185 miles south a hardcore punk rock podcast
Hey everyone, welcome back. This is going to be week two of the Todd Jones Podcast. If you want to support the show, please like, rate, and review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And also, please share this with all your friends and family, and anyone you know who enjoys hardcore music. Or shit, I guess now it's heavy metal too. Todd's done it all. Yeah, and if you want to... Seriously support the show and toss down some of your money.
You can check out patreon.com slash 185 miles south. And that way you contribute a little bit of money every month to keep the cost of this show covered so we can keep it going for you. And with that, you can cancel any time or, you know, do what you do, man. Whatever you do to help out is much appreciated. I love you all. Here is part two of the Todd Jones podcast. So... What about the other guys? Like, how do they feel about, like, doing the tour when he's not? Yeah, man.
I mean, that's something.
Or they didn't know. I mean, Corey didn't know. And that's something, like, I always felt a lot of guilt about. Like, I didn't tell Corey. And Corey was, or is, like, at that time, definitely, like, one of my main dudes. You know what I mean? Like, me and him hung out a lot. Yeah. I think he was staying at me in my apartment for a while. And it was just like, I didn't tell him because... you know, I didn't really want to tell anybody. I just wanted to fucking get this thing.
I wanted to play these shows and get out of the way because I knew it wasn't going to fucking last. You know what I mean? I was smart enough to know. It's like a straight edge band without a straight edge singer isn't happening. Yeah. And did you not consider replacing him? Oh, fuck. No, no, no way. No, no, you can not Ryan. I mean, dude, come on. You've seen Ryan. He's a fucking great front man. You can't fucking replace Ryan.
He's a good front man.
Mm hmm.
um did you guys ever take any shit for like people thinking he was emulating Wes too much
oh um nah I don't think so I mean I didn't I don't like nobody actually ever said anything I think it was people on message boards probably made fun of us yeah but those I mean they probably had a different agenda in the first place
didn't you get mad at someone like someone had a fucked up shirt like wasn't there a carry on the line oh okay yeah so
you got mad at someone yeah definitely I mean someone made a shirt someone from Florida made a shirt is that on that tour Like you saw it? No, this happened like four years later. Oh, four years after. Yeah, this is like after the fact. Someone made a shirt that had the Carry On logo from the line is drawn 7-inch and put like three Coke lines and razor blades that the line is drawn.
And like, yeah, I mean, that fucking bothered me because Carry On is something that like, you know, I have a lot of like fond memories of. And it's like, you know, you don't ever want to see someone... someone disrespect your shit like that. That sucks. Like make a shirt dog with your logo on it. And it was still like sore. It's before you did the reading show. I mean, I'd still be mad about it now. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Like it's a pretty good, I mean, I would, I would, I would not like contact the person and threaten them. No, no, no. Or find them or whatever. But I, but like I would take a personal and I would remember who that person was. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's a fair dig. That's fine. Yeah. But whatever. I mean, yeah. I mean, you know, But it's also like go back to talk about like the dude from Teamwork. Like why take the time and the effort to put out that negative energy? Like you're going to go and design and then print a shirt to talk shit. Yeah. That's pretty like extreme. Like why don't you like – Call your mom and tell her you love
her. I
mean, that's
one way to look at it. I get it, man. I get it. Because the thing is, a lot of straight edge people and a lot of hardcore people feel slighted because they did like the record. And then fucking by the time they get to the end of the record, someone's already telling them the singer sold out. As a straight edge hardcore person, you'll be like, what the fuck? This isn't real. This sucks.
That's a huge fucking... diminishing thing for a straight edge hardcore band like I know it makes it look like you know did you even believe these words at all you know I mean I know Ryan did but I just he just it is so close though like the recording to breaking up yeah absolutely but what I mean that's it's just what happened it's how it was and that doesn't make it any less that doesn't make it any better for me no your situation is fucked I mean like all of ours was it wasn't just me it was
me and Corey and Lucas you and Corey but like you know it Yeah. So I
don't know, man. Okay. So let's move a little out of like the timeline and let's wrap up, carry on. Okay. So it's how many years later you do, you called them the last shows.
Yeah. So we, we, we build them as the last shows. We don't want to call it a reunion because at that time, especially a lot of bands were getting back and doing reunions. Like we were like, look like, okay. So you asked when it was, it was the weekend of July 4th in 2005. It was somewhere in that timeframe. I think it was like July 5th and 6th.
So like four years after the... LP came out yeah that's right yeah about four years after the album came out we did the showcase theater and two nights two nights yeah they're really great shows yeah that's so sick yeah dude I mean we I mean that's the thing it's like we we were aware of of you know like people like carry on and you know nobody really got a chance to see us after that album came out so it's like you know we thought well we can do two shows let's just try two shows and they both
sold out and they were both a lot of fun they were great you know I can't speak for anybody else but you know that those shows gave me the closure I needed like you you know, any sort of negative feelings I had or any, you know, towards, towards Ryan for not being straight edge or, or just really at all. You know, I, I, I, I got a chance to play those songs again and, and it was fine. It was good. I liked it. It was great. But yeah, we didn't want to call it a reunion.
It was just, we just called in the final shows.
Yeah. It's, it's weird though, that many people showing up to like support something when like the lyric, like it's, I don't know, like, he did break edge and you're singing the songs and it's like, this is weird. And so there's like that many people signing off on like, this is cool. Well,
I mean, you could look at it that way, but I think it has a lot more to do with the fact is that, you know, whatever, you know, Ryan felt about straight edge, um, when he was straight edge, I mean, was pure and it was real. And, um, And that record is powerful regardless of the fact is if he wasn't straight edge after it came out or not, you know what I mean?
And I think that's really, that's really all it comes down to is people wanted to see those songs played live by the band that made the songs. You know what I mean? I don't, you know, you bring up a fair point. It's like, like people are coming here and singing along to these songs that are overtly straight edge, uh, with someone who's not straight edge, but it's just, you know, I, I, I think it had just more to do with a more primitive feeling of just wanting to see those songs.
I understand both sides of it. It's a really weird thing to think about, to me. Because it's like... I don't know. I care about lyrics a lot. And hardcore is supposed to be more than music, right? It's more than just... Well... I don't know. I mean, I guess it really depends on how people think of it. Like there are a lot of people that like, it's just, I like hardcore music. That's the music I like. And the lyrics can take a fucking backseat. And that's,
no, that's a totally honest way of looking about it. You've always been passionate about the message. Yeah. And yeah, I'm away. And I agree. And so that's just weird to me that
like, I don't know. It's, it's like part of me, like when that happened and it was so big and like, no one really cared. It was like, Dude, part of hardcore is dead right now because the lyrics don't fucking matter. Oh, I see what you're saying. And then it's like, if you pull out the lyrics and the sincerity of hardcore mattering, and then it's just a style of music, then, I don't know, it's a completely different thing.
And
so, I don't know. I mean, that was just my take on it. Although... Man, I'm so sympathetic to your situation of not having closure. I cannot imagine doing the full record and not being able to play off it.
Yeah,
that's fucked up. That was a bit of a
shitty thing. But
that's my take, and I'm only one person. No, I
got you. I mean, unfortunately, I don't know if unfortunately or not, it's just kind of how it is. I agree. I think anybody coming from the hardcore punk scene, I think you should fucking stand for something. Whatever you stand for is what you choose. Yeah. I mean, just like I said, I think it's just a testament to the fact that, yeah, hardcore and punk rock, you should definitely stand for something. But it is also a testament to the fact that sometimes some of this shit is just music.
Sure.
You know what I mean?
I mean, there's nothing wrong with just writing music that kicks ass. Yeah, yeah. Right? I know what you mean. But it is one of those reasons why I feel like everyone over... maybe 35 in hardcore. Like now we all like universally think like earth crisis rules, you know, like even if like, even if you weren't like super, like a super earth crisis fan in the nineties. Yeah. In fact, a lot of us didn't like this stuff. I wasn't a huge earth crisis fan.
I love the firestorm seven inch and that's about it. But it's like, man is like a hardcore dude that like I'll turn 40 in January. Like to look at like that commitment and like, Those dudes are the shit. Those dudes are still vegan straight. Yeah.
Yeah, they are the shit.
Yeah. And it's like they were fucking right. And so when people were taking swipes at them in 94, 95, it's like, dude, they proved you wrong. Yeah. That's so fucking dope. Yeah, I agree. You know? Anyway. Absolutely. But that's so dope. Two nights selling out Showcase. Yeah, it was a dream. For you, especially when it's like, I want to play Showcase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And you felt like you couldn't break out of the PCH. So that's a heavy win.
Now, how soon after the Carry On breakup do you do Terror?
Oh, dude, like that month. That's so sick. Dude, so what happened was Carry On played our last show in December.
And you already had Nick Jett. Nick Jett, did
he play the East Coast tour or did he only play the Troubadour show? He played the East Coast tour. So what happened is... When Carry On got home from recording our album, Lucas called and said, hey, I'm out of the
band. Right.
I think his goal was just to record an album, which is fine, whatever. He did a great job. Yeah, he did. And then we met Nick through Sean Grind, me and Corey, somebody me and Corey are friends with, or we used to hang out with a lot, at least at that particular time. And because they were in a band. Sean and Nick, I think they went to high school and or were in a band. Okay, I saw their band play
Headline, and I can't remember the name. Oh, my God, really? Yeah, because they covered Strife.
I was like, oh, shit,
covering Strife.
You're thinking of Anthony, the little Anthony. Maybe. He was in a band. I saw Nick's band pre. I think Nick was in it, too. Okay. Uh, dude, that was kind of, that's kind of hazy, but we, I met Nick through Sean and we, you know, tried him out and he's a great drummer and he played with us. And, and, and so, yeah, Nick went on that tour and played our last show with us. And. And I think December 10th was the last show at the troubadours, at least, you know, sometime around that era of December.
And at the time, John LaCroix from 10 yard fight was living in California and had a website, had his own like website, like johnlacroix.com or something. And it said, I'm living in California. Me and Scott Vogel are doing a band. We need a drummer. So I hit him up and I was like, Hey dude, uh, I've got a drummer who's fucking awesome, but do you need, but you know, I, I made it seem like, yeah, exactly. I was like, what do you got going on?
