1. Joe Rivas (Burning Dog)

This first interview took place on March 26th, 2019. It's with my friend Joe Rivas, and Joe's a dude of one generation older than me. myself and my friends, and he was always one of those older dudes that was... I mean, shit, he wasn't old at the time. He was probably mid-20s.

But he was one of the dudes that was really nice and welcoming, and when you're a kid coming into something as intimidating as hardcore and punk rock, that outstretched hand really means a lot, and it stays with you, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to do Joe early, because it's so important.

Now, Joe played in... punk band called Burning Dog in the early 90s that was super awesome and there was a ton of bands in the Oxnard area in the early mid 90s and carrying on of course they were great and didn't get the representation they needed Burning Dog put out a 7 inch and then also a CD both are awesome the 7 inch was songs off of the couple demos that they did which were really awesome and some of my favorite stuff to listen to when I was like a freshman in high school.

Joe also roadied along and worked for the bands No Motive and Good Riddance. And yeah, he never dropped out of punk or hardcore. He's a lifer. And he does a band now called Out of Trust, which is based out of the Oxnard Ventura area and has lots of scene veterans from the same era generation as him. And that's it. All righty, here we are with Joe Rivas. Joe is a super important person for people my generation of Oxnard and Narcourt kids.

Often the go-between peacemaker, all-around good dude that befriended all of us when we were young and no one necessarily believed in us, so... I would say, you know, top three, maybe top one most important person for my generation. So we're going to start this off with him. And no pressure at all, Joe. But I'm hoping you can give me the definitive history of Nardcore. How did it start? How did it start? Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't there in the beginning. What did you pop around?

So we were talking earlier today, and you talked about meeting John from The Repute in 1981. 81, yeah. I met John at the beach, at Port Warnaby Beach, on the pier. 81, it was my birthday. He told me I was a cool kid. I thought that was cool.

Because he had funky hair, and, you know, he was a surfer dude, and... whatever, um, and then, uh, I didn't get to really know him until much later, uh, 88 or so, I guess that's not much later, but, um, that's when we became friends, because he was good friends with my brother, Davi, um, they were jamming together, sort of, like, after post, um, transitions time, so, they, uh, John and my brother played bass in many bands back then. And I was just a roadie. Yeah. In 88, you were a roadie?

I was a roadie for any band my brother was in. Yeah, so tell us some of those bands. Disordered Youth, which was the first band that he was in, which was a Wainimi band, Wainimi Oxnardish band.

Back then, there was still sort of a little bit of a definition between... towns but I became fast friends with the drummer named Steve Busher and so then I just became his roadie so I would go with him in his car his truck later on when he got a truck and set up his drums wherever they played and all that stuff and we went all over SoCal to do shows and stuff yeah and then I didn't you know I had always played guitar my dad started us when we were little kids and But I just didn't have a desire

to be in a band myself until... It was going to be late 88 when a friend of ours, John Lowry, was in this scene in this band called Dignity. And he died in a diving accident in the harbor, Jones Harbor. Jesus, well tell the story. I don't know much of what happened. It was like his air mixture... Oh, diving. Diving. Not like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Diving under the water, not into the water.

Yeah. Yeah. And his air mixture got messed up, and he passed out on the bottom of the harbor, and he died. So the band asked me if I would play the show with them, because they knew that I played, and I was friends with everybody. And so I said, yeah, sure, why not? And... So I learned what songs that they had, and we did a couple covers, like Stepping Stone. I think everybody's at one time has covered that song or not in the NARD.

And then, yeah, then I was hooked and played my first show in December of 88. And that was Dignity, which just basically became... burning dog much, you know, four or five years later after some members dropped out and others were added with an in-between name of Topless Green Onions. Yeah, we got that name off a cardboard box in my dad's garage where we were practicing. We were trying to think of a name and our drummer, Keebler, at that time said, hey, how about Topless Green Onions?

It says it on that box right there. And Like, okay, you know, Red Hot Chili Peppers were big at the time, so that fit. Sure. So let's talk a little bit about the, what do you call the Burning Dog and the Clutch Fist and all that, second wave in hardcore? I would say second wave. Yeah, I mean, for the bands themselves, we were certainly the second wave. Maybe we were really kind of third wave. We'll go with second. Let's talk about the importance of those bands in our area.

