WE'RE BACK! Analyzing Why Colorado & Maine Decisions Barring Trump WILL BE Reversed - podcast episode cover

WE'RE BACK! Analyzing Why Colorado & Maine Decisions Barring Trump WILL BE Reversed

Jan 01, 202436 minEp. 327
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Speaker 1

Well, let me first start off by saying, Happy New Year. Welcome to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Senator, Happy New Year's to you and your family. It's nice we had a little time off during the holidays, and I know you got to spend some great time with your family and and your kids, and I know you got some pretty good Christmas gifts as well. So Merry Christmas to you your family, and happy New Year as well.

We have got a lot to chat about that has been happening, and let's start with this story Democrats trying to kick Donald Trump off the ballot in Colorado, in Maine, and this has been unfolding really over the holidays.

Speaker 2

Well, Ben, good to be back with you. Happy New Year. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and a wonderful New Years. And we are starting now twenty twenty four. I will say, looking back over twenty twenty three, what an absolute dumpster fire of a year, A what a mess it has been, What a disaster it's been on the southern border, an an absolute assault it's been on

the rule of law. Donald Trump indicted four different times as Democrats engage in law fair, trying to fight through the courts what they cannot beat at the at the ballot box. I have to say the decisions in Colorado and Maine are the most grotesque assaults on democracy that I have ever seen in my life. You know, there is an irony. There's an irony with leftists. They always, always, always accuse you of the thing it is they are

in fact doing. It has become this ostentatious virtue signal for anyone on the left to say, we must defend democracy, we must save democracy. Usually they flick their hair back and let the wind blow their hair in the bit as they are saving democracy. And yet we see partisan democrats directly attacking democracy. What is democracy? Democracy is a process through which the people vote and their wishes are enacted. Now, technically speaking, we're not a democracy. We're a democratic republic.

In other words, the voters vote to elect representatives, hence the republic. But we are built on democratic principles, which is that the will of the people is sovereign. And what the Democrats have done in both Colorado and in Maine is said, to hell with the voters. We don't care about democracy, We don't care what the voters want. We know better. We hate Donald Trump so much the voters are not allowed to vote for him. That is

it's never happened in our nation's history. It is a level of partisanship and weaponization and cynicism and abuse of power that is truly unprecedented, and it is also legally frivolous. I'm here to tell you right now, these decisions will be reversed. I put the odds at these decisions being reversed at one hundred percent. When we get to November of this year, if Donald Trump is the Republican nominee,

his name will be on the ballot. Donald Trump's name will be on the primary ballot in every state, and no partisan Democrat is going to succeed in removing his name from the ballot and keeping it off. That is my prediction right now. I believe the US Supreme Court will take this case. I think they will overturn, they will reverse the Colorado decision. I think they will do so swiftly, and I think there is a very real possibility they do so unanimously. I hope they do so unanimously.

I don't know if the left leaning judges on the Court would be willing to do so, but they should.

It would be the right thing to do. And I think there's a reasonable prospect that we get a nine zero decision from the US Supreme Court reversing the Colorado decision and making clear that if you don't like Donald Trump, the answer is go beat him at the ballot box, not go to your friendly Democrat in your pocket secretary of state, just to pull them off the ballot and prevent the voters from voting for him.

Speaker 3

Which brings us to Maine.

Speaker 1

And let's talk about Main's Democratic secretary of state.

Speaker 3

You talk about being friendly.

Speaker 1

She actually tweeted out at one point back in January the fourth of twenty twenty two, so two years ago. In essence, the fundamental right of any American citizen to vote freely, fairly, and to have their vote counted is the premise of our democracy. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are not values to be compromised away, and that is what she tweeted out. Now, what's shocking about this is we've now found out more about this Democrat secretary of State number one. She is not elected by

the people, She's elected by the legislature. And explain a little bit about because there's been some people that have been saying, like this woman wasn't even elected by the people.

Speaker 3

That's how they do it in Maine.

