Senator going to be with you in person this week. For everyone listening, we do one of our shows a week, usually on video, so you can watch this on YouTube or on x or on Facebook. Make sure you follow us there, make sure you foll us on YouTube, and you can watch this episode as well. I want to get in first into the big news. As we got here to film this, Ron DeSantis not only did he
drop out, but he's endorsed Donald Trump for president. Your initial reaction to that is that the right decision, the right time to do it early on.
Well, listen, it is big news. I will say, it's not surprising you. And I talked about this in our pod last week. As you know last week, I endorsed Donald Trump immediately following the Iowa caucus. And the reason I did that is the results of the Iowa caucus were clear. They were decisive. And what I said that next day is this primary is over, Donald Trump will be the Republican nominee. I thought that was clear from the results of Iowa. DeSantis. It was clear that DeSantis
was going to drop out. We didn't know that it would necess be on Sunday, but we knew it would be soon. He did not have a path going forward. He did not have a path to victory. He recognized that once you don't have a path to victory, I think the right thing to do is to drop out.
That's what he did.
At this point, it is a two person race between Trump and Nicky Haley, and we've got the New Hampshire primary coming up right now. As I said, I think this primary is over, but New Hampshire might represent a speedbump. New Hampshire over history has at times been contrary. Haley and Donald Trump are polling basically neck and neck in New Hampshire. I think it is entirely possible we see a close outcome in New Hampshire. I don't think it
is impossible that Nicky Haley wins New Hampshire. She's within two points of him right now. But whether it is close, or whether Haley wins New Hampshire, or whether Trump wins New Hampshire, I don't think it makes the Hill of Beans of difference. If Trump win, the race is over that instant. If Haley wins, the race is over shortly thereafter, because after New Hampshire the race moves on to South Carolina. Nikki Haley is a former governor of South Carolina. But
Trump has a dominating lead in South Carolina. Trump is going to win South Carolina by double digits.
And that hurts her more, you think, because it is her home state. It's kind of like what Al Gore loss Tennessee, for example. If you lose your home state, it's not gonna go well for.
You well, and especially in a primary. Remember Gore lost Tennessee in the general election, so there was nothing to happen after that. In this instance, losing your home state in a primary is crushing. You need to be able to win your home state. I don't see any way that Nicky Haley is going to win South Carolina. And right after South Carolina are the Super Primary, the Super Tuesday states that are predominantly Southern states. In all of those,
Trump has a big, big lead. What we've got plan out right now is Nicky Hayley has become the moderate establishment candidate. So anyone typically in a Republican presidential primary, about thirty percent of the voters self identified self identify as establishment moderates. That means seventy percent do not. At this point, Nicky is clearly owning the establishment moderate lane and part of the reason why it is possible that she wins in New Hampshire is New Hampshire's estate that
has a lot of independence. Now, independence in New Hampshire can vote in either primary. They can show up on primary day and say I want to vote Democrat or I want to vote Republican, and so they can choose that day, and so independence can really influence the outcome of the New Hampshire primary. This weekend, the Boston Globe had a big editorial urging independence, do not vote in the Democrat primary, show up vote in the Republican primary.
Operation chaos.
Basically, well, no, no, but it's very specific, and vote for Nicki Haley beat Donald Trump is what the Boston Globe, and the Boston Globe says. We don't like Nicki Haley, yeah, but we hate Donald Trump. And so particularly if you see a bunch of Independents showing up in order to defeat Trump. That could happen in one state, but beyond that, I don't see any any path going forward for Haley or anyone to beat Trump.
Let's talk about the Sanders for a moment, dropping out and what happens his voters in New Hampshire there are some that might be frustrated their guys out.
Does a majority of them.
Go historically to the underdog there because you're mad that you had your guy dropped out because the guy who's in the lead aka Donald Trump. Talk about the psychological aspect of voters and what happens historically there.
