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button 185 miles south A Hardcore Punk Rock Podcast. What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, we are taking it way back to 1993 to talk about one of the most important events Hardcore 7-inches of all time. It's the Earth Crisis Firestorm 7-inch. Helping out, you know him, you love him. It is the best dressed man on the pod. It is Daniel Sant. What's up, Dan? Street by
street,
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by block.
Hey, we're taking it all back, man. So, we did the Set It Off episode, got some good feedback. I wanted to do it again. I got some more ideas on some other records to do in the future, but this is a banger of a record. Carl was so generous with his time and really opened up about this. I punished him. There's about a 40-minute interview coming up here where we talk everything Firestorm with Carl, Earth Crisis.
We also got a bunch of testimonials from people talking about this record and how important it was to the scene as well as to them personally. But I wanted to start it off chatting with my buddy Dan a little bit because, Dan, this is a – important record to you, and you do believe it is a game changer in hardcore, correct?
Yeah, absolutely. I feel it is a game changer in eliciting a certain kind of passion and a certain kind of zealotism that followed a band that really hadn't been seen until this point, in my opinion. There are lots of people, Straight Edge is like 10, 11 years old at this point. There are a lot of bands that I've had lots of straight edge followings, but this band develops a worldwide following that really hardens the straight edge. Like people are very serious about it.
And then not only is the band bringing you as almost a zero tolerance commitment to straight edge, they're also enlightening everybody to, veganism and animal rights and seeking out justice for animals because it's a very unjust world for animals.
They're also going in and taking like the recording process seriously and getting a huge recording, right? So metal hardcore is already taken off. It's 1993, but this recording is big and stacks up, you know, it's not like, I don't know. You listen to those of you tomorrow, right? The Interity record. And it's like, this is good. The songs are great, but it's sonically isn't like a heavy metal record, right? The production isn't there. Where this is this giant, big sounding record.
And ironically, it's recorded at the same place, but just a little while longer. So it's with Bill Karecki at Mars, I believe. And what's really interesting about the sonic approach to be doing so much of a metallic take on things is lots of metal approach in the genre of heavy metal is showing chops and really... dialing in like solos and, and, and building parts with octaves, et cetera, or harmonics and things like that. This is going to basics, open a juju juju.
And it sounds like Armageddon is coming, you know? And then the lyrics add to it.
Yeah. There's an irony there, right?
Because they're held up as like kind of the, the premier metal hardcore band that they, years later there would be kind of like a backlash against right with like the youth crew revival and so forth but it is so interesting in the way you put that dan because so much of the seven inch is like stripped down you know in the way that like original hardcore is like stripped down sped up rock and roll like this is literally like plucking apart out of a slayer song like the dopest part making it like
the focal point of their song putting some lyrics over it it's just like it's such a brilliant, simple move, but it's like the first guy to do it, like gives the credit for it. Right.
Yeah. And the power that it's delivered with, right. It's just, it is unashamed. Um, it's an unashamed focus. Like you might think this is lame.
Like lots of people might, I'm not saying you in particular is that, cause I know you don't, but lots of people might think it's lame to be so, uh, single-minded about something but there's such a power to it that comes through in the music like the single-mindedness of the commitment to straight edge and the commitment to veganism comes through and adds to the music in such a absolute killer way where it it just it's like you know that giant mallet driving like a railway spike into the ground
or something that's that's how this sounds to me and it and going off of what you were saying or what we are saying about the stripped down approach like unseen holocaust the negative space that is in that song sonically is is just as killer as the as the slide riff that it's doing you know it's it's got such vibe and such um i don't know i i got into this at the peak time that I think I ever could have got into any band, and this just washed over me in such a massive manner that I was taken
away by the waves. I was just like, everything this is talking about, obviously I was a young straight-edge kid, so listening to Firestorm, which is quite... melodramatic lyrically in regard to clearing up the streets and getting rid of drug dealers, etc. But then Forged in the Flames is just that thing that makes you feel like 10 foot tall listening to it by being an edgeman.
But then Unseen Holocaust comes on and for anyone who's studied Manifest Destiny or the way that Americans swept across the country just raping, pillaging and taking this land away from indigenous folks. That song lyrically is just, it's incredible because it's laid out almost like a historical tome in a way, set to this music and it gradually builds with emotion. And I think it's an incredible piece of songwriting.
Yeah, there's just so many big moments, like so many big catchy moments too, right? Like, I just think about the drums going into the second song. You know what I mean? It's like this record is like nothing but big moments. And each musician kind of gets their time to shine, you know? It's like... my favorite part of the whole record is probably like that lead that they hit on unseen Holocaust. And then it goes to the China symbol, like on that off note. Yeah. And Jesus dude, this record rips.
Like it's one of those things that there's zero chance that you live without it. You know, like I just sometimes fiend to hear it. You know what I mean? Like sometimes it's a weird way that music connects to us. Right. That, that, really, really love this thing. You know, sometimes you just get the urge and you have to put it on. Like sometimes I have to like put on uniform choice, use your head. Right. I just have to hear it.
Like I, I gotta put that on, you know, sometimes I have to put on stabbed in the back by, by you for the day. You know, I just need it. We were brothers. You and me. Like, Oh my God. You know? And this is one of them. Like I can't live without it. That. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. And that dive bomb that comes right after. The whole thing is iconic. It's like one of those things where I'm sure these dudes plan this out and the majority of it is deliberate.
But it's just one of those crazy something in the water. It's a magical night. Because every dive bomb turns out perfect, right? Every drum fill turns out perfect. This thing is just a flawless... perfect short record, right? And it lines up time-wise that a metal hardcore band can put out an iconic three-song record.
And so let's look at where this kind of single-mindedness and fire came from.
I will like, this is my theory, that this is the third wave of hardcore essentially you know you've got the early 80s and then you've got youth crew looking back at that stuff including uniform like cutting off at uniform choice you got youth crew starting up around the same just on the tail end of that looking back at these bands that talked this lifestyle and then you know turned away from it and so youth crew then comments on that It's like, I'm not going to be like that.
