39. Ryan Fredette (In Control) part 2

What's up, everyone? around that time. So yeah, this is a little bit more of an outside perspective, but someone that's been associated with Oxnard for a long time interviewing us will consider this one part two. I'm hoping to bring Aaron back in and do like a part three, have a fun episode. Yeah, I hope you enjoy. If you want to support the podcast, please like, rate, review, subscribe. Share it with all your friends on social media. Call up your friends.

185 miles south a hardcore punk rock podcast

Oh, yeah. Well, we're in. Are we going? Yeah. So I'm handing this podcast off to Fernando. He can introduce himself.

All right, cool. So my name's Fernando. Fernando is a born and raised in Oxnard, part of, like, the, I guess, the Oxnard hardcore scene from, like, what? What street did you grow up on? Oh, Ginger Street and Gonzales Road, man. That was it. Gonzales. Did a couple of fanzines, too, at Oxnard. Played in a couple of bands, too. V.Y.O. and then recently won Marron, which is kind of for any Swizz fans out there. Hit me up. Not a lot, I think.

Hey!

That's cool. Swizz is cool. So... I had a little thing to contextualize the city because I think the podcast, the theme is obviously around Oxnard, right? And I think it's really cool what In Control did and how, I mean, lyrically, and I wrote that in here in the notes, and in terms of the imagery and a lot of things that you guys talked about, that was at the core, right?

Oh yeah, yeah,

yeah. So then like... Cesar Chavez. Yeah, so like for like the cultural production... That we have, like, we produce all this badass shit, like, you think, like, oh, who's going to do some shit in this town?

think we got lucky. You know, we grew up in a city that always was famous for, we always had fans. There was always, even when I was a kid, Ventura County was always popular for having like a lot of punk rock fans. If there's a punk rock band coming to our city, It was going to be packed. 300 kids might not seem a lot to most people, but to us, that was a big show.

Yeah, yeah.

And a lot of movement, a lot of action, you know?

And so going into that, that we had this pedigree, right? How was it? And I know you kind of talked about it, Ryan, and Zach, I feel like I've heard sporadic podcasts. I haven't heard every single one, but... Get on that. Where did you guys grow up? Because whenever I've interviewed bands, I always like to go, where are you guys from? I mean, obviously you're from Oxnard, but what part of Oxnard? You asked the street, right? Where did you guys grow up? Silverstrand Beach, Sunset Drive.

Beach, Pasadena Avenue.

And what about the other guys that eventually were also

in control? Well, let's see. Chris Holden, his dad also owned Pat Holden's Liquor. Shout

out to the North Side. Our first bass player, his grandpa was Pat Holden. Oh, what? That's sick.

Oh, that ass. Yeah. I worked there, too. That was fun. Yeah, they got robbed like three times a year. I was like, I'm out of here, man. Well, because the cameras were fake. Oh, they were fake. I was like, oh, fuck this. His dad would be yelling at fucking Vatos and shit. I was just like, ah, dude, this is sketchy as shit. It's

part of our city.

So... The impetus of In Control was you had like the big bands in the 80s that put like Oxnard on the map and Nautical on the map. And then you had like a downtime in the late 80s. And then in the early 90s, in the mid 90s, a bunch of bands popped up. And these were big influences on us. The Birding Dogs and the Clinch Fists and the F.A.Y. Missing 23rd. Missing 23rd. Might as well lump in No Motive as well.

probably. I think after. I think way after. That Sessions record. The Sessions one? Yeah.

Yeah, so, like, we'd already done another year by then. So, basically, Narcore never died, and there was lots of really, really good underrated bands in the 90s, but we wanted to, like, get it back out there that it was here. And also, when we were coming up, the scene was, like, kind of divided, and we were actually more like we're Oxnard hardcore bands. Like, we didn't... It was weird to take the label because no one had given it to us. And we were kind of playing a different type of music.

Well, we put in our work. I mean... We didn't just start a band. Like, oh, I want to be the singer. No, we went to shows every weekend, no matter what. Even on a weekday. You set up shows, put out bands. Yeah, we're active participants. Fires, everything. I

did a zine. Always try, yeah. Yeah, always try. That's right.

I still got that shirt, by the way. That

shirt is sick. It's too large for me. So then, I guess now I can go in that direction. But then I feel like... I remember you've shared the story of how you kind of got into hardcore punk, and you've shared it before. Do you want to go into that? Because I don't want to drop it with that. Most of the stories are the

same. So me and Ryan always gagged that Jeff Hershey stole his entry to Punk Rock Story. Like, oh, I borrowed a tape from so-and-so, and that's how I got into it. And so me and Ryan always joke about it, because it's funny that Jeff Hershey stole Ryan's

Punk Rock Story. That's like my real story. But...

But I think what Ryan fails to know is that's a pretty universal story because it happened to me too. Yeah. And so I was weighing the music when I was like a kid. Um, cause I'm an only child. So I have like lots of time alone. I have a really small family. And, uh, so I would be like way into like Motley Crue and poison or shit

when I was like in,

when I was in like, I don't know. I started probably liking my own music when I was in like fourth grade or something. Right. And so like inevitably you start moving more towards like Metallica and then Slayer and then that early nineties death metal shit hits like right when I'm like 12 and shit. So it's like get into that. And then, uh, someone plays me bad religion suffer. And I'm like, what the fuck is this?

Suffer. Suffer? It was on No Control? Correct.

Oh.

Shit. It was all suffering. I got a funny story for you. My first bands were actually Jimi Hendrix, Jethro Tull, and Led Zeppelin. That's because my mom forced them down my throat. And I did like them a lot. But the first punk rock band that I heard was The Descendants. And they were a, you know, SoCal punk rock band. And the first song I heard was Bike Age. I was like, okay, I'm in. And that was like 1994, I think,

or

92.

So what schools did you go? Because I'm thinking, I like to put it in context, like your kids, but like what are your peers into or what are the friends that you start to meet that kind of... have those similar interests because it you know obviously look at where you are now with bands and the networks but at what point do you meet like middle school or high school well i've known ryan since elementary school me and zach were in

elementary school together and he had a band called purveyors of pestilence

oh yeah this isn't until we go to we go to hollywood school and

then we go to eo green yeah oh nice so we were like 12 13 14 And he started a metal band, and we would always go to their shows. They only had like a house show. Always, we played two shows. A house show and a show with one of your naval bases. That's

right, that's right. We played Eric Fisher's Attic, and then we played on the Navy base, because our drummer's dad was the admiral.

Oh, damn.

So he rented out some fucking hall for us. But that was the last time we ever played, because I cussed a lot on stage. They're like, you can't be in a band like this. You know? You were fucking 13. I was like, oh, fucking A. All I listened to at that time was fucking the Slayer Live record. You know, the double disc? What is that? Decade of Aggression. Yeah, Decade of Aggression. I

know that record very well.

Yeah.

I recorded that record, and I actually edited out all the solos.

That's how much Ryan hates guitar solos. He edited out every single solo on a double live

CD. It was a big CD, too.

Yeah. And where are you guys buying? Where are you guys getting this music? I mean, because. Well, there's the warehouse.

There was a Centerpoint Mall. I remember, like, my grandma would come. This is, like, back when I got into Motley Crue. She'd come into town, and we'd take the bus. Because the bus still went to Silverstrand at that time. We'd take the bus from Silverstrand to Centerpoint Mall, and she'd let me buy one cassette. And so the first cassette I got was like, I can't remember if it was Shout at the Devil or Dr. Fuel Good. Oh, wow. Because I got the other one the next time.

That's funny because when I went to Warehouse, it was actually next to the Cary Square movie theater. It was on C Street.

Oh,

yeah. It was C Street, Oxnard Boulevard, I think. Gonzales. Gonzales and Oxnard Boulevard, yeah. It was right next to C Street. But I never went to that warehouse where Zach went.

Yeah, that's the original, man. Why are you scared, fool? So then you mentioned, I feel like there was a lot of territory that's somewhat been covered, but you guys ended up going to Oxnard High, right? Yeah. Both of you? You went too?