Speaker 1

But she also the reason why she said she wanted to take Trump off the ballot was mainly from what she described in the filings as from being from utube videos.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Look, different states select secretaries of state differently. Some states the voters elect the secretary of states. Other states, in Texas, for example, the governor appoints the secretary of state, so the secretary of State in Texas is not elected. The secretary of state is appointed by the governor. In Maine, they have a rather odd hybrid system where the state legislature elects the secretary of state. Now, the legislature elected her. Shenna Bellows is her name. She's a Democrat. She's a

partisan Democrat. She was the executive director of the ACLU in Maine. And actually, interestingly, she's not a lawyer. She doesn't have a law degree, she had never been to law school. And she purported to make a definitive determination of what the Constitution of what the fourteenth Amendment, Section three means, what it holds, and make a determination that Donald Trump has engaged in insurrection. That decision will not stand. She didn't follow anything resembling due process that any court

of law would recognize. And I think what the next step will be that this is being challenged in Maine state court, it goes to a main trial court initially, and then it could be appealed to the main Supreme Court. I think there's a very good chance the main trial court reverses it. I don't know the particular judge it will be in front of, but the right decision would be to reverse of the main trial court. But what's

really going to decide this is the Colorado appeal. If I am right, that the Supreme Court will take the Colorado case and they will decide it quickly, that determination is going to be conclusive on me as well.

Speaker 1

So when you look at where this is moving forward, and I want to talk to politics of this for a second, what this seems to be is Democrats moving to what I describe as phase two of their radical you know, get rid of our constitution, our freedoms, our democracy, as she described, quoting her the fundamental rights of any American citizens to vote freely, fairly and have their vote counted.

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 1

It is the core premise of our democracy. Except if you go back twenty sixteen, Senator, look at what Democrats did. They try to overthrow the will of the people by impeaching Donald Trump using a dossier they knew was created by the Democrats. It was paid for by the Democrat National Committee and paid for by Hillary Clinton's campaign.

Speaker 3

That's a fact, undisputed fact. We know that now.

Speaker 1

In fact, they were even fined for misappropriating money with how they paid for that dossier. Democrats that were trying to impeach the president then because they didn't like who the people chose, knew they were impeaching the president off of off of basically a story that they created out of thin air. So now that didn't work, they move on to phase two, which is, all right, well, we can't trust that you're going to pick the candidate that we approve of, so we're going to take that candidate

off the ballot. This seems to be phase two of this juncture now, which is all right, forget the past, the impeachment. We're going to get rid of your guy even before you have a chance to vote for him. And this is happening in dozens of states around the country they're looking to do the same thing. How concerning should we be as voters that this is literally that slippery slope.

Speaker 2

Look that this is utterly brazen, and it's the full manifestation of a pattern that has been unfolding for years. And as you know, I talk about it at length in the last two books I wrote. I wrote a year ago, I wrote a book called Justice Corrupted, How the Left has weaponized the legal system. That breaks down in detail how the radical left turned our legal system into an offensive weapon to try to attack their political

opponents and destroy their political opponents. And then my latest book that just came out in the last couple of months is called Unwoke, How to Defeat Cultural Marxism in America, and it likewise describes how the cultural Marxists have seized the institutions of our government, the institutions of culture, journalism, education, colleges K through twelve, education, entertainment, sports, science, it goes

through all of them. If you look at government under Barack Obama, we saw the federal government weaponized against the enemies of the White House. Under Barack Obama, the IRS began attacking conservatives and tea party groups. Under Barack Obama, the FBI, of the DOJ, and the CIA began to be weaponized to attack their political enemies. But then when Donald Trump got elected, it shattered the brains of leftists. They did not imagine that that was even remote possible.