So I have not seen the polling in New Hampshire of who Desantus's people lists their second choice, and that's among more sophisticated polling. You at people, all right, your first choices is Ben Ferguson, Who's your second choice? Mickey Mouse? Okay, so you write those down. My supposition, so Dessantus was about six percent in New Hampshire. He was not gonna do well in New Hampshire. That's part of the reason Ron didn't have a path. He was gonna get crushed
in New Hampshire. Then he was gonna go to South Carolina and get crushed in South Carolina, and then he was gonna go on to the Super Tuesday states and get crushed, including getting crushed in his home state of Florida. And so they're just as you looked at the calendar and said, well, what state can he win? There wasn't an answer to that, which is why why this decision
was made. You know, in terms of where the roughly six percent in New Hampshire voters go that we're going to vote for him, my guess is that more of them go to Trump than go to Hayley. I don't know that, But you've got kind of twin factors. If you're just making up positions on one factor. Look DeSantis as a candidate based on his record, there's much more of an ideological overlap with Trump. DeSantis was running as
a pretty trumpy candidate. It was basically sure Trump without the baggage was to the extent there was a Dessatus message that was it.
You and I talked about this.
If you put them on stage and you went through one hundred concerned issues there and said raizor hand, if you agree with this or disagreed, they would probably have matched up about ninety nine out of.
One hundred, and so the voters who were with DeSantis tend to agree with Trump on the issues Down the line. However, some of the voters with DeSantis are people who just didn't like Trump and decided DeSantis was the strongest alternative. So if you're a voter who doesn't like Trump, presumably you go to Nicki Haley. If you're a voter who is ideologically aligned and stylistically aligned with Trump and Dessantis,
you presumably go to Trump. My guess is of the six percent, four percent goes to Trump and two goes to Haley. That's that's that's just pulling out of the air. But notionally, those would be the reasons that that would happen.
All right, let's go back to your victory for a second. That was a life changing moment politically for you. Can we talk strategy just for a second there? What was your strategy and remind people what the issues were during that election with Donald Trump? It was I mean, that was a that was a just bloodbath. There was a
lot of punches that were being swung. There was a lot of negative media and I'm talking about media stories and accusations and absurd things that I could have never imagined when it hit in that race and all of a sudden, it was all there and you came out with that victory. When did you think you were going to win?
That?
Was there a day or two before? When you thought we have the edge?
Was it a week before, so on the weekend, all of the public polling showed Trump was going to win Iowa, and all the public polling was wrong. I can tell you my polling on the campaign showed we were going to win Iowa, and my polling, I think, was one point off. And that was consistent throughout the twenty sixteen campaign. Our internal polls were almost exactly where our numbers were, and so we knew where we were. We ran a very very data driven campaign. Listen, twenty sixteen was a
race where there were seventeen Republican candidates. It was a very crowded field, and those seventeen candidates, it was a very strong field.
The level of debate then was at a level that I don't think we've had in a long time in politics. And that's one of the things that I loved about that campaign was you did have a lot of brilliant minds on stage. I kind of missed that there was a level of debate that I thought was good for the country on issues.
Did you enjoy that?
Loved every second of every minute of every day. It was incredible, It was breathtaking, It was all consuming. It was most fun I've ever had in my life.
Can I ask an insight baseball question there?
Rubio, if he would have dropped out before South Carolina, what did y'all's polling show?
Then Trump would have still won South Carolina, but it would have been would have been much closer. And and Rubio later on, Rubio state in the race for a long time and cuts support away from me. And and so you know, if you fast forward Super Tuesday and before the Florida primary, we polled at the time, what happened if Rubio and I ran together as a ticket? One ended up happening. I ended up winning twelve states?
Uh?
