Liturgeeks, unite! Eric and Emily are joined by Nick Wagner and Diana Macalintal, new friends from the November 2024 Symposium at University of Dayton, to geek out about good liturgy. The heart of the conversation dwells on Rivers’ concept of effective worship and how liturgists in various cultural contexts can—and must—encourage communities to achieve worship that is both beautiful and that forms disciples bent on justice. Lots of smart talk in this episode about liturgy, liturgical anthropolog...
May 23, 2025•1 hr 18 min•Season 3Ep. 40
Eric and Emily interview author and speaker Daryl Grigsby, who with Dr. Cynthia Bailey Manns, presented at last November’s Seeking for a City Symposium at the University of Dayton. Daryl’s new book, Catholics for the Common Good: An Eternal Offering , highlights the lives of thirty-six Catholics whose lives exemplify the line of Eucharistic Prayer III that asks God to “make of us an eternal offering to you.” Eric, Emily and Daryl discuss his presentation at the Symposium (including the insights ...
Feb 28, 2025•54 min•Season 3Ep. 39
Emily and Eric interview Bianca C. Farmer, an archivist-in-training at the Catholic University of America. As part of her coursework for her Master’s in Library and Information Science, Bianca completed a 50-hour practicum in CUA’s Special Collections, and she spent these hours with Father Rivers! She was responsible for the intake, organization and documentation of a new donated collection focused on Father Rivers. Emily and Eric find out what’s in this new collection and who donated it; they a...
Jan 28, 2025•55 min•Season 3Ep. 38
Enjoy a unique and innovative Christmas Eve service created by Fr. Rivers--and Emily and Eric's commentary on the historic recording--in this replay episode of Meet Father Rivers. Merry Christmas! (No show notes.)
Dec 24, 2024•57 min•Season 3Ep. 37
It's a live episode of Meet Father Rivers! Eric and Emily have spent the last year or more helping Deacon Royce Winters (Office of African American Pastoral Ministries, Archdiocese of Cincinnati) organize an academic symposium on Black liturgy and culture to mark the 40th Anniversary of the Black Bishops' pastoral letter "What We Have Seen and Heard" and the 20th anniversary of Fr. Rivers' death. The symposium took place Nov. 22-24, 2024 at the University of Dayton. This live episode of MFR enga...
Nov 30, 2024•56 min•Season 3Ep. 36
Emily and Eric introduce you to some new friends and collaborators: Dr. Darnell Allen St. Romain and Dr. Darrell Anthony St. Romain, twin brothers, recent doctoral degree recipients and Catholic church musicians who will together present a breakout presentation at “Seeking for a City,” the upcoming November Symposium at the University of Dayton on Black liturgy and culture. Their breakout will be titled “Soulful, Black and Catholic” and focuses on Black Catholic composers since 1964 and the ways...
Nov 01, 2024•1 hr 5 min•Season 3Ep. 35
In this first episode of Season 3 of Meet Father Rivers , Emily and Eric discuss a recent scholarly publication about Father Rivers, an upcoming Symposium on Black Catholic liturgy and culture, and a new e-newsletter for friends of the podcast and anyone interested in Father Rivers Studies. For Episode 34 Show Notes, click here.
Sep 27, 2024•37 min•Season 3Ep. 34
In this episode, we discuss the second of Michael DeFrancesco's interviews with Fr. Rivers in the last few years of Rivers’ life, recently posted to YouTube. Emily and Eric are joined by Fr. Tom DiFolco, retired priest of the Archdiocese of Cincinnati and fellow friend of Fr. Rivers. The three point out interesting features of the second DeFrancesco interview, especially his comments on the role of priest as a cultic function, discussing Rivers’ insights and their broad-ranging implications for ...
May 27, 2024•1 hr 3 min•Season 2Ep. 33
In this episode, we discuss the first of the interviews Michael DeFrancesco conducted with Fr. Rivers in the last few years of Rivers’ life, recently posted to YouTube. Emily and Eric listen to clips of the interview and discuss their broad-ranging implications for worship today. For Episode 32 Show Notes, click here.
Apr 29, 2024•55 min•Season 2Ep. 32
In this episode, we interview Michael and Martha DeFrancesco, a Cincinnati couple who enjoyed a life-long friendship with Fr. Rivers that can only be described as “found family.” Martha and Michael share personal memories and wonderful details about Fr. Rivers the man (rather than the legend). They also share a few treasures in the form of footage from interviews Michael conducted with Fr. Rivers in the last few years of his life, allowing us to post them to YouTube for everyone’s enjoyment and ...
Mar 24, 2024•1 hr 3 min•Season 2Ep. 31
We’re still talking about that phenomenal recording of Fr. Rivers and the Hawkins Family in a new episode of MFR! And we talk about so much more as well. Bonus content from our interview with composer and former Church musician Scott Patterson, featured in Episode 29, forms the content of this episode of Meet Father Rivers. Eric tells us more about Afro House, the art collective our guest Scott (and Alisha Patterson) lead. Then Emily, Eric and Scott discuss music ministry, form in art (and when ...