And I'm going to sing these words and I am not going to break. And no matter what, this is right for me. And there's such an anger, but also like well thought out, holistic thinking about why someone is straight edge in regard to not just going along with the thing, but it's like an actual political statement. Again, it's going back to you know, the first wave, AKA the song straight edge, it's like a political statement to be drug free or chemical free.
And it goes hand in hand with what they think about for veganism. But I think it's really interesting thinking about that, that third wave, looking back on the heroes, you know, the youth crew heroes who came just a few years before, but who all sold out and created this, like almost, vengeful anger in regards to Straight Edge, you know?
Totally. If you're looking at the first gen, it's like 81 to 85-ish. The second gen coming like 85-ish to 1990. That's that youth group span, the 85 to 90. And they're getting some of the originals, right? They're getting the True Till Death and the New Direction and stuff. And then it's time for the 90s, you know? And Earthquake's going to like you said, they learn the lessons of, of not wanting to go down like they're heroes.
And the amazing thing about earth crisis is they, they never did like they, they stayed true. Right.
Yeah. And, and that's something you can, right.
You can never take that away from them. So people knocked them a lot for, you know, maybe taking themselves too seriously and stuff, but Hey, they lived it, you know? And I love when hardcore means something, you know, there's, there's been plenty of examples of, of, Lyrics not mattering. And then that's very disappointing, right? There's lots of times when that happens. And you're like, well, what's the point of this fucking thing, right?
If it's just a music to enjoy, then fuck, I like reggae almost just as much. You know what I mean? But when there's something holistic attached to hardcore, and there's a meaning behind it, and there's a good message, and the people live it, it's the greatest music on the planet. these are dudes that lived it. Right. So.
Yeah. And, you know, following on from that, this is the band that there are many bands, you know, that we always talk about that have tentpolled directions within hardcore. We, we talk about hate breed, birthing, moshcore, essentially. We talk about, you know, youth of today bands, providing such anger, but with such fast and sometimes melodic, somewhat, music.
And we talk about these different things that have come along, but Earth Crisis is going to be one of them that other bands, and this is probably where a lot of the jealousy and shit-talking and trying to mock them for what they were into... would look and see this band that could generate reactions like hadn't been seen in hardcore before.
Of course, there'd been sing-alongs and pylons and stuff like that, but an almost maniacal response to a few of their songs live that are some of the craziest things I've ever seen. Like... California Takeover at Showcase. Just the push to get to the mic for Firestorm or them playing in Lost Horizon in Syracuse, watching some of those old videos and just seeing what this musical approach along with these lyrics that tend to, like I say, gain disciples.
what this can do like it'll be it was copied across the country by many bands trying to tap into this following this and also it was copied by many bands because like i say this this kind of music recruited disciples like lots of the bands that started up after this were just massive fans of this
right but they almost all whiffed This is like the real shit.
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And let's just talk Carl's voice on this recording.
Perfect.
Yeah. I mean, the Earth Crisis 1993 demo, which has Firestorm and Forged in the Flames, also got a different version of Eco Side and then a couple songs that would go on to be on Destroy the Machines, but they're a bit more stripped down on on that demo his voice sounds unreal on that demo too but that like carl's voice in 1993 no disrespect to his voice later on but it's the perfect um it's the perfect mix of him being young his voice being shredded like he hasn't learned to sing from his
stomach yet, so it's a lot of throat in there that makes it just sound like arguably some of the best hardcore vocals ever.
Yeah, it's out of this world. Okay, so we have the interview with Carl coming up as well as a bunch of testimonials. Dan, you want to wrap this with anything else?
I just want to say that this record meant the world to me then, and you know what? It still means the world to me now. And nothing will change till I'm like 70. If I make it that long, this will still mean the world to me then. So thank you, Earth Crisis. All right, everyone. Enjoy the show.
Thank you.
Hello, 185 South listeners. My name is Ray Harkins, and I am the host of a podcast called 100 Words or Less. Also sang for a band called Taken and, you know, just been active in the hardcore scene for quite some time. Because that's what you do, you know, like you get into it and you're a lifer. I mean, not everybody, but you get the point. Huge shout out to 185 South. I love the podcast and love the work that Zach is doing here.
He asked me to contribute to my the love letter that is the Earth Crisis Firestorm EP. I am a huge devotee to Earth Crisis. I first discovered them off of the Victory Style One compilation and their song Wrath of Sanity. I so distinctly remember buying that comp on a whim in a record store called Top Ten Records in Tustin, California. I did not have any idea who Earth Crisis or Victory Records was.
I just bought it because the CD was $5 and that is exactly what I had to spend at that particular time. I then decided headfirst into the entire Victory Records catalog. I loved it all. I mean, the only thing I think on that first Victory Style comp that I didn't really deal with was maybe Hi-Fi and the Road Burners. Everything else was so good, from Kill to Dead Guy, etc., etc. But Earth Crisis really spoke to me.
And then shortly after I purchased Destroy the Machines is when Firestorm came into my life. And I listened to Firestorm, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is like straight up the Bible of what it means to to be straight edge and be very loud and outspoken about it and not mince your words. And that was exactly what I wanted to hear at that particular time. I by no stretch of the imagination was ever tough or militant about my straight edge.
I think the most extreme I personally got with it was, you know, urinating in a punch bowl, not directly in a punch bowl, but, you know, peeing in a cup and then taking it to a punch bowl and spiking it, you know, or just ruining it. That was the most militant I ever personally got.
So, you know, by no means am I a person that was, you know, on the front line But Earth Crisis really, really spoke to me in regards to just making sure that their opinion was not only heard, but that you understood that this was well-researched, that they had done their homework, and they were living lifestyle.
And fast forward, I don't know, 10 some odd years later, I actually had the privilege of signing Earth Crisis to Century Media Records, because I worked there for many years, and got to become really close friends, especially with Scott Krause, like a And the amount of times I punished him directly about questions about Firestorm, that EP, you know, two, three hours at a bare minimum. And even this is when he was living in California.
I went through and played a couple shows in Bakersfield personally, and that was where he lived. And he came out to the shows. And it was just such a weird full circle moment for me to be this hardcore kid that got into the Earth Crisis in particular at 14, 15 years old. And then, you know, to be in my mid-20s and working with them, it was just amazing. Earth Crisis, they are the real deal. They continue to be the real deal. Firestorm continues to baptize kids into the hardcore scene.
