1-3 Plus subscribers can listen to 10% Happier early and add free right now. Join 1-3 Plus in the 1-3 App or on Apple Podcasts. Here is something I hear from people all the time. Guilt and self-criticism about allegedly not being sufficiently consistent about meditation. Side note, one of the amazing things about having started a new online community over at DanHarris.com is that I get to hear from you, the listeners, all the time.
And this issue, consistency, comes back over and over. So here's what I normally say about this. Don't worry about it. Habit formation is hard. It's super common to fall off the wagon. Nothing has been lost if you have missed a day, a week, a year, just start again.
I stand by that answer, but today my guest is going to give an even better answer. This, what you're about to hear, is an interview with one of my favorite Dharma teachers somebody I have worked very closely with over the years, Alexis Santos. We're going to talk about how on a very deep level mindfulness can really fix almost anything. And we're going to discuss some very practical tips for how to stay mindful as consistently as possible throughout your day.
To put it another way, it's about how to get the practice into your molecules, not in some grittertieth militaristic way, but in a way that feels easy and natural. In a way that is self reinforcing because it feels good and you want to keep doing it. Just to say before we dive in here, we are posting this on the day after the 2024 presidential election in the United States.
We spent a lot of time, my team and I think it about what to post on this day, which for many of you might be a moment of uncertainty and angst. And this is the route we have chosen. However, I do want to say if you're listening at some other point in time, or you're listening in some other country and you're not particularly concerned about the American election, this content is evergreen. It's universal.
A little bit about Alexis before we dive in, he's been in the meditation game since 2001. He went to Harvard undergrad that spent a few years in medical school. And then to the chagrin of his parents, he dropped out and went to Asia where he became a Buddhist monk. For many years, he's now nodded robes anymore.
But while he was a monk and to this day, his main teacher has been a fascinating Burmese monk by the name of Sayedah Ultasia Nia, who you will hear us discuss in this conversation. Alexis now teaches retreats all over the world. And he's the co-founder of the open door meditation community in Portland, Maine where he is a guest teacher. Alexis Santos coming up right after this.
Before we get started, as everybody knows, we're in the midst of an anxiety-provoking election week here in the US. One of my favorite slogans is never worry alone. So we're going to put that into action this week with live guided meditations every day. I will be going live each day at 11 Eastern, that's 11 a.m. Eastern and 8 a.m. Pacific.
I'll do a 10 minute guided meditation and then I'll take questions. This is open to all subscribers, free or paid, but you do need to download the Substack app. So head over to DanHarris.com to find out how to do that. And if you can't make it live, you can watch the replay at DanHarris.com.
The happier meditation app just launched a new course called unlearned to meditate. This course takes you deeper into the why behind mindfulness. It's a chance to start fresh and challenge what you think you know about meditation. The teachers involved are Devon Haza, Pascal O'Clair and Matthew Heppern, download the happier meditation app today to explore unlearned to meditate and rediscover your practice.
This podcast is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. Our set is 9. It's been a minute since we've been in the diapers stage of life. I have many, many fond memories of having a little critter around the house. You know, the poop part of it I could take or leave, but that's a non-negotiable fact of life. And given that it's a non-negotiable fact of life, Huggies are a darn good option.
Huggies know that babies come in all shapes and sizes, and so do their tushies. Huggies has more curves and outstanding, active fit. No matter the size of your baby, said baby will feel comfy. And Huggies Little Movers curve to fit all of your curves with 12-hour protection against leaks. Get your baby into the best fitting diaper. Huggies Little Movers wet fit among branded open diapers.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I'd like to take a quick moment, say thank you to you, the listeners of this show. We could not and would not do this work without you. I'm incredibly grateful every single day for the fact that you show up and listen to this show. So again, thank you. I say all this because November is all about gratitude. And along with the listeners of this show, who I just shouted out, there's another person.
Well, I think we should all be thanking ourselves. I recently saw a clip on TikTok of Snoop aka Snoop Dogg when he got his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. And he got up and thanked himself for working so hard and it's hilarious. And also quite wise, obviously we don't want to get into overconfidence or cockiness or self-centeredness.
But actually, I think it's quite healthy to give yourself a pat on the back. So in this month of November, let's send some thanks to the people in your life, including maybe your therapist who are there when you need them. But also, don't leave yourself out of the picture. If you're thinking about starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. I know my therapist is excellent at reminding me to be grateful for the things of the people I may be overlooking in my life.
BetterHelp is entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists any time for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash happier today to get 10% off your first month that's BetterHelpHELP.com slash happier. Alexis Santos, welcome back to the show, my friend. Dan Harris, good to see you.
So this is a bit of a funny episode because I figured I would just kind of put it all out there at the top of this episode for listeners. So they got a sense of what we're thinking about here. We wanted to do an episode for the day after the US presidential election in 2024. However, I'm always thinking about, you know, with a podcast, you want it to be evergreen. So, you know, Marissa, who you know, senior producer on the show, she thought talking to you would be a great idea.
I immediately agreed. It's always a great idea to talk to Alexis Santos. But we're trying to come up with something that will meet people's needs on this morning. Obviously we're recording this in advance, but I suspect there are a lot of feelings on this morning. Probably. And we want to give something useful to people. But also I recognize that people will be listening to this episode in countries far field from the United States and chronologically perhaps several years later.
So we're trying to do two things at once. I said a lot there, but does that all land for you? I'm glad you named it because even though there's a lot of projection that I can do in terms of what the strength of the feelings, one way or another that probably every person in the US and around the world are going to feel it's just helpful for folks that we're listening to know that we are in this moment before the election speaking.
