"Benedict Cumberbatch"

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Hey, Sean. Hey, what's up? Hey, it's me. I know it's you. You just said your name. I know I'm just talking to you. Just relax about it. Hey, we're about to do another episode of SmartList. Hey, for Tracy, cold open. This is a cold open. Cold open is like...

Hey, she knows what cold open is. Hey, shut up. I'm talking to her right now. Just give me two seconds. I've got to explain what cold open is. She knows what a cold open is. She's said it a million times. Tracy, cold open is what you say at the beginning of an episode before you start the episode so people know you're starting the episode. I'm exhausted. Me too. Me as well. Don't forget about me. Also me. Welcome to SmartList.

What was that? I'm gone. Oh, God, that was probably our surprise guest. Our surprise guest fell off it. You probably just... Oh, no. Oh, no. So let's see. Everybody is at home base, it seems like. Willie, where are you? I'm on Long Island. Oh, you're back there. What are you doing back there? Our little R&R? I just made a little quick scoot out here for a night.

What, did you like forget a pair of shoes you really liked out there? No, Jason. No, but I mean, seriously, isn't it a hassle trying to figure out what you're going to keep in your second home's closet versus what's back in Los Angeles? Is it mostly winter wear out there on the island? It's a lot of winter wear. And it's chilly out here right now, so it's been really... I love that. It's beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

No, I came out of here with my little guy yesterday. And just to kind of stick around, we were walking around, went into town, went to the bookstore. Well, that's nice. Yeah, it cranked up the pool, even though it's cold out, which is real fun. Yeah. Yeah, and just super nice. Does he swim yet? Yeah. He does.

Yes, he's in the process of learning. He sinks slowly now, slower. Yeah, he's five. So he's not, but he's come a long way. Like he's, you know, he does that thing where like he can swim underwater. You know, so whatever they can't do in terms of strokes, they just can do it underwater. Hey, Dad, that means he can't swim. Swimming is trying to keep yourself buoyant and above, you know.

I know. I can't really swim either. Is that true? Yeah, I was petrified. Are you a weak swimmer? Yeah, I can't. I don't know how to do it. I run out of breath in like 10 seconds. No, truly. Yeah, I can't. I don't have the lung support to swim.

That's not true. Well, you don't need lung support to swim. Again, if you swim, you don't need to hold your breath if you can actually swim. Yeah, but the actual aerobic kind of movements that make your heart pump faster than you have to breathe faster. I just...

fail really quickly at it. Okay. Do you know what I mean? I mean, hang on. Yeah, go ahead. Please, do do this one, Will. I just want to take this one apart a little bit. I can't be the only person. That can't swim? No, you're not. But do you... You get too tired to keep yourself from drowning. That's what it is.

Well, is that because you're panicking and so you're catching your shorter breath? No, I think maybe I just do too much too quickly. I don't know how to swim, so I paddle really fast. Then I use up all my energy really quickly. Is it an immediate panic? Yeah, I do. I wish people could see the motions that Shani's doing. Shani, did you ever take swim lessons?

Clearly not. He's moving both hands at the same time, listener, instead of, you know, most of us rotate, right hand, left hand, right arm, left arm. But Sean, you exercise and you don't run out of breath. I know, I don't understand. What about walking up a bunch of steps? If you walk up too many stairs, you don't just collapse and roll down the stairs, right? No, no.

No, I don't. I don't know what it is about the swimming or the pool. Just go slower up the stairs so that you can make it. Are you swimming? Like, have you got a... Like, I don't float. Right. Well, that's surprising. Do you, I mean, have you got like a corn dog in your hand? What's going on? By the way, I love a corn dog. It should be noted. In the pool.

I fucking love a corn dog. I do too, and I feel like they've kind of gone by the way of bungee jumping and things like that. I wouldn't know if I put them in the same category as bungee jumping. I want to know where all the stretch limousines and the corn dogs have gone. But you get a corn dog, and you dip it in some just yellow French's mustard. Yes, that's the best ever. Dude, forget it. I know. What about some of the little cheese dip?

Oh, yeah. Throw it in a little tub of cheese. Yeah, I'll do that. A hot dog on a stick was a big spot out here with the funny multicolored hats. Where was that? No, never heard of it. Yeah, we had a bunch of those like in the valley. There was some out at the beach. Sean, I'm surprised you're not a hot dog on a stick guy.

I don't, I'm, who says I'm not? I try it. I'll try it. No, no, no. But I mean, that was like, that was a famous, that was a great spot. What about it? What about it? I had this discussion with somebody. What about a pig in a blanket? Yeah. I do enjoy those. Yeah. And a puff pastry. Speaking of which, I have not seen Scotty in a long time. Yeah, he's just around the corner.

He's all tidied up on the couch. Oh, sorry. No, that's a bear and a comforter. Sorry. I've confused the two. Cub and a comforter. Oh, my God. It's a cub-forter.

Scotty's going to kick my ass when he sees me next. That's really funny. Well, listen, that's a great cue for our guest. What if he just panned over and he's on the couch? Just in like a Snuggie. Yeah. What if he just walked up to Scotty just sort of squirting French's mustard on him? And taking big bites or licks. Here goes. Here goes. Guys, we got a real live one today, all right? This guest is a man with talent, looks, smarts. He's got many nominations, plenty of wins, box office sock.

Critical respect. He's got massive dramatic range. Razor sharp comedic skills and a British accent. That's the Triple Crown. But most importantly, he's got a wife. He's got three sons and one of the best names in the Screen Actors Guild directory. Friends, say hello to Benedict Cumberbatch. No kidding. Come on out. I was going to guess it. He's got two middle names, too.

Two middle names. What are they? What are they? As if it wasn't enough. Benedict Timothy Carlton. Timothy Carlton. It gets better. I use them on off days. No, that's dad's name. It's a thing of just trying to squeeze the whole family into one small child. Benedict Timothy Carlton. Carlton. Carlton Cumberbatch. Yeah. Fabulous. How are you? So nice to meet you. I'm good. I mean, I've got a rictus grin on my face. I can hardly speak. Not only because of that absurdly nice introduction, but...

It's a real privilege to listen to the top of the show as your surprise guest. Just a bunch of trash. And I was panicking, oh Christ, if I laugh, will they hear me laugh? Would you completely mute me at the beginning? Well, if Bennett and Rob were on the stick... They'd have your mic down before we introduce you. And instead, we're hearing you dropping shit.

Bennett? Rob? God damn it. No, there was a sound like my body dropping with shock at being your surprise guest. And I am in my house with my wife and aforementioned three kids. So that was probably the wind catching a door, let's hope. It's not a temper tantrum. How old are the boys? Or an intruder. They are. Yeah, guys, I've got to go. Don't get murdered on the show. No, that'd be great, great ratings. That would be a first.

Ratings. The boys are how old? 6, 8, and 10. 6, 8, and 10. Well planned. Yeah. Jesus. Was that on purpose? Kind of. Let's do two years apart? Kind of, yes. We did want to get on with it, yeah. And Sophie's a trooper. She's amazing. Good thinking. I didn't, for some reason, you know, because people know I'm super bright. I missed it. I wanted three.

