162. Doug Carrion (Descendents/Dag Nasty/Field Day)

On February 24th, they're playing San Diego at the Soda Bar. February 25th, they're playing Long Beach, Alex's Bar. And on the 26th, they are playing Dr. Strange Records. Also wanted to shout out to Friends of the Pod, Anchorfish Printing. If you got a label, you got a distro, you got a band, you got to hit up Anchorfish. They have been printing for over 15 years. They used to be the guys, they were called Hellfish before. but this is their newer name.

Get at them at anchor fish underscore printing on Instagram. If you mention one 85, you get 10% off. So that's what's up. And yeah, we've never done ads on this pod. I've never felt good about it. So friends of the pod, get at me. You get free shout outs whenever, just cause we love you, dude. So, but yeah, get an anchor fish 15 years in business printing. Fuck. I'd like to say that

We get to find out who's a better surfer, him or Fletcher. And so, yeah, stay tuned and let's get on with the pod. 185milesouth.com

I'm going to go with, I wanted to be able to go as fast as humanly possible and Punk rock was kind of like an extension of that really aggressive, kind of like fast, aggressive, wide open, full throttle lifestyle. And so that's basically it. I grew up in Hermosa Beach. And in that, when you have Black Flag and the Descendants and the Circle Jerks within one square mile of you, what else do you need for God's sake? I was like, there you go. Yeah.

Those were some of the, um, that was, I guess, as memory serves me as the first one I had seen a band I had seen, um, I guess you could say kind of like a, a new wavy kind of punk show before that, when I was a little bit younger, I had seen, um, the Dickies and Jim Carroll, um, play in at the country club in Reseda up that way. Uh, but the first official like circle jerk show TS well show double bill, uh, at the Starwood on Santa Monica Boulevard.

And when I heard, um, black flag or the circle jerks or TSL or, uh, descendants for that matter, uh, it was the same kind of crazy, crazy rush only in music form. So what was super scary, um, was also something that was really attractive at the same time.

It would have been just as common to see a performance artist. playing with a punk band and an acoustic artist playing with a punk band on the same shows. Example, one of the first times I saw Bad Religion at the Whiskey A Go-Go, they played with a rockabilly band. So everything kind of was a bit of a mishmash, but a little bit later, so I'm going to say by about Oh, maybe about like 1982, 1983.

It definitely got taken over in my community by the skaters and the surfers and the gang guys and the jocks. And it was just a full blown battle. Every show was a battle. So it, it moved a couple of clicks removed from the from the art art connection and moved way more into the full high-octane adrenaline connection, if that makes any sense.

In a way, you couldn't have more different of a lifestyle when you're talking about what Agnostic Front was doing and dealing with an I-can't-speak-for-the-New-York-hardcore-scene Right. Okay. I mean,

And then, but definitely faster and harder and different than these mask bands. And then it seems like a couple of years later, you have like full on suicidal tendencies, gang shit, million miles an hour, mystic records, like 400 bands that are playing that fast beat that come out of nowhere. And I see that as like, stages of an evolution does that is that fair

my head, all were recorded within a six-month period of each other. I

Um, I apologize for nerding out, but you, I scratched my head and I'm like, damn, that was, that was some fertile soil for, can people go, people go and swing in for the bleachers in a very compact time zone, time area and, and geographic area as well.

So just saying like, is there a, is there a musically, is there something in between like that mask scene and full blown shredder hardcore? Yeah.

And so I think that it was just the next crop of people that were going to go at the punk thing were younger, and it just came off faster. So I don't really think there was a middle ground as that late 70s crew got older, got more – experimental into the drug culture or whatever that is, died off, got burned out, whatever they were doing. The next group of kids were like coming at it with maybe even a sharper sword, you know?

But there's no, I don't believe there's any, in answering your question, I'm sorry, I don't believe there's any middle ground. It was like, it was a transition from one into the other.

So as, and we're going, I must be in, I'm pretty young. Maybe I'm like in 10th grade, like, you know, something like that. So I don't know if 1982 is accurate, but let's just go with that for a second. Whatever. I won't challenge that. But so, By the time I, yeah, maybe, maybe, we were all kind of hanging out and doing the punk thing and going to shows and all that stuff. But now in comes the second, I guess you could say character into the story, which is this guy named Scott Ziegler.

Now, Scott was a kid that I grew up with and I knew him from grade school way back. Scott was the guy that introduced me to like the fall of, Joy Division, a lot of what was coming out of England. And he was even punk before I was punk and already over it. So Scott used to kind of give me a hard time being like, dude, how could you be listening to Wasted Youth? Why would you listen to those records?

You should be listening to Joy Division and Lemon Kittens and the Swell Maps and all these really noisier records.

angular bands that's why as i was experimenting yes i could do a hardcore thing with fletcher because fletcher and i loved minor threat records and stuff like that but i also like the band you're referencing from the mystic compilations was a lot to me to my ear a lot like the birthday party very very noisy so you know those are kind of almost like two lanes also i got to see the minute men like as a kid. And that was just a huge influence on what punk could be.