So you and Marissa did some chatting and came up with something that I actually think is really is perfect. Honestly, which is talking about how to keep our meditation practice alive. I'm aware that some people listening to this are aspirational meditators. And so this will be inclusive of you if I'm describing you.
But something I hear from people all the time is I meditated for a couple of weeks or a couple of years and I fell off the wagon. I feel guilty about it or I'm an inconsistent meditator. I'm a bad meditator. As you know, Alexis, I launched this subscription service recently. And so I now I'm hearing from a lot of the listeners to the show. And every time we open up the chat to people to ask me whatever they want.
This comes bubbling right up to the top. So in terms of our overarching emphasis today, it'll be about how to stay engaged in this thing. So before I ask you any questions from a high level, does that sound right to you as an emphasis? That sounds great. I mean, we were just talking for a second before we started. And I was letting you know that I just finished teaching retreat here and outside of Stockholm, Sweden.
Again, as it always is at the end of the retreat, it's the number one question, which is how do I keep going? How do I, you know, after a week of getting some time to settle the mind and heart, there, of course, is a natural wish for some of this pleasant and wonderful experience to continue.
And that's the question that we as our teachers always hear at the end of retreat is how do I keep this going? And that's true, whether or not folks get a chance to go on a retreat or have their own practice at home.
It's the same question. And it's one of the angles of practice that I personally do love, partly because of the teacher that I had studied with as my main teacher, a monk in Burma, named Sajda Otecinia, and his emphasis was exactly in this domain or terrain, which really points to the possibility of bringing practice to life.
Regardless of what we are in, you know, in terms of the roles, responsibilities, everything we're going through, the intensity of experiences that we're bound to face, the bumpy times, the smooth times. So how do we do it? How do we keep going? And that's going to be, I guess, a lot of discussion.
Yeah, there's a lot to talk about here. We could not only fill this episode, but many, many episodes with this. For people who haven't heard you on this show before, we've talked about Tajda Otecinia, the Burma is monk under whom you studied for many years and continue to have a very strong relationship with him. He's an unusual chap. Maybe tell us a little bit about him and his emphasis in practice, which is a little bit different from from many other teachers.
Yeah, you could say a little bit different. I mean, and I think a lot of teachers do come around to this as well, but even though he is a monk and he now has been a monk for somewhere in the vicinity of 25 years, maybe a few years longer than that.
When he talks about his insights, insights, meaning the things that he understood and the growth that he experienced, it is almost always referencing not times that he was on retreat, but actually times when he was at home with his very large family or at his family business that he was being asked to run his family had a textile business.
So he would be in the marketplace meeting customers and really busy, as you can imagine, kind of bustling scene and he developed his practice in the midst of that. And as a result, one of the things that he really tried to get across truly is that we can do this. He did it. He was doing anything.
By the time he decided to stay a monk, it was at the request of his teacher and just a personal choice to really commit his life to be available for folks to ask and learn about these teachings about the Dharma and meditation.
So it's very personal to him in terms of why he teaches, could say a practice that feels available, the kinds of questions, the context in which he learned, but also he was getting a lot of meditators from, could say some other traditions that at that time, I think things have shifted a bit, but he was seeing a lot of folks really trying a lot harder than what he felt was sustainable as a practice.
And if we are going to be trying to develop really an awareness that feels natural and sustainable, we need to learn a relationship to it that is aligned with the quality of awareness.
And it's difficult because so many of our habits of doing anything almost immediately begins with pushing or striving, expecting a result. And that is just a natural conditioning. It's difficult, in fact, to trust a quality like awareness that is soft, it's receptive, it actually is available at any time, but it's so easy to forget.
It's difficult to trust that momentum can build. So what happens is for a lot of folks, they set a timer and they'll meditate for this amount of time and they go for it and then as soon as the bell rings at the end of the timer, the first thought is I'm done. Rather than, okay, let's keep going. Some momentum was just built. Now how do I get up off the cushion, very lightly feeling the body, for example, whatever it is that's one's knowing.
So Taisania is as we've established a Burmese monk with whom you've studied and he has this pronounced emphasis on being mindful or aware all the time in a gentle way, not in a militaristic way. And as you were saying, you know, there's this mindset that can take hold, especially among, you know, type A westerners.
I'm going to ace it during my meditation practice, five minutes, ten minutes, or whatever it is, I'm going to kill it during this time, but then it's done and I move on to like racing through the rest of my life for if you're a more committed practitioner and you're on retreat, you push yourself really hard on retreat and then you know, you're you're right back onto the hamster wheel when you're done.
And Taisania's emphasis is really on just being aware all the time. And so we keep coming back to this word awareness and you describe it, you know, as this kind of natural gentle receptive quality, I can imagine people listening to this and not knowing what you mean exactly by that word awareness. Yeah, so I'll use a few words and then maybe often example. So awareness also mindfulness knowing what's happening as it's happening for some folks listening like an inward listening.
So we're knowing what's happening, but the word that's easier is listening rather than up in the head, knowing, which has oftentimes an intellectual or thought-based quality. It's a direct experiencing of what is happening in the present moment. Noticing if I didn't say that already. So all these words point to that quality of awareness.
Okay, so Dan, I'll just do this with you since we can see each other through video. Maybe just go ahead and lightly put your hands together, your fingertips, your hands. Just do that for a second to maybe those that are listening. And when you can feel the pressure or the temperature of your hands, maybe just give me a little nod. So you can feel that, yeah, is that hard to do? No, it's effortless. Yeah, effortless. And do you know that you're feeling those sensations? Yes.
Okay. And now can you feel your feet on the ground? Yes. Okay, hard to do. No. Right. Where are you feeling your feet before I asked? No. Again, so now once you bring attention to there and there's a recognition that that pressure is being known or whatever it is that you're knowing about the present moment as it's happening, that's the quality of awareness.