Trump won at the time, it was something like twenty three states, and no other candidate won more than a single state. So Kasik won Ohio, Rubio one Minnesota, and Trump and I won every other state. Uh. We did poll at the time right before Florida, what happens if Rubio drops out and if Rubio joins me? And our poll numbers showed that my support jumped double digits. Wow, And I think it would have changed the outcome If Marco had done that. I think it is quite likely
the outcome would have changed. But he didn't. And so what ended up happening is even though I won twelve states, at the end of the day, Trump had too big a lead and it essentially took too long for the rest of the field to consolidate. That Rubia stuck around a long time, Casik stuck around a long time. They couldn't win anywhere, but they could suck votes away from me, and they did, and that they're sticking around played a pivotal part in Trump's winning the nomination in sixteen.
For ten years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. And when I say only, I mean it, they are the only one. Patriot Mobile is a fabulous supporter of this show, which is why I'm proud to partner with him, and I have been now.
For all almost a decade.
Patriot Mobile offers you, as a conservative two things that are going to be very important. Number one, dependable nationwide coverage giving you the ability to access all of the major network towers that you're using right now, which means you get the same coverage that you've been accustomed to.
But the most important thing is without funding the left.
Now, when I say fund the left, you may say, what do you mean you may not realize just how much Big Mobile actually hates you and your family values, your faith, and how much they're giving to planned parenthood.
That's why I switch to Patriot Mobile. And when I look down at my phone, I see Patriot up in the upper left hand corner, and I know that every time that I'm sending a message, every time I'm on that phone, I am supporting with my dollars an organization that supports free speech, religious freedom, the sancty of life, Second Amendment, as well as our military veterans and first responder heroes.
They have a one hundred.
Percent US based customer service team which makes switching easy. I just had to switch over a phone the other day. It was easy. When I say easy, I mean easy. You get to keep your same cell phone number you have right now. You can keep your same phone you have in your hand or upgrade it to a new one, and their team will help you find the best plan for your needs. Now, when you pay your bill, that's
when the real magic happens. They take a percentage of that bill at no cost to you, and they give it back to the conservative causes that I just mentioned. So you're making a difference and standing with your values instead of giving your money to.
Companies that literally hate what you believe in.
So make the switch by going to Patriot mobile dot com slash verdict. That's Patriot Mobile dot com slash verdict, or call them nine to seven to Patriot.
That's nine seven to two Patriot.
Get free activation when you use the promo code verdict. Join me and make the switch today patriotmobile dot com slash verdict. That's Patriot Mobile dot com slash verdict or nine to seven to two Patriot. All right, let's talk about dropping out, and I want you to kind of pull back the curtain, yep, because DeSantis just went through this gut wrenching moment. I think in politics people to
understand how hard is not when you're running president. I think on just you, your family, your friends, your supporters, the people that are writing checks. It is one of the worst moments watching a candidate half decide how to drop out, when to drop out, where to do it, being good stewards of their supporters and their dollars that you're continuingly asking them to give. When you were looking at the idea of dropping out, how did that go down?
Did you talk to a larger group of people. First, did you talk to donors, and then a smaller group, did you talk to your campaign staff? And then did you talk to your family? What was that cycle? How did that look like to make that decision, Because obviously DeSantis had to deal with that, and now there's a lot of people calling for Nicki Haley to get out. I don't think she's going to get out anytime soon, and so what does that decision look like when you were having to go through it.
Well, listen, almost everyone drops out for the same reason they go broke. What drives you out of a campaign is when you're no longer able to raise the money to keep the lights on, when you're no longer able to raise the money to run any ads, when you're no longer able to raise the money to pay your campaign staff, when you're no longer able to raise the money to fly to the next campaign event. That's what
drives people out. It's also a reason a lot of campaigns are terrible at budgeting, and they blow a lot of money fast and early, and they go broke. And so you have a lot of candidates who drop out before a single voter's cast, to drop out before Iowa happens, and so marshaling the money. One of the reasons DeSantis I'm not surprised that he dropped out is he was
going broke and nobody would write him a check. At this point, when he's gotten crushed in Iowa and there's not a state coming up that he had any prayer of winning, it becomes impossible to raise money. Both large money you're calling donors and ask him to max out and no one to write a check. Then if they don't think you can win, your money disappears. But little donors, people giving five dollars or ten dollars, they don't do
that either. If they don't believe you have a chance at victory, that dynamic is inevitably the case you also haven't. And look, it's worth underscoring believing you can win. If your supporters believe you can win, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. So for example, we came out of the first three states I want Iowa, Trump won New Hampshire and South Carolina. We then went forward. We had had Super Tuesday. I ended up on Super Tuesday. Trump won
seven states. I won three, So I won Oklahoma, Maine, and Texas and Texas was a big deal a lot of delegates. I want a big double digit victory in Texas.