It could not happen. They were certain that Hillary was going to be anointed, was going to be coronated, and they would continue that their control, their stranglehold on the federal government when the voters had something different to say about it. When the voter said no, we don't want that and elected Donald Trump, we saw for four years. You want to talk about assaults on democracy, we saw number one right after the election, multiple Democrats object to

the certification of Donald Trump. So, by the way, every Democrat, every media person who says it's an insurrection, it's an insurrection because they objected to the election ignores the fact that the Democrats had objected in two thousand and one, had objected in two thousand and five, and had objected in twenty seventeen. Every time a Republican had been elected

in the two thousands, Democrats had objected. They'd done the same thing, but not only that, and By the way, one of the objectors was Jamie Raskin, ironically one of the impeachment managers. He himself was claiming that it was an insurrection when he had in fact objected on the floor of the House to Trump's first election as president. But if you look at what the DOJ and the FBI and the CIA and the alphabet soup of a federal agencies did when Trump was president, it was an

assault on democracy. Why is that, Well, democracy says that the voters get to choose, and the voters elected Donald Trump in twenty sixteen. But yet the hard partisans who had burrowed into senior career positions at DOJ and the FBI and the rest of the agencies, they hated Trump, and they spent four years trying to undermine, trying to attack, trying to destroy the democratically elected president of the United States. That is an assault on democracy. That is reflecting a

contempt for democratic values. That is saying, I, the career bureaucrat, know better who the president should be than the pesky voter, and I'm going to abuse my government power to try to destroy the officeholder that the voters elected. Well, that angry hateful lashing out that we saw in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, that we saw with Russia Russia Russia, that we saw with the Steele dossier,

that we saw with the relentless attack. The newest manifestation is what is happening in Colorado and what is happening in Maine. If you look at Colorado, the Colorado Supreme Court has seven members, all Democrats. They've been appointed by Democrat governors in Colorado. Interestingly, it was a four to three decision from the Colorado Supreme Court. The four justices who were in the majority none of them went to school in Colorado. They all went to Harvard and Yale.

The three justices who went to law school in Colorado all dissented, and it shows you something about just how radicalized the elite schools been. Actually, one of those four justices is a woman I went to law school with. I was on the law review with her. I knew her well, she was a partisan Democrat then. But I got to say where she and her three other liberal justices are now is breathtaking, because they are saying, we

don't care what the voters want in Colorado. Secretary of State in Maine is saying, I don't care what the voters want in Maine. I hate Trump so much you cannot vote for him. That has no precedent in our nation's history.

Speaker 1

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Speaker 3

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I want to dive into this. More Democrats and they don't get their win election day, then they try to impeach a conservative. Then if then another can it comes out they find threatening. Now they're just going to try to take them off the ballot. If that doesn't work and the Supreme Court, you know, shuts it down nine to zero or eight to one or whatever seven to two, then I think we can all agree Stage three would

be okay. Well, the next time we have a chance to pack that court, which is what you warned about in your book. Then we're just going to pack the court until we get the votes we need so then we can kick people off ballots anywhere we went to in America.

Speaker 2

Am I crazy to think that's where we're going. You're not crazy, and it is exactly where we're going. The Democrats, they believe the ends justify the means. They have convinced themselves Donald Trump is Hitler, and therefore, in order to stop Hitler, anything, anything, anything is justified and destroying norms, destroying the principle that the voters decide elections, that's perfectly okay from their perspective. Destroying the rule of law, destroying

the Supreme Court. Look, you've seen Merrick Garland and the Department of Justice and Democrats in the Senate wage war on the US Supreme Court, trying to delegitimize the court, trying to destroy trust because they don't like the rulings coming from the court, and it's perfectly acceptable. They apparently have no compunction, No tiny voice in them says, well, maybe our country is worse off. They don't have that voice,

they don't respond to it. Instead, they're willing to do whatever it takes because they they're convinced with a messianic zeal It's a zealotry that is reminiscent of the fervor of a religious zealate, of a fanatic. It has become their life purpose to hate and attack Donald Trump and to destroy every institution in America if necessary, to stop Donald Trump.

Speaker 1

When this news broke of Main's top elective official removing Trump from the twenty twenty four primary ballot, the shocking part was in the devil in the details of the decision on why they decided to do it. They of course said, oh, what was January the sixth insurrection? But they actually cited YouTube videos, which is one of the reasons want to kick him off the ballot. And even on CNN they couldn't get this past their own commentators who said this listen carefully.

Speaker 4

An interesting discussion, an interesting take from the main Secretary of State. Here, the fourteenth Amendment, section three says in playing texts that if you shall have engaged in insurrection, you can't be in office. She takes that to mean that if she determines a Donald Trump engage in insurrection, he can't be on the main primary ballot. Is it that simple.

