved to Arizona first. Yeah. So I definitely owed an apology to those guys. It didn't go down a good way on me, but the band was in a bad spot. When we were in Europe right before that, the guitars and bass player were having a fist fight in the streets somewhere. It was just not good. And my girlfriend lived in Chicago at the time. I was in Buffalo.
We decided when the band was done, we were going to move here to somewhere in California. We didn't know. And on that tour, my friend Mark, who still lives in Arizona, he's from Buffalo. He got some money from he got hit by a car. So he had some money saved up. He moved out there. I don't want to put his personal life out there, but he moved out there with a girl. Some shit went down and she moved back and he had just bought a brand new house.
So he he said, on your way to like, I didn't know if we're going to move to the Bay or Southern California, San Diego. We just knew, knew we wanted to move to California. So it was like, come and stay with me and figure it out. So we lived with him and then made a couple of trips out here and decided on LA and actually that's not true. Terror decided LA because I, I was done. I was like, I'm never doing another fucking band again. I don't fucking care.
I was in Arizona for, I don't know, six months going to shows, shows. This is like the 18 visions era. Um, I like all those people and stuff, but that wasn't really my vibe of music, and I was just done. Then the terror thing started. Yeah, then you hear Carry On. I do. I hear Carry On and fucking Larry. Dude, I got to text him after this. I went and stayed with Mandel on our trip to L.A. with me and my ex-girlfriend, and he gave me a no-warning message.
carry on tape, lifeless, plagued in the no warning seven. And she's like, I think you're going to really like this. And it was fucking great. Both those fucking bands are great. Yeah. And, uh, Then, so I'm like hearing this new band to me, Carry On, but they definitely weren't new. But to me, that was the first time I heard them and I was loving it. And then I got this phone call from John LaCroix. Hey, I'm starting this. I heard you moved to the West Coast.
I'm starting this band with the guitarist and drummer of Carry On. I'm like, fuck, do you want to be in it? And I'm like,
fuck.
Yeah. Yeah. Let's do Terror next time. All right. But I got a question for you that is a terror question. So you weren't that, like, you were bummed, but you weren't, like, angry about the second Buried Alive. Because Terror does a victory record, like, 10 years after that. Is that something you talked about before Terror did the record with Victory? I mean, we're talking the
Live by the Code record?
Yeah.
don't exactly remember but I was more bummed because like it just wasn't good yeah like it was just like people would people heard it no one knows this isn't when you have Instagram and you can write hey everyone this record is bullshit don't don't support it because it's just, or just know it's just demos. If you want to hear the demos, get it. But this is, we went from a really good recording to this fucking demo that they threw out and people thought that was our second record.
Yeah.
But to be honest, like it just to be completely honest, terror signed a four record contract with century media. We did, uh, the damn, the shame keepers of the faith. And after keepers of the faith, uh, Century Media was great in Europe. That's why we signed to the label. But in the US, they literally did nothing for us. That whole Keepers of the Faith thing was Reaper and Terror really brainstorming and just being really proactive.
So after that, we recorded Live by the Code, but I wouldn't give it to Century Media. I was like, you have to license it to a different label in the US. And they... I think they got so frustrated with me, they sent it to Victory, and Tony was totally into it, and I was just like, anything is going to be better than Century Media. Yeah.
Well, that was a way better answer than I was looking for.
That was really interesting.
Yeah.
And I kind of was like, maybe Tony will really get behind the record, and he didn't. Not to dog him out, but just Terror doesn't sell tons of records, so we're never going to have this big label that's going to treat us like we do, you know? Yeah, well, I mean, that's... Victory had turned into a whole different thing by then anyway, right?
At least I had a relationship with Tony, and I knew he was fucking crazy, and I knew he started the label out of his bedroom, and I loved his old bands, and I could text him and be like, I'll see a picture of him playing a show from 1989, and I'd email it to him, and he'd write me back. So we had that connection. personal relationship with Century Media, and I'm not trying to dog them out at all either, but it was just dudes.
Yeah, well, I mean, you can't say whatever you want about Tony Victory, but you put up those Only the Strong comps. Yeah, fuck yeah. I mean, that 7-inch is insane. Then like that mid-'90s one with Warzone on it and shit, sick. And then that 99 one is super underrated. I think, isn't Buried Alive on that?
Yeah.
That
was, was it maybe only the strong three? Yeah, when the hoods are on. The 99
hoods, built to last. Notice and victim. Yeah, notice and victim. Yeah, that's kind of cool. Do you have an opinion on Christian hardcore?
Like, does it belong in the scene opinion?
Yeah, I just, yeah, your general thoughts on it. Like, I'm kind of curious. And you don't have to answer if you don't want. Yeah. It's
a weird thing because being devoted to a God doesn't really play into what hardcore is to me. But I'm also mature enough to think if something helps someone be a better person in this fucking crazy world, if they genuinely have a faith in some sort of God or something, and that helps them to get through life and be a better person, then I'm kind of for it.