If you even want to call what they do punk, like just it, it's own weird, abstract chop, you know, angular. Like I got what gang of four was doing from Scott, but then I go and I like start listening to the minute man. And I'm like, Holy smokes, D Boone and Mike Watt and George are, doing their own flip on that Southern California style. So that's why I can kind of, maybe I can ride both sides of the fence where I was very comfortable with noisier projects.

I started listening to, you know, Kraftwerk and bands way back, way back, way back when. The Cure and all that stuff, when it was... super uncool. Uh, in my like skater punk world, that would have been like a no fly zone, but in my more arty punker world, that's what they listened to. They didn't like, they were kind of already over the wasted youths of the world. If you will, they wouldn't, they wouldn't like a GBH, you know?

Black Flag got run out of town, and there was all kinds of problems there. We were kind of like the next... you turn the page and here comes con 800. So we were public enemy number one down there as well. And so it didn't really have too long of a run, maybe, maybe a year and a half or two years. And I would say the most notable would be playing house parties that were full destruction.

House parties were like the poor kid that put on the party, like his house got, you know, a hundred thousand dollars worth of damage. I mean, those were, wild wild wild punker shows what punker punker parties you know beach punker parties so if that answers your question it didn't go very far and then i kind of bailed uh out of that and was doing way more of the experimental stuff and then as i left out of the experimental stuff then i started playing in descendants

But if you were to, even the current Con 800 stuff or the demos or whatever you go, yep, that's when I'm doing the kind of more aggressive, hardcore, we'll call it the minor thready kind of vocal. That's what it sounds like.

And The Barn is where I saw Descendants and Circle Jerks and, you know, one of those kinds of shows. One of the bands that I saw at The Barn was this band called The Mongrels. And The Mongrels were a very birthday party-esque band. Very, very, very noisy.

john napier who's now deceased was the singer in that band and when i wasn't doing um when i wasn't doing the con 800 thing he had asked me he's like dude i know you play bass would you be interested in jamming i want to start a new project and so we started this project called incest cattle that was um I'm going to say probably more along the, it's definitely more of an art project than it was a punk project. It was a very peculiar angular band. We did one demo.

The demo was recorded by Paul Cutler and Don Bowles, both of the germ or the germs and 45 grave. You could find that on a cassette that, that, Craig Ibera does out of San Pedro. And I want to say it's water under the bridge is the really, really small mom and pop record label that does it. And like, you could find the demo. It floats out there on cassette for, I don't know what a dollar, $10 or whatever it is.

If you're, if you want to do a deep dive on some of my noisier very, very birthday party, angular, angular music, running side when i was wearing that hat when i wasn't wearing the punk hat or maybe they're both punk

It was a pretty dumpy studio. You know, dumpy studio with an office. But there you go. That's how that was back then.

How did you join the Descendants and was joining the Descendants kind of like, you know... joining the Beatles at the time? Was it like, Oh my God, I can't believe I'm in this band now that I look up to. And I've been going to see all these years or was it, or was it more like you were just buddies with them?

So he would be the guy, bless his freaking heart, that would get up in front of the class and explain everything. why this fishing rod worked in this particular way or why smoking fish was, you know, like he had like a smoker that you could smoke fish, things like that. So that's how we became friends. I did not know Milo other than I knew Milo from around school and he was a couple of grades older than me.

Then a little bit later when I was a sophomore, Bill was really in his fishing, stinky, wear a sleeping bag to school phase. So we Bill looked more like a homeless guy at school and we were still friendly and so forth. A couple years later, I'm moving a little bit further on the clock. When I was in Incest Cattle, we talked about this, Bill used to run at the track at the high school because Bill used to live close by there.

Paul, the drummer of Incest Cattle, worked at the high school as a janitor. Drummers talk. Paul had given Bill a demo, the one that Paul Cutler and Don Bowles did, that demo, and had said, yeah, I'm in a band with Doug. Do you know Doug? And Bill's like, yeah, I know Doug. I remember him from school. Okay. Snapshot a little bit later, maybe about two years later, I'm walking my dog and I'm not at home. And in Hermosa Beach, it's a very, very small town.

And I go to my door and there's this scribbled note tape to my door and it's like hey Doug it's Bill I was wondering if you could call me at SST this is pre-answering machines or anything like that it's like what that's how far back this story goes ladies and gentlemen and so a little bit later that day I called him up and he was at SST he comes down from SST which was at Artesia and Inglewood which you figure is about three about three miles from my home in Hermosa comes down to the beach

house. He's very kind of secretive. And he says to me, you know, at the time he's in black flag and he says, you know, basically I'm in black flag. I'm getting ready to leave black flag. I'm doing a descendants record. Tony can't do it because Tony has full-time work obligations. Would you be interested in trying out? And I'm like, yes. And he says, where do you practice? And I said, right here at the house in the basement. And he's like, I have my drums in the car.