And they still not only play it at all of their shows, but if I am not mistaken, they love closing with it. And the other songs on that EP too are incredible. Unseen Holocaust and Eden's Demise. And I love how for a long time, I was under the impression that Firestorm was its own separate song And that Forged in the Flames was something completely different. But it's, I love Earth Crisis. I will continue to love Earth Crisis.
And anybody that is willing to listen to me pontificate about that means that you love Earth Crisis too. So thank you very much, 185 South. And thank you very much, Earth Crisis.
Earth Crisis
Yo, what's up? This is Busky from the Syracuse Hardcore Bands, Another Victim, Son of Sangre, and The Promise. Also, Ragman Terror, Maximum Penalty, and Manipulate. I also do an online and print fanzine called An Attitude Exhumed that just recently released the third issue called Smash or Be Smashed, which is focused on the early stages of the band Earth Crisis. Heavy, chunky, classic riff heard around the world.
I can't imagine a hardcore band from the 90s into the early 2000s that wouldn't or couldn't cite Firestorm as some sort of a source of reference or inspiration. The riff is absolutely classic. The simplicity of it, the chunkiness, the heaviness, it's instantly memorable, and I think it has a great way of suiting the lyrics perfectly.
It really does sound like a soundtrack of a battle scene, and those lyrics definitely have a battle cry sort of a theme to them, so... I think overall the sonic value that the song, the simplicity of the riff, the recording, the heaviness, it all just sort of formulated perfectly into more than just music. Forged in the Flames, another classic song. Very empowering lyrics. Straight edge topic, straight edge driven.
But I think that anybody... who isn't straight edge could still take something away from those lyrics. And I think that's one thing that has allowed the band to have such longevity as that the lyrics can be taken out of the straight edge context, but still be used in a positive and driven, meaningful way in a non-straight edge person's life. So Forged in the Flames of Chaos, Hammered by Trials to Tempered Steel.
If that can't resonate with you in a non-straight edge context, you know part of your life then i don't know man that's that's pretty empowering lyrics so um and to close the song with to the x i'm crucified absolutely brilliant what an empowering statement unseen holocaust and eden's demise were two of the newer songs um that were recorded there was a demo that was out between all out war and this and But these two songs weren't on. So once this release came out, these were the two newer songs.
And I just remember being blown away at how much heavier they were even from Firestorm and Forged in the Flames. That single note chugging mosh part at the end of Unseen Holocaust was just mind blowing. Eden's Demise was another slower, chunkier, heavier song, more in the mid-tempo pace. But I think really this is where the lyrics started to become a lot more educational when it came to the world issue topics of veganism, vegetarianism, animal rights, things like that.
You can really hear in these lyrics that there's a problem, and this is our sort of solution to that problem. And this is where I think the band really started to gain a lot more traction and momentum as something other than just a one-dimensional, vegan, straight-edge band. ¶¶
This is James Hart from the band 18 Visions and I'm going to talk a little bit about Earth Crisis Firestorm EP. It came out when I was really, really young. I think I was 14 years old and just getting into straight edge and hardcore music. And lyrically, I was connecting with bands like Minor Threat and the messages they had. But musically, I was more into heavier stuff, more metal, Sepultura, Pantera.
And for me, this EP, this record, I had it on vinyl, just kind of really blended the two of what I was really into, the message, the lyrics, and the intensity, the heaviness of the music. And Firestorm and the song Fortune of Flames, for me, just lyrically took things to a different place. And it made me really feel like there was something going on, something more, something bigger.
I think musically, the intensity that it brought, the heaviness, it brought out a different emotion in me, a different feeling than... like the minor threat stuff or the Gorilla Biscuits stuff, the more youth crew, late 80s type of hardcore that I was kind of listening to that introduced me to Straight Edge. And this really just kind of cemented, I feel like, who I was and that I really was going to belong to something special.
So I think... two bands really started to gravitate to this style of of like metalcore i guess is probably the early um early sub-genre that you would call it, and I know it's had a really, really big impact on 18 Visions and our music growing up and starting to play in the mid-90s.
Earth Crisis was a band we wanted to mold our music after, and I think if it wasn't for Firestorm, we obviously would not have had Destroy the Machines, and I think that Just that whole brand of metalcore coming up in the mid-90s just wouldn't have existed, and they just did such a good job of tastefully blending hardcore and metal music together, and then putting really smart, intelligent, meaningful lyrics that I was able to connect with on a really, really deep level together.
just really took things to the next level for me. If it wasn't for this band and this EP, I don't know that Hardcore would have gone to the place that it did, and Straight Edge would have gone to the place that it did. Looking back almost 30 years later now, and still being Straight Edge, this record still holds such deep importance to me in my life, and it's been a staple for me as long as I've known it, which is almost 30 years now.
All right, this week on the pod, we have Carl from Earth Crisis. Thanks for taking the time, Carl.
Thank you for documenting some ancient history.
Yeah, man. Where do you think Earth Crisis was as a band after you put out the All That War EP?
I think that there was a resurgence of hardcore starting in central New York, you know, in Syracuse and Ithaca and Rochester, but we were the first straight edge band and there was kids traveling to come see us, you know, just from our, our general region. And they were pretty passionate. So, I mean, we were, you know, I think we were doing reasonably well off of a 7-inch.
Guav was running conviction records out of his apartment, and he was doing everything mail order, and he was getting orders from, you know, overseas for all at war. So, I mean, there was some cool energy going on at the time.
The sound changes a bit. is that like a conscious decision or is that just like a natural thing that happened between the two seven inches?
Yeah. Firestorm was what we were trying to do, you know? So we were, we were trying to make the hardest version of hardcore that we could. And I think that, you know, darkening it in and slowing it down. I think that that's one of the things that made us stand out at the time as well. And songs like Eco Side or Shredded Apart, I mean, some of those were from the original 1989 era. So there was a little bit of progression through those years.
Do you remember the first song that you guys wrote or played post All at War?
I think everything on what came to become known as the Firestorm demo. and the Firestorm 7-inch, it was all written in rapid succession. I do know that.
