¶ Intro / Opening
What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, I got Chris Rest from RKL. So I'm super stoked on that. It has been a long time in the making, and it's a great interview. I think you're going to like it. Also, got Greg from Take a Fence On to challenge Daniel in a round of trivia, and we're going to do a little Side A, Side B. So super good episode. I think you're going to like it, so check that out. You got to support the podcast by subscribing to it wherever you listen to it. Tell all your friends.
Also, if you want to go the extra mile, you can go to patreon.com slash 185 miles south become a monthly patreon these are the people that keep the show alive there are bonus episodes one dollar gets you behind the paywall if you want to hook it up with more that is much appreciated and you can also go to the website 185milesouth.com there's a playlist for every episode check that out all our links are on there for social media the patreon etc etc so do that but Last week, we rolled out vocal
test karaoke. Chris Ramos and Jeremy Smith started us off. It's time I throw my hat out there, man. Got to throw my chips on the table, you know? So here's my take. I hope you like it, and then we're going to bust into Chris. What's up?
What's up?
¶ Interview: Chris Rest (RKL)
What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, we have Chris Rest of RKL and Lagwagon. How you doing, Chris?
Good. How are you
doing? I'm doing great. Thanks so much for doing this. You were one of the first people I wanted, and we've been playing tag for maybe two years now.
Well, I'm here now.
It is much appreciated. How do you get into punk, and how do you meet the guys in RKL?
Well, that's a crazy story. I kind of... Well, when I first listened to my first punk record, which was the Clash London Calling, I didn't know that was a punk record. It was a record that was owned by someone that was renting a room from my parents. And he just let me listen to all his records. And that was one that I liked. And I especially liked the cover with Paul Simon and Smashing the Bass. And I was attracted to that right away.
And then So I was totally into that record, but I was also into the Cars and Cheap Trick and ELO and a bunch of late 70s stuff. But it wasn't until... I didn't have any older siblings to show me what to listen to, so I had to kind of discover stuff on my own. I used to just buy albums by the cover of what they looked like, and I remember I bought... an ELO record because it had, like, this spaceship thing on it, and I really liked that record, and then I bought... What was the other one?
I think it was... Oh, Boston. Like, I bought a Boston record because I was into, like, spaceships and stuff. I was pretty young, but then I remember I bought a Molly Hatchet record. I mean, not Molly Hatchet. Oh, Meatloaf, Bad Outta Hell, and... And it was not what I expected. I mean, it's a great record, but for a 13-year-old kid, I would have to say that the album cover and the title was a little deceiving.
But yeah, I didn't really discover true punk rock and know that it was punk rock until junior high school. And I met a couple new friends there, and they And the first record we bought was Nevermind the Bollocks. And they brought that home. And we just listened to that over and over again. And the next one we got was Group Sex, The Circle Jerks. And then I think I bought a Dead Kennedys record, the one In God We Trust, I think it's called. And we just kind of kept going from there.
But the thing with RKL is kind of interesting because I met Jason Sears in sixth grade or maybe even fifth grade. He was on my soccer team. And he went to a different school, a different grade school. And he was kind of a legendary person. Like people always say, oh, that guy's crazy. He used to do weird things like drink a glass of milk and then puke it up and then drink it again and snort a chain up his nose. And he did all these crazy things.
And then Bomber, I met when my family moved to Summerlin, California, which is not very far away from Santa Barbara. But Bomber, I used to have this drum kit. in my room and my little guitar and amp set up. I played drums before I played guitar. And my friends from junior high would come over and one of them would play drums, the other would sing into the, we had this big old beatbox or ghetto blaster we'd record on and just make songs.
But Balmer came over and he started playing on my drum and he was instantly shredding like, better than my friend and my friend got all upset but um he was just good at everything and um it was weird because i moved and then bomber moved to another town and we ended up seeing each other there and then um then we when we started high school we both went to the same high school and that summer right before we started high school We kind of started RKL. We were going to call our band Social Revolt.
And, you know, by then we were all into punk rock, pretty much full bore. The first punk show I ever went to was an Agent Orange show in Goleta. And my two friends that I went to junior high school with, they used to go down to Godzilla's with this older friend we had. But I was... too scared to go to LA shows. It sounded too gnarly for me. Yeah, but... Does
RKL start jamming right around that time when you realized that Bomber was so impressive with the drums?
No, I mean, I would just play and he would play drums and then... But it was like...
So what happened was right before we started high school that summer, we moved into a... another house and Bomber would stay there a lot and we decided to start a band and we said well we need two guitar players and so we asked Joey Cape if he wanted to play guitar he said only if my friend Jason Sears can sing and I said well I know Jason yeah that's cool and Jason came with Joey and we were at the time we were just playing like Wasted Youth covers and I think we played Bloodstains and Joey
Cape was kind of into metal at the time, like really into metal. And so he kind of thought we were not his bag, but Jason was totally into it. So Jason stayed and Joey was only there for that one day. And then we started playing parties, house parties around town whenever we could. They usually got shut down before we got through more than a couple songs. But we eventually finally got a real show. Oh, I was wrong. The Asian Orange Show was the first show we ever played.
My first punk show I ever went to was DOA. And it was at the same venue. And I was so little, I remember I tried to go into the pit. And I was like elbow height. And so I instantly got an elbow to the nose. And then I was just bleeding all over and I just kind of let it go down my shirt. I thought that was punk. And everyone was just giving me the craziest looks.
Yeah. Was that Goleta Community Center?
Yeah.
Right on. Yeah.
Yeah. DOA, Goleta Community Center. And then Yeah, the show that RKL played with Agent Orange, I've never seen a flyer from it. And I did see a flyer that says RKL and social distortion. And I think maybe social distortion canceled and Agent Orange took their place or something because I don't remember ever playing with social D.
Well, there you go. 185 listeners, find that flyer. We'll track it down. Does RKL demo at all before you record at Mystic?
Yeah, we used to go down to Ventura Goldmine Studios. It was $100 for eight hours, and I believe it was eight track. It could have been 16 track. We did it twice. The first time, we were really serious about it, and it came out pretty cool. And then the second time, Jason drank a whole case of beer before he was doing his vocals, and He was gnarly, but the recording was still really cool.
And I remember Fear Hypo used to have a show on K-Tide, and he let us come into the studio and play our demo on the air. And that was a pretty big deal. That was like the biggest station in Santa Barbara, and it was FM. And they let us come in and play our $100 demo live. on the air and we left the tapes there and never got them back and we never had any copies of it or anything so
so both demos are gone forever
one of them i have a few songs that were recorded like a tape of a tape of a tape or something and i have a few songs off that somewhere just on a hard drive but the other one is gone in um Yeah, those were the only recordings. Besides, we used to record with that same ghetto blaster. We used to just put it in the garage and record our practices. I remember somehow we got a fan mail from UK, and it was from one of our garage tapes. And then we were totally blown away by that.
I think one of our friends took one over there when he went to go visit with his parents in London. So that was a really big milestone for us. We're like, wow, we're worldwide. It
was so rad. 1984 is such a crazy year. There's so much stuff that comes out. Your 7-inch comes out. It's a beautiful feeling. And also the tracks on the Nardcore comp. Do you remember which one came first?
The Mystic always put the band on a comp first. And he would see who got the most fan mail. Then he'd do a 7-inch. And if it did well, then he'd do a 7-inch. full length.
Do you have any memories of recording those three songs for the Narco comp?
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I know that I can't, there's only, I think we went there three times once for another comp. I think it was like a slimy Valley one or something, but yeah, They used to use old tapes from like the 60s and 70s that were just lying around and record over them. And so there'd be all these weird tracks on the same, on the empty tracks that we were recording on. And yeah, I remember like one thing, I think we weren't in the same room as the amps.