And why are we not able to do that all the time? When I'm offering instructions to folks and they come on retreat, one of the things that I almost always ask is this question, is awareness hard? Are you able to be aware continuously throughout the day? And now I was going to ask you when we first said hello at the beginning of this recording, I was going to ask you, Dan, or so can ask you a question.
And if I had done a dramatic pause, you would have known what I was about to ask you because we played this before. Are you aware? Is the mind aware? So in retreat as they get started, oftentimes I frame it in that way is awareness hard. And are you able to do it continuously in your life by prompting it in that way they say, yeah, it's hard.
And what I really want to point out is we have this idea that it's hard, which then means when we bring that idea that it's hard, then we try. Rather than learning how to relate to the present moment, when we're trying to be aware that all that is needed is in some ways the intention or some reminder that again surfaces and we can feel our hands touching or we can remember that for those of you who have the same idea,
for those of you who have the working we call the working ear door meaning we can hear sounds. Just by my mentioning that hearing is happening, even though we've been listening to the sounds of this podcast, now maybe there's some recognition that hearing is happening. Is that happening for you, Dan?
Yeah, hearing is happening, right? So we've been hearing again the reason why this is why it's difficult is because we forget and we don't have momentum. We don't have the habit of awareness arising when we hear sounds. We tend to hear a sound and then we're already in the story and the meaning and everything else that comes along with it, which is natural we need to do.
So what we're trying to do in our practice is to really develop the quality of awareness as a habit that feels available is retiring. We can do it at any time and it doesn't matter how stressful, how busy, how overwhelming an emotion is or how peaceful experiences. We can in fact recognize that it's happening when it's happening and that's the quality of awareness. The thing I was pointing to that my teacher Burma Sido Tachiniya says is a moment of awareness is in difficult.
But remembering is what's challenging and so if we can have a relationship with awareness that has that kind of friendliness and ease. Then instead of judging the experience, we begin to settle back and stay a little bit more on an easy relationship with, oh, I can actually be aware in this moment of something and that's how momentum builds, that's how the habit builds.
But it's so easy to start feeling either some frustration or challenge with what we're experiencing or it's difficult for the mind to trust that it's enough. I want to draw a line under a couple of things you said there. Awareness itself is effortless. It doesn't take any effort to know the sensations in your feet right now.
Although I sometimes let there was a story of friend of mine was teaching mindfulness at one point she said to a room full of Marines bring your attention to your feet and every person in the room leaned over and looked at their feet.
I love that. I shouldn't say it's not easy then because there is you know for the body oftentimes the body isn't in the beginning easy to feel right but you could start with something that we might easily recognize which is are you sitting or standing and just the posture can be enough of just knowing.
So I want to hear what you're about to say about that. You know I appreciate everything you just said there. My point is that there's no effort required essentially to just feel your hands right now or feel your feet for some people it's an unusual move and they're not used to doing something like that but once you make the intention to feel whatever sensations are rising in your feet.
There's no effort required to receive that information but as you were saying the effort isn't the remembering and that is our practice to remember over and over and over to wake up and there are lots of ways to do this and you made a reference to this a few minutes ago. One way to do this is to get in the habit of asking yourself the question that you were planning to ask me which is are you aware and Tasia you know you're teacher.
He teaches by giving people phrases or little mantra as they can drop into their mind frequently throughout the day and the principle one if I'm remembering correctly is this little phrase of are you aware so maybe maybe you could say a little bit about that.
You know I think we are all going to be finding our own way into our practice what works what can feel annoying for some people just asking the question am I aware or is the mind aware can work for a little while and then it feels excessive so how to do anything you know in a way that doesn't feel like a chore but feels. That it actually brings about the benefit that we want to have and so I'll just jump ahead in terms of our discussion just one thing as I was mentioning.
One of the reasons why it's difficult to be aware I find when people start to try to bring awareness into their normal activity is often that pause when we're caught up in the entanglements in the flow of our not just our you know of our life. What we often do experience is a sense of disease of tension of anxiety of rushing and that unpleasantness I find if it's not properly understood in terms of what is happening in that moment.
Can feel defeating as if it's going badly that we're noticing and it's really important to shift the perspective that the knowing is not the experience the experience is already happening when we drop in a moment of knowing that is as the Buddha pointed out one of the most wholesome qualities of mind that can arise because when awareness is present and then you have. A range of possibilities of other qualities like patience pausing kindness self compassion wisdom.
So again easy to judge what's being experienced when awareness surfaces when some knowing arises but that experiences already happening we just don't know or notice how entangled how tense how stressed we are.
And then it's important if we can sense that tension or whatever may feel unpleasant to just see can it be brought down a notch just by recognizing there's some tension in the shoulders or tension you know in the heart area by taking a deeper breath and that cycle reinforces you know like there's so much discussion these days about like dopamine and how we get that next hit and this is in some ways offering the mind.
That benefit reminder that it is actually good to remember to notice because when I touch in and recognize how I'm feeling and then offer myself this moment of maybe softening because the tightening of the body mental contraction whatever is going on when that's lightened a bit that's really inspiring that's encouraging that the mind can shift
but the first thing that happens is we notice the object or the experience rather than that awareness is there now we're knowing and now there's some possibilities.
So don't get discouraged if you start to develop this habit of asking yourself the question am I aware don't get discouraged if what you're aware of feels unpleasant because there's a move you can make after that exactly yes and it's natural and to remember that this is so human to feel entangled and sped up and we're not getting the signals I don't know if you are but you walk around the world.
And the world doesn't have every like sign below it like how are you feeling do you notice your feelings right now can you feel your breath. You know if we live truly in a kind society and it sounds so silly but like we really lived in a loving kind society you know that's what would be there with every message that we're getting if you're really based in kindness and care and wisdom.