I'm one year older than Ryan, so I went to the old Oxnard High School my freshman year. We were born in the same year. And that was the shit. The old Oxnard High was the fucking shit. I can't believe all the stuff that would happen there. Yeah. I don't know. They gave up because it was the final year. But it was just way more lawless. We used to just smoke weed on the field and they didn't care. They didn't give a shit. Because they thought it was 15-year-old smoking cigarettes.

There was always a cop on the campus at all times with a gun. But when my brother was a freshman, he said every day they would have to get on a bench and they would just stand still because all the essays and the homies would just start brawling. And it was just fucking like, dude, high school was fucking scary back then. When my dad was in high school, it was just the same thing. But he was a big football player. He didn't have nothing to worry about.

When did you guys end up graduating from there? Because I feel like that era, so when I was writing about this and thinking about it, I don't know, I can't stop thinking about, like, I guess my mind goes directly to, I guess, when I kind of discovered you guys and when, like, that was on my radar, which was, like, Stand Your Ground. Oh, man, this was, like... 97? There was a show that, there was, like, a benefit memorial show for somebody. Oh, the Ray Hughes Memorial.

Southern California hardcore, even though...

Well, to answer your first question, Ryan graduated Oxnard High School in 1999. I graduated from... I graduated Silver Strand High in 1998 on the independent study. Dude, that's the best. But, yeah, so the Life's Hall 7-inch predates all that. That was, like, 98. That's earlier.

Yeah.

I don't remember when the carry-on the line is drawn is. That's probably, like, right around then also.

It was, like, 98, 99. It was, like,

98-ish. Yeah, about then. The Incontrol 7-inch isn't until the year 2000. And Fields of Fire is right in line with us. Like, their timeline... lines up because

it just seemed like that well it's only

within two years right and we're friends with all those guys like that's that's why it was easy it wasn't nothing's easy but when e-control started it was very easy for us to get um southern california shows all over because like ryan said we'd been going to shows for years like we were we knew everybody yeah we were we were friends and fans of all those bands you mentioned like We went to, like, every Life's Halt show. I mean, we saw them when they just had the demo out, like, before they had

fans. At the Bullocks. No, that was

actually after. I think the first time we saw them was at whatever tour. What was Chain Reaction before Chain Reaction? Oh, it was called Public Storage. Public Storage. Yeah. Remember? And, like, they just played, and it was, like, a cyclone, and it just ended when the drummer, like, destroyed his drums. Yeah. Yeah. It was, like, what the fuck? That was their first drummer. He didn't play on the 7-inch. I can't remember the drummer. I don't remember his name. Fuck. Their drummer is so good.

you off. Oh, no, no, no. Go ahead. I got a funny story for you. Okay. When we did our demo, right? This is the first time I've ever been in a studio in my life, right? And we're just doing the Nardcore intro. Like, N. Yeah. A. Nardcore. R. Nardcore. And I fuck up and I say something when everyone else is quiet. There's like eight of us around the mic. And Max is in the studio. He goes, hey, step into my office.

but you guys like were so what i'm saying is like you had laid this foundation because a lot of hardcore is establishing networks and you guys really like like i feel like that's really like kind of overlooked sometimes and when you talked a lot about putting in the work you guys you guys how many shows did you guys go to because i remember like robert and all these guys and milo would tell me you guys were going like all the time all the

time i mean it was a passion it was yeah it was my life

i mean like santa cruz and then come home and not sleep and then go to school that morning

yeah or we'd go to go see built to last in san diego And come home the same night.

Yeah.

So it's like we literally spent seven hours in a car to go see one band. Yeah. That's fucking psycho.

We did that a lot. Weekend after weekend or during the week even.

Fuck, man. And how much of a role did that play? eventually and like i would with the success of the band because i guess it's something that starts to build up right and how many like what shows did you guys set up because i know you guys were involved in that like what bands did you guys bring did you guys like the laser star stuff yeah

yeah um todd did like the the east coast bands he did 97a he did in my eyes in my eyes i don't think any of us did i can't remember who did that that was the very first one That was the first one, I think. That was before there was a stage or anything. But he brought out Floor Punch.

I ferned that bill.

What do you mean?

I paid $300 to pay Floor Punch, and I got paid back at the end of the

night. Oh,

okay. And I was

nervous about that, too. That's funny. I brought out Funeral Oration. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did... Fuck, I did that... What was it? It was like Buried Alive, Reach the Sky. Yeah, Reach the Sky and Buried Alive.

Scott Vogel.

All Out War.

All Out War. That's right.

I don't know. It was a long time ago.

There was like five bands that played that bill, actually.

There was a lot of bands. Yeah, because Burden was down at that time from Vancouver. And they were cool guys, too. I think Committed was out, too, from Cleveland. It was like, oh, a bunch of bands converging on a show with 30 people. The summer of 99 was actually really rough. I mean, it could have been anything. We talked about it. on some other pod. But Standing Ground had broken up, and Ink Control didn't start until October.

But the next year, though, I remember Laser Star was, like, the happening place to go. I mean, I saw kids the next year after I got out of high school wearing our shirts, and every Laser Star show would have, like, 300 kids. Well, Laser Star was... That shirt was everywhere. But Laser,

there wasn't a long run after that, because Inga Troll played the final Laser Star show. Yeah, we... Our first show was

the last Lady Star show. Yeah, it was October 7th. Yeah, so it was like

October something of 99. So it's like they tanked that summer, the shows, and then like, yeah, our first show and the last Lady Star show was a couple hundred people. So did we have a local venue? I guess Pat's Warehouse? Was there a local venue? Well, that didn't come until like probably a year

or so later. That's why in the

year 2000 we got really lucky that our second bass player, Micah, had a van. Because we played San Diego all the time. We played PCH all the time. We played Headline Records. Yep. And then we'd play anything. So, you know, we're playing house shows, whatever the fuck ever. I mean, we have a list of all the shows.

I almost got fired from my job because I kept going on all these shows on Friday and Saturday nights.

Let me see that.

Here, this is the first page, right? Worldwide. Worldwide. Sacto, baby. Yeah, I mean, our second show ever was Sacramento.

So then, that's funny, because as I'm thinking about... This is not the first

page. This is 01. Give me the fucking stack. No, no. The first page is... Our second show was Worldwide. West Coast, Worldwide. Yeah. Well, it's all backwards. So, yeah. I'm...

No, it should be. I

just said hamming

the fucking stack. God damn it. Can I say that on the podcast?

I think you can. Oh, Cobalt. Forgot about that. Oh, the Cobalt. Yeah, and then Jerry's Pizza, Baker's Field. So if you think about that, that's five steady spots. Yeah. With Shea, PCH, Headline. Ojai comes later. Ojai comes later. Pass Warehouse comes later. Yeah. Oh, Pickle Patch also? Of course. So that's still going. It's on the very tail end of that. And then, yeah, I mean, it takes a while. And you still have the living room going there, too.

Man.

So it's like there's a lot of fucking opportunities, but none in Oxnard proper. So all that is outside of Oxnard.

But we had like a 60-mile radius. And in fact, we actually had a San Diego to San Francisco radius, if you think about it. Not San

Francisco.

Eh, we would go up

there. I know, but if he's talking about the first fucking start... We didn't go up there until we played with Kill Your Idols and we played to zero people. Me and Belshaw got arrested out of

high school because we were going to the Powerhouse show. We were in Oxford High School and me and Aaron got arrested. Because the guy's like, the cop shows up. He's like, what are you guys not in class for? He's like, oh, we're going to Oakland to see Powerhouse. The cop's like, get in the car. And Belser looks at him and goes, why the fuck did you say that, man?

He didn't like Powerhouse, man. What the hell? So with that. He's like, you fucking kids. So as you guys, so you had the Nardcore bands, right, that you guys were eventually into. But then one thing that I always noticed, and I feel like you guys were ahead of the curve of this And Zach, I feel like I don't know how much of that was your influence. But at one point, because I remember you were one of the first dudes that were in the E-Town Concrete and a lot of this heavier stuff.

fan before that. So we got into hardcore in the pre-internet era, but I did have AOL. And so AOL was like chat rooms, and you could talk to people. So that was fun, and I learned stuff there. But yeah, mostly just, I don't know. I got into the heavy stuff. I never had a style, right? I've never been into fashion, and I've never tried to be a part of something, especially because... I don't know. Straight Edge Hardcore is one of my favorite musics ever.

we found a part on a song that we're like, dude, that shit is fucking sick. We

found some shit. It's the same thing. I guarantee that I probably bought the fucking 25 to Life demo 7-inch. Rick to Life has probably pressed fucking 50,000 of those. It's the easiest record in the world to find. If you don't have it, you can get it for a dollar on Discogs. It probably just crossed my path early, and it sounded like nothing else. I was like, I fucking liked this. Like, I liked all that hard New York shit. And I also liked pop punk.

