What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, we are going back to the roots of this podcast. It is all Nardcore this episode, and it's super ill. I got Fester from the Rotters. We are talking that early, early, old school 805 punk stuff. And yeah, the Rotters is a super interesting band. They're from the 805 in the 1970s. They predate most of the Nardcore stuff that people are familiar with. So they're going to talk about the old days and it is super interesting.
Then I'm going to hit you all with an hardcore starter kit. If you are not familiar with what it is, I'm going to try to break it down for you and you can fillet me if I get anything wrong. Then I'm bringing on Vince from Dead Heat and JP from FTK Records. They're going to let us know what's happening with them, including impressions of that first Dead Heat show back from that July 3rd weekend. as well as what else is going on. So cool episode. I think you guys are going to like it.
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185 miles south, a hardcore punk rock podcast. There's no hope! Vocal test karaoke.
Andrew Verity from Vendetta and Retaliate.
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What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, I have Fester Swollen of the Rotters. What's up, Fester? I'm still alive. That's important. How are you? I'm doing good. Thank you so much. Some would think so. Yeah, that's right. I've been trying to get you for a long time, and I'm glad you're here. So let's jump right in. I'm elusive. That's true. When do the Rotters start, and where exactly are you guys from?
Okay, started 1977, basically in the 805 area. I'm from Camarillo. We got, you know, original member from Oxnard, two guys from Ventura. And yeah, we didn't play a show until 78. We were too shitty. Can I say shitty? Of course. Okay, well, you know, I don't know. Does the FCC monitor you or anything? Is this like Facebook? I got reprimanded for saying something inappropriate on Facebook.
You can let it all out. I think you got that out of the way on your 1978 single. So no one will be offended anymore.
You know what really pissed me off about Facebook is I have yet to be I haven't yet to get into Facebook jail, and I've tried. Well, there you go. I would be able to find a way in, but no, somehow I'm outsmarting him.
So you start in 77. What are your influences? Because this is like within a year of the birth of punk.
Oh, the influences. Well, You know, those of us who are old enough to have been worried about being drafted into Vietnam, you know, we were all, at least me, we were all really highly influenced by everything that was going on in the 60s. You know, those Woodstock bands, because they didn't give a shit about anything but playing music. And they were doing something totally new and different, and it meant something to them. And for the most part, they didn't know what they were doing.
You know, there was a lot of noise and sloppiness. And, you know, that era was great for rock. And then, you know, they started making money. And then bands started to listen to how to make money. And it started getting mellower and mellower and mellower. And, you know, you didn't, you know, you didn't have 10 years after anymore. You had bands like Steely Dan, you know, it just, it just sucked.
So, The early 70s, we were seeing everything that we really loved, you know, get watered down and replaced with just incredibly boring music. You know, now that I'm older, I can look at it and say, well, yeah, Steely Dan was good. But, you know, those kind of bands, they were almost too good or just... They didn't have that rock and roll angst that rock and roll is supposed to have. I mean, it's not classical music, right?
You know, it's about smashing things up and making a lot of noise, inventing, you know, emotions and passions and anger. And, you know, so it got pretty watered down and, uh, Yeah, you know, that
changed. Had you heard the Ramones? Had you heard the Damned or anyone before the writer's start? Yeah,
actually. What really happened for me and Nigel, specifically, Nigel Nitro, the singer, is we met in junior college, at Moorpark Junior College, because we were in the film department. And one of those infotainment news shows, 2020, which I think is still on. Anyway, they had a segment one night about this horrible, horrible scourge on society that was happening in England. It was called punk rock. And all these people wanted to do was destroy everything. Weird clothes and weird hair.
And they didn't dance. They pogoed. They jumped up and down and bashed into each other. And it was just terrible. And they showed videos of the Sex Pistols and the Damned playing, playing live, you know, and they had to, oh, we have to put subtitles in here. So everybody knows just how horrible these bands are. And I watched that, and I thought, oh, this is fucking great. This is better than Reefer Madden is what they're showing. But if these guys hate it so much, it's got to be good.
It's got to be. That's for me. And then I went to school the next day and talked to Nigel, whose real name is Mike. But I talked to him, and he's like, hey, did you see that thing last night? Yeah, we got to start a punk band. Yeah, we do. Do you know how to play? Well, kind of. What can you do, Mike? We'll figure something out, you know. So it was like that. And it was really a breath of fresh air. You know, when the Sex Pistols album came out, of course, we ran out and bought it immediately.
And we bought the damned album. first album immediately and the buzzcocks first album immediately and what was the other one it was a compilation of live recordings live at the roxy in london or something it was really horrible sounding but it had the buzzcocks slaughtering the dogs wire yeah we bought wire right away you know there was like this period where you could get five punk albums not counting the Ramones. It took us a while to actually discover them. And that's another
story. So you jump in, you're practicing for a year. Do you play your first show or do you put out a record first? Oh, no, we played a bunch first. Okay, so where are you playing at and what are the shows like? Because this is so early. No one's been able to describe it yet for the 805.
Well, The first show we ever played was in Isla Vista, which is just next to UCSB in Santa Barbara. And they've got that outdoor amphitheater in Anisco Park that we all affectionately called Yoko Ono Park. But yeah, our first show was out there in the middle of summer. Nobody was in school. So we played in front of like 20 people. And they were bored, so they liked us. We were absolutely horrible.
We had already replaced the drummer and the bass player, but that's what took us a while to get there. That was our first show. It was kind of fun, but it wasn't anything special. Then came... We managed to... to weasel our way into a place called the Mickey Moose Club on Old Town Main Street in Ventura. And our bass player Rip Cord went in there and told them, yeah, we generate so much energy. And so we got to play a set between the, you know, classic rock, you know, experienced band.
And we got to set up on the floor, not the stage. It was kind of like an audition. And I think we lasted about 15 minutes before they pulled the plug and said, you guys got to get out of here now. What came next? But the next one, and this one was really, it took a little while before we did this. We played at Benisco Park and IV again two weeks after UCSB started. That was in September.
Anyone who's gone to college knows that you move there, and for the first two weeks, you're kind of settling in and figuring out what you need to do. And by about the fourth week or sixth week, there's things like papers, midterms and stuff due. But that second week after you move in, you have time to party. So we had... We had Benisco Park two weeks into the term.
Nigel and some of our other friends, including Daryl Echt, aka Stink, who went on to play bass for us for many years, they went up there and they spray painted the rotters all over the campus and all over IFB, which really pissed off everybody. Who are these guys? Nobody had heard of us. And it was uncool, I guess. But then came out the notice in the ad in the UCSB paper that we were playing in this park on a Saturday night. And it was jammed. It was absolutely packed with people.
And It was glorious. They don't have punk shows like that anymore because people were throwing shit and screaming and yelling. Every single one of us got hit by something like a beer bottle or tomatoes or whatever. We were just pelted. When it was all over, they had to hose the stage down. Nigel and our bass player Ripcord and a friend of ours got in a fight with somebody who was right at the front of the stage heckling us and trying to start a fight.
So they jumped off the stage and jumped this guy. A Christian group came by and pulled the power and started singing We Shall Overcome. It was fun. I miss those
days. Do you have any contemporaries? Or are you the only and first punk band in
the 805? There were a few that kind of followed us, were right on our heels, but they're gone now. There was MIA, and I know there have been a bunch of MIAs. MIA had... A friend of ours, Johnny Bruton. Johnny plays drums for the Woofy Dogz EP, if you've ever heard of that, which is kind of the Rotter's offshoot, you know. Right, I was going to get to that. With a couple of Rotter's songs on it. And Ripcord and Nigel are on that. Who else was in M.I.A.? Oh, yeah. P.J. Galligan. P.J.
Galligan, who was the lead guitar for the Angry Samoans in the early days when they recorded Back from Samoa. Yeah, P.J. was in MIA. How about the band The Strap on Dicks? What are they all about? They came later and they were up in
Santa Barbara. But they were still pre-1980 though, or no?