Feb 23, 2024•1 hr 1 min•Season 2Ep. 30
Eric and Emily and special guest Scott Patterson discuss a concert Fr. Rivers hosted on August 19, 1971, recorded live at the Detroit Institute of Arts auditorium and produced by the National Office of Black Catholics. The concert—and the week-long workshop that preceded it—were intended as “an act of freedom on the part of contemporary American Black Catholics” to make their “own impact on Catholic worship” (Joseph Davis, SM, from the album’s back cover). The conversation focuses on clips of th...
Jan 23, 2024•1 hr 21 min•Season 2Ep. 29
Eric and Emily discuss an archival recording of a Christmas liturgy Fr. Rivers designed and presided over from 1972, then later published in his 1974 book Soulfull Worship. Emily and Eric discuss the recording, play clips, and compare and contrast worship practices from 1972 until now. Fr. Rivers' signature style is on full display in this special Christmas episode of Meet Father Rivers. For Episode 28 Show Notes, click here....
Dec 19, 2023•57 min•Season 2Ep. 28
Eric and Emily explore a great accomplishment for Black Catholics in the US many years in the making: the Lead Me Guide Me hymnal, published by GIA Publications in 1987. After some background on the hymnal’s development, hosts introduce Marjorie Gabriel-Burrow, who chaired the committee that brought the hymnal to birth. Marjorie, an internationally acclaimed musician and composer, has served the Catholic Church as a pastoral musician since the eighth grade and since 1992 at St. Augustine-St. Mon...
Nov 28, 2023•55 min•Season 2Ep. 27
Eric and Emily interview a key musical collaborator of Fr. Clarence Rivers: pianist, composer and arranger William Foster McDaniel. Billy recalls meeting Fr. Rivers in Paris in 1966, where both were pursuing graduate studies. He details how he later worked and traveled with Fr. Rivers for years as his pianist and arranger and shares a recording of a song he co-composed with Rivers called "Soul." Finally, Billy and the hosts discuss Fr. Rivers' legacy and the uniqueness of his contributions. For ...
Oct 31, 2023•1 hr•Season 2Ep. 26
Hosts Emily and Eric catch up after a break from podcasting, sharing the projects and events that kept them busy this summer, including travel to present on Fr. Rivers at the National Black Catholic Congress in the Washington, D.C. area. They introduce the second season of the show with a fascinating, 1968 article from National Catholic Reporter interviewing Fr. Rivers. Rivers' setting of the Creed is also shared and discussed. For show notes for Episode 25, click here....
Sep 29, 2023•56 min•Season 2Ep. 25
Eric and Emily receive a unique and precious gift: a wedding video recording from 1994 in which Fr. Rivers leads his original Eucharistic Prayer, the Anaphora of the Lion and Lamb. Eric and Emily talk to the bride and groom, Pam and Matt Fellerhoff, about their experience and play audio clips from their memorable celebration. Eric and Emily discuss their reactions to this extraordinary find. For the Episode 24 Show Notes, click here....
May 26, 2023•1 hr 4 min•Season 1Ep. 24
Emily and Eric examine a new book that contains two essays by Fr. Clarence Rivers: the Black Catholic Studies Reader: History and Theology, recently published by Catholic University of America Press. We speak with editor Fr. David Endres, a priest of Archdiocese of Cincinnati, seminary dean, and editor of US Catholic Historian. We also speak to one of the book’s contributors, Dr. Cecilia Moore, associate professor of religious studies at University of Dayton. We talk about how the Reader came to...
Apr 26, 2023•1 hr 17 min•Season 1Ep. 23
Emily and Eric welcome Bro. Louis Canter, OEF, life-long Catholic liturgist, pastoral musician and composer, to the show to talk about an old box of music, slated for destruction, that he found at a pivotal time in his young career. The box was full of colorful music from a publisher called Stimuli, Inc., by a composer named Fr. Clarence Jos. Rivers. Louis tells us about how rescuing that box and playing through it in his free time set a trajectory for his life and career in ministry, helping hi...
Jan 21, 2023•52 min•Season 1Ep. 22
Emily and Eric welcome Black Catholic podcasters Nate Tinner-Williams and Lorna DesRoses to Meet Father Rivers to celebrate Black Catholic History Month (November) with the first-ever Rivers Reading Club. Participants discuss one of Fr. Rivers’ most provocative and insightful pieces of writing: a chapter called “The Oral African Tradition Versus the Ocular Western Tradition.” The chapter is available as a free download, compliments of Orbis Books (see Show Notes for the link). We discuss Fr. Riv...
Nov 28, 2022•1 hr 10 min•Season 1Ep. 21
Happy Black Catholic History Month! In this brief but important episode, listeners get oriented to this celebratory month and receive a homework assignment for next episode. But don’t fear—this is homework you’ll want to do! The fine folks at Orbis Books have given us permission to share a chapter Fr. Rivers published in the 1998 scholarly collection, Taking Down Our Harps (ed. by Fr. Cyprian Davis, OSB and Diana L. Hayes) entitled “The Oral African Tradition Versus the Ocular Western Tradition....
