A Pathway to Polyamory with Dr Sandy Peace

The biggest myth around polyamory is all you need is love. Nope, you also need Google Calendar and plenty of cash and lots of time and an ability to emotionally regulate. And work with your jealousy and your possessiveness. And yes, you also need a lot of love. Welcome into the expansive world of Cis Society, a space where taboos dissolve, shadows become allies, and sensuality, intimacy and sexuality are celebrated as gateways to truth.

This is Taboo Talks, a podcast where no topic is off limits. And everything is held with courage, compassion, and curiosity. Together, let's shatter the limits of what we've been taught to fear and transform it into the power to live fully, freely and authentically. Welcome back. On this episode, we are exploring consensual non-monogamy, loving freely, navigating jealousy, and creating a relationship that truly fits you. Here to guide us through all of this, we warmly welcome doctor Sandy Peace.

Psy D C S T is a California licensed psychologist and sex therapist in private practice providing individual partner and group therapy.

She also uses trauma informed intersectional and spiritual lenses to help clients integrate their thoughts, emotions, and somatic experiences to feel more connected to themselves and others. Dr. Peace uses collaboration and humor with clients to address the challenges they are facing. She is a general generalist. Clinician with expertise in identity development, LGBT, polyamory, life transitions, anxiety, depression, trauma, relationships, and sexuality.

Welcome to the show, Sandy. Thank you so much. It's an honor to have you here. We are very excited about this conversation and I just wanna jump right into it. I'm curious what led you into this field? What got you into this sex therapy and polyamorous world?

Sure. Uh like many things for people, it was personal experience that started me on the journey. And then my intellectual curiosity and just my curiosity about humans kept me going. Um and that is You know, as I was a teenager and my own sexuality was blossoming, and I'm looking around and I'm learning the statistic that 50% of marriages end in

And me, the rebellious teenager, is like, um, well, if that is the case, clearly there's something wrong with marriage, and maybe we need to be doing something different. Fast forward a few years, I tried to do something different with my partner at the time. We had zero information, zero framework, zero words. Nothing to communicate what it was we were trying to do. We just knew we didn't want a normal monogamous marriage. And let me tell you, friends, it exploded in my head.

Um and so I really at that point, you know, Google was in its infancy. I got online and I'm like, How to have a relationship that isn't monogamous and boop, polyamory popped up. And so since then I've been very interested in studying it, learning about it, doing it, meeting people.

Um, which then led to my dissertation research on polyamorous identity development. So it's been a multi, multi, multi, multi-year journey, starting when I was a teenager and just really like I just want to kiss everyone and

Why isn't that okay? Well love all people. Do you think that okay, this this question just came through. Do you think that people are A born polyamorous? that it's actually like something in their DNA or do you think that it's it's in response to a childhood trauma or a wound, like

What's what are your thoughts on that? Sure. God, I wish I had a better answer for this. I almost feel like this is the same question we were asking about people who were gay back in like the nineties. Like, is it nature or is it nurture? You know? And I think I think people can choose to be in polyamorous relationship structures and not feel like it's necessarily a natural thing. But most of the poly folks I've talked to are like, no, this is who I am. Like this is a natural thing.

And I know for myself personally, I get to know people kinesthetically. So I want to hug you, I wanna kiss you, I wanna like, I wanna feel you to get to know you, you know, and um. Yeah, I just have a big heart, and I know the two of you have big hearts too. But there's a difference between also loving big-heartedly and wanting to include sexuality in it.

And so that's the piece. Like most people can get, oh, I can love expansively, especially when you start thinking about, you know, parents who have more than one child. Like of course we love our family, we love our friends, we love our kids. But then when we start to add sexuality in, I actually think more of us than not would like to be able to do that. But we've got such deep, deep and longstanding

cultural conditioning that sex has to be controlled. Sex has to be just as a dyad within marriage. And that's some super intense conditioning.

Yeah, and like all the religious conditioning too, because I grew up in an extremely, extremely religious family and Christian school my whole life. And this kind of leads to my next question is like someone maybe someone who comes from a religious background or just grew up with watching all these Disney movies and cultural conditioning. but they have like a vision or a desire to be practicing consensual non monogamy non monogamy in some way, is that enough?

to actually allow that person to bridge into this new way of relating or do you feel like it is just something that you are born? You know, I do think that there's we make a very big paradigm shift from a monogamous paradigm to a polyamorous or a more open relating paradigm. Because we are really conditioned in this monogamous one person, soulmate, paradigm.