Yeah, that was the cool thing. It's like, we had such a broad spectrum. I mean, we liked the Bull Weavers, Lagwagon, 25 to Life, Hatebreed, Slayer. I mean, Iron Maiden. I mean, we had so much music that was out there that we all loved. Tom Waits. Tom Waits. Brain Dogs. Yeah, I like a lot of hip hop. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved A Tribe Called Quest. And I loved... The NWA, the first record, Niggas With Attitude. I love that record. I think that record is actually a punk rock record.

Oh, yeah,

yeah. But I mean, it was such a broad range. There was no limits to what we could listen to and like. And Zach used to always play. So

when you guys were going on, I'm always really interested in knowing what you were listening to and what you were influenced by to create the records and the lyrics. Because the lyrics, I mean, we'll get into that. And I love that. Let me write the shitty

ones.

No, no, but I mean, I like that. You always wrote about Oxford and talked about it in imagery. And I don't know. I mean, I guess, I mean, that was part of our pedigree. But when you're going on the tours, what are you blasting? And I remember you guys have the website. Back in like 99, 2000, 2001. Shout out Geocities. Yeah, that was so sick. Because I remember you guys all had your profiles. Yeah. And what you liked, your stats. Can you guys go into that?

we're just trying to have fun, right? And it's like, try to let people get to know you. I mean, we don't know how to make a band connect with people. And we're just having fun. And we don't take ourselves that seriously. So yeah, we have like... profiles up on our website, right? With like our favorite bands, our favorite pro wrestlers, favorite comic book, favorite fucking quote from the stone age, you know, all that, all that important shit. And, uh, I also used to do tour diaries.

think I just had the shows. No, it's on another

attachment. You don't need to go through it now. No, I mean, we probably lost like half of it because I used to do like a show review, I think, of every show we played and put

it on the website. Not like a big review, just like a couple.

Yeah, a paragraph. Like, oh, this band played, they were all right. Like, this band played, it was cool. They were pretty okay. Yeah, but I did a full diary of every single tour we ever did. And I think I salvaged like 80% of it. It's still like available. And I'll put it up on the internet soon again. Who was your favorite pro wrestler?

Come on, man.

Well, Hulk Hogan until he went white power. Now it's bad news, Alan, because I want a black guy to kick Hulk Hogan's ass.

Ultimate warrior. He's the worst. I can't even do it. Rest in peace, Ultimate Warrior 2. I just like the way he shook the rings, that's all.

So then when you guys were on tour and you were talking about the stories and the first tour... Did you guys even have a tape or anything? Oh, yeah. We had a tape player. There was

a tape player in the van. So that was one of the things that we had to prepare for before you leave for tour, is put all your CDs. Because back then, we'd move past the cassette era. Everything was CD or vinyl. And actually, vinyl wasn't super popular then. So you'd record all your CDs or whatever down to fucking tape. Yeah. you know, how many fucking tapes are you going to buy? You know, like they never got cheap, right?

Yeah.

Some shit. And so like we'd buy like a pack of like 10 blank tapes and I'd make some mixed tapes and then also just like some shit that I'd mix down. Like what were all of them? We listened to a lot of Swingin' Utters. We listened to a lot of Blitz. That whole Blitz record was like the main, main one. Rages in the Night. Yeah. And I don't really remember. Because whatever it was, you got sick of it like three days in. You

know what I

mean?

On our second tour, I always had to do the night shifts, right? So I had to drive from midnight to 8 a.m. around there somewhere. And I would always pick an Iron Maiden album because I knew that was one hour. So I would play that album. The entire was like, all right, I got through an hour. All right, I'm good. Everybody was snoring, sleeping, passed the fuck out. I think Albert was actually awake with me a lot of times.

Oh, Mosh Hard. Shout out to Albert.

Yeah.

That Brave New World record was out by then. Yeah, I think it was. That was a great driving record. That came out in 2000. Yeah, Verbal Assault. Verbal Assault, yeah. Outspoken.

Outspoken was great. Oh, I can still remember that song with the whales. There was so much stuff. Gosh, man, I wish I could. There was a tape that I used to always play, and it was actually a mixtape by Zach, but

I

can't remember the bands. I think

it was... Well, Stu has them all now. I gave Stu all my cassettes. Oh, yeah. Stu told me about that.

Stu from San Diego or Santa Cruz? Wait. Oxnard.

Stu from Oxnard. Omega Point.

Oh, Stu. Yeah, yeah. Stu, Stu. Oh, okay. I was thinking Spencer, actually. I was like, fuck that up. Sorry, guys. Sorry. I really fucked that up. I was like, Spence? No, I said Stu, idiot.

Yeah. So then you guys just had this... And it's interesting because with all the kids that... are still into In Control. It's basically legendary status here. I always find it interesting to get into the mind of what are the band that I like, what were they listening to, what were they influenced by? And it's cool that you guys have this really diverse thing going on. And with regards to the lyrics, who wrote most of the lyrics? I

wrote the shitty ones.

He wrote some okay songs. He wrote one song on the demo. We wrote... the second like we wrote the pro-gay marriage

song together the last basically Zach would be like look what do you want to sing about and I'd give him an idea and then he would construct these lyrics that were like okay that's fucking pretty good because I couldn't put those words together like that

yeah yeah

but then he would have me sing them and I was always off time and he'd be like alright dude look I gotta coach you through this shit

how was that for you man because I know that was cool where you talked about a coach and you had that metaphor because I know I did vocals in a band and it was like we got pretty good Pretty brutal, but I get it. Now I get it. When you think about it, you think, okay, I want to be a singer

for hardcore band. Oh, it's going to be so easy. No. It's not going to be easy. It's going to be fucking hard. It hurts. And it hurts really bad. Like, I would drop to my knees in the studio, and Zach would be like, come on, you got this. You got it. And he would never let me punch in, ever. He would never let me punch in. Oh, damn. Which is total

bullshit,

because

I punch in so hard on Retaliate.

He punches in all the fucking time. Dude,

when I did the first Retaliate record, I was like, oh, my God, I should let Ryan sock me. Because I'm punching in every fucking line.

If you don't know what punching in is, okay, like... If you ever sing an entire verse. In the

radio podcast world. Yeah, well, okay, here's what it was. When that stuff started happening, I hated how it sounded. They would let the sentence overlap. Yeah. It was fake. We were very about being able to do live whatever we did in the studio. Yes. And to a stupid degree. I don't really believe that stuff anymore. But keep in mind, we're 20 years old when we record another year. So... I don't know. I mean, I think you should just do whatever to make it sound good now.

to that song and imagine singing that straight through with no breaks, no nothing. And the headaches and the sweating. We weren't even drunk. We were sober when we did that shit. And I would fall to the ground. I'm like, Zach. He's like, come on. You got to do this. You can do this. You're a fucking pussy. Get on your feet. Let's do

this. I don't remember that at all.

Yeah, bullshit.

So this was the whole time. We

did everything. If we're going to play this in the studio, we're going to play it live. Even though we only had one guitar player for a long time. Yes, we didn't get to play all the pussy songs. Well, we did play Two Towers a lot. That was our ending song, of course. And we played Once Upon a Town in Iowa. To a bunch of girls. Acapella.

No, that's not what happened. Yeah, we did. No, I played. You played. I played

Two Towers. No, you played Once Upon a Town. Because I remember I punched in. I was like, because you could take me out of this

town. And then we. Oh, they wanted to hear that song. Yeah. Yeah, those girls, they drove like. Yeah, that's okay. So they drove like two hours to see us play like this fucking garage show. Anyway, these girls come. And they were just like, we really want to hear this song. I was like, well, it's not on the set list. We haven't practiced it, so we can't play it. But I was like, I'll tell you what. Stick around, and I'll do it for you after the show.