Yeah. I don't know that I could speak to how important we were. They were very important to us. I mean, we're very lucky as younger kids to have good local bands, right? We, Burning Dog, Clinch Fist, FAY, Stale Fish, DY as well, Disordered Youth.

It's hard for me to talk about that because it's not... I've always not tried to take any credit for any of that stuff. I was just doing what felt good. Playing shows and backyard parties, especially in the early 90s, that's pretty much all there was. There were very few venues to play at and not a whole lot of scene, if you will.

they had carried on because because of the late 80s and all the fights and nazi shit that was going on and all that stuff and then um the transition from that into what the you know the mid to late 90s provided so what was the catalyst though for all those bands being around kind of at the same time was it just that naturally you got to the age that you do bands and And all these people ended up being the same age at the same time? Yeah, I mean, we're all pretty close.

Well, those bands that I mentioned, you know, we're all pretty close to the same age. In fact, most of us are part of the same crew, especially, you know, Burning Dog and Clinch Fist. You know, but even just a little bit later with Dick Circus, because John Carrar, you know, I grew up with Tom Edwards. the singer from Dick's Circus, and John was part of the Beach crew, the YME crew, and then branched off and became John, who he is now. But he was part of all of that in the beginning.

I guess I got John by five years or so. I think he's your... We'll say Mr. 23rd is your generation, but... I'm going to put Dix or Kusunfui in that just slightly in between. Definitely. Like the tail end of our, you know, not our heyday, but our first go at it. You know, Numskull was doing shows already, but there was, again, with Eddie, finding venues was always difficult, especially in Oxnard. Random stuff, the Tapatio and the El Fiesta on Oxnard Boulevard, both of those places.

So let's talk about the importance of the localism comp, because it documented these bands. Yeah, so Fred Hammer put together that comp. He had been doing the It's Alive fanzine for years. I don't know, maybe 10 years prior to that, I think. I'm going to guess about 10 years. And then he started doing his cut sheets, the localism, the three-page booklet, four-page thing that he was doing for a while there.

And then that led into the localism comp because there was all this energy that was going on in a lot of active bands.

And it was more of a community organized thing. Yeah, because there was Hawaiian bands and all kinds of stuff that played there. But... Gilman got too punk for themselves. Sure. You know, the whole 924 thing and, you know, the great No Motive song about that. We don't talk about that song. Okay, okay. Maybe not so great. But, yeah, so... But it was important to get those songs down because one of the shames is that these bands didn't do records. And unfortunately, even CD, because...

One of my favorite hardcore bands from the 90s is a band called Powerhouse, and their best record only came out on CD, and it's kind of lost to history. You don't hear people talking about it, and it's so important to do vinyl releases. And Burning Dog, you did a 7-inch. We did the 7-inch. It's like the precursor to the CD, but everyone else didn't really put out records, except for Fooey, No Motive, and a lot of the Ventura bands. But as far as the... The Oxnard Band. The Oxnard Band.

No, I mean, Clench Fist did a demo, a six-song demo, which was phenomenal, but you never... Yeah. You know. And why not take the next step? Yeah, well, you know, the opportunity for... partying was, yeah, sure. Was, you know, dominated a lot of our lives. I mean, I, me, me included, especially back then, um, until I had my bottom and, you know, I got clean in 96. I've been straight edge since, but, um, the, uh, There was a lot of party, and so there was not a lot of motivation. We were in bands.

Well, not we. A lot of people were in bands just to play parties to have access to drugs or beer or girls. Or to have fun and rage, right? Yeah. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. If music was as fun, then what's the point? But, yeah, exactly. But that's why a lot of that was never captured. Because to capture that stuff, it means that there had to be somebody driving the band to go record, and then somebody driving the band to do the next step of trying to press something.

With Burning Dog, we did all those demos. We made demo tapes. Clinchfist sort of did. We sent it away for professional duplication. where clench fist was just you know

And they sound, I mean, they don't sound great because they're copies of copies or the tape has degraded to the point by the time I finally digitized it that it just, you know, it's warped. It's bad, you know. Yeah. You can't bake cassette tapes like you can reel-a-reels. Right. So... It's just that these were all very... Very good, legit bands. And they're kind of lost to history. Yeah. Except for the localism comp, where most of the bands get one song, right? Right. So... That's all.