And, and, uh, that was like, dude, that was like within a week of, of carry on breaking up. And, uh, and we got together with Scott, John couldn't make it. And, um, And me and Nick and Scott got together, and that month, so December of 2001, we just got together and decided, yeah, okay, we're going to do this band.
Did you jam, or you just got together
and talked?
No, we jammed. So was your first jam a three-piece?
Yeah, Scott, yeah. John couldn't make it. He was somewhere else. I think he was outside of California or outside of Southern California. Yeah. The three of us were there and we played some music together. And I don't think any actual terror tunes that became terror tunes came out of that session. But, you know, we all got along well and we all liked the same. We liked a lot of same things and got along.
And so Scott was living in Arizona and he drove out to, you know, where Nick live in Granada Hills. And we decided we were going to do this band.
Yeah. And then does John ever practice with you or you get the Shark Attack dude?
Um, well, John never ended up being in the band. I think we, I think we, I think Scott, what happened was a Scott came out from Arizona twice in a row and Scott or, and John wasn't able to, to make either of those rehearsals. So I think we just decided to move on without him.
Yeah.
Um, so it was a three of us. And then I was living with Matt Smith who played in shark attack and rain on the parade. And, and, and, you know, we, we got him as a bass player and we wrote the demo, played some songs, went on tour. Did he play on the Rain on the Prairie at 7 inches? He didn't play on the Body Bag record, but I think he was in the band for the Full Speed Ahead record, yeah.
Did he know your nickname for a while was Body Bag? Oh, no, I didn't think so. That wasn't something that I really carried with me after. I should ask you, we should have talked about that. Going back to 96, 97, the Youth Career Revival, that record hit with you.
Two records did. That record particularly and the Floor Punch record. I got those records, I can't say back-to-back days, but back-to-back mail days. I got the Floor Punch 7-inch on December 26, 1996. I got that in the mail, and I got the Rain on the Parade 7-inch December 24. So right before and after Christmas. And those records, yeah, you're right, they made a profound... impact on me as a 15-year-old kid.
They're the wildest and the most catchy,
don't you think? I never thought about them in terms from wild, but Rain on the Prairie definitely was more choppy than all the other bands from that era. They're definitely faster.
Yeah, but the Floor Punch too, they'll do a crazy beat straight into just a sing-along, and it's like songs over. Where every other band, I mean, compare that to In My Eyes, those guys are writing real songs. Or like In Sin, or any of those bands like they're trying to write well thought out songs
yeah floor punch was more you could tell floor punch was more about energy but also like through the vocals and the lyric patterns and everything else like they were super fucking catchy songs yeah and you're right ensign and in my eyes were more of like your traditional folk verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus over songs yeah floor punch were just fucking you know about munching pretty much
yeah and then Rain on the Parade was like what the fuck is this like every song is like pretty different
yeah I agree with
that
yeah that's
sick yeah
yeah but like those ones like really resonated yeah I got Hardware Fanzine number 8 from Fred from Fred Hammer and I read that cover to cover and ordered some records out of that and I ordered those records out of it yeah
sick so sorry jumping back to Terror yeah no problem okay so you get Matt Smith Yeah. And now you're a band. And now you're jamming.
Yeah. We played our first show at Pat's Warehouse April 26th of 2002. Yeah. Which was also Piece by Piece's first show. That's right. Yeah. No.
Yes. I'll bet you a dollar, fool. It's crazy because it's like both bands' first shows and Piece by Piece headlined. And I missed Terror and I saw Piece by Piece because Joe Revis was printing the... I think the In Control Plays the Hits inserts, he worked at Kinko's. Yeah, you're right. And Terror played early. Yeah,
I guess you're right. And I missed it. Yeah, I have pictures from that show. I actually saw them the other day. Yeah, you're right. Piece by Piece, Terror, and maybe one or two other bands. Yeah, playing at Pat's. Super
sick. Yeah, man. I
mean, that's the thing. Like, Carry On had a bunch of hype and everybody was super. One thing about Terror that was like the perfect storm was, and now they're not as segregated as they were then. I think you'll agree, but like, Scott had the crowd coming from the buried alive scene, the more heavier hardcore scene. And I had the crowd coming from the more faster carry on type scene.
And I think that like those things combined, like I think people, I don't know, got people super interested in the band super fast.
It's weird that it was like kind of different, but I feel like the, the, the, the big breakthrough on that stuff was being, I knew in the death threat LP scene,
Oh, yeah. Bridge 9. I think a lot of it was that. I think Bridge 9 made it acceptable for people who were in the youth crew to like Death Threat. We liked Death Threat. Of course, but we were different.
We're from Oxnard. We're not following what's okay to like. No,
that's
true. It's totally different. But yeah, I think the B9 made it acceptable for... straight-laced, hardcore kids to enjoy something that's a little on the tougher side.
Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
Because do you remember, you had to remember, Deathwreck came through and they played Skate Street. Yeah, to nobody. To nobody. I was there. To like 15 people. Yeah, that was
August of 2000. That was their first tour.
Right. And then the record gets released on B9. It gets re-released, right? Because it came out as a CD first. That's right. Then B9 puts out the vinyl. That's right. And next thing you know, Deathwits touring with American Nightmare. Yeah. And they can do 150, 200 kids. Crazy. I mean, literally, B9 gave them the... It's okay for safe-living white people to like
this stuff. I think it has a lot to do with that, but also it has a lot to do with the times. Yeah. I think... Because American Nightmare was the first band that was like... I think it was the first band that would have been in the same world our bands played with that actually broke out and had more appeal outside of just your standard DIY venues and everything like that. They were kind of people who were into other more bigger types of hardcore, found out about them and liked them.
I firmly believe Terror is the band that kind of united... the more, um, you know, heavier hardcore with the more faster hardcore sound in regards to our culture, our circle of people. Cause that's when you started seeing like, I don't know. I feel like more, more, um, faster hardcore bands got more attention during that era. And same thing with bands like death red, just like you're putting out like 25 to life.
We, we saw them play at the, at the barn and, and, and, and, uh, JP's barn and Ojai and like, 1998, I mean, there was only, like, 40 or 50 of us, and it was an amazing show. Yeah. But I feel like even after that tour, like, in the early 2000s when they were touring more, they had, like, bigger crowds. Yeah.
Yeah, I would agree. I mean, Terror, I mean, what can you say about them? It's, like, kind of the glue of everything, right? Kind of now, like, they do, like, mold, like, all those scenes together. And it's because... They were a unity band, for sure. Yeah, and it's so... so active and like everyone i don't know everyone still follows hardcore right they're not they're not washed up no not at all to a man no like not washed
up no i still i still listen to every terror record that comes out and like it i listen to every terror record as well
good band killer band one of the best bands yeah um so you do a demo yeah it was that like it was a cdr demo
Yes, so at the time, very of the time. Very of the time. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Well, because people at that time were talking, so we're talking spring 2002, like not everybody, I didn't even know what an iPod was until like January 2003. Yeah, I think
that NoMotive, they went on tour in 2004 and wanted to use my van and they bought me an iPod to rent my van. That's awesome. Yeah, so like that's, this is weird, dude. I can track all this shit, buy my releases because I never tried to do anything like to be cool I didn't care like the aesthetic of putting out like stuff this is literally like the ease of putting it out so in control demo is 99 that's cassette cassette yeah retaliate demo is 2002 CD CD yeah and then like I got an iPod in 2004.
So that's the lineage of tape, CD, MP3.
Well, that's when I think 2004 and 2003, and especially 2005, was when I felt the mass majority of people got hip to downloading and using stuff on their iPod.
That's high-speed internet time, I think. I was behind the curve. I didn't get high-speed internet until, I think, 2006. People had it in 2004 and shit. I had it in 2000. That's sick.
I remember when I lived in North Hollywood like I wanted to download Freebird and like if I had like the like the free internet like if you're low income whatever like the dial up shit and it literally took like nine hours yeah I mean yeah I remember those days it was so worth it though the second half of that song is a ripper yeah it is absolutely the first half is whatevs I love it a lot you do?
oh yeah yeah that's fucked up dude but on the 45 like they cut out all the good shit It's just the first part. I don't know. I'm not that bad. I want to put out a 45 of only the second half of Freebird. The part that rips. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when it kicks in. So the demo, is that the same recording as like the Tucson
7-inch? No. So the demo was the demo. We recorded that in April. And it was another thing. We drop off a DAT and… you know, by, I think we bought like 500 CDs and we made the covers of Kinko's Matt Smith designed them. We printed them out, cut them ourselves, package them, mailed them fucking everywhere. Yeah. Like, like I know Scott mailed like a box of a hundred to Philadelphia just to give people. And it was, um, we were just getting that fucking thing out. Um, But then we did that 7-inch.
At the time, there were two new songs, and we had our buddy Scott press that up on his label, and that was meant to be a small one-time pressing. On Takeover? Yeah, Takeover Records, Scott's label. And then... And then when it came time to do an actual record, we just compiled all the songs we had. So that's four from the demo, two from that two-song 7-inch. And then we had three songs that hadn't been recorded yet when we were at Mars. We went to go record them for Lowest to the Low.
Now, Lowest to the Low is nine songs. And two reasons why it wasn't 10 songs was I was insecure about making an album at that point for Terror. And I didn't think Terror as a band, we were at a point where it's like we should have made a demo and just came out with an album. I thought like a gradual build should have been like an EP. So it's like, all right, well, let's just record all the songs we have. We wrote the song Low So The Low. in Nick's studio before going out there to record it.
And I think we finished it at Mars musically. So we only had nine songs. When we recorded Lows to the Low, those were the only nine songs we had. Otherwise, I wish we would have wrote a 10th song. Had that been a 10-song album or whatever.
Yeah. And you go to Mars to try to get that OLC sound.
Yeah, basically. But when we got there, we learned that the drums weren't even recorded there. Where were they recorded? Some other studio. Like that... I think there was two Mars locations, and the one that we recorded at was the second one, and OLC was recording Kramer and Society as that place was getting built up. Oh, so that place is just gone. Yeah, I don't know about the first one at all, but the dude Bill Karecki, I believe the story is, was in between studios, so they did the drums.
at some studio and then they recorded everything else at, at, you know, wherever Tara record low solo. And so it's some city called Strongsville. I think it is. There's city is called Strongsville. There was a city. Yeah. In Ohio, that should be like Strongsville. I think that's where more, I think that's actually like the city where Mars is. That's the
hardest fucking hardcore scene. It's such a great, it's such a great phone. Yeah, exactly. Dude. Um, You can't get that Chubby Fresh sound, though, because he plays... He's like doing that cheat, like the battery cheat.