So Zach goes, okay, I'll do it. So we get in the garage, and he thinks the three girls are going to come in. And then like 25 or 30 kids come in. Yeah, like the whole show comes back. The whole

show comes back, and I was like, oh, God damn it. That's single shit. In front of everybody? Yeah. With an acoustic guitar. But it's like, but whatever. I mean, like if someone... I don't know. If someone drove that far and they wanted to hear a song. That was one of the highlights of that tour. I can't deliver it to them. I'm going to try to do my best. Whatever.

No, that was one of the highlights of the tour. To me, that was a great moment. It was killer. And everybody liked it. And you nailed it, too.

Of course I nailed it. I fucking

wrote it. I wrote the fucking song.

No, it was cool. The Modern Life is Water guys were supportive. I saw them kind of mouthy in the lyrics.

That was cool. So then as you guys, with the lyrics, what I always thought was cool was that You know, the way it is now, it's like everybody's hyper, too serious about the council culture and all that. But you guys had these really awesome, intelligent lyrics. But you guys were always really chill and cool, like down to earth. But when you get into the lyrics and about the depth with a lot of the lyrics, what was it that kind of... I guess, what was it that made you...

one would ever accuse Inga Trove of being PC. No, we weren't. Yeah, that's what I mean. But when it came time to, like, crafting art... Like, I take hardcore music seriously. Like... Some people, that's why I get so offended sometimes by like joke hardcore bands. It's like the people think this music is simple or people think the music is silly or whatever. And it's like, it's not. There's a real art to it. And like there's a big gap between good hardcore bands and fucking shit hardcore bands.

wave. I'm going to go hard, head first, everything I do. Look, a lot of people that I've worked with in the past 20 years think that hardcore music is just noise. it isn't fucking noise it's actually pretty fucking hard okay it takes a lot of work

yes

and we took it seriously and you know what I think that's why people still respect us to this day because we didn't fuck around like when we did something we did it head first You know?

Yeah, you can listen and it's like we also weren't like the most skilled band. I mean, I was never the best guitarist.

I was

a terrible singer. Yeah, but it's like. No, but the vocals, bro, they were sick.

But we did the best. But we did the best. Like we took everything seriously and like gave it our all. Yeah. You know, there was no shortcuts on anything.

That's why people respected us. Because I think they realized like, hey, these guys aren't fucking around. Yeah. You know?

With a song like Let It Be, like...

Not to suck each other's dicks or nothing like that. I mean, we can.

I'm open. Anyways, Let It Be. So, like, with Let It Be, what was it? Because I always thought... I mean, we used to sing these lyrics, like, going from Robert's house to, like, Danny's to Amici's and, like, getting pizza. And we used to, like, sing... When that EP came out, we used to sing along and it was, like, Kavi, Milo, like, a whole crew of people, Kyle, Beavis, like, everybody. What was it that prompted that? That one I always thought was cool because you look at what's happened That's a

very heartfelt song.

That's like

local. We saw every farmland being urban sprawled, cultivated. We didn't

want Oxnard to end up looking like Orange County. And it's funny because something will pop up like, What's that shit called? The Collection? Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, and it's like, everyone flocks to it, or like... Like, oh, yeah, cool. Or like, you guys get like a Buffalo Wild Wings, and it's like, oh, fuck yeah, Buffalo Wild Wings. It's like, god damn it, dude. Like, so poor local business.

We did that song in... It was public storage at the time, but now it's chain reaction. And I said, I was like, I don't want to see Oxnard become another fucking city in Orange County. And everybody booed me.

They're like, boo, you fucking pussy.

But I was just telling the truth. I really told what I felt. I didn't want to see another shopping mall, another shopping mall, another movie theater. It's like, I want fields. I want farms. Whatever.

What do you guys think about when you see now? Because I kind of get mad. But what do you guys think as, like, growing up here? Well, it's weird

for me because I don't live here anymore. So when I come back, I mean, this year I've been coming a lot more. But, you know, the previous years, it's like I might just come for Christmas and, like, one retaliate show. So it's like coming twice a year is weird coming in.

I totally agree with that.

But for us at the time, it was like we... I don't know. You love your hometown for lots of reasons. And the farmland and Oxnard being primarily Latino, these are all big parts of Oxnard. I don't know. It's weird. Oxnard's a crazy place, right? And so you don't want it to change because it's so special. You know, it's like trashy beach dudes and Mexicans. Yeah, yeah. You know? I mean, that's Nard. That's a sick mix.

would never ever want to be a hipster or a yuppie

or... I don't want to be a yuppie, you know?

I just don't...

But I don't even fucking live here anymore, so I got no say. I've

been in San Diego for 14 years. Well, I still live here and... I see the changes. And you know what? It's kind of fucked up because I don't want... With your own two eyes? The fields of green just fade

away. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Because I'm like, fuck. I think about that every time, man. Every time I

drive around. I see the changes

with my own two eyes. That's hilarious. And I'm thinking about that. I'm like, dude, what the fuck, man? What's happening? What do you think, Ryan? You know

what the fucked up thing is? I hate urban development or just building... But that's what I do. I'm a poor man. I work construction. I bleed. If I'm not bleeding, I'm not working. But this is what I do. I build custom homes and I build fucking structures. It's like, ah, fuck. I wish this was still a broccoli field. Like, god damn it. And we're just seeing it wither through our fingers. And there's nothing we can do about it.

What are other lyrics that you guys hold really close to you guys? I know that... Oh,

I still sing the Two Towers to myself every night. Oh, dude. Yeah. No. I have that song in my head over and over again. And it's the easiest song to play. It's just fucking what? Three chords?

So easy. Go write one. Go write

it, stupid. Hey, fucker. It's just a T formation, man. I'm so down. Like I said, I still sing that song to myself every night.

What about Omega Point? What made you guys write the lyrics to that? I mean, it's obvious, right? But now that... You see all this shit going on around the world that it never really stops. What were things that kind of... That's kind of similar.

That's the closest we ever got to a vegetarian song. Because I could never write a proper one. The great ones have already been written. Primarily, Shall Be Judged by Burn. And Youth of the Day, No More. Perfect lyrical songs for vegetarianism. But I don't know. That stab at it was – I think it was just something like some environmentalist talking about like, oh, the rainforest is burning, this and that. And they were talking about like some – Oh, well, you know, that sucks.

song is

an

anti-imperialist song,

right? Would you agree? It's just being conscious about things that are happening to the environment. Okay, okay. That's it, right? Yeah. I don't know. I can't remember

the lyrics. What's the verse? Oh, come on, buddy. What's the verse? Humans aren't the only... Well, the breakdown is a part of it. Oh, yeah, that's a

pro-animal song. Oh, fucking whatever. If you want to kill koalas, dude, let's fuck up. I don't think that's a koala.

I love koalas until they want to rip my throat out.

Little

lizards. I don't know. No, that was just a... environmental, socially conscious song, I guess. I

mean,

it was pretty good, man. The fucking lyrics were good.

No, the lyrics were dope, man. I mean, I'm very apocalyptic thinking, so when someone's talking about stuff, all those lyrics were so dope to me.

I think that song was about trying to save as much as you can, but yet the music... wants to make you destroy your fellow man. The music makes you want to burn a forest. I just want to fucking give this motherfucker a good elbow right in the

ribs. That's what I love about hardcore. No, that's what I'm saying. As you guys go into this, what is it like when you're writing lyrics, Zach? How do you sit down and what is the process that you go through when you're sitting down and then... As you're getting coached, because people don't understand, like you said, the vocal delivery. And when you talked a lot about the vision and how you wanted this to be something that was your baby, how was that process with you and Ryan?

it was a struggle.

I mean, I would never have Ryan sing something that he wouldn't stand behind, right? Of course. That is a huge limitation put on me, right? Yeah. that I'm writing knowing it is going through another vehicle. So that's compromise right there. As far as like... I don't know. I don't remember how I wrote songs. That shit like... Writing music and being an artist, I don't think it's about doing something. It's not like how Ryan's talking about how you frame a house. You can't just set out and do it.

But you always had a song in your head. At all times, right?

Yeah, yeah. Maybe more so before than now. It's still really hard to write lyrics, man. I'm trying to write the new Retaliate record, and a lot of it's really hard. I'll come up with one really good verse, and then you've got to have the next verse match it. And it's like, fuck, how do I write all this shit? And getting in that right mindset is hard. I don't know. Also, a lot of it is like, I think you bowl the best between the third and fourth beer.