They were right on that Right on the edge of 80. Okay. Oh, what am I thinking? Contemporaries. I'm thinking Osnard and Ventura. Yes, there was one band that was definitely started at the same time we did, and that was Public Anima. They started up by San Luis Obispo and Santa Maria. And they're really good friends of mine. We played a lot of shows with them. They were phenomenal. Phenomenal. They were still my all-time favorite punk band. I don't know how I didn't even think of these guys.
Did they ever do a record? No. Okay. No. And, you know, they just... I think there might... There's a... a video of them playing an early show at Hancock college in Santa Maria. But it's like, you know, we're playing in front of some music students and there's like, you know, it's not like really a con it's weird, you know? Right. So, but that's, that's about all you can see of them. But man, those guys, if first off, they were either absolutely brilliant. And scary.
Because all four of them were characters. It was a band that had... We didn't. We had two. But Public Edema had four. And they were really, really noisy. Like the guitar player had a vintage big muff that was always turned all the way up. But, yeah, they were either, and they had great songs, but they were either really, really good or they crashed and burned. And they crashed and burned spectacularly.
Just, you know, guitar down and smash it and run out the room and out into the night and disappear, kind of crash and burn. So either they were really good and the show was awesome or they were really, really fucking bad. And freaked out. And I swear those shows were more fun. You know, I think their favorite show that I ever saw lasted. Song.
Sure. So you have really no one showing you the way. So how are you able to figure out like we should do a record? And I believe you guys put it out yourselves, right? Because it's on Rotten Records. Yeah, we did. So how do you go about that?
Well, that was because Nigel and I were going to Moorpark Junior College, and they had a really good music program. So they had a recording class, and they were advertising, we need bands to record because nobody wants to record. So, of course, we volunteered. And all that Moorpark College stuff, that ended up on the single, sit on my face deal. And the album, all that was recorded in over three or four sessions at Moorpark Junior College.
But the guy teaching the class, his name was Richard Simpson. And what he really did for a living was master. recordings onto vinyl. One day, you know, you guys aren't any good, but you have fun. That's all that really matters. You know, if you want to put out a seven inch single, you know, you can put out 500 of them and it's not going to cost you that much. You guys can scrape it up and I'll master it for free. And we went, okay. And, you know, that's how we did it, basically.
As far as choosing the songs, Stevie Nicks was, you know, people were telling us at our shows, God, that's great. No accounting for taste, right? But it was hitting the spot. And so that's why we chose that.
Yeah. When you're recording it at Moorpark College, like, Is your engineer looking at you funny for having a song called Sit On My Face, Stevie Nicks?
The students hated us. They hated us. The instructor, Richard Simpson, thought we were great. You know, he thought it was funny. Do you know if Stevie Nicks ever heard the song? Yeah, she did. I'm pretty sure she did. I know that Nick Fleetwood heard it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure she heard it. Once the song started breaking and we were getting airplay, Fleetwood Mac started to stomp on us for real.
And the first thing that they did was, Mick Fleetwood himself was calling up record stores like Tower Records on Sunset, if you remember that. That was a great place, you know, and there was some place in Pasadena and there was a store, a record store across from Tower Records, a few others. But he was calling them up and saying, if you sell this, you won't get any more Fleetwood Mac albums.
And I thought it was kind of funny because the Fleetwood Mac album at the time was Tusk, which pretty much sucked. So who would want it anyway?
But
our records kind of caved and, you know, hit our stuff. Most of the other places just went, oh, fuck you. You're not the record company. They don't have it. You don't have any say on this.
Where are you getting your play? Who's who's playing the rotters on the radio?
Arrow cue. Okay. Yeah, we this is how we got it. Heard is that we. We went and saw the Dickies and the Go-Go's. It was the Go-Go's first show at the Whiskey. And Nigel had a cassette tape, and he walked up to Rodney Bingenheimer and gave it to him. But then once we had a test pressing, we drove down to Pasadena, and we called Rodney on the rock. And at the time, 78, 79, this was late 78. Rodney and the Rock was creating the scene, you know.
So we called him up, had to let the phone ring for like half an hour before they bothered to answer. And old Rodney, yeah, we're in town. We've got our new record. Of course, he said, oh, cool. Bring it in. So we drove over to Karakiu and there was no fucking way in hell they were going to let us in that place. There was just no way we could get in. But we were trying to figure out a way. And Nigel was really good at this kind of stuff.
He went sneaking around the back and he found a group of guys standing by the back door and thought, they're supposed to be here. I'm going to just stand with them. And when they opened the door, I'll walk in. This is exactly what happened. So he walked in. He came leaning out the front window and said, come on, guys, come around back. I'll open it for you. So basically, we snuck in.
The funny thing is that the people that were standing around in the back waiting to get in who were supposed to be there instead of us were the Ramones and Flynn Burke, drummer from Blondie. So we got in there with those guys and, you know, everybody was pretty cool. Didi Ramon walked up to us and said, hi, I'm Didi Ramon. You got any drugs? You know, some of us are like digging through pockets. Like, well, I think we got some pie here.
Um, but, um, You know, we gave Rodney the single, and he played it, and he put us on air with the Ramones. Played our record. We were live on the air talking to the Ramones, and I don't know. I guess we kind of fucked up bad, but Rodney asked us, you know, he asked us if we had any questions for the Ramones, and Nigel asked Joey if he was into eel flagellation. And Troy's like, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. And it's like, yeah, neither do I. And then Rodney goes, okay, cool.
So you guys, are you guys into the Ramones? I mean, that's where we fucked up. Both Nigel and I at the same time kind of went, well, yeah, but we like the Sex Pistols. And then they went, All right. Okay. We got a break for a commercial. Click. They looked at us and said, you guys got to get out of here right now. We got thrown out. Yeah. Not playing the game. Yeah. But, you know, we like the Sex Pistols.
I always, you know, I like the Ramones, but to me, they sounded like a noisy version of the Beach Boys. And I just wasn't into it. Yeah. So we got kicked out. But, you know, Kara Q was bombarded with requests for that song. So much so that they put us in rotation. And we actually went back and got interviewed on another DJ show during the middle of the day. But, you know, yeah, we were in full on rotation. That doesn't happen to everybody.
So does that start giving you traction and do you start playing more shows and are you building up your own crowd? Not really.
Okay. No, we were really good at fucking everything up. Really good at it. We didn't really have any management or anybody in the band who was experienced with anything. And we were up here basically in Oxnard. We weren't really part of the L.A. scene. So it started to help a little bit. Rodney got us into the mask, the new other mask, the big warehouse, not the underground fire death trap. But he got us on two shows in a row, two Saturdays in a row at the mask.
And, you know, the reception was kind of mixed. mostly it was pretty good, but you know, we had to, we had to compete against the plugs, the dead communities, the germs. Oh, I forget who else. Anyway, we had, we had, we had to play against, uh, bands that were either really good or really popular. And, um, A lot of the L.A. people at that time were kind of resentful to us. I mean, not all of them. You know, in what way? In
what
way? Well, you know, we first off, our song was considered a novelty tune. And we were they didn't consider us real punks. You know, I mean, we are the first time we played at the mask. We did a couple of covers. And that was an unwritten taboo at the time. Oh, God, you don't do cover. Whatever you do, don't play covers.
What did you cover? I
think we did Sonic Reducer. I don't know what else. Well, we definitely did Sonic Reducer. And if we play again, we'll do Sonic Reducer. It's a great
song.
But yeah, we got a lot of flack from that. Brendan Mullen told us, you know, you guys played too long. Don't do covers. But he let us back. Brendan was cool. He was a nice guy. But a lot of those math bands at the time, you know, they all went to the same high school. And they had this snobbish little clique.