I'm like, load them around back, baby. And we loaded it in. And Bill and I did our first bass and drum jam where we probably played and just ripped the neighbors apart for about two hours. We stopped. We walked to La Panita, which was a half a block away. Yes, the same La Panita from the Greenfield Day record. We had burritos. We put my base equipment back in his gray VW bus. We drove out to SST. We practiced even more with Ray.

And kind of like about by that night, like Bill and I didn't separate. Like he came back to my house and slept on my floor and would park his van up the block. And I was in the band and it just was like that. So there's that. Was it like joining the Beatles? That might be a little bit of a thing. It's certainly a band that I absolutely loved, but the band wasn't really that popular. So, you know, let's keep in perspective. Milo goes to college, sold 2000 records.

So you're not talking about a band that's like gigantic. You're talking about a baby band still. If that answers your question there.

And you'd play to six people and baby, that's all it was six people. And that's where you were. And you're in Tuscaloosa or some strange, strange city. So when to put things in perspective, there were more shows playing to playing to under 10 people than there were playing to, uh, over 300 people or over a hundred people, like way, just, it's a whole different, just put it in perspective, man. It's like, that's a, that was a band that was like on an independent record label.

There's very, very little infrastructure. You're going into these markets that like you're going into cities where there might be literally 10 punk people and you're just crossing your fingers and hoping all 10 show up.

That's it, man. That's what it's about. All the other stuff is sometimes, um, i don't know maybe extra extra

He's like, if you do this here and you do that there and you do this there, it just might be a song.

And so Bill helped with the orchestration because he's, really good at that Milo leaned in on the words because that's Milo's great at lyrics as is Bill way better than I am and that was maybe one of the first times the Descendants played a song like that with a much more straighter bass line meaning the Joy Division Cure Ramones Doug style of straight line as opposed to how phenomenal tony is he's super busy how phenomenal carl is super busy like i can play like that but i don't play like that

but those ninjas do and they're great at it but that would be a song that like that was one of those straight eights straight 16s um there you go

Um, and you know, Dag Nasty was great. Um, the following winter, we are up in Buffalo and Dagnasty goes out to see, they're going to go out and do about eight shows or so with Descendants. This time, Brian has Dave on vocals. Okay. And then the following summer, Descendants are getting ready to go out and do another run of shows. And Descendants are probably doing 90 shows or more. And Dagnasty is going to jump on about 25 of them or 30 of them. Okay. And so this time, It's Peter on vocals.

Now, in that really quick period of time, and I'll answer your question. I did not forget it. What's amazing about Dagnasty is in that very, very quick period of time, Brian had gone through three singers, recorded a record. Dave had already done his, I think Dave only did seven shows or eight shows total. And I got to see all the shows they did with Peter. So, you know, there's that.

As that tour came to a close, I was kind of winding down my working with Descendants and looking toward, well, what's next? Brian had decided to come out to Los Angeles and we were like, hey, maybe we'll do a project together or whatever. During that time, so you're talking like late 86. During that time, Brian Brad from Doggystyle doesn't have players, and I'm friends with Brad through the Descendants and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we were like, sure, let's do it.

We'll help you record a record. And that's what that Doggyrock record was. And then as that kind of... This is, again, a teeny period of time, three months, like a really short period of time. By the time that had already run its course, Brian and I were in Hermosa Beach writing songs for the Wig Out of Dankos record. So very, very quick, like talk about moving a mile a minute. By the time that tour had ended in the summer, Brian comes out and is hanging out with me in Southern California.

We record the Doggy Style record because Brad doesn't have players. Brian's ready to get back to the East Coast. He wants to reboot Dag Nasty. We start writing songs. godfather and all written in hermosa beach at the 230 33rd street house while we're eating la panita like that's how that went down

And that was... kind of the way it unfolded and i just took out my record player and put on can i say and started learning songs and then once i kind of had a bunch of songs under my belt um then we started working out ideas you know like uh exercise and godfather and songs like that you know what i mean just you know just started working on songs

Now, for Doug, for me, I really love that Milo goes to college one minute, 30 second kind of like nugget, and Bill was leaning a little bit more into the here in my van process of weeding out direction of writing. Neither are better, worse, right, wrong. I knew that the next batch of songs, I was like, I think I'm going to kind of take a swing at doing some writing with Brian. And I don't think Bill was like, he wasn't hurt or bummed or anything like that.

Keep in mind, it was literally like friends just like, okay, dude, you know, Call me if you need anything. Okay, no problem. You know, no big deal. So there was no animosity. In fact, I seem to remember after I had left, you know, Bill being the nice guy that he is, like would come to my house and like write me a check for like, I don't know, whatever, $8 or $800 or whatever the descendants that last tour had made. And so we've never had any bad blood at all.