What is really important in our lives what we all want to be well we all want to feel safe right we all want to feel these then yet how often do we get those messages in our society right the culture that we live in we have to go on these special retreats are joining these amazing podcasts and other resources and sign up for you know then we get the wonderful messages but otherwise we're kind of left on our own.
I love that mostly the world around us is trying to sell us stuff right or have us compare ourselves to other people but what if all of the advertisements and signage around us or some significant percentage of the advertisements and signage were alerting us to wake up or gently encouraging us to wake up that would be a very different world.
It would be I can almost be somewhat sure of it that when people listen to this podcast and it's a you know someone that has practiced a lot just by the conversation the content and then you know that we are trying to have us probably somewhat mindful conversation that there is an impact of that.
I know when I listen to Dharma talks or some some kind of content like this there's a settling right there isn't ease that begins to rise and why is that well we miss is that we are constantly contacted at every sense door the seeing the hearing our mind or and that contact is constantly either bringing up some quality in the mind that is distracted you know triggered anxious or kindness compassion love and we are constantly in the same way as we are.
compassion love do we know what's getting activated moment to moment through all these experiences which we call our life you know and yet we miss that and yet you know we go around a whole day experiencing this somewhat chaotic world that we're in and then we wonder why it's so exhausting you know by the end of the day and I rarely meet someone coming on retreat once they've really caught up with themselves.
After a day or two and they're no longer depending on the over stimulation of the outside world but are now cultivating these qualities that are these internal qualities of the mind and heart that as they begin to brighten this is when the mind really starts to feel away because because now we have something that is coming from the inside the qualities of the mind and heart and people often surprise like I didn't realize I was so tired but part of it
is that the mind is really only awake and alive when it's intense and we don't have this kind of more subtle clarity and knowing that can arise naturally if we allow it to grow and we do need it look after our minds because they're impacted all the time all the time every moment.
So just to pick up on that we do need to make the time to take care of our minds that takes us right back to the central question of this conversation which is how do we keep our practice alive how do we keep it going one thing you referenced is listening to Dharma talks listening to podcasts reading great books those are reminders they are and they're very powerful. Coming up Alexis talks about how to keep your practice alive and the 010 method that he picked up from Sayodah Bhutajani.
One of the cool things about fall is we get to do a little shopping a little retail therapy I recently went to quince.com got myself a Mongolian cashmere sweater and a new set of socks. Quince is great one of the amazing things about having them as a sponsor is that I got lots of great clothes you've heard me rapsed eyes about my quince sweatpants I also have t-shirts and now this new sweater I love it.
Quince offers affordable high quality essentials for any wardrobe that includes seasonal must haves like the aforementioned Mongolian cashmere sweaters from 60 bucks and comfortable pants for any occasion. Quince only works with factories that use safe ethical and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes and they partner with them directly cutting out the cost of the middleman and passing the savings on to you.
That means quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brand so you can update your look without breaking the bank. Upgrade your wardrobe with pieces made the last with quince go to quince.com slash happier for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns that's q-i-n-c-e.com slash happier to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash happier.
Listening on audible helps your imagination soar whether you listen to stories motivation expert advice any genre you love you can be inspired to imagine new worlds new possibilities new ways of thinking find the genres you love and discover new ones along the way explore best sellers new releases plus thousands of included audio books podcasts and originals that members can listen to all they want.
More added all the time audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine without needing to set aside extra time there's more to imagine when you listen to have been checking out recently or the bell jar by Sylvia Plath. I'm a little embarrassed that I haven't gotten to this one until now but I've been checking it out amazing another hole in my cultural literacy loansome dov which want to culture like many decades ago as an audible member you can choose one.
A month keep from the entire catalog including the latest best sellers and new releases new members can try audible free for 30 days visit audible dot com slash 10% or text 10% 500 500 try audible free for 30 days audible dot com slash 10% before we get started as everybody knows we're in the midst of an anxiety provoking election week here in the US one of my favorite slogans is never worry alone.
So we're going to put that into action this week with live guided meditations every day I will be going live each day at 11 Eastern that's 11 a.m. Eastern and 80 and Pacific I'll do a 10 minute guided meditation and then I'll take questions this is open to all subscribers free or paid but you do need to download the sub stack app so head over to Dan Harris dot com to find out how to do that and if you can't make it live you can watch the replay at Dan Harris dot com.
The happier meditation app just launched a new course called unlearn to meditate this course takes you deeper into the why behind mindfulness it's a chance to start fresh and challenge what you think you know about meditation the teachers involved are Devon has a pass call Oh Claire and Matthew heppern download the happier meditation app today to explore unlearn to meditate and rediscover your practice.
I'd be curious to hear more from you about what you do personally right your professional meditator how do you keep your practice alive. I'm just sitting with that term professional meditator. I don't know my parents will listen to this and they like this is what our son became.
Now these days it's like it's got some cash so you know it's interesting this been a long journey when I left I did ordain for a couple years with side of side all means teacher so I say side out ootessia in Burma so I became a monk there wasn't expecting to I had left medical school in a kind of searching state of mind searching for something I didn't know what it was so clear that basically I was searching how I was doing.
I was searching how to understand the mind because honestly it felt like there was a lot of confusion and and overwhelm in naturally in the system that I was embarking on when I was there and had ordained by the time I was leading not maybe we'll get this opportunity but I had a lot of time to develop basically a light moment to moment awareness without a lot of other responsibilities.
So I had a very unfair we could say advantage in terms of the lives that we live in our daily lives so even with that momentum when I was leading the thought arose I think I am done with any major suffering in this life wow I really think I am done and what happened was I just want to warn people if they have that thought just to hold this moment. Just to hold it lightly because life will happen true or not true and his life happened.