And I just didn't plan it well. And there's a five-year gap between the two. And then we just got to, we just aged out. Couldn't have a third, you know? Oh, great story. Hey, um. What's up? By the way, or you can do what I did. Just have the gap anyway. And just, you know. Oh, and just reload. Yeah. Sorry, hang on. There's a better way to say that. There's a better way to say that. So to speak. Guys, still rolling. Unload.

Let's reset. What? Oh, Jesus. Benedict, is that something, the three kids, is it something that, is it like, did you guys agree to a number or was it just like, well, we're living life and this is what happened? Sophie comes from three. No, I'm an only child, so I panicked when our second was on the way. What do you do? Do you divide yourself? How do you love as much both things without necessarily having more time to do that? you know there are the odd moments when you're on a kind of solo

date with them, with one of them, and you kind of go, am I really cheating you out of a lot of this? But then you see them, when they're not trying to kill each other, getting on as friends and think, no, I've given you the gift of a lifetime that will outlast me. You have two people in your life that will always be there. whether you want it or not at times. But, you know, it's amazing. So I swung around to the idea pretty quickly, and I love it. I love it.

tribe of cubs running. Yeah, you sort of like, you started to go there a bit on like, I thought about that. When I had my second kid, I was like, well, wait, am I going to be able to love this one as much as I loved the first one? And you're like... Are you an only child? No, I have a sister. He just acts like one. Yeah. What do you say to him?

But no, like when we had Maple, we already had Franny, and then five years later we had Maple, and I was so crazy about Franny, and then here comes Maple, right? A stranger comes in the house, brand new baby, and you're just like, well, I can't wait to get to know you. you, I hope I love you as much as the first one. It's a tall order.

She'll be talking about it in therapy. I think a lot of parents probably go through that, right? Whether you're aware of it or not. I think it's a very natural reaction because the first time you have a child, it is, oh, your entire... All of it changes. The orbit of the world, the way you see your parents, your place in that whole thing is just utterly realized at a very real moment.

And that is it, is what I'm trying to say. You think, oh, this is it. This is what life's about. And then you go, oh, no, but it's until the next one. It has to be the same. And it is. But it's weird. It's the same as women forgetting most of the time. But, you know, physiologically...

forget, apparently, the birth pain about what women go through. Yeah, I can imagine. Otherwise, why would your human body even want to be able to be impregnated? It's just the whole thing. Or wear heels. It focuses on this. It heals. Sure. Go ahead, Will. No, I'm not expanding on that. You don't want to touch that one? No, I don't want to touch any of it. But it is funny. And what's amazing, too, is... How different, and God, I'm like the...

quadrillionth person to bring this up, but I also have three boys, Benedict, and how entirely different they are from each other. Absolutely. Even my boys who are less than two years apart are so vastly different personalities. personality-wise. And had virtually the same experience growing up. And I've said this before. What's your take on this, Benedict? How much do you think is nature? How much do you think is nurture? Because these three boys of yours...

It's all nature, right? I mean, you can nurture, I think. Here we go, answering the question for the guest again, which I'd love to do. I think it's like 5% or 10% you can move your kid. good or bad. Otherwise, you just, you get what you get. If they're going to be fantastic, they're fantastic. If they're going to be a challenge, they're going to be a challenge. You can have the best parents in the world and it's just, you get what you should get. What do you think?

Well, I don't know. I think you're right about... they arrive with something that's beyond our understanding, really. There is this thing which, if you're really open to it, especially those first sort of five, seven years... And you present the world as a thing that's open and full of wonder and a safe place and full of magic. As we very much know, sometimes in reality it isn't. But if you give them that space just to be themselves, you do see these extraordinary creatures.

become something of their own accord but i think it does need a lot of nurture and love however you know you're right within that they do things which are certainly to do with nature because how can a child give you love in a time of need as an adult which I've experienced in my family and partly to do with the film we're going to talk about at some point, but it feels like they are capable, in the words of Max Porter in the novel, of giving something back that isn't...

It's not asked for. It's not caused by anything other than them having an empathy or a link or an understanding of what love is. Yeah, that human instinct that you're innately born with. And yeah, and I think without getting too wishy-washy about it, if I haven't already. That is nature. That is something that's sent from somewhere else. You start crying in the first 15 minutes, we're going to have a problem.

Jason, real quick, empathy is... Yeah, spell it. No, I think it's, yeah, it's a mind blower. It is a mind blower. I'd have 12 kids if I could. Yeah, I think...

They are here to teach us, really. So like you say, I think it is, I don't know about percentiles, but it's mostly nature. They are innately, innately, not inertly, and very much actively wonderful gifts. Let's go back there with you, Benedict. Yeah, let's go back there. Your childhood. So you say you were an only child and you were born to two actors. Yes, mom and dad. Mom and dad, Wanda Vantham and Timothy Colton.

That's amazing. Right? It's so common on our show, too, when we have somebody as prolific as you that it seems like they always come from an artist's... Family. Yeah, but rarely two actors though, right? Usually they're sculptors or poets or something like that. But so then I'm sure the answer would be no to the question of was there pressure to become an actor? It was probably just something that you were just naturally interested in because you saw your two first heroes doing that.

A little. And also, I was, if anything, pressured the other way. Like, don't do what we're doing. It's a stupid way to spend a life. Look how peripatetic and useless we are at other things and how family life is a chaotic jumble of loose ends. commitments that have to be abandoned at the last minute because dad's got an advert audition. I mean, it was just, you know, they did really, really well in their careers. Mom, especially commercially, dad...

brilliantly as well in the theatre. He did a lot of the roll court in the early days of kitchen sink drama there. But the point is, you know, they wanted me to have the opportunities that they didn't, or that they didn't have in their life as my parents. And they afforded me an education where I...

could have gone on to be a lawyer or something of that. That was the only other thing I flirted with, which is why I say that I did for a while. Sean flirted with the lawyer in the parking lot last night. to court for it. But what do you mean? They wanted, but Benedict, they wanted you to have access to opportunity to something more predictable in your life, career-wise? I think it's something most...

Stable, definitely. Yeah. But the bug had bit, really. And it was very much to do with watching them in their prime doing what they did. And I remember my dad in... uh cast of noises off this amazing michael frame play that's about it's a farce within a fuss it's just amazingly kaleidoscopic, brilliant examination of a British tradition of comedy, which obviously you guys know, called farce. My mum was doing the real thing, and even the real farces that were very double entendre heavy, very...

misogynistic and homophobic at times as well to the point i said mom you really can't do another play where you walk into a room where your husband is having his pants pulled down by his male pa and it looks like fellatio whereas in fact he's just trying to give him a quick change

I can't be your son and call myself proud if you keep doing this. But I do remember perversely to that embarrassment sort of sitting in the wings and watching her go through and just be mum and sort of chatting to me and saying hello to the...