A lot of the bands were not part of it, you know, so I don't want to, I'm not going to name any bands because most of them I think were really good, really cool, but there were just some and it didn't help us much. So we were able to get shows at like Club 88, the Rock Corporation, the Biker Bar in the San Fernando Valley. Dreaded Rock Corporation. Not Madam Wong's. Oh, Hong Kong Cafe. We played there.
But there's still nothing going on in the 805. Like there's no clubs there to play. No.
No. There were some in Santa Barbara. You know, we were able to play up there a little bit. We did a lot of shows with Fear and the Angry Samoans back when those guys were struggling too. But no, there wasn't really anything at the time in the 805.
Okay, so you do the second single, the Sink the Whales single. And does that prove to people that you're more than just a gimmick song? Because that's a great track. And the flip side is good as well. I think that's a better record, your second 7-inch. It
is a better record. I'm surprised you like the flip side.
Yeah, I like both songs. So does that get you any more traction? No. No, no, no.
And here's where the internal problems of the rotters step up. You asked earlier about Fleetwood Mac and Nick Fleetwood. Well, one of the things that happened to us getting traction was that Yes, we could play Club 88, but we couldn't play the whiskey because Nick Fleetwood was friends with the owners. And they were literally going around. Nick Fleetwood, his people were going around to the clubs and saying, don't book this band. And we know this.
Because Rodney Bingenheimer tried to set up a show with us and the Dead Boys and some other band that was, you know, one tier lower than we were. I can say that it's insulting, but I don't mean it that way. And, you know, the whiskey was Dead Boys, great. This other band, great. Rotters, no way. Absolutely no way can they play here. And that was the way it was with all of the bigger clubs. You know, the Starwood, no way. You know, Guzzari's a cool place, but no way. Uh-uh.
Rotters can't play here. But, yeah, and there was nothing in Ventura, the Ventura area. There was a couple cool places in Santa Barbara. There was a really tiny dive. Main Street, Old Town Main Street, back before they made it gentrified in the dangerous, scary area called George's. And it was about 10 feet wide. We played there a lot. That was great. There was a place called Pat's Grass Shack in Goleta that was like a tiki bar. And I think we got in there a couple.
Do you remember any other notable shows of that era? This was a really good one. Ventura County Radio Station. I forget what it's called. K-J-E-E? No. But K-S-U-K, I think. But anyway, they had a guy that was putting on a Battle of the Bands. Those are popular. And it was... This was right about the time that... This was before Sink the Whales came out. Right after we had Stevie Nicks come out. And so it was 79. It was Labor Day? September?
They put on this big Battle of the Bands show at the National Guard Armory up here in Ventura, which is... You know, it's a pretty decent-sized, big, empty room. You know, it's a hall. And there were 12 bands, three stages. One band would be playing. One band would be tearing down. One band would be setting up. And the place was packed, sold out. But this was 79. The promoter came. We had a meeting. The promoter said, Everybody plays songs people know. And Nigel and I just burst out laughing.
We don't know how to do that. Are you kidding? We're not playing songs people know. Screw you. So when the day came, we were sandwiched between Full Sail and Cirith Ungol. And Full Sail won. Sereth Uncle got second. Full Sail did an absolutely record-perfect version of Hotel California or something. Just pick it. They were like one of those bar bands that could do everything perfect. Sereth Uncle, on the other hand, is kind of a local legend.
for starting their own version of metal, you know, heavy metal. And they're really cool guys. And they're still around. They're actually huge in Germany. And they go tour there. So we're sandwiched between these really well-known bands that are good. And we can barely play our shit, you know. We go out there. The hall is full of people. And in 79, everybody's sitting down on the floor, grooving to the tunes. If you can think back to an earlier time, that's what people did.
And I don't remember what song we started with, but it doesn't matter. First song, Nigel threw a whole stack of you know, defective warped Stevie Nicks singles out into the audience and pulled his pants down and mooned them. Immediately, they got really pissed, really pissed off. From then on, it was like a war. People were just screaming and yelling. And this was not like the war at the East Goyo Park. This was much worse without the fight. But they were more conservative Ventura.
So we're looking out at a sea of middle fingers, people screaming, fuck you and holding up their middle fingers and just yelling and throwing everything they could get their hands on to throw. And we kept playing. And at one point, I look up and there's a beer bottle. about three feet away from my head flying through the air. And it hits me on my right cheek. You know that bone right under the eye where the eye socket is? It hits me right there and shatters. So does my skin.
I was really lucky it didn't get me in the eye. Nothing got me in the eye, but... So... I've got this big cut, and it's just splurting blood out everywhere. I can see it going out in spurts. I also had a white shirt on, too, which was pretty cool. That got soaking, and the whole audience kind of went, oh, shit. It got real quiet. We got really pissed off. I was hopping mad. So our playing got more intense. And I remember at one point, I'm like making eye contact with everybody.
And I see this guy in the middle, and he's like shaking his head back and forth, mouthing, not me, not me. And I'm like pointing at him. That's the guy. It wasn't. But yeah, that show ended. you know, intense. It was really intense. And the promoter was freaking out. Oh my God, are you guys going to sue me? And Nigel's like, well, what do you think? Of course we were not, we don't have to, but we scared the hell out of it.
Well, the thing about that show, as I understand it, is that most of those guys in those first four Nardcore bands, like Tony, the guys in Ill Repute, the guys that formed Aggression, Bob Clark, Dr. No, Stalag. A lot of those guys were all to high school at the same time, were in that audience. You're going to have to ask them if they were there and saw it, but I'm pretty sure most of them were. And that's the time they went, oh, this is cool.
And they went out and formed those bands after seeing us. So I'd like that to be remembered. I'd like that to be verified, too, because I could be totally wrong. Bullshit. But. But. Ask Tony about that.
I will. I will.
Yeah.
In 80 to 83. Are the rotters still going when finally 805 bands start popping up? No. Okay, so you go on hiatus. There's nothing. The Wuffy Dog 7-inch comes out in 83, and you do those tracks on an hardcore comp that comes out in 84, but you guys are just inactive? Yeah,
totally. And here's what happened is that we had the internal battle. you know, like fans tend to have between, you know, there was Nigel and me wanting to play as much as possible and, you know, be as punk as possible. And then we had Ripcord and Johnny Condom who want to, not only did they want to diversify and they want to play songs like you know, like the police or something. It's like they didn't want to, they wanted to wimp out. But the worst thing about it is that they were arrogant.
And, you know, I'm sorry to badmouth my guys, but there's an awful lot of bitterness. So I'm going to, I'm going to. They also would not rehearse. So we had this cycle, this ugly cycle, where we would practice and practice and practice and practice. And we'd get good rehearsal. Then Nigel would manage to get us about three shows, bookings in a row. And the first one, stage fright would kick in and we'd fuck it up. I had terrible stage fright. It's just as much my fault as anybody's.
I mean, cramping so I couldn't move my fingers, that kind of stuff. By the third show, all of that would go away. We would be good. We'd have our shit together. We'd play really well. As soon as we had a good show, Rip and Johnny would become... overly full of themselves and decide, we're great. We don't need to rehearse. We're going to go surfing. We couldn't get them to rehearse. Then when we had another show coming up, we'd be telling them, we've got to start practicing.
They're like, no, no, don't worry about it. We'll blow them away. Every time Rip said, we're going to blow them away, it was the kiss of death. It meant that We were going to fuck this show up royally. Sink the Whales came out, you know, ribbed. I think most of the band, I didn't think this way, but I think everybody else was like expecting the same kind of big reaction for Sink the Whales as we got for Stevie Nicks.
Even though it was better, It wasn't controversial, you know, it wasn't in the same way. So, you know, it did okay, but it didn't do great. And that discouraged people. We did get, we were able to go play in San Francisco at the Mabuhay Gardens, you know, the Fab Mab, a number of times. Durson was harsh, but pretty cool to us. And I think this was the straw that broke the camel's back is that we went up to San Francisco. We played three shows, cycle all over again.