He's not a good drummer. Chubby Fresh wasn't a good drummer, but he played with energy, and he did good. He did him, and that's what mattered. But yeah, he was what they call the cheat beat, where they hit the snare and the hi-hat at the same time, as opposed to hitting the hi-hat double time.
Yeah. But it's so meaty and...
Chunky. Powerful.
Yeah.
It had energy.
Yeah.
I mean, dude, the drums on... Yeah, we could talk about Crime and Society. That would be a whole other podcast, which I would not be afraid to do.
Well, how did they... Because you were... I mean, but you were trying to replicate the sound, so you
should talk a little bit about it. We specifically... I'm sorry. Yeah. We specifically went to Mars because we were super into Integrity and One Life Crew and whatever other Cleveland band, Ringworm, The Promise. So
did you ask
them how they got that... You know what, dude? I'll tell you exactly what we did. We went there and we played them Hatebreed Perseverance and we said we want it to sound sort of like this and all the other shit you did because Perseverance had just come out at the time. And we loved that record, not just the songs, but the production value, which is insane because I look back now and that record doesn't really sound that good compared to other Hatebreed records. Really? My opinion, yeah.
Like the bass response isn't really that good. But, um, anyhow, we, we were really super into that record and we would like make it sound like one life crew and like this and like, like, um, it's not systems overload. Who managed the devil?
Yeah.
And, um, And, you know, the first two Earth, or Firestorm was recorded there as well. And we were just marks for that studio. You know what I mean? I mean, I don't know if we specifically said make us sound exactly like something, but it was just, it was, those were our influences at the time. We specifically, yes, we specifically went to Mars because of the lineage of bands that went there and because the recordings of those bands were so good.
That's funny that you say you wanted to sound like humanity, not seasons, or not systems overloaded. Systems overload.
I personally like, better the recording not the recording just as an album as music yeah i like systems overload better but um i agree but i think as sonically i do think humanity is the devil is a
yeah what is that that's like really hard to describe like just systems a little i don't know darker
yeah i would say it's darker a little not as bright not as bright and not as um you can't really hear you can't hear things as well i'm really not good but
that's the closest one
to sounding like we'll see Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree. You're probably right about that. But one of the things Bill Karecki said about Systems Overload was, like, they were all super... Everything was, like, very super layered. And he said his quote was, it was like a forest of knobs. Like, I guess they were drunk and they were mixing it together. And it was just... Yeah. That record's great.
Yeah, so great. So you do those nine songs and it comes out. You do Bridge Nine again. That's right. Yeah, we were on Bridge Nine Records. And... You're just totally happy with his stuff, right? This is sick. Well, in regards to what? Your songwriting. Oh, the record? We love the record. What's coming out.
And also, do you feel a little validation that it's almost like you feel guilty that Terror is super popular off the bat, but it's like you kind of deserve it because you build up the carry-on shit, right? Oh, I see. And Scott deserves it from like a... a lifetime of bands as well.
Yeah, I mean, Scott was already like 29 years old. Yeah. Yeah, like we, like I was, I was like 20, 21. Scott was like 28, 29. Nick's like one year younger than me, so basically the same age. And we were, dude, honestly, I was just fucking psyched that I was playing big shows. Yeah. And everything was just a little bit easier. And the songs are good. I was psyched. We listened to that record.
We got that record and for some reason we had to travel back into Canada to go pick up Nick's double bass drum. And we listened to that record like three hours over and over and over again. Just in a row. And we were just like, fuck. Like we felt like, I think we knew we made something like pretty fucking awesome.
Yeah.
You still feel like that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think I, I, I hold. When's the last time you listened to it? Probably five years ago. Yeah. That long? Yeah. I just, I just haven't listened to it in a while. I just haven't, I guess I haven't had, maybe I'll throw it on the car on the way home. But, um,
real hardcore kids listen to that record at least once every three months in perpetuity or you're fucking out
that record was I think at the time a huge cultural thing for hardcore it was a big thing I was just super happy to be part of it things were super easy for me
it totally bonded those two scenes like you said
which made
shows bigger but who better to do it Like it was like, Scott's the perfect guy and you're the perfect guy to do it. Right. I get supposed, I don't know.
I never
thought of
it like
that. Yeah. I mean, okay. And so now you take off on tour for like the first year or
straight right so yeah like so when me and something you've never done before that's that's right so when me and nick and and scott when we got together in december one of scott's thing was like i want to do a band like i just want to do this i want to do it full time you know we can do this and and you know of course to 19 year old me i was like fuck just go play hardcore and not have to have a job this is i'm definitely going to do that you know it sounds like a dream
yeah
and then we started touring and we didn't really stop but we started touring like june of 2002 we did a we did like a tour that took us into august we did another tour in the fall that was like a month long and then in january we did a month-long tour and then in april we did it felt like we went from april to the end of august and and i was just done i was like i do not want to tour full-time i do not like i do not like this lifestyle yeah yeah but to be like i mean it was just it I don't know,
man. Touring, touring, being on the road full time, man. I learned a lot about myself during that period. And that's something I've never really gone back on. Like I've never wanted to tour full time since then.
That's cool.
Yeah. You
figure it out quick
and you didn't lie about it. You didn't fuck anything up. Well, you know, I mean, I think those guys were a little bit, I mean, you know, the terror train was fucking going full speed ahead at that time. And I think they were just, I think for them it was like a knockback because it's like, you know, I mean, I hate to talk about myself at that time, but at that time I was kind of hot shit.
Like, I did the Carry On album, then we did a little solo, and it's like, oh, Todd Jones, the riff writer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, ugh. And I think at that time they were worried that me leaving the band was, you know, going to hurt them. And, I mean, we can see from right now it absolutely wasn't the case. I mean, Terror's been a successful band.
Well, because they just never stopped
writing and recording and hitting the road, right? Yeah, I mean, Tara's doing what they've always wanted to do, which is tour full-time and be an awesome hardcore band. So there you go, they're successful.
No, it's great that they were able to transition through all their lineups. They had a lot of...
They went through a lot of lineups early. They went through a lot of lineups early. I think they've had the same lineup now since... minus a bass player change since like 2008 yeah so that's pretty awesome like one member change in 11 years but um yeah man i mean i was just fuck man i mean i'm sure when i told those guys i don't want to tour full-time i mean they were just kind of like fuck what are we gonna do like yeah but they they were fine
is that before you go and do the second record
i told them in april april april of 2003 when we were at um a festival in europe and I can't remember which festival it was, but, um, I told him like, Hey guys, I want to sit down and talk. And I was like, I'm not, I'm not touring full time anymore. And at the time the arrangement was, is I was going to continue to help them write, which we did. And, um, up until the record that we put out after that, which was, uh, one with the underdogs.
So, so what happened was, is, is I was in terror as a touring member until the end of August of 2003. And, you know, between the time we recorded low solo, we were, uh, constantly trying to write songs. Um, we went into the studio in January of 2004 to, I think it was late January to record one with the underdogs. So we basically spent about a year trying to write a record in between touring and, um, you know, me and Nick and Carl and Scott were in the studio.
Actually, I don't I can't remember if Carl was there or not. Yeah, Carl was there. I went and recorded with Carl. Carl was at Sound City. We recorded that record at Sound City in Van Nuys, which is a... big major studio where Nirvana recorded Nevermind there, Fleetwood Mac recorded stuff, just whatever, just some fucking Hollywood studio, whatever, North Hollywood. But we went there and recorded there and did the record, and that was pretty much the end of my involvement in Terror.
After that record was done, I was like, eh, that was pretty much it. Did you write the whole thing? I mean, you know, me and Scott and Nick did. Was Nick writing riffs at that time? He wasn't writing riffs, I don't think. But they're
still there in the room approving or
defying stuff. Those guys were, well, I mean, they were, I mean, dude, I got a lot of raw ideas from Nick and Scott. Yeah. like a lot of stuff. Like for instance, um, we, it was always the three of us. We were the big three creative guys in the band during my tenure in the band. And that's not to take away from Doug or Carl or Rich or any of the other people who were in the band. It's just, it just worked out like that. That's how it was.
So, but we would be in the room and for instance, I would play something and Scott would be like, that's cool. Like let's, and I wouldn't even be thinking about it. You'd be like, let's try to do something with that. And you know, Nick would be like, well, I want to, I want to do a song that has a drum beat like this. You know what I mean? It was, it was definitely the all three of us in regards to writing Rip.
So I would say, yeah, I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm taking credit for it, but it was me mainly on the guitar writing all these guitar parts. Yeah, but they're coming with
ideas, but they need someone like you to filter them
through. I suppose so, yeah.
I mean, I need that. I have to talk to Roger.
I need it too still. I mean, when I'm doing nails, I have to take things to Taylor and Leon and everybody. I'm like, does this sound cool?
Yeah.
It's like, so of course, yeah. I mean, everybody needs a filter. You're right.
Yeah. So you leave, and then you do... You just kind of helping out your buddies? Like, were you in
internal affairs or you just... Oh, no. So, yeah. So, I wasn't... So, I joined internal affairs. I can't remember if I was living with Corey at the point, but I mean, you know, me and Corey always had like... We were always friends through all this stuff. And I think it was sometime in 2004. So, the same year I quit Terran. I think it was during the summertime. And... I think he needed a fill-in for a show. And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'll fill in. He's like, all right, cool.
So we rehearsed, went to the rehearsal, did the show. And I just told him, I'm not doing anything, man. He's like, I'll play with you whenever you want. So that's pretty much it. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I was in the band for sure. Yeah, absolutely. And you did
the first LP. Yeah,
yeah. The self-titled LP. Yeah,
yeah. On Malfunction.
That's right,
yep. Yeah. And then you get a little itch and want to do something a little more melodic and do Betrayed with Aram.
Yeah, I was doing internal affairs, and then when you and I moved in together, where was that place we lived off of? Victoria Arms. Victoria Arms. It's fucking weird over there now. Clarissa
Swallows over there. It's all like, I don't know, there's a whole shopping center right across
the street. No, it's super gentrified, but did that place get gentrified too, that apartment complex? It still looks like... Shit.