Yeah, the demo comes out in 93, so that comes out in between the two 7-inches. What was the purpose of that demo? Was it just, were you label shopping?
Yeah, yeah. It wasn't a demo. Demo has a certain connotation that, you know, oh, a new band is putting out material via a demo. Like, that truthfully was the pre-production for either
Firestorm or Destroy the Machine. Right. Demo's unfair. It's more like a promo. Yeah, I think so. And then no one was able to get that, right? You didn't do mail order for it. It was, like, literally just for friends and to shop.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, there was never an official cover. There was never a lyric sheet. Nothing was considered a final draft version of a song. So... The songs that made it onto Destroy the Machines, I guess, those were the solidified versions that we thought were ready to be released.
Right, made it onto the Firestorm 7-inch. Yeah. This is kind of a strange question, but I like it because it contextualizes the band. What was your practice space like around this time?
We were practicing in... my lead guitar player Scott's mother's basement and their house was on the edge of Cicero Swamp and when there'd be a rainstorm the basement would flood so all of our gear was set up on pallets and there was literally some light bulbs hanging down there it was more of a basement in name only
That's a vibe,
though. Yeah, it was more like a cavern. And we had planks of wood so you could walk between the different, you know, quote-unquote islands to get to our gear. But that's a real thing. Yeah, everything was stacked up above the water as it would drain slowly.
What was the songwriting process like for the Firestorm EP compared to the previous stuff you'd done?
Well, the previous stuff that we'd done, obviously... and truthfully was kind of thrown together. Whereas I think by the time we got to Firestorm, we had a distinct sound that we had crafted. And some of the riffs were built off of Dennis' drumbeat. Dennis was very influenced by hip hop. And yeah, I mean, I think we, you know, we were our own band. We weren't trying to sound like our heroes at that point. We were doing it our way.
Right, we should say that in between the two 7 Inches, Dennis Merrick joins the band, and you're saying that's how he influences the sound the most.
I would say so, absolutely, yeah. You know, giving things like, you know, the kind of beat that you could bob your head to.
Right, right.
And he was also willing to work with us, like, a lot more so than other hardcore kids that, you know, we tried out on drums or played in other bands with. Like he would play a blast beat. He would play something slow. He would, you know, really work the ride symbol, you know? So yeah, he was open to ideas and to exploring and experimenting.
How did it feel the first time you put your lyrics down to the song Firestorm? And like, could you tell that there was something special in the room? I
think so. Yeah.
Yeah.
you know, bearing in mind, you know, 1989, 90, 91, 92. I mean, I had been writing lyrics for years, you know, and, and trying to get things going with other people. But I think we got to that, you know, that magical configuration of friendship, friendships and musicianship with people who were like-minded and and were willing to, you know, just to experiment musically. And I was definitely feeling a lot of anger during those years.
A lot of my friends that I had grown up skateboarding with, you know, they'd become alcoholics, they'd, you know, gotten into pills or harder drugs, and it was straining our relationships and it was becoming problematic for them. You know, they were starting to drift. And, you know, I know for guys like, especially Scott and I, like, friendships were the family. So we took that very seriously. And some of our other friends were starting to get into selling drugs.
And I wanted a clear line of demarcation. You know, I wanted to make a statement and let it be known that I would never be a part of those worlds. And that's where Firestorm came from.
How would you describe your lyrical style at this point in time? I
think that we were telling stories. I think hardcore, a lot of it is very focused on personalized experiences and thoughts and emotions like anger or depression or betrayal, things of that type. And I wanted to kind of take a step beyond that and tell stories. You know, so the... I mean, you would drive...
If you were driving south on the highway north up to Syracuse, you'd see a huge homemade billboard that said, you know, Governor Pataki does not respect the indigenous people of the Onondaga Nation. So... You know, that was a little spark that made us start thinking, you know, what's happening to the Native Americans in our area? They're not being treated fairly by New York State for various reasons.
Or, you know, why are there certain sections of the city where it seems like the police have basically turned a blind eye and the drug sales and the crime are out of control? So... Yeah, we wanted to tell those stories and Syracuse is on the shores of Onondaga Lake, which up until at least a few years ago was the most polluted body of water in North America.
There was different companies that were putting toxic waste into the lake bed and it would settle at the bottom and some of it was mercury and It was an ecological disaster area. So yeah, it sounded like Eden's demise. Sounded like firestorms, sounded like unseen holocaust.
Right. You're kind of referring to unseen holocaust with the talk of the indigenous people and then the pollution is like Eden's demise. How does it feel just to jump way ahead to the present? Like you're sending out these environmental hardcore warnings or these environmental warnings to Like 30 years ago, how does it feel looking like how the planet's going now? Like we didn't wake up.
Yeah, I mean, when I was a kid, winter was an ordeal. It was something that was severe. It would be in the 20s and 30s, it seemed like, for five months straight. Now if we get five blizzards or five heavy snowfalls, it'll melt within four or five days. There's some mountains around us where people ski and snowboard. Some of them closed. And they pretended to clean up Onondaga Lake. They had barges out there that they said were removing the toxic material from the floor.
And it was being siphoned out and put into holding tanks. And I remember driving by and literally seeing barges at one point during the quote unquote cleanup, dropping rocks off of the side onto big sheets of plastic that they said were designed to contain the contaminants. So they literally swept it under the rug. They didn't like drain it and dredge it and get it out. You know, the whole thing was a massive missed opportunity.
Why do you decide to do another EP instead of going right to an LP?
I didn't think All Out War was all that it could be. And I felt like our skill level was rising to enough of a point that it made more sense to record a 7-inch first, especially after we had Victory behind us, And let that be the introduction. And I had hoped we could record all at war at some point, but that obviously never happened, and it probably wasn't necessary.
You went to Cleveland to go to Mars and record with Bill Karecki. I apologize if I pronounce his name wrong.
You got it right, yeah. I mean, he was one of the... He had one of the best studios and the highest skill level of any audio engineer that was, you know, within our ability to get to. And, you know, he'd done a great job for Integrity. Let's see, he did... What was the band before One Life Crew? Confront? Yeah, Confront. Yeah, so, I mean, we were thrilled to be able to go there because he definitely knew how to, like... create a very, very darkened in and an aggressive sound.