I think all the bands got... Maybe Ill Repute got two songs. Yeah. And that version of Ill Repute there, that mid-90s Ill Repute. That's a totally different version of Ill Repute. Yeah. And one of my favorite bands ever is the Tony singing. He has one of my favorite voices. That bleed... The Bleed record is amazing. The Bleed record is so good. The And Now record that I played on with Forrest, it was a whole lot of fun. I just don't know how well received that ever was.

Well, Bleed was an amazing record because, kind of like how I talked about that Powerhouse band before, they had this unique sound, this New York hardcore sound, and the dude was doing the punk rock cheat beat. But he was doing the no effects. And so, like, you can't replicate that sound because no one is psycho enough to do it. And it worked for that band, right? And the same thing with Bleed is, like, you have Tony who has this, like, awesome, soulful gutter voice. Yeah, yeah.

Mixed with, like, Nashaya who's playing, like, the most, like... Bubblegum New School octave leads. Yeah, yeah. You know? And you have like the, like the, the

It was a Christian rock band. And then... And then... I can't remember the punk band that played with them. Uh... Let's jump to what you remember. Yeah. What's the first band you remember singing? The first show I remember, it was Illipute. Yeah, at the community center. And what year do you think that was? I don't know, 86, 87? So how old were they in 86 or 87? Old? Yeah. What Happens Next comes out in 1984, which is their classic. And you're talking about seeing them two years later.

So are they dabbling in the stuff that got caught on transition? Yeah, they caught. That's a good summation there. It was sort of in between because they had... I mean, the band's never, ever, ever broken up. They just stopped playing for a time. And then somebody asked them to play a show, and, like, you know, everyone's in town. You know, FANF's not in Fiji surfing or whatever. So then they all just make it happen. Carl was still playing with them then.

Yeah, the community center, let's see, was a power line... I think it was Powerline. I think that was the production company that was going on then that was putting on all the shows at Oxnard Community Center. So there was a slew of them from 84 to 87 when there was like a massive fight and... Some bad blood between Dr. No and Aggression. Shit talking from stage and that kind of stuff. And then shows just stopped there. So how many kids were there at the show, you think? Probably about five.

That's crazy. So this is raging. Somewhere around there. This is not in the main hall. This is in the side, the flat floor. Sure, but it's 500 kids at a punk rock show in 1986. Yeah. When... I mean, it seemed like that many to me. It could be less than that, but it certainly felt like that. I was terrified. Sure. You know? So you shouldn't be when you start going to shows, right? Yeah. You know? I mean, it's a scary thing.

You know, you don't have the protection of your parents, although you don't want the protection of your parents because you're rebelling, and I'm not that... I don't need you. Fuck you. I can do my own thing. And then, you know, you have that. But that's also when you... grow these bonds with your, with your friends that you know that, that the guy standing next to you, your friend is going to, well, you hope that he's going to be there for you. You know, sometimes that's not the case. And they

Well, I mean, I knew the songs, like, because we would play, we would, like, lip sync in the garage, like me and, like, our crew in the early 80s, like, you know, having... you know, we were in the Boy Scouts together, so we would all do this, like, fake band, you know, because we didn't have amps, so we couldn't, you know, play, and nobody had an acoustic guitar, or an electric guitar, for that matter, at that time.

So, you know, so we just had sticks and, you know, brooms and, you know, pretended we were singing these songs. So I knew a bunch of the songs, but, like, you know, seeing American Girl, seeing these guys that I know live somewhere around me, I think that's probably the most striking thing, especially for hardcore in general, but that you know that these guys are... They're dudes.

They're just dudes that are from your neighborhood or the next street over or several blocks over or whatever, but they're close enough that you can do that. You can attain... you can do the same thing that they're doing. You just have to have some motivation and drive and learn how to play. You knew that you wanted to do bands if you knew before you saw them. Yeah, I mean, I knew I wanted to... Be involved in music. To be involved in it, you know.

We became friends with Bob and Henry early on, 86, somewhere in there, from Aggression.

Bob was selling his pot, so... and then Henry was lived he lived basically catty corner or the backyards were catty corner with Forrest Forrest from from Clench Fist so he just his parents lived literally over the fence basically so you know there's these guys you know these already legends at that time sure you know and they just they just hang out you know yeah so We did our first show, and I say we, I wasn't playing in a band, but the first band that we were all sort of associated with was

B.S.O.D. We made a joke, it was Big Simone on drums, because our friend Pico would play drums on it, but it was Bad Sense of Direction was the name of the band. It was Rob Calvert singing... my brother playing bass, several different guitarists, but mainly it was Forrest, and then Pica playing drums. And we put together this party, I'm going to say this is early 87, in Pica's garage, and we invited our friends, Irony and Leviticus, to come over and play that from Ventura.