The third show was a Saturday night at the Mbuhe. It was K-San's heretic show anniversary party. We were second bill to the dead Kennedys. The nuns were playing. I don't know who else. And it sold out. It was packed. It was so packed. I had friends outside that showed up. It's like, can you get me in? I'm like, man, I can't even sneak you in through the back door. It's that tight. I feel really bad about that. But there wasn't anything I could do.
And that was the best show the original Rotters ever played. Everything clicked. The crowd was great. Our reception in San Francisco has always, always been way better than in L.A. And, you know, they got so wild during our last song that they... They charged the stage, ripped the shirt off of Nigel. Bouncers were running out to try and protect us. And when the Dead Kennedys were playing, people were still screaming for the Rotters. So that was pretty good.
And then afterwards, I got a message from Dirk, because I think I booked this show. Anyway, Dirksen got a hold of me and said, you know, you guys can come back any night, any billing you want. Cool. This is what we're working for, right? And we also made more money that night than any Rotter show ever. At the time, 1979, we made like $250, which... It doesn't seem like much today, but it paid for our entire trip up there for a week, paid all our expenses, and we broke even.
Well, at this point in your career, a good response and breaking even is doing really well. So Dirksen told us this. I'm like, okay, screw LA. We'll play there when we can. But what we need to do is go to San Francisco. We need to play the Mabuhay. We need to get a van, go on the road. And Ripcord and Johnny Condom absolutely refused to ever bother to go drive up to San Francisco and play again because we didn't make any money. And I think that was pretty much the end of that.
You know, there was another big show that was in Santa Barbara we were asked to play at. You know, X was coming to play in Santa Barbara, and the promoter wanted us to play Second Bill to X. And, you know, Johnny refused to do it for some actually probably pretty good reason. He was going to have his wisdom teeth pulled out, but he could have rescheduled that.
I don't
know.
anyway so that ends the original run of the rotters what's the story on the wuffy dogs i
really
don't know
much about
that
you didn't play on it i thought you
were credited on the record
i am credited on the record because um i co-wrote lou reed the song i must be lou reed gotcha I co-wrote that. And if you listen to the Woofie Dogs, there's a part where Nigel goes, and this is where the guitar solo comes in. And it goes... Well, you know, Pete, who was the guitar player for the Woofie Dogs, could not play noisy, trashy guitar solos at all like me. You know, he was a clean pop guitar player. And Nigel kept trying to get him to play a good solo like me. And it's like, well...
You can't do it, so I'll fake it. But yeah, you know, those guys, you know, they did it without, I didn't know anything about it until it came out. You know, if you get the reissue of the Woofie Dogs, if you can find one, I think there were a thousand that just came out last year. If you go look It's a little scribbling inside near the holes, near the hole. They etched in it, where's Fester? Nigel and Johnny kind of gave me some credit with that.
Yeah, Nigel and Johnny definitely stuck up for me. It was like, well, he should be here, but oh, well, whatever.
Yeah, so you guys get asked to be on the Nardcore comp. Do you get the band back together? What is going on here?
Let's see. Who was in the Nardcore comp? Well, it was definitely me. It was definitely Nigel. I think Stink. Jeff Hager played bass. And I think Bruce Brink played drums. Bruce Brink was the original Rotters drummer. He, Nigel, and I started the band. And Bruce was crazy. It's just crazy. He bailed before we ever played a show. So we never made it onto any records or anything. I think that was the lineup.
But are you guys a band, or does Tony find you guys and say, hey, you should get the Rotters back together to be on this comp?
Yeah, there were things like, please get back together and be on the comp. Please get back together and play a show.
Right. Okay, so the Rotters get brought back from the dead to do the Narcor comp songs. How do you feel about those songs?
Ugh. Okay, Wash My Hands, I think is one of Mike's best, Nigel's best songs. I think that song's classic. And, you know, I've been the only one that has stuck with the band for, what is it, 43, 44 years. But I've always made sure to keep Nigel's songs in the set list. And that's a must do. You know, Wash My Hands, Howard Hughes, have to do that song. If we play, that song is in the set list. Sink the Whales, do that one. The Woofy Dog song that he wrote, Things Dogs Do, love that song.
Always do that. So, you know, Nigel's in Japan. He's gone. He's doing really well over there. He's, you know, big DJ, you know. movie producer, band producer. But I'd love for him to be back and play with us again, but his stage fright will freak him out. When we played in Japan, he freaked out. But it doesn't matter. It's like I've always insisted on keeping Nigel's songs in the set list. So That one, I like a lot.
Yeah, do you regret the homophobic lyrics on the other song? Yes.
Yep, I don't even know how to play it. That one got tossed, you know. The homophobic thing's gone. You know, in 78, it was funny, you know. But it was funny at someone else's expense. And, man, you know. I don't know how to play it.
Yeah, right on. Let's move on and we can wrap on this. Because you do all the trying to play shows and stuff in the late 70s and there's really no scene in the Oxnard area. How does it feel like to see this comp and all these great bands from the area that are flourishing and to be a part of it on that record?
Well, to be... totally honest, mixed. You know, I mean, I would love to have been able to, I would love to be able to play, you know, a top slot at the Ventura Theater when there's one of those big shows. But on the other hand, I'm really proud of them. You know, I'm really proud of them. I really love seeing these guys do so well. Trailblazers usually don't get to play the glory. They just get the accolades and the reputation and respect. I can live with
that. Tony, did you put out a comp in 2009, I believe, that was called Nardcore 30 years later. And it would have been 25 years after the Nardcore comp, but he traced it back to the Rotters in 79, which is why he called it 30 years later instead of 25. So that's a shout out.
Oh, I get those. I definitely get those and I appreciate it. I really do. You know, some of those old people, you know, Those founding guys from those other bands, I definitely give credit. And there are people that consider me like the godfather of Nardcore. Tony's the mayor. Oh, yeah. And rightfully so. Tony is fantastic. He's a great guy. But I am kind of the godfather, I suppose.
How do you see the legacy of the Rotters and what do you want the legacy to be? And we can wrap on that, Fester. Legacy?
I don't know. That's a tough question. It would be nice to continue to have the records be collector's items. Excuse me. You know, I, I don't know. I don't know. You know, things pass. We're going to, we're going to be, we're all going to be future oil deposits for the mantis people and the roach Republic to fight wars over. Does that answer
your question? A nice cheery ending to it all. Do you, Do you feel like you've been well-represented? Do you? Do you?
Well, yeah. This was a good conversation. I wouldn't want to do more if I wasn't happy.
All right. Okay. Thanks so much. I'll talk to you soon.
Okay, Zach.
See you. Bye. All right. I wanted to do a starter kit on Nardcore. And to be specific, this is the first wave of Nardcore. And I interviewed Fester from the Rotters and the Rotters predate what I'm going to talk about. But what you'll get from that interview when I air it is the Rotters is kind of adjacent. Like they were doing their own thing. They were earlier, they were first, but it didn't really like blossom a scene. The scene comes after.
And so that's what this is about is like basically the beginnings of an art core when it gets coined, the important bands, et cetera, et cetera, or a handful of the important bands, right? And so people might be interested in this. I'm sure that a lot of people listening to this have a pretty good understanding of what it is. But if you're a kid out there that just loves dead heat and you're like, what's this Nardcore thing they're talking about? Like, what's that all about?
I'm going to try to explain it the best I can. And everyone can blow me up on the internet. Brandon Cruz, tell me I don't know shit. I love you, Brandon. Okay. So basically, Nardcore is a mashup of Oxnard and the word hardcore, a.k.a. Nardcore. The albums that I'm going to highlight here that you should get into, the first one I'm going to do is Aggression, Don't Be Mistaken. It came out on BYO Records in the year 1983.