And it's risky, too. When you write something, you put yourself out for scrutiny. So if you put a song, let's say you write a punk rock song. You put it out. There's going to be a lot of people that are going to hate you for it. A lot of people are going to like it. A lot of people are going to be like, ah, that's fucking cheesy. You suck. It's not an easy thing. I mean, that's difficult.

And nobody thinks about that. Yeah, you have to decide in your band how much you're going to want to put yourself out there, too, because it's so easy and hardcore to be like a fuck this, fuck that, fuck you band. Yeah, stab song. Right? I mean, it's so easy, and you can do a good band like that, like an early 80s hardcore band. And fuck this, fuck the world, fuck everything. But to be vulnerable in your lyrics, it's a risk, and it's scary. I mean, writing...

No,

it's nerve-wracking, actually. Until it's gone. I mean, that song on the demo, until it's gone. Yeah. Example of vulnerability,

you know? Yeah, well, I think Two Towers is also. I mean, that's a straight depression song. Yeah.

Yeah, no, it's fucked because I actually had to sing that song. And the entire time I was singing that song, I was always getting laid. Yeah, I remember. I was like, man, I always had a girlfriend. Like, fuck. But I obviously, I know what the song means. I've been there. I've been fucking really lonely. You know, that was pretty... That's still one of my favorite songs of all time.

No, same here, man. Like... What was it then that, because what's interesting is that the other song that I always think about is Gimme Some Reality, right? Because I remember back then, and you always used to talk about this, Zach, like hardcore, sadly, has been a lot of cliques, right?

positive. Yeah, the posy. Oh, everything's so happy. No, it's not. It was like the... Because that shit was on its way out, right? But I didn't write that song knowing that the next five years would turn into all the just not caring lyrically at all music. So, I don't know. I think that Gimme Some Reality was on the front end of the... of kind of saying the Posse stuff is silly. But I don't know. I think I'd take the Posse stuff over some of the Nagy stuff.

I think you wrote that song meaning like, look, man, life is not always going to be happy. Let's just accept it. This is the reality. And when that song came out, it was a big hit. Everybody liked it. And then the last couple of shows that we ever played, Zach's like, hey, man. do you just want to cut that song off the set list just to fuck with people?

Well, yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's one of the hardest things being in a band is finding the balance between what you want to play and what you want. Like, and, and, and pleasing people that show up to see you.

Yeah.

Right. And that's a really fine balance because you don't want to be a, a slave to like people's like their needs. Right. You want to have a little bit of like artistry in yourself and, I agree. But if you turn your back on the people that come and pay to see you, then they shouldn't come see you. But

we always respected our audience. Well, that's

why we always played that song. Yeah. Even if I didn't want to. There's

not a show we didn't play. I really don't want to fucking play this song. We got to do it. Come on. Everyone's here to see us. We're

going to play it. We're never not going to play it. It's like the hit

song. We played a show in Hyattsville, Maryland to one fucking guy. To one guy. And you know what? I think we played as hard that night as we played at Posse Numbers in front of 2,000 people.

Well, we played those songs back to back, too. I don't know if you remember this. So there was a band called Crispus Addicts. Crispus Addicts. It was their house. They fucking forgot to flyer the show. That's punk rock for you. It was like a Tuesday night or something. So there was no one there. And that was actually one of the guys from the band. He was walking from the backyard. You go through this little room, and then you go to the main house. And the show was in that little room.

But the funny thing was is we played to that one guy, and I was more nervous at that show than I was at... If I had 300 people watching this, it's like, oh, fuck, there's only one guy watching. No, I'm going to fuck this up. Dude. I can't fuck this up. I'm fucking

sorry, dude. That, like... I've been letting that one go for like 18 years now dude do you know how shitty that is that they fucking forgot to flyer that show like dude we're from so far away and we're like in kind of adjacent scenes like they're more on that life's all scene But I know we've seen it before and we had like mutual friends and shit. And it's like for you to fucking forget, like we're 3,000 miles from home. Like you're a fucking cocksucker, dude. You know?

Not that there's anything wrong with that. No, I'm just

saying like that's so fucking lame. I know. And it's like, I don't know. I've let that one go for so long and it's like. I think about it, and it's like, man, I should have been shit-talking that band for 18 years now. You know?

That's so lame. I always bring it up to when he gets pissed off. I

get so mad about it. I've always held that one down, and it's like, I think about it now sometimes, and I'm like, that is so fucked up. These two touring California bands are out there just to play a house show. And trust me, we do not expect the world. No. We just want you to put some flyers in a record store, and if eight people show up, that's cool. Maybe we make a new friend.

Did you guys keep track now that... We're going back to that time. Back then, and I guess a lot of kids don't know that, right now, I mean, I don't know, the Internet and media, social media is totally changing, hardcore and everything, right? But back then, fanzines were another place where you would send your records and you would kind of get your band up. Yeah, they get a review. Yeah, yeah. Did you guys keep track of the reviews, Zach, when you would send them out or you was just whatever?

do that, it's like... I already lost my fucking ass on putting out this record. I'm not sending an extra five bucks along with the record. The polite ones would, like, sometimes send you one. I remember

we got some

good

reviews.

Because I remember you getting good

reviews. Yeah, Lisa Oglesby from Heart Attack gave us, like, one of the most honest reviews we could have asked, which is so nice because, I don't know, we had some problems with people, like, thinking we weren't PC. And it's like, dude, look beyond, like, Look, dude, I didn't choose to fucking go bald. And so people sometimes judge me by the way I look. They think I'm fucking a knucklehead. What are you, a Nazi? Yeah, they think I'm a knucklehead or something.

dude i remember i used to read for you guys and whatever it takes when they sent it to heart attack i was like eager because it was like well what are they thinking about our bands because i remember i i always felt and um fred hammer talked about this because it was uh we talked about why was it that this santa barbara scene like i don't know man i mean i like a lot of those bands i don't want to talk mess but there was like a lot of elitism And then whenever like you guys would send stuff to

like, fuck you. Our heart is in the right place, and we're just trying to go somewhere with this band. I can't put out the same record every time like you guys did. You're in a niche genre. You're obviously one of the best bands of the niche genre, and Spaz is a respectable band. I loved them. I went to their last show. Yes, you did. What was your favorite Spaz song from? I don't know. Donger.

Donger.

But, yeah, I don't know. I just thought that was weak because it's like, dude, we're like fucking 2021. Like, we're just trying to do the best we can. And, like, to take a swipe on production, like, we don't fucking know what we're doing, stupid. Like, we just went to a studio, and, like, someone gave us money for the first time. I think Mandel gave us $1,000 to go record at DoubleTime, and we were just like, okay, this is where – I think Todd told you that Carry On, they

went and demoed some stuff there. Todd told us. He's like, go to Dump Time. You'll like it. And then Unbroken

had been there, and I think Overnight Body had been there. And there weren't a lot of Virginian studios. Now, Standard Grounded recorded with Paul Minor, but I think at that time, Paul Minor was still full-time with Death by Stereo because Paul Minor did the second record but not the first one. And there just weren't a lot of options, and it's like, dude – I don't know. I mean, another year did not come out how I wanted it to. Neither did Truth Hurts. No, Zach was like...

doing. Zach's like, dude, he wants to know how we want to sound. I was like, okay. He's like, go in the van. Get the One Life Crew crime study record. And I was like, all I got is a hate-free satisfaction that's desired. He's like, all right, that's good enough. Let's do it. And that's how he wanted us to sound because that's all we gave him. And so it was just a big fucking... Like he said, dude, we didn't know what we were doing.

We

had a good time.