SM and then just kind of opening the door and this light and heat and noise of what was happening in front of those flats hitting her and her just transforming just in the blink of an eye and I thought what is that what just happened to my mum where did she go And yeah, I kind of got a taste for that. And as an only child, I think you're kind of already locked in a bit to quite a solitary, imaginary... When was it that you understood what they were kind of talking about when it comes to the...

the career that you can't really count on? Like how young were you? And do you remember that moment of going, yeah, but I get it's unpredictable, but I still want to go for it and try it. Numerous occasions. I'm too old to really remember. It's still today. It's still today, exactly. Right, for all of us. I think a bit, yeah.

Am I really doing this? There were moments when I thought, okay, sage advice from ones who know, but I'm going to do it differently. I think I've got a different... way into this yeah and i don't know that it will be different and in fact really all i wanted was what they have which is a career and respect from their peers and and having a good time doing a job they love you know that that's what a great way to live your life

Yeah, you were chasing the right thing. My way of doing it differently was perhaps going, okay, well, the things that you've done, I don't know, but I knew I was throwing... I knew I was throwing it to the wind and I knew I was chancing it. But I think the moment I thought, I can't really not do this is when I got serious about A-levels before going to college.

A university in England, obviously. And yeah, I met a lot of lawyers who were saying, look, turn back now. People who were doing bar exams or people who had made it into being part of a chambers or even people practicing going, it's just, it's really...

pretty hard it's an oversubscribed profession it's very being a lawyer yeah you're only as good as your last case i thought that sounds very familiar yeah why am i doing this which would have required an inordinate amount of work on my part i'm not that smart at all and i i would have had to work so hard For what? For as big a risk. But at least the credentials, the...

The stuff you come out of college with, you are somewhat guaranteed a base salary and some future to it. Whereas with anything in the arts, you don't have that. if one or two or three of your boys said, hey, I want to go into acting, would you, what would you, as a father, would you recommend that they dedicate?

the requisite number of years needed to kind of build a base? Or would you say, ah, put that time into something that is a bit more predictable. Where there's a guarantee. Something you can count on, yeah. As a parent, of course. Because you worry about what the world will be, let alone what their talent will be or won't be recognized as.

where their ambitions and dreams are and their expectations and what the reality is and the gap between that. You never know that you're going to get to where you are. I tell my kids all the time, roll the dice. I'm always like, just roll the dice. Just fucking... I did it. I did it. So how can I turn them away from something that I ended up doing? Actually, you know what's funny? You know what's funny, though? I will say the difference now is one of my sons, I think, is going to...

likely pursue something in the arts. Oh, great. Yeah, and he's sort of leaning that way, and the other one is not. He was talking about some areas, and here's the thing that they're talking about amongst their friends. It's my eldest son. He's a junior in high school here, so he's 17. He says, I said, they have to talk about what...

What are the jobs out there going forward that are going to be affected by AI? And so kids are thinking about like, you know, they don't want to become computer programmers or they're not going to become, you know, things like graphic design. Well, by the way, go down. Lawyers as well, legal work, all that stuff is going to be handled by AI. So now you're not competing against other kids. You're competing against the computers of the world. Right, right, right.

I know. I don't envy them right now. We're avoiding the fact that AI is massively in our industry as well. Of course it is. What's safe? All right. It's evening here. Can you see? I can't. It just got really dark there. Yeah. It got really, really dark. It's very moody. That's very nice. It's beautiful. Oh, nice. Now we can see you. Is that better? Oh, Benedict. Got it. Oh, it's Benedict. Oh, it's Benedict cover batch. All right, so...

Like sweet Willie Arnett, you did some time in boarding school. Was that a positive experience or was it challenging? Because I get homesick real easy. That would be tough for me. How long have we got? Just the perfect mixture of both, I'd say. The first one was amazing. I mean, I'm an only child, as I keep saying it, I had... a band of brothers for the first time in my life so that was easy street to 13 and then the whole adolescence thing and it was a single sex one

And it was at the sort of top of a hill looking down over the London basin and yet so, oh, so very far away from it. And I just thought, this isn't quite right. This isn't real. The demographic was very narrow. No girls. The school itself was extraordinary, some amazing teachers and fantastic experiences. But at that point, I was like, okay, the boarding thing, I think I'm done with. Not because I was homesick, but because I just, I guess I wanted to be part of a broader community. Sure.

But that's a healthy thing. That's also a very healthy thing to be straining away. That was me leaving the nest. I was already a home leaver, I guess, at the age of eight. I boarded when I was eight. We'll be right back. Home to The Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, The Briefing with Jen Psaki, and more voices you trust, MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world.

Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress, and the truth you've relied on for decades. They'll continue to cover the day's news and explain how it impacts you. Same mission, new name. MS Now. Learn more at MS.now This is an ad by BetterHelp.

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off your first purchase. Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at viore.com slash smartless. That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash smartless. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. And now, back to the show. Wait, so Benedict, you were eight when you went away, yeah? Yeah. Yeah.

How old were you? I was 12, but my roommate had come from, when I was 12, I was in seventh grade. My roommate had just come from boarding school in England, and he'd been there since he was seven. Yeah. I bet you it's easier when you go younger, right, Will, than when you're older, because you've created those relationships once you were way younger. Yes, I mean, I'll sort of...

Jump on what Benedict said, which is you do create... Now, I have siblings. I have two older sisters and a younger brother. Quick, what are their names? Fuck. fucking Gary. What's else? Target, Tesco, and... Tannis. Tannis and Shanley are my sisters, and my brother's name is Chuck, a.k.a. Charles. So anyway, but I went when I was 12, and you do have, and I'm still friends with some of those guys that I went to school with, because it's...

those formative years. And I also was just an all-boys. When I went, it was all-boys. It's now co-ed. But it is, you know, when I look back on it now, and I don't know how you feel about it, Benedict, but the idea of my boy is going away. There's no fucking way. I know, I'd be tough. No, not unless they really want to, but no way, no way, no way. And selfishly, I want them around. I want to be...

Yeah, even summer camp. Whatever, whatever, Dad, however pushed away I am, I still want to be there in case the cool comes, the fall happens, the need. Yeah, so can I ask a question to the group here? Yeah. Because I don't have kids. I guess so. I mean... Just one. Let me look at the clock real quick. If you make it quick, yes. Yeah, Benedict, get comfortable. This is going to be a long question. Oh, shit. Benedict took his jacket off when you asked a question. It's all in here.

No, is what is the, because I don't know about boarding school. Why would a parent send their kid to boarding school? Better education, focus. Okay. Yes? Question? Amazing facilities. Very immersive educational experience where you have, well, the beginning of it only, where you have a very structured timetable. So there's sort of purpose to your day. It's very fulfilling.

God, I sound like a brochure. Yeah, because it always sounds like a jail or something. No, no, no. They're very plush places. It's like Hogwarts. It's like incredible. Yeah. That is exactly how it was described once by Martin Freeman. He said, I went to a North school and Benedict went to Hogwarts, which I kind of did.

It wasn't wizard school, but it was a particularly old one. It is, but it is true. And, you know, think about all those things. You learn how to, you know, by the time I got to college, I dropped out quickly from college. And part of it was because everybody, my peers... who did not go to boarding school. It was their first time away from home. And I'd been away from home so much earlier that getting out, I was ready to get out of the world. I was like, fuck all that. I'm ready to go.