I mean and Disney fucked up my marriage. Oh, can I say that? I don't know. Disney messed up my marriage because I thought you get married and then it's happily ever after. No, no, that's when the work really starts. And so I feel like we've got to make this paradigm shift into really saying, wow, I can love more than one person. I can be committed to more than one person. I can be faithful.

to more than one person because those are those are all words used by religion, fidelity, commitment, that that make us think, oh, we can only give that to one person. No. we can be committed and faithful and loving to a lot of different people, even when it includes sexuality. Yeah, that's beautiful. I honestly I have well, we talked about this briefly when we had you on the show before, about how I tried polyamory and you're like, Maybe you're not polyamorous and I'm like

Yeah, I don't think I am. I think I'm monogamous. But um just this concept of like I mean it's being able to love many people. Uh I had I I still have this story that like there cannot be a successful polyamorous relationship. like in the world and I know but it's my experience and because you know, my my direct relationship to it didn't work. And so yeah, I just I wanna I wanna hear the words out of your mouth that like There like I have seen and witnessed or I am in

A successful polyamorous relationship. I think it will just clear something in my system. I just really want to say let me start with the basic principle of we think that a good monogamous relationship is one that lasts forever. It lasts our lifetime and beyond. Right. And what we need to really understand in this paradigm shift to to non-monogamy is that people change.

I don't know about the two of you, but I've lived many different lifetimes in this one lifetime because I've changed, I've upgraded, or I've shifted, or I'm a different person now than I was, you know. Hell, a week ago, right? And so the thing about polyamorous relationships is there is more change in volatility. And so that is something that is often equated with failure, not success.

But let me give an example of some folks who I know and love, like the Polly Wise Woman. So, you know, she and her husband decide to get married, have a child, the nanny comes to help, and Then the nanny becomes a part of this loving triad. y you know, and then the nanny has to leave because they need to take care of their ill parent. And then someone new comes in and someone new comes in and someone leaves and someone transitions from

lover to friend, right? So there's a lot of shifting and changing that can happen if we start to hold that, well, I can be connected to people in the way that makes sense right now. You know, I feel I feel like there's almost this like

It's so terrifying uh because there's such this sense of failure that if you get a divorce or your relationship ends and after you're married or with someone, then it's a failure, right? And I think like if we're more If we're less attached and we're just living more surrendered and more authentically And I think that the polyamorous world and kind of style of relating allows that surrender and natural cyclical nature of everything, including friends, including loved ones, to just happen.

without such a grip and like attachment and a story of failure.

And then I think that creates more like authenticity, whether you could be with that person forever, right? You could be with your polyamorous partner. till you die, but you're doing it because you're consciously choosing to do that every single day when you could choose other things and it be okay. So it's like in the long run I feel like there is just more authentic like choosing and loving and without the fear of failure or the labels around

Well, I even think how in monogamous couples who divorce at some point and then they figure out how to be co-parents together or they figure out how to be friends even after the romantic relationship is is over. Like to for me that's Uh poly adjacent. I don't know. Like i it's interesting because even our view of monogamy has widened

to include loving more than one person because monogamy used to mean you were a virgin when you uh got married and that was the only person you were with. That is not how we do relationships anymore. Most people are serial monogamy. Or sometimes there's a little bit of overlap even, right? And so in a way, we are loving multiple people in our lifetime. Most people just do it one person at a time, sexually.

But if you if we really dig, a lot of people have overlap too. They like meet their new person before they've let go of their person that they know. Or they even have the misconception like I did that if if I start to have feelings for someone new, it means something is wrong with the old relationship. My monogamous conditioning said, oh, because I'm feeling something for someone new, then I must have to break up with this person.

Pollyamory says no, don't get rid of the person who's already there. Invite someone new in, invite that new love in, invite that new vitality in, and keep keep your connection.

We've got a really big epiphany around this right now. Because the you you just spoke into a a very personal experience for me where I was in a long term alternative relationship. We shifted through many different dimensions, you know, we were seeing people together, then we started seeing people separately and moved more into poly polyamory and then I met someone else.

And fell in love with them. And right now, in this moment, I'm realizing that I had monogamous conditioning. Cause he was like, My, you know, my long-term partner was like. why why can't we just still be together? You know, like you love him, you love me, like let's just be together. And I'm like, No, it can't it can't be that way. I have to break up with you. I have to, you know, it's all or nothing. It's black or white.

And I didn't have the capacity or the consciousness at that time to even know that was an option. Like he was suggesting it to me and I was like, Nope, I'm leaving you. Like I and it was there was shame in it, you know, there was so much kind of swirled into it. But um yeah, this is really this is a powerful moment for me. Thank you for speaking into that. And thank you for sharing sharing that personal story. Yeah. It was it was tender.