No, like I'm saying, on all this stuff, like, we were not the best at what we did, but we did our best with, like, what we had. Yeah. You know, and so, like, when someone like that takes a weird stab like that, it's like, ah, that's just silly, dude. And I heard that guy's, like, one of the most sensitive guys in the world, too. You know? So, of course, like, you know, from your fucking soapbox, like, you fucking stab him downward, you know? Yeah, that was whack. I remember

that. When you guys went... into the, like, speaking of, like, bands and the first tour, which you mentioned in the first interview, the one that you had with, what was it? Who was there? Was it you and Stu? Stu was in the last one, right? When we were talking about the first In Control tour? Oh, me, Aaron. Aaron. So what was it like when you talked about that summer, right, that was really brutal and, like, you didn't want to do that? That was not going to happen again.

next year we did it all in June. I think we did like 35, 40 days. Well,

we booked it around Posse numbers. So if it was up to me, we would have just done spring and fall tours. But that year we had an opportunity to play Posse numbers in the year 2002. So we, yeah, I booked the whole thing basically. Like I never let anyone book us again because Fields of Fire, like they did an okay job. And like, again, they don't know what they're doing. So I can't judge them. But in the East Coast, we did a lot of like back trapping events.

out we didn't make any money

No, I know. I know, but we would have lost money if we would have been splitting that with another band. So, yeah, we went out for five weeks, and the tour was significantly better just because it made sense because I made sure we stopped everywhere along the way. So the drives are shorter. They make sense. There's some areas we never went to. We never went to Florida because you have to backtrack out of there. We never went to Alabama. Montana. Yeah, well... Dang, you went to Montana?

see Bane. You came

to see Bane, fucker. It was in

Tucson.

Yeah, and so our second day of tour was fucking off. It's like, yeah, we played Tucson, then we had a day off. It's like, fuck, dude. That's why we never went to Albuquerque.

I think we played basketball the next day. And it was like 180 degrees

outside. What was the lineup on this tour? Adam Lentz was on this?

No, he wasn't. He was the next year. This tour was Dave Hard Priest. Dave Priest. He was our bass player. The

guitarist from Die Hard

Youth.

What happened was, so in control we had Chris, then we had Micah, then we had Robert, and Robert went on the first tour, and then Robert quit after the tour. And then we got Jason. Bryce? Yeah. Jason Bryce and Javi were in the band for a minute, and Javi was too talented of a guy. So we kicked him out. No, he was just like a guy.

Oh, you're too good.

No, he's like, yeah, I mean, kind of. When he was young, he didn't know how to dial it back, so he wanted to be doing stuff all the time. It was hard for him to concentrate on playing really kind of basic music. So I think that he messed up in the first show, and we only had him in the band for one show. And then Jason stayed playing bass for maybe 10 shows or something. But Jason, he was really good friends with Javi.

we'll play. Robert's like, look, I can play... This song, we played six songs that night, plus the Ramones. We opened with the intro for Blitzkrieg Pop for the Ramones. And Rob was like, oh, I can do that.

Because that's all he could remember. And so we're like, fuck it. If that's all you've got, that's what we'll play.

But we still showed up,

and we still fucking played. Yeah, so what happened was, so then at that point, we had no bass player. And then I think that was the time when Albert was going to come in. And Albert was playing in a band called Within a Dream with Adam Hanlon and some other people. And they were like trying to be like a, I don't know, like one of those like metalcore bands that were like really talented and shit.

He was great, too.

Yeah. And that was the line of me, Ryan, Tony, and Dave.

Yeah, but Albert couldn't play the bass. Long answer to a short question. but he still went on tour with us. The roadie man for life. He's like, fuck it, I'm still going with you guys.

Well, he'd already dropped out of high school. He's like, I ain't got shit to do.

What were some other memorable, because I have, as I was looking at the shows, I was like, man, I wanted to ask, but I don't want to be the one, because I'm going to gravitate towards the combination of bands in here, but what, out of these shows, what were ones that for you really struck a chord that you're going to take to your grave? Every show that we played with them.

Kill Your Idols was a fucking great time. Even if there was nobody there or whatever, those guys, those were great shows. I mean, they just killed it. And they didn't give a fuck how many people were there or whatever, and they were tight. They were sick.

They were hardcore to the bone.

Blackout Records, right?

Yeah. They were an amazing band with the right mentality. We were very lucky to... cross paths with them and uh and they were the first band to ever give us an opportunity to off the

demo yes that's true

they contacted me off the demo and brought us up to NorCal um before we even had a 7-inch show.

Who were other bands, Zach and Ryan, that when you put out stuff that showed you love, that you remember? Because I think that was always important when you're trying to start something, you're a young cat in a hardcore band, and people kind of give you attention. Were there any bands that you remember, fuck, this person was like... Besides Kill Your Idol?

Yeah, well, I remember Mike Hartsfield and Rob Moran. Rob Hartsfield of Outspoken and Rob Moran of Unbroken both being... Very supportive off the demo, and that felt really good because I respected both of them. As far as other bands, Modern Life is War, before they did

anything, I

think we played their second show ever, their first real show. And they were good. They were so good already. They were good. But they brought us to Marshalltown, and they ended up being really close friends of ours that I still love and am in touch with to this day. And then also Holding On. They were another band

that we were playing. Oh, Holding On was great.

We were very, very close with.

They were super cool.

Yeah, a lot of kinship with them.

It's funny because I don't care about the fact that he's played shows with Bane or Strike Anywhere or Give Up the Ghost, whatever the fuck you want to call it, American Nightmare. I care about those little bands that really just, I don't know, they were just our friends, man. They were just fucking cool. Down to earth. Didn't care about... Being popular, nothing. Even though those bands that I just said are actually great bands. Well, the Bain guys were really great, too. They were really cool.

I don't know. It's hard to explain. Well, we didn't spend as much time with them. If we did, then we would have ended up liking them just as much because they're genuine, nice people. No, they're super nice. And actually, Matt Pike, this is on our final U.S. tour. Matt Pike, who's a Booker out of the Boston area. He saved our ass. And again, this is a thing of how we talked before about putting in the work. A lot of bands...

And they

were going somewhere else. And then it was like, oh, we had our own show in Alabama when they were playing somewhere else. And it deviated off and on. But I had to ask Matt Pike, dude, can we get on these shows? And he was like, yeah, of course. No problem. Again, it was us putting in our work. So he knew I wasn't scamming him. And I wasn't. And again, that's someone like... Like the Dave Hart thing, like he really saved our ass.

the only one. I didn't drink because I knew that I had to drive that night. It's like, okay, I got to serve it. Oh, dude. I

got this. Fuck! It was like Disneyland. Yeah, and it was all like really

good beer. I mean, that was... Our last show with Bane on that tour was in Atlanta, I think. Yeah, yeah. And that was actually a really good show. There was like fucking nine bands played that day. Damn. And it was fucking hot. That was the day we went to Abdullah... And we met Abdullah the Butcher. Oh,

sick. Yeah, we went to Abdullah the Butcher's restaurant. It was

sick. Okay, so we went to the greatest rib joint in the world, right? The funny

thing is we had two choices. It was really hard because we were like... do we want to go to Jack Daniel's factory? Do we want to go to Abdullah Butcher's restaurant? And I was like, well, I don't think I'm ever going to go to Abdullah Butcher's restaurant again. Like I might go to Jack Daniel's at some point, you know? So we went to Abdullah's and yeah, he advertises on the, on the top of the fucking, it's a converted house and it's like greatest barbecue ever.

We walked in and he just knew like he knew. Well, because we're

the only white people.

It was a, it We were the only white dudes in the whole joint, right? And that day he just put us all in headlocks, took pictures with us. And then I remember being in his joint and I go, oh, somebody just got murdered on Commodore Street. Huh. Didn't we just pass that street? It's like the corner right there. Holy shit. And then we saw like ambulances like, dude, somebody just got fucking murdered right there. Yeah. His

restaurant was in the hood. But yeah, that show was great. And there was something weird that night too. Like, I think the drummer of Bane, like, didn't he go for a walk and then they couldn't find him? He was, like, gone for a long time. That's right. And they were like, oh, shit. Like, what happened to the drummer of Bane? Like, he got back, like, right before they played. Like, they were looking for him and, like, getting worried, you know? Like, because he just wandered

off. He's done that, too.

Well, I got lost. When was this? That was that night of that Christmas Addicts show. Hydesville, Maryland. Yeah, it was just, like, some neighborhood. Like, you know those neighborhoods that's, like... I don't know. They don't make sense. It's not a grid. It's like all the streets are curvy. There's lots of stop signs and shit. And we got directions to go to 7-Eleven and we just walked for like... I don't know. We thought we were following directions. We couldn't find 7-Eleven.