Well, it's just like, I don't know, it looks nicer, but the... I don't know. They paint it like white and yellow. It looks
stupid. Well, the Blue Ghetto is not the Blue Ghetto anymore. I know. It's like a tan ghetto.
I know. And I think it's condos across. What is it? Cause like that lucky shopping center is
gone. Yeah. They tore down lucky and all that shit. And it's fucking weird because that's where I like, that's where I would hang out. I spent a lot of time in that area of Oxnard, like that whole West side area is where I grew up.
Yeah. I got jacked like at least twice trying to have people pimp beer at that liquor store and like that lucky spot.
Oh my
God. You know, like here's 20 bucks, like, you know, like get us beer. Like the guy just runs out the back.
What an asshole.
Well, whatever.
But yeah. Um, so like 2005 me and a Ram, um, I was doing internal affairs and a ram. I don't know. We were good friends. I mean, we are good friends. And we decided to just do a band together. How
do you decide to do a band with someone that lives like 1,000 miles apart? That's a good
question. So I guess that was probably the first time I ever did that. And I think a big inspiring moment for me to do that was because I had just bought an Apple computer and it had GarageBand on it.
Okay, great. So technology facilitates
it. That's absolutely right. Yeah. I bought a little Apple and I was making my own songs in GarageBand.
Yeah.
And that's how we wrote that Betrayed record. Me and Aram would just send things back and forth.
Yeah. The first 7-inch?
Yeah.
Okay. That's so cool. Yeah. And how did you recruit the other guys for the band?
They were just our friends.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
But it's mostly just you're doing everything.
Yeah. I mean, Greg... It's me and a rammer doing everything, yeah. But I mean, I was writing the music of a rammer. The rammer was writing the lyrics. So if Greg and then who played drums? Todd Probosky, who was the current drummer from Champion at the time.
Okay. All right. Very good. And then, so you do a 7-inch, and that is on Bridge 9. And then you do the LP, and that's on Kyle Whitlow's label, Rivalry. Oh,
the LP was actually on Equal Vision, but at the time... Oh, sign of the times again. They're not doing vinyl. They weren't doing vinyl at the time, so rivalry... Or maybe they were doing vinyl, but it wasn't a big selling point for them. They were still slaying in CDs and doing all that. You got to do a
record on Equal Vision. That's
cool. I never knew that. Yeah, man. That was a really big deal for me because at the time of us getting into hardcore, there was Victory Records, Revelation, and Equal Vision.
Yeah.
Equal Vision now is obviously a little bit more indie rock leaning, and I think it was already... That way, when Betrayed was on it, but it was still like I wanted to put out a record on Equal Vision. You've never
done a Rev record, huh? No. You're going to, though, at some point,
huh? No.
Why?
Well, I mean, why? I'm in nails, and nails are never going to do a record with Rev.
You're never going to do another band?
No, I don't want to do another band. You
don't think you'll take a stab at doing a
more straightforward hardcore band again? I think Fireburn was my last shot at that. I think, you know, this is going to sound fucked up, but I think people need to go away. Like, wow. Well, I think, dude, you know, we've been talking about for the past almost two hours now of all these bands I've been in. It's like, I've been in so many goddamn bands. It's like, I've kind of had my shot to do, Fireburn was like my last shot to do like a fucking straightforward hardcore band.
Yeah, but it was very incomplete. Oh, it was incredibly incomplete. But I don't want to, I don't want to muck up the river with shit. You know what I mean? I think... You know, I mean, hardcore is not just a young man's game, especially now. But like, I just I don't know, man. I just don't feel comfortable like starting all these bands. Like, I feel like I've done enough bands.
I don't know. Do you ever get bummed out when like Matt Henderson starts a new band? No, fuck no. Exactly. So what
the fuck? You
know, it's like. Oh, SOS, what's this? Like, Matt Henderson's in a band? I'm buying it. Take my fucking money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Oh, he's in a band with Sergio? Take my fucking money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Like, no, dude. The iconic riff writers of hardcore need to carry on. It's not like you're the singer. You know, like, I... Yeah, if you wanted to do another band like Nails, but a different style.
Let's say you wanted to do Betrayed, and you're like, I'm going to sing and play guitar. That might be a little much. Yeah,
that would
be, yeah. But if you're playing guitar all the time, who gives a
shit? No, I don't feel like I'm above hardcore. Certainly not. Absolutely fucking not. And I don't feel like, I don't know, man. I just feel like maybe people are tired of hearing my name in that world. I don't know. I don't think so. I
think
you've got to eventually do
a
record on Rev, and then you've cleaned the slate. That'd be pretty cool. Everything. That'd be pretty cool. Snake Eyes did do a comp song on Revelation, so... Okay. I mean, that's not like... That's pretty close. That's like dipping my toes in the water. That's dipping the toes. Yeah, yeah.
So Betrayed... What's your take on the band?
Oh, Betrayed was a lot of fun. Betrayed... Dude, this is the thing. I've never done a band that was melodic. Yeah. And it's really... There's a lot more places you can go when you do melodic. You know what I mean? There's it where maybe it's just a little bit. I had fun doing it. You know what I mean? Like you do, um, you do the melodic band, the punk band, you play guitar and, um, Somali. Yeah. Somali pirates.
Yeah. Like, I mean, would you agree that you kind of have like a wider birth of course range in regards to playing guitar? Yes.
If you're going to actually, well, yeah. Aaron sang, Aaron sang, he had some notes, um, But yes, it's more melodic. But Somali is a little different in that, dude, if you're singing like I was singing and hitting notes, you can have a song with two notes and it's not lame. Yeah. No, no. I know what you
mean. It's real easy. It's easier to create maybe something more catchy or something more kind of like dig into as opposed to just like... Right. So for me as a guitar player, Betrayed was a lot of fun. And we... I mean, that first 7-inch that we did on Bridge 9, like, we wrapped that up in, like, a month. Like, from song 1 to song 6. Yeah, it's like
you're taking a stab at a new genre and just being able to knock it out of the park. Because, like, you have all these little riffy ideas from your whole lifetime.
Yeah, basically. And that was really, like, and that was fun. So Betrayed was fun, but, I mean, you know, I just needed to do something a little bit more, like, angrier. Yeah. No, for sure. For sure. It's kind of like internal affairs. Like when we're talking about internal affairs, like I wasn't, I was there and I definitely helped things along. But the thing is like internal affairs was mainly Corey's vision.
And I think you would agree that if you were to put, like, it sounds like Corey, like internal affairs is like, if you were to take Corey and put him in a musical form, like it would, that's internal affairs. And I didn't want to fuck that up. And it was kind of like, like, He's got this. Yeah, he's got this. All you can do
is
affect it. And he's rolling. I'm helping him push it along. I'm just helping him move it along. What can I do to support Corey and make sure Internal Affairs is seen the way he wants it to be seen? His vision is successfully put out there in the world. And then Betrayed, it was just like, we did this thing, it was fun, and it was cool. And I think we probably wanted to do a little bit more than we did, but it just came to an end. Yeah. After that, that was when I got into my late 20s.
I didn't really know what I was really doing musically. I knew I wanted to do something a little bit heavier, but I joined Blacklisted. Basically, what happened was, at the time, I think we're talking 2006, I got laid off my job, and I went to Australia indefinitely. I only ended up being there for a month and a half, but I told Corey, I was like, hey man, I'm going to Australia. And he's like, okay, well, you know, Internal Affairs has all these shows. We're going to get somebody else to play.
I was like, okay, fine. It was like an agreed upon. It wasn't like, you know, any weirdness or anything like that. And then when I came home, you know, that guy like had a role in the band. So who am I to say, like, you know, get the fuck out. I'm in the band. That wasn't happening. You know, I left and they filled the role. But I came back from Australia and I joined Blacklisted on second guitar.
Sick.
Yeah. I saw them at the Alpine and – I was buddies with them already, and I don't know how the conversation got started, to be honest with you. I'm looking for something to do. I may have approached them, but I was really into what they were doing. They had just recorded a seven-inch called Peace on Earth War on Stage. that hadn't had come out yet, but I heard it and I was pretty blown away by it. And, um, I joined the band for that year. So for 2007, I didn't work at all.
I got laid off of my job. I saved up, you know, some money and I was drawing unemployment. And for 2007, I didn't work at all. I just, I toured with blacklisted and, um, uh, recorded the record with them, um, heavier than heaven. Did you write anything on the record? No. No, that was another situation where it was like, you know, you guys are, you guys are, you know, you guys got this train moving. I'm just here to support, to help you keep moving. So
you did a whole year of touring. How would you compare that year of touring versus the Terror
year? So I would say that touring with Blacklisted was a lot different. Well, because, you know, for that whole year, I definitely didn't do anything other than tour with blacklisted, but really we only toured maybe like three or four months. Okay. Like it wasn't like every fucking month we're doing something. Yeah. It was basically me sitting on my couch in California and then flying out to Philadelphia or flying out wherever and meeting them.
Um, but, um, in October I flew out to Philadelphia and stayed out there for two weeks while they were, they already had like the majority of the record written. And I went to them to rehearsal and learn the songs while they were writing them. And, um, And I was just kind of there. You know what I mean? And I recorded on the album. And I don't know. It was a really awesome experience. But I was really inspired by the way that Blacklist had really looked at things. They were more kind of into...
It didn't seem like they were focused on a lot of things like a lot of other bands were really focused on that time. I think they were just really into being them.
Well, they came off very serious. I like that.
Yeah, that's true. They weren't there to fuck around. No, that's true. That's absolutely true. They, those, those guys definitely stuck to themselves. Like they were friends. They were all friends with each other, um, from, from just being in a band, but it extended upon that. I mean, blacklisted would show up to shows and not get out of the van. Like they, they were just like, and it wasn't just like, it wasn't like they were above anything. It was just like, dude, we were all friends.
Like, here we are. I don't need to go make friends at this show, or I don't need to go do this, or pimp my band out, or whatever. They had an approach where it was really just like, we're here, and we're not trying to shove this down your throat. If you want it, here we are. If you don't want it, fine.