You know, it was really tender. We we were together for eight years and we moved through a lot of dimensions together and There were things that weren't working that when I met this person were working. So I was almost, I felt, and I'm sure you hear this a lot, I felt malnourished, I felt hungry for those parts. And I just kind of was like, Okay, these pieces I've been, you know, super malnourished with, I'm gonna just head in this direction. When in retrospect, like they were

They had such beautiful elements and they were individuals. It was like a you know, I was it was an apple and a pear and they both have such delicious qualities. And had I known now what I know then, things would have been different, absolutely. Yeah. And and that is the polyamorous paradigm, is that you know, there's just my belief that every new person that we interact with is gonna sh reflect back to us a different part of our

So there's a there's an opportunity for learning and growing and we'll do that for them too. And in polyamory, there's this openness to deepen that relationship without Fear that it's gonna, we're gonna lose another relationship. So there's a freedom to connect with someone new deeply and fully. Even in the realm of sexuality, that at least I hunger and crave for in this lifetime. I want to connect with as many people as possible.

not necessarily sex, you know, but I I I'm sure the two of you are too. We're multidimensional beings. We need a lot of people to bounce off of to learn about You know, and um Yeah, being able to welcome that in. Um rather than I I've noticed a lot in monogamy and especially when I was Like when I first got married, I gained like 10 pounds. And I realized it was because I had to shut down my sexuality in order to not be attracted to or attract other people. Like my sexuality was not flow.

But when I let myself be polyamorous, all of a sudden my sexuality is flowing. I'm more vivacious. I'm more outgoing. I'm happier. Everyone gets more sex, including you know. So for me, you know, I realized that that was something I did to try and keep myself monogamous because that's not how I am. Yeah, so go elf. Oh I was I just was seeing an analogy, you know, like

how you're explaining it so beautifully, Sandy, and I just kept seeing this like really stable, sturdy house that is us, that is our center. And then when we meet someone we're we're adding an addition to the house, right? We're building a new room, a new porch, a new bathroom.

we're outfitting the basement. It's just like you're just continuously adding on to create more space for more love as opposed to shutting a door or demolishing the house and saying, Okay, I have to build a new house now. It's just this really dynamic delightful thing. Yeah. Well this conversation has been is so juicy so far and we're gonna continue to dive even deeper into the core of all of this world of consensual non-monogamy, but first we're gonna just take a quick break.

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And welcome back to Taboo Talks. We are here with Dr. Sandy Peace as we continue to explore the taboo realms of polyamber. And that leads me in to my question that I have for you, Sandy, which is What is the biggest mistake that you see clients making when they're trying to open their relationships or just mistakes that they're making in their current polyam?

feel the cold so many eyes is a cold the first one that popped in my head, especially for people who are new at polyamory, is I call it the kid in the candy store. It's like my, ah, great, I'm in an open relationship now. I can date everyone. Woo! And then they proceed without a whole lot of care or caution for the impact of their actions to try and date everyone all at once.

Uh, I recommend a little bit slower process. Um it is very exciting to all of a sudden go ahead and flirt. Flirt shamelessly, flirt with everything. Before you dive in, slow down, take a breath and double check what is the impact of this going to be on my current relationship, my schedule, my finances, my own time with myself. That is something a lot of people forget to factor in is time with themselves.

Like I had a friend at one point who I think was dating five people and they were trying to go real deep with everyone and they were just like frazzled all the time. I'm like, um, when was the last time you had some alone time? They're like, alone time? What's that? So they realize, oh, I've spread myself too thin. So spreading yourself too thin is kind of an early poly mistake. Folks who've been doing this for a while are actually very, very picky and boundried about who they let close to them.

You know, I'm even um at the point now where it's like Sadly, I can't connect deeply with every single person I meet. There's just not enough hours in the day. And so I've really used. like community gatherings as a place, as a container to deepen connections. And so I might meet people Especially you know, especially folks I'm not feeling drawn to like date or have sex with, but want to be friends with, want to be community members with. That's the only time.

you know, I just don't have time to go like, Hey, you wanna have some coffee, you wanna have some dinner? It doesn't work anymore. And it I had a a moment of grieving about that about a month ago. I'm like, Oh, I just I don't have time for everyone in the world, you know. And so that's a couple of the mistakes, but there's certainly more, and I'm sure as we're talking, we'll get into more of them. Yeah, that time one is huge and

I've already like personally, I already feel like having a uh my partner, having my business, having my alone time, having my girlfriends, and going to community events. I'm like I don't even know I would have to like cut some of those things down or cut them out to even have time for like another deep relationship. So yeah, it's really interesting. We can like our eyes can kind of be bigger sometimes than our stomachs in a way.

Totally. But I love what you're mentioning about community gatherings. It's like kind of using those to go really deep with those people that we feel connected with. And then maybe there's like one or two people out of that space that we are like, okay, I want to invite you over for dinner.