Nov 15, 2022•28 min•Season 1Ep. 20
Emily and Eric continue their conversation with composer Ken Canedo by asking a tough question about whether Fr. Rivers got co-opted and left behind by the White folk movement in the American Catholic Church. Ken provides a thoughtful response that involves (of all things) Catholic missalettes and lack of accompaniment, and discussion turns to the ways Fr. Rivers may have unintentionally hindered access to his own works. We pose Ken our standard question about Fr. Rivers’ obscurity, and Ken’s an...
Oct 28, 2022•44 min•Season 1Ep. 19
Catholic composer and musician Ken Canedo discusses the influence of Fr. Rivers on his life and career in liturgy and music. Ken is the co-composer (with Bob Hurd) of the Gospel-styled song “Alleluia! Give the Glory”. Ken and the hosts talk about the advice Fr. Rivers gave Ken when he met him as a young composer and what elements of Fr. Rivers’ compositions Ken still strives to incorporate today. Ken is also a chronicler of the story of contemporary music in the North American Catholic Church si...
Oct 14, 2022•46 min•Season 1Ep. 18
Eric and Emily interview celebrated Catholic liturgical music composer and liturgy scholar Fr. Jan Michael Joncas, who has penned such classics as “On Eagles’ Wings” and “I Have Loved You” about Rivers as a composer. Fr. Mike shares two of his own compositions for liturgy in which one can hear Fr. Rivers’ influence clearly (full songs included). The conversation situates Rivers as an American Catholic composer and highlights Fr. Rivers’ historical significance, our changing times, and other comp...
Sep 27, 2022•59 min•Season 1Ep. 17
Fr. Joseph A. Brown, SJ is our guest on this episode: a Jesuit priest and professor of Africana studies and scholar of Black Catholicism and liturgy. Fr. Brown is a poet, an artist and was a friend and colleague of Fr. Rivers. He tells how he first heard Fr. Rivers’ music and shares his belief that Fr. Rivers’ scholarly works are an undiscovered gem of American Catholicism. Hosts and guest discuss how we must share Rivers' ideas and legacy in the digital age. Fr. Joseph teaches us about sankofa:...
Aug 30, 2022•1 hr 16 min•Season 1Ep. 16
Emily and Eric conclude their investigation of Fr. Rivers’ career teaching high school English and drama at Purcell in Cincinnati. Former Queen’s Man Kenneth Stevens shares his memories of Fr. Rivers as a teacher, director and inspiration for Ken’s long and productive career in the arts. Ken describes Rivers’ influence on his own career, contributing to his can-do attitude and his ability to look at situations without prejudice to create amazing results. Ken and the hosts talk about Rivers as a ...
Jul 31, 2022•50 min•Season 1Ep. 15
Emily and Eric continue their investigation of Fr. Rivers’ career teaching high school English and drama at Purcell in Cincinnati. Fr. Rivers started a drama troupe at Purcell, an all-boys Catholic high school, called the Queen’s Men. 1962 Purcell High School grad Dan Sack sits down with Emily and Eric to tell them about his first-hand experience of Fr. Rivers as a director, teacher and life-long friend. Surprisingly, he also shares how the troupe was broken apart when many of its members became...
Jul 12, 2022•46 min•Season 1Ep. 14
As a newly-ordained priest, Fr. Rivers served as an English teacher, guidance counselor and drama coach at Purcell High School in Cincinnati in the late 1950s into the 1960s. There, he changed lives. Emily and Eric start their investigation of Fr. Rivers as high school teacher with Purcell teaching colleague, Fr. James Heft, SM. Fr. Jim was fresh out of college at the time of his encounter with Fr. Rivers, but went on to a distinguished career in the academy as an expert in Catholic secondary an...
Jun 21, 2022•33 min•Season 1Ep. 13
Emily and Eric interview Fr. Tom DiFolco, retired priest of the Archdiocese of Cincinnati who was mentored by Fr. Rivers, forming a friendship with Fr. Rivers as a fellow priest that greatly enhanced Fr. Tom’s own priestly ministry. Fr. Tom has served the Black Catholic parishes of Cincinnati for 25 years, and he opens up about the joys and challenges of his ministry and—most especially—how he has been forever changed by the life and influence of Fr. Clarence Rivers. The conversation includes a ...
May 31, 2022•57 min•Season 1Ep. 12
Emily and Eric interview Wilton Cardinal Gregory, the seventh Archbishop of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Washington and the first African American Cardinal—ever!—in the Roman Catholic Church. Cardinal Gregory shares how he first encountered Fr. Rivers, what Rivers’ work meant to him as a young seminarian, priest and Bishop, and how he continues to pray in thanksgiving for Fr. Rivers’ work and witness. He explains how he came to possess one of Fr. Rivers’ pectoral crosses and what it means t...
Apr 26, 2022•50 min•Season 1Ep. 11