You
know what I mean? And I really admired that approach to their band, and that's something that I took with me. So basically what happened is I recorded with Blacklisted, and I ran out of money. You know, and I didn't have a job. I saved up a bunch of money for my job before. And it kind of, you know, I came to a point where I had to make a decision. Am I going to go live in Philadelphia and do this band and being blacklisted? Or am I going to stay in California and get a fucking job?
I mean, those are my choices at the time. And I chose to stay in California and get a job. I don't necessarily know if anything was holding me back at that point to do that. I'm actually kind of surprised I didn't move out there and do the band with them now, talking back in retrospect. But I stayed home. You had to
do some of those yours.
You took a year off from doing some of those yours. You're absolutely right. I think that's what it was because that's what I did. I was living in Carpinteria, and I was planning on starting nails. I got a job, and I was planning on starting nails, and I started nails. That's what I did.
What was the idea behind it?
I wanted to do something that was like really antisocial sounding and really different than what was going on around me and my peer group and my cultural group. And I was like, well, I'm not going to do any more like just straight up fast, hardcore bands. I'm going to do something that's like noisier and I'm going to do something that's a little thicker and a little bit more. I don't even know. I just wanted it to sound ugly. Yes. I mean, so how do you how do you recruit for something like that?
Well, I mean, one thing was for sure was that I was going to sing. And that was out of necessity. It wasn't because it was something I wanted to do. Like, it was, you know, I've been in so many goddamn bands. Like, I want to have something that has longevity. And that was really the thing with it. Because I knew at that time that I still wanted to do music. And I was going to do music. And no matter what, I was going to do music, even if I didn't want to. It's just kind of what I did.
And I was like, well, I'm going to sing. That way, if I have a disagreement with someone... You're the band. Yeah, exactly. I had the hunger to be a band. It wasn't like it was just me and a couple of other folks. I wanted it to be a unit. It's a
solid insurance policy though, right? That's right. If you're singing and writing all the songs. That's right. You got very fortunate with the two guys you got. Absolutely. The insurance policy was there.
Yeah, that was a big part of it. So basically, in regards to recruiting, I just did kind of like local fellas. And we started the band with Tom Hogan on drums, who lived in Santa Barbara, and John. John, he's in Ohio. And I asked him to play bass because I just liked him. I knew he had a good heart. And he was a young guy. I mean, I was... I was 26 and he was like 18. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it, and it wasn't really that definitely a
generation younger than us because he like collects fields of fire records
and stuff. Yeah. He definitely a generation below us. And, um, and he, uh, and, and the thing is, it's like I, anytime I've ever like tried to recruit for a band or pick people for a band, it has a lot more to do with like, um, Not do I think this person's cool, but do I think their heart's in the right place? You know what I mean? Don't get to tell me I'm the one that chose Ryan to sing. There you go, man. And that was the only thing he had going for him. Dude, Ryan's an awesome frontman.
Maybe at the beginning it was a little like he found his own, I think. But it took time. Maybe it took time, yeah. Just like for anybody though, right? But I
wasn't choosing him based on being a front man because I didn't know what it was yet. He'd only done butt slam. How do you judge off him doing like a fucking rudimentary peanut cover? By moshing.
That's how, I feel like that's how a lot of singers get picked. Stage diving too, right? If you're like somebody who's awesome at stage diving or moshing, chances are some guitar players are going to come along and be like, hey, do a band with me. Yeah, that's true.
Well, Wes, he was a good mosher during the Tenor fight.
I mean, I think that was, yeah.
I mean, I think that was, that's a big reason I mean even George from Blacklisted he told me he joined Blacklisted because Tim one of their old bass players guitar players came up to him and said you're a great mosher would you want to sing this band I'm doing and it's like dude that's just how it is in hardcore you know what I mean if you got somebody who looks agile and could fucking look awesome in the pit why wouldn't they look awesome on stage let's just hope they have a good fucking voice
and a good stage presence
well yeah and also like if you're a person that participates in hardcore you're gonna know what other people are looking for yeah yeah right you're not gonna like you know, people that pass the mic on sorry and shit, like you're in on your fucking forehead and shit. It's like someone with confidence. Yeah. And that like has actually sang along before and you know how you want it delivered to you.
I want it delivered right in front of my lips about fucking, you know, about an inch apart, you know, don't hit me in the teeth. Don't hit me in the eye. Hit me in the teeth, please. You know, but yeah. So nail starts and how long do you jam before you record? Oh man.
And how do you explain what you're going for? I didn't know. I mean, I don't, I just, we, so me and Tom and me and Tom were jamming from like December, 2007. Um, we didn't record, I mean, we recorded demos by ourselves, like little four track things, but we didn't actually go into the studio to record an actual proper record, which was our first EP until December of 2008.
So, I mean, we were playing music for like a full year until we had, six songs that we thought were worthy of putting out on a record i mean i have like an probably an album and a half worth worth of demos from that time period that you know they were just trying to try and find our sound like i chose that hm2 pedal like because i thought it sounded disgusting not because i didn't want to sound like entombed i mean nails does not sound like entombed we don't have riffs that sound like entombed
we don't have patterns that really sound like entombed like we don't fucking sound like entombed but we will forever be compared to them just because the guitar tone is so similar which is fine i mean they're a great band i have no problem being compared to them but um yeah i chose that pedal just because it sounded fucking ugly and dirty and and i was like listening to a lot of fucking like japanese hardcore a lot of scandinavian hardcore a lot of stuff that's like way more fucking rougher than
your average youth crew hardcore that i the shit that i grew up on and i still love and um And I didn't really, you know, I didn't really have, you know, I just love that music. I was just fucking going for it.
And, um, that's the thing with starting bands and tell me if you agree or not, but like when you start a band, like when you're starting in control retaliate, you have this idea in your head and when it comes out and you have a recording of it, for me, it's never exactly like what I want it to be. But luckily, It turns into kind of its own thing. Of course. And that's how I look at nails. I was never really good.
There's some people out there who could fucking start a band and it will sound like Youth of the Day or it will sound like Confront or it will sound like this or that. I've never been good at that. I'm not good at mimicking things or getting the correct tones or blah, blah, blah. I just... I've always just kind of been influenced by things. And luckily for me, it's kind of turned into its own thing.
And I think that's what nails did because I didn't know what I was doing at the, at the beginning. And I mean, it just kind of, it just kind of came out and luckily it was luckily, you know, it's
cool. I would say you've done a good job of at least going to the right people that can help you along.
Yeah.
Yeah. You know? And so like, at least that's deliberate.
Yeah. Like I, like it was definitely planned to record with Kurt. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's the best at that kind of stuff as far as I'm concerned. Yeah.
Yeah. So the first recording is Obscene Humanity.
Yeah, that was recorded with a fellow named Alex Estrada at his studio in downtown LA called Earth Capital. And we did that record there. We did that probably three sessions over the time of two weeks. Dave, who was playing in Blacklisted, who ran Six Feet Under, I was at a Blacklisted show, played him demos of what I was doing. He's like, hey, I'd love to put this out. I was like, sure, this is great. I don't have to shop a record. There you go. You're my friend, so easy peasy. But
you split it on your label too, right?
Yeah, I was doing a record label called Street Cleaner Records. Because you did
the Downpresser?
Yeah. And you did what else? Okay, so I first did the Downpresser record, and then my second record was by a band called Warpriest, which was based out of Baltimore. They were more like a crustier sounding band. And then I did a third record.
This one?
The Nails record, that's right, Obscene Humanity. So I split that with Six Feet Under. I didn't pay for anything on that record. I was just putting my name out there as kind of a leech. Fuck it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is fine. It's no big deal. So Dave put that out, and then that came out in April. We played like a handful of shows, and then I knew that Tom was moving to Washington, D.C. with his wife. So I was like, hey, dude, listen, you're moving to D.C. with your wife soon.
I'm gearing up to do another record. We're going to write another album. I'm going to get another drummer in the band.
Did
I kick him out? I guess I did, but It was more of just like coming to terms with things. You have
experience of doing a long-distance band.
Yeah, and I didn't want to do... That was one of the things with Nails I didn't want to do. I didn't want to do long-distance. I wanted all the members to be centrally located so we could rehearse and play and actually play. I didn't want to be in a situation where we only rehearsed when we had a show or an album to do. I actually wanted to play, but... it's going to end up that way. We typically only rehearse when we have something to do now.
Yeah. Just cause I live so far away from everybody, but, um, well, it's 10
years later. Yeah, that's right. And like, I don't know, you've been able to keep the band together this whole time, constantly grow, have success. So I don't know. I'm psyched. I'm psyched. If that's the only, if that's the only departure from like the original, like intent is, Oh, we don't jam twice a week,
you know, like, fuck it, dude. No, no, I get it. Yeah. But, um, But so we, so I got Taylor in the band. So it's me, John and Taylor. And, um, how do you meet him? I just met, you know what, dude, I met Taylor just, uh, in the early two thousands and the days of AOL instant messenger. He, he hit me up. He was like 18 years old. We're talking, I think we're talking 2003 or 2004 and he just, you know, I am to me out of nowhere and we just started talking. We would chat every now and then.
And, um, so he's just a couple of years younger, pretty close to you. Seven, six, six years younger. He was born in 87. I was born in 81. So he's definitely like a... Yeah. There's definitely like a... Him and John are similar. Yeah, I would say so. Well, even they're a little different. He has an interesting perspective because he grew up in Connecticut and got into hardcore probably when he was like 13 or 14 and then moved to California when he was like 17 or 18.
So... He had a lot of knowledge about the Connecticut hardcore stuff and the kind of like... Dude, let's talk about that follow-through song.
The one good one. Follow through crew. Straight and true. You don't like you booze you lose? You booze you lose is hard. But that riff on the follow through. That's a good part too. We ripped that off right? Stand your ground. Fuck yeah dude. Our version was better too. It's coming out on Stu's Reflections tape comp. Is he calling it Reflections? Yes. Cool. The Clinch Fist song.
Reflections. that was a good song you know who else was good was fay yes um i will send you the demo yeah i need i'd never have fucking heard it but i remember seeing them live and being like dude this fucking band smokes that's what i thought too i was like fuck this is like Pennywise in Nard. Who do you think of our era was the best bands out of all that? I don't think Burning Dog ever had a good recording. I thought live they were fucking amazing.
And I did like their recordings, but it didn't seem like their recordings served them well.