I've been looking after... And I was having a frat party and like, isn't it cool to put... And you're like, no, I've already done this. True. True, true, true. And I think... I don't know. I'm here and I've come out of it okay and I wouldn't really change it. I wouldn't know what I'd change it to. I didn't have any other experience. Like Jason, who taught you how to tie a tie?

Oh, that would have been the set dresser, the on-set costumer for Arrested Development. Is that true? Yeah, really. But I did really nail it down on that because I had to tie a tie every... fricking day. And then loosen it. And then listen. And then roll up the sleeves. Roll up the sleeves. Because Michael Bluth, can I just say something just as an aside? Michael Bluth, this guy got down. Well, he got down to business. He was rolling up those sleeves. If you go back.

you watch Jason push his sleeves up until to this day well you've given me a full complex about that because that's just that's just Jason that's not Michael Bluth it's just I always roll up my sleeves on a button down shirt and I still do it to this day and I I hear your stupid fucking GMC voice every morning when I roll up my sleeves. Getting down to business. Stupid fuck.

How long have you two known each other? Was that when you two first met on Arrested Development? I think so. Too long. Yeah. And now we're stuck on this podcast. So now you must have loved... You guys, it's such a blast being out. I have to say, I'm a huge, huge fan of this show and it's just... It's one of these things one of my best friends put me on to and said, have you got to hear the, I mean, I love all of your work individually, but the...

Yeah, it's a very good thing you've got going here. It's fantastic. Now listen, back to you. You must have enjoyed the education at the boarding school enough. You've become a teacher. yourself and you teach English in a Tibetan community. What? Untrue. Just outside of Djarling, India. Yeah. Yes? I like that. especially the pronunciation of dejarling. How do you say it? How do you say it?

We should all now say it, Dajarling. What is it? How do you say it? Did you go to Dajarling, darling? No, Darjeeling, I think. Darjeeling, that's it. Darjeeling. Did you go to Dajarling? No, I didn't have the time. It's great. has this habit of doing. He says, oh, I think I'm going to go to Mark's and Spencer's and buy a Mars bar. You're a trained actor. What did I do? Every summer in Ibiza, I like to DJ.

For like a week or two, I'll go down there to DJ. Wow. DJ. DJ. Sorry, yes. So it is true. Wait, so you're taught. You taught English in a Tibetan community? Yeah, I mean, teachers are very loose term. I kind of turned up and they giggled at me, which was a fair enough cultural exchange. Well, no, it was very unfair. I learned so much, as you can imagine. I was a... 19-year-old kid who knew nothing, who'd come from a very kind of enclosed private school, boarding school education.

And it was the first talk at the school that we had given to us. This isn't the kind of school I went to. We got given talks about what you could do with your year out if you wanted to take one between school and university school. college yeah a little gap year a little gap year exactly and it was the first one i heard about and i just went i didn't really listen to it being about teaching it was all about

Being close to Tibetan culture, I just had this very strong gravitational pull in my soul. I thought, I have to do this. There's nothing. And people go, well, don't you want to volunteer in Africa? Don't you want to climb a mountain? All these amazing opportunities. And I just was deaf to all of them because of how strongly I felt I needed to do this. What was the pull to the Tibetan culture? When did that start? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe in a previous lifetime. I really don't know.

I mean, I was fascinated by it visually and I knew a bit about Buddhism, but it was just so overwhelming. And as was the experience I had, there was six months of, well, five months of teaching and then some... tourism tied to the end. Wandering about, yeah. Wandering about India, yeah, and Nepal, which was...

both of which were extraordinary. Any poll from Everest at all? Was that part of the poll at all? Because I've got this fascination with Everest. But was that part of it at all? Should we do it? I'll do it. Yeah, I want to get at least a base camp in my lifetime. Right? Wouldn't I? but then you hear about how much pollution there is, how much...

tourism and craziness there is, and I kind of go, well, maybe there's a better mountain to walk. Ben, watch how quickly we can turn Jason off Everest. Do you know how dirty it is, Jason? Wait, what? Yeah, and the tents, the tents are really dirty. I just shower every night. No, they don't have showers. They don't change the linens? No, they don't change the linens. You can't use sanitizer. That would be scary.

But, all right, so that was... The landscape did have a pull, in all seriousness. Of course it did. It's such an extraordinary bit of geography, that whole area. And this is in the foothills, so going towards Darjeeling, and it's a little hill station town called... and it was a converted nepali house and at the top was this monastery this prayer room below was the monks accommodation the eating area and then a small teaching area and i might have got the height

all the numbers of levels wrong but i was basically very much on the bottom and it was really we were high up in what 4 000 meters something like that and you open the window and it was sort of coming into autumn and winter there. So the clouds would literally roll in like dry ice through the window. It was absolutely extraordinary. And pretty basic, my dad reminded me, his panic, this was pre-cell phones, I'm that old, and the internet as well, I'm that old. And it was...

A moment where I'd written in tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny scrawl on a blue airmail letter home one weekend. Don't worry, Dad. All the cold is solved now in my room as I have a gas heater and I've managed to block all the vents. And he was reading it going, oh my God, he's going to die of carbon monoxide poisoning. Yeah.

I didn't, but, you know, I might explain a few brain cells less that I have now, but it was very basic, but very romantic, very hard, very lonely, very elating, very inspiring, and... spiritually mind-blowing and utterly mundane. How do you clean yourself? How do I see myself? Sorry, Benedict. We're talking about his son. How many days are you out there? Sean's talking to somebody off camera. He's setting up the weekend.

He's talking to his dog licking his balls. How do you do that? We all want to know, Sean. We all want to know. I'll show you. That's my teaching class. That's my teaching class. He's talking to somebody off camera. Show me after. When I'm done, I'm doing the podcast and show me. Sean, your mic's still hot. I can't wait to see. Show you, show me after. No, I'm recording a podcast right now. I'm doing it now, but you start. Start now. They can't see. Start. Okay. Wait, I want to know.

Right, okay, back to business. What the fuck? What was your question about? How do I clean myself? Yeah. Even the real. In general. But a monastery in a Napoli house. No, when you're out there in a tent for what? Days, weeks? What do you do? No, no, no. I was in a house. I was in a house. Oh, next question. He's filling in for someone this week. I thought you were in a tent. Is it a zipper or buttons? Is it a zipper or buttons?

Show me his... Do you need a loofah back there? Scotty, get the loofah! All right, so let's move to... Now, so we're back from Dejarling.

And we're going to make a DJ. We're back from DJing. And we're going to make a career of this acting thing. and we're going to go for the acting, and we get a little bit of momentum going, and we're on our first film set. Which is? That's a fucking long way into the story, but maybe the only bit's boring. To Kill a King. Is that a first feature film role? I don't remember. Maybe that was my first. Do you remember being on a set for the first time?