And I should just say, the five bands I'm going to talk about are Aggression, Ill Repute, Stalag 13, Dr. No, and RKO. The Aggression LP comes out first, 1983. The same year that the ill-reputed 7-inch Land of No Toilets comes out. But this LP is banging. They play like straightforward Southern California punk rock that Ben would describe as partially being 1.5 and partially being hardcore. So they walk that line. The best of both worlds. The guitar playing is absolutely stellar.
Henry is just a wizard. And Mark Higgy's vocals are like perfect punk rock vocals. You know, it's so ill. This album rips. And yeah, they were like the first. They were a little bit older than the other bands that I'm going to talk about. So, Joe, is that how you would describe that? Yes.
By four or five years.
Yeah. Because everyone can check out the Big Bob interview I did. Aggression starts in like 79. You know? But... They do this first record. It comes out in 83. And before that, they did a couple of comp tracks on someone got their head kicked in and then follow up with this LP. And this LP is great. It is getting re-released by Trust Records, hopefully this year, maybe next year. And then it'll pop back up on all the streaming platforms. It's not up there now.
The next one I wanted to talk about was Ill Repute, What Happens Next? Now, Ill Repute does, they do demos in 82. They have the song on the Rodney on the Rock 3 comp that comes out, I believe, in 83, as well as the 7-inch, The Land of No Toilets. But this LP is a masterpiece. You can check it out. It is on Spotify. It is just fast, blazing hardcore. Carl's doing the scissor beat, but there's so much here. So it's like you have that blazing fast hardcore.
You also have so much tunefulness, like Jim's bass lines. Um, I don't know. I, it's, it's hard to describe what stands us out because it's like straightforward blazing hardcore, but then they, they take like little side roads that make the songwriting so creative. The lyrics are brilliant and positive, like the best of 84 hardcore. It is absolute classic LP. The cover is iconic drawn by Jaime Hernandez. And, uh, yeah, Joe, how would you describe this record?
Uh, perfection. I would describe it as, wow, I don't know. I mean, everything you said, the recording is fantastic, which is surprising for Mystic. All the instrumentation, like you said, Jim's playing. He layers in all these little noodles.
shout out uh uh you know uh carl's drumming is great you know you said scissor beat and he does that through probably most of the record but but he does have have some cool chops here and there stuff that he does john's vocals are like uh uh super aggressive and then he turns on this sort of prettiness in his voice at the same time uh yeah uh and then tony's guitar It was just, you know, a chainsaw.
Yeah. And the tone got way better from the seven inch.
Oh yeah. Way, way, way better.
Yeah. So this is ill. Everyone check it out. Next record. I wanted to put out there is solid 13 in control. This came out on upstart records in 1984. Uh, solid 13 has a demo before this. It actually, let me just go back to repeat real quick. I interviewed, uh, all four of the original members of ill repute. So you can check out those interviews, uh, For better history than I can provide now. Because I didn't take notes. So handle that. And for Stog 13, I interviewed Ron and I interviewed Blake.
So you can listen to those interviews as well. But Stog 13 in Control is a straight up masterpiece. Upstart Records had the budget. They went in and they spent thousands of dollars in 1984 to record this record. And it sounds like they did. Somehow everything is so clear. But it still has that old school punk hardcore sound. which we've talked a lot, like that old punk hardcore sound is like, it's almost the fifth or the sixth person in the band. Like that Sonic recording is so crucial.
Like it can't be stripped out. Like all these songs, when they get rerecorded or just anything from the early eighties, it gets rerecorded in the nineties or beyond. Like, it just doesn't sound the same. It's like they lost one of the crucial members of the band, you know? And like, This record just sounds perfect. You hear everything so clearly, but it's so aggressive yet tuneful. It's out of this world. The singing's great. All the musicianship is great.
It's one of the most listenable records of this genre, period. And we should say Aggression is playing an earlier 80s California punk style. It's similar if you wanted to compare them to... The Adolescents are something I wouldn't be mad at you. Ill Repute is playing like a blazing fast style where they're not shy about going to the scissor beat. So they're like going full on speed on a lot of the songs. Stalag is like doing heavy DC influence. So that's like more of their lane.
And this record is this great, again, cover drawn by Jaime Hernandez, completely iconic with those Hulk Hogan, red and yellow, you know, like just pops off the cover there. Joe, you have a take on this one?
It's amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, Casillas' guitar playing is just his shredding little licks here and there. Harry's drumming is fantastic. Ron's vocals are iconic, and the lyrics... probably more than anybody else, you know, are, I would say, more relatable to the masses than anything else. With songs like Black and Gray, you know, the other bands don't really touch on that sort of direct feeling, except, well, maybe Book and its cover, but from Mule to Puke. Yeah, it's good. It's wonderful. Get it. It's
like the surface of a lake. And everyone can get it. It is re-released by Doctor Strange, so it's in print. You can find this anywhere. Actually, not Doctor Strange anymore. I think it's Puke and Vomit. But anyway, it's out there. It's on the streaming. We'll link it up here. The next one I wanted to talk about was Doctor No Plug in Jesus. Came out in 1984. The original on Getaway Records, which is like a side thing of Mystic.
The I'll tell the patrons the rumor of why it's on Getaway and not on Mystic. Remind me and I'll tell you. I don't want to insult anyone on the main feed. So this record is obviously highly influential. All these dudes, like the old school Narco guys, if you talk to them, listening to Discharge was very influential to them. And Dr. No is the one that puts that sound down to wax the most.
like the big four um this is very dischargey db style but kyle has such a unique voice that sits on the top of it and uh isn't like gonna just sing about like politics he sings about wild stuff like it's kind of like a lot of heavy metal type lyrics on the top of like raging fast db hardcore it is so rad most people have heard this this might be the record that broke out and was the most famous of all these, possibly. Maybe that's controversial to say.
But because Dr. No crossed over into heavy metal, maybe they have a little bit wider of a swath of people that are familiar with them. But this record is absolutely amazing. Joe, do you think that's fair to say or no?
That's hard to say. I would say Ill Repute carried the most, but But that's hard to say. But the record is fantastic. Two guitars, Fred and Kyle. Rick Heller's drumming is so incredibly unique. Ismael's bass is fantastic. As you said, Kyle's vocals are very strange for punk rock because he has that almost squeal to his voice, but not Not a bad squeal. I'm messing that up on describing that.
No, actually, I think you're describing it really well. It's kind of like if he was a heavy metal singer, he would be doing the squeal, but he actually has a way of holding back his voice that it doesn't go there. That's a technique he's doing, but his voice is so rad he can hold it back that it doesn't sound like that. really niche like heavy metal
yeah
scream is it makes it so unique and cool i mean this guy is a fucking genius so um and for everyone you know i've interviewed ismail for this pod so you can check that out and we will get kyle at some point um it's one of the ones we got to get the last one i wanted to talk of obviously let's just talk about the elephant in the room it'd be very easy to just listen on the nardcore comp and get a good taste of all the stuff i mean really If you didn't want to listen to 5 and you just want to
listen to 1, you can just listen to Nardicore Comp. But I don't think it's on Spotify. So that's why I'm breaking this out. Plus, it gives the bands a little bit more glory. The next one I wanted to talk about. So Aggression came out in 83. Stalag, The Repute, Dr. No, all come out in 84. I want to talk about RKL. Comes out in 1985. The LP Keep Laughing on Mystic Records. Their 7-inch comes out in 84. But this LP... Again, just another iconic record that influenced so much.
The cover art done by Dan Seitz is iconic, and these guys are just shredders. Check out the interview I did with Chris Rest, and he goes into all this stuff, but these guys are just like young kids that know how to shred, they know how to write songs, and they just knock it out of the park.
And they go on to influence what would be some of the biggest bands in punk still, like Lagwagon, NoFX, you know, that realized like, oh, we got to get our chops up because we got to be able to hang with RKL, you know? I mean, straight up, like we've talked about before on the pod, like NoFX is straight up a mashup of RKL plus Bad Religion and Suffer, you know? And NoFX is one of the biggest bands in punk rock in the history of the music.