Yeah, I don't know. It's too hard to say. Because I thought that F.A.Y. was probably the best of the live. I don't think I ever saw Clinch Fist, though. Burning Dog, you know, if you have a singer, you're going to be a better live band. I don't know. I don't know. Does Repeater count? Repeater was fucking awesome. Because Repeater is the best. Unless you consider that a little bit later.
No, I don't. That was kind of like the bands from our era. I think Repeater and Missing 23rd were probably the best ones.
I would say Repeater and Missing 23rd are the best ones.
Fuck,
what were we talking about? Yeah, you have to include Missing 23rd, of course. That's definitely old enough. But no, I like the Burning Dog recordings. You know he just remixed it. Oh, yeah? Yeah, it's up on Bandcamp. They found the reels, and Armo just fixed everything. What recording? The 7-inch? No, the demos. Oh, okay. Well, the 7-inch is a part of it. The 7-inch, I think, is Remix Demo.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's
right. But there's two demos. I don't know when the 7-inch came off. Dude, I always love that fucking song. I don't want
no more of this
bullshit. Yeah. Dude. They were fucking good, man. What is that sound like? Max and I try to describe it a lot, and it's hard because it's like a 90s punk sound that's just filtered through listening to a lot of heavy metal. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Because it's beefy, and they fuck with melody, but they don't really fuck with melody. It's like the
age of fat records and epitaphs. influenced them like a tiny bit yeah but they did not go in that direction no they were definitely more of like aggressive punk mixed with just like you guys said just some of that thick the the baseness of the metal stuff the chunkiness of the metal stuff
but it's just it's still yeah i don't know it's just hard for me to wrap my head around like it's trying to be like like bone breakery yeah i don't know yeah i don't know i mean i guess i It's just another one. Obviously what's happening is they're stabbing trying to be something and it's coming out a different way. Like just how you talked about that stuff, right? Yeah. So who knows? Maybe they really were like every single one of them was trying to write their own linoleum.
And that's just how it came out. Yeah, maybe. It doesn't matter. I love them all. And that sound is just so... I love shit like that that cannot be replicated. And that Powerhouse LP is the same way. It's like I don't... You could never like put people in a room and have them walk out writing a record that sounds like that ever again. Definitely time and place. Yeah. And, and, and I think that when we say of the time or time and place, that's not a knock. It's just like, I don't, I don't know.
It's something that could only exist during that time. Right. Yeah. Right. And so it's still good.
It doesn't mean it was shitty.
I know. So like, I don't know how you describe something like that to make it, to give it like the credence I'm trying to give it. Yeah. You know, like it's, All this shit aligned and made something special. Yep. And it can't do it again. No. Because you're not that age. You weren't in that place. You didn't have that equipment. Whatever the fuck ever, right? Yeah, yeah. A lot of things are mistakes. Yeah, happy accidents. You know? Yeah, happy accidents. That's a way better way to say mistake.
So you do see humanity. No. Yes. And then... do on silent death
yeah so so what happened was is is around july of 2009 i recruited taylor in the band and i had about five songs worth of material we got in a room we recorded it and that that's like five songs off of unsigned death right there yeah and um it was rocking and basically between july and december you know i Well, first I told those dudes, I was like, look, we're going to go record this record with Kurt. I talked to Kurt. He's down to record it. And they're like, all right, cool.
So we wrote between July and December, wrapped up the last part of the record we needed to do, recorded it at Kurt's, self-financed. Because at that time, Nails had played 10 shows. And I wanted to go record. That record cost $3,000 to record. And I was in no position to ask anybody to give me four digits or Well, I'm in a band that just, you know, played 10 shows and had, you know, we played to 20 people at every single one of our shows, which is fine. But that's where Nails was at.
So I decided, okay. What about
that show that we did in... Oh, in Oxnard.
Yeah. That was a sick fucking show. Yeah, you're right. Maybe I'm underselling it a little bit. We played some good shows. Well, that's a retaliate headline, dude. 200 kids, bro. It was a great show. I had a great time. No, I remember, man. That was a sick show. Yeah, man. It was a great show. But... I, yeah, so I, so I was just, you know, I'm going to pay for this myself. We're going to record this and we're going to, we're going to put it out ourself.
Now it came out on six feet under and street cleaner, but I actually paid for the manufacturing and distribution of all the records. Um, Dave, uh, six feet under did the CD. Yeah. And, um, and so that came out in March of 2010. Um, we did a record release show in Ojai. Um, within a couple months, Greg Anderson from Southern Lord hit us up and, you know, it was cool. He's interested in putting on our band. So we signed a contract with Southern Lord. Yeah. And then they re release it.
They re released it, um, in November of 2010. So that worked out really well for me because, um, in order to recoup the manufacturing costs and the cost of the recording, I had to basically sell like 860, 12 inches at the distributed rate, like eight bucks a pop. Yeah. And I was worried. And you impressed how many? A thousand. Yeah. And, um, luckily, um, by like July, those of it all sold. I got my money back and fucking Southern Lord bought the record from us. So, you know, that's great.
Cause I was really concerned, man. I mean, that's like, no, it's a lot of money. Yeah. I had like $6,000 wrapped up in that thing. I'm like my own money. And I didn't have much of a savings at that time. It was just like, well, I'm just going to do this. Fuck it. I don't care.
Yeah. And it, and you know, it was cool. Sonically, those first two records are kind of similar. They sound like this, the same band. Okay. Right. Don't you think?
Oh, the first two Nails records? Yeah, those two. Oh, Obscene Humanity and Silent Death? Yeah. Oh, no, I don't, man. I don't. I think when we got Taylor in the band, I think that really changed our sound a little bit. He started doing more of the blasting stuff. And I think the songs are just probably... Nails has found our sound on Silent Death. So from my perspective, I look at Obscene Humanity as just like a demo.
I think that's fair. Yeah? You guys... There's a little more of the mid-tempos. It's hard to say a slower tempo, but you're fucking with those tempos. Yeah, sure. But the jump sonically is the Abandoned All Life LP. I mean, that sounds huge.
Oh, you think so? I think it sounds bigger. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. I think it sounds way bigger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We spent more time there, and we were a better band by the time we went to record it, so that makes perfect sense.
It just sounds more death metal. Okay,
cool. More death metal than like... It was. We were definitely going for that more on that record.
Yeah.
For
sure. Yeah. Which is your favorite?
Of the Nails records? Yeah, I
mean, we can
get through them all first before you decide. Well, my favorite ones are the You Will Never Be One of Us. But out of the ones we were talking about, probably Abandon All Life.
Yeah, so You Will Never Be One of Us is the third LP. And there's actually... Did I make a typo? It's three years later? Yeah,
no, that's right. We usually take about three years to do records. This next one we're doing, we're doing four.
Yeah, so... Did more thinking go into, like, what was harder to write, Abandon All Life or You'll Never
Be One of Us? They were both equally just as hard. Like, they were both very, like, very labor-intensive. Like, one of the things with this is, like, I couldn't write a record, like, a year after or two years after putting out a record because something significant had... Like, I don't... I can't just put out a record every three years for the sake of it.
Like... there needs to be something like there needs to be a reason for that record to exist either i got something to say or or the music has evolved like the music and everything has to evolve before we're going to put out another record basically and that's kind of why it took us three years um to do that and i just want to make sure that when we put something out it's it's worth the 10 or 15 dollars or however much anybody pays to get it um but um Those records were very hard, and a lot of
it had to do with the fact that we just wanted to make sure that we could do something that was worthwhile. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't want to just do Unsilent Death 2 or whatever. But also, that's the thing with Nails. I feel like our soundscape is, you know, there's a lot of things we could do, but there's only a certain thing I want to do. So it's kind of like narrow. Yeah. I mean, it's very narrow.
Trying to find new ways to... to, to, I don't want to say to do the same thing, but you just got to find new inspiration. You just have to find inspiration basically. And that's, that's kind of why it takes us a while. We just have to, cause you know how it is, man. When you make a record, like you live, breathe and sleep it until it's done. And then when you're done with it, you're like, fuck, that was exhausting. No matter how good it is or whatever, you're just like, fuck, I gave that my all.
Like, I don't want to touch a guitar for the next six months. Yeah. That's how I feel. Well, I haven't played guitar since Smalley broke up. So it's been a few years. But, but did you, feel that way when you did the
control records of course yeah i mean it's very when you give your all into something it's very like i don't know it's it's weird
not a bad way but it's no it's
weird coming it's weird coming off it it's like i know what you mean i know what you mean totally it's i don't know it's like a it's an adrenaline dump it's like an endorphin like rush it's like it's all these things encompassed together i mean more so like When Retalia did Thorns, like, we really cared about the record and put everything into it. And then coming out of it, it was just like, oh, we blew it. No one ever fucking heard it. Like, maybe 100 people, you know, or some bullshit.
But anyway, one day we'll re-release it and someone will hear it. It's not out there
still?
No. That came out on, like, Mind
Disease
Records. Yeah, like, we took a chance because it was during, like, a weird Mandel time when he wasn't, like, really doing records. Yeah, yeah. And I think he was going to do it, and then he decided not to, and then he decided to do it. I can't really remember, but the label was kind of hiatus. And so I was like, let me go with these young kids that are going to push it. Yeah, that's cool. I thought so. And then they didn't do anything.
They ended up just being kind of shy and just sat on them all, and now I'm just buying them off them for a dollar a record. Gotcha. No, it was funny because that kind of threw me for a loop. Yeah. man, why aren't you guys like not pushing this shit? And then I did Somali and I did it myself with the first record. I put it out and like, dude, I wouldn't put that in every single Southern California record store.
Yeah. Like, because I don't, it was just like, it was really, it, it kind of, I don't know if angered me. It frustrated me that like those kids didn't, Because it's like, well, why would you not want to? Even if you're just pressing fucking 500 records with no insert, it's fucking $2,000. Do
you want to try to recoup? I don't know. But when you and I were doing our first records, which that sounds like experience similar, we didn't have money to fucking lose. Right. Maybe those guys had enough money where they could just take a wash on an album. Right.