Yeah.

We didn't have the address on us. The address is inside the van. You know? So it's, like, even if, like, someone was, like, hey, like. What are you looking for? It's like, I don't know, the house we just played a show to. A single fucking dickhead from Christmas Addicts that didn't bother to fucking promote the show. And

he didn't even want to watch this. He just had to get caught. I'm like, no, shit, I can't

do it. Fuck, that's nuts, man. It was fucking crazy. I think that we just ended up like, I think we sat down for a little while, you know, like on a lawn. And we're just like. What do we do?

What time was this at? It wasn't that late. It was around like 11 o'clock at night.

Something like that.

Because I remember me and Aaron going, where the fuck is Zach and Robert? Yeah, we were gone for a long time. What the

fuck, dude? Finally, we were just walking, and we heard the gate of the Fields of Fire U-Haul like a block over. Because it was late enough that it was totally silent. And then we heard that sound of a U-Haul going up.

And

it's like, oh, shit. It's like that direction. And then we were able to find it. That's fucking gnarly. It was fucked

up. Is In Control, do you guys plan to, like, do, you know, bands kind of, and I think it's, I mean, I don't know, I don't know what you guys think about that, but a lot of bands that are playing again, were you guys planning to do shows again, or is that not?

Dude, I get that question all the time. Like, I'm in an hardcore bowling league right now, and I get people that I don't even know that come up to me and go, like, hey. When's the reunion show? Come on, tell me. It's like, dude, guys. That's it? The drummers in fucking San Francisco, the guitar players in fucking Long Beach, Zach lives in San Diego, I live in Oxnard.

Well, we're not a band.

We're not a band. But not just for an event. And if we do do a reunion show, people... What's the

event? Are you going

to pay me $2,000? No, it's

not about that.

No, no, no, I don't care about the money. Here's

the thing, we did a reunion show. And we, like anything, we take it very seriously. And we practiced for like three months before

that show. Every Wednesday night, we would drive to Irvine. And that's us driving to Irvine. That was the center point.

Me from San Diego

and him from Nard. Me and Matt from Oxnard. And we would meet in Irvine. So it's like, okay, every Wednesday, I would go to bed at 1 o'clock in the morning and then wake up at 5.30 to go to work, right? It's not that fucking easy to do. Plus you're blowing

a tank of gas on

it every two weeks. Don't get me wrong. If Zach said, hey, we're doing a reunion show next weekend, I'm like, okay, I'm in. But we can't just do that. We have to practice.

We have to practice because, again, we take it seriously. People hit me up all the time like, do you want to do a reunion for a beer release show? No, dude. Or like, hey, we're like... I don't know. I'm not going to mention everyone. But it's like we're not a fucking band, dude. Do you know how much work it takes to start? No, people don't. They don't. But if we're not a band to go from today to us being ready to play, it's so much work. It's not like, oh, it's just one night, dude.

No, we played less than that. No, we played four. We had to cut out the fourth

bracket. No, that's not true, Ryan. I'm pretty sure. No, okay. At the most, we played three brackets, and then we played spot songs after that. It's like, oh, we've got to play this

song and this song and this song. So we played three out of five, and then we still played a couple of songs after.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so it was like, fuck, dude, we practiced three months for that. So then we played that unannounced Shea Cafe show.

Yeah.

Just because that's the tightest our band has ever been. So it's like, we have to play this fucking set. And then we were going to do it again for one of the... I don't know. Jeff was going to have us do something, right? And it got canceled the day of. Yeah. So we did that free Camarillo show. Yeah. And it's just like, fuck. That was the last. And then it was cool, but not everyone knew about it. And I want to be inclusive.

five years ago.

Yeah, it's not going to sell out. You know way in advance. So if you want to see it, you can come see it. And that's like a wrap. Because I don't know. I mean, look, Jeff Hershey is one of the most reliable people there is. He's a fucking G, especially in the promoting shit. And his show fell through the day of the show. I don't know. I don't want to spend that much time on something that's going to fall through. And there's no point for it anymore. I don't know. Live in the now.

good bands. I've got a funny story for you. Ten years ago, in 2009, when we did that first reading show, Zach called me. He's like, all right, look, dude. The day before was a Friday. That was a Saturday. It was December 9, 2008. No, it was December 5th, 2009. Okay. So the day before, he's like, hey. December 12th, 1492. December 5th, 2009. No, no, I'm talking about the first. December 17th, 1987. Let me get into the story. Zach goes, all right, look.

would

have been sick. That would have been like, this is fucking great. That would have been

a proper In Control reunion. If this many people liked us back then, we wouldn't have broken up, people.

Thanks a lot, pros.

Oh, man. Besides the members of the band that you guys had, were there, I mean, it was pretty prolific because everybody, you're doing Retaliate and you're working on another album. How is that looking, Zach?

Well, the greatest band on earth is going to put out our fourth great album. I don't know. It's awesome. It's so fun. I've been playing with those guys forever. I mean, Retaliate is the final control lineup.

Retaliate is basically in control without me. I mean, if you think about it, yeah, it

is. Well, we drop-tuned, so it was a different take on it. Yeah. But yeah, it carries on, and so whatever. I don't know. I love to do it. I can't stop. But Retaliate is not a full-time band or anything either. We play like twice a year. I just like to have it be a passion project, and those guys are some of my best friends, and I like to play music with them, and I love to see them. And every time I see them, it's like I'm so happy.

As

I

said, your family. No, but, like, you know, like, it turns into something that you have to do and then it's like, well, if you're doing something because you have to do it, is it... Is it really like pure art anymore? And so like we get to do retaliate fully on our terms. And I mean, there's not a show that goes by that I don't realize how lucky we are that we're able to like have a fan base with being so inactive. But, you know, maybe the sincerity comes through as well.

Come on, man. I

know

you don't want to suck your own dick, but I'm

just saying. Even this. Even the podcast, man. It's still like output.

Yeah. You

sound like my wife, Zach. Like, hey, sweetie, you want to get laid? That's like something I have to do.

No. In what aspect?

You said it was like a burden.

The band. In control was at the end, for sure. It

was work.

It really was work. Yeah, it was work. And it was hard to not keep people together, and it's hard to line up. I know. It's hard to line up everyone's wants and needs at the same time. I mean, think about it. Basically, the reason why In Control broke up was because we were going to do a record on Reflections, and we were going to go tour Europe. And the day that we were going to fucking buy our airline tickets, our fucking drummer quit the band.

scenarios. That goes back to your point. When you're in a band with people... It doesn't become fun anymore. Oh,

yeah. It's like a relationship. It's like,

oh, we're going to start a band. It's going to be fun. No, now it's work. And now, like, me and Zach used to hate each other. Obviously, we loved each other the entire time, but when you butt heads, it's like, fuck, dude.

And then you have a vision. It's fucking hard. You're taking it serious. It's not just bullshitting. Yeah, I mean, we have something that matters.

I mean, it's basically like me and Ryan have a child together, right? Yeah, it is. It is. And we never really wanted different directions for it, I don't think.

No.

But like

I said, if you wanted to do a radio show tomorrow, I would say, okay, I'm in. I'm not going to say no, but...

But it's like there's no point. Yeah. Like for what? For fun? Yeah, yeah.

I got to sing a song a couple months ago for – it was a Dead Heat. It was Omega Point.

Yeah, I think I

– They played Hometown Pride. And that was like – That was a fucking blast. I just sang one song. And the next day, I couldn't turn my head. My neck was so sore. It's like, holy fuck. I just sang one fucking song and I can't even move. You

haven't done any projects, Ryan? No, no, no. I'm

too fucking busy, man. I'm retired. But now's the time. Someone should put together a band.

I wish somebody would have loved us as much then as they do now because if they loved us then, we could have got another drummer to go to fucking

Europe. Fuck! I know. That would have been really... That was like a big goal that we didn't get to do.

Yeah. And it was a bummer. I've never left the continent. I've never been to... I've never been to Europe. I've never been to South America. I've only been to Canada, Mexico, and USA. But if we would have went to Europe... Not only were we going to Europe, but we were going to make enough money to get gas to go to the next city. It's like, fuck. That's fucking kind of a dream.

Damn, that would have been sick.