Joe, do you think I described this well enough or do you want to color it out a bit?
Oh, you did really well. The guitar playing stands out from all of the other bands. I'm not saying it's better. It's just more technical. And I think that's what you were trying to allude to. It's not just the guitar player. It's the whole band. But you hear the guitar more prominent than anything else, unfortunately, because you don't hear the bass very well on this recording. Thanks, Mystic.
It's so hard to hear the kick drum.
Yeah, and you can't hear the kick drum and stuff like that. So you miss a lot on what Bomber's doing on drums, and I can't remember who played bass on this one. It's before Joe. Anyway, there's so much energy trapped in this record. So get it.
Yeah, so that's my five. So If you were curious about where Nardcore came from, I would say that is where you should start. That is my starter kit. And Ben and Dan, how do you feel about that?
Which one do you want to talk first?
Well,
Ben,
let's go
to
you.
What's up? When I think of Nardcore, I think of the big four, kind of like Thrash Metal has a big four. And for Nardcore... I think of Aggression, Ill Repute, Solid 13, and Dr. No. So you got all of those. And the only reason I don't think of it as a big five with RKL is technically they're from Montecito, Santa Barbara. Anyway, it doesn't matter. They totally belong on this list. I think your list is perfect, and it's identical to the list I would have come up with myself.
I wouldn't have known which Dr. No record to pick, but they would have been on the list. This is a pretty cut and dry one. Okay, let's say you were nitpicky and you decided RKL's from Santa Barbara. Let's pick another band actually from Oxnard. Who would you pick? Rat Pack or False Confessions, right?
Yeah, the False Confessions 7-inch for sure.
Yeah, but RKL is as good as any other band on this list. They're so good. I agree with you to make an exception and have them on this list. this list. So I have no, uh, I mean, I have my own, you know, personal tastes, which is that aggression is the best thing here in our kale is just below that. Although, uh, talent wise, probably number one or tied with, with, uh, with aggression, but that's just, you know, my personal taste.
These are the five bands that belong on this, on this list for sure. Dan,
what's your take?
Well, I mean, this is the, as obvious as it gets, I think. And, I mean, who better for it to come from than you two? For anyone listening out there, I mean, Joe steeped in this scene forever. Zach has passion for this scene. What?
You, Jack.
No, I was going to say, Zach has passion for this scene unlike pretty much anyone I've ever... um known the reason that we are speaking on this pod right now is to commemorate and educate about this scene so take heed on this starter kit is right but i am not letting either of you off the hook right now if you had to pick the one record out of the or if you had to pick the one record out of the five what is the one
oh joe you can go first
Oh, God. It's going to be the one on Mystic.
Joe, you're
not getting off it. The nostalgia regression. He's narrowed it down to three. You've got to roll with it. You've narrowed it down to three, Joe.
I'm going to say what happens next. It's the closest to my heart. However... Don't be mistaken. Oh, man. See, that's so tough. It's those two. If it's one, it's what happens next. It'll repeat what happens next.
Yeah, me too. I mean, I can't live in a world without booking this cover. I love all these albums dearly. I can't imagine living in a world without Black and Gray or Conditioned. I can't imagine living in a world without the full aggression record, to be honest with you. What's a world without Dear John Litter? Good God. Even though that was a bonus track. That was actually on the comp.
My favorite is the Stalag LP out of them all.
Yeah, I think that for someone that is not familiar, but let's say you like Minor Threat, you like Seven Seconds, Stalag is probably like the one to listen to you
know it speaks to me the most but i i mean not not taking anything away from the other records they're all fantastic but the stalag is the one that i like and i i like the artwork the best on that one too i think that middle picture of his back against the wall while like shredding with like legs akimbo that is just such a unique like way to capture something i don't know it's so cool
it's so good Yeah, I love it. I absolutely love it. And I love going there. Kind of like 84, I think of a lot of black and white album covers. And here you are, blazing red and yellow. And I joke about the Hulk Hogan colors, but actually Hulk Hogan was wearing a bunch of different stuff in this period. It wasn't until a couple years later that he was always wearing red and yellow.
Well, it's an advertising thing. That's why McDonald's is red and yellow. Those are the two colors that will... pull your eye. If you're looking at a bunch of different things, you see those two colors together, your eyes are pulled there. So I think, uh, when, cause I was, this was in a psychology course I took. And one of the things is red is the color of blood and it, and danger and all of that. And so your eyes are just automatically like aware every time you see it.
But then there's something about the yellow that it's not, pigmentation just naturally pulls your eyes. So when you put the two together, that's why you'll find tons of things in the advertising world that are red and yellow.
So it's the reverse of the Adolescence LP, which is designed to fuck with your eyes. Those colors don't go together.
Exactly. The contrasting discordant music does.
Which is interesting because the RKL LP is actually blue and red as well. So how about that for a tie-in?
Yeah. I have an anecdote. After we interviewed Lisa, I think the very night we interviewed Lisa Fancher from Frontier Records. Go back and listen to that interview. We were texting each other and talking about what records... Did
she say who dis?
She said, new phone, who dis? And she goes... what rec i was asking her like what records did you reject i think she maybe mentioned that on in the interview itself and i said you know what i always thought this was a very frontiery record and i and i played her i sent her maybe rat race off of the aggression don't be mistaken lp it was something off of one of the more mid-tempo songs off don't be mistaken which had i guess a gone under her radar at the time.
And she goes, she goes, this is actually, this is actually really good. And I'm like, yeah, it's like, it could be, it could have been, you could have put this out. It's very frontier-y.
Yeah, but she's out by then, right? Like she actually like comes back in to do a suicidal record.
As far as like hardcore punk stuff. Yes. Correct. Suicidals 83. Right.
All right. Well, that is that. And everyone, You got to order the Dead Heat LP, Handle Business. Nardcore is still alive and well. And Joe, Out of Trust, still recording. But Out of Trust record later this year or next year. So things are still popping. And you know that Retaliate came out in December 2020. So Handle Business, indecisionpreference.com. And Nardcore for life. That's right. But yeah, everyone get the Narcor for Life comp. We put that out last year, too. Or Dave put it out.
We helped. But yeah, this thing is still alive. That is the first wave. And we can always talk another one. So what's up with that? Thank you for listening. I think that is everything. Shout out, Bailey. What's up, everyone? I got Vince Amador from Dead Heat and JP from In Time and FTK Records. What's up, dudes? Yo, how are you doing?
Hi.
Doing good. Oh, shit. Someone's popular. What's up? But yeah, capping off this Nardcore episode, you know, I interviewed Fester from the Rotters, and then I did my Nardcore starter kit, but I wanted to get some people on here that weren't grandpas. Vince, how old are you? I turned 31 this year. All right. You're getting up there. JP, how old are you?
I'm 28.
Okay, yeah. But a legit generation younger than me, I guess. Getting old is weird. But yeah. So when you listen to the starter kit that I did, does it resonate with you? Or do you think that I should have chosen different stuff for the early days of NARD?
No, I think the five records and bands that were chosen were just a great representation of what Narcore was in its beginnings. And it's like, those were my introductions to what that was too. When I, you know, heard these records in, you know, when I was in the seventh grade, I revisited after listening to what your list was and really like, you know, felt that all this still resonated with me and, you know, all those records are classics in their own way.
And, you know, such different styles of, what an hardcore is in all five of those records.
It's what makes it so special. I think is that they are so diverse. Like you don't have four or five, six bands all chasing like the same sound, you know? And I think that's really like carried through to like the bands of present. Like, don't you think that all the bands kind of have a different sound? There's not necessarily like a, an 805 sound. Do you think?
No, not so much anymore. I mean, there's, you know, In terms of modern hardcore, everyone's pulling from so many different wells now. And in the 80s, you could say the same thing, but it doesn't sound like they're all emulating the same thing, if that makes any sense. The Doc No record is heavy as hell, but it doesn't sound anything close to what Don't Be Mistaken sounds like.