We couldn't be in the same room as the amps. I don't even know where he... put the amps they were like maybe in the basement or something but uh so i was like well we want guitar feedback on this part and so he had me sit on like a six foot ladder so i was in front of the the big monitors in the control room so i could get so i could get feedback from the amp
and
um yeah so like the seven inch i don't really remember the recording for for the narncore comp but i know for the seven inch i had this um rockman little like this was kind of like a walkman but for guitar it was one of the very first portable like headphone amp things and um it actually sounded pretty good and i used to play through that into my amp and that's why there's that crazy chorus on the guitar on that seven inch because i was playing through that the tom schultz rockman
Yeah, just to back up a second, how did it feel to have those songs come out of the Narco comp? Because you guys have been kind of notorious for being such a ripping band, bringing up the musicianship in that scene. And to hear yourself down with a pretty decent recording on those Narco songs, how did that feel to you?
Well, I mean, we totally looked up to bands like Aggression and Dr. No at the time. And so we felt honored. And I mean, it was... a big deal for us to be on vinyl. It's just so cool. I mean, we were young, so it was pretty exciting.
Yeah, how old would you have been in 84?
Seven, or I should say 16. I guess 16.
In the 15 to 17 range, we can say safely.
Yeah, 84, 85, 86, 87. So yeah, 16.
Yeah, yeah. Were you happy with those songs and then also with the 7-inch?
I mean, anytime you record something, you always wish it could have been better. Like the drums had some weird things going on on the 7-inch. Like that one song starts with the drum thing. And the reverb, I think they used like a real reverb in their basement. They would set a microphone... on one end of the basement and then a speaker on the other end and, and record it. And that was like their natural reverb. And it got this weird, like thing going on.
There was a couple of things we were like, well, that's weird, but yeah, it was, it was what it was.
Well, at least they didn't delete your kick drum track. Like they did on the repute seven inch. You didn't have to go in and dub it in with a spoon and a coffee can.
Oh, no, I didn't.
But, yeah. How do you approach writing the Keep Laughing LP? Because now you've done some comp tracks, you've done a 7-inch, and now you're going to write your first LP. What's the process like?
I think that Palmer started writing a lot more songs then, and songs just came out of him. He would wake up in the morning with a new song in his head. He was a genius, basically. And then, you know, we would... Jason was really good at lyrics. And we would just kind of sit around in Jason's bedroom mostly and just start jamming stuff. And sometimes I would just start playing something in the garage and everyone would just kind of join in.
But like, Bomber was heavily influenced by Minor Threat and Bad Brains. And that's very... We have a couple songs that are almost like direct rip-offs from both of those bands. So I think... I mean, Bomber definitely wrote the majority of the music, I'd say. And then we all just kind of added our own bits and pieces to it.
Yeah. You guys like legit rip, right? What is that for kids that are so young to take... your craft so seriously with your instruments. Why do you think that was?
We just, well, cause we, we grew up listening to classic rock, I guess. And we just, that was always our, what we, you know, when I started playing guitar, I wanted to be Rick Nielsen, you know, I wanted to play guitar solos. And, and then, you know, when we kept discovering bands that were shredding like bad brains and even iron maiden. And so we kind of, Blurred the lines. But Iron Maiden blurred the lines between punk rock and metal and rock.
So that's kind of where we wanted to take punk rock. Every band that we played with outside of the good hardcore bands were horrible thrash bands, almost, for the most part. On the first two US tours, pretty much every band we played with that was local was just like the worst thrash bands you ever heard. Just the barking dog vocals and just, you know, just like two chords, just the worst.
But I don't know, I think now, even bands that suck now, like don't suck, they can play, you know, it's just, it's a different world. Like back then, really, bands could not play their instruments and they were just horrible, like literally horrible. Like I don't, I rarely see a band where I think, wow, they really suck. I mean, I may, I may not like a lot of bands that I see, but I don't necessarily see bands that suck that much anymore.
I don't think people have the guts to go out there and suck.
Yeah. I mean, they're proficient at least we can say, right.
Yeah.
Yeah. When is it that you do your first tour? Is that before or after the LP?
I think they shipped us, what, the first tour was with Dr. No. And it was kind of like a co-headlining thing, Dr. No, RKL. And we were all in one van in the middle of summer, and it was miserable. And, like, all the shows were getting canceled everywhere we went. And it was just the worst thing ever. And, um... But we had some good shows, and I think they shipped us a box of LPs when we got to New Jersey or something. So that was right when Keep Laughing came out.
No, go ahead. Sorry.
Yeah, it was the middle of that tour is when that record came out, I'm pretty sure. But there was another tour the next year, and it could have been that tour. I get them mixed up.
Yeah. Do you remember any standout shows from either tour?
Well, there's a couple. One, I remember, because we had that song, Why, and Life in a Bottle, some people thought we were a straight edge band, which obviously we weren't. Our name is Rich Kids on LSD. I mean, we didn't come up with the name of the band, but we could have ditched it and we kept it. And so we showed up this one show, And it was kind of a DIY show, they all were. And all the kids had X's on their hands, and that's fine, but we're like, where's our beer? It was a pretty cool place.
It was kind of like a squatted house or something. And I remember the stage was short. It was only like eight inches high, but it collapsed while we were playing, and everyone was like... Totally confused by us because they thought we were straight edge and we weren't. When we got to Atlanta, I remember there was kind of a weird skinhead scene there. But I remember we got there a day before the show and they let us sleep in the venue and it had not been cleaned since the last show.
It was just filthy and there was like rats everywhere. And DOA showed up and they had the same plan, but we had already like got the best spots to sleep on the stage. It was like the only place where there was carpet and they're like, oh man. So I think they went and found a hotel, a motel or something.
Yeah. Just to back up, we should have you say how you got the name of the band.
As far as I remember, we were going to play a show. And this one guy that was in another band, local, said, oh, those guys are never going to amount to anything. They're just a bunch of rich boys on LSD or something. And so when that got back to us that he was saying that, we just said, oh, well, let's just go with that. Because there's so many social everything and social revolt, social whatever. And so, yeah.
And then the beanie boy, I remember me and Jason were talking about that old cartoon, Beanie and Cecil. And we thought, oh, that's so cool. The beanie hat, you know, it's kind of like has an acid connotation, you know, with your, you know, the propeller, you know. And so he started drawing this beanie boy and with like big dilated pupils. And I will argue that that is where the Beanie Boy came from, although other people have said that they came up with the idea.
But as far as I remember, that was Jason that drew the first one.
Before Dan Seitz started drawing it.
Yeah, and we told him to draw one. And that became, like, the Beanie Boy.
Yeah, super cool. What do you remember about, like, the scene... in the area, Santa Barbara Talks, not in like the 85 era?
For the most part, it was boring. There wasn't a lot going on. We had to make our own parties and they always got busted up and the jocks hated all the punk rockers at our school, but the punk rockers pretty much were all really good friends with each other and It was a pretty cool scene in that respect. And then whenever we did have shows like at Goleta, they were always pretty good shows. And then Casa de la Raza, when that opened up, was pretty cool.
There was a couple of punk shows before I was even old enough to go to shows. There's this Black Flag played right on State Street at this little tiny place called George's. And I remember seeing some write-up about it in like the news press maybe, and maybe, I don't know, whatever the local paper was. And then I didn't really know what punk rock was.
I had seen like some documentary on TV and it showed these punk rockers in London and they were like eating red jello off of baby dolls, and they had all these piercings, and they were super, super punk, and I was just frightened by it. So that was what I thought punk rock was, but I remember seeing this thing, Black Flag, so punk rock invades Santa Barbara or something, and I didn't go.