But there is... very bad examples of what it's done to people too so I see that side of it I don't know there was a time where you would catch me saying what is and what isn't hardcore and who belongs and who doesn't and this band's fake and that but I'm kind of like past that so the only thing that kind of weirded me out was like they had their own clubs and their own labels and they kind of like took the essence of hardcore and made their own scene that was Bizarro world.
Yeah, and it was also very, it was, I wasn't allowed there. I've given my life to hardcore, but I can't come into your show. Yeah. And I can't say the word fuck in here. Yeah. And Warzone has the word fuck on their record, so it's allowed in hardcore. Yeah. So it was strange, but I met some kind of cool people from that too, you know?
Yeah, I mean, I'm going off like a 20-year-old perspective on that stuff. But it was interesting to me back then how exclusionary it was. Because we'd be on some shitty tour and have a night off. And it's like, oh, there's a show in this town on the way. And contact them. And it's like, oh, it's a Christian show. What does Telmar Christian band do? They're like, well, I can't do that. I'm actually the guy putting on the show. Like, oh, you actually care? Like, fuck you then. I don't know.
That's weird. And
they kind of had advantages, too, because they had labels that would just put their stuff out. And like, I bet the church would lend them their van. Yeah.
Well, it was weird. And they'd have like that built-in following. Yeah. Like... So I don't know.
That's always just been a weird thing to me. You'd have these bands that would play for like, and they would call it secular and non-secular tours. I think they would say. Really? Yeah, like we did tours with the, what was that band? This is Terror, War of Ages. They're from Erie, PA. And they would, I think that's the word they would use. They'd be like, yes, we're doing a secular tour with these bands and then a non-secular tour with these bands. And like, it's just weird.
Yeah, that's all. I mean, it's
just weird. I never really got into any of those bands either, to be honest. I can't think of any band from Buffalo like that, but it was big and eerie, like Shockwave and all those bands. Here's a story I remember. Disciple, that eerie band, they played in Buffalo and stayed at my house, and we went to the supermarket, and... I don't think it was the singer. One of the guys, I asked him something. They were having a problem on tour or something, or their van was fucked up.
And he just looked me dead in the eye, and he's like, God will take care of it. It's going to be fine. And I was just like, holy fuck, man. I don't
think like that at all. I mean, there's got to be a little bit of, I don't know. Dead ass minute. Yeah, that's wild. I mean, there has to be comfort if you can like, believe like that
yeah
like everything will work out right like that's a pretty positive viewpoint but yeah yeah anyway i'm just curious about that um well you've been very generous with your time i
i'm uh you know i i was looking forward to doing this i think you're a great person and i like your podcast so thank you very much a lot of people ask me to do podcasts i don't know them at all and i don't know what they're into and stuff so
yeah yeah i want to uh I want to pay terror the proper respect of doing a nice long thing, because I think that, I don't know. I mean, is it weird knowing that you're in a perennial band? If people were going to objectively say top 50 hardcore bands of all time, I mean, you're on everyone's list. I
don't know if that's true.
50? 50 is huge.
I don't know if we'd be in there.
Okay.
i mean i mean new york alone's got like one through 20 right
yeah but not let's say it's not favorite it's important i think
you're on a top
20 then objectively
well if if we are on one person's list or everybody's list i totally appreciate it and you know i think we i think that's one of our our how we've been able to stay a band we're still just kind of humble and you know we've had our moments where we had a touch of ego and things like that, but it never got out of hand and it never got to like, why the fuck are we playing this? Why are we playing this? We still play a basement.
If we got asked to play a basement show somewhere or a house show, we'd do it. If we could, we'd do it in a minute. We never lost that.
No, you're still a hardcore band. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's all, right? I mean, and so there's something about You bridge a lot of gaps, I think. It's
funny. We just played that fest in Louisville. We're doing a tour coming up with Magnitude. We're doing a tour with One Step Closer in the summer, I believe, who are two bands I kind of like right now. I met both their singers and just talking to them, both of them said to me like, oh, one of my first shows was Terror and Backtrack or Terror and Trapped Under Ice. So the younger kids were just on that cusp with the kids that got into it that are doing bands now. Terror's just at that point.
Terror and Trapped Under Ice, that era. When Reaper was really doing a lot of stuff.
Yeah, I mean, that's 10 years ago now. Jesus fucking Christ. Scary. Scary. But yeah, no, you've been very generous with time. Appreciate it, Scott. Do you feel like the first half of your... Your hardcore career has been
well represented. Yeah, I mean, we could sit here and talk about a million things. If you ask me the right questions, I could give you a million stories. Well, I don't have all the right questions, man. I think we got the bones and some cool stories, and that's what's important.
Yeah, and also, you've done a lot of interviews talking about this stuff. I think the one with Toby was really good. Yeah. With Toby H2O, he has a podcast as well. I'm sure everyone knows. Yeah, his was good. Yeah, it was really good. I
like all his interviews, honestly.