Speaker 3

No, it's not that simple.

Speaker 5

So clearly Section three of the Fourteenth Amendment says, engage in insurrection, you're out.

Speaker 3

We all have that.

Speaker 5

The complicated part, and where we are going to see this play out in the courts is who gets to decide and buy what process. Now it's important to know. And in the ruling the Secretary of State we just heard from says she's basically following the same legal reasoning as the Colorado Supreme Court did last week. And she says in her ruling, if this gets struck down in Colorado, we're out of luck too. So she's facing it on

the same legal argument. Let me sort of lay out the arguments both sides, and by the way, it's worth saying, we're all theorizing here, we're in legally unknown territory. The argument against is, first of all, the Fourteenth Amendment, Section five says Congress has the authority to pass laws to implement this. They did, they passed the criminal law. And

the argument is that means Congress, not the States. But perhaps and this is the argument that the main secretary of State in Colorado made, the states can do it too. If that's true. Then Section two. Question two is we're the processes? Were these hearings fair? Did they comport with due process? And I think there's a question there with regard to what Maine did because if you look at the hearing, and she details us in the ruling, they

heard from one fact witness, a law professor. She based her ruling on a lot of documents, but also YouTube clips.

Speaker 1

I mean, senator, also YouTube clips and one one witness who is a law professor. I'm going to gotten a limb here and say it's probably a liberal law professor they found to make the argument. And so now that's enough that we can just say, yep, you can't vote for you the candidate you want to choose that the Republican Party chooses, because we think it's a threat to the Democratic parties. So therefore you don't have the option. Like this is the world we live in now in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2

Four, you know. And it's interesting that that legal commentator on CNN is very liberal, but even he is saying this is ridiculous. Look the text of the fourteenth Amendments,

Section three, here's what it says. It says, quote, no person shall be a senator or representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office civil or military under the United States or under any State, who having previously taken an oath as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution

of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid and comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two thirds of each House, remove such disability. Now, this was passed right in the wake of the Civil War, and it was designed to stop people who had fought the Confederate Army from serving in government office. That if you had been part of an army waging war a civil war. Look, at the end of the day, the

Civil War killed over six hundred thousand Americans. It was a war that waged on for four years. It was the bloodiest war in American history. And the fourteenth Amendment concluded if you were a Confederates soul, you were not going to be a senator, a congressman. You were not going to be president. You were not going to be a federal officer. That was written into law. Now it is.

It defies reason, logic, and facts to suggest that Donald Trumps standing up and giving a speech on January sixth, in which he urged people to be peaceful not to be violent, was somehow equivalent to leading a brigade in the Civil War and fighting a war, by the way, insurrection. So the central question here is whether or not Donald Trump is guilty of engaging an insurrection. Now, we don't entirely have to theorize on this. Actually, the United States

Congress has defined insurrection. So there is a statute. The statute is eighteen usc. Section two three eight three. It is entitled rebellion or insurrection. Here's the definition of it. Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort there too, shall be fined under this title or in prison not more than ten years, or both, and shall be incapable

of holding any office under the United States. So this is defined, and it's defined specifically with regard to the Fourteenth Amendment that if you're convicted of this under the terms of the statute, you're disqualified under the fourteenth Amendment. Now, interestingly enough, Jack Smith is literally trying to throw the book at Donald Trump. He has brought two different indictments, one in Florida, one in DC. Jack Smith is javert. He is pursuing Jean Valjean, and he will not stop

no matter what. Jack Smith is demonstrated that he is not constrained by the bounds of law when he went after Bob MacDonald, the Republican governor of Virginia, when he indicted him up destroying his political career. That ended up being reversed unanimously by the Supreme Court nine to nothing, actually eight to nothing because one of the justices was recused. But the fact that it was lawless did not stop Jack Smith. Well, you know what, Jack Smith has not

indicted Donald Trump under eighteen USC. Section two three eighty three. He has not charged him with insurrection. Donald Trump is not charged with insurrection in any court of law anywhere in the country. And there is a reason even a rapidly partisan obsessed prosecutor like Jack Smith, even in an incredibly friendly venue like the District of Columbia with a very left wing judge and with a jury pool that

voted ninety four percent Democrat. Even there, Jack Smith and his team no doubt concluded, we don't have the evidence to charge Trump with insurrection. Now what did the main secretary of state say?