How did that jibe with what you had? You'd gone through all this great theater education, acting education, and then you're on a set and you see all the equipment and you're just doing little bits at a time as opposed to... to theater like how did that strike you this film process I just remember I remember small snippets of

Drew Gray Scott being very lovely and serious and smoky voiced. I remember Julian Ryan Tutt being very sort of funny and witty and just being incredibly on it. And me laughing quite a lot. I don't remember... anything that I did in front of camera. I didn't come away going, oh, why? Yeah, okay, camera work. Interesting. Not because it was a bad experience. I'm being genuine about my lack of memory of that particular experience. You don't remember being scolded for looking at the camera?

Did I? Maybe I have. Maybe you've spoken to the director. No, no, no. That would be my fault. Well, no, so, I mean, I guess, well, two things. I suppose mum and dad helped in that regard a little bit, not because they rehearsed me or anything like that, nothing stage mummy, but just, I guess I was a little bit aware of what you do and don't do on a set, having been on a couple where they were doing their thing. But also...

Funnily enough, my first ever film job, TV job, was in Heartbeat, which is an ITV staple, or was, I don't know if that's in England. A very nostalgic police drama set on the Yorkshire Dales. And was it the Moors? Sorry, Yorkshire. God, Olivia did this when she was talking to you about Devon and Dorset. It's Devon, by the way. That's what we've done. See, I do listen to your show.

I just remember being very nervous on Heartbeat set. I do remember that very, very well. And just wondering, am I any good? I don't know what I'm doing. And I know there's something capturing everything I'm doing. I'm like an audience which has this kind of multi-camera perspective. And you can't watch yourself back, but you can. And I really wanted to, but I didn't. But I kind of wanted to know...

What the fuck am I doing? Am I doing too much? Too little? Because you didn't get any feedback because you were used to from like an audience, you know, from doing theater. Was that it? No? No, none, because it's just a very, you know, well-oiled machine, a crew that's been doing it for literally decades. And yeah, it was just very kind of...

Oh, well, I hope that's all right. I hope I get to work again, you know. And it was the first job I got. I was still at drama school, so I had to ask permission. I was only at Lambda for one year, but I had to ask permission to do the job. You're not supposed to work if you're still out of drama school. Yeah. I don't know if that's changed. I hope it has in many ways. Now, you mentioned not being able to see yourself back. I ask actors this. Do you watch yourself act? And if so, have you...

Have you treated yourself to looking at your older work and do you see a big difference between how you used to act versus today and is that a... is that uh do you do you applaud yourself for having gotten better different how so smaller bigger Do you do that? Do you watch yourself? No, I'm not my own sort of crazy fan. And I don't mean that in a sort of it's only vanity that does that. That could be an incredibly useful thing to do, but I'm not quite that. For me it is, yeah.

I'm not a precision tool in that way. No, I'm not going to compare myself to what I have done. It's always about where I'm at at the moment. The need to see some reflection of what is going on. Is it registering? And also to have that conversation with the director going, and I think... I think I know what you wanted, and I was trying to do something else. Can we go again so I can try and give you something nearer what you want? I've seen now that that doesn't quite fit it.

For the character and the movement and whatever it is, I mean, it's a really hard thing to generalize about. I guess I've been stretched like gum in all sorts of directions as an actor, so I can't really be specific. Certain things... like i think power the dog i never i don't think i ever watched a play back on that because i just i knew i was in and either it was or it was happening and

I just had to just be that guy anyway. So kind of going around as Phil Burbank going, can I see the playback, you know, being an arsehole about it. I didn't really want to have that interaction with crew. and I wanted to have the arrogance of the character. You strike me as somebody who's...

Who's skilled enough, talented enough, in touch with yourself enough to really be able to direct yourself to a certain extent and know whether it's good or bad. How much do you defer to a director? You mentioned, you know, well, I know what you want is... Let me do another one to see if I can do what you want. Will you shape a performance for a director? Will you do what a director wants you to do?

What is your opinion on that? Whose character is it? I think I've been very, very lucky with the caliber of director. Well, thank you for what you just said, first of all. But I also think...

It is about how lucky I've been with the color of a director. I form trust with that person and so therefore can filter my own inner sense of whether I was shit or good, bad or indifferent and match it to their... uh honesty about it um the best directors as well often give you a prompt that turns everything around 180 degrees and it's not that they've rejected what you've done or didn't like it they just want to see something different that's what that's what excites me is just trying to

jump through a different hoop in a way. Do you remember the first time as you were coming up and, you know, after you kind of got your sea legs about you and acting your first gigs, do you remember the first time when you... took a real big swing and you're like, oh God, this is something I never imagined I could do and it scares the shit out of me. I think a little bit on every job. To one degree or another. That's a really good question, Sean.

You do take great swings and you never clank it. You always hit the ball hard. It's really admirable. You always feel like you're in great hands as an audience member when you're watching. Thank you. Truly. That's a huge compliment coming from you guys. Thank you. No, it's, whether it's drama or comedy, it's pretty impressive. Thank you. Well, I guess the...

The bottom line is there's no sort of secret sauce to it. I feel... Yeah, I feel excited when I'm taking a big swing. When did I first feel that sense of, oh, I'm not sure I can do this. Oh, well, I know. Sorry. No, go. Well... I was just going to say, it was one of those reactions where I've got the job, and then I thought, oh my God, how am I going to do that? And that was playing Stephen Hawking in a television drama about his life, which sort of, compared to Eddie's, took it up to...

He was walking with a stick and the speech was very impaired. Still married to Jane Hawking. So it was one slice of his life, his extraordinary life. Yeah, the thrill, the elation of that, and then going, oh my God, I've just convinced people that I can do this. I don't think I can. I was immediately terrified after the 10 seconds of elation. So I guess that was the first moment I thought, well, this is kind of a big swing.

Yeah. But what was that first moment where you... So I totally get that and relate to that. But then the moment where you... I think Sean's question was more about... You were talking about choices. Yeah, he was talking about choices, but when do you feel comfortable? When was that first time you felt... Forget Sean's question. When was that first time that you felt comfortable in a performance? Because you know there's that thing when you're a young actor and you go in and you're just...

sometimes you're like, I don't want to fuck up, or you're just kind of, you're nervous, and blah, blah, blah. And then, what's that first moment where you felt like, rather than going, oh hell. Yeah, you hit a groove, you felt tight, you got it, you know, do you remember that job? No, I think that was what Sean was saying. Oh, I'm back in. You're back in? No, I do think that's what you meant. I think, I don't know, it's so hard to be specific about this sort of thing.

Fuck, I don't know. I'm always saying to acting students that I feel you can have something very theatrical in a close-up as much as you can have something very myopically focused and close-up on the stage. I think... the magnification of her performance is really to do if something is too big it means often it's wrong it doesn't mean that the scale of it is what am i trying to say

I don't know. Some big choices I made where I thought, I'm just doing this and I think it's right. I mean, Patrick Melrose would probably be one because... I've partied, but that guy was other level. And I think the choices I made with him were pretty committed. And I, you know, because I was in a very sober state doing this. crazy different levels of inebriated dance work. I kind of just...

I just really committed to it. And it's those things where you go, I don't even remember thinking this could be silly. I actually remember thinking, well, that's quite fun. Maybe I should try Quaaludes.