And I think it was just not even a difference of opinion as much as just difference of writing direction and where I was trying to kind of harness closer to a Milo goes to college punk nugget. And he wanted to do a little bit more stretching. a little bit further out on more parts and so forth. Hopefully that answers your question.

In fact, in fact, just at punk rock bowling, just recently in 2021, Bill and I talked about this and he just, his explanation is, dude, I just had to keep going. I had no choice. You know, he kind of, you know, he just in a way didn't really, maybe, maybe he felt bad a little bit that like, you know, Right. Yeah. He's like, dude, I'm sorry. I had to keep grinding. Meaning he needed to like, hey, dude, we're going back out on tour. Hey, dude, we're going back out on tour. We're going again.

We're going again. We're going again. That was what he had to do. So

Third, DC is a very funny, they're a funny way where anytime anything looks the slightest bit like capitalism or like you're trying to make something more popular, that bums them out. So for them, well, let's look at it like this. In my perspective, I'm like, oh, wow, we're playing a show. Maybe the idea is we should tell people. So instead of six people showing up, 60 people show up or 160.

So I'm a big proponent of you stand on top of the mountain and you tell people like, hey, come out to the show. A lot of the DC people are like, we only want to do shows to our friends and then our band's going to break up. talk about totally different, like couldn't be more different, you know, more different. Like I I'm, you know, Hey, let's like, let's try to tell people about the show.

And for them there, I mean, you remember both of you guys might even know there was a time where they might've done shows and not even made flyers, like just like only you only like only that 12 people or whatever it was would go to the show.

I'm not going to say that to toss those people under the bus. That's just how they rock. For example... I still talk to Ian. And the fact that like that guy would not be in Rolling Stone or whatever magazine, because dude, you guys sell alcohol and you sell tobacco. Like I can't be in your magazine. And that he held that ideal this whole time. That's badass. Like awesome. You know, that's who's, I can't judge and say that that's wrong. I can only say like, wow, that's, it's kind of rad.

You know, it's kind of rad, his ideals and sticking to his ideals. And one of those things is, you know, they're really quite, that crew is kind of sensitive of things looking too sales-like, you know what I mean? Too salesman-like. You know what I mean? I don't know. Maybe it's that they're... Because they're... The ones that I've met in the DC world, bright. Very, very smart. So maybe they don't want to come off being ostentatious and gaudy. So they're way more subtle. I don't know.

That's a question for some of that crew.

And then it pops out the other side. So that's the way it works. Silly Doug, when we went to record the wig out of Dankos record, I actually asked Ian about bringing in an outside producer. And I didn't know how committed he was to documenting DC bands. That's what he was doing. I didn't really wrap my head around that where he's really – and I don't say in a negative way. I say in a positive way.

He's kind of like a purist, and he was really trying to capture that, and he was chasing a vibe, and that's how that was. One of the best things that he did as far as a producer goes, in my opinion, was – not allowing the band members to be there when he mixes. That's fascinating. So he would mix the record. Back then, he would put things on cassette. Everybody got it on cassette. They would write their notes, send the notes back to Ian.

And he would maybe consider or throw your note in the trash, one of the two, and away were the mixes. So the idea when you ask, well, what did he do production-wise, he kind of kept the recordings going and on track. But I think his biggest strength was making sure there wasn't a lot of arguing and BS amongst band members by removing band members from the mixing stage.

All the other stuff that I played on, I definitely had something to do with the writing because Brian and I would sit. two feet across from each other. And I would try to play the steadiest baseline possible to his arpeggios and or finger picking. So kind of like simultaneously that was happening at the, you know, not the fall or trying or safe. That was, those were kind of like already mapped out.

But when you listen to the stuff with the straighter lines, exercise or Godfather, things like that, for sure like that, on the Wig Out record. When we got to the Green Field Day record, a lot of it is the same, only I would have to think about things like Things That Make No Sense would be a Doug song. Trouble Is would be a Brian idea.

I would have to go back and look at the sequencing on all that stuff, but what was different about that record, dot, dot, dot, was when we started showing off ideas for the record, we knew it was going to be a wide, there were going to be a bunch of tent posts and different bases on the record as far as areas and different lines that we were going to take on that so that was that and then the other one also was um we did that record where we rehearsed and did pre-production like 30 days back to

back like every day we would rehearse every day and so by the time we got to actually tracking it the band was crazy tight and we tracked all that stuff most of the drum tracking was done in a day and a half Like very fast. Cause the band was already like, we would approach that. We would approach that recording.

This is, I don't know how Nirvana recorded bleach, but let's say the same way record Nirvana recorded bleach or how black Sabbath would just like set up and record it as if they're doing a live show. And then you go back and clean it up. That's kind of how we did that record where it was like, by the time we started getting into the 20th day, we could play all the songs as if it was a, you know, a 45 minute show all the way down top to bottom. Here we go.

So we were very, very, very, very well rehearsed going in.