Speaker 3

Ah?

Speaker 2

Evidence, schme evidence. I look at a YouTube video, I you know what. Gosh, everyone on TV says insurrection. It must be an insurrection because every Democrat I know screams insurrection when they look at Trump. It is a lawless determination. And that's why. That's one of the many reasons why I believe the Supreme Court will reverse the Colorado Supreme Court. And as I said, I think there's a very good chance they'll do so unanimously.

Speaker 1

All Right, So let's move into the politics and the timing of this year. We're very close now to getting into the primaries. We're talking about Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina Center. You know this map and this calendar and how important it is when you ran for president. And this could linger on with this over Donald Trump's head, with state after state trying to kick him off the ballot. How long could we have to wait until the Supreme

Court gets involved. And then how long would we have to wait for the ruling for this to come down? Are we weeks or months? How long could this? How does this play out the Supreme Court? Well, the appeal is already penning at the Supreme Court. So last week, last Wednesday, the Colorado Republican Party asked the Supreme Court to overturn the Colorado Supreme Court's decision so that the

initial appeal papers have been filed. In the interim, Trump's name is on the ballot and in Colorado, and that was under the terms of the Colorado Supreme Court decision, which which is it? They stayed their own decision pending appeal. They recognized the massive consequences of it. So the primary in Colorado is on March fifth, and so right now Trump's name is on the March fifth ballot. With the appeal filed, the court could act exceptionally quickly. The Court

could act in a matter of days or weeks. And there are times for emergency appeals that the Court's schedules are very expedited, briefing schedule, schedules, oral arguments, and issued a decision.

Speaker 2

I hope they do that. Look, there's a chance they take their time and let it lay out, because the Colorado Supreme Court decision is stayed, and so they could say, well, look, he's going to be on the ballot. So there's no urgency or exigency. And by the way, in Maine, there's a good chance the main courts overturned the main Secretary of State's decision. If that happens, then there is no immediate threat to the voters being denied the ability to

elect the candidate of their choice. I hope the Court doesn't slow down or doesn't take their time doing it. I hope they resolve this quickly. I think it's important to have clarity nationally. But the court has the ability. There are times where it has briefed and heard argument and issued decisions within a matter of days, so it has the ability to move very quickly. During Bush versus Gore, during those thirty six days when we had multiple recounts in Florida, as your recall, I was part of the

legal team that was litigating Bush versus Gore. I was down in Tallahassee representing George W.

Speaker 3

Bush.

Speaker 2

In those thirty six days, we went to the US Supreme Court twice and within that period briefed out the case, had oral argument, and had decisions two different times from the US Supreme Court within those thirty six days. So when the court wants to, it can move exceptionally fast. I would note also that between the two look in terms of the general election, the odds are not great

that Colorado is going to be a swing state. Joe Biden won Colorado by about fourteen points last time, and so it's Colorado is not anticipated to be a swing state in November. Maine, interestingly enough, is so Maine has an unusual way of allocating its electoral votes. Maine has a total of four electoral votes, and two of them go to the winner of the state, and then one goes to the winner of one congressional district goes to the winner of another congressional district. So Maine has two

congressional districts. What's interesting about that is, even though Maine has been a reliably Democrat state in presidential elections for some time, one of the two congressional districts in Maine quite regularly will vote for Republicans, and so Trump one one electoral vote out of Maine. He added one of the districts he won the other three he lost, and that could easily happen again. And listen, if this election was quite close, it could literally come down to that

single electoral vote in Maine deciding the outcome. And so the decision in Maine is quite consequential. It's also consequential going forward. Do other states, in particular swing states make the same determination. Do you see bigger states a Pennsylvania, a Michigana, Wisconsin. Do you see states like that that are very much in play, that very much could go either way? Do you see them engage and try to

follow this pattern? And if these left wing partisans were to succeed in removing Trump from the ballot, I think the risk would be very high that you would see other bigger and more consequential swing states following that pattern. Now, I don't think that's going to happen because they're not going to succeed. And by the way, there's an obvious

escalation at some point. If the left weaponizes the legal system to such an extent that they try to remove the Republican nominee from the general election ballot, you are likely to see red states reciprocate and try to remove the Democrat nominee from the ballot that this can be a mutually assured destruction, which is one of the reasons I don't think there's any chance the Supreme Court allows this Colorado decision to go into effect because it undermines

the ability of the voters to choose who they want as president, and that is as foundational to democracy in our country as anything there is.