How much was integrity influence on you guys?
We, uh, we're pretty much doing the same thing at the same time, you know, bearing in mind, you know, earth crisis was on stage playing songs like shredded apart and ecocide. Um, yeah. And in, in the summer of 89. So we, we, we had similar ideas. Let's make the hardcore harder by stirring some metal into the mix. Resurrection was doing the same thing, and Groundwork, and All Out War out in western New York, or not western, eastern edge of New York.
I think a lot of different bands were coming to the same conclusion. Here's a way to make it even more aggressive. But yeah, I think Integrity was great. I love that first 7-inch.
When you went into the studio, do you feel like you were able to get the sounds that you wanted?
200%. We were well rehearsed. And, you know, it wasn't a super long distance to go. So, you know, we weren't like shot from overdrives or anything. Yeah, I think we went in there and just, everyone was a professional at that by that point. And that seven, this is exactly what it needed to be minus the artwork, which I've always thought was lacking.
Do you, do you have any general memories from recording, uh, the firestorm EP? Do you see anything you remember from being in the studio?
Yeah, it was, it was incredible how, uh, well run it was and how we were functioning as a band at that point because of you know i had been striving to get to where we were for five straight years you know with lineups falling apart or people not feeling comfortable singing my lyrics or you know they didn't you know they weren't looking for the kind of guitar tones that i wanted
did
you so yeah it was a relief to be there and have it actually happen
Did you sequence the record before or after the recording? I'm assuming it's before because the Firestorm song goes right into Forging the Flames.
My best guess is that Scott planned that.
How do you feel about the execution?
I think it made sense.
I think it's brilliant. Do you remember where you were when you heard The Master for the first time? and how you felt, and then also what kind of stereo would you have played it on for yourself?
Well, Scott had played in a number of bands before Earth Crisis, and he'd been to Penguin to record, so he actually had a pretty good handle on as to what was going on, even at that early stage. You know, he, he'd been paying attention in the sound booth and in the control room. So we did, you know, we played it in different vehicles on different stereos, which is, you know, what we would do to this day. And, you know, Bill Karecki, he did, he brought, he brought his magic.
I mean, it was probably victory's idea. Now that I think about it more so than our idea, you know, I mean, I think that, that I think Tony is probably the one who, who pushed for us to go to Mars because he, you know, he'd had success with other bands going there.
What was your relationship with him like at that time?
Well, he was the singer of even score to me. Right. You know, the label was still new, you know, it was Iceburn and a couple other bands, but I love that even score seven inch. And I thought that, you know, the same thing. I mean, like lyrically, I felt like, you know, straight edge was, was moving away from, from slogans towards becoming more of an actual ideology, something that people would adhere to. And I, I got that vibe from him.
Do you remember playing the recording for any of your close friends? and their reactions to it?
Yeah. Earth Crisis played some shows at the Lost Horizon, and we would open with the intro to All Out War, which is very melodic.
And I remember being on stage, and Scott and Ben were playing the intro, and looking at my some of my friends like jt or giant cannon and they were looking sideways at each other like this is carl's band and then it obviously kicks in and gets heavy and i remember seeing them like laugh and like push each other a little bit i was like okay there it is you know so yeah i i remember little moments like that but bringing you know bringing those songs back and playing them for friends it was pretty
amazing they were like wow it's like it sounds like does have you a zero tolerance. So, I mean, that was an incredibly, that was an incredible compliment to hear.
Yeah. Let's jump into the art a little bit, even though you kind of alluded that you don't like it. Um, who was in charge of the, the art for the seven inch?
I think it might've been, uh, people at victory. Like, I don't ever really remember approving any of that.
Do you remember where the back cover was shot?
I believe it was the More Than Music Fest in Dayton, Ohio.
Congrats on your memory, dude. That's amazing.
Yeah.
Holy cow. Okay, and then this is super minor, but we got to dive in. The labels on the record say Eden's Demise, but it's actually the Unseen Holocaust song. Who was crucified for that mistake?
Probably an underling at Victory by Tony.
And then Eden's Demise just gets put out on the CD EP only? Is that just because there's a time limitation on the 7-inch?
I would think that would be the reasoning, yes.
You never talked about the idea of doing a 10-inch or a 12-inch EP?
I would love to re-record that, even if it was just live. Even if we just went into a room and just let the tape run. I've wanted to do that with Firestormy and Destroy the Machines.
Well, I love that re-release that came out that was just one on each side. That's like the perfect re-release. Yeah. So rad. Do you remember when the record officially came out? Because it's hard for us looking back when we just see a year. You know, there's obviously a big difference between January and December.
I do not remember what season. I do not.
And then do you remember the immediate response from your fans and also your friends and your peers?
I think that some people were a little put off by the militant aspect of it. Some people were put off by you know, at the time how metal it was. But overall, I mean, I think most people, you know, they viewed it for what it was, which was, you know, art. You know, it was self-expression and it did pretty well. I mean, I'm pretty sure we went to England off of those two 7-inches before Destroy the Machines was even out.
Right, because right there you kind of focus on the negative, but it's like... For every naysayer, there's like 10 converts, right? This thing explodes.
Oh, far more than that. Far more than that. Yeah, I mean, Victory was a rising label, you know? And they were doing things that I think were maybe a little bit more avant-garde than New Age or Revelation at the time. So I think we fit in well there. And if people were gravitating to that label, they knew that they were going to get something a little bit different, you know? So that was helpful, too, because that was already kind of established.
How did the band deal with the criticism of Earth Crisis being called militant?
Well, I mean, I thought it was odd, because obviously... Um, you know, I, I would do interviews and I'd say, you know, I'm, I'm in school. I would, I'm, you know, working towards hopefully one day being, uh, a professor who teaches history. You know, my mother, um, was a voice professor at Krauss college and SU. She directed the opera workshop and my father, uh, I believe he was an assistant professor for a time at SU or Environmental Science and Forestry School.
Yeah, I think he was an assistant professor for landscape architecture. And my aunt was also a professor and obviously their circle of friends. So I thought, oh, I've been fascinated by history since I was a kid. And And that's what Firestorm was about. It was about the Black Panthers resisting the drug plague in their neighborhoods. And come to find out, by the end of the 80s, that the CIA was involved with some of the smuggling of those substances.