So they think of it as a bottleneck, which is amazing. You go, wow, that's really wild. So when we started doing the Wig Out of Dankos material live, it was great. It was pretty well. People really responded to it well. We were kind of mixing in the Can I Say and the Wig Out of Dankos stuff, and we were off to the races. When we started doing the Field Day material, the band said, By that time, we had brought in Scott Garrett, and Scott's a really, really, really good drummer.

So the band was freaking incredible. The fans did not like that record. They did not like the record. We're talking like, oh shit, not one of those songs. Now, in retrospect, we didn't really like Remember before where I was talking about like not necessarily worried about like, you know, here's the single and the capitalism part or anything like that. Like we just went and played, we just played the songs and figured if you're going to like it, you're going to like it.

And if you weren't, we were like kind of bummed you didn't like it, but we were like, okay, well, dude, you know, there's probably another awesome band rehearsing right now in their garage and you should go check them out. But I know we didn't even like, We didn't even have the wherewithal, if you will, to like just play the fast songs and then write another record. Like we would just straight up play La Panita or, you know, just like super, super slow songs.

And punkers would just be like, wait a minute. We want to hear circles. Wait a minute. Where's one to two? This isn't my dag nasty. So it got pretty, it was pretty funny. in a way. Cause like we had, we had, uh, maybe out, I don't know, maybe stretched it a bit too far or outgrown the audience a little bit with some, that batch of material was just too, it was just too much. It was just too much for him.

Um, and I'm going to go with, uh, across the board, thumbs down, like 25 thumbs down and, uh, many, many middle fingers and many, many play faster, play fasters.

And we're like, you know, Oh shit, we got to recap. I hope I can curse. We got to recalibrate. And so, um, the next time we recorded, because we spent, we spent a lot of money to record those, that seven inch. It was, it was a lot of money, um, for us. Cause we're like a, Baby Punker Band or whatever.

So by the time it came to recording the Greenfield Day record, our approach was we're going to go in a smaller studio where we have a little bit more time and really try to create some more textures as opposed to trying to pick a great studio where like, okay, guys, you got to get the record done in two days. We just didn't want to do that. And so there, that's how that is and why it never appeared anywhere else.

I think it's just has to do with the timing in which those songs were released and giant wanted to tack it on as the CD. Cause remember CDs were kind of new ish at that time. That was kind of a new, a new thing.

You know, it was like, everybody was pissed off at each other or had a grudge with each other or whatever. And, you know, keep in mind that like the dag guys at that time, when we were living at dag house, like, you know, we would drink beer and have fun and, you know, cause trouble, you know, I mean, you're in your early twenties, isn't that what you're supposed to do? Um, where the, uh, There were a lot of other people in the DC area that looked at that with a little bit of,

So when we moved back to California, there was a point where we were spending a little bit of time in California, a little bit of time in DC, and we would work the West Coast, work the East Coast, and then in the summer, do a big lap. And that was how we mapped out our years. But that's kind of how that unfolded was... Peter has always been, Peter's a very, very, very eccentric guy. So for him being in the DC, he doesn't, he doesn't even want to be in the DC bubble. He's like in his own bubble.

Brian was just doing his own thing.

Scott wouldn't have, Scott would have been also, Scott was more like in, if you're talking the DC scene, like Scott would have been way more like going to trouble funk shows like way over in the like go-go community he had a lot more friends in the go-go community than he did in the punker community so it just really was like we didn't really need to stay there and and when we had brought scott into the band scott kind of was like It's like, hey, dude, you're a great drummer.

Do you want to join the band? Yes. We're moving to California. Are you OK? Yes. OK. And 10 days later, Scott was like on a plane and came out like that's how it was. We didn't really need to. We really didn't need to to stay there. So this wasn't really a ton of upside. It wasn't really a ton of upside. Brian, if you look at interviews with Brian and him and the way he talks about it, it's like Brian wants to be in a national act.

He doesn't want to be in an act that's based in DC that plays to the same 16 people and then breaks up. That wasn't what he wanted to do at all. And look at his interviews. He says that loud and clear. He wants to play guitar and he wants to try to get better at guitar and play, you know, yeah. Okay. Tonight we're playing at, you know, the teeny place. Maybe if we work really hard, we could play at a place that's a 200 seater and maybe get a 300 seater or whatever.

He wanted it to progress and it just didn't look like it was going to progress staying there. And, and all his, those interviews just speak for themselves.

At first, dot, dot, dot, I'm going to come back to that. It didn't bear very well at first with the fans, even though the record sold really well. It sold really, really well. In fact, in Europe, that record was one of those ones that was like, you know when you go into the youth hostels and stuff and the coffee shops and all like that? That was the record. They didn't have We Got It Dankos, and they didn't have Can I Say It? They had the Greenfield Day record.

So a lot of the European people in Germany and such, that was their gateway in. And they love that record. So that record had its own legs and kind of continued. There are a lot of people that that's their favorite record. How it ended up breaking up. By the time you're talking about September, October, October of 88, Brian is definitely moving on and he's going to join Junkyard. Scott is wondering what to do. Peter's back in DC.