Right, right. Yeah, because Don't Be Mistaken would be like, first gen like 1.5 as Bej would say you know or like that first gen of like the hardcore punk like past the original 70s shit you know and then Dr. No is like they're kind of doing like a like a discharge mashup with like really heavy metal it's crazy because I saw a flyer for like the Dr. No the plug-in Jesus like record release and it said they're death metal you know but like that that phrase didn't mean shit yet
I
mean like death metal, like the stuff that people relate to is like late eighties, you know, when the sound like gets gnarly. I mean, I mean, I guess you could consider like the, that first possessed record, like the seven churches, I think it is, you know, some people trace like the origins of death metal to that, but like, that's a wild sounding record. Like, I don't know if you guys listen to it, but like, it's, it's like the drumming is like worse than like a punk record, you know?
So like, but it gives it its charm. You know, it sounds, it's like one of those things where it sounds like it's going to fall apart and doesn't, which is like what makes a lot of like early hardcore great. And it makes that possessed record great. But like, you know, death metal is like, you know, 1989, like morbid angel. Like, you know what I mean? Alters of madness and shit. Or, or the first death records. Like that's like 87. No. Yeah. When is plug in G is like 84. Yeah. It's 84.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Go ahead. If that's not, you know, what we consider to be, you know, death metal at that point in time, I think it's really fucking cool that it, they're billed as a death metal band on that flyer.
Yeah. No, it's super cool. And I mean, it's like, it's death influenced, right? Like the, I don't know. There are metal bands at the time. And I guess you're singing about death and also like, you know, you have like the whole death rock thing is like popping by 84. So yeah. There is that. And if they're going metal, like maybe, I don't know who fucking knows that shit is, is wild, but yeah. So what's going on, dude, you guys recording?
No. So I, I knew I was going to come in here to do this thing at 10 and in time was practicing in here. So we share like a lockout space and we have like a little Google calendar where we just like set the times we're going to be in there. And I knew they were going to be in here. So I just kind of crashed our practice for the last hour, just hung out here until, you know, getting on this call. Yeah.
Yeah. Very appreciative of Vince, too. He's definitely helped us with playing and learning how to play music, and it's awesome.
Kind of the NARD MVP, dude, huh? Our merchant is the NARD MVP. I love it. I love it. What is in my time, or excuse me, what is in time up to? Sorry, we just talked Ignite on the pod, and so my brain got blocked.
yeah um well we uh finished well we recorded our ep probably uh last year i think yeah about a year ago um we're planning to release an ep on extinction burst records um and that should be coming out hopefully next month uh we have a few uh plans in the works uh trying to do a small uh small string of shows in September um that we're still figuring out but yeah yeah it's a lot of fun
that rules well Vince you guys Dead Heat had a big comeback that July 3rd 4th weekend good god man popped off huh
yeah that was a like you know surpassed my expectations of how it would be and that was technically my first show with Dead Heat so what a first show to you know have with the band um Yeah, the show was awesome. It was kind of stressful in the way that there were so many different groups of friends there. And I had to worry about managing the stage because we had to have the show over by 10.
We had to have it over by 9.50 really because we had an agreement with the tavern because they wanted to open up for a club night again at 11. And also it was an agreement so we could have it all ages that it would have to be over by 10. Or rather, all the underage people had to be out of the building by 10. So the show really had to run on a tight schedule. And so while the show was fun, it felt like I was working. Yeah,
but it's nice. Headlining sucks, but you guys headlined that show. At least then you were able to just enjoy it, right? Oh, yeah. The hard work is done. We've gotten this through. Now we're on stage. Let's let loose and get buck. Yeah. Yeah. And people turned out and yo, I had your back. I was holding up that speaker for like the second half of the dead heat set. Good God, man.
Thank you. I know. It was so funny. Like I was, I saw the sign that Josiah put on it, said something along the lines of like, please don't let me fall or something like that. That'll work. Yeah, I was like, oh, that's great. That's like a nice little halo for it, I guess. But throughout the night, like even the other bands, I saw people just kind of like hugging that pole and just making sure it wasn't swaying and making sure that, you know, it wasn't falling.
It's funny that that stage was a little more shallow than I thought it was going to be because we were basically trying to just emulate that terror show that was there last year. because I think that was the only other outdoor show that was at that patio in the tavern. And then when we got to the stage, I was like, oh, man, I think this is way more shallow than the terrace stage. And then we looked at the photos from that show, and, yeah, the stage was, like, maybe eight feet shorter.
But it made for a cool show because it was, like, you know, it felt very, like, chaotic in a good way, like a controlled chaos because everyone was just on that stage. And, you know, it made... It made it so no one could really stay on stage for too long because there was just not enough space for even the band. So if you're going to get on stage, you had to just jump off immediately.
Yeah, and smaller stages means more room for slamming, dude. Yeah, exactly. That was ill. But yeah, I mean, you couldn't stay on there that long, but I saw some potatoes try, dude. Oh, yeah. Some potatoes were hanging tight to that stage. Yeah. Bounce, dude. Get your dive on, fool. Let's go. But yeah, so Dead Heat, you know, that's your first show with them. But you did like play a crucial role in the LP, correct?
Oh, yeah. So when I joined the band, which was maybe February of 2020. So I got asked to join the band because initially I just got asked to fill in on guitar for a Japan tour because Anthony couldn't do it. And so I agreed. And then, um, shortly after that Brando, the original basis was like, yeah, I need to move away to school. I got into Berkeley and like, I'm not going to not do that. And we're like, yeah, that's totally fine.
And so I hopped over to base and then that's when the writing process really started for that next record or a world at war. So, um, yeah. Um, a lot of the writing was, you know, all of us, which was cool. Cause we were, uh, always meeting up in their lockout in Ventura. Benji has a lockout in Ventura, which Dead Heat Practices is in. And we wrote a good chunk of the record there. Actually, all of the record there. And yeah, it was nice to have my input on an LP.
That's the first hardcore LP I'd ever been a part of.
Whose idea was it to go all in on Age of Dead Heat? Let's not just do some ST influence. Let's turn it up to 11 and just let them know. That's actually,
that's J-Nuts song. The working title, it's funny, I'm still learning the actual titles of the song because I just call them by the working titles. So that song was initially called J-Nuts War. And he just brought it in, like the full song basically completed.
And when we heard the first, or I guess not the main riff, the first, riff at the start of the song the suicidal riff i was like oh my god that is just suicidal and like it wasn't anything that we're like yeah we gotta change it we're like no let's just write it that's fucking cool like it's obviously suicidal like you know more shit but you know we just we just gotta do it i mean like the last record we already ripped a full uh full suicidal section anyway might as well just you know
it's so ill like that's what's so ill about it is that it's completely unapologetic and you're just owning it you know and it popped like at the show like people were chanting you know and they were like chanting early like before the chant comes in I was like oh hell yeah I'll chant early too what's
up I remember when that happened I looked at Jaina we were laughing because it threw Chris off and he started singing the verse early and we were like because like the whole chanting early is like he put on like a whole like four bars early and i was like what the fuck is going on but like luckily like we were all on the same page and we didn't like shit forward also
yeah no that was so ill like that was like one of my happiest show moments is like just when everyone started chanting that shit i was like oh this feels good dude we're back yeah yeah you know that rules jp you were at the show
Yeah, it was wild. I stayed in the back to watch it all unfold. That was crazy.
Yeah.
We're proud of all those guys.
Dude. Hell yeah. That's like one of the greatest things about Narcor, I think, is like, you know, I don't feel like there's a competition. You know what I mean? Like, I literally root for everyone.
Absolutely. Yeah,
same. So cool. Dead Heat, you got lots of plans. You going out east? What's up?