Other win Texas than three or four other smaller states in the same day.
Yes, but winning Oklahoma and that's the day Rubio one Minnesota that so that was his one victory. But winning those three states is what made it at that point a two man race, as I established myself as the principal alternative to Trump at this point if you fast forward from there. So there was a three week period in March and April when I won five consecutive primaries by double digits. I won Utah, North Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Wisconsin,
all three of those played. All five of those played out over three consecutive weeks, and I won all of them by double digits, big crushing victories. Normally, when that happens, there's a narrative of the parties uniting, coming together. Whether you're winning, you're uniting different factions of the party. Wisconsin, for example, was that it was an enormous victory. You
look at Wisconsin, Wisconsin. The knock that the media tried to do on me was the same knock they did on Hackabe and centaorum, which is he's an evangelical niche candidate that just just appeals in small circles. I never thought that was a very very accurate characterization. Yes, I am a Christian, and that is a big part of who I am, but I'm a very different person than Mike Cockabe or rec Centaurum. Wisconsin is one of the least evangelical states in the country. Wisconsin is a purple state.
Wisconsin is a blue collar state. Wisconsin is a union state. Wisconsin is a working class state. And so under conventional narratives, I should have gotten crushed in Wisconsin. I ended up winning decisively in Wisconsin. I won very conservatives, I won somewhat conservatives. I want women, I won men, I won young people, I won Reagan Democrats. It was a thirteen point victory in Wisconsin.
What was the issue there that made that difference.
I campaigned on my record that I had a strong, proven record of fighting for conservative principles, fighting for jobs, fighting for the Constitution, and that proven record resonated. What happened subsequently, however, is the next week was the New York Primary. Now the New York primary is Donald Trump's home state. The New York primary also is a difficult primary.
For one thing, New York has a curious way of doing primaries, and that they have a different party, the Conservative Party, so that many of the more conservative New York voters are not actually in the Republican Party, they're in the Conservative Party. And listen, one would expect Trump to win his home state. He did, won New York decisively. New York is also where most of the national and corporate media is headquartered.
So they loved it.
And so for the media, they obsessed on that, and what ended up happening. We saw a forty eight hour time period where the relentless media coverage was the race is over. Trump is won, he can't be beaten, he can't be beaten, he can't be beaten. Despite we just had five double digit victories in a row in a row consecutively. The media just flooded the zone with the message the race is over, and we saw our numbers plummet. So the next week was Pennsylvania before the New York primary.
Trump and I were tied in Pennsylvania. After the New York primary, when the media hammered the races over, the race is over, we dropped double digits. Our people gave up. They said, you just can't win. That effect, and so I can tell you for DeSantis. Once your people believe you can't win, they don't show up. Yeah, they don't work, they don't make phone calls, they don't give money.
They get yard signs, they don't do all the things that a campaign desperately needs.
It just takes. So coming out of Wisconsin, the polling in California, I was leading Trump significantly in California. Interesting until the media just broke our back with the races, over the races, over the races, over Trump has one, Trump is one, Trump is one, and the media made that a self fulfilling prophecy. And so we saw my last primary was Indiana and Indiana the relentless media coverage and it actually it was quantified. Trump got three billion dollars in free media that cycle.
And so my campaign, by the way, I think you should say that again because I think people forget this read billion with a B, and so people understand how we do this in the political world when're running campaign, there's earned media, there's there's there's free media, and there's news cycles. He just played to some people's advantage. Donald Trump just sucked the free media out of the every room.