And I kind of am the guy that has to call Peter and Scott and say, look, I think Brian's out of here. Let's just call it a day. And everybody shook hands and it came to a close. The smarter thing... would have been for everybody to take a break and then come back to it. But, you know, Dag Nasty, you know, that was like Brian didn't really have any interest of kind of, I don't know, pursuing it anymore or he wanted to put it on a hiatus. And that's how that

And at the beginning, we were trying to figure out with Brian, if Brian could do it or would do it. And Peter and I and Brian kind of had jumped on a couple of phone calls. And then as it turned out, Brian was getting ready to go into a bad religion cycle, which would take him out of the mix for almost two years. And so he was like, guys, I got to tap. So he bails. Or I didn't even, bailing isn't even the right word because it was a nothing. He's just like, it's not a good idea.

So I had given it a little bit of time and I was like, well, that kind of blows. And then I was like, hey, Peter, I reached out to Peter. Hey, Peter, what's your thoughts on us charging ahead minus Brian? And he's, and Peter's like, well, how would that work? And I was like, well, we could do A, B, and C. And that started the conversation. And Peter's kind of like quick response was yes. And I want to do new material. And I was like, okay, well, cool. We can do that too.

And so Peter, you know, a week or two go by and I reach out to Peter again. I go, dude, are you sure you want to do this? And he's like, 3,000% a couple of weeks go by. I go back to him again. Peter, are you sure you want to do this? I'm like, the moment I turn the screws on this, I can't turn it off. It's just going to, we're going to keep going until the wheels fly off. And he's like, I'm in. And so we, Peter and I just kind of mapped out what we were going to do about a year's worth of shows.

And then after about nine months to a year, we were going to get into writing. And we started doing shows in 2019 and man, by the late 2019, early 2020, we started writing and we started releasing music as field day. And that's how that's, that's kind of how that's going. You know, that's how it's going.

Then we went in the studio, we did Opposite Land, which is a five song EP. So I'm kind of correcting you a little bit. It was an EP, five songs, same thing, me producing, Cameron Webb mixing.

And then we went back into the studio and did another recording called Why that was coming out February 4th in like, two weeks or whenever this podcast is going live or whatever so pretty quick here 2022 um and that's the same thing four songs uh me producing um unity worldwide and cameron webb mixing so that's kind of where we are and as far as the multi-color thing um when we first started putting out the 2.0 record had you told me doug vinyl's super popular i was like it is like really like

vinyl and and i did not know how passionate punk people i'm sure other markets to other styles of music too but how passionate the punk and hardcore people are about their vinyl now All credit to Cortex and Unity Worldwide. They knew exactly what to do. They're like, Doug, what you do is different variations and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I kind of had to get the crash course on that.

But all of the color variants and a lot of that stuff is, one, it's because the fans are keeping it alive. And two, because that's how Sven does it on his label. His label does multiple variants.

Maybe it might surprise you, but I'm not really a guy that likes to wait around or ask people. I just kind of do it. I grab the bull by the horns and start riding it. You know, let's go. And field day is like that. One of the things that's great is that the guys trust me. So they don't really... If I say, hey guys, let's go to Dallas. They're like, okay. They don't necessarily, we don't want to go to Dallas. What time? I can't do it on that day. My dog ate my homework.

So everybody in the band is very thumbs up and yes. So that makes my life so easy. They're great to work with. The way we do the writing and all that stuff, the way technology is and all that, that's great. It's fantastic. And And now, um, I guess you could say the response for the records just speaks volumes on what we're doing. People, you know, we're giving, you know, people really like what we do.

And for example, um, this week we are again, the number one record sold in germany through cortex and so if you and that might not mean a lot to people that don't follow that stuff but in the vinyl world which is very nichey and strange fudge thank you to the fans that like the records and love our recordings thank you for buying stuff we appreciate it and we're happy to do it we like it and it's mind-boggling that we We outsell a lot of bands. You know, we outsell a lot of bands.

And so how does it feel? It feels great. And at the same time, we don't take it for granted. We don't figure like, you know how sometimes, sorry to ramble, but you know how sometimes just because it's X member of and da-da-da-da-da-da-da, people might think it's going to do well? That doesn't always work. You got to go out there and earn your stripes.

We play for keeps in those worlds. And I think that people feel that like when they see field day play, like punk rock bowling would be a great example where they're like, all right, let's see what this band does. And we just lean on, so hard into a set where you go, either those guys are going to die up there playing, or they're going to have as much fun as humanly possible. Let's go. And that's the show we do. And that's what we do. And people get up front and they sing and, and all that.

And so I think that our, just that park rock bowling would be a great example of like, we, uh, my, uh, be guys that are just like having a great time. And we're also like, it's good. It, the band is really good. And, and, and, um, we, we don't just because I might've played on this record or written that song or whatever, I still have to go out there and do a full show, kill it, work, work, work, convince people, shake hands, be the best I can be. And I'm committed to that.