So life keeps happening and the beautiful thing about life is that I'll keep pointing back to ourselves our own hearts and minds what have you still to learn how to be with this how to be with that how to be with this loss in this emotion and what I had done was I started coasting coasting meaning basically using the body.
So I was basically using the momentum that I had built up as like a bank account rather than adding more to the bank account I started drawing it down and what happens if you keep drawing your bank account down without adding to it what happens there you listening. This is a credit matter I didn't realize you were serious about that.
Yes, of course that goes broke you go broke yes well the same way with. So yes you go broke you run out it runs out so because the mind is constantly being conditioned we could say either there's awareness arising or there's not and when awareness is not arising what is being conditioned the habit that's being developed is the tendency of the mind to get entangled for the stories about I and me and the reactivity to grow every time awareness gets.
A moment to come up that momentum gets established but I really had thought my momentum was strong enough to basically I guess see me throughout the rest of this life and it wasn't until I had a year later suffered for my heart pretty significant loss that I realized oh okay I need to keep this going and that's really when I took it to heart that this practice needs to be.
A living practice right something that we can be trying to cultivate all the time any any time that we remember so on a very practical level one of the things that I started to do. And this was encouraged by a protege in my teacher he said if you can just lightly notice as many times as you can throughout the day this feeling and I'm pointing right out to my kind of chest or heart area because this is often where we feel these feelings but if you can feel.
The feeling of being relaxed or tense just that very light question do I feel relaxed or tense that feedback will begin to. I'm going to guide you in terms of how you're doing in any given moment and instead of waiting for the scale to get up to total burnout at eight nine 10 or anger storm or whatever it is that we're going through in that moment rather than it getting way up to that high we could start to say again what you're teaching you describe as a zero one zero.
Zero is balanced one is we begin to send something like the suffering of some experience and by the noticing of it we begin to bring the mind and heart back into balance by a number of practices that we can explore so as we notice our experiences that's when our awareness our wisdom in terms of trying to figure out and understand what is happening what's being believed what is being resisted that is causing this reactivity to grow and grow and grow.
So seeing this pendulum swing throughout the day if we again have a moment of noticing tense or relaxed that quality of awareness can be enough to start to drop in more moments of the day what we want to do is not to think about having awareness and just holding on to it and stretching it because that is what we think about as as effort let me just hold on to this quality and make it happen.
Well we want to think about in terms of awareness is when we remember to notice let's drop that reminder in and then relax. So this step for me when I'm guiding folks is so important I think we've talked about this then maybe even on the other podcast recording that we did the swing analogy of tapping the swing that we don't need to run with the swing which would be exhausting and that's what we try and do with awareness.
We try and do with awareness is trying to hold on to the experience versus lightly knowing how we're feeling feeling our hands and then allowing the awareness swing to happen until we have to tap it again like pushing a kid on a swing exactly and you had your your interesting story to tell about that.
Just that just that at the time you told me this is like four years ago my son was four and a half or something and I said that when I push my son on a swing often you know I push him and he floats out and he comes back and passes gas right in my face waking up to whatever is happening right now is often very unpleasant.
Exactly. Yeah. But I do pick up what you're saying that I see this in my own practice to this day I was actually practicing last night doing some walking meditation before bed and I was actually doing a side out mutation.
The thing where I was asking myself what's the attitude of my mind right now just checking in like what's what's going on and I often joke that that question is a little bit like and people have heard you say this before so I acknowledge that I'm reverting to stick here a little bit but it's a little bit like shining a black light.
In a hotel room on the sheets you know you'll see a lot of disgusting stuff if you do that and same if you ask yourself what's the attitude in my mind right now like what's preventing me from being present right now and often for me it's a leaning in it's a striving it's a wanting to win that meditation and that is really helpful because I as you see that ideally you can relax a little bit recognize this is just one little moment at a time.
The way to to make a longer string of moments is just to look at it like a pushing a kid on swing you do the little push and then relax eventually you the mind will get taken somewhere else and hopefully you'll wake up a little bit and push the swing again you're
right the pushing or tapping the swing and the important part there is to remember that and this is really hard for the mind our habits of mind to trust is that as soon as we're noticing even the intention to tap the swing it really is enough is already happened awareness is already back just by the intention to be aware again and that's where the
way to get in the tightness the judging the kind of like all of those attitudes that begin to creep in and where this new relationship to awareness can begin to arise is that oh it's not hard to be aware it's not hard to be because these attitudes of striving and pushing sneak in behind the practice and when they're not noticed then we call them a hindrance let's say right they hinder the practice because they're going a notice as soon as they're noticed
then it's just another experience that we can be learning about and the more we have that wisdom view that it doesn't matter what the experience is but that we're knowing it and we're knowing it we could say with some wisdom some understanding that this is a natural process when we really take that in we really take that in it really does take a while for people to hear that
but it doesn't matter what the experience is what the experience is it doesn't matter it is another set of conditions coming together and there will be forever weather patterns sunny days rainy days boring days exciting days and the same with moments so the less that we get focused on the experience and trying to control the experience and the outcome and the more that we understand that it's in the meeting
first recognizing if we're aware and then learning about how we're relating to it that's the practice then really the whole life becomes available in terms of learning all the time learning learning but this awareness needs to get some momentum first
okay well so in terms of building that momentum when I asked you earlier how do you keep your practice going you told the whole story about how well you'd gotten a little cocky and then you know life came at you and you came back to this very simple instruction from your teacher to get into the habit of checking in with your chest
sometimes think about ET you know in that movie ET like the color and the aliens chest always like signal to what his emotional state was it so you got in this habit of checking in with the chest and that was really helpful you didn't say anything about formal meditation practice and so how do you think about people getting in there 5 10 1 minute daily ish of practice within the context of keeping overall mindfulness or awareness alive