That Somalia, I just want to get the name out. Even if you're losing the money from like, you know, it's a loss leading thing, right? Yeah. It's good to have your shit in every fucking store. And every store took them. I was just like, the fuck? You gotta... At the end of the day... put your feet on the ground, go out and fucking do it. It's the difference between being
successful in any aspect of your life. I think when we came up, it was in the mid to late nineties. There wasn't really much infrastructure for us to be able to put things out. Like the only way we could do things was if we went and took it to the fucking store. Yeah. You know, we didn't have, we didn't either know or we didn't have it at our finger. No, no sort of distribution. Yeah. Available to us. That would take 50 copies and sell them to stores all over the United States. You're
going and doing it. And most times on consignment, it's like, I'll sell it to you for $2. Shit ain't like that anymore. It's still
like that for some of us. No, no, no. What I'm saying is kids don't have to do that anymore. They kind of know that they could get in touch with a distributor, get in touch with Death Wish, get in touch with Revelation. Because back then, I guess there was ebullition. We just didn't. Yeah, I wonder why we didn't fuck with that more so. I bought records from ebullition all the time. And Kent... Even though he was fucking grumpy, he always gave carry-on good reviews and shit, which I thought was
surprising. Yes, they were really cool. Lisa gave the first thing in control. My favorite review we ever got. That's sick. Even mentioning all the lyrics and everything, I was like, man, these are two really rad people. I don't know why we didn't work with them a little more. It would have made sense. But again, Todd, we were just young, and that was just such a small...
piece of time they were they were kind of they were older they were older and they you could kind of tell even though they did give us good reviews it didn't seem like they were interested in really having any sort of relationship with us which is fine sure but maybe it was just the age divide
yeah and it was just like a couple it was we were still like proving ourselves and maybe by the time we would have done something with them we would have moved on to other things I hated the ebullition scene man like
I didn't I didn't I didn't notice that like all the bands that played the pickle patch that weren't hardcore basically man because I was Pickle patch was one of the places that we could go for shows. So I would always go there and I didn't know who was playing, but I would go and I would, and I was, I wanted to see hardcore bands and it was all these bands calling themselves hardcore bands, which is fine, but they didn't fucking sound like you through the day.
No. And that was a huge disappointment for me. And like, I would know at that age, I was too young to be able to say, Oh, I fucking hate this. But it was like, I was spending all this time and effort. I think you still said that. Yeah, I probably did. It's fucking sucks.
I mean, that was like, it was, it was, Interesting place for us because we've – I don't know. We're pretty open-minded people to everyone. We
were. Absolutely. But it's like
that's a place you go and it's just like there are these weird PC people that want to make you feel like you're fucking a terrible person for just being like a normal person, right? There's a little bit of that. For sure. Do you remember – this is fucked up, dude, but I'll tell the story anyway. Do you remember there was that Women's March event?
that was going on I can't remember like what okay there were all these women marching in front of the pickle patch and they were like chanting we'll say it once we'll say it again there's no excuse for violent men and there's like all these women marching like doing a parade and those fucking frat boys rented the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile and they were following all the women around like in a big hot dog truck I remember that dude dude we were like rolling on the ground but it's like okay that's
like a douchey like frat boy move yeah but funny's funny fuck it dude and remember like steve aoki was like scolding us and it's like now you're you're a fucking sound trap like look at the shit you're doing dude he's famous man come on he's fucking famous so why did we fucking raise money for him to make to recoup his
fucking it's funny about all the fucking all out of all the people that like we socialize with or we were in the same kind of group or culture as like the person to get famous was him
It makes perfect sense when you're like fully fucking set for life rich and you never have to compromise anything. There's no like – you don't have to worry like, oh, I got to get a job like selling sandwiches so I can save up money to go on tour. No, that's absolutely true. It's like your fucking parents owned Benihana. It's like you can – You're styling. Yeah, he was styling. You can take some risks. I don't know. What's his basement? Oh, fuck. I got to go live with my folks. Down
in Newport Beach.
I know. They only got that back house, six bedrooms. Fuck. You know? Whatever. Go manage. Still styling. Dude, I know. And best of luck. I'm not hating. Me neither. I always thought it was lame.
He did that one show that was like... raise money to save the pickle patch and remember we all played it yeah um and this is another sign of the times i remember that was the first like hardcore show where there wasn't like a touring band and there was no like bigger band on it and it was like 10 bucks and a lot of our friends were like the
fuck
dude like attend this
show you know like that was the second pickle patch right the last one
it was that final yeah that last one yeah yeah and but the show was at the living room
Oh,
okay. Yeah, he did a benefit show at the living room. And our friends were like, why don't we come and pay $10 for you guys? And then none of us got paid because it was a benefit for the pickle patch, right? And then a month later, he shuts down the pickle patch. And I was like, dude, what's up? And he was like, well, that was to make all my money back. And it's like, what? We thought this was like, we were doing it to
keep it alive. Yeah, man.
Fuck.
The great hardcore entitlement.
I know. What are you going to do? Yellow Peril, dude. That was his column. What was it? That was his column in Heart Attack. What was it? Yellow Peril. Oh, my God, dude. So, Abandon All Life is... And you will never be one of us. Who will not be one of you? And what is the thing?
Oh, man, you'll never be one of us. It's just about how like, it's kind of like how you were talking earlier about how you didn't really understand how like, you know, hardcore punk rock was a very message driven kind of genre. And that's basically what that is about. It's like, it's like people trying to fucking impose who got no fucking right. They got no heart. They got, you know what I mean? Like trying to be in the scene? Yeah. Or just anything. Anything in life.
But what about rockers that want to be up front and bang their head, dude? That's what's up, man.
I got no problem with that. It's just about people who try to attach on to something when they're not pure. They don't got the right intentions and stuff like that. That's just all it's about.
That's fair. Yeah. And do you think that perspective of yours is coming from... My youth. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering if your circle's just bigger now of the bands you've played with and
seen and... I mean, that, I mean, that's, it's, it's not definitely, definitely, it has a lot to do with my youth and it has a lot to do with what's going on now. I would say it had more to do with my youth, but now like, dude, there's so much like in nails. Like I definitely see, like my eyes are open. They always have been, but like, I just, I'm seeing a lot more stuff I haven't seen before. And there's definitely things it's like, yo.
If you're over here, I'm going to fucking stay over here or over there. I don't want to be anywhere near that. So that's definitely inspired that message a little bit. Yeah. But it's just it's just it's just that fucking feeling of anger where it's like, yo, you know, you're in you're into this fucking thing and you're so passionate about it and you see someone come along and just fucking like. Yeah, you fucking suck. Like, you're leeching off shit. You don't give more than you fucking take.
Like, you fucking suck. You need to get the fuck out. Yeah. That's what you'll never be one of us is. Yeah. And I knew, dude. I knew as soon as I fucking thought of that title. I was like, yo, people aren't going to like this. I was like, fuck it. I love it. I don't care. Did people not like it? Oh, people. I mean, dude, I get asked that question all the time. I feel like, I don't know. Like, people make memes and shit. You know what I mean? Like, Nails is like a very, like, memed band.
Because of that? I think so. I think so. because of that maybe other things I don't know
well you didn't give them or you gave them more material huh on like the
latest thing I don't want to know you yeah yo dude that's a fucking great song
yeah I would say it's like
The catchiest nail song. I love that song, man. And that's the problem, man. You know, we have a, we have a stash of songs that we have and we're like, we just, you know, we're behind on making an album. So we're just like, let's just put out a couple songs. And I, you know, the two songs that we chose were the two songs we wanted to put out. And I was like, well, what are we going to call this? I'm like, well, the song is I don't want to know you. I'm not going to change it.
Yeah.
And I thought, well, you know, people are going to think it's funny. You will never be one of us. I don't want to know you. But I wasn't going to let something like that stop me. No, it's like the Catch Yes Nails song, right? I
think so. I like that song. I think so. And then what about the second song? That's the fucking deep dick song. The deep dick song, yeah. We're not fucking, we're not going to beat around the bush. We're just going to give you the whole thing.
Yeah, man. Right up in your guts. Yeah, I mean, it's a one-two punch, man. You've got the fast aspect and you've got the mid-tempo aspect. Yeah. I feel like that's what we do. You know what I mean? We don't have a lot of tricks. I don't know if I'd say we're a one-trick pony, maybe a one-and-a-half-trick pony.
Well, those are two tricks because those songs are totally different and both fucking banging. Oh, thank you. I think those are the two best nail
songs, personally. I mean, I've had criticism like that. I'm pretty psyched. What's the
criticism?
No, no, I've had that exact criticism. People have been telling me they like them. Oh. Criticism in a positive way. Yeah, in a positive way. Yeah, yeah. So we've gotten a lot of good feedback regarding those songs. I
think that would be a critique. There you go, critique, yeah. But I think a critique can be positive or negative. Criticism is always
bad. Well, I don't think a critique is supposed to be positive or negative. It's more of just like a thought. Like, this is my thought.
Yeah, it can go either way. But a criticism is
always negative. I think you're right, yeah. I was using that incorrectly.
But what would be the positive one? An admiration? That would certainly be positive. I don't know. We've gotten lots of admiration
on these two songs. You've always been good with the English language. You're always well-spoken. That's never been my strong point.
This is a fucking terrible testament to it. We have this metal guy, Mark. Shout out if you made it to whatever episode this is. 24 or some shit? Because he listened to the first couple. The guy that's our welder. He's like... Dude, Zach, what's up with you saying like all the time? You sound like a fucking valley girl. And then I was like, oh, right there, you know? And then like, I... I'd listen to it and I'd get in my fucking head. And I'm just like, oh, and there it is again, right?
Once I start thinking about it, it's like, it's just the way I talk. There's nothing I can do about it, right? So love it or leave it, you know?
Well, that's also one thing is like when you choose to be in a band, like you don't really know it at the time, but you're also choosing all these other hats to wear because it's not like you just have to be the singer or the guitar player. You have to be the guy who does interviews. You... if your band makes a video, like what does that mean? Do you have to be an actor?
Like, like, like, like there's a lot of roles that you assume when you decide to be in a band and I don't know, like you're, this has led you to a podcast and now you're, you're going to want to clean up your language or not your language, but you'll want to clean up, clean up, clean up your diction. I mean, it's just, Good for you, man. I couldn't do a podcast
because of that. Here's what I think, dude. It's been nothing but positivity so far, probably because it's not that popular. So mostly if you're on a smaller scale, it's most of your friends and people that think of you positively listening to it, right? I think the criticism comes when you get a little bigger because then you have negative people trying to chop you down. But at the end of the day, you just have to do something. So the impetus of the podcast was...