And the band's committed to that. And that's how we roll, man. Like that's how we do it. We don't, we just, it's, it's like, I'm a, you know, it's just not, I'm not going to say it's not funny. It's a ton of fun. But when we, when we get up on stage, it's like, we are playing for keeps like we're playing for keeps, right? There's no, there's no, there's no fooling around. We're going to look at the live shows, look at the live shows.

And you go, Oh man, like those guys are going to, they're going to go as hard as we can as go as hard as we can until, until they send us out of the building.

And I learned in my bedroom, I learned the solo for safe. And then I thought, I know how to play. I know how to play the stag nasty song. And then I'd see faded a great play and Shay would play that solo. And I'd be like, Oh no, this guy knows how to play this stag nasty song.

His playing and how we have allowed him to kind of... We allow him a lot of room to take things in different directions because we want him to put Shea's stamp on things. So we know how the records go. Peter and I know how the records go. And there are times where... Peter will look at me and I'll look at him and Shea has starting to play some kind of post-punk radiohead texture against a drone note and you're like, Oh shit, he's on his own thread. He's just doing his own thing.

And so it's bad-ass because he makes us look good and he, he owns it. Like he takes it to another level and we want him to. So shout out to Shay for fricking being a shredder and to Ernie ball for the strings. Thank you, Ernie ball. I'm going to throw that in there. but that guy's a, he's a monster and the sweetest, most humble dude in the world. And he can literally like, that guy can play anything you got, anything you got, he can do it. Like, yep, I got you. Whatever.

Like he's got it on lock. That guy's, he's, he's an incredible asset. And just like, he's, he's, badass it's just badass and what's wonderful is each recording he's doing his he kind of is speak his voice is getting louder like how he like yeah here's how i would do it doug and we give him a lot of room to to do his own thing same with kevin like kevin's a beast of a drummer um And we give him a lot of room to kind of do his own interpretations of things.

And Kevin will, I mean, when that guy plays, you're talking about like literally a pool of sweat around him. Like he plays for keeps same thing in the studio. He plays for keeps. So, The band's gnar, the band's gnar, man. Whoa. I just, I just, I just, I can't be more proud of it because it's like, holy shit. We're in a band with dragon slayers. Like it's like that. It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's heavy.

And I was thinking, what could go up against the adolescence that would really be a contender in this, you know, early Southern California lane. And the only thing that I think might would probably give it a run for its money, or at least go up, get very close as, as the germs album. I think adolescence is right up there with the very best LPs of, of this era and this, and this, you know, region. So I'm going to go out of lessons, blue album, love both these records though.

They're both essential. Yeah.

But one of the things that's amazing to me about the Adolescence record is it has the ability... to be very dark and bright at the same time two i don't believe up to that point i had ever heard anybody doing octave solos three and this is so i don't know if i can go i love the bad religion record and i'm going to get to that in a second um One of the things that's amazing about the adolescence record is when you take the song Amoeba and you realize that the vocal note stays the same, but the

band note and progression moves around that, that's next level, man. That was next level stuff. Incredible. Over to the Bad Religion record. The Bad Religion record, I would say its darkness and its lo-fi is what makes it so charming and scary. Like that was a scary record to me.

Like they were, you know, you're talking about, as I scratch my head, you're like, they're talking about like, you know, dying and oligarchy and the government, you know, taking over, like the way the government is kind of like running you, that's some next level stuff, but more on like a crass tip, you know, like way over on the like anti, maybe even, maybe even, I don't know if it's anti-humanity as much as it's like, holy shit, we're on this train and it's moving forward and it's not going in

the right direction, but It's also like highbrow, like intellectual punk rock. For how dark that record is, it makes up for it in its intellect.

And I know later on we're going to talk about that other record, which I'm not going to spoil. We'll talk about it later. I'm going to go with the Adolescence record because that record's really, that's really something. That's a something. The songwriting's phenomenal. The production's on point. The playing is great. And like, damn, there are times where they're doing that record and it's like, this is some dark gothic shit. And then they kick into fast parts. You go, not too shabby.

So pretty cool. I think that their wings might be a little bit wider than the... And I'm only going to go with the original version of How Could Hell Be Any Worse, where that's what, 14 songs, 16 songs, where I think they're... they're a little bit, it's a little bit narrower of a bandwidth where the adolescence one is a little bit slightly wider bandwidth. So love them both if I had to choose adolescence.

And he gives us the cheat code on who does what solos on this record. And he says... The octave-y shit is mostly Rick, and the more kind of diddly-diddly type of stuff is his brother Frank, which is fun to know, because I always wondered myself. And then the other thing is, I've always wondered this, and maybe you can finally crack the code for us today, Doug. Dag Nasty, lots of octaves. Adolescence, Blue Album, lots of octaves.