There was one punk band that was early on, and they were actually from Carpinteria, and they were called the Strap-On Dicks, And the singer's name was Chris Syphilis. And one of the very first concert, I think it was, yeah, the very first concert I ever went to, my parents took me to go see the Knack and the Rubber City Rebels at this place in Isla Vista on campus. And I really was into the Knack. And this was right when the Knack happened.
you know, blew up with my Sharona and there was a big backlash because they were sort of like an underground band before that happened. And, um, uh, there, so a lot of people were pissed off that they went so mainstream and had this big hit and, uh, for syphilis, I saw him there and he was wearing a leather jacket and said, fuck the knack and huge block letters on the back of his leather jacket. And I was like offended. And he had like a Rubber City Rebels t-shirt on.
And that was like my first exposure to a real punk rocker, I think.
Did that band ever record? I've never heard of them.
I don't think so. I saw a few photos of them in like a Carpinteria local paper, like just internet archives somewhere. And I keep asking people that grew up in Carpinteria, if they know anything about it. As far as I know, there's no recordings. They probably only played a couple of parties. I think I've heard they played at Carpinteria High School in the quad once.
How do you hook up with Alchemy Records? You do the second LP there. They had a really big year there in 87. They do your second LP, Rock and Roll Nightmare, They do the Neurosis Record, Pain of Mind, and they do the Poison Idea, War All the Time. That's a raging year for a label.
Yeah, and he was just one guy. It was two guys, and they were based out of England. Balmer met... What was his name? I can't remember at the moment, but I think Balmer met him. He might have met him in England, but somehow they hit it off, and... I don't know. He forked out the money to do the full comic book and everything. Most labels would not have done that. I mean, it was expensive to print that. So that was really cool. I wish I had more copies of that.
I can still find them on eBay occasionally.
Yeah, I have the LP, but no comic book. Yeah. I mean, like most people that probably have the LP now.
Yeah.
Had you gone to Europe before at that time, or was that like the real catalyst to get you over there?
No. The first time we went was 88, and the only reason that we went was because Barry had joined our band, and he knew Dave Pollack from going there just on his own. He just went to Europe with no plan. I don't think he just some friends, just writing letters back and forth. And he met Dave Pollack. and set up that we were the first california band i think that that dave brought over there and basically paved the way for no effects and all the other destiny bands
yeah i want to talk a little bit about how how you perceive rock and roll nightmare being influential or not because it seems to me that you know with like the punk explosion of the early 90s you know with the fat records and the epitaph stuff to me it it This LP is criminally underrated.
It's kind of like if you just took a little more of the melody of Bad Religion Suffer and mesh it with Rock and Roll Nightmare, that's what a lot of those bands kind of sound like, like the NoFXs, the Lagwagons, the Propagandis. Do you hear that or not?
Yeah, I mean, the speed, and we didn't come up with that, you know, like... When I was super into Battalion of Saints, and they always used that, you know, turbo California, that double-time drum, hardcore beat, you know, and then Bad Brains. And then we just kind of mixed it with, you know, Iron Maiden, because that's what we were into. Also, you know, we would put on, you know...
Iron Maiden and then we would put on Wasted Youth and then we would listen to The Damned and so we just kind of had all these different influences and Bomber just always wanted us to be better and better and better. He used to make us practice in the dark. He was like the driving force. Without Bomber, I don't think we would have become the band that we were. I mean, I know we wouldn't have.
Yeah, you're isolating that drum beat, and that's one of the things on this pod we've been trying to get to the bottom of, is the origin of the do-da-da-da-da beat. Yeah. And, I mean, my theory was that Bomber would be the first, and then Smelly took, like, a piece of it and, like, ran with it, you know? Do you think that Bomber was the first? The do-da-da-da-da, do-da-da-da-da, do-da-da-da-da?
No.
Who do you think was? Do you think it was Battalion of Saints?
There's probably others before that.
It's so hard to hear the kick drum on a lot of the earlier records.
But Balmer did it differently than anyone I've ever seen. He had these syncopated kick drum things that no one still to this day don't do.
It's like this... I don't know if I can do it without... screwing up the mic there's like you know like this little triplet at the end and like he wrote all the bass lines all the guitar lines like that like he was always thinking in these like 16th notes you know so that he would have these like kind of grooving the thing that was interesting about is like it wasn't just like the dri you know one two three four like super square beats they had this groove where you could kind of groove halftime
and and sway to it but you could also like totally thrash
to it right it has a little more swing to it yeah it's epic um yeah i mean that that record is just i don't know
Bad Brains definitely use that beat. I'm pretty sure Minor Thread uses that beat. Definitely Battalion of Saints. Yeah, they might be doing... That Second Coming song is... Right.
I'm going to have to listen closer because I don't know if they're doing that or if they're doing... Oh, that's probably
true.
Yeah, which is the more typical beat. And then the... is more of like... That early 90s fat rec beat that every band does. But anyway.
Bill Stevenson called it the butt fuck, titty
fuck beat. Oh, my God. Well, he can get away with it. He's Bill Stevenson. What are your memories of going to Europe the first time? You do a live double LP that comes out on Destiny Records in 1988. So that's pretty rad.
That first tour was... crazy um both those 89 and 88 tours were crazy but um yeah i mean we get there we've never been anywhere really outside of the country and um so um dave pollock's band no allegiance was uh opening for us and their drummer i think it was he was the drummer his name was yannick and he had dreadlocks and missing teeth he was a total like punk rocker and um and i you know the punk rockers that i had been exposed to were california punkers a lot of them were surfers or whatever
and just kind of clean compared to this was like true punk rock you know and so i come out to the van and he's either taking stuff out of his van. He had this super filthy sleeping bag. And he was like, he had this really grovelly voice. Like, I can't do it. He was singing in German. And I don't know what it was, but hold on a second.
So he's singing this weird... song and he turns to me and he has like missing teeth and he smiles and he goes heil Hitler I was just like mortified and um obviously he was kidding he was like an anarchist guy but um uh all the shows almost like I would say 80% of the shows on that tour were in squats and um so we were just pulling to town and we just we started to say, well, just look, you know, where do we go? Just look for the crumbling brick building with the arrow and the circle on it.
And we were pretty much always right. And that was, but the, some of the squats are so well organized, you know, they had full working kitchens and they'd come out and bring us food and stuff. And it's usually curry rice. And we called it rise in mid Shiza. And, but, you know, some of them had full on restaurants and, in, like, pretty decent places to sleep sometimes, sometimes not. And we were really just surprised at how organized it was and how it was...
Punk Rock was different there because there really was neo-Nazis in Europe, and here the Nazis were just suburban kids that were bored and wanted to beat people up. And, you know, in Europe, there were true neo-Nazis. Like, they... were the real deal, and they were grown-ups. It wasn't just people goofing around.
Yeah, would they fight them?
The squatters would throw bricks down. Some of these squats were like old police fortresses, and when the Nazis would come around, they would seriously fight back.
I mean, we never had any... incidents at our shows but that we'd hear stories all the time about it and everywhere you went there was anti-fascist signs everywhere and there's you know there were all the punk rockers in Europe were very politically like um aware you know like you know they were vegans and all this stuff and we were still like just dumb California kids and oh you you california people you still eat mcdonald's what's wrong with you how can you live in a country that is so corrupt
that you know and we're just we we had definitely uh awakening there
yeah that's wild chris i can edit this out and you don't have to listen to or answer it but you had a roadie pass away on one of those didn't you
yeah he's a really good friend
That's insane.
Yeah, that was Will and Will Natilla. And we wrote that song, Will to Survive. It's on the Richest of Rags record. That's about him. Yeah, it was horrible. We've had so many friends die. It's ridiculous. I know. Over 30 people that I know are dead.
Yeah, when I was preparing for this interview the first time, I was going through and looking at that and thinking about it, and I was just like, there's so much tragedy that surrounds you. I
don't know what it is. It's kind of Santa Barbara, I guess.