I say great really and this may sound a little contradictory even though I love to emphasize the potential of being aware naturally in any experience
at the same time why do we always need to be occupied and busy do we really need to fill up every minute and so if you do have a minute that's available or 5 minutes or half an hour why not just put things down and put the entire you know orientation or intention of the mind on to remembering to notice the present moment and developing that momentum
so yes having some formal moments that really kind of bring us back into our practice that we reconnect with awareness wonderful as many moments as you can some people like you know we're just sharing on this retreat here in Sweden they use the bathroom as they're little time to have a few minutes to check in every time they go to the bathroom
it's their time for practice people were offering different places that they you know how do they support themselves because at the end of retreat everyone's trying to figure out so how do we keep going so finding formal time wonderful but not having the idea that awareness depends on the body in a certain posture the eyes being closed or things being peaceful because that idea often blocks the awareness from maturing
we want to do is have the awareness mature to grow up meaning it can start to receive more and more experiences how do we begin to notice when we're talking how we're feeling like you know right now Dan as we're talking you know so for me I'm talking my hands are moving and there's now a habit of noticing just lightly when my when I'm talking to notice something about my body to notice how I'm feeling
but until I started bringing awareness and interest to the speaking I had no familiarity of how to do that so again my teacher basically said well see where you're not good at awareness and try to bring it there and so people might say well I'm not good at being aware at all anywhere which is often how we feel when we're caught up in things but we start exactly right now right now so whatever is going on you know for us right now we feel the body
taking a deep breath and then after this podcast is over listening then we try to remember so no one can do this for us but the more that we're inspired and for me hearing a teacher tell me that he did it in his busy work life basically was an inspiration for me to say okay I can do this it is doable what are some of the ways and reminding myself as many times as I can that it makes a difference this moment
that this moment makes a difference of awareness because we often assume that a single moment of knowing that we're breathing is insignificant it doesn't do anything but that's how habits build so what I'm basically trying to do right now is just to empower inspire whoever's listening to not underestimate a moment of awareness it does grow it does grow and the more moments of the day that awareness can come in in a very natural way
you don't have to be like you know precious or looking like you're meditating or anything it's just knowing something about yourself in the direct experience and that's a moment of knowing great great and then when's the next moment
it doesn't interfere with what we're doing and the activity and the speed it's more that we're bringing now awareness with us into those activities coming up Alexis talks about how the practice can help us stay sane in tumultuous times and how he's been handling all of the election anxiety and how we can apply the practice of mindfulness to especially painful life situations which never stop even if you've been a Buddhist monk and Alexis is going to talk about breakup he recently went through
this episode is brought to you by Hills Pet Nutrition every shelter pet deserves a second chance and you are making it possible for thousands of them every day because when you feed your pet Hills you help feed a shelter pet which helps to make them healthy happy and more adoptable I am a huge unrelenting un reconstructed fan of adopting shelter cats we've got three shelter cats mirroding around our home and actually my friend and former colleague with Johnson was here the other day
he's an anchor man at ABC News but he's got a side hustle it's not really a hustle it's a volunteer gig on the side where he fosters puppies and he brought a puppy here the other day to our house and we almost adopted that puppy but putting that was the dog's name went to somebody else anyway I think it's really cool that Hills Pet Nutrition supports animal shelters by feeding shelter pets
Hills has provided more than $300 million in pet food to more than a thousand shelters over 14 million shelter pets fed and adopted science did that visit Hills pet dot com slash podcast to learn more with big wireless providers what you see is never what you get somewhere between the store and your first month's bill the price you thought you were paying magically skyrockets with mint mobile you'll never have to worry about gotchas ever again
when mint mobile says $15 a month when you purchase a three month plan they mean it this sounds great as somebody who has spent many hours trying to figure out what is going on when I stare at my long and inscrutable mobile bills
with mint mobile you can say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages mint mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at $15 a month all plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5g network
use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and you can bring along your existing phone number along with all of your existing context to get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month go to mint mobile dot com slash happier that's mint mobile dot com slash happier cut your wireless bills to $15 a month at mint mobile dot com slash happier $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 a month
new customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan additional taxes fees and restrictions apply see mint mobile for details I want to ask a little bit more about how you apply these teachings in your own life let me start with the election since we're recording this in the midst of a nail bite of an election and then we're posting it the day after the voting
I have a memory of you telling me once that one of your little habits that you struggle with is a compulsion to check the news I don't know if that's still with you but I'm curious like how and when and whether you are able to apply your practice to the cultural political social tumult we are living through
yes, yeah, I would say I have since we talked those years ago the habit of checking is has improved I would say during an election season the checking of the polls can be relentless for what my mind is curious about and so it's really just a company myself to notice that that is what the mind is wanting to do you know my tendency now to practice when I'm with being myself in my natural living process is basically
to notice what's happening without trying to control and push too much I just have so much momentum of practicing in that way that I trust as long as the mind isn't wanting to do something that is going to cause harm and is skillful it is not in that terrain that basically I just allow what's happening but I bring interest rather than trying to shut it down and to judge it the mind is already doing something so the awareness is there
and I have seen so many patterns and unskilledful reactivities shift and be let go of as a result of that rather than trying to get out of it or to prevent something but to actually bring awareness and a kindness right a non-judgmental attitude to it but really really doing that not just saying that so I let my mind for the most part alone and then to be aware
so am I checking the polls yes because the mind finds it fascinating and deeply important but so is everyone and it seems like on the whole spectrum of political views and I find that very interesting so just to restate that you you don't fight the tendency to you know if you notice like a zombie arm reaching for the phone and hitting refresh on you know the polling averages