And Unseen Holocaust, again, about history and Eden's demise. I mean, we were documenting the history that was going on around us. Some of our friends were becoming addicts. Some of our friends were selling drugs. Back then, before things collapsed here in Syracuse, there was the acid rain in our region and the Adirondack region that was destroying the marine life on the different lakes.
Obviously, Onondaga Lake, I referenced it earlier when we first started the interview about how utterly devastated that was from pollution. So, yeah, I thought it was odd if people had a quote-unquote problem with us. I mean, I think we had too much respect and love for bands like Judge and Youth of Today and Instead and Upfront to try to be a clone of them. And we wanted to do our own thing. And I'm glad that we took that route.
any of the backlash to the militants, um, did that affect your touring at all? And were there ever any confrontational moments, uh, with people on tour?
There were some confrontational moments, but I mean, they were very few and very far between and they, they really weren't with kids from the hardcore scene.
Awesome. Let's see here. Pre-internet rumors are, they spread wildfire within hardcore in a really bizarre manner. What was the strangest thing that you ever heard about your band at that time? I
remember we were playing in Colorado, and this guy was drunk at the bar, and he had obviously been part of the straight-ed scene there at one time. And he was making comments after we played like, oh, you won't be straight edge in a couple years. You'll be out of the whole thing. You're making all this noise about it because you're trying to prove it to yourselves. And I remember not getting angry.
I remember saying, well, I mean, after seeing what has happened to members of my family and kids that I grew up with, I can guarantee you, man, I'm going to be vegan straight edge forever. I'm never going to stray from it. And, you know, rather than the guy saying, oh, I respect that, like he got, things got heated. And this was with an absolute stranger.
And I remember thinking that was incredible, that this absolute stranger was angry at me because I told him that strange to me was a lifetime commitment. And I'll never forget that. I thought that was bizarre.
Yeah, looking back, like at the nineties and how much like he, you guys got for being, you know, wearing your heart on your sleeve. Isn't it kind of amazing? Like you guys won, you stayed true to like everything you said, right? Like that's wild to me.
Yeah. Vegan straight edge is now, you know, during that time, I mean, it was, it was abnegation and catalyst records and, uh, Canon and, Just, you know, one band after another, green rage and contempt. I mean, it was growing year by year. You know, bands and scenes were emerging and rising, and it was incredible. And now we're at the point where it's not just the U.S. and Canada, it's the world.
So that is, you know, that is kind of an amazing thing to see happen, especially with the exceedingly rocky start that we got.
Right. You're a loud voice. And, but like, do you believe that you're like, you really are a part of that snowball that like ends up, you know, in 2022, like you get a beyond burger at Carl's jr. You know what I mean? And at burger King, they got like the impossible. Like there is like a groundswell that starts like in an underground scene that blows up. And, you know, when you live your life by example, you affect other people who affect other people who affect other people.
Like how much of a part do you think you have in, in, modern zeitgeist of how easy it is to be plant-based now?
Well, I mean, I think it's everybody, you know? I mean, it's conflict and propaganda and, you know, Billy Joe from Green Day saying, oh, I'm going to have a veggie dog when he was getting interviewed on MTV. I mean, it's all of us together pushing for the same thing.
You don't want to take a little bigger piece of that, Carl?
Well, I'm just saying it's all of us together,
you know? No, I respect that. I respect that. I just think that your piece is a little bigger because you took a lot of the daggers for it.
Well, yeah, we definitely took some daggers. That's true.
Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about how Earth Crisis's popularity was affected by the release of Firestorm? Like immediately it comes out. what is the difference in the band? Like you go from playing rooms to how many people to playing rooms to how many people?
Yeah. I mean, we started in very small clubs. Then we were at like 500 capacity rooms. Next thing, you know, we were like selling out like club baby head in Rhode Island or the Trocadero in Pennsylvania or tramps of the wetlands in New York city. Um, it was pretty amazing. Like, um, things progressed, you know, because we put a lot of time in. I mean, we would go out and do, you know, we wouldn't do a string of dates. You know, we wouldn't do 10 shows or two weeks.
We would go out for seven weeks and then we'd come back for a few and go out again for another seven week tour. And then we'd go to Europe or Japan. I mean, we were just relentless. Like everyone was incredibly motivated and devoted to the whole mission of it. So it was a beautiful thing to be able to focus on exclusively on being a creative musician and being a performer.
You know, the problems with labels or promoters or people saying that we're too metal or that they didn't like our lyrical approach or what have you. I mean, it never bothered me. I mean, because the proof was there, you know? If we were so close-minded... then why were we still friends with all the guys we grew up riding BMX or skateboarding with? If we were so close-minded, why were we on tour with Madball and Crown of Thorns and Scarhead and everybody else and Damnation? You know what I mean?
Absolutely. Because we didn't just stay within the straight edge scene or try to create an alternate version of it through vegan straight edge. I mean, we were out there just a part of the New York hardcore scene. Playing with everybody, you know, doing tours of Europe, everything else.
How, how was the seven inch received or overseas? And when was the first time that you went out there to promote it?
That I don't know that I couldn't tell you. I mean, the odds are high. We were there with strife or snap case first. So we probably combined forces for our first European tour. but I'm pretty sure we went over and played festivals on our own first. If memory serves correct.
Right on. Do you have any memories of like going over and playing like large festivals? Like how did that feel?
I mean, we knew that, you know, bands like Slapshot and Sick of It All and Agnostic Front and Biohazard. I mean, in the, you know, all the hard work that all the founding fathers of New York Hardcore did you know, in the late eighties, in the mid to late eighties was like, they were finally breaking in Europe and they were doing really well. They were doing as well as metal bands in some places in Germany and Belgium and Holland.
Like those festivals were massive and we were very fortunate to be able to go over there and play them.
Looking back on Firestorm, where do you think it fits in the history of Earth Crisis?
I mean, I would say it's, it's, it is our true first record. You know, it's like all at war is the, is the prehistory.
Where do you think it fits? Like in the, the lexicon of, of straight edge hardcore?