Is that a coincidence, or was Dag Nasty influenced by the adolescents?

But the high moments for me on this Bad Religion LP, I love the song Part 3. I just love that it's just verses and solos. The song structure is so wild and rad. And it's like Bad Religion doing this mid-tempo banger that they kind of like... They don't really go there again. I guess they do it a little bit in Best For You, but it's like, here they are killing it. And they kind of, in the future, just go either fast or they do the slow songs.

And this is a thing I wish they expanded on a little bit. I love that song. I love In The Night. But yeah, overall... I can't All right, we're going to do a UFO segment on the Circle Jerks Group Sex LP. Came out in 1980, Frontier Records. So the day before they go to record the vocals on this LP, Keith Morris is abducted by a UFO. You can sub in any singer from any era to replace him. And Doug, where are you going?

So I think that it would be a good match because it doesn't really require a low growly kind of voice, a more nasally kind of like cut notes. Like cello doesn't really... sometimes he holds, sustains really long notes, but on that, on this particular record, it really wouldn't be required. He could do rapid fire vocals like police truck, that same diction, same thing. And I think it would be fricking the bomb to hear, to hear the record, to hear group sex like that.

We're going to be going to the East Coast. Xander can't do it. He's down doing some Alex Cox thing or something. I don't know, Doug. Maybe you can get with Greg. And if you get with Greg, maybe we can go. So he's leaving this message on my machine. And so I call Hetson. Sorry, long story long. And Hetson's like, yeah, Doug, you can do it. I'm like, well, when is it? And he's like, in three days. And I had to learn 33 Circle Jerk songs in three days. That's the story.

go on a lot, like the top half of the record. And then when you get to world, when you get to roll up my ass and you go, who can play a ride symbol faster than that? And I was in like that thing. I'm in dude. So that record is amazing. Just amazing. All 15 minutes of it. And man, drummers are, check out how many different drum grooves those guys are doing in punk songs. Like, you know, they might do, even, even I'm going to give some love to Hetson too.

Like even Hetson doing like, rather than it being four bar, a four bar phrase, you know, like they're doing these weird notes and letting the drums fill in the other parts. Very, very, very clever for a punk band at that time. Absolutely incredible.

kids, black flag reunion album, Ron. So just imagine the guy that you see in the client of Western civilization yelling, and I said, I tell probably guilty in the first two seconds of this record, you're breaking everything in your house, unless you're a poser. Yeah.

Keith Morris on this group on that band. group sex record, he fricking rips the vocals. And one of the things that I love about his thing is he's able to take different levels of dynamic inside. There's this kind of like medium scream, bigger scream. And then there's the full blown, you know, blaster, um, but it holds tone, which is great. It's not like he doesn't come off like, you know, maybe let's say like a negative approach vocal where it's a little bit guttural and a little bit deeper.

He still keeps that kind of like, yeah, yeah, high tone on it. Fucking phenomenal. So I, you know, great, great, great performances by, inside that and that slight nuance of being able to take a vocal and he's like not he's kind of like um if let's say the vocal were on a scale of one to ten he's kind of like five up to a six point five back to a five nine nine nine back to a five nine nine nine ten you know it's like really really great his vocals are great on that record just incredible

And then he would come back and kill it on red tape. So like, I don't know. Just listening to Beverly Hills today, I was like, good God, like sliding Ian's voice in here would be out of this world and totally different, but maybe not that different. Because Doug, with you talking about like the intonation of Keith's voice, they both do that so well. Like the lows, the highs, and like also like the holding back to the shouts. And Ian has undeniably one of the greatest shout voices of all time.

I mean, I interviewed him for an article I wrote at the beginning of last year, or I co-wrote, and he talked about seeing the Circle Jerks play in San Francisco when he was on tour with Teen Idols in 1980 and how life-changing seeing them play and seeing people just... murder each other and how, how, how, how much of an impact that had on him and Henry, who is the roadie and, and Mark Sullivan, who was the roadie and the other teen idols and, and them taking that back to DC and being like, all

right, this shit is, this shit is real. This is how it's done. California fucking rules. We're taking California with us to DC. We're going to fucking tie, you know, uh, Bandanas around our engineer boots and just fucking destroy everyone and play way faster because the circle jerks did it and they rule. So that's pretty rad.

Like I got to see that like, wow. Mind-blowing.

So those were the punk shows where you go, I can't believe I survived that. But yes, like, reminds me of going to see dead kennedys um in wilmington probably 1980 84 cops riot squad kicks in shoots tear gas at the band in the venue full venue like that

If you're in Omaha, Nebraska or Kansas, just a little bit before Mother's Day, we're coming to see you. So you should come see the band. Bring your mom. It might be kind of cool. And then the last thing is stay positive, get vaccinated, Be safe. I want to see everybody at a show. COVID sucks, but we will survive. So sending out some posi vibes out there, some PMA. We will get through this. Treat each other well. Don't go crazy. Get vaccinated if you can and do your part.