And there was no precedent for it. So in twenty sixteen, my campaign raised ninety two million dollars. It was the most money any Republican had ever raised in the history of presidential primaries, more than George W. Bush or John McCain or Mitt Romney. And that came from one point six million contributions all over the country. Ninety two million dollars is a crap ton of money, yeah, unless you have three billion dollars dollars on the other end. And
it actually was quantified. The last thirty days of the campaign. Donald Trump got five hundred million dollars in free media. This is during the primary, the last thirty days, five hundred million dollars. Wow, over ninety percent of it was positive. Basically the last thirty days, the media just said it's over. It's over. It's over, it's over. And the floor collapsed on all of our numbers. Our people gave up. The
media convinced them it was over. And once they convinced them it was over, it was so Dessantus is in the same place. His people had abandoned hope and at that point, he had no choice and so I suspended the campaign May third. I still remember it, well, we did a rally.
What got you to that decision?
Though?
I understand that the money drying up, but explain that the sphere around you and how many meetings did it take to get to the decision.
So look, I had a core team, a senior leadership team on the campaign, and these are very trusted advisors and it's about ten people, and we spent so the night before Indiana, we spent several hours going through the data and going through numbers. I told you we were in Hensley data driven. I don't think there has ever been a candidate and a campaign that was as data driven as we were. And we knew the results in virtually every state before they happened, and consistently our results
were within one or two points of the outcome. So as we were sitting down the night before, we had a long, extensive meeting and we go through the numbers. We go through the numbers and the subsequent states, and as I'm looking at it, there wasn't a state we had a path to win.
So is that just crushing to you personally? I mean, you're still in a campaign, you're still fighting center. I mean, so the media played a pivotal role in it. So, for example, the night of the New York primary, I gave a speech in Constitution Hall in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania was coming up the next week.
I remember that.
It was a brand new speech, so it was not my stump speech. It was a speech I'd never given before. It was it wasn't terribly long. It was like twelve thirteen minutes, so it was not a long stemwinder. The media cut it off, they didn't ear it, they just went away. Now, mind you, there are only two of us, Trump and me. There were four people on planet Earth, one of the four of whom was going to be the next president. Trump and me, Hillary and Bernie those
were the four percentiate's remaining. And the media said, no, we're not even going to cover your speech. Mind you, They would do things like CNN had one press conference where they literally had the camera live on an empty podium waiting for Trump to speak, and they had the camera pointed at the air there's this plane. I mean, it was. It was breath taking coverage that just drowned
everything out. And so as we're sitting there we looked at the upcoming states, and when our numbers collapsed, our numbers collapsed everywhere. So I'm sitting there with my data guys, and I'm like, well, okay, what's the path to victory? I mentioned why Desantus suspended he did have a path to victory. As I looked at it, I could not see any path to victory. Now, I also knew my numbers in Indiana. I knew that we were going to lose the next day. I knew we were going to
lose by double digits. Now did I hold out hope for a miracle, sure, yeah, but our data was rock solid. And it's interesting there's some people in politics who hire staffers who just blow smoke at them, tell them what they want to hear. I don't understand that. I think that's idiotic. I hire a team that they will tell me when I've screwed up, they'll tell me when the polling's bad, like they're brutally honest. I think that makes you much more effective. But I knew that night, Okay,
the next day, we're going to get clobbered Indiana. And if we get clobbered in Indiana, we go on in the state's coming up. We don't have any path. And I mentioned everyone drops out when they go broke. I'm one of the few people for whom that was not the case. I wasn't broke. We had several million dollars still in the back.
You could have kept going.
I had the money to keep going. Now, we couldn't do big.
Advis yeah, but you could run in a campaign.
You could get to the next state, you could set up shop, you could do the you could do the events.