Yeah, that's wild. Okay, back into happier things or making funnier things. In 89, there's two records that come out, and one is you guys doing Revenge is a Beautiful Feeling, which is like the 7-inch and the the first mystic LP. And then mystic also puts up the best of RKL on mystic. It's Doug booty on the cover of the revenge is a beautiful feeling, correct?
Yeah.
Yeah. How does that come about?
We, we just, since they never paid us and anything, not even, we never got even a royalty statement or anything. And we would ask for stuff and they would just, yeah, it's in the mail and nothing ever came. And we started just trash talking and, I feel kind of bad about it, but they still, to this day, have never paid anyone a cent, as far as I know. None of the bands.
Did they give you boxes of records or anything?
We got one box of records. Probably 50 records, I guess, is in a box. I'm not sure. That was it. I feel bad that we talked so much shit about them, because... Nobody else would have released our stuff back then. We were just kids. I mean, I don't know. So I think without Mystic, I don't know what would happen. We might not have stayed together. I mean, having a record made us a real band.
Right. One record got you to the next record.
Yeah.
Yeah. But I mean, it is funny. It's a funny depiction because it's like, it's total 1987, like, computer art i
think it was done in airbrush
oh it was it was airbrushed yeah oh yeah it looks so rad though but um yeah what happens like in the the time between like those two euro tours and before you do reactivate on epitaph are you guys still playing around are you taking a break or what's going on
armor didn't want to play drums anymore he he felt that um jason was holding us back kind of because you know bomber heard all these things in his head when he wrote a song he you know you could hear all these vocal melodies and jason was an awesome front man and awesome lyricist and an awesome performer and but he wasn't the singer that bomber wanted and then bomber started getting into bands like living color and and he had always been into zeppelin and like, you know, big, awesome rock bands.
And that's kind of where he wanted to go. He wanted to take punk rock beyond these boundaries of punk rock, you know, and he wanted us to keep advancing in all respects, you know, technical and and just musical. And he didn't, he just, Jason never was at practice. He, he would just show up for the show basically. And, and we were all practicing like four or five times a week. And so it was kind of a thing.
And then bomber just, he was sick of buying symbols and sticks and he was sick of hauling drums around. And I think he always really wanted to be a guitar player or front man. And so he started, he basically said, I'm not playing drums. drums for RKL anymore. And then he started another band where he was singing. And then, so basically there was no RKL. And then that band kind of fizzled. I don't even know if they ever played, but eventually he asked me if I wanted to play guitar.
And so I started playing with them and that was Slang. And then we got Little Joe on bass. And so eventually, and then slang got signed epitaph and that's when we were started recording the reactivate record and then brett and bomber decided well let's just throw some rkl songs in there and you could you could sing them the way you want them to be sung and we'll call it an rkl record and it was like a huge mistake
yeah how do you feel about the reactivate record i
hate it it sounds horrible the performance is it just sounds like a a bad demo to me. I mean, but I just wish that we had never done it. I mean,
are you playing shows around that time as well? And like, what are the
reactions? Yeah, we went to Europe and, and actually that, that was the tour that, that will die on. And when it was, so we were like halfway through the tour and will didn't show up when it was time to, to leave and the next, we just had to leave. And then the next day we, or later that evening, we found out that he had passed on and then Bomber just said, that's it, I'm going home.
And we're like, well, we have all these shows and, and we already had Dave playing, you know, Dave was playing drums. I was on, me and Barry were on guitar and we had Joe on bass and we just called Jason and Jason flew out and we had like two weeks off. And Jason met us in Barcelona, and we went out to Mallorca, and Jason actually had to get off dope. So that was like we spent like five days there while he was detoxing, and then we actually played a show in Mallorca.
The only other punk band that had played there before us that was from the States was the Ramones.
Holy cow.
So we played with a band called Cerebros Exprimidos, I think, and it was a cool show. We didn't have any of our own gear, but it was fun. So then we came back and played a show in Barcelona. We actually might have played the first Barcelona show before we went to Mallorca, and then we did another one when we got back. And then we spent some time in Barcelona, and then we finished the rest of the tour with Jason on vocals, and we came back and wrote the Richest of Rags record.
Yeah, how was that, doing a record without Bomber? What was that like?
It was challenging. We had a lot to live up to, and I thought we did... Yeah, I mean, I missed his songwriting. He would come up with stuff that I never would have come up with, but... I'm pretty proud of that record. I think it came out really well.
No, I think it's a good record. It's wild that it's just a year apart from Reactivate. And Reactivate is kind of a hard listen. Riches and Rags is a good record.
Yeah. Reactivate was barely rehearsed. And Riches and Rags, we had already demoed all the songs. We'd already recorded all the songs like twice, I think. And We practice a lot. That has a lot to do with it.
It is interesting, though, because the Reactivate cover is so ill. And it's funny thinking about you being a Maiden fan. I think about that album, No Prayer for the Dying. That album cover is so good, and that record is terrible. It's like their first bad record. Kind of a weird tie-in. Anyway, so then RKL breaks up again, and you do the band The Other. How does that come about? But you get Bomber back, too. Why is the other not just RKO?
Because, okay, after Rich's Rags came out, we had a couple of good tours. And then I think we took a break or something, and I think Jason just got back into dope. And then... We did another Euro tour, and he had to bring his family with him, and it was just a nightmare, and everyone said, enough is enough. So we got home, and that was it, basically. And then Bomber had the other, and he had already had the other when Rich's The Rags came out with Rich Morin on guitar.
He's the other guitar player in King City with me.
now but um and rich is an amazing guitar player he uh my friends in this band osgood slaughter went to um guam and and rich was playing in some cover band there and they said we gotta we gotta steal this guy and get him off this island so they they took they took rich back to california and um he joined osgood slaughter and that band became monstrous they never got anywhere but they were they were really good and then so yeah um when rich quit the other because bomber was just hard to deal with
um bomber asked me if i wanted to play guitar and at the time bomber was actually being really positive and creative and so it was it was that record is one of my favorite things i've ever played on
Yeah, it's a cool record, and it's also kind of cool that Bomber and the drummer, Boz is all I know him as from the liner notes, but I like to have them kind of be together because they weren't together for a minute there in RKO. Right? Oh, no, no, no. Bomber did vocal. They're both together on
Reactivate. Boz didn't play on Reactivate. Okay. It was Dave. And then Jeff... R. Jouefsky played on two of the songs, that Insane song, and I forget what other songs he played on. Yeah, no, Boz, we discovered Boz because we used to rehearse at this studio in the Tenderloin of San Francisco. It was this disgusting place, and there's just... But it was down in this basement underneath this apartment building, and Boz was down there every day playing drums.
He actually auditioned for RKL while it was slang before at some point, and we ended up choosing Dave Rahn instead because... He was just more into punk rock, I think, at the time. I can't remember the reasons. But yeah, Boz was always a great drummer.
What is the pressure like to be a drummer and have Bomber not be the drummer, but he's watching you?
It's probably pretty hard.
Yeah. Chris, I know you're limited on time, so I'm going to try to speed through at the end here. But I've had most of the... the hardcore notables on here. And obviously I'm never going to be able to have bomber or Jason on. And sometimes like, you know, we had Kira from black flag on and, and she, she did such a good job of like describing Darby crash. And it's kind of weird in a way to have on like a big name and to ask them about someone else.
But because, you know, I wasn't there and you're someone that can describe them. Can you like describe what Jason was like? And also what bomber was like for the people that don't know.
It would take hours. Well, I
got, I got a point, but you can wrap.
Yeah. Jason was just a true leader. Everyone just followed him. Everyone wanted to be around him. He was just so charismatic. He was just like, and always funny. And I mean, unless he was dope sick, but for the most part, he was always hilarious and he's very creative and, But, yeah, mostly just hilarious. Smart guy. They were both pretty much geniuses. And Bomber was hysterical. Like, his sense of humor was ridiculous.