Let's go do this adventure together. Yeah. And I guess I want to just jump in that we don't have to go deep with everyone we meet. Some people are just going to be that person we have hot sex with once a month, once a year. Thank you. No. And what do you see from like your experience and and your clients experience? And this is gonna be different for everyone depending on, you know, if they have kids, their jobs, all these things, their their libido. But what do you typically see is like

And and what's the word I'm looking for? Like a reasonable amount of partners that people can actually sustain, like truly if they want to go deep and have like intimate Yeah. Again, it just really depends on people's energy level.

Like I'm an eight hours a night sleep kind of gal. Those people who are like four hour a night people, they can have more partners. They just get more stuff done than I do and and interact with more people. Um so Um also it depends on Again, the depth of connection, the type of connection, like say someone

is like really into sex parties and they've got their like people that they see at a sex party. So they might have friendly, snuggly, sexy time during different, you know, community parties that revolve around sex. that might be their relationship and it's contained there. It might not even necessarily come into day-to-day life, but they might have their nesting partner or their anchor partner who they live with or they don't live with.

Um so again, I hate to say kind of three is you know the right number. Um, because everyone's a bit different. And like I said, some people are more kind of comets. They like come into your orbit, you see them, you love them up, and then they leave and then you don't see them again for a while. Um Yeah, but it is like you you have to take into consideration job kids, self-care partners into your poly count.

So your poly count is kind of how many hours in a day, how much energy do I have, and what can I realistically do? So people really need to be honest with themselves about

And there also if there's like combining like if it's you and your partner and you're also bringing someone else in, then that time is shared. So then you have more time. Partners too. So there's lots of different equations. Definitely not a one size fits all. And I I I would love to zoom into your personal experience if you're open to it and just when you meet someone, how do you navigate y your

um polyamory conversationally? Like do you speak into it immediately? Are you setting boundaries? Are you sharing your desires? Like are you open to sharing more about that process and what that looks like? So both in online dating and in person, usually when I'm meeting people in person, it is going to be at polyamorous events where no people are already into that. I put on my dating profile, I am solo polyamory. Like so people kind of know.

out the gate because I've definitely seen people run into the issue of, oh, I didn't tell them I was polyamorous and then we're getting along and then date five, I tell them and there's a big freak out. Or after we've had sex for the first time, then I tell them that is too late, friends. Um, and so personally. I'm already walking to into a situation where people know, but then I will really tell people this is kind of the kind of connections I'm looking for.

So personally, um I'm solo polyamorous. I live alone. I like living alone. Um I've lived in many with partners, in like intentional housing, like I've done a lot of different living with people. I'm good, I'm owned. Um, but I love to invite people into my space. I love to entertain. Um, perhaps I've been readying myself for a partner who might be with me more often. Like I got a king size bed. I bought two paddle boards instead of one, right? So I am

Currently at this stage in my life, I've lived in the same place for like five years, which is a record for me. Since graduating college, I usually move quite often. um Sagittarius. Um so now I'm like, huh, maybe I would be more open to a more consistent person. I don't know if I want to live with them, but I you know, so I just I tell people when I meet them, this is what I'm looking for. And some people will be like, Yeah, me too. And some people are like, You're hot, let

Screw and I'll be like, okay, that works too. You know. So sometimes that's all it is also. Yeah. Kind of going off of that, like and Heather and I were talking about this earlier, it's like what if You know, I know the word polyamory means like many loves and if you talk to like different people around how they practice non monogamy. It's very different. Some people

just wanna swing or just wanna have like sexual encounters with many people. Other people it's really about just keeping your heart open and they want to go really deep with people when it's like really connected. But like what happens if you you know, are just wanting a more sexually sexual experience.

And then it turns into more and people get attached because that's happens typically when we have sex and then there's all the attachment styles at play and then the trauma from the childhood and I'm just curious like uh when all this like kind of complex dynamics arise around sex, attachment, childhood trauma, all these things. Like, how do you navigate that and how do you guide your clients through that in a way that doesn't create'cause I have a fear that it's just gonna create so much drama

and so much like chaos and I just I'm not really available for that and that it could be confusing as a w uh especially I think as a woman. Uh I don't wanna like gender stereotype. But I just know myself I get I can get very confused when I start letting people into my womb space. So yeah, I'm just curious like how you navigate all of that with your clients and personally. Sure. Um, I'll say around letting people into your room space, different people.

Sometimes just leaving a couple days between lovers to give everything a chance to integrate and settle and then be ready and open for someone else. Like that's always worked better for me when I've tried to have like back-to-back encounters or

It doesn't work. My body is like, what is happening? So some people can do that. Some people can go to a sex party and have sex with five people that night and they're very happy. So again, it's really honoring where your body is at. Um Oh that was a very long I I lost my train of thought'cause I got caught on the very last thing. Um

You have a primary partner and then you have something casual and then one partner falls in love or starts to feel fine. Just attachment styles and trauma in general. Yes, yes, yes. So um It is so wild how almost every poly person cuel I've worked with somehow configures their relationship situation to mirror their family system.