I mean, that would, I know what it means to me. I know what it means to our fans. I mean, that, that'll be for others to determine, you know,
Yeah. Well, and then this is even broader, but where do you think it fits into hardcore in general, like going all the way back?
I mean, you know, we are, we are a Syracuse speaking strange band. We are a New York hardcore band where we've been a part of all this stuff from the beginning. Um, nothing's ever changed. You know, we're, we tried to set things up in such a way that what we composed would be unique. You know, it would stand out. There would be some differential. And I think that, you know, I think that Firestorm holds up. I do.
Like we played On Seat Holocaust in Japan a couple years ago and I was like, wow, that's not too bad for a bunch of 22-year-old kids.
Right. Yeah. You talked a little bit about respecting like those youth group bands so much that you didn't want to rehash it and you did their own thing. How did you feel about all of like the earth crisis clones that follow like post firestorm and post your first LP?
Well, I mean, first off I got to say, you know, when shelter called to ask us to tour with them, I thought it was a prank, but it was my buddy JT. I was like, this can't be real. Ray Campbell and Purcell want us to play with them. And it turned out it was real. And we did a tour with them. And Ray would have me do Break Down the Walls every night. So that was like an incredible honor for us. Because I absolutely love all the Revelation bands.
You know, the New Age and Indecision and the Tang bands. I mean, they are why we wanted to be a part of this thing. So, you know, it was incredible to meet some of these guys, you know, or, or be there and in Germany and have choke with slap shot on stage, say, Hey, this next song goes out to earth crisis, even if they are vegetarians. I mean, just a little Barb joke, but at the same time, I mean, you put straight edge in your face out to us. So it's like, wow, this is, this is amazing.
This is amazing that these guys value us, you know?
Right.
So yeah, it was, it was incredible honor. And yeah, you know, when guys were influenced by Earth Crisis, I was like, that's awesome. I'll definitely guest on your record or we'll definitely play shows together because that's how I've always seen this. I've always seen this as a collective.
I've always wanted this to be a tribe, all of us together, you know, trying to create a heightened awareness of animal rights and environmentalism and, you know, shine a very, a very, uh, revealing light as to what the drug cartels and the pharmaceutical companies have been doing to society
you mentioned that you thought that shelter call was a prank call um you were kind of known as a low-key to notorious prankster like back then like as a crank caller dude do you have any you have any moments you want to share with us on that tip
Not so much on that, but I think that this is funny. I want to say this, you know, because we would prank our bosses at work or stuff like that, or bosses that had fired us, things of that type. But I will say this, you know, people would say, you know, like 89, 90, 91, oh, I've heard of Earth Crisis. You know, I think I heard your band. And they had never heard our band. They had just seen the graffiti that we put up all over the city.
You
know, because we hadn't recorded yet. Right. But it was cool because it let people know that we were out there and that we were, you know, our band was in its origin stages, but we had yet to record. But people are like, oh, yeah, you know what? I think I heard you guys. And they had just probably driven by it a million times on their way to work or school or whatever, you know, because we were out there all the time. That rules. Yeah.
Is there anything you think we missed about like this era?
No, and I'm sorry, you know, I don't, you know, have more details on like the mix or the master or settings or things of that type. I mean, honestly, Scott or Bulldog would be the go-to guys for that. But I mean, I think we covered like the, just kind of the spirit that we had when we did it and, you know, the intention, the meaning. I feel like we have kind of clarified and defined all that stuff. Probably about, you know, in more depth than has ever been done in an interview.
It was cool to kind of focus on that one 7-inch.
Right. I mean, it's almost 30 years old. So, like, your memory is pretty immaculate. You know, it's better than mine.
And that's the thing. I mean, you know, what was that a prediction of? Firestorm was a prediction that at some point, just like it had happened in the 60s and 70s, when the drug plague gets so bad, people will rebel against it. Whether the police departments and the courts are willing to make the arrest or prosecute, people will rebel. And we've seen that in Mexico with auto defense. We've seen it in Ireland with direct action against drugs.
And in other parts of Central and South America and Southeast Asia as well, in the Philippines. I mean, people have literally rebelled against the cartel and the gang violence that is happening. and turn their neighborhoods into war zones. So, you know, it was a prediction of a people's uprising that has definitely come true in all different areas of the earth at this point.
Well, I got to thank you for taking so much time and let me punish you on a single year in your history.
Oh, man, that was an incredible year because it was like the first true victory. Like all at war was thrown together. The original covers were made at Kinko's Copy Center on recycled paper and were literally folded over. To be on a legit label with colored vinyl and real distribution and be sent to a studio where we got a quality recording, it was a crucial, crucial moment in the progression of our band.
Thanks so much for your time, Carl.
Okay, thank you.
All right, bye-bye.
Bye. This is Scott Vogel from Terror. I'm going to go off on a little bit of an Earth Christ tangent here. The first time I ever heard the band, I was living in Buffalo, really close to Syracuse, so I'd go to shows there all the time. And this kid walked up to me with this huge cut across his whole face and was selling hand-to-hand Earth Crisis all-out war seven inches. And I think I was like, yo, what happened to your face?
And he said – I don't know if this is true because if you know Ben Reed, he's a character. But he told me he was like – I was liberating some animal from a cage, and I got my face ripped open. So I was like, all right. At the time, I was like, whoa, these guys mean business. Went home, listened to that record, immediately called up Tim Redman, who was the drummer of Slugfest at the time. If you're listening to this, you probably know him from the drummer of Snapcase.
And I was like, you're not going to believe this record I got.
And we became instant super fans due to their – energy and gang vocals and insane lyrics and insane sound then saw the band and it was insanity always uh then i became friends with ben the old guitarist who sold me the record and who had maybe the best stage presence i've ever seen in my life of a hardcore guitarist fast forward to he sent me what was the day he called it he sent it to me in the mail it said earth crisis lp but this is what people know as the the demo the nine or ten song demo
and he said in the letter because again he's a character this is your new favorite record because he had that much uh confidence and obviously it was fucking amazing and insane and the lyrics were insane and carl's voice was insane um I say all this to get to when the fire and then, you know, some of the songs came out. They signed a victory. Firestorm comes out. They fucking take over the whole world. They have the craziest live show for many, many fucking years.