No, I'm joking. I just had a commitment to it that meant it felt like I was on the ride, but also thinking, I hope this is actually... works i think we have that a lot don't we when we're having a good time doing something as well going okay this this feels great and everyone here is enjoying it and we're all it's but is anyone going to watch it or think the same or you're right yeah people people that aren't obligated to say hey

You're fully reliant on a biased audience, and it's a little bit scary. And I think to your point about directors, you can come out of an experience and go, I really do need to trust my voice and my instincts a little bit more sometimes. because I think I could have got that better. I have had moments watching things soon after their completion and gone, ah. Yeah, I should have dug my heels about that. It's not the best take or the best choice. Well, but you were not foolish to...

Count on the taste of people like Sam Mendes or Thomas Alfredson. Like I said, some amazing directors. Yeah. We'll be right back. Whether you're hosting the big dinner or don't want to show up empty-handed, make Whole Foods Market your holiday headquarters. Get everything you need from delectable food to host gifts they'll love. Serve show-stopping centerpiece mains like bone-in spiral cut ham and their bone-in rib roast, succulent and special.

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Was that nerve wracking? I mean, you were obviously very, very well established by the time you did that film. But still, you can't shake the little guy who was at Lambda. You know, like you're sitting there with these titans. Was that frightening?

Yeah. I mean, yeah. The first time I met, I mean, Mark, I'd done a little thing with Mark Strong, so I knew him. Colin was just... absurdly wonderful and lovely and nice and goofy and impressionable as well as being ridiculously smart and talented and devilishly handsome and all the rest of the years and then Gary, when I first met Gary, he walked around the corner of, it was either working titles office or it was somewhere uninspiring.

And it wasn't where I was expecting to meet him. And I'd gone in for a costume fitting and there he was. And he just stopped in the corridor and he looked at me, looked me up and down and went, Oh, hello. Oh, hello. Hi. I was just sort of a mess in front of him. Yeah. He was very, very cool. He was very cool. Yeah. And I thought, oh, fucking hell. I felt this horrible...

ill comfort of like, I've got to please this guy, I've got to somehow impress him and make sure he thinks, you know, he literally felt like he was sizing me up, going, is this really the guy I want to spend my time with is Peter Quillam? I'm not sure, really. You know, there was that very kind of like, oh, good impression. It took a little while, and then I realized he was the one who was terrified. He was terrified. Really? I mean, I think I can say this.

Maybe his lawyers will write to me afterwards, I don't know. But, you know, he was frightened. He really thought he wasn't capable of doing it. He couldn't push this iconic Alec Guinness performance away. He was worried that he hadn't found him. And, you know... It became the most amazing friendship out of that. But, you know, yeah, that man was frightening. And to have that vulnerability as an actor and to see that in someone as capable and extraordinary as him.

I was like, hooray, okay. We're all the same, really. We're all the fucking same. Yeah, but I mean, people feel that way about you. I think your body of work, it's unmatched. I mean, Star Trek, Imitation Game. I can name them because I've seen them and I love them. And Doctor Strange and August Osage County and the fucking Smaug.

And I mean, you're fucking Smaug and The Hobbit. I mean, that's crazy to me, to me, you know. And on and on and on. And recently, you know, The Roses, I thought it was just like, that was a total minefield. You could have blown yourself up. Olivia at any moment in that it was truly impressive so people feel that way about you too I think where oh for sure or you just want to just you know if

You get a job with Benedict Cumberbatch. Well, know that I'm shitting it. Know that I don't know what I'm doing on a first day. Know that I doubt myself. You know, it's that thing, isn't it? And I don't know if you guys have it, but that first day on set where you go... You know, here's the crew they were watching.

They're actors and directors. You think, maybe they'll give me a second day, but these guys are just, they're going, it's Roman right away. And of course it isn't, because the focus puller's shitting it. Everyone is doing their job for the first time as a unit.

putting stuff on film. You have to remember and get over your own... We all have to figure out how to wash ourselves, right, Sean? That's right. But I do want to, just having done a show there in London... In the back, too? Do you do the same for the back?

Show me how you do. Show me how you do. How do you wash your own small of your back? Let me just see that. Do you need an extender for the loofah? Because we've got one, Scotty. Oh, wow. It's a selfie stick. How old are you? You're so nimble. Flexible. No, but in theater in London, they have this thing called, and the Barbican, they have this thing called Cherish Notes.

And I've never heard of this until I went over there. And I'm like, and I had to ask people in the cast, I'm like, what's cherished, cherished notes? Well, we meet every single day, every day before the show on stage. We just check in with each other. I'm like, can't we do that just backstage in the hall where the dressing rooms are? Yeah, or just in the E. That's what I said. Can we just do an email or like a fax or something? And no, you have to go on stage. And every day we would go on stage.

And the stage manager would be like, great, I don't have anything. Does anybody have anything to... I'm like, no, why are we standing here? I like that. I like that. It keeps everybody accountable and reminds you of where you are. Yes, I know, but... Okay.

What do you think about that, Benedict? I think it's quite lovely. I think it's quite nice. I think it's quite nice. As long as you're not spending too much time doing that. As long as there's a moderator. I think the dangerous thing is, especially in theatre, long run. there's gonna be those moments where something's going a bit strange in a scene or someone's you know and then

The lines of communication can get very, very fuzzy unless you go through the appropriate channels, which is obviously the assistant director or the director and say, I'm having a bit of a problem with the scene, I'm not sure it's quite waiting, whatever it is. If you go in there in the Cherish scenario and go...

to another actor you know that bit where you're doing that bit that means i can't do my bit the way i want to do but that that to me is like oh here we go but that's not what cherishing is cherishing sounds much nicer than that but i guess if it becomes Cherishing is just a positive feedback loop, isn't it? That's what that is.

Looking after each other. It was nice to see everybody. But if somebody brings up something, is there enough time? I'm trying to save it now. I mean, everybody in your cast is already, they feel like, fucking, this guy just barely put up with it. No, I loved everybody there. Is there enough time? time to iron out whatever problem somebody might bring?

Well, that's what it was. I wasn't used to it here, like in the States, where it kind of interrupts what you've created for yourself, your rhythm and your routine in the States. And so now it's like, oh, I have to stop that. Go up five flights of stairs or down five flights of stairs. Oh, my God. I know, it's terrible. These monsters, this gets worse. Five flights of stairs? Yeah. I mean, and you can barely, we know that.

You can't swim because you can barely catch your breath. And then at the top of the stairs, you had to say something nice about it? Yeah, I went down the stairs like this. It's just a tub of water. Just get in it. Let me watch you. Is it still hot? Just dip it in. Let me see. Well, I want to talk about... Well, Shawnee, do you want to get into... Shawnee, do you want to talk more about Doctor Strange or Star Trek? Because I'd love to get into 1917 when you're done.