Bomber... I mean, one of Bomber's things that was kind of not a great thing, he used to just laugh at everybody's misfortune. You know, if you dropped your food, he would... That was like the funniest thing in the world. I don't know. If you talk to anybody that knew them, everybody has a million bomber stories, both hilarious and aggravating. Every time I'd get back to my guitar, it had a broken string and it was because of Bomber. He just did everything in the extreme.
Yeah. I think it's really rad that you end up in Lagwagon because you know how I was talking before about I think that Rock and Roll Nightmare is such an underrated influence on so many bands. Do they acknowledge that? That RKL was a huge influence?
Who?
Who?
the lag wagon guys?
I don't know if everyone does. It's hard to say. I think... I don't know. I don't know how Joey feels about RKL. He says that he was... that he appreciates us. I'm not sure. I mean, he was so into metal and technically we weren't quite... As far as the guitar playing, compared to some of the bands he was into. So I don't know if he ever acknowledged that we were influential, but he recognized that we were a good band.
Yeah, I got two last quick things for you, Chris. Because it is really interesting, right? You're saying that when you went on tour those first couple times, everyone's playing thrash. And you guys are so ripping your instruments, but you don't go that way. You're like the most technical punk band in 87 that doesn't go heavy metal. Why is that? Why do you not get sucked into that? You just stay ripping
punk. Well, Bomber hated that speed metal and this crossover stuff was stealing the energy from punk rock. Because the metalheads were the guys that kind of used to pick on us. you know, punk sucks, you go whip it, you know, and then, and then all of a sudden they're, you know, they're playing fast and they're like, Bomber always thought they were stealing our, our fire.
And so, you know, but I think Iron Maiden was a big exception because they were so melodic, you know, and they weren't afraid to play in major keys. And so they, they were truly like more of a punk band than, a lot of those metal bands, you know?
Yeah. They play the nice sounding notes. Um, yeah. Okay. So last thing you looked
like he was
in GVH. It's true. You guys both have mascots. There's a lot of parallels there. It's rad. Um, Chris, we can wrap on like what you currently do. Like, cause if, if people want to learn how to shred, they can get at you, right? You teach them how to shred over the internet.
I can try. Yeah.
But you
want to teach guitar lessons, um, I'm on Instagram at ChrisRestGuitar and Facebook at ChrisRestGuitar. And I teach Skype and Zoom guitar lessons in the evenings. And I build circuit boards and infrared camera equipment during the day.
So rad. But yeah, so get at him. And it's really him. That's how I wrote him. And he responded. It was awesome. Don't be shy, people. Learn how to shred from Chris. Have him teach you the whole record, Rock and Roll Nightmare. Good luck. Good luck. But Chris, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
Yeah, thank
¶ Trivia: Greg (Take Offense) vs Dan Sant
you.
In this corner, the challenger, fighting out of the hard corner, from Chula Vista, California, a full stack of hardcore fury, born to shred, it's Greg Offense Sirwonka! And his opponent, fighting out of the core corner, from parts unknown, weight unknown, reason he didn't pick minor threat in the straight edge Super 7, unknown. It is the reigning, defending, undisputed 185-mile South Trivia Champion of the World, Daniel. These questions are too easy. Sant!
Okay, this first question goes to Greg Offense. Before singing for Warzone, Rabies played drums in the seminal... New York hardcore band. Agnostic Front. Point to Greg. All right, let's go over to Daniel to possibly even it out. Okay, Dan. On the cover of the 1989 Judge LP, Bringing It Down, guitarist Porcel is seen playing a Gibson Les Paul. In 1955, new humbucker pickups replaced the previous P90s. What was the U.S. patent number for the new pickups?
479-324. Incorrect.
It was U.S. 289-6491-A. Damn it.
We didn't want to shoot that over to Greg for the steal? Come on. Greg might have known. No, that was a gag question.
Yeah, I was going to say that's a fucked up
question. All right, Dan.
Poor Sel wouldn't even fucking know what pickups it was in his left ball probably. Or someone wouldn't even know what
guitar was in his hand.
This is true. Zing! Dan, let's go to you for question number one. Youth of Today released their debut EP Can't Close My Eyes in 1985 on this record label.
Um... The first... Uh... We
got to take it to Greg for the steal. I mean,
maybe I can get a half a point. Isn't it fucking Kevin seconds label positive force or something?
Point to Greg with the steel. Oh, much respect. Now, Uber respect if you get this one. This is a Ben Edge hard question that was going to die on the vine on the list. But I was like, if someone's going to get it, it's going to be Greg. So don't feel bad if you don't. Who played guitar on the Suicidal Tennessee's 1983 self-titled LP?
Grant
Estes or Estes? We will take it for one point. Amazing. I'm a fucking nerd alright let's go okay Dan your second question what type of toy did Pennsylvania hardcore band Rancor mention in their song I won't take part from the flip the switch 7 inch on Youngblood records
besides their own besides their own name being Rancor which is a toy as well you know God, these are hard questions tonight or today or whenever. I don't want to ruin the... Don't ruin
the time of day, man. They don't know.
I know. Well, you'll probably yell at me after for it. Fuck, I
won't take part.
G.I. Joe. We go to Greg for the possible steal. No idea. Okay. Tougher than a Tonka truck. You can't run because you're out. Oh, yes. No points in that round, but we go to Greg for your third question. True or false? Sorry, Dan, what were you going to say?
I was just going to ask if you can hear that dinging because I fucking hate that my MacBook also – gets texted and I hate it and I don't know how to stop it. And I'm a grandpa. Good night.
I think you can just Google how to stop receiving texts on my Mac book and figure it out. Okay. Let's go to Greg for round number three. True or false in 2011, the movie final desk. Okay. Sorry. Let me say that again. True or false in the 2011 movie Final Destination 5, Olivia falls out of a window to her death at an eye surgery clinic. Also in 2011, Long Island hardcore band Backtrack releases their debut LP Darker Half on Reaper Records.
Yeah, that's true.
A point to Greg. Pitching a shutout. You go to Dan. I
bet we're having a true or false question.
Let me see if you're getting one. Nope, not this one we're on. But just imagine how easy the steal would have been if Greg got that wrong. True. Here we go. Dan, this band was fronted by John Macias and released their LP Patterns of Force in 1983 on Upstart Records.
This band was fronted by John Macias.
It's the guy that you're always talking about being so gnarly, right? Circle... God, what's the name?
Circle One. Point to Dan. Would have been an easy steal for Craig as they made one of his Super 7 lists, I believe. That is correct. 80-85, something like that?
Yeah, the Patterns of Forest, which I think is still criminally underrated and super slept on still.
I'm right. Circle One is the crew and the band that we were talking about on that pod, right? Where they were gnarly as fuck.
Yeah, the crew is the family and the band is Circle One. Oh, that's right.
I've never heard someone struggle so hard to answer a question and then get the question correct.
That's true. You really squeezed that one out, Daniel. That was
awesome. I almost said circle storm like as a mistake.
Yeah.
Because I knew
it was something circle. But you nailed it because you're the reigning, defending, undisputed champion. So what's up? Okay, we go back to Greg. That's right. Hype me up. Yeah, man. The 1988 side-by-side 7-inch features how many people on the front cover? Three. Point to Greg.
Well, technically, it could be just one, which is the LL Cool J image rendered differently. Incorrect.
The answer is three.
We'll accept three, and we don't have to have that dispute. All right. Back to Dan. I'm just clawing at anything here. Okay. Dan, which came first, the unbroken LP, Life, Love, Regret, Or the fast food chain Chipotle? Life Love Regret. We go to Greg for the possible steal.
You're fucking kidding me.
I
mean, wait, I guess Chipotle then, right?
A point to Greg. Chipotle came out in
1993. It was not a chain. It was not a chain in 1993. I want proof that it was a chain in 93. Not that there was one restaurant somewhere called Chipotle. Jesus Christ.