So when I suspended on May third, Trump was astonished, did not expect me to do that. And as I said, the reason I did is we looked at the polling numbers and there was no credible path to come back and win. And once there wasn't a path to win, I wasn't interested in running and being a spoiler. Listen. I wanted to beat Hillary Clinton. Yeah, and so I didn't want to stick around just for the heck of it.
Once there wasn't a path forward, and so I had a speech prepared that night, and we had We're in Indiana, and we had several hundred of our strongest supporters that were there, and well, actually, let me tell you something about that morning. So the morning of the Indiana primary, I fly out to this event to do this speech. And by the way, in Indiana, I was campaigning with Mike Pence, Yeah, who was the governor of Indiana, who had just endorsed me.
It was a big endorsement, and a lot of people thought that could maybe change those numbers you were talking about.
Except we didn't because Pence's numbers were terrible in Indiana. He actually was underwater. His unfavorables were higher than his favorables, and so we had we actually there were very limited places in Indiana we could take Pence because most counties we went to it was not helpful. We picked a couple of counties where it was. But this is what
I mean by being data driven. We say, Okay, if we're going to campaign with someone, let's do it somewhere where it helps and not hurts, and down to those day to day decisions. But the morning of the primary, we flew I forget what time. We flew to a speech that morning, and as we were driving by, there was an elementary school on the corner, and the school knew that a presidential candidate was coming, and so they'd let all the kids go out into the like the
yard to like to see the presidential candidate. And I told the guy driving the truck, I said, pull over, I want to go go talk to the kids. And so I went and talked to the kids, and I ended up just kind of walking right into the group of kids, and I was surrounded by hundreds of fifth graders, maybe younger, but they seemed about fifth graders. And they were cheering and screaming at the top of their lungs.
And I've never had that happen, by the way, that this is the only day in politics that I've ever had this experience. And they're literally jumping up and down around me and cheering. And I got to say that was emotional because I knew that morning that, barring a miracle, I was dropping out that evening. So so that was a hard day. That whole day was a hard day. And I will tell you, look, I don't don't like wearing faith on my sleeve, but ben I genuinely feel
like that morning was God just giving me a hug. Yeah, Like I will tell you, to be surrounded by several hundred screaming fifth graders, just just cheering, I was grateful, like Okay, I needed this. I needed that, and it's still to this day it I'm getting choked up. I mean it was. It was a morning that was just like wow. So that night we have the rally. I have my prepared remarks and I'm giving my remarks, and
they have me suspending the campaign. As I get to I say, I've always said I will stay in this as long as there is a path to victory. Ahead looking at the results, I don't see a path to victory, and therefore I am tonight suspending my campaign for president. When that happened, there was a woman in the crowd who let out a whale and it felt like she had been struck. And I gotta say, it struck me like a knife, like that whale hurt. And I made it through the speech, and I'll tell you it was
not easy to make it through the speech. And then I went backstage. There was a big curtain that separated the backstage and I went backstage, and I'll tell you, I was just weeping. They just tears were streaming down my face. And to this day, I'm embarrassed because I couldn't go out there and thank those supporters, and I
desperately wanted. There were hundreds of people who had flown from state to state and knocked on doors and made phone calls that poured their hearts into them, and I wanted with all my might to go out there and hug every one of them and say thank you, thank you for fighting for our country. And I just I
couldn't stop weeping. And the problem was there were about two hundred TV cameras out there, and from my perspective, when I thought that night, I said, I'll be damned if I'm going to let the media turn lion ted into cry and ted that just no, no, they do not get to see this. It's none of their damn business. And I could so I couldn't come out. And Heidi was there, and it was one of Look, any good marriage is really a partnership, and Heidi is my best friend.
That night, Heidi went out and spent.
Probably two hours saying thank you.
Saying thank you, and hugging every person there and they're all crying too, like it. It was a painful night, but Heidi had the strength to do what on that night I did not. That's a hard thing, like a presidential campaign is so all consuming it consumes sixteen to eighteen hours a day, seven days a week. It that listen, I feel for Ron and Casey.
Right now, it's twenty twenty four and a lot of us are trying to get our finances in order.