Speaker 1

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dot com or eight seven seven the number four GOLDRA. Finally, on this, there's the political ramifications of this. There's a lot of conservative voters now that are very upset. I've heard from more people that are not necessarily big fans of Donald Trump that are now, like, the hell with this, I'm gonna stand behind Donald Trump because this is just

so egregious. Do you think the Democrats overplayed their hand here politically and the backfire could be catastrophic to them, or by the time we get to election, will a lot of this just be forgotten.

Speaker 2

Well, I think politically this benefits Trump in the primary. You know, rewind go back to our early podcasts last year when the first Trump indictment, when the Alvin Bragg indictment came down, You and I went on air, and right after that indictment, I went on this podcast and I told the podcast viewers, I said, Donald Trump will go up ten points in the polls as a result of this. That was a prediction I made immediately after

the indictment came down. A week later, Donald Trump was up ten points in the polls, and by the way, he's never come down since. If you look at a year ago, the poll numbers had a much more competitive race between Trump and Dessantus a year ago, and then the first indictment came, and then the second, and then the third, and then the fourth, and Trump's numbers went up and up and up, and everyone else's numbers went down. And I think one of the effects is in a

Republican primary, people rallied around Trump. Look when the Colorado Supreme Court decision came down, all of Trump's opponents immediately denounced it, which you had to do.

Speaker 3

It.

Speaker 2

It was a lawless abuse of power. I also think the Democrats are quite fond of that. Every single Democrat in elected office wants Trump to be the nominee. But at the same time, so they are happy with helping Trump in the primary because that's the outcome they want in the general. Assuming this Colorado decision is overturned, assuming the main decision is overturned, it could backfire. You could

see some independent swing voters get ticked off. In a state like Maine that has independence that might have some lasting legacy, in a state like Colorado that has some independence that might have some impact as well. I have not seen any evidence that this ABUSEI of power is hurting Democrats in a general election. It may be the case, but one of the challenges is that the media is so utterly corrupt that they're by and large not reporting

on it. But I would tell listeners a verdict. Anytime you're talking with leftists who are arguing and they're trotting out language like we must save democracy, you know, it's a great opportunity to say, oh, save democracy, you mean like Colorado, like Maine, Like preventing the voters from actually voting for the candidate they want to vote for explain to me how exactly it's saving democracy to stop the voters from voting for the candidate they want to vote for.

And I don't know of a leftist who can argue against that other than to just jabber, you know, Trump is evil, Trump is evil. Trump is evil, rather than actually engage in reason and logic. And so I'm not convinced this abuse of power will have a massive ish impact on turnout in November, but I do think it helps Trump in the primaries.

Speaker 3

It's going to be a very interesting twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1

Obviously we are going cover it all for you here on Verdict, and Happy New Year to you and your family, every one of you the listening, don't forget to hit that subscribe.

Speaker 3

Button, that auto download button are on Apple.

Speaker 1

The follow button is the algorithms have changed a lot at the end of this year, so make sure you check and see if you have follow. If you're listening on Apple, share this podcast on social media wherever you are. Will We are looking forward to bring you a lot of information. This is going to be a very active year, so thank you for spending time with us on your new year.

Speaker 3

Happy New Year to each and every one of your center.

Speaker 1

Happy New Year to you as well, and I know you want to say to all the listeners again, Happy New Years to them.

Speaker 2

Happy New Year, and May twenty twenty four be an extraordinary year for our nation. May God bless you and your family, and may God continue to bless the United States of America.

Speaker 3

We'll see you back here on Wednesday morning.

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