Yeah, that might have to go up to the booth,
dude. It is the booth, and he approved the question. Oh, God. That
is an interesting point you raised, though, because it isn't technically a chain until there's more than one, right? Yes.
That's true, but there were was another question related like that and i did skip it i didn't use it because of that reason like it was confusing like that i do believe the chain started in 1993 so i i we can we can we can dispute it and hash it out later but let's see if it comes down to a point because uh greg is kind of smashing dude oh of course greg's gonna win because you know don't don't concede yet bud But we are going to Greg for another possible point. Let's see here.
The first compilation on Victory Records was called what? Oh,
God damn it. Isn't it? It's like something the hardest, right? Something hard. Like I know they did like a series of them, but I'm not going to get the specific name. I know it's like possibly like the hardest of the whatever. Something hard, but I could be off. We go to Daniel for the possible steal.
Can you repeat the question? The first compilation on Victory Records was called what?
What? My mind is blank.
Oh my god. Was it called None of You Are Gonna Get Paid? Fuck. Back
then, you might have gotten a box of records. Only the strong. A point to Daniel. Fuck,
yeah. God damn it.
And
can I also just interject here? From the Chipotle Wikipedia, the second store was opened near the University of... denver in 1995
god damn it all right i think that uh we should probably give dan his point back there huh
damn
here we go here we go point from greg and put it in the dan column i stand corrected and it's a 185 trivia first respect daniel okay thank you you know i can admit when i'm wrong how about that okay dan we go to you round five How many members of the Ramones are wearing sunglasses on the cover of their LP Rocket to Russia?
Well, Tommy and Joey definitely are. Now is Didi and Johnny. I'm going to say two.
Yeah, but I'm a little worried now because Daniel is Googling around and shit. You're googling Chipotle. How fast would
I have googled who is wearing sunglasses on the cover of Rocket to
Russia? All you had to do is type in Rocket to Russia and look at the picture. Would it have taken two seconds? Two seconds when you're
googling
the history of
Chipotle. Listen to this. There's an Adidas shoebox ten feet away. I'm going to toss my phone towards it. Listen. Did you hear that?
Yeah, you probably Googled and downloaded Tossing Phone MP3.
Sounds like some Russian collusion going
on, dude. You got that one point back, Dan, but now this whole potential victory is suspect.
I'm an excellent Foley artist. I'm walking down the stairs now.
But yes, the answer was two members of the Ramones are wearing sunglasses on the cover. Was I right
with which ones? Because then that could also prove that I didn't look it up if I was wrong about who was wearing the
sunglasses. Ben can look it up during the next question. Let's move on. Greg, your question number six. 25 to Life has a song called... loyal to da grave d a or d all of the above
oh man um oh i want to say fuck this is like We can't do like a who wants to be a millionaire. There
is no phone a friend on 185 Trivia, my friend. What if you called Rick to life? That should be allowed. That should be allowed. If you have Rick to life's number,
you can call him. I'm going to say loyal to the with the
T-H-A. So Greg is going B. We shoot it to Dan for the potential steal. 25 to Life has a song called A, Loyal to the Grave. B, the incorrect answer, Loyal to T-H-A Grave. C, potentially a right answer, Loyal to the Grave. Or D, also a potential correct answer. All of, well, that one can't be right either because we know B is incorrect. Dan, which one is it? C, Loyal to the Grave. Incorrect. 25 to Life spelled the song Loyal to the Grave correctly. Wow.
The answer is A. That's a tough one because you just assume that, you know, it's just going to be spelled with the truth, you know, and I don't know. I mean, that's a hard one. Rick must not have written
that song. Okay, Dan, we go to you for your sixth question. The cover of the 1995 compilation Punk Bites features a kid on the front with a mohawk. What color is said mohawk?
Oh God, it's either blue or green. I remember that. Blue.
Blue. We go to Greg for the potential steal onto a handful of clues. Agreed. A point to Greg. Why did you do that, Dan? All right. Let's go to Greg for his final question. What type of guitar was famously used by Greg Ginn of Black Flag, Mike Meter of Blast, and Graham Kleiss of Annihilation Time. Oh, goddammit. There's a hint from Bedge. It's a person's name. That's such a funny hint because aren't most guitarists people's names? No. Stratocaster's not a person's name.
Tell that to Jack Stratocaster, buddy.
Goddammit. You know, like, it's those clear ones.
Ugh. Ugh.
god damn it this sucks i mean i'm gonna be fucking uh i'm gonna say it's a fuck it's i think it's an ibanez but i feel like i'm wrong here and i'm spacing on the model so
we go to dan for the potential steal what type of guitar was famously used by greg gin of black flag mike neater of blast and graham kleiss of annihilation time
I think I know it because of... Google? No. Because Justin Pearson had a base version. Am I looking for the name of the person? Or am I looking for the... Because you said it was a name. Or am I looking for the manufacturer? It is a person's first and last name. You need the person's first and last name to get that. Oh, okay. I thought it was a... It was by Ampeg is who makes it, but I don't know. I don't know the name. Stan Armstrong.
Yeah, I knew it started with an
A. I thought it might have been even older than that because didn't someone in Black Sabbath do that back in the day
too? Tony Iommi?
The question was not the
only three people that ever played this guitar were these people. Just three hints, dude. Is the Dan Armstrong
made by Ampeg? Am I right there? No, not technically. It ended up being made by Ampeg, but originally it was just Dan Armstrong. That's why we wanted the person's name and not the brand because it depends on the year that you bought the guitar, if it was Ampeg or not. I think Greg might have not known that because Dan Armstrongs don't have a whammy bar. You
know, I know because they're like acrylic. They're like super heavy, right? Yeah, they're like totally clear.
They're heavier than wood or at least the base that I've seen is heavier than wood.
Okay, Dan, let's go to you for your final question, number seven. A member of Billingsgate is named after this rodent. squirrel a point to dan okay ben let's go to you for the final tally
well we have returning champion daniel sant with five correct answers and newcomer greg offense with six correct answers you have toppled the champion I know.
How about that?
Dan, how does that feel? I got one, though, because I feel the Mohawk question, because I'm approaching this like Dan and I are World War I fighter pilots. I don't think it's an honorable point for me, because I was just like, well, of course it's going to be green. He threw out blue and green.
He could have also been wrong about green. You know what I mean? Either blue or green and then been wrong about both of those.
And as you are the Red Baron chasing my honorable British RAF Spitfire, I will say that maybe I made a wrong turn and you exploited it and took me down fair and square. Yeah.
Yeah, especially because Daniel's Googling everything, starting with the Chipotle question. All right, Greg, great job.
Side A versus Side B.
All right, we got Dan Sant, Ben Edge, and Posse Chris. All right, mouthpiece, Face Tomorrow. New Age Records, 1995. A request from Ben. And Ben, let's go to you.
Um... uh this record's great and when it came out it was in 95 and there wasn't that much fast hardcore happening it was really a kind of a metal dominated scene at least in the straight edge scene that's the way things were so i listened to the shit out of this record when i when i first got it and i still love it um i know the song with this regret was written by tim after getting in an argument with his girlfriend who is now his wife and it's kind of like an intro for the whole record,
because it starts out with that slow kind of build. And then you get that fast payoff at the end of the song. And then Face Tomorrow is like, along with Body Bag by Rain On The Parade, is kind of like the fuck metal 90s hardcore kid anthem. And I love that lyric. You can change the face, but you can't touch what's in my heart. You can change the sound, but you can't tear this apart. So when this came out, I was like, fuck, yeah, there are actually other people who feel the same way as me.
There are only four of them and they all happen to be in a band together. But hey, it's better than nobody. The guitar outro of that song totally reminds me of the guitar intro for Pretty Vacant by the Sex Pistols. which is probably a coincidence. I don't really see these guys as being like huge Sex Pistols fans, but you never know. Everyone is. I would hope everyone is, but in reality, maybe that's not the case.