you don't fight that but you try to wake up as much as possible to notice it in a non-judgmental even friendly way interested way yeah it's happening it's okay it's not causing anyone harm this is a little different I have a lot of momentum of practice so it isn't weakening my awareness when I do that and is it the most skillful move the mind the heart could make in that moment you know you know be probably more skillful for me to just look at the phone and say
this is just another moment it's not going to affect the outcome if I know what the polls are in this moment or not and that happens sometimes that wisdom can come in I know I'm not the determinator of the whether I know or not it makes no difference to the world and I'm also I like a relationship to awareness that doesn't control
again that doesn't mean that there isn't times and frequently as soon as awareness comes in how I relate to it is very quick I'm just sort of building it up as a bigger thing but there are plenty of times of course that once awareness shows up it knows how to be in what we're in in a more skillful way just by noticing right what is burning what is agitating you know in the Buddha's reflections
this is in the train of wise speech I think more than anywhere else we're just sort of asking is this useful so when a wisdom phrase like that comes in is this useful is this onward leading is this leading to some sort of benefit then that for sure can steer us and I just allow that to develop in a very organic way but we want to know for ourselves each of us what helps us navigate the habits
and different life experiences that we are bumping up against when is it helpful to choose and steer our actions in certain direction when is it helpful to simply learn about and in the learning allow that to slowly develop our wisdom our insight
yeah it's interesting this compulsion to check the news or the polls how's it going for you down I actually I have many compulsions that's not really a huge one is not me yeah you were in it for so long I spent so much time as a journalist that I'm kind of going through a detox yeah the detox period with with information but although I could imagine on the morning this is posting I will be in the state of compulsively checking of course
and I'm just honing in on something you said before because you don't you have this relationship to awareness or mindfulness that you're not trying to control and at the same time the desire to check the polls I think is based in some sort of compulsion to control as if knowing what the vote counter the polling averages is going to impact in any way what is actually objectively factual
yes that's totally fascinating and that is what the mind is doing that's how we learn about what the mind gets entangled in what it thinks it's doing when it's checking and so there's some emotional state that is getting activated when we check something that will win that when the release of that is really seen through what will have happened is that the push of what is driving me to look at the polls
would be some kind of anxious wanting to get the outcome that I want and when that is fully thoroughly completely understood it would be meaningless to check the poll because there'd be no more energy in that direction because the wisdom at that point would simply know useless not going anywhere just another moment to the mind picking up some data that is a snapshot in time that has very little anyway
is probably true knowledge of what is going to happen a month from now well has already happened in terms of this right listen to yes although it's already happened the voting's already happened but the odds are we don't know the outcome so and we may not for days so we're making our best guess collectively about like how to serve you on this moment also bearing in mind that you may be listening to this you know in 2028
and we also want to be useful to you that well just in the in our remaining time here Lexus talking you know in the in the spirit of because I was love talking to Dharma teachers or meditation teachers not only about their instructions for practice for the rest of us but also how they apply those instructions in their own lives
and you made reference to the fact that you know life keeps happening you can you can ordain as a monk for as long as you like but the shit's going to keep happening to you people are going to die relationships are going to end you know that's where the rubber hits the road it's been a minute since you and I've checked in and I know in that time you've gone through a break up with a long term partner and that has caused some turbulence in your own mind so I be curious we obviously don't need to get into the details of the break up
but more in terms of the ramifications in your own life in your own mind and how you've been able to apply the practice are you comfortable talking about all that sure yeah it's real it's real and why I'm a Dharma teacher is because you know I am interested in what's real but with boundaries in terms of you know care and respect
yeah it was a very it was a long term relationship 16 years and it was a really painful experience in the ending as you know I think as anyone who's gone through a long term relationship almost all of them hurt in some way it's a loss right there's something you lose your best friend you no longer in the same routines the same habits my journey it was a journey you know I had to go through grief a lot
grief I wasn't expecting that amount of grief wasn't expecting what got open I think very I think not even about the relationship I think experiences often open up a portal in a way to deeper wounds maybe very young ancient things but we feel like it's the particular experience that we're going through that's the cause when in fact if there was an experience
there was enough awareness and wisdom and compassion it would just be a situation to handle it would just be what it is right there are some traumas that we still experience when we're older but oftentimes there is some connection to maybe very young material and I think that's what partly start open up for me once I went through the initial big changes and life pattern changes
and then the grief of it all then I became really interested in terms of what is this opening up for me and seeing questions we could say of fundamentally do I belong in this universe I am I separate or do I belong that's a hard question to get at and I think that's what I began to feel and could begin to bring some awareness to
but again in terms of the what did I do I was watching the heart go through so much and the mind and watching the cycles of it going from very intense for quite a while and then slowly settling and really being interested really
being interested in what my mind and heart would end up choosing to do because it really did feel like that to me because I didn't know how I would be responding and what became interesting was to see the result of practice of all these all these years of practice really emerge so I have delighted in the way my ex and I have met each other during this time
and I just talked about retreat together three weeks ago so not the normal relationship breakup course that I think a lot of people take which is and we were even putting the same cabins so we were you know we had our own little rooms but we were cabin mates in this retreat so to watch that a year and now a half later that we were at that place and absolutely enjoying the process that we had undertaken which really was a result of being with the experiences
a lot of listening fair dose of therapy of course always helpful if you can connect to someone that can listen and allow you to go through what you're going through myfulness awareness practices they do they work it seems I mean I often reflect to students like if you just describe the quality of awareness like how would you describe it so people often describe like awake clear not lost