It's like uncanny how that happens. Just how we can do that in monogamy. We find that partner who's like matches our dysfunctions like so perfectly. That can happen in Polycules tool. And I I'm always fascinated. But just like in a monogamous situation, we can, if we found ourselves in that, that's when we slow things down and become very clear and conscious of like.

I mean, this is why doing personal work is so important, like, oh, here's my wounds, here's my triggers, here's my fears. All of a sudden I'm finding myself in a situation where this is ripe for it happening. Let's talk about it. Like let's talk with my partners and say, hey, I this is really tender for me. You know, I'm not when you go out with someone else, it's gonna be really tender for me and I'm gonna need a lot of

sweet care before you leave. And I'm gonna have to get myself surrounded by friends when you're gone or have something set that I want to do for myself. And then when you come home, I'm gonna need to like reconnect with you and reaffirm our attachment because I know I'm gonna freak out. You know, but and that's where knowing yourself, communicating with your partner is so important. Um which

There's something so special about polyamory is because like you said, everyone has does it a different way, even their definitions of the same words might be different. We're kind of forced to clearly communicate.

Well first, forced to get real with ourselves about what do I actually want? Who am I actually? Then we need to communicate with the other person. This is who I am. This is what I'm about. What are we co-creating? You know, and then we have to ask for what we need in the course of relating. And some people are going to be able to do that and engage in that and some people are not.

You know, sometimes the communication is nice and explicit. Sometimes the communication is implicit or more subtle. So sometimes there's just a clash of communication styles. So Yeah. This is all really beautiful. Um the dialogue that you modeled around kind of

communicating with your partner before and then having a plan during and then also after. That's like my dream scenario. And I'm also curious like you know, what's the boundary of this is my responsibility to self soothe versus like this is um something that I can bring to my partner and ask because I know that I guess I've had a tendency in my wounding to w ne like feel like asking a lot for my partner to soothe my nervous system and I do want to feel safe to co regulate.

But I also know that there's like a boundary of like, okay, this is mine, this is yours. So how do you kind of like navigate that maybe with a partner that's not always gonna be available to do everything with you? Sure. I think one of the ways to find out for yourself, is this a me thing or a us thing is to look at your look at yourself and look at your behaviors and are you trying to control the other person so that you can control your emotional response.

So a lot of people in polyamory will set up agreements like no penetrative sex or no sleeping in our bed because they're trying to regulate their own Jealousy trigger and the emotion that goes. And so That is not to say there can't be agreements like that. There sure can. And you sure should respect what is the boundary and it should be co-created.

But if you're starting to slip into a power struggle where you're trying to control them and they're rebelling against it, then we then we need to really slow things down and and reach an agreement about what's what's okay and what's not okay. But that also means if I'm trying to control everything and everyone around me because I don't feel safe, that means I've got to slow down and I've really got to work with, okay, what's happening.

If we've got a partner who's available, we can tell them, hey, this is what I'm going through, and I know that it's my responsibility and I also need your help. And sometimes it's not a conversation. Sometimes it is just really body to body. Hug each other for thirty seconds until you get that And you can you can connect and and regulate down. If your partner is not giving you that.

Maybe they're avoidant, you know. Um, if you're asking for that like 30 times a day, okay, that might be too much. Um Again, it's just so personal, right? Yeah. Oh this tender this is a tender topic. Yeah. Yeah, I think the bulk of of my relationships I've I've dated a lot of avoidant uh partners and Elfina, I believe, has as well too. So I'm curious just from that particular angle.

Like how how somebody can navigate that and open up a conversation with someone who tends to be avoidant and shut down. Around these types of things. Or is it just a thing like, Hey, we're not aligned, we shouldn't actually be together because I need more co regulation kind of thing. Well, for me this is where Here's the joy of polyamory. And one of my mottos is I can ask for something from someone. And if they can't give it to me, I can get it from someone else.

And I also need to adjust my expectations of who this person is gonna be in my life. So if I'm wanting a deep connection with someone and they are not able or willing to do it, I need to pull back my hopes and expectations that they're going to fill that role. We can still have hot sex, we can still date and have fun, but I am no longer going to expect that from them. Because now I'm just hurting myself if I'm asking them to do something they don't want to do or they can't.