I would lean that they would be because, Ben, I think someone on the pod, it might have actually been you, right? Like you said, when Mouthpiece came out, they covered fucking Bloodstains.
They covered Bloodstains by Agent Orange. Right. So
if you like Agent Orange and that song, why wouldn't you like the Sex Pistols?
Oh, yeah. I mean, it stands to reason. Yeah, but you never know. People get into punk and hardcore in all kinds of wacky ways. I know Tim got into hardcore from Thrasher Magazine with those skate rock comps. And I think the first hardcore record he ever owned was Septic Death, which is like... the most extreme shit like ever, like, Oh my God, like that's your first impression of this music. Like, Holy shit.
Um, and then when you flip it over side B opens with cinder, which is this great dag nasty ish mid tempo song. And they, and mouthpiece doesn't have any other songs in this style. And it kind of makes me wish if they had stuck around for another, uh, EP or so just to, just to pull off a couple more, like one or two more songs like this. Um, And then Left of You is this cool, slow building thing towards the end of the record.
And as much as I love the song Face Tomorrow, I got to go side B because Cinder is on it.
Yeah, this record is cool. The lyrics are great. He does a great job with lyrics. And his voice is great. With This Regret, it's a great buildup. And it builds and builds, and then the payoff at the end, Ben said it was a fast payoff, but it's actually just mid-tempo. And I think this is the only time in my life that I've ever been begging for that fast mouthpiece beat. It's like, oh, I just wish they hit it right there for 15 seconds.
It would have been the illest thing ever, but they went to a mid-tempo beat. But I get it, because in the sequencing of this record, they start off Face Tomorrow fast. So I guess it goes from slow... to mid tempo to fast. So that kind of makes sense. Face tomorrow. It does something that Tim does really great, which is like the call and answer breakdown. It's kind of like a, a preview of like what he would master doing in hands tied.
Cinder, some melodic song on the record, his voice when it comes in, it sounds fucking perfect. And then left of you is pretty much the birth of sincere core is what I get off it. This one's hard. I think that, yeah, Cinder's the standout. It sounds like nothing else they ever did. And I'm taking side B on the strength of Cinder. And Dan, let's go to you.
Well, I'm in the same boat as Ben.
When this came out, it was such a, I won't say breath of fresh air, but such an amazing kind of star in the sky for what hardcore was at the time i love a lot of the metal stuff that was going on but i also love this and searched out this and also you know i was a a young young edgeman just loving that too and um i i always took the lyrics to um face tomorrow as being kind of what Ben says as you know like body bag long hairs type thing but also about straight edge and about the things that we
were going through at the time with a lot of people doing violence in the name of straight edge and a lot of people in Salt Lake City and places like that really becoming very extreme with it and then it being shown in the national media and people actually learning about what straight edge was in only a negative connotation and i i um i took that also the lyrics lyric theme in regards to that as well like you know you can you can say it's this and dress it up like this and do this but you can't
tell me what it is to me you know and so i really love that song and you know seeing them live uh and the face tomorrow call and response parts that you're talking about um It's a really awesome song live. But Cinder, the minute I heard it, you know, like I always envision like, you know, you're an A&R, someone in the 50s and, you know, you're getting all these tapes or records like submitted to you and you're listening to something. Oh, yeah, it's like that. Yeah, it's like that.
And then hold on.
stop let me listen to that you know cinder is like that it like stops you in your tracks it's uh very different super catchy super like the minute you've heard that song once you can that riff is in your head forever like you can recall it you know so oh god that being said though i think with this regret beats left of you so I'm doing an about face on my pick that I've written down, and Cinder is such a crusher and so amazing that it would be, but I'm going two songs against 1.5.
It's a really great 7-inch. I recommend everyone get it. But with Risk Regret, with the full 90s sound of the build, so cool. Face Tomorrow, lyrically and musically and... participation driven, I'm going side A. All right.
And
Chris, let's go to you.
I think we, we all kind of had a similar experience with this band where, and we've talked about it ad nauseum on this podcast, past episodes, but I mean, mouthpiece is such an instrumental band for me from a perspective of just like my worldview of hardcore and what hardcore is and can be. Um, you know, like Dan, I loved all the metal stuff too. Uh, but what really spoke to me was the fast, you know, the fast hardcore.
Um, and when I saw mouthpiece play, it was, uh, it was a pivotal moment in my life, uh, as cheesy as that sounds, but certainly from the perspective of my view of what, what I love most about hardcore. Um, it's funny. Ben mentioned that it was kind of an oasis of fast hardcores because it's not that fast of a record overall. There's fast parts, but there's a lot of mid-tempo. But still, it's not just about the speed. It's about the overall package. This is my favorite mouthpiece release.
The opening track is probably the weakest, in my opinion. Not a bad song, but I just like the other three a lot better. Face Tomorrow was an awesome song. Super catchy, good pacing. It has all the sing-alongs. The part that Ben mentioned about you can change the face, but you can't touch what's in my heart. I love how he starts that really soft. It's not quite a whisper, but it's a really laid-back talk.
And then once he gets through the first time... you know, the drums kick up and the tempo or not the tempo, but like the, the overall like wall of sound kicks up and he does that. I said, you can check. And then it goes from this crescendo to like just a switch being flipped into like full on, you know, dog pile sing along.
And it's just a really cool, cool ending to the song cinder another really strong song one of the best mouthpiece songs um overall it has uh just a a vibe of nostalgia like i don't know what it is about it but it the feel of it it just kind of makes me think about like reminiscing um and then like face tomorrow and left of you are my two standout tracks of for this record um Like I said, I love Cinder, but I just...
Face Tomorrow and Left of You are the two songs that are just a step above for me and what I like about Mouthpiece. Left of You... Left of You is one of the rare hardcore songs where the verse is actually more catchy and more sing-along than the chorus. And the chorus is certainly 100% sing-alongable. But when the verse comes in... just from the start. What it means and what it meant. You don't have to wait for the chorus for the dogpiles. The second it kicks in, you're already there.
I don't think there is a chorus. It's like a slight variation of the verse, I believe.
I'd say this whole seven-inch is dogpile-worthy on all four songs.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the previous mouth, what I really like about this record compared to the previous mouthpiece releases, which are awesome as well, but this, this record has a lot more urgency and, and, and like those singalongs. And I know there's just something a little bit more driving and urgent and, and I don't know, uplifting, but yeah, So I'm taking side B primarily because both sides have two of my two favorite mouthpiece songs and Left of You and Face Tomorrow.
And I just like Cinder a lot more than With This Regret. But overall, awesome record, super important band. Respect.
There's one other thing I wanted to mention about mouthpiece is if you listen to the song Written Word by Government Issue, I believe that's where Cinder is actually more like that than like a Dag Nasty song. And if you open up the insert, one of them is wearing a government issue shirt. It's like, bam, nailed it. And then the other thing is, if you listen to the song Another Wrong by Dag Nasty, Face Tomorrow starts out the same way, hitting that beat.
And I don't think that's a coincidence either. So they're pulling from all these awesome influences that by 95 might have been kind of forgotten in the straight edge scene. And Tim has such this, his voice has such great personality to it. It's like almost snotty, but it's still like youth crew. It's just like that perfect, just like awesome voice.
Yeah.
Yeah, and he does such a good job of having a lot of dynamic in his voice, of going like the soft to the yelling or the shouting. If this was on Only the Strong, he would have been whispering. But because it's not Only the Strong, he doesn't go full whisper. What's up with that? Okay, Dan Sant selection. We're going to do The Clash. And it's White Man in Hammersmith. Did I say that right? Palais. Palais. And B-side The Prisoner. So just like Trail of Lies, it's song versus song.
Side A versus side B. Daniel, let's go to you.