Most people go to Europe. It's always vacation. We're going to spend thousands of dollars, but we're going to experience all these things. We had a job to do. And I can't explain it to people. It's like, oh, man, it hurts so bad. But whatever. Can't change the past.

What are some final thoughts as you think about In Control and what it meant? Is there anything else that you want to say? Because I think what I wanted to ask was kind of those introspective questions. Because I think a lot of the stories came out in the first part of it. And I was thinking about the lyrics and what it meant. Because for me, that was what resonated, man. Those lyrics, thinking about it, singing them with friends, growing up, Milo, Danny, all these dudes, Javi.

have to say this, honestly, I did love the music. I'd love the lyrics. I love the work that we did, but what I really love the most is, was meeting all the people that we met. And I don't know. It's kind of hard.

Ryan misses Dave Bird. That's all

it boils down to. I love Dave Bird! Hey, I fucking picked that guy up and slammed him on the ground pretty hard. And then he speared me in the chest the next song. But I just loved all the friends that we gathered. It was just good times. But I did love Daybird.

I mean, we did our piece. We started, like I said, the scene was down. We put out a demo. We put out a self-release demo, self-release 7-inch. We went on a good independent label with Dave Mandel, who's one of the most awesome dudes. We never fucking took his money for granted. We never did anything negative. We always try to represent ourselves properly. We put this shit back on the map for our little piece of time, which was the five years. And it carried on after that.

it,

man.

Yeah, yeah.

Seriously. You know what? All the shows that we played, if people didn't like us, and I heard people talk shit about us, and I'd be like, you know what? I'd pat myself on the back, and I'd just walk away. It's all good. It's no

hard feelings. It's off to the jockers and the haters.

No, I have no problem with that.

It's all good. Yeah, man, that's the fucking jam right there, man. Shit.

That was one of the first songs Zach and Tony wrote together. Oh, dude. For In Control. Obviously not the first songs ever they were in. voice defiance

shit see now I want to keep on cause now I'm thinking about the anthemic songs man like which is another badass like thing that you guys did which one well like that song Crash and Burn a big fuck you no that was

that was Fuel

the Fire yeah Fuel the Fire oh okay dude that that anthemic shit was like that song Oh, dude. And then obviously Nartro, like another anthemic song. But yeah, that lyric, man. Hats off. Who was that? Who was the responsible for that? Of course I wrote that. Hats off to the jockers and the haters, man. I

think I wrote all the lyrics on the 7-inch.

Yeah, I think you did. No. There was one lyric that I wrote, and it was pretty shitty. What? It was for Let It Be. God damn it. It was the first line of the second verse.

How many of you took the time to vote? You didn't write that, Phil. I wrote that. Yeah, I did. I wrote that.

I fucking told you to write that. How many

of you took the time to vote?

Yeah, I know. No, no, no, no. What was the... No, dude, I'm telling you. I wrote that whole song for sure. I know, but I told you, like, hey, this is the song I want to talk about. I don't know. Whatever. Edit this part out. Fuck

it. Ryan, you can have it.

No, I'm telling you. I had something to do with that fucking song.

That's cool. We probably wrote it together. We probably wrote the second verse together. How many of you took the time to vote? We have the power. Take the time. That's what you wrote. You wrote, take the time to persuade family and friends. That's a good fucking

line. That's a good fucking line. I was

like, Zach,

don't

rob me

of this. Come on, I'm

telling

you something.

Dude, that's a good fucking line. Because that's what it is. Like, for, I mean, we're talking about, we're fucking a bunch of 20-year-olds. We're talking about local politics. I mean, that is how you change it. That's the grassroots. That's knocking on doors and, like, convincing people on how to, like, be on the righteous side of history. You know? Yeah.

At least you didn't have your lyrics totally rewritten. That happened to me. I'm not going to say who, man. Hey, man.

Two years ago, me and my wife on our anniversary, okay, we're going skydiving, you know. It's like, fuck it, we're doing it. We got to do this. We went 10,000 feet up in the air. We flew out of Camarillo and went to basically the rudder room in Holly Beach and then came back to Somos. And I looked at the entire Ventura County plain. There's actually still a lot of fucking farmland. I mean, there's like a lot of farmland. It's like, oh, fuck. Like, this is still a great place to live.

They heard the song

and they're like, oh, shit, we should. We should take this. We should do that. Let it be. Let it be, man. Let it be. Let it be. Oh, by the way, that was the scariest fucking thing I've ever done in my life.

That was like the ultimate stage dive then, huh? That was probably one of the best I've ever done.

Even though I had to get strapped to next to a guy. Don't sport any wood, all right, when I sit my butt on your lap. He's like, hey, bro, I think I'll fucking manage, okay? You ain't that good looking.

Man, well, just fucking thank you, man. Because, I mean, again, I know nostalgia, right? It's bullshit because you're right, the present. But, man, I mean, again, that's just like a... I can't

talk too much shit on nostalgia. I mean, we took the logo of Stalag. Our whole band was referential.

Yeah. Just those memories, man, walking from Robert's house to Amici's. It was just like a movie, man. I know that's one thing Milo and I talked a few days ago. Shout out to Milo in Utah. And we were just like, man, we were all very lucky to grow up like this and then have that time and have you guys. We didn't have Stat, we didn't have Dr. No, but we had you guys. So then for us that were in that era, like in high school, we would go and hang out.

Well, didn't Robert work at Armando's?

You weren't lucky enough as Ryan and Jeff Hershey for having someone give you the what happens next on cassette

tape. Dude, my best friend's brother brought the Inca tree over to your tape. It was my brother's best friend, you asshole. That was my story because it's true. Oh, my God. I could go on. I could go on forever. And everybody says, oh, remember when's the lowest point of conversation? No, it's not. It's like my favorite. I love nostalgia. I love thinking back at what we did and what we were all a part of. I think it's great.

Anything else you guys want to add? Oh, I could go on to every. I know. Every

single one of these shows I could talk about for about a half hour. I

mean, I want to know justice, man. Product and control, life's hot, die hard youth. Was that at the Bakersfield? It was Jerry's Pizza. It was Jerry's Pizza?

Like, I didn't, see, I was like, shit. Dude, we played for 11 minutes that night. What the fuck? I actually timed it. We have the tape. I have the tape. We played for 11 minutes. And we had, I think, three brackets of three songs. And we were playing way faster than we usually played. We played for 11 minutes. I timed it. No, Just was great. Life's Hot was great that night. Die Hard Youth was... They're our brother band. I mean, if you think about it. They were great. Shout out.

That's insane. That's a short-ass set, man. Yeah, when I saw that, I was like, fuck, that's a fucking badass lineup. Product from Italy, too. What about the Last No Reply show? At the PCH? You're all in the picture in the back of the 7-inch for that limited edition. Yeah, that was another bad episode.

Oh, you did the trumpet for Life's Halt, right? The what? You did the trumpet

for Life's Halt. That was Life's Halt live show, yeah. I did taps. And I fucked up on the first note. I remember that. It was a good effort. And I did it in the key of A instead of the key of C. So I was totally wrong. But I fucked up in the first second, but then I nailed the end of it. I look back, I'm like, ooh, I could play that so much better now. That's that A for effort, dude. No, there was a couple people that were fucking stoked on that. Oh, yeah.

Well, that was true respect, right? Yep. What about the Intense Energy EP? Do you guys have the rest of that tape?

Oh, I still got the pictures all the time. Because there was more.

I had it

at some point.

Name all six bands

without looking at the list. It was over my dead body. You guys want to let Brian in? In control, lights off. Can you let Brian in? Shit, in control. Fields of fire. Fields of fire, lights off. Ben Edge got mad because someone staged O'Feet first and it comes out on the... I

can't remember. There was like, there was six bands. Die Hard Youth. It's all the bands. It was all of us. It was six bands. Whoever was on the 7-inch was on the show. Come on in, bro. And they all did...

Oh, shit.

They all... So are we going to end it on that? Yeah, end it on that. All

right, cool. Zach's like, dude, really?

Thank you. You did a good job. No, no. Yeah, good job. Thank you, Fernando. I wanted to get introspective because you guys matter. I could talk way more. I could talk for like four more hours. Oh, me too, man. I want to go home if I want. Tomorrow at 2 p.m. Part two. Oh, no, that's

part three, actually.