And that all of a sudden frees me up to be like, let's just enjoy what we do have. But I'm gonna look for keep looking for that person who's gonna give me the emotional depth and safety and stability that I'm actually creating. Right. And so this is the transition piece of like, we can still relate, but I'm gonna stop being angry and resentful that you're not doing what I want you to do. I'm gonna accept, okay, this is who you are, this is what you can give, let's just enjoy that.

I like it. Yeah. And also like what I've been finding too is like that I can co regulate. I had this story that like I need my partner to always corregulate with me, but it's like we have a whole community. of friends and people that are like happy to co regulate with the hug, that aren't necessarily having their central nervous systems triggered the fuck out of, that are like there fully and it's not

Sometimes it's a wake we really need that with our partner. I'm not trying to like downplay that, but I've just been learning that there's so many ways I could co regulate with a tree, you know, I can co regulate with my cat And then what I've found in my own like experiencing of that is when I don't like need it, need it from my partner in my anxious style attachment, and he feels like He's safe, more like safe than he like actually just opens up and gives it to me voluntarily.

So it's like also that's my work as the anxious one to like learn how to self soothe and be able to meet in a secure way where it's not like we're trying to any we're not trying to get something from each other, but we're both bringing And then we're able to like bring that Yeah, bring that together in a secure way. Totally. Totally. Yeah. And um

Let's see, I have a question for you on a more like positive note. What are the deepest benefits that you have personally experienced or seeing your clients? Yeah. I think one you just kind of mentioned it is finding yourself surrounded by an interconnected community, a community that is connected by love. And by fun and sex too.

Like recently I went to um like a joint birthday party for my poly people in LA, where I lived for several years. And to just walk in, I hadn't seen them all for some of them I hadn't seen for 10 years, but to walk in and just be like

Oh, I'm home. These are my people. And it just felt so lovely um and connected and warm to get hugs and to um see everyone as they developing, see how the relationships have maybe shifted and changed. That was fun too. Like okay, who's who's with who now? Okay, what? Um, but it it was just this fun interconnected like tribe yummy situation. The other piece for me personally is not feeling shackled.

Like my heart doesn't feel like it's in a cage. It feels like I have the freedom to connect with people in the way that makes sense. I don't have some arbitrary boundary around, oh, you can't connect with them because they're you you're sexually attracted. Right. Or because someone feels threatened. So I feel that freedom. And again, with that freedom comes the ability to keep growing and learning and seeing different angles of myself and how I interact with different people.

But really it is feeling just filled up with love. Like knowing I've got a whole list of people, a whole sometimes community of people that I can reach out to for those hugs, that conversation, that you know, uh, I forgot to make plans for Friday night. Who's free? You know. Um, and it's connected in a different way through sex and relationship, not just Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. I've just been experiencing so much heart expansion. just from the dynamic that I've been in already and

I'm welcoming in more and more of that too. And it doesn't even necessarily always need like you said, it it's not really about the sexuality. It's to me, it's more about the heart. And then like for me anyway, I'm more demisexual and when I feel really safe and connected to someone then that's when I wanna be more more sexual. But of course everyone, you know, has different motives and they're all beautiful.

Um, the last question I wanna ask before we segue into another little break is just the I want to really hear the importance of boundaries specifically. um boundaries, agreements, and communicating these when it comes to polyamorous dynamics and Also, if there's any other skills that you really think are super important to hone in to be successful and thrive in these relationships. And um when it comes to boundaries and communication, um

Yeah, like why are the like why is that important? Because I feel like something I hear a lot. is well I just want to be free, I want complete freedom and we did a whole topic like many episodes around the importance of boundaries kind of being the sandbox that allows you to actually be able to feel safe to be expansive and free.

And yeah, something my partner and I have been talking a lot about. He's like five planets in Sagittarius, so he's kinda like, no boundaries, total freedom and I'm like, that doesn't feel safe to me at all. Like, I need boundaries. So just from being a sex therapist, working with so many clients, like can you just tell us about the importance of those and anything else that's important to master? Sure. Okay. Quick one off the top of my head is the safer sex talk.

Like we have to have boundaries around how are we going to have sex with other people and what levels of you know safer sex practices are we gonna do. During COVID, we all actually learned how to have the We just did it around COVID. So I'm just gonna put that as a bookmark. But again The kinds of boundaries people are going to have is going to vary on what type of relationship structure they find themselves.

So like right now I'm working with a married couple who's been married for like, I don't know, fifteen years, has kids. They're wanting to open up their relationship. She's like, This is who I am. This is great. He's like, I love this in theory, but I'm freaking the fuck out, you know. And so um

So they are really like, We are primary. Family our family is first. No other relationships can get in the way. She wants to deep more date more deeply. He wants to date more casually. Right. And so Well who e whoever they end up dating has to understand We're probably never gonna live together. We're not gonna have kids together. We're you know, this is the boundaries of our relationship. And so for me, someone entering into a relationship with one of them.

has to really be okay with this is going to be about fun and sex and maybe a road trip or two and maybe some deep connection, emotional connection, but they're not going to be my ride or die. Right. Which may or may not work for people. Some people are like, yes, I just want fun and freedom. That's great. I've got a married person. Awesome. I don't have to worry about meeting all their partner needs. They have someone else to do that. Excellent.