And they are still the realest, coolest fucking people. Nothing but props. Still vegan. Still straight edge. Nothing but props to Earth Crisis. I fucking love this band.
All right, I'm Poi. I was born in Salford in 1972, and I've been straight-edged since I was 17. I'm a founding member of Rotting Hell, who are an apparently invisible hardcore band based in the north of England. Thanks to Dan for asking me to share my thoughts about the Firestorm EP. I thought I'd write down some brief notes, but it's turned into a bit of an essay, so I'm going to try and pick out some important bits.
Thinking about the overall sound of the record, I think there's definitely a progression from the No Legion CP, which I'd probably prefer, but I don't think we can ignore the heaviness of this record. Maybe not by 21st century standards, but I do think it holds up. The chugs on the title track and on the other tracks really lend the heaviness, along with the grating vocals provide a really powerful platform to hold record and its message.
Of course the music is very simple and there aren't any fast songs but the use of artificial harmonics, palm muting and dive bombs are absolutely perfect. It seems to evoke a sense of hope and positivity and controlled aggression.
Of course thinking more critically about the themes and certain lyrics some aspects are grossly oversimplified around complex issues but on the other hand Although it did seem like a manifesto and a bit of a design for life at the time, it's really just a brief snapshot, but it does have an important legacy. There isn't time for me to discuss each of the songs individually in the time that's available, but I would say that the three songs on the EP and the four on the CD seem to be...
You know, it shows that this seems to be the most preferable format for hardcore. I don't think there's... Probably anything else that can be said about the first two tracks that hasn't already been said. But looking at Unseen Holocaust, that comes in at almost five minutes. And I guess that's the reason why there wasn't room for Eden's Demise on the 7-inch. And I'd say it's probably as good as Run to the Hills and definitely better than Indians.
But seriously, they create great texture with simple melody and progressive parts in this song. I was really lucky to have a very, very small part in bringing Earth Crisis over to the UK for two exclusive European gigs in 1994 at the famous 1 in 12 club in Bradford in Yorkshire, which is also the home of Ironside and the Crossbow Cannibal. So this gig was pre-Destroy the Machines, but they were playing songs from that record and they sounded so sick.
But I don't think actually those songs really translated well to the eventual release of that record. But those gigs were absolutely phenomenal. And I had headbang my way through both sets. Yeah, they were awesome. Think about the impact of that record. We know, I think the impact was massive. And the scene that I was part of at the time, it seemed that everybody was vegan on Straight Edge. They undoubtedly either captured or constructed the zeitgeist of this era.
Predominantly with these four songs, I think, and I don't think that could be understated. In terms of the legacy of this record, we've seen, again, a resurgence in the last five years. There's still an appetite for this music and the message of this music, or at least some aspects of this message. And I hope it doesn't prove to be simple 90s nostalgia now that everybody's wearing baggy jeans again. Trying to sum up, overall, this is a phenomenal record with a lasting legacy.
hinted at potential that i don't think the band to date have ever quite realized that said chapeau to earth crisis you rule up the vegan straight edge and the two-phase losers
what's up y'all this is javier um You might know me from the podcast, Where It Went, where we are discussing the Revelation Records discography in chronological order. I've also played in bands and stuff. I actually played with Earth Crisis on their first tour in California at Showcase Theater in a band I was in at the time.
And my band members were late to the stage because they took Carl to Del Taco and Carl could not believe that Del Taco was like so good and such a thing, but I'm really, I wanted to know if you had a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior, the Firestorm 7-inch. Look, the bottom line is that the Firestorm 7-inch really changed a lot for hardcore.
There were Animal Rights and Straight Edge together before this record, but because of its Place on Victory Records, it reached a number of people that it wasn't able to reach with these other vehicles before. And also it was just the right time. People were looking for maybe something heavier and a little more technical than like Youth of Today No More or the Statement 7-inch or the Vegan Reich Records.
And so Firestorm, as soon as it hits you with those chugs at the beginning, which might seem... and might seem lifted from Slayer, they're actually genius in their delivery, like the daylight between the notes and the way that it just pummels and then the weird noises from the dive bombs in the background. It's an onslaught that maybe people weren't expecting, but they needed. And...
Firestorm, the song itself became such an anthem and became played by, you know, so many people and the band has probably played it at every concert they've ever played. I personally, I'm kind of sick of that song. I don't, I usually leave by the time they play that because I'm winded now and I just, I just don't really need to hear or see it again. But if the band plays Firestorm, Unseen Holocaust or Eden's Demise, which to me, Unseen Holocaust is the best track on the record.
And it, man, this record just really, I can't. state enough how important this record is to the cause of animal rights, to getting people to think, getting people to discuss things, having conversations, and some of the controversy that it creates.
um sprung and some of the you know arguments i'm sure that happened over the years because of it all of that was really important to the legacy of the record and to its place in hardcore because if it had just come and you know people just accepted it I don't think it would have just had the same impact. It really needed that static and that's like controversy in order for people to pay attention a little bit more. And I don't think that's what the band was intending when they put it out.
This is not a troll. You know, they weren't trying to get people to argue with them. This is more of like a mission statement and a real springboard for the. animal liberation and animal rights movements in hardcore. So I encourage you today to put some headphones on and listen in to the entire earth crisis discography in chronological order. I've done it and it's, it's worth the endeavor. So thanks. I'll see y'all later.
What's up, everyone? I hope everyone enjoyed that episode, and I wanted to thank everyone who took part in making it happen. I'm really proud of this episode as well as the Madball Set It Off episode, and I wanted to have the Lifetime Hello Bastards one come off kind of like these, but we didn't pull it off. But hey, test run. I think we got it kind of well-oiled now. Please let me know if you want us to keep doing episodes like this from time to time. They are super labor-intensive.
They take a lot of time, but I do think they're important for documenting hardcore, especially some of these tentpole albums. There's a handful that I want to do, but let me know if you dig this or not. I mean, no hard feelings if you don't. You know what I mean? But yeah, reach out, 185milesouth at gmail.com. Hit me up on social media, 185milesouth on Instagram and Twitter. That's the way to get in touch. Respect to everyone who helped out, and we will talk to you all next week.