There is some great news for homeowners.
Interest rates have dropped and are now in the fives, a lot lower than they were last year. And if you've been buried in high interest credit card debt, now's the time to break free. American Financing can help you access to cash in your home to pay off your high interest debt. Last year, there's salary based mortgage consultants help customers save an average of eight hundred and fifty four dollars a month. That's like giving yourself a ten
thousand dollar raise. What a way to start the new year. And if you start today, you may be able to
delay two mortgage payments. Call American Finding Today eight and eight six seven five forty ninety that's eight and eight six seven five forty ninety or online at American Financing dot net MLS eighteen twenty three thirty four MLS Consumer Access dot org APR for rates in the five start at six point four zero six percent for well qualified borrowers call eight eight eight six seven five forty ninety
for details about credit costs and terms. I think anyone that runs for president that's a serious candidate and drops out. People have asked me, what's it like on a president's campaign when it's over, Mike, it's like a funeral.
Yeah, if you're a true.
Believer in the campaign, in the candidate, you're giving it, you're all you're a staffer, you want your guy to win, and it's over.
It's like a funeral.
It and I spend a lot of time after Like our team, I still think the team willsembled. And I'm not impartial, but I think the team we assembled is the best campaign team certainly that I've ever seen. And they were like family. And so I went and assembled the entire team. Our headquarters was here in Houston, and I thanked all the staff that this is like A day or two later, I thanked everyone and brought them in and just just talked about reflected on what the
campaign meant and what they'd accomplished. And when we started, nobody thought I had a prayer. Nobody thought we could win a single state, and we came with an inches of winning the whole thing. And I will tell you we had so Our campaign office was like an entire floor of cubicles here in Houston, not far from where we are right now, very close, very close to where
we are right now. And as everyone you know, went home, I remember walking through that campaign office and just all the empty cubicles and you know the song from Le Miz empty chairs and empty table.
Yeah, that was.
The song I kept hearing in my mind. In fact, I'm sure Ron and Case you're feeling the same thing. And it's it is a hard thing because everyone pours themselves into it. You know, years ago someone told me there's a reason that both politics and war used the word campaign because it's all consuming. There is nothing else in life like when you are on a campaign. It is one hundred percent of your will and your heart
and your mind and your soul and everything. And and you know, you do feel like you've let people down. You know, you're getting people their uprooting their lives, they're moving their families, they're giving sacrificially. They believe in you. And look at this point, I've won elections, I've lost elections. Winning is much better. Yeah, those nights are a lot better.
But the reality here, I think this outcome was ordained the night of the Iowa Caucuses, when Trump won a dominating victory, it was clear to Santus had no oxygen. And Haley, as I mentioned, she will likely be competitive in New Hampshire, but I see no path for her beyond that, and so now we are going to test. Look, there are some big donors in the Republican Party that are never Trumpers, that who do not like Trump and are writing millions of dollars to try to change the outcome.
I don't think the money can do it at this point. You know, they've got enough money in New Hampshire they could practically send a masseuse to give everyone a back rub and a foot rub on the way to the polls. But as you get on to South Carolina, I think Trump's lead weight is way too large for Haley to have a chance, And from there I don't think there's any path.
Beyond final question your advice to Nikki Haley. If you don't have that pathway that you just described, what's the point of staying in now?
Look, you know, I actually try to refrain from giving advice to other candidates that everyone's got to follow their own heart and do what they.
Think is right in their own timeline.
Yeah, I mean, it's you know, calling on people to get out. I don't think.
Let it play out.
Yeah, it will play out. It's going to play out naturally. It's going to play out naturally, and pretty quickly, I think. And so you know, I recognize the decision to suspend a campaign is not easy. And look, depending on when it occurs, it can often mean. So in twenty sixteen, you know, a bunch of the candidates suspended early, long before Iowa, and so I ended up of my opponents, five of my opponents ended up endorsing me in that race.