That Damien dude from Fucked Up. Yeah. He does a podcast. And he used to, in a lot of his earlier episodes, he talked a lot about Nardcore and Mystic. Really? Yeah, a lot. That's awesome. He just seemed really interested in it. He's definitely a super record collector guy. He's definitely a super record collector guy. And so I emailed him maybe once or twice, him or his brother, because I think his brother helps him out with his social media accounts.
And I was like, dude, if you like all that Mystic stuff, you've got to... Get Tony Cortez on your shit. Because he's a fucking dude that... He's not fucked up. No, he's not. And he was there from the beginning. So it's like you can have this perspective of 1980 on, and he's there for you. And they never even respond or anything. Then I was just thinking to myself, I'm like, why am I... I'm fucking 39. Why am I emailing another man telling him, hey, you should do this?
It's like, no, I have the means. I can go out and get equipment and I'll just fucking do it. And if people like it, they like it. And if they don't, they don't. And it's like, again, I'm old enough and I know how to deal with that negative energy, like how we were talking about the teamwork records guy. It wouldn't bother me now because we can look at it and it's like, you're giving off this negative energy to me for no reason, you're the loser.
Yeah. Like, by you big-timing, what, you're going to big-time a fucking 20-year-old?
Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Like, you're a fucking dork, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know what you mean. So it's like, that stuff doesn't bother me, so if someone wants to come at me, and he, like, the welder dude was, he wasn't, like, really busting my balls. Yeah. But if someone came at me, like, oh, like, the way you talk is sorry, or, like, you're stupid, or some shit, it's like, whatever, like... you can do your own, you know? So I'm, I'm ready for the criticism
basically.
Right. But I also think I do a, like objectively, I think I do a pretty good job. I think you do too. You know? So, I mean, I try to do a little bit of my homework with you. It's easy because I've known you forever and I know like most of the songs, but for some people I have to like go and listen to things. And like, you know, if some of the stuff I like, like doing Tim from humanity, like his whole discography is not necessarily easy to get.
Yeah. And like, I really wanted to do a good show with him because people look at him like they look at Tony Cortez and Nard. Absolutely. And I'm like, I'm not going to fucking put this guy in a position to fail. I want him to come off really well. So I made sure I got all those records and listened to them all. That's cool. You got to go that extra mile of whatever.
Yeah.
Anyway, so Nails is firing, dude.
Yeah.
And that's it.
Yeah.
And forever. Why would you ever stop? Oh, to stop doing nails?
Yeah. I don't think I will. Yeah. Will
you do
it when you're 50? I guess. What I look at is the next LP in front of us. And that's what we're doing now. We're trying to write another record. I mean, we are writing another record, but... I don't know. We'll see how it goes, man. I mean, I, I, if I could do nails when I'm 50, I'll do it for sure. I mean, I think I'll always play music. Um, I'm not, I don't know. I've kind of surprised myself in my own path through music.
Um, you know, when I was younger, I didn't think I'd, I'd, I'd, I'd be doing music until I was, you know, I'm 38 now. So I didn't think I'd be doing music this long. So I don't, I just kind of keep it open-ended and just do what I can do. I'm just lucky because, uh, I'm lucky that Nails is in a position where we're in. It's cool. I'm psyched on it. It's a lot of fun. Again, luck
is like a... If we want to chew into our language. That's a weird word,
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luck's not the word. But we're fortunate that there's an audience of people who are interested in doing the things that we would do. Because the fact of the matter is, if Nails drew 50 people still, I'd still play shows. It just would be a lot less. You know what I mean? But I'd maybe play two or three shows a year. But we're fortunate that we have a following to where we can go to Toronto, Canada, or go to New York City, or whatever, and have a pretty banging show.
Yeah, and that there's enough psychos. out there that can like have that type of music in their palette. Yeah, relate with it. Right? Because like I was going to say like so A Band All Life to me like I love the production. I think it's like perfect death medley sounding, right?
You Will Never Be One Of Us like the first time I listened to it I was like I think I was driving to Oregon and I was like in this with our company you know we build stuff here and then we got to go deliver it and I was driving to this Penske and so a lot of those like the The systems are going to be sorry, right? They're not putting a banging system into the Penske. Yeah. And fucking you will never be one of us. Like, that thing surges so hard. Like, I don't know.
Like, it was like, I can't even tell what I'm listening to right now. Like, this is fucking wild. That's awesome. You know, it's just like. Like, I don't know. The speakers didn't know. It was like, I don't know. It was like a fucking teenager's brain. That's awesome. It didn't know how to, like. have this music sonically come out of this shitty speaker system. I was like, I've got to wait until I get home and listen to this at my house. You know what I mean?
Because I can't even hear how it sounds right now. It was surging too hard. That's awesome. Do you want to talk about Fireburn? Yeah. Okay, so what was the idea for doing
this band? So I met Todd Youth... at a Power of the Riff when Nails played. We played Power of the Riff with Neurosis, and the prior day Blood Clot played, but we couldn't go see him. But Joey and Todd, the drummer and the guitar player from Blood Clot, came just to hang out, and they checked out Nails, and I met them at that show.
And I met Todd Youth, and... I mean, that was kind of a big deal for me because, you know, you remember, I mean, Warzone was one of the first hardcore bands that came across, I think, all of our radars. Oh, yeah. I think Roger Camaro had that double disc or another Planet CD of the first two albums. And so that was something we all jammed.
Yeah.
So I was like, wow, man, it's fucking Todd Youth. He didn't play on those records, but he made a lot of those songs. I was like, wow, that's fucking cool. And I just hit him up. I'm like, yo, man, you want to go get lunch sometime? He was like, sure. So we went and got lunch one day. I drove up to where he lived. We got lunch in Hollywood. And we had a really good time. And then a month later, I saw him at a show in Hollywood. He's like, hey, man, you want to do a band? I was like, fuck.
I would love to play music with you, yeah. And I'm like, I can only really get together once a week or once every two weeks. He's like, yeah, it'll be a side project, no problem. I'm like, what do you want to sound like? He's like, let's do something that sounds like agnostic front.
I'm like fucking count me in dog like let's do it and so um it's like do you know any drummers so I was like yeah I know this great drummer and a buddy of mine Nick who I played a knife fight with fucking phenomenal drummer phenomenal person we got together and it was just it was magic me Nick and Todd got together in a room and it was just fucking on and you know we were I mean it was just awesome like we had like a really great chemistry with us and um And, uh, we're talking mid 2017 nails
goes on tour. And we had like 10, 10 of these demo songs that we have, like half of them sounded like, like the first agnostic front seven inch, like that kind of style. And then the other half of them sounded a little bit more like musical, I guess it sounded like a little bit more like the bad brands. And, um, I came home from tour and Todd had these demo songs. He's like, listen to this. And he played one of the songs and it was Israel singing on it. I had no idea who was singing on it.
And I was like, holy fuck, dude. Who's this singer? It sounds like HR. He's like, oh, it's Israel. He sang on Rise. I was like, oh, where does he live? He's like, oh, he lives in Santa Monica. And it's like, oh, I guess we got our singer. And so Israel joined the band and... I don't know. It was supposed to be a side project band, but slowly but surely, it was kind of getting turned into a real band. It was good. I wish it would have stayed
the way it was. I don't know. record cover the first one is like beautiful
yeah man so it's like you come out with that out the gate yeah it was hot man i mean people fucking people seem to like it i mean i i was i was fucking psyched on it i was super proud of it i loved playing with those guys but the fact of the matter is it was popping and i had to take a step back and
so they did some shows without you but you still did like the second record and shit i mean they did a whole tour without
me i mean because i i stopped playing in december and then but but we had recorded that two song seven inch and that came out i think in the spring but they they did like a genius like half the United States, and they did dates here and there. They probably played about 30 shows. Were
you in the band, though?
No. You actually left the band. I
left the band,
yeah. I left the band in December of 2017, and then Todd passed in the summer, I think. Yeah, I don't know. Fireburn was a great experience, but also, I don't know. I wish things would have worked out a little bit differently. How old was he? Yeah, Todd was, when he passed, I think he was 48 years old. Which is kind of crazy if you think about it, because he was 13 in 1982, right? Yeah.
So it's like... That's amazing to like... That's something to... I don't know. There's something to strive for. He did a great band. Up until the end. Yeah.
Yeah, man. He had it going on, man. That dude was... He was a great musician. A great musician and a great mind, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I learned a lot from playing music with him. That's so cool. Yeah, I'm psyched.
Anything else you want to touch on? No, no. That's it. Okay, I think we went all the way through. Okay, cool. Is there anything else? No, that's how we do it. I just ask, do you feel like you've been well-represented? Do you feel like we went through and did everything good?
Oh, we probably talked about things that I didn't really care to talk about. But yeah, I'll be that in a negative way. I'd be like, dude, you really did your homework, man. I mean, not like you had to, but like, I was really surprised. This was really cool. I mean, we talked about everything. We didn't really talk about Snake Eyes that much, but that was sort of... Oh, you
know what? That kind of... Yeah, you know why? Because you jumped right from Betrayed to Nails. Yeah, that's... Yeah, so you cut it out. So Snake Eyes is in 2007. It must have been right before you went to play with Blacklisted.
Yeah, basically. I think the demo... We did the demo in 2005, early 2005, and I think it was in the thick of Internal Affairs. Okay. But... But me and Corey, we started that band and got Bo on vocals and did a demo and then did a 7-inch, and that was pretty much it. I mean, the band didn't really do a whole lot. What did you do? Just a demo and a
7-inch. Is it two different recordings?
Yeah.
So is the demo
available? Did it come out? We put it out on CD-R. I don't even think it's floating around the internet or anything like that. It's probably on YouTube. You speed picked on one of those songs, didn't you? Yeah, I love Tremolo picking. It's like my favorite shit. That was my Slayer influence. That's all I learned was Metallica, Slayer, Nirvana songs.
Yeah, that was a good band. And it was bad timing, right? Because you did it right before you
went
and did Blacklisted.
Yeah, I mean, everybody, like Corey had Internal Affairs. I don't know if the chemistry was right, like really. It wasn't like a band anybody pursued, you know? Yeah.
So it was all right.
Cool. You want to wrap on Snake Eyes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Thank you,
Todd. Thank you very much.