But that's one of those situations where if someone is looking for a partner, dating one of them is not going to be the right per fit. Right, because that's their boundaries of like this is our family structure and we're not changing that. No. Whereas with people who are more relationship anarchists or who are solo polyamory, like my boundary is, I'm not getting married again.

At least at this point. I'm I never say no to anything. I am also Sagittarius and I'm like, Yeah, if it works, you know. Um But at this moment in time, like I really don't wanna get married and I still want deep connections with people. Right. And so whoever I'm with is just gonna need to know I'm not having children. I'm I'm beyond that point. Actually, this might I physically can't. Um I'm not probably not gonna live with you, but we can connect. Let's figure that out.

Yeah. I don't know I don't think that's quite the answer you're looking for. I think there's something Oh, it it helped me like actually see that my partner does have boundaries'cause like he has a kid already and he doesn't want to live with anyone. So I'm like, Okay, I see that those are his boundaries. I think like um for me, like with the story you just told, it sounds

familiar in our dynamic where it's more like he is like, Oh, I'm this is who I am and I'm like, Oh, I was had a shit ton of religious conditioning but I want that. Like in my mind I want it. I see the vision of it. And so I guess my question is like if you are like taking steps in that direction, um maybe like having certain boundaries in place to help someone feel safe.

to to open up without fully slingshotting them into like the complete openness of everything, but in a way that like is okay in their nervous systems and the importance of communicating those boundaries and respecting those boundaries.

And like what works with clients who are making that journey, you know? Well and I think the idea of you're right, not slingshotting someone but titrading. You know, it's like like with like There's a there's actually a classic psychology technique called systematic desensitization where you literally lift.

Your hierarchy of fears. Here is the most extreme thing I would be afraid of in polyamory, which is my partner falling in love with someone else and leaving me for them. Like that's usually someone's worst fear.

And then we just bring on down to like maybe I get triggered when you're texting with someone that you met online, right? And really working on, let me think about my partner texting someone they met online and Calming my nervous system, making sure I'm in a relaxed state, thinking about that if I get elevated, bring my Um, so I do trauma work with people because that fear didn't come out of nowhere, you know, usually in in couples or dyads.

Um, I am gonna speak just about dyads. About 20% of your whatever is happening is about the situation happening now. The other 80% is something that happened way back, maybe before you even remember, that's getting triggered and Making everything exasperated. And so that's where we really want to lovingly do some individual trauma work.

But maybe invite your partner in to understand, well, this is what you're going through and to build some empathy so that they can go, oh, okay, this isn't just about me. I'm not the bad guy like making her feel this way, but this is how I can support her through this moment. Mm. So kind of working your way through those fears one at a time.

reassociating them with safety in your body, in your nervous system. Kind of like the window of tolerance, right? You like want to go to the edge of your window so you're expanding, but you don't want to go outside of it'cause then you're re traumatizing and you're actually that I what I think happens is you end up going backwards again. And if you it's more to me it feels like a slow, steady, sustainable growth versus a slingshot.

Yes. Yes. And so that might look like you sitting on the part on the couch next to your partner while they're texting someone and be like, okay, let me let me breathe. Give me a hug. Okay. They're texting. I'm safe. Nothing I'm here with my partner. Like everything's good. I don't have to This is really beautiful golden, golden nuggets of advice. Thank you so much for your wisdom and these just embodied codes that you've been living and breathing. Um, we're gonna take one more short break with

Um an affiliate message again. So stay with us and we'll be back in a GIF. Want to anonymously be featured on our show? Then head to the link in our show notes to join our email list and get our Taboo Talks card game. free. Inside you'll find juicy taboo questions that turn vulnerability into connection. Play solo or with someone you trust and maybe even share your truth on our show. Let's make it safe and sexy to talk about it all. See you there.

I experienced pleasure in solitude, certainly while masturbating, but that's the first time. I would say in the small moments when I'm dropped into my body. in the moments when I'm exploring something sexy and erotic online, maybe finding new videos to watch. I experience pleasure in nature when um it's just me and the trees and the birds and I find that pleasure.

Well, well, well, we are back. Thank you for staying tuned in with us. And Sandy, it's been really incredible diving deep into unconventional relating with you in this episode of Taboo Talk. And before we wrap rap, we would love to know if someone listening is curious about opening up to any style of non-monogamous relating, but has only ever been in a monogamous style relationship.