Yeah, no, I mean, look. Are you big into fantasy, Sean? Is that your fantasy? Yeah, I'm a huge sci-fi nerd and fantasy. Will's just dying. Is he into fantasy? Is he into fantasy? You should see what he's wearing for bottoms right now. He's in a full lizard suit from the waist down. Yeah. Yeah. So Sean loves... I love Star Trek and... You love Marvel. Yeah, I like Marvel. Scotty loves Marvel. I like Marvel a lot. But I love...

I loved the Star Trek movies. I wasn't a huge fan of the television series. This guy's a massive Star Trek fan. But seeing you on screen as that character, that iconic character, and... I don't know. You have this thing about you where you don't... You're so fucking commanding. Yeah, you're magnetic. You're magnetic. You don't have to do a lot, and you're just...

You're electric right through the fucking screen. It's incredible. Sean, do you want Scotty to come ask a question? By the way, if Scotty comes on camera and he's covered in French's mustard, I'll be right back. Wait, let me see if he's got... With Spock ears. But also my massive, massive Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan. Like huge. I've seen him a million times in those movies. And to see right when you popped on today as a guest, I'm like, oh my God.

God, that's so, it's such another iconic character, that smog, the dragon, that your voice is synonymous with this legendary thing. And Sean, I will say this, Benedict, before you, I've asked people who've done these kinds of things before. You've done. a bunch of these different films you know sort of franchises if you will but they came out of very well established you know

sort of ideas that have a very well-established fan base. And there's a sense of, do you ever feel a sense of responsibility to those legions of fans who existed before you kind of stepped into these roles? Yeah, huge. Very big.

Then you have to forget about them. You have to. You have to make a commitment to something that can't please everyone. So that's immediately... If you play the aggregate game, you're dead in the water to anything original or alive or daring or... asks questions or is worth actually seeing the 78th or whatever I was version of Sherlock Holmes you have to just go it's going to be alright and that it's

It's not arrogance. It's just you can't have that much head traffic. You just have to focus on doing the job.

So, yeah, it's a take on something. Yeah, I forgot about Sherlock, too. Fantastic. I loved Sherlock. You were so great in Sherlock. I mean, the list goes on and on. This guy, I mean, are you even 35 yet? The resume is stunning. Anyway, we're already over time. I've got one last question, though, because it's something to bring you back down to earth because you're so goddamn good at what you do. What is the one thing you'd love to be half...

as good at as you are as an actor? Is there something that... Surfing. Surfing. Surfing. Oh, wow. Really? Or speaking any foreign language. So you try, but you're not great? Exactly that. I started in my 40s, and I'm near the end of my 40s, and I'm still feeling like I'm starting. And I had a shoulder operation last year, so I haven't done it at all for about, actually no, this year, for about six months. But I love it. I love it. Where did you start it?

Weirdly enough, in New Zealand, when we were doing Power of the Dog, we got shut down because of lockdown, and we had the decision to make to stay, which by then, because I had two octogenarian parents, one of whom is a severe asthmatic, staying with us, as it would happen. my mum and dad, and our three very young children at that point, Sophie and a nanny, and we just thought, okay, we're going to stay.

and it was a bit scary to begin with but utterly magical and extraordinary, one of the best places on earth to be as it turned out. And there was a little left-hand break in Tiawunga in Hawke's Bay. Big shout out to Tiawungans. Anyway, the point is, it was where I learned. And I'm goofy, actually, so left break's not...

not as good as a right, but I quite like... No, that's wrong. It must have been a right break. Yeah, because I'm right foot forward, so you're supposed to be facing the wave rather than facing the shore, so I learnt really on the wrong wave, but loved it. Every now and again you get a left. And I really fell in love with it. I fell in love with the view of the coastline. I fell in love with that connection to the ocean.

sense of how present you are and the community as well this extraordinary group of people where all is kind of forgiven as long as you don't take their wave and the drug dealer would be there and the head of the local police force would be there. All of human life was around you.

I can't explain to anyone who hasn't surfed what that feeling is of nature giving you a ride from somewhere out in the ocean towards the shoreline. It's just magic when it works. And when you get out of the ocean, how do you clean yourself? I'm kidding. What happened to your shoulder, by the way? You got shoulder surgery? I was so boring. I was so 49. Yeah.

50 this year, but it was 49 when it happened. Well, it's a long time of ill use and done a lot of surfing in very bad conditions and overdoing it. I'm probably lifting stuff in the wrong way over the years. Not in particular. But I basically had a torn rotator cuff and then also a frozen shoulder on top of it. Oh, God. Do the repair to the rotator, which was a complete tear. And I'd lived with chronic pain for about a year and a half, not really realizing. that you didn't have to.

And I kept on doing physio and being told, no, it'll heal, you just give it time. I'm a patient guy and I'm doing everything you're telling me to do and I'm still having sleepless nights, getting up like three, four times in the night because I'd rolled over onto it and it's suddenly just... Right, but it's better now?

Yeah, it's great. It's great. Oh, look at that. Look at that. Well, before we let you go, we need to know about… about the thing with feathers because this this so this this is a new project you guys if i hadn't said anything about that film i'm so sorry no it's my it's not how to clean yourself it's very much not the thing is i mean i suppose you could use that to clean it's a prequel to how do you

You clean yourself. Yeah. So this... It's called a duster. I've only seen the trailer, which looks... magical to say the least. What is it called? The thing with feathers. Okay. I'm not going to ask you to describe it because I think that's always frustrating, but it seems like you're dealing with loss, but you're dealing with it in a very...

magical, fantastical way and it looks like the filmmaking is exquisite and your performance looks mind-blowing again. Was it something that you loved doing? Very much. And it's something that I'm very proud of. I produced it as well. Oh, wow. It's one of those projects that wouldn't really have got off the ground. well i would have probably got off the ground but you know it took a lot of efforts and it was 10 years in the making um

We only came on board in the last year and a bit of it. We being the production company, Sonny March, Adam Acklin, Leah Clark and myself. And it was an approach for me to act as this dad, this man who... because you were so kind in telling me it could be a real bore to describe it. I'm going to describe it very, very briefly.

But it's a man who suffers a very sudden bereavement and he loses his wife and has to bring up his two children as a widow and it's about their first year as a family. And it's based on an amazing, amazing novella called...

Grief is the thing with feathers, which is a misquote of the famous Emily Dickinson line, love is the thing with feathers, by Max Porter, who is just a... titan of a heroic human being in actual physical stature and in talent he's a wonderfully kind brilliant mind and he's created a space where male grief is examined in the most unimaginably

crazy and imaginative way it's about dealing with it as an acceptance of something you live with and it comes alive it comes alive in the form of the dad's work which from the book, maybe the film, but certainly the book more or less is hinted at as being a memory of the boys of what that time was like. You kind of learn that as the story unfolds. But it's a crow. It's a crow that comes fully to life as this...

horrific entity that's both Mary Poppins to the children, an amanuensis, a hero, an absolute nightmare, a ferocious noise in the head, a tormentor, and an ally against despair. And it's... It's a huge homage to the literature. It was born out of the poetry of Ted Hughes. He was an academic at the book of Narn Version. He's an illustrator. And his illustration comes to life, basically.

lives, torments and is accepted by this family grieving the loss of their mother and wife. Wow, wow, wow. I can't wait to check it out. That's a punchy hour and 40 minutes. And it's, yeah, I don't know. What I was taken with the trailer is, you know, you all can see, it seems to be done in such a sophisticated cinematic.

tasteful way like you know that you that can go wrong real quick if you go oh so there's going to be a crow that he's got to talk to it's like how does that look and how is it framed what's the you know it's just looks so tasteful and special. So congratulations. Well, thank you. I mean, that's mainly down to Dylan Southern, who adapted the book and directed it. He's a pop documentarian by trade, as in that's what he's done up until this point. This is his first.

fictional narrative drama. And good for you for getting behind him. Well, yeah. I mean, that's one of the things we do at Sonny March. We want to promote and platform voices that are coming out of the stocks who are the first. Very often female-led talent, but also, in this case, someone who hasn't originated their work in this medium. And he's spectacular. He's a real cineast. He's a real cultural nerd. So the references are thick and fast. There's Kubrick, there's Spielberg, there's...