Yeah. So, um, by the time this airs, um, so Thursday morning, we're announcing, uh, we're doing a little East coast run with municipal waste. So that's going to be in November. Um,
yeah, Vince, I'll jump in on you. We're recording this on Wednesday, July 21st. This will air on Monday.
Oh, cool. So yeah, it's getting announced tomorrow or on Thursday, the 22nd. So it may be out by then, but yeah. So, um, I'm actually opening our calendar right now because there's so much that we have planned. So that's going to be in November. I'm actually not doing that run, unfortunately, because I can't get off work. But we have that. We have August with Mindforce and Regulate. We're doing that. And then, yeah. Oh, wait, I can't.
And some other stuff that hasn't been, that won't be announced by then. But, yeah, we have a lot of shows coming up. And then, yeah, it's a lot. It's kind of, like, overwhelming, really. Like, the Dead Heat chat is always popping off with, like, things we're doing and, like, us all just kind of scrambling to kind of figure out if we can get the time off work.
Yeah. Yeah, I saw you were doing the Mindforce run, and that's ill because that's, like, my favorite band, you know? Yeah. so good um they trying to bring that to the tavern still john was saying
so um after the dead heat show john won't be booking at the tavern anymore so uh that show isn't happening at the tavern anymore and now they're just doing a chain reaction show uh yeah
who ruined
it for john what's up i actually don't know the full details of that i just know that he's just not going to be doing anything there anymore
shout out john he did some great shows there and and really turned like a, like a place he wouldn't suspect like classic hardcore shows to pop off at. Like he did a, he did a bunch dude. And so much respect that in like the tavern, keeping it kind of real.
Yeah. Legendary retaliate set in that building in the, in the small room. Yeah.
I loved it. That place was great. And like, Yeah, I can't even imagine playing on a big stage again. I'm like, I just want to play this room. I like it too much.
Yeah, shout out to John, really, because he really made it happen. Making sure that the Dead Heat record show was all ages was something that was really big for us. I wouldn't have done it there if we couldn't have had it all ages. Because coming to that show, there was a bunch of kids who had never seen live hardcore yet. Because like, I totally forgot that the world was shut down for a whole year.
And there are probably a lot of younger people, maybe in high school or even younger, that maybe heard Dead Heat or even just hardcore in general and had never seen it live. And that show was the first one for a lot of people. And that was really cool to me. And it being all ages was the only reason it happened.
Right. We should say that we're talking about John from the band Slow Bleed. Oh, yeah. If people aren't aware, check out slow bleed. They're sick. And yeah, you're right. Vince, like, you know, yeah, the world shut down. There's a lot of people that were bored. They're fucking around on their phones for a year, like looking for videos and discovering hardcore like that is wild. Huh?
And it's so cool because like these people that are seeing these first shows back, it's like, I've been going to shows a long time and like legitimately, like this is as good as it gets. Like they're coming in at a nice time. Right. And like, maybe the youth will like keep this vibe going.
Oh, totally. I mean, there's already a ton of like shows happening done by really young people in the scene. That's really awesome. Like I've, I've gone to a number of them and like, you know, the energy is there and like, I don't know, the instinct to do everything yourself is alive and well, which is really cool to me.
That rules. I just, I hope it carries through for a long time. Right. Like I'm, I hope that everyone doesn't go to a bunch of shows this summer and like burns out by November.
Yeah. It's funny. I was thinking about that too. Cause this Friday we're playing at the smell. He's playing the smell. And I was like, dang, is everyone already tapped out? Cause this is going to be like, you know, a smaller venue show. And like every show that's happened thus far in California has been like this massive event. Like, you know, like the, like the dead city punk show in LA, like that was a movie, you know, like, how do shows keep topping that, you know?
And like, okay, here's a small club show. I hope this pops off.
Right. Right. Do people need like the, the full buy-in of the chaos? Like as, as part of like, you know how we talk about like early hardcore bands, like that old lo-fi sound that you get on the records is almost like the fifth member in the band. Like, do we need, do we need like this chaos from shows? Is that like, actually the headlining act, you
know? Yeah. Like are people not going to, are people going to stop caring about hardcore shows if there's no burning car in the background? Right.
Right. Like just the normal show, like Wednesday night at chain reaction. Are we fired up on this still? I hope.
Yeah. No, I think it was going to be cool, but you know, I was thinking that in the back of my head, I was like, dang, I don't think we're going to be able to, you know, shoot fireworks inside the smell. How is this going to pop off?
The smell used to be kind of lawless, dude. Yeah. You
know
what's funny?
I've been going to shows that smell, you know, like since I could start driving when I was like 19. And I had never been to a hardcore show to smell.
There was like classic shows, dude. Like the, I think the last, I can't remember if it was the last show or the reunion show, No Reply was there. The Final Life's Halt show was definitely there. And yeah, like it's been going for a long time. Yeah. And
like, I think one of the sounding theories, like the recent ones, they did an after show there and I didn't get in that show. And I was like, Oh, that'd be my first hardware show at the smell. And I just didn't go to it.
Yeah. That was wild. Well, anyway, this was awesome. Good to hear like that. He's popping off FTK records still popping off. Congratulations on the reflections comp that you instituted last year.
Yeah,
man. And anything else you guys want to say before we jump off?
Um, so I know we didn't touch very much on the star kit, but I just want to say that plug in Jesus, like every month that I get older, I think that becomes my favorite Nordcore record.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, fucking good, man. Like
it's so good. I mean, musically it's the best one.
Yeah. Right.
It's just like a, it's a nice chunk of music.
Yeah. sweet I mean like you know what happens next like you know that's I think that will always be number one like just overall but Plugin Jesus is just like it's so crazy and like I finally got my hands on a copy of that LP like on Getaway yeah now it's like that's my prized possession in my collection it's like and I like it's funny like I have it and I just keep it in plastic and keep it nice and I just listen to like a different copy of it, the one that has Burn on it, like, you know, the
compilation version of that.
Right.
Like, I'll just play that one instead.
You know the story why that LP is supposedly on Getaway?
Does that have something to do with Phil?
No. So, well, yeah, that's Phil's, like, spinoff label. But the rumor was always that they didn't want to be on the same label as a shitty backyard punk band, The Grimm.
Oh, that's hilarious.
But...
So, I mean, they technically still are, then, if it's on Getaway.
Yeah, but if people don't know, like, nah, dude, Grimm's on Mystic. Dr. Rose on Getaway. Yeah. Shout out to the Grimm. I like that LP, too. Actually, I like all three Grimm LPs, including the one that came out last year. So, what's up?
Did they get a record last year?
Yeah. Last year, maybe 2019. Like,
recently.
Yeah, real recently. And, dude, the artwork is ill. Look it up on Discogs. It's sick. They're world order. That's what I'm looking at right now, right? Yeah. Yeah. They put out like a, like, okay. So they got that orange one. They put out a couple of seven inches that might've just been live records. And then they put out like a 1988 LP. It's like the cover sucks. It's like maybe a blurry face or something.
It's kind of, it's kind of just like nondescript, but yeah, they put out an album like 2019. It's still like got that orange feeling theme, you know, it's kind of a return to form and, and they're really good live. Like I saw like, Stalag 13 came down whenever Ryan was singing before John started doing it. It played San Diego and The Grimm played and fucking Grimm kills it, dude.
I think one time I saw The Grimm. I may be confusing shows, but it was at The Loft with The Freeze. I think it was The Freeze and The Grimm. And I just remember them being so bad.
The Grimm or The Freeze? Oh, word. Wild. Yeah. I saw that. I wasn't. Yeah.
One of the, the Nard fest and they're awesome.
Yeah. Yeah. I saw photos like blitz came through when they only had like one original member and they played the loft and Fred like took this photo and the guitarist looked so bummed out and depressed. And then I saw you got hit by like a train or a car, like a few days later in Texas.
Oh, yeah.
That's a rough end to one of my favorite bands of all time. Anyway, we'll end on that happy note. Shout out to all the Blitz fans.