And then Henry showed up to the party, and everyone was like... you know super nervous and you know because bsod was playing you know they played rat race they you know they covered rat race you know aggression song and they like like like like like yeah after after the after the after they played you know they go up to henry like oh sorry we didn't know that was great you guys played it twice as fast as super henry was always like that Super posi.

But that's one of the things I wanted to ask you is your personality has always been very welcoming, right, to people you don't know. And was there someone that was like that to you, like in the 80s, that made you feel good? And you decided, like, I'm going to be that guy that went like... You know, the 90s is also different when you're coming around because it's like... post-punk breaking. So there was a lot of bullshit and riff-raff, right?

So I understand a little bit of, like, the attitude of, like, oh, these young kids are posers, like, this and that. Yeah. But you were all afraid. Well, everyone wanted to be Green Day, right? Sure. Offspring or something, yeah. Sure. But you were friendly to, like, newer kids that are just trying to figure everything out. Yeah, I guess, I mean, I've certainly had my share of being an asshole, which we can share that story later.

Yeah. But, yeah, like, you know, Fanef, Henry himself, and especially Tony, Tony Cortez, provided that feeling to me, specifically to me, that, you know, we're just guys, and come hang out with us, and let's make this all happen, and let's... Hey, you need some help with this? You guys need a guitar cable or an amp? You can borrow this? All that kind of stuff. And that's sort of how that just came to me. That's just kind of what I decided to do. That also came from my grandpa.

My grandpa played upright bass in all kinds of bands. Big band swing stuff. And when I would ride around with him as a kid, like, he knew everybody, you know? Like, I recognized that, that he... People didn't just say hi to him, just, you know, like, hey, what's up? Like, they wanted to talk to him. Like, they were excited that, hey, Bob, how are you? My grandpa's name is Bob. How are you, Bob? And they really... It was... It was genuine. He was very generous with his time.

I watched him make whoever he was talking to was the most important person. Period. There were no other distractions around. I guess I tried to model how I behave after that. That's not to say, like I said, I don't have asshole moments. Do you want to talk about that? No. I mean, it is... Tell your asshole story. It is what it is. Well, okay, yeah. The headphones? Sure. Yeah. So... You know, we... I don't think that was an asshole moment, though. I think it was. What year was that?

It was 1999. Was it that late? Okay. So in 99, I had the studio above the Ink House there in Ventura. We called it the Ghost Chamber, where... Roger and Armand basically learned how to do what they ended up doing these days, which is they're both phenomenal engineers and producers. They were already incredible talents, and they already had done a little bit of that, but together we had this space where we could do We could just focus on recording the whole band ourselves.

We had isolation and all that sort of stuff. Well, sort of isolation in that place. So we recorded In Control, and you guys were doing... Nartro, right? Nartro, right, yeah. Which is a lot of gang vocals. Gang vocals, right? And we only had so many headphones, and somebody broke the headphones... Or bent them out of shape. And, you know, I was tired. And, you know, that stuff costs money. And then when it gets fucked up, you're like, oh, fuck.

yeah so that wasn't a very proud moment yeah but it's understandable right at the end of a recording session everyone's pretty burnt out by the time you make it to gang vocals everyone's pretty burnt out right plus that was the first time that we were recording too not individually but as a band so we'd all recorded before right and hey at least you were giving some feedback unlike John Lyons right so do you like that one do you like that one Yeah, I guess so. Let's just move on.

Yeah. Thanks, John. Thanks for all your help there. Yeah. But that was, you know, there's moments dabbled in there like that that I, you know, I behave poorly. And I recognize it. You know, that doesn't make it any better for anybody. No, when that's someone snapping, that's someone not, that's not like you were, Genuinely being an asshole. That's just having a bad moment. There was only one band that I was ever always an asshole to. Who's that? I can't even think of their name.

What was the Christian punk band? I couldn't tell you. Officer Negative. It was really just Chad. Because he got all... He got all uppity... with me and I wasn't going to let that fly because he was fucking with some other band that was playing. And what? No, like trying to rush them or telling them they're not going to be able to play their set because he's running the show and he wasn't really running anything. But God was in charge. What's that? I thought God was in charge. And Jesus, yeah.

And the Holy Ghost. So I became the devil. And from that point forth, I've yet to talk to that guy again. Wow, Joe has an enemy. I wouldn't say he's an enemy. He's just worthless.

I'm not going to say all the time, but we're playing a lot locally and a little bit out of town. You know, Numbscope was booking us in San Luis Obispo and Santa Cruz and San Francisco, and then we did some LA shows in Lancaster. But they...

At the time, Joey Lipke, who started the Edge Records, was reformed Stalag 13, dropping the 13, they were just Stalag, and it was really just Joey, who was one of, he wasn't the first drummer for Stalag 13, but he was the first drummer to record the Stalag 13, and Blake, Blake Cruz. So that was the only original members, and then they had these other L.A. guys, who were great musicians. Ended up being great guys, John Chuck and Rob, Rob and Nolte.

But Joey put out that record, and then he got Tony excited about playing it again. And so then Tony and Jim and he and Nishaya did the Bleed record. Ill Repute Bleed. Ill Repute Bleed. And got No Motive. Well, No Motive happened after we did the 7-inch record. Because we had already recorded that. No Motive hadn't played their first show yet. And they were going to play with us at the National Guard Armory in Ventura. And then Pat had his appendicitis, so they had to cancel that show.

Whoever else played, everybody played. Fixated, Jughead's Revenge was the headliner. Yeah. So Joey wanted to put out our 7-inch because we had this sort of buzz, if you will. Yeah, he wanted to get something out immediately. Yeah. Right? And so we just used... Well, we already have these 18 songs recorded, so just pick however many can fit on a 7-inch. What was there, six on there? Six, seven songs? Well, six and a half minutes, right?

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, with our song, that could be all 18 of them. Well, you could have done Skip Groove on one side. Right. And then a bunch of punk songs on the other. Right. Yeah, so we did the 7-inch, and then I went on tour... as the roadie when I was working for Good Rhythms. And then I came back and we finished. We actually recorded our full length, which just came out only on CD. And it was a train wreck.

By that time, No Motive had been signed, and Joey was putting all his focus on them and not on us.

It wasn't as received as well as it should have been, because I think there's some great songs on that. It was received well enough that that catapulted them into the next... They did their next stage when they got signed with Vagrant and did all that stuff. They didn't hit right then. They didn't hit right then. But Joey put us on the back burner and didn't spend any money on us. So where did you record? We recorded at this place called Technical Ecstasy in Chatsworth. Okay. It was very scary.

Crappy studio. We recorded ADAC, because that was the thing at the time. 16 track. And then we mixed it at some other place. I can't think of the name of it. But it came out fine. Yeah, but for example, if you listen to it, when they mastered it, we weren't part of the mastering process, so we didn't get to sit there with the guy when he mastered it. And you can hear on Free, which is the second song on the record? Yeah, second song.

And a lot of Mastery guys do this, but they only listen to one channel. Sure. So the other channel is blaring.

And what you played like, yeah. He truly captured you. Yeah. He didn't give you any input on what you were doing, but he certainly gave you exactly what you... You got what you put into it. Sure. Yeah, it was perfect. It was $10 an hour. Yeah. And, you know... Did John have a 16 track? I can't remember if that was a 16 or an 8. I can't remember if it was an 8 or a 16. How did he survive charging $10 an hour for recordings?

So the first time I would have gone to him was 95, and it was $10 an hour. How did he survive? I don't know. Because he didn't have a real job. No, no, no. And he lived in that, you know, in the space there, in the living room space. He could have made people fork out a little bit more, a little more fare. But see, that's John. That was his, that punk rock persona that he carried over from the 90s as well, although he's a Santa Barbara guy.

So he had, you know, but, you know, maybe if he had lived closer to us, we would have been fast friends right away. I mean, we're always good, you know. We were always friendly with him, but he would have been part of our crew probably because the Athos was the same. Yeah, we could have gotten that $8 an hour. Right, right. Look at that. So you met the Goodreads guys when you were playing up on the Numskull shows up in Santa Cruz?

So, no. Well, I suppose I could have because I worked for Eddie already. Eddie Numskull was their... their tour manager, right after Forgotten Country came out. So Eddie was their manager. So like the Strife, 88 Fingers, Louie, Good Riddance tour, where that all fell apart for them. 88 broke up. Strife and Good Riddance had issues with each other. Really just Zoli and everybody else had issues with each other. But... Yeah. So you met them when? So... Right then after

I think it was January 97. Yeah. So that was my first... Run with them. Yeah, so it was from December, and then on New Year's Eve, we did the show at the... What's the place down here? Soma? Soma, which the New Year's Eve show was at the sports arena. Okay. And it was like the first descendants returning after their hiatus or whatever. Sure. Yeah, I went to one of those. They played a handful of nights.

Yeah. Well, it was New Year's Eve, and the Descendants played at midnight, and Good Riddance played, you know, they did opposite sides of the basketball ring there.

So everyone was, like, ready... at least down on the floor but everyone was at least down on the floor to watch Good Riddance and that was I think that was a really good thing for them to have that slot so then they I did good and then they hired me and then we went we did a full US tour with Sick of the Roll and Ensign Lifetime shows a bunch of those and then they fired me in Canada because I got road burn and I got all bitter you didn't flip the van?

I flipped the van but they didn't find me because I flipped the van yeah we hit I hit ice in New Mexico Moriarty, New Mexico which is like 80 miles east of Albuquerque and I hit ice and the van flipped yeah But we still got the van fixed. It was just me and the roadie because the band was playing with no effects that day and flying to D.C. to start. That's where we were starting the U.S. tour with Sick of It All. You could have killed

He works for some Star Wars dot net or one of the Star Wars things up and he's a writer for them.

But he's, I mean, I think he understood me probably better than any of them because he suffers from the same, you know, um, issues that I do with addiction and what have you, you know, he had already been clean for several years by that time. But I, I had only been clean for, I was basically a year. I took a year clean with them on that tour. Um, So I had no idea how to act as a human being. I was still drunk all the time. I mean, prior to that year.

So I didn't know how to process my feelings and emotions and stuff, so I would just blow up. Sure. I mean, what you guys saw was the tail end of that. You're still learning how not to be that guy. Yeah, several years later. Yeah. And it still happens on occasion, I suppose. But nowhere near to the regularity. You're out of emotions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can shut yourself down. Yeah. But, yeah, so they fired me. So I came home and we finished the Burning Dog stuff.

And then they called me up and asked if I would do this short tour with them. because Mario couldn't go. I can't remember what happened, but right away I became friends with him again within six or seven months or something like that. I never stopped being friends with him even on the tour. It was just that I wasn't going to work for them full-time anymore. But we became fast friends again, and I have Chuck tattooed on my leg now. You like that? I do.

Yeah. Yeah. What else do you want to talk about? I want to know if there's anything we didn't touch. Sure. Do you feel like you've been well represented? Yeah. How about the missing 23rd record that I produced with Paul? With Paul Minor. Okay. Let's talk about it. Yeah. What is that? Good one. First one, right? First one. Green one. How was that beat? Yeah. Great record. Yeah. On Mankind Records. Yeah. From Igby. From Igby. Yeah. Man with probably the best taste there is, right? Igby?

Yeah. Plucked out that Mr. 23rd. It was... I mean, we can talk about a band that just... Again, just like Nard Curse, right? We haven't really gone on the Nard Curse, but I mean, Missing 23rd is a band. Now, when I started, there was a relative gap between Nard and Ventura. They got mended over time.

He was working at For the Record. This was long before he had Buzz Bomb. His own studio. We recorded the Standard Ground 7-inch with him there. I spilled a 40 all over his cords. I'm sure he was happy about that.

Well, I mean, I just helped set up his... Oh, you're tweaking the knobs. Tweaking knobs and stuff like that, yeah. So they wanted it to sound like a modern minor thread? No. Well, I mean, that's what they did sound like-ish, you know. Especially that early stuff. Sure. Powers of B and the demos before that. And then Control-Alt-Delete totally took a... Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So Victor played on the next record, and that was Nick playing bass before Matty was in the band. Yeah. From Resist.

From Resist, yeah. Nick Diaz. Nick Diaz. Nick Martinez. Can't remember. King City Hardcore. Nick from King City. Yeah. Yeah. So anything else you want to brush on, Joe? No. You feel like you've been represented. I guess so. Do people know who Joe Revis is? No. No. I do. So, all right. This podcast was recorded on March 26th, 2019.