Hitchcock there's all sorts there's a bit of Jane Campion in there weirdly but it is just It's a rich tapestry of imagination and minds coming undone, reflected through a cinematic idea of how that would happen in the culture of these people. So it's the father's imagination. and that North London 40-something maleness, which I know very well. They're set in South London, but big deal, not much difference. And it was a crazy ride to go on, very short.

shoots after 10 years of creating it and getting it made. Benedict, before we let you go, I have to ask you about something that I think that you have been attached to. to either be in or to produce or to do something with for a long time. And it's one of my favorite books of all time. It's an absolute mind blower for those who haven't written, which is, you know what I'm about to say. Rogue male. Rogue male.

Oh, dude. It's a winner, isn't it? It's so cool. It is such a game changer of a novel, Rogue Male, written in 1939. Yeah. It's the original Fugitive novel. It's the original, and you know, a huge inspiration for Ian Fleming for Bond. Oh, wow.

And it's so prescient to what's going on in our times, not to allude to that too much. It's so prescient, exactly. And it really is. You know, when we first sat down trying to talk about this, is this a bit of a game? It's not about AI, but is this a bit of a kind of... guy's film and then the longer we were exploring the themes of it and the motivation behind the guy's actions and the outcome and how he's turned on by his own side as well as obviously the side he's tried to take down

It's fascinating how it plays into a political spectrum of what's going on in the world now. I don't want to say too much about it because people should read the book and yeah, we will make it. You will make it. Definitely. We haven't got a filming date yet, but it's something we're trying to slate for next year. There are other huge commitments involving cloaks floating about. I'll be the first guy to watch it. I'll be the first one there. I can't wait. Me too.

That's good. Well, we owe you 12 minutes now back into your life. I think I owe you a lot more because I was very late on. So you owe me nothing. No, no, no. I'm very glad to be. Such a pleasure, honor to have you on the show.

Enjoy, Benedict. Thank you. Likewise, guys. Really cool to meet you. Really great to meet you all too. Thank you. I hope to bump into you again soon. Yes. One day. Continued success, Benedict. You too. You too. Will, sorry, I've got to say, Will, before we sign off, you were...

phenomenal is this thing on I asked Bradley to give me a link because Searchlight wouldn't oh it's not really ready for a link yet and I went fucking Bradley I missed a screening of it in London I can see it you are so good it's so tender and real and that camera is so i wanted to ask you about how you deal with

it's so close to you all the time when you're up at that mic. Like, was he shooting on a long lens at any point? Or was it really on stage with you getting in your eyeline? I mean, it was, and yet you're utterly in it all the time. And it's so moving. It was all in a 40. The whole thing was shot, everything was shot.

I shot under 40 the entire film on one single lens. And he was, yeah, Bradley was right there, you know, right up next to me. It was very intense. But thank you very much. So impressive. It's brilliant work. Great work. It's brilliant work. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in.

It's really good. All right. Well, you enjoy the rest of your night. Thank you. And thank you again for doing this, pal. Bye-bye. Benedict Cumberbatch. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Will. Thank you, Sean. See you, bud. Take care. Bye-bye. There he goes. Benedict Cumberbatch. I didn't get to so much. That went by very far. How could you? He's got a million credits. I know, right? Yeah, that was really cool. I mean, are you guys a Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan? I've not seen those. I enjoyed it.

Yeah, I love those movies. He was the voice. Motion capture questions I have here, but I didn't get to them. Yeah, but you could tell. He was just a voice of a dragon I hear from your question. That is correct. But also you can tell just from talking to him, this sounds really coiny to say, but you can tell he's such a massive team player. You can tell he's not...

You know, he's a very giving person. He's very loving, down-to-earth. You can smell his teen spirit. Yeah, yeah. Nice. Smells like teen spirit. Oh, I see. Yeah. No, it's pretty cool how he dances between the comedy, the drama, the big... the big Marvel stuff and also like things like this thing coming out. I know. Like intense, like little sort of really cool niche films and then these massive box office hits. He's fancy and also...

Are you with them? You can just jump in with them. The listener. Will's building on the clean yourself. Jump in there with them. And then you guys together. You can clean each other. More easily reach the back. Just do that. Start there. Is it a button or a zipper I asked before? Oh, my God. Hey, Will, was I with you on a plane when we ran into Benedict Cumberbatch?

Oh, really? Was I with you on a plane or was it somebody else? Anyway, I ran into him on a plane once and he was so fucking funny. I didn't run into him on a plane, I don't think, but I ran into him once. I didn't run into, I didn't say hi to him. He was at the Greenwich and he was trying to repack his suitcase in the lobby. Oh, no. And I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to leave him alone.

You know, that's why I hate looking inside somebody's suitcase. You ever notice that? Why? I feel like there's stuff in there I don't need to see, don't want to see, especially not the suitcase on the way to the destination. It's the one coming back. the dirty underwear is up on top and nothing's folded and it's all just like, you just know if you got your face in there, it would be insane. You're so crazy about just regular life. You're so funny.

My biggest luxury, the thing, the one big luxury that I love, that I really love treating myself to is doing hotel laundry. Oh, you just throw it, you give it, you put it in the bag and let them take it. People are like, oh, I'm not going to do a hotel laundry. It's going to be $4 for my socks. I'm like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to treat myself. So you do that laundry before you leave the hotel so that when you get home and you unpack, it's already done?

Yeah, depending. I mean, the last few, there might be a few items, but I'm not going to, like, just deprive myself, you know what I mean? So you don't go home with all your dirty laundry like the rest of us plebs and throw it in the machine? I'll often do. The bulk of my stuff will be. clean, yeah. Yeah. I'm not jackassing a bunch of dirty clothes across the globe. Yeah, why would you? Yeah, when you got all that money to burn, right? Yeah. Like an extra 12 bucks. Oh, is it? For a t-shirt?

But listen, all those... Here he comes. Did I meet Benedict Cumberbatch on an airplane, like a jet plane, or was it a... Viplane! Why would it be a biplane, but we'll allow it. Bye. Smart. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbaco, and Michael Granteri. Smartless. It's getting cold outside, so you know what that means. Tis the season. The season for roast beefing.

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