Yeah, I definitely wanted to get one on that is just like, like you say, A versus B. The true essence of what A versus B is. And, you know, there's many good two-song records out there. We've done a few in the past, Weirdos, etc. The thing about... So as we were kind of coming together before we hit record, Ben had said that he'd done some research on this song. I haven't, but I've listened to this song my whole life. So I'm kind of going to...
No, I'm not saying that you haven't, but you said you did some research lyrically, which is going to be interesting because I'm going to just... tackle it with what i think the song is about and then you can chime in and tell me you know from your research if i hit any of it or if i'm just in my own all right i'll terry chime in all right or tory crimes in yeah all right well i i mean side a white man in hammersmith palais is a signature clash song for the simple fact that it doesn't sound like
too many others. Yeah. They take on reggae a few times, um, but usually covering like reggae artists of the time or, you know, or blue eyed soul reggae, like, uh, police and thieves doing, um, The Equals, which is not Blue-Eyed Soul, but you know what I mean. They reference that. Police and Thieves is actually Junior Mervyn. I didn't mean Police and Thieves. I meant Police on My Back. Yeah, Junior Mervyn is the one that they have done, like a quite traditional reggae take.
But what I feel about this song is it's referencing the Windrush generation and the reggae... blue beat nights that would happen. And because Paul Simon and Joe Strummer were huge, or actually everyone in the class were huge reggae fans. I mean, I think it was probably pretty hard around that time of being around, you know, post 69 with all the music that came from Jamaica to ignore it in youth culture. The Windrush was the huge thing.
ocean liner that brought many, many, many Jamaican immigrants or West Indian in general from different islands to into England to, to work, uh, to find jobs and better their lives.
And this, this song kind of really tackles that for the, through talking about the music that was brought and, um, basically, um, saying that you know they've listened to some of these really rebel-esque seven inches through like the spirit of 69 and and all of these reggae songs and then um and then kind of seeing them live and seeing it's a bit more showmanship and lack of like real heart even though i don't agree because Delroy Wilson the cool operator is one of the best songs of all time but
what I think the song does that's really incredible is it talks about how shit is fucked up for everyone for all the working class and that they need to see that they're the same because it notes that punks go and enjoy this culture and rub elbows with and pick up things from black youth.
But then as they grow up, they become conservative and listen to the likes of Enoch Powell, et cetera, and turn around and change their vote to vote against doing things for these working class people that are exactly the same as them simply because of the color of their own skin. And I think it's really an amazing lyrical song, an amazing sound song. And I have to just say that it's one of the best songs ever written, in my opinion. The B-side, The Prisoner, is sung by Mick Jones.
And funnily enough, normally I love all the Mick Jones songs written Somewhat, maybe because they're a little bit rarer, like a nice diamond or jewel. I like them usually more than the Joe songs. But in this 7-inch, The Prisoner is a great, catchy, full-on punk tune sang by Mick. But the Joe Strummer-led reggae-influenced and referencing anthem of White Man in Hammersmith Palais is the winner for me.
Ben, let's go to you.
Yeah, one of the lyrics on the A side is, if Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway. And I thought about that lyric almost every day that Trump was president, because I'd think to myself, the clash was right. Here it is. It's happening right now. He's saying people suck up to power no matter how egregious the person holding the power is. Oh, famous person. I'm going to bend over backwards because he's the president. It's like he's a fucking Nazi. Are you crazy?
The basis of the song... which Dan touched on is Joe Strummer going to a reggae show and being disappointed that the performers didn't have anything political to say. So the equivalent of that would be like, I go to some rap show, I go to some hip hop club and I'm bummed that none of that. And I've been listening to public enemy all my life. And I go to this hip hop club and I'm like, what? These rappers aren't saying anything political. Like, come on, what about the plight of the black man?
And it's like, it's really not my place to, It's not my place to say what black dudes should be singing about. But then he gets broad and he starts talking about bigger political issues. Wealth distribution, which we are still feeling today. Yeah, and that'll never go away. And I think it's just one of the most powerful songs ever written. And it seamlessly mixes reggae with rock. But it's not like, here's the rock part. Now here's the reggae part. It's not that obvious. It's very...
It's in the production a lot, too, with the echoey parts and, like, really dubbing out some of the backups and stuff on the whoa, whoa, whoa parts and stuff. You know?
Yeah.
Looking for fun. Like, it gets really dubby near the end.
Right. Yeah. It always stood out to me. And The Clash is one of my favorite bands. So there's a lot of Clash songs. So it means a lot for, you know, one of the best bands.
Because you're such a, you know, a clash head too. Do you think it's a jam diss on where he's talking about them, new groups in Burton suits? Yep, yep, I do. But the jam is quite political, I've always thought.
Actually, I did look that up. And so what's the suit brand that they reference in this? Burton, which is a high street shop. Right, okay. So they're... They actually were asked about that. Like, are you making fun of the jam? Because the jam was huge. This is 1978. They were probably the other biggest band in England at the time. And they said, no, it was major labels starting to sign power pop bands. Trying to say it's
punk. Yeah. Wearing a lot of suits. Because the line turning rebellion into money comes right after it. And then... yeah that's like fake punks i suppose
and by the way turning rebellion into money becomes the name of a conflict album later on which i i think of that as part of the peace punk tradition of kind of dissing the sex pistols in the clash like endlessly um but then okay b-side you have the prisoner sung by mick jones and i'm not sure but i think he's comparing the draw everyday life of british working people to that of being a prisoner, would you agree? Okay.
Yeah,
yeah. Okay, now here's the fun story that I found out. I heard this a long time ago, but I got my facts right preparing for this. So The Clash played this show in Glasgow on July 4th, 1978. With suicide? I don't know who it's with, but the bouncers are beating the shit out of the kids. Joe Strummer is screaming for the bouncers to stop doing that.
And then after the show, Joe Strummer and Paul Simonon walk into the back of the venue and Joe Strummer's pissed off about it all happening and he breaks a bottle and immediately two plainclothes cops arrest Joe Strummer. They're waiting for him. And then Simonon gets in there. They arrest him too. They go to jail for That night and all these Clash fans that also got arrested from the show are there in the jail. Singing this, yeah. And they're all singing The Prisoner.
It's like, fuck, dude, that almost makes me want to go to jail. To be like, they're singing my song. It
is that same gig because Suicide Open and someone throws an axe at Suicide from the crowd. Jesus Christ. An axe.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad that What's-His-Name didn't get split in half. I can't think of the suicide guy's name. Alan
Vega. Alan Vega,
Martin Reff. Prisoner is a great song, but White Man and Hammersmith Palais is an all-time classic A-plus song, so side A for me as well.
Chris, let's go to you.
As the second smartest person on this podcast and the second most well-dressed, I I appreciated that educational session. Thank you guys. I didn't know a lot of that context about what the song was out. I've never really, what either of these songs are out, I've never really gone too deep on the lyrics, but both great songs. I think Prisoner, Prisoner is, as Dan mentioned, it's more of a straightforward punk song.
And I think that if I was still 16 year old, punk kid and listening to this for the first time, like I would go with prisoner on this one, but my, however old I am now, uh, I, I, I love white man in, uh, it's just such a, such a great song, like such a good laid back vibe. Uh, and it's been touched on already by Dan and Ben, but you know, it's a reggae song that doesn't feel like a reggae song. Um, I mean, even the reggae parts, it doesn't feel like a reggae, like the reggae parts. I don't know.
It's just such a cool, catchy, pretty punk song. I'm going side A.
All right. Any guesses on what way you think I'm going to go, Dan or Ben?
I think you're going side B.
Yeah. Get the fuck out of here, of course. Am I going to take a great, catchy punk song with great vocals, and catchy little guitar hooks, or am I going to take a four-minute song that's not Iron Maiden? I'm going side B all day long. Get the fuck out of here. Mark it a B for me, ref. And yeah, killer.