And and so so I got endorsed by Rick Perry and Carly Fiorina and Scott Walker uh and and Jeb Bush and Lindsay Graham all backed me. And you know, you go out and campaign. So you know, Rick Perry, you know, went and campaigned with me, and in Iowa, you know, and and knew you know, I remember being in Barnes there and and look, Rick Perry was was my governor, someone who I knew and respected. He's older
than I am. So it was a little surreal having having someone like Rick Perry come and campaign and say go go vote for Ted. Uh. You know Lindsay Graham, my colleague, you know, he had famously said that if you killed me on the floor of the Senate and the jury were other senators, you couldn't find a jury
to convict me, to convict the murderer. And so when Lindsay endorsed me, you know, I jumped on on, you know, and he helped raise the money for me, and I remember saying and saying at the time, I said, Wow, this is the first time in my life I've ever been endorsed by someone who's publicly called for my murder. You know, politics can be a strange and Lindsay and I have become friends since then. But it was you get interesting Carly Ferina, who I thought was a terrific
candidate that cycle. You'll recall I announced that if I'd won, she would have been my VP. Yeah, that was an unusual step to do it early, but frankly, I was trying to break through the narrative, the wall of the three billion dollars of free media, and I was trying to find something that actually would be heard by the voters, but the corporate media had no interest in anything being heard. Frankly, I think most of the media wanted Trump to be the nominee because they wanted Hillary to win.
And they thought that that was what all of them are saying was give us Trump, he's the easiest to be it, and Hillary Quinton will become the president units It's America and will break that glass ceiling of that beautiful building.
I think that was a very deliberate strategy, and I will say for all those bastards that kind of backfire. They got four years of Donald Trump as president. They may be about to get four more years of Donald Trump as president. And it's you know, the self declared media overlords that there is an old saying, be careful what you.
Wish for, no doubt about it. I love these conversations. I love that we get to do this.
Thanks for pulling back the curtain on sixteen and explaining it from a candidate's perspective, because, as you mentioned, what people go through when they have to drop out, especially DeSantis right now, it's tough. It can take months to come out from that fog of war afterwards, because all of a sudden you go from nine to nothing to it's all over, as you mentioned, And how long does it take to get out of that fog.
I think it depends on the candidate.
It depends a lot. Look, everyone has a period where you just kind of morning, I assume wrong, we'll do this, but but just about everyone goes and go somewhere on vacation. And my advice when I talk to a candidate after they've lost, and this is true. I've talked to lots of candidates who are running for Senate in the House, and some win, some lose. But for the ones that lose, I say, go somewhere, unplug, get off email, get off your phone, get off Twitter. Just just go sit by
the beach with a pinacolada and and just recharge. Recharge, be with your family, hug your kids, just just get away for a while, and and look, the world gets a lot quieter. You know. In a presidential campaign, it's deafening. And then when you suspend it, it's like, Okay, I'm out of this crazy game at least for now. And then to come out of the funk list in every presidential candidate that loses, I think, without exception, goes into
a funk. I mean you have a bit of depression and grieving, yeah, And the key to kind of I was no exception to that. I had a period where I was just kind of in a funk. Yeah. And I think the key to coming out of it is finding something to lean in that you love, that you engage in and you know, listen, I have a day job of representing thirty million Texans, which I love doing and pour all of my heart, mind and soul into it,
and that became go. And then when Trump became president, you had everybody to work with, and I rolled up my sleeves and said, I am going to lead the fight in the Senate for us to deliver on our promises we got. We have work to do. And so pouring yourself into the fight and into the work is I think a really important part of coming out of it. And some candidates do that more quickly than others. It varies person by person.
It's fun. I love the conversation. Don't forget me do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Make sure that you hit that subscribe download button, especially if you're listening on Apple right now, you have to check that box and
make sure that you are following the show. They've changed it up for the new year and how it works, so make sure you're still getting those automatic downloads as we do the show three days a week, plus a week in review on Saturdays for what you may have missed during the week, and we'll see you back here on Wednesday.