What are three practical steps that you would share to help them make the transition with ease and empowerment? Sure. Um step one is Read.

like educate yourself about what the heck this is because none of us got educated in this. We are all very well versed in monogamy. So read some books. Listen to some podcasts, um, talk to people who have done it before. So that personal education, the other is if they're partnered, you've got to talk to your partner. Like you really have to talk.

And if you are partnered and you're the one who's been reading and you're excited and the other person is you're like, hey, let's try polyamory and they're like, Yeah, that sounds interesting. Don't start dating. You're already way ahead of them. Then they have to do the reading. Right. And or discussion. Like some people are not gonna read the books, but you have to start talking to each other about.

Why do you want to do this? I think that's the number one thing couple couples who are trying to open up really need to understand from each other is why do you want to open up? Because most people are gonna go to I'm not enough. That's why you're opening up. And that's not usually why. It might be that I need more, but it doesn't mean you're not enough. Which can be a tricky distinction. But the other kind of rule of thumb is to Kind of go at the pace of the the s the slowest person.

Okay, the slow person can't just like dig their heels and and not do anything. that that's not fair either. But we also need to take into account that they need they might need to catch up. They might need to get fully on board. Um and so the person who's like ready and rare to go needs to just slow down.

And make sure that their partner is really truly on board. We there is high potential for coercion, especially in relationships that have been together for a long time and they're trying to open up. Because the person who has not been thinking about it. Might be like, I love you so much. I want to stay with you. I see that you really want this. I'll go ahead and try for your sake. But they have aren't trying for their own sake.

And we need to really get that to shift to, no, I'm trying because I also want to try this for myself, not just to keep you. Right. Um

Was that three? There's probably so many more. There's any more, you can go ahead. Uh maybe just like something you said too. It's like how can you tell the difference if you're opening up from a place of lack and feeling like the relationship isn't giving you something and then when you're opening up from a place of like overflow. Or

Uh you know, it's interesting because sometimes opening from a place of lack can be okay. For instance, um, we're you know, was friends with a woman who liked Many years into a marriage, grown children, shared assets, discovered, oh my God, I'm a lesbian. I've been married to this very sweet man all my life, but I actually wanna be with a woman. So she opened up their relationship so that she could date women. And he was like, Oh

Uh well, I don't want to divorce you, uh, but okay, I guess we're doing this. And it took him a minute. Um I think even at some point they didn't live together and she lived with her new partner, who was a woman. And then he started dating someone, right? And so there's a way that there was nothing wrong with him. Their relationship was great. They chose to stay married because they wanted to keep that family atmosphere going. They just then brought in other people to that family.

So there was a lack. He was not a woman. He could never be a woman. But it created now abundance because in their married life together, she was very unhappy, he was unhappy, they weren't having sex, right? But now all of a sudden, oh great, we can be friends, we're both having sex, we've all got our family love. Um that's different than the I just know I'm polyamorous and I'm just gonna be abundant about it. And a lot of folks who are feeling that are often not partnered.

You know, unless they've gotten married very young before they had that awakening. Um So again, I feel like I could talk about that like for half an hour, just that question. Yeah, any final tips and tricks for how to really thrive in this whole world of open relating polyamory? Um, well, maybe a trick that I use with everyone, not just people who are polyamorous. And it is like every time you start to have a conversation with someone to really start from your heart.

to really look them in the eyes and say, I love you. You know, I love you and I love our relationship and I'm feeling this And I'm needing something. And I have this idea. Right. So, but to really start with that place of love rather than resentment or fear or anger or or or or or lack. Oh, I feel like we should do a part two on this. I don't know if you're open to that, but like I'm just thinking metamores and all the other things that we could go into. It's just so juicy. Yeah. Yeah.

Hmm, but yeah, just for time's sake, um, we're gonna wrap this episode and it's truly been such a pleasure to connect around this. I know and I pray that this episode really helps so many people who are dynamic, who are curious, who are navigating it, who don't have as many resources.

Maybe if you feel like you can send us some books and podcasts, we'll link those in the show notes for people also who are exploring. That'd be really helpful. So make sure to check out the show notes for those resources and then also to connect with Sandy. to connect to her therapy if you're going through this. Um, she's an incredible therapist, obviously you can tell from this conversation.

And stay tuned for the next episode part two as we dive more into this. Yeah, I feel that feels like a full fuck yes in my body. We can say fuck, that's okay. Yes. Yeah. And before we end, I'm gonna ask you if that feels available for you in this moment to just make one sound. Somatic sound to describe how you feel after this conversation. Phew. Mm. Ha ha Oh, thank you, Sarah. Thank you for tuning into Taboo Talks, where some truths need to be spoken and some silences need to be broken.

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