Yeah, no, I think he does a good job. His Rolodex is impressive. It's like every fucking week I'm like, oh shit, he's got him, he's got him, he's got him.
And he's very persistent. Not that he had to be with me, but I know how he is. If he wants something, he's going to go get it. Yeah,
well, you got to stay on top of it because there is... Doing a project like this, there's a lot of anxiety involved of running out of material. Shit. I mean, think about it. I think he does it once a week, doesn't he? He's pretty prolific. I think it comes out once a week. And it's gnarly to stay on top of. So much respect to everyone doing it, this weird thing we do now. Interview.
Face-to-face interview.
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting like that, right? It is kind of like the new zine,
you know? I think of how much more you can get. Like, if you would have sent me these questions and I had to type them, I would have given you the quickest... It's two pages. ...to get through it. When I get a typed interview, I just try to get through it, you know?
Yeah. Well, and this gets, like, the way that people talk and everything, too, which is, you know, the original intent of the podcast was to get a lot of the... the first-generation hardcore
guys down. That's something that's cool for me about your podcast because those bands were – I know all their names, but I don't know the records. I don't know the history. So to hear some of these dudes talk about the early 80s, what was going on, because those bands never really in Buffalo reached there. So I know the names. And then, of course, you'll – someone will talk about a certain song or something and I can go right to Spotify, listen to the song.
And then I hear what the band actually sounds like. And then it's, it's like teaching me about this scene here, which is probably what you're trying to do.
Yeah. I mean, it is in, in really just all this year I'm doing all of California. So we're branching a little bit, which is why we're doing you.
Do you have an interest in getting, uh, Dan Gump or excessive force or something?
Yeah. I would, I mean, I would like to, I'd like to do that. That would be cool. Um, I got a list of people. I want Pat Dubar. Nice. Who I want the most. I got to
track him down. Yeah, see, there's people. I do a lot of podcasts, but then it's crazy to me. Hot Water Music, people probably don't know this, but Hot Water Music is my favorite band ever. And I just heard Chuck Regan, their singer, one of their singers, on a podcast for the first time ever. And I learned so much about him and the band. And I was thinking like, why hasn't he been on podcasts before? Maybe he has, but I just haven't come across it. But it was really cool.
Like for a super fan like me, I'm hearing all these little stories and he's talking about how they used to fist fight each other in the street and
stuff. So like, you know.
Yeah. And just, there's so much like, just with hearing the way people talk, you know, it's like that if, you know, everyone dies, right? So, Like, it's weird. Hardcore has always been... I don't know. There's been lots of good videos. So you do hear sometimes. But now kind of everyone can get on. Right, right. Hear how they talk.
It's cool. Like, the singer of that band, Silverstein, if you know who they are. They're kind of like an Every Time I Die type band. Silverchair? Silverstein. They're, like, from Toronto. Okay. Anyways, their singer does a podcast called Lead Singer Syndrome.
Okay. And he interviews all types of... singers and he had me on it and so since then i've listened to a bunch of his episodes and he'll do more of like the the warp tour scene like that whole thing and uh sometimes i'll listen to these people i'm thinking like i fucking hate this band they're so whack but then i'll i'll hear the interview of the dude and Or the girl. And I'll be like, they're cool as shit. And it kind of gives you a different perspective of the band.
Because definitely there's going to be bands where I hear their music and it's not for me. And I'll just be like, nah. But then you actually get to hear the person's personality. And you're like, this person's fucking cool. Give this band another chance. Yeah.
There's a guy from, I think he played in the Ataris. And he does a pod. And he had a Roger on who's a guitarist for Atali. He plays in the Warriors. He'll play tonight. Yeah. And yeah, it's interesting. It's just an adjacent world, but it's so different. If you're a guy that's used to being in a band like the Ataris, the questions you ask and so forth, it's very different. But that's not a knock on anyone. It's just that it's a different reality and a different outlook on punk music, I guess.
But very, very interesting. Anyway, thanks so much, Scott. All right,
goodbye.
Yeah, so... That is part one, Scott Vogel. I'm going to do a part two. But I think that Terror is such an important band of this era of hardcore, like the last era. It's like they've been a band now 18 years that I want to do a whole episode of deep diving into all the records and give them the proper respect they deserve because they're a generational band. They're a legacy band at this point. Yeah. The East Coast has a lot of them, you know.
Sick of It All, Gnostic Front, Madball, all these bands that, you know, they tour, they put out records, and they've been together for a long, long time. And I really want to dig into each one with Tara because I think that their discography is often overlooked as being as awesome as it is. Like... To put out that many fucking LPs is pretty amazing. And they're all really solid. In fact, the last two are possibly my two favorites. So I want to dig into all that.
And we'll have Vogel back real soon. If you got any questions for him, shoot him my way. And we'll try to get him answered on the next pod. Thank you for the support, dudes. Smash that fucking Patreon.