knowing what's happening in the present moment it's a subtle quality the Buddha pointed out and yet here is the subtle quality that when it's developed can be so so transformative if we bring it in into our ordinary moments so that more moments of our day are with awareness
right then without and how do we do that again it's not pushing the pause button where do we push the pause button and for most of it it's going to be all the time so what helps us to push the pause button to turn it back on to press play is it some moments of formal practice is it listening to you know Dharma talks and podcasts and reading is it finding certain activities like driving where we start to actually make it a priority
let me try and be aware of just how I'm feeling as I drive you know how I'm passing people am I cutting them off am I allowing like what is what how am I working like what do I notice and again it doesn't have to be exquisite detail just some kind of knowing is enough and again the mechanisms there by which this simple awareness can be helpful the mechanisms
I'm just trying to figure out how to say this allowed clearly if people are wondering how can just being mindful as much as possible and building up that momentum how can that help me endure a bad breakup or a tough election results or the uncertainty of any given situation there are lots of mechanisms that I'm hearing you describe but what least one of them is you're not as caught up in your habitual often negative thinking patterns giving yourself a break and then more creative
wholesome options can arise yeah and basically knowing what's happening and remembering that it's okay that it's happening which is a bit of wisdom that it's okay to be feeling overwhelmed it's okay to be feeling heartbreak it's okay to be feeling angry right so I did a lot of stomping around a lot of dancing to pretty loud music ACDC which I had never really listened to before became the top thunderstorm just I was meeting something to match the emotions that I was in
and if I was like a precious dharma teacher I wouldn't listen I mean like I mean a precious whatever would be but now it's real so how do we be real with what's going on that step one is to just honest I feel overwhelmed I feel scared and that's okay that's what's here that's universal we all go through this and by recognizing the universality of it that it's okay to be feeling what we're feeling that begins the relationship shifting
instead of being caught and completely overwhelmed we might be able to soften right soften into it take a deep breath some sort of settling maybe happening and once we could say these qualities of awareness of some sort of wisdom kindness once those qualities have a foothold and they're strong enough then they're able to meet the strength of what would otherwise the strength of the experience that would otherwise overpower the mind that's why when we feel overwhelmed
it's basically an imbalance of these two things which is the strength of the experience and how we active the mind is becoming and the qualities that we have available in that moment so when we're not rested when we're already feeling flooded and anxious then yes we get really entangled and we do the best we can we do the best we can at those times until we have you know we come out into the some calmer waters and then we continue we continue right to see how to how to be in our lives
in as skillful way as possible which for me one of the best ways is just by checking in very lightly what can I know right now and what we know is going to be either the body or the mind one of the sandstorms seeing hearing the body breathing or all the mental activity so if we keep it really simple like that then it becomes more and more accessible dude I think it's incredibly helpful that you know to have a Dharma teacher like you who's willing to talk about all of it
instead of presenting some you know facade of impeccable equanimity and I'm going to cherish that visual of you stomping around to ACDC oh yes for quite a while run on those fumes for a minute one of the things you've talked about and I made a reference to this earlier one of the things you and I have talked about in the past is an area of struggle for you as public speaking it's you know I didn't know judgment here I'm the guy you know freaked out on national
television so I have a lot of empathy for that and so I just want to say in closing here this is phenomenal you were great and so helpful and exactly I hope what the doctor ordered at this moment in time for for people yeah so the long way of saying thank you. Well dance it's a pleasure and as you know I do love to talk about the Dharma and even though I might can see on the video I may look kind of flashed. Maybe that's why you keep mentioning that trying to put me at ease.
Yeah I was just sharing to the retreat here oftentimes now one of the things that I do share because it's shock it's really a surprising people hearing the extent to which I was terrified absolutely terrified before during and then all the shame and suffering that would come afterwards to actually point to the ability of the mind to change so that now I mean what used to be tsunamis are you know it's a nice sunny day at the beach there's still some
waves but it's a totally different experience yeah just to see the mind change is is a wonderful thing. Yeah and the way it happens is we don't we can't make it all happen we can put in the conditions any moment so Dan great to be with you. Yeah to just restate everything you just said and much prefer in profan in terms of this shit works in your great avatar of that so thanks again for coming on and we'll put links in the show notes to your website so people can learn more from you thank you.
Great Dan. It's just incredible. Thanks again to Alexis always great to talk to him I will post in the show notes some of his prior appearances on this show. Also I will be in the chat today on this very stressful day so if you want to talk to me come to Dan Harris. Before I go just want to thank everybody who worked so hard to make this show our producers are Cara Anderson, Caroline Keenan and Alan Orvisilli are recording an engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People.
Lauren Smith is our production manager Merissa Schneiderman is our senior producer DJ Kashmir is our executive producer and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands Rokar Fee. If you like 10% happier I hope you do you can listen early and add free right now by joining 1-3 plus in the Wondry Apple or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry dot com slash survey.
I'm Lindsey Graham the host Wondry show American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history presidential lies environmental disasters corporate fraud in our latest series. The Houston Astros shock major league baseball by going from last place to winning the world series in just four years. This remarkable turnaround seems to vindicate Astros general manager Jeff Luno who's unconventional use of data and the latest technology
stirred controversy around the league. But when two reporters uncover that some players and coaches have been using that technology to cheat it casts doubt on the Astros culture of winning at all costs. Follow American scandal on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts experience all episodes ad free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondry plus you can join Wondry plus in the Wondry app Apple podcasts or Spotify start your free trial today.
Make this holiday season wow with a brand new way to play from Wondry kids and the number one kids podcast wow in the world we are making STEM toys fun like never before. First time ever be wowed with exclusive engaging companion audio that comes with each STEM toy each STEM kit includes a bonus science tool and three months of Wondry plus free. We will talk about the full wow in the world toy collection today at Amazon